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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 17 2017 07:34 disformation wrote: who? eden or xata? dont think i have played with eden before. opening is 50/50. tries to give the thread something to work with and gtfos. it is mechanical/setup talk though, so easy to do as scum. xata biting immediately is only something i found after reading his posts like 3 times with a "why could he be scum" mindset. Why are you taking my claim at face value, disfo? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 00:28 disformation wrote: huh? you claim something at the start of the game which might be true or not might be true. i have seen both alignments do that, so 50/50. if you are town you do that in the hope of giving ppl something to talk/discuss about. problem is that its super easy to throw about mechanical/setup stuff as scum. so your opening is basically as nai as it gets? What I'm getting at is that I do not see how my "Setup A" post (especially without clarifying what Setup A even refers to, since it's not in the OP) is "giving thread something to work with." Unless you believed me to be claiming a role and telling the thread, my initial post didn't convey anything meaningful. Hence my question. You would have to take my claim at face value for my opening post to mean anything. You think my opening post meant something, so you are therefore taking my claim at face value. Why? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 17 2017 07:21 Damdred wrote: And we are at a junction where it is me or xata, it's obvious he's scum look at him using smiley face On March 17 2017 07:25 disformation wrote: Was expecting something better tbh. Like something about Eden baiting with setup talk and xata instantly being like "so to make it official: you are either bsing or are one of these blue roles?" I cut a couple posts in-between, but as far as I can tell, disformation's comment was about Damdred and not Xatalos. disformation is saying that he was unimpressed with Damdred's reasoning for voting Xatalos and not Xatalos's reaction to my opener. Yet for some reason the conversation plays out as though disformation were talking about Xatalos's reaction to me: On March 17 2017 07:37 Calix wrote: That's a lot of words for "his claim is NAI" fam. Why is Xat's response more likely scum than town? On March 17 2017 07:38 Xatalos wrote: Hmmm.... Could you elaborate on how you came to the conclusion that scum Xata would post what I did? My post and your summary of it also didn't seem to resemble each other very much. On March 17 2017 07:39 Xatalos wrote: I mean how does this become this? disformation tries to clarify on pg 7, Calix continues misunderstanding and when disformation gets annoyed about it, Calix claims a scumread based on tone: On March 17 2017 07:56 Calix wrote: Okay, I'm starting to think you're mafia from your reactions here. Nothing to do with what you're saying, really, it's more that you sound very tense and defensive and like you have a massive stick up your arse for no real reason once people started engaging with you. It's a different vibe from what I get from Damdred and Xatalos who seem more chill and willing to get shit done. ##vote disformation This is really uncharitable from Calix. Wouldn't you expect somebody whose point has been misunderstood for multiple pages of exchanges to be a little frustrated about it? It didn't read suspicious to me in the least. Calix even says that the suspicion doesn't come from what disformation is actually saying, just that frustration. Calix, why didn't you question disformation further once it became clear that there was a misunderstanding regarding what disformation was saying? Why did you cop out to a tone-based scumread that isn't actually alignment-indicative? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 03:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Youre beating a dead horse try something else plz. Nah I'm good, need the answer to this question. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 03:35 Calix wrote: Simple - because it wasn't clear. Until you made this post, it didn't even occur to me that disformation might have been talking about Damdred when he made that post. (I stopped giving a shit a while ago) But hey, at least you diagnosed the root cause of the misunderstanding. But he told you that straight up... On March 17 2017 07:44 disformation wrote: wtf that smiley thing was damdy and I already explained what i got from the filter. You even replied to this post and started talking about his tone. I'll admit that I didn't follow what disformation meant on the first glance through either, but I was curious about what was going on and reread the exchange until I got it. Where was your curiosity? Why did you suddenly stop caring about the object of your questioning when disformation clarified it for you, and why did you turn your attention to irrelevant things that you later claim could be NAI as a reason to vote for him? On March 17 2017 08:01 Calix wrote: Sure, it's possible I am just misreading you based on something that's NAI for you...but I feel like the chat was more chill and then you disrupted that vibe and you're on the defense a lot. So I'm more inclined to think you're mafia until you actually do something, lol. I don't see how you could have genuinely tried to understand what he was saying and not understood it from this post, and it's about the time that you: (a) stopped trying to figure out what he was saying (b) started scumreading for it. This looks like the kind of pushing that comes from mafia - exploiting a communication error and pressing it, riling up the other person and then using that emotional reaction as an excuse to vote them. