EPT[T] MS Paint-Off Mafia - Page 175
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:13 Rels wrote: Disagree. If you just shoot HF N1 you have a real "shot" at winning IMO. You become thread leader and do whatever you want. This is true yes, but it is only because geript played insanely good D1 (and D2, but especially D1). He is talking in general, and in general playing as mafia is to look and see what people find townie and say those things (so you don't get lynched). With the judges.... well it takes away the whole "how to play scum" away since you can't ever know what the judges find townie or not. And don't bring any meta bullshit here (i mean like "you should know how X or Y thinks") because no, that's just another point towards imbalance when you have to have "meta" and also apply it correctly in order to win. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:13 Rels wrote: Disagree. If you just shoot HF N1 you have a real "shot" at winning IMO. You become thread leader and do whatever you want. I don't think there's any way that forcing scum to be thread leader is balanced. Like any non-HF shot implicates people who are towny and experienced. Any HF shot risks mod-confirming HF. That's just lose-lose. In a normal game, Town doesn't even get to know if a shot was prevented (if medic) and a vet claim can be challenged (or shot again). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:18 geript wrote: I don't think there's any way that forcing scum to be thread leader is balanced. Like any non-HF shot implicates people who are towny and experienced. Any HF shot risks mod-confirming HF. That's just lose-lose. In a normal game, Town doesn't even get to know if a shot was prevented (if medic) and a vet claim can be challenged (or shot again). This. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:14 Koshi wrote: haha. Please geript. You can have your opinion but it is wrong. If we ever meet up we can talk about this for 4 hours. There is no way I am wrong about this. 14 players. 2 confirmed town. 1 parity cop. So 4 misslynches in a pool of 11 before you lose. It's like judges that can actually interact with the thread and you are not limited by any shenanigans, making EoD way harder for scum. And we as judges played way way way way better than you guys did in that previous game btw. And we as mafia did a pretty decent job as well. I still don't understand the modconfirmed shit with rayn but HF dropped the ball so fucking hard on the D1 lynch. I forgot about parity Cop which was stupidly OP with masons. Masons in a mini is Town favored, but not >65% imo (which is pretty Town favored). Even with the parity Cop, I think it's like 75-80% Town favored. Don't get me wrong, the last game was Town favored, but I don't think it's as much as this setup is. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:23 Koshi wrote: Well in a normal open game HF would be only confirmed to the doc. And if you want to medic dodge you still have to shoot very much down the line like you did here. No Koshi, the problem is here is no medic dodge. If you medic dodge in a normal game (correctly), you can shoot the person the next night. Here it's impossible, also there is the fact that if you happen to shoot someone who actually took the vest you will NEVER EVER be able to get rid of the mod confirmed town, unlike in a normal game. you should have always nominated Holyflare and ritoky for D3, that's where you made a mistake. Even if you think they can be mafia you should have always nominated them on D3 for the prize. That's a fact. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:22 geript wrote: I forgot about parity Cop which was stupidly OP with masons. Masons in a mini is Town favored, but not >65% imo (which is pretty Town favored). Even with the parity Cop, I think it's like 75-80% Town favored. Don't get me wrong, the last game was Town favored, but I don't think it's as much as this setup is. I agree this game was batshit hard for mafia again btw. and with batshit insane games the rolls are so swingy. Like last game having lower activity but good players Damdred/Geript as conf town and then rayn and hf (I think) bossing it up in the thread was pretty fucking insane as well. It was a tandem with reads you couldn't dismiss because they were conf town, and then a tandem of 2 hyper active vets who were controlling the game like crazy and were super activily trying to solve the game. And the cop was rolled on a guy who would never die before night 6 and he knew it... | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: No Koshi, the problem is here is no medic dodge. If you medic dodge in a normal game (correctly), you can shoot the person the next night. Here it's impossible, also there is the fact that if you happen to shoot someone who actually took the vest you will NEVER EVER be able to get rid of the mod confirmed town, unlike in a normal game. you should have always nominated Holyflare and ritoky for D3, that's where you made a mistake. Even if you think they can be mafia you should have always nominated them on D3 for the prize. That's a fact. We should have nominated ritoky I agree. I didn't read a single post that day (and from the lynch before that, I didn't even know who was lynched) because I was with gf and I saw no other judge had a list. So I just remembered superbia saying "We need to look at HF" after the lynch, and removed him from the pool, I didn't think of ritoky, and then just wrote down my townreads. geript kinda never was a real townread for me, I mean one with reaoning. He just popped up there because he played so good. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:27 Koshi wrote: Like last game having lower activity but good players Damdred/Geript as conf town and then rayn and hf (I think) bossing it up in the thread was pretty fucking insane as well. It was a tandem with reads you couldn't dismiss because they were conf town, and then a tandem of 2 hyper active vets who were controlling the game like crazy and were super activily trying to solve the game. And the cop was rolled on a guy who would never die before night 6 and he knew it... I am not really sure what you're trying to say? That last game was imbalanced because town was too good? That's not how balance works, well playing team beats the less well playing. That has nothing to do with if the game is balanced or not. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not really sure what you're trying to say? That last game was imbalanced because town was too good? That's not how balance works, well playing team beats the less well playing. That has nothing to do with if the game is balanced or not. No. I mean that in favored games like this the battering looks even worse if the correct people get the correct roles. I can see this game be more "balanced" with other people on the blues. You guys played very well D2 and the thread and the judges were bamboozled. But due to some skill (Vivax and then Superbia) bossed it up and we hit the perfect scumteam. I think that it could have went different if for example we had somebody who actually scumread CC or TW on the judges. But we never did. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
Then it is business as usual and the imba setup doesn't look imba at all. (also we needed a framer that game) | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:23 Koshi wrote: Well in a normal open game HF would be only confirmed to the doc. And if you want to medic dodge you still have to shoot very much down the line like you did here. Right, but in a normal the medic could be a paranoid townie who won't heal HF. Or HF will be medic. Or there won't be a medic. Like 50% of the time in this game the town winner is choosing vest. That's a far, far higher percentage than Town leader gets healed in a normal. Even if HF gets healed, who cares... no big deal. We can just shoot him again. That's the thing; here, D2 we have the same situation as D1. This setup forces mafia to be in complete control of the thread and votes, and have the judges never be able to pick up on it, and be more townie than all the Town all while not giving themselves away via simple vote analysis. Like imagine if we didn't make sure I won D3, then we also have to shoot second best to not confirm mafia (which makes it harder for me to win) or we have to put up with if X player will medic or cop check. Who do they medic. Who do they cop check. Every time mafia wins power up, they're put in a worse position than they were before. Every time they lose a power up, they're in a worse position than before. If town isn't terrible, then they can just setup two 1:1 trades. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:14 Koshi wrote: haha. Please geript. You can have your opinion but it is wrong. If we ever meet up we can talk about this for 4 hours. There is no way I am wrong about this. 14 players. 2 confirmed town. 1 parity cop. So 4 misslynches in a pool of 11 before you lose. It's like judges that can actually interact with the thread and you are not limited by any shenanigans, making EoD way harder for scum. And we as judges played way way way way better than you guys did in that previous game btw. And we as mafia did a pretty decent job as well. I still don't understand the modconfirmed shit with rayn but HF dropped the ball so fucking hard on the D1 lynch. What's there not to understand? Rayn got called mafia and when people were piling on he got angry and said he's replacing out. Then he said "the mods won't let me replace." When I see that I don't believe a mafia rayn would replace out for being called mafia. But apparently it was more than that. Still shouldn't ever talk about mod actions and not being able to be replaced though. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On August 22 2017 19:35 Holyflare wrote: What's there not to understand? Rayn got called mafia and when people were piling on he got angry and said he's replacing out. Then he said "the mods won't let me replace." When I see that I don't believe a mafia rayn would replace out for being called mafia. But apparently it was more than that. Still shouldn't ever talk about mod actions and not being able to be replaced though. Ok now I understand. I just never read that. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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