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[N][M]Noir Mini Mafia - Ch. 5 - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
August 22 2020 23:19 GMT
#1149
Last VC:

Eywa- (2) - Trfel, Dadred
Dadred (2) - Eywa-, Onegu

until the game ends.

I'm adorable.
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
August 23 2020 02:07 GMT
#1175
On August 23 2020 10:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Setup Thoughts:

Show nested quote +
On August 16 2020 09:56 Trfel wrote:
On August 16 2020 09:53 Vivax wrote:
Like, last time you were mafia I noticed it from you posting really detailed explanations on everything but it was obvious nothing really interested you (otherwise you'd devote more time to that).

It feels like that this game too. But really, I can be wrong. Just don't want you to think that there aren't reasons for peeps to think you are mafia. There's probably reasons to think I'm too.

Even if as mafia you put in the most effort even over townies it doesn't give the right not to be lynched.
Yes, I've been disinterested and demotivated. I think this game's setup really is awful with an inactive group, and makes for torture to play in.

....


+1 to Trfel.

This is the 5th iteration of this setup I have had a chance to host on TL. Looking back at previous games, it tends to amplify both positive and negative aspects of town activity atmosphere. An active town can use the flexible lynch mechanic to bulldoze a scum-team. As in this game, an inactive town can get frozen and gridlocked trying to consolidate on a majority lynch.

Unfortunately, this game was compromised by inactivity. GTacc and Mr. Cheesecake were modkilled for inactivity. HoldenGolden would have been warned (and was likely on the way to a modkill) before he got lynched. No game (especially this setup) is fun when a third of the game isn't active.

Show nested quote +
raynpelikoneet
08-13-2020
09:19 PM ET (US)
/m21 i dont understand why mafia would ever kill anyone? Since more possible suspects is better, just end the game with time limit no matter how many people left


Rayn also identified a pretty key flaw in the setup: there is rarely an incentive for mafia to night-kill. In future games, I would RNG a night kill if mafia did not submit an action (i.e. on Night 1).

Moderation Thoughts:

I'd appreciate feedback on the moderation of the game.

For my part, I think I screwed up on two fronts:

Firstly, I should have imposed much stricter activity requirements in a game of this nature. While a host cannot control activity levels, I can modkill and/or replace players more quickly. I had in my mind that 48-hours of thread inactivity would justify a warning. A second 48-hour period of inactivity would justify a mod-kill. A consecutive 72-hour period of inactivity would justify a modkill. I believe these standards were insufficient, especially when I had two replacements lined up for the game.

Secondly, I do not believe it was proper for me to require the confirmation of the night kill by both mafia members. It seemed unnecessary, and allows one inactive mafia member to derail night actions.

Regarding Gameplay:

I quoted a couple of posts from the QT and the thread that I found "thematic" of the game. The inactivity does make it difficult to draw too much from the game. However, the general "theme" of "townies going at each other's throats while mafia sits back and watches" holds.

Damdred's comment during the scramble toward the D2 lynch summarizes this dynamic well.

Show nested quote +
On August 16 2020 09:56 Dadred wrote:
Tbh I think most of the people who are actively here are probably town. Just gut read there


On D2, this was true: LS was barely active (and Mr. CC afk) while townies argued with each other and ultimately lynched Shockeyy.

Mr. CC, to his credit, was willing to "get involved" in lynch shenanigans on D1. However, I feel that his sabotage of the D1 lynch (by unvoting at the last minute on cycle 3) was a scum-slip.

Show nested quote +
On August 16 2020 09:15 Vivax wrote:
On August 16 2020 09:08 Trfel wrote:
The main thing I have against Fecalfeast is that he's been suspicious of basically everyone this game. He's voted for so many people and expressed willingness to kill so many people. I can kind of see it since it's hard to confirm people as town this game, but at the same time he seems super bloodthirsty.

I dunno if that is enough to make him mafia though :/

@Damdred, I'll keep thinking about it, but right now I'm not really seeing it.... Sorry if I am just being bad.


Being bloodthirsty is good, is town.

In this game mafia will most likely have a bag of old reads from D1 to carry around and just pretend to do nothing but now that the afk townies are gone (if Damdred presumably is town), in my view I am left with Shockeyy and eywa who fit that picture.

At least that's how I remember it, but I'm going over their posts first to see if I'm not reaching here.


Vivax had a great post here, albeit he drew the wrong conclusions. In the dynamic of this game, town has to push lynches. Being willing to lynch, and being involved in last-minute attempts to consolidate lynches are strong townie traits.

In this game, it is the mafia that were not bloodthirsty. LS was generally inactive around deadlines. Mr. CC almost highhandedly caused a no-lynch on D1. Onegu sat back and watched townies scream at each other.

Show nested quote +
On August 19 2020 03:41 Eywa- wrote:
I'm 100% always voting Damdred today by the way. Any votes cast for anyone but Damdred have a 0% chance of town win because I'm not moving.