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 03:47 disformation wrote: Huh? You clearly posted "something". And ppl (Xata in this case) clearly responded/worked with it. And I called your opening 50/50 and NAI, that is not "meaningful". Never mind my question sucked. I felt like you were giving me too much credit by saying that I gave the thread something to work with and it made me suspicious. I can't actually figure out how to articulate that concern in a useful way though, and I'm suspicious of Calix and pretty sure y'all can't be mafia together, so I'm probably not actually going anywhere useful with this. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 03:54 Calix wrote: Eden, have you actually caught up? You're using similar arguments to disformation when he first accused me and I'm not going to cover old ground with someone who hasn't read the whole chat yet. If you're trying to get me to bog down the chat by arguing with you then you are sod out of luck. I'm trying, and mostly there, but you people use too many words to communicate too many ideas and Safari browser makes keeping up basically impossible bc you can't jump to page reasonably. Hilarious that anybody thinks this group of gossips can get bogged down by any line of discussion lol. I'm not trying to bog down shit, I want answers. Why did you suddenly stop caring about your argument when you got the answer you needed and why did you start making these nebulous tone claims that you acknowledged yourself are possibly NAI as a reason to vote somebody? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 04:08 Calix wrote: Fascinating but I see no reason to care about what you think since you're making things more complicated than they are and keep shoving leading questions down my throat. I've already said that disformation stuck out to me due to how he was acting and I voted. Then we argued again over his lack of doing shit. Then he started doing shit on his own and I unvoted. Simple. "that you acknowledged yourself are possibly NAI" You answer your own question with the word 'possibly'. I don't know whether it was NAI or not for sure so I engaged with disformation to find out. This is basic as fuck and I can't believe you thought this was a good thing to ask. This person is mafia. I've already explained the bulk of how this exchange played out, but I'll go over it again for clarity. 1. Disformation makes a somewhat confusing post about suspecting Damdred that gets misunderstood. 2. Calix, among others, is involved in questioning disformation about it. 3. Disformation clarifies the post in question with his comment about the "smilies being for damdy." When I was catching up, this exchange struck me because it took a couple tries for me to get what disformation meant. My reaction, as someone trying to follow what was going on and not getting what disformation was saying, was to go back and reread the exchange a couple more times, until I got it. It's worth noting that Xatalos was also reading along at this point, expressed confusion over the situation, but continued questioning disformation in a level-headed and fair way to understand what was going on. This behavior is exactly what I expect a good townie to do, and I townread Xatalos pretty strongly for it. 4. Calix, on the other hand, immediately jumps to a tone-based scumread of disformation. Her(?) reasoning ignores that disformation clarified what was said - even saying "this isn't based on what you're saying" - and doesn't attempt to understand why disformation might seem frustrated in his posting. This is a huge red flag for me because it was the opposite of my reaction as somebody trying to understand the information being exchanged. Instead of trying to dig further into what was going on, Calix was content with a weak tone read, stopped trying to figure out what was going on, voted disformation and moved on. Calix also curiously says that disformation "wasn't doing shit," but what do you call his initial post that sparked the whole argument? He was saying that Damdred is suspicious for having a weak reason for voting Xatalos. Isn't that "doing shit" within the literal first hour of game start? Obviously he didn't get a whole lot done after that, he was being pushed into defending himself because other people were misunderstanding his comment and questioning him about it. So basically, Calix is content with weak reasons for voting disformation, wasn't displaying the curiosity and earnestness for understanding that I would expect of town players reading the exchange I keep coming back to, and has been unnecessarily hostile in responding to my attempts to understand why she didn't display those characteristics I was expecting to see. Especially for day 1 this seems like a fantastic place to start. Pretty happy to park my vote here, and to ask people who are townreading Calix why exactly they are. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote: I'd like your overall reads when you have them Eden I don't have a lot yet and I'm sure outside of Calix, none of it is interesting. Top town is Xatalos followed shortly by rayn and Koshi. Top scum is Calix. Damdred has said a lot without a lot jumping out at me one way or another. I don't recall having this much difficulty discerning any feeling about his alignment when he's one of the more active posters in the thread before. Not really sure what to make of it yet, and to be fair to him, my relative disconnectedness from this game compared to past ones on here is probably to blame. I think disformation is lock town if I'm right about Calix. Pretty sure Calix is scum and spewed disfo town. Loved this post by disfo as well: On March 17 2017 18:05 disformation wrote: 1) Push someone weak so you have a scum read 2) get lazy and give the rest lazy town reads 3) "look how much work i already did" if shit happens you can still easily backtrack, since its early and the trs where fairly weak in the first place I don't get the Malongo wagon having so many votes. He's a giant blank right now and it's weird that a wagon on a straight null poster got so much traction so quick. Makes me think that there were multiple mafia driving the early discussion and managed to get attention centered on a townie with weak/no thread presence. The alternative is that Malongo is mafia and his team can't do anything to stop the town, in which case this game is easy and I'm not worried anyway. That's about all I got that I think matters right now. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Hell yeah. You're gonna vote Calix with me then right? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 05:02 Calix wrote: Eden, I still don't see anything that makes me mafia. All you did was say "here are some characteristics I think are town and here's what I would have done and since Calix didn't do these then Calix is mafia" How the fuck am I supposed to respond to that?! I'm not you, thank the Lord, and there's no One True Way for town to play. Ta dah, I have countered your 'case' in five minutes. If you think I missed anything then pls bulletpoint because reading your rambling walls of pretentious crap is giving me a migraine. You forgot the parts where: - your reasoning was bunk - you got really pissy for no reason when I tried to understand where you were coming from. I hope I made that short enough for your attention span, let me know if I need to break it down further. And hey, if y'all are gonna post 400 comments a day and give me a migraine, you can suffer through some long-winded sentences every now and then. Seems fair.  If you're so worried about little ole me voting for you, you can make a good case for Malongo being mafia. I don't actually get where that's coming from and I see you parked there, so maybe if you're town you can do us both a favor by showing me what I'm missing about Malongo and about you with a good case. If not, I can keep doing my thing here and that's fine by me. Your call. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2017 05:10 Calix wrote: If you're already using pre-flip associations and getting tunnel vision re: me before anyone has even flipped then your reads are going to be so off it's not even funny. What do you actually think of Malongo himself? Why exactly he is null to you? Why wouldn't he be null? This is a weird concept, since people are null by default, but here goes. He's null because he hasn't done anything relevant or important yet. He said something interesting about not liking the speed at which Damdred and disformation wagons grew. I like these kinds of observations, all else equal, but he didn't do anything with it and his vote on ray had no serious motivation behind it. So the sum of his actions is... nothing. He made a potentially interesting observation and did nothing to make it actually interesting. He voted for some guy for no particular reason. It's a bunch of air. Null. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
 will catch up soon | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
This firewall tanked my mafia time last night and this morning  almost certainly going to be gone at EOD as well, wedding in ~3 hrs.I think my case on Calix still has merit, but I can see no one was really interested, and I know I don't have time to push it through the more active players today, so I'm going to shelve it and make my vote more useful. On March 19 2017 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like if Eden says this he literally must think my case is crap because my case on Malongo is based on something he found slightly townie. He doesn't think Damdred (who i am voting for) is mafia. Xatalos (who was and is my third scumread) is his top townread. Why am i town in Eden's eys? That's basically everything i have done in this game, called these three people out. I disagree with your reads all the time lol. I've learned not to let that affect my read on you. My heuristics might be outdated, but when you're mafia you tend to be disproportionately forceful in tone compared to the strength of your argument. You'll push speculative reasons as though they were absolute fact and effectively bully-pulpit the thread and shove people into lining up behind you. When you're town, whether or not I agree with your direction in the thread, I at least get the sense that you're treating your arguments with the respect they deserve instead of demanding an undue amount of it from the other players. I think your play this game has been much more in line with the town description than the mafia description. I bet you'll even agree. So even though I don't like your Malongo case or Xatalos scumread, I can still easily be comfortable calling you town. As for Damdred, I didn't say that I don't think he's mafia, just that he didn't make an impression one way or another. I'm still not really prepared to say that he isn't, either. Just seems like he's said a lot of words and made a lot of posts, but very little has made a strong impression either way. I'll go and reread his filter and try to develop a more crystallized opinion of him for you though, since that's your wagon for today and I trust your motivations. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
disformation Koshi rayn Xatalos Eden That list is way shorter than I thought. No bueno | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 19 2017 03:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually this isn't as good as i first thought it looks. There are nothing but speculative reasons in mafia especially in D1 and i always push my reasoning as a fact regardless of alignment because i don't see why i (or anyone) should trust a read the person in themselves doesn't even look like balieving on. I'm not explaining well and I'll probably have to go pull quotes from past games to illustrate it, which I'm not sure I have time to do. I guess it's the difference between an officer walking a suspect to the courthouse vs an officer beating somebody with a nightstick to get them to go where he wants them. Both are absolutely sure they're right, but the first one has faith in the town and the process to get it right and doesn't try to bully people into lining up, where the second one is worried, almost paranoid, that he'll lose control of the town if he isn't exerting maximum force at all times. If that didn't make sense, I'm 3 glasses deep and counting and it made sense to me so fuck it. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 19 2017 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am fine withthat as for now. Although i don't know what i would do as mafia since when i started playing again (in my finished games) i haven't been mafia and i don't really care about driving conversation. I just dump down my reads and then people believe it or not and i don't care. All in all my townplay now is very different from what it used to be let's say 2yrs ago. so wait, are you telling me that my heuristics are outdated and probably useless now due to a long break? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 19 2017 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can you name the games so i can see it for myself. The love themed one that Holyflare did a while back. You got mad at me because I went deep on a really dumb power role based scumread of you. I'm pretty sure the read itself was trash lol. But you were mafia and seemed vastly worried out of proportion to the threat that I actually posed to you, and I'm pretty sure I've never seen it in any town games that we've played together, except when people made you really mad and they probably deserved it tbh | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
let's see what happens | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 19 2017 03:30 Xatalos wrote: I can kind of agree with how you're metaing rayn - but are you sure about the conclusion that he's giving his reads the "appropriate amount of force"? To me it's felt like he's pushed them with a little too much confidence compared to their strengths. I didn't explain this well. When I say "force" I'm not referring to confidence - ray always has this in spades. What I mean is that he tends as mafia to treat people like total morons if they dissent from him, whereas you can see here that he's not being degrading or demeaning toward people who disagree | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 19 2017 03:41 Calix wrote: Eden, why do you keep talking about a meta-read on a strong town-read of yours instead of engaging with your biggest scum-read in the thread? O.o Cuz I have no impulse control and the idea of trying to validate years-old meta in this game was interesting. Also I'm a few in and have no idea what I'm doing. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + i'm also second-guessing my scumread on you but i'm being lazy and don't want to reassess it too hard and lose all of what i perceived to be my progress this game | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I voted Damdred because: 1. Calix wasn't a reasonable wagon and tbh I was starting to second guess myself anyway 2. I didn't see any compelling reason to vote Malongo. It's safe but fuck that, town doesn't win making safe plays unless the Mafia sucks. 3. Damdred still hasn't done anything that made me think he couldn't be Mafia. That's hypocritical compared to Malongo, except that I know I can expect more from Damdred and I can't know to do so from Malongo. 4. My vote for Damdred put the wagons at 5-3 which gave the Mafia a chance to save Malongo if he were scum; gave town a second wagon to consider, and I thought if the EOD were more active we'd get more meaningful info from that with a real 2nd option. WITH THAT SAID, I apologize for not actually returning. I sorely underestimated my wireless carrier's range, Mississippi's infrastructure and the entertainment level of this wedding. I solemnly swear not to make any of those mistakes again, especially expecting positive outcomes from Mississippi's infratstructure. A truly egregious error to be certain | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
GL mafia get fucked town~ | ||
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