These forced "binary choices" have come up in quite a few recent games, so I thought I'd point it out. In full disclosure, I ended up leading a mislynch in my most recent game against BloodyCobbler (oops) doing this same things.

All and all, I feel that these "binary" choices can be good if you are absolutely 100% sure that a player is mafia. The problem with this logic is that townies are rarely 100% sure of things. If they feel that they are, they usually vastly overestimate their accuracy and confidence.

With that said, binary choices limit a town's flexibility, and artificially amplify a player's propensity to tunnel on a target. It is no surprise that it led to a bad result in this game.

When you force a town to choose between one of two stupid options, logic dictates that they have a 100% chance of choosing a stupid option.


Hapa and I had a nice discussion about these things. I’ll post some thoughts during the week but mostly, I believe townplay is currently punishing people that gives lot of information and being too lenient with people that refuses to give information. Also, I believe town could have been better organised in the game.
I'm adorable.
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
August 23 2020 03:31 GMT
#1177
On August 23 2020 12:07 Vivax wrote:
The hosting was awesome but the activity glut made it hard to pull enough information in time.


Yeah, and to be fair, I was amazed when people decided LS should be the lynch. I find it very hard to catch LS as scum. The only way I can get him is by using a scum tell rsoultin once told me. So props to town for finding him.

But there was a point where people were basically accusing each other and not really listening. Fecalfeast pointed that out in a post that I’ll quote once I’m able to post a not-so-good GB analysis
I'm adorable.
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
August 23 2020 05:11 GMT
#1188
On August 23 2020 13:09 Dadred wrote:
I don't mind being called scum but just want to work with people and actually play and we didn't actually play mafia most of the time.

It was really demoralizing and not fun at a point, and not talking about Ewya scum read on me.



I 100% agree. Too much scumhunting but way too little interest in trying to see people coming for a different perspective.

Biggest problem in the game was town’s lack of ability in organising themselves and listening to each other.

I think you’ve played well damdy. I miss playing with you
I'm adorable.
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
August 23 2020 05:12 GMT
#1189
On August 23 2020 13:22 LightningStrike wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2020 12:31 GlowingBear wrote:
On August 23 2020 12:07 Vivax wrote:
The hosting was awesome but the activity glut made it hard to pull enough information in time.


Yeah, and to be fair, I was amazed when people decided LS should be the lynch. I find it very hard to catch LS as scum. The only way I can get him is by using a scum tell rsoultin once told me. So props to town for finding him.

But there was a point where people were basically accusing each other and not really listening. Fecalfeast pointed that out in a post that I’ll quote once I’m able to post a not-so-good GB analysis

Wait she actually told you one of my scum tells that I not even aware of? O.o


She did and I’ll never tell anyone what it is
You did it in this game btw
I'm adorable.
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
August 23 2020 05:16 GMT
#1190
On August 23 2020 13:33 Dadred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2020 13:16 Trfel wrote:
Yeah again I'm sorry for my play this game, especially the final day. It would have been good to look at Onegu more, the information was there to catch him, I think if the three of us had been more active we would have figured it out. That's largely on me.

Sorry for not wanting to kill Mr. Cheesecake that one day, he had me fooled pretty well

Definitely learned some things. Made some mistakes.

@Damdred, can I ask how to do a better job of avoiding those things in the future? Other than the obvious low motivation/activity in the last day, is there something I can change about my communication/posting style to make it easier to play with me? I wasn't intending to be toxic or insulting at all and I'm really sorry it came across that way, I do not harbor any of those feelings and have nothing but respect for you. Okay, maybe a little annoyance because you're such a good player and I wish I could play like that



You were fine I don't think you were toxic at all.

Tbh I think you will always run into the same problem I do and several others. We like to post we like to talk.

Sometimes it's better to think and not post every thought. Like I got myself in trouble for waffling my read on LS because I have such a soft spot on him, also I did pretend to have a stronger read cause I really thought cheesecake was scum. It led to a weird read change without much progression.

Sometimes you just have to have clear progression, like your LS read was great and you started to have an amazing follow up on it but you also got off track sometimes.

You just waffle around the thread sometimes, lack pointed questions sometimes but you played ok.


I disagree. The problem with Trfel is his lack of confidence in his own reads. Sometimes he believes someone might know the game better than him and stick with sheeping someone even if he completely disagrees with him.

Trfel is one of the few players that try to understand everyone’s perspective and keep trying to generate discussion, just like you. And it makes wonders in a game such as this one.
I'm adorable.
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
August 23 2020 05:17 GMT
#1191
On August 23 2020 13:53 Fecalfeast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2020 08:10 Fecalfeast wrote:
Another random thought if there was a no kill due to none being submitted and mafia is just afk this game doesn't count



Dude, I saw this and I was like ROFL
I'm adorable.
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