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On February 09 2017 04:32 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 01:25 RtaniSoul wrote:
Typing from mobile
Sharkie, there's two reasons from my side. The first is that the reasons to townread Grack for me has always been what he's done rather than how he's done it. The two reasons to townread Grack beyond some of his content are that the first mission passed when he could've failed it and let the blame hit you, and that he scumread vivax when he could've joined the sharkie/rtan hate train.
The first can be explained by the fact that if he's a spy, grack is probably their carry. Failing the first mission is more likely to get him scrutiny down the road as many people have used this argument to call him town. The second I believe comes from TMI. He knows you're resistance and reading what you've posted it looks really townie to him, plus it seems like something that spies are unlikely to do which has been the foundation of his townread.
The second is that all the three others have done things I find much more unlikely to come from scum. Silverika has pushed the thread forward a myriad of times and his reads have been rigid at times yet flexible at others, most notably in their return just now where he got off the rtan/sharkie is def spies train to re-eval that. They aren't in a rush to draw a conclusion either. I went through their filter a bit yesterday and found it impossible to see a spy narrative there.
Vivax is harder to explain and simple at the same time. He sucks at scum and unless he has a strong team is unlikely to try hard. Additionally, the weird things he's done just don't have the predictable townread consequences that grack has. Forcing yourself not to be on a team even when everyone TR's you doesn't make sense for scum. He also feels like he was way too smug about "catching" us which I have difficulty seeing coming from scum Vivax. Overall I still think that Vivax/Artanisoul are the scummers. Look at the way that Artanisoul is interpreting my actions compared to the way he interprets Vivax's actions. Grackaroni is town reading the person who I view as obvious town instead of trying to push the blame onto him like Vivax/Silverika were doing? It must be TMI. He's just trying to get town read by doing things that spies are unlikely to do. Vivax attacks people for including themselves in their teams and then follows up by not including himself in his team? That seems like something that spies are unlikely to do, so he's probably town. Also I don't think the description of Vivax's scum play is entirely accurate. He had a strong scum game just recently in Haunted Mansion. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513523-haunted-mansion-3?user=Vivax&page=5
i will admit that your play here is not optimal. assuming that we're right and you are scum, you may want to take a page from darthpunk's book and crawl right up the ass of whoever is blindly townreading you...take it from the one who gets mislynched when that happens; it's fucking frustrating
idk grack, you post some good posts here and there, but we've just never got that super shiny town vibe from you i guess? lex and i were both going please let this mission pass, please let this mission pass, would be so sick to win, damn all the silent people suddenly got active this is not a defeated spy team -_- and yeah, you were the one that just kept sticking out to us
could we be wrong? sure. don't think so. you certainly won't convince us WE'RE spies though lol ><
also, if you want to know why you personally give me the heebie jeebies, it's just this feeling that you're preemptively attempting to control the narrative when/if missions fail. i really don't think i'm going to play forum resistance again because i really dislike the lack of concrete information, but why go into a flurry about all the ifs ands or buts before we even see a result on a mission? that's pure speculation, which breeds paranoia, which isn't town-favored
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eh, i should probably reread and yet likely won't until maybe this weekend (another reason i haven't been playing on the forums for ages) cause i just talked to lex and apparently some of my impressions of how things have been going were wrong -_-
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On February 09 2017 05:23 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 04:47 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 19:09 RtaniSoul wrote:
For me it's also a PoE thing. Sharkie looks overwhelmingly town in so many of his posts as does Silverika, and the amount Vivax has invested in this game plus his usual tunnelvision suggests pretty strongly that he's town to me as well.
The main argument to defend Grack is that he could've failed the first mission and sharkie would've been blamed, but since that's what everyone would expect him to do as spy it's the perfect thing to pad your towncred with down the line. It creates a much higher chance to be on two missions. I actually think that's a pretty reasonable POE. But pretend for a second that I am town and you know that I am town. Which one of the three is mafia? ??? how exactly do you think it's a reasonable PoE when the PoE leads to you? like it literally says "everyone else is posting townie, and our main reason to townread grack was the success of the first mission" you're not making sense Because I did a similar POE to get to Vivax, which was pretty clear from my posts.
if you mean where does our poe take us if the host declares you an innocent child, then i guess probably vivax as well. is that what you're trying to get at?
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On February 08 2017 00:36 Grackaroni wrote:
Sharkie has been way way townier today than he has been anywhere before. I'm pretty sure he's just town.
I also think Silver is town
Vivax just keeps arguing that Silver/I aren't mafia based off WIFOM instead of analyzing posts and is ignoring sharkie making townie posts. I kind of think he just wants to take the opposing position of the other spy because he is basing his read on Silver/I on such weak reasoning while arguing that we need to ignore vote logic because it's WIFOM.
My new guess is that the team is Vivax/Artisoul/Tumblewood.
I think that would explain the yes votes for the first mission since one of Vivax/Artisoul was guaranteed to be put in the second mission for putting in Sharkie.
nh...yeah not really. from our perspective there wasn't a chance of us getting on the team precisely because of vivax's sharkie/rtani tinfoil that everyone else took up like a clarion call
more to the point, why does vivax propose an all-town team if he's scum? like sure you say it's because he's bound to be added next mission, but idk that seems needlessly risky when you can just get scum into the team, have them pass the mission, then they're pretty much locked in to the second one...rather than proposing all town and then hoping they get added to the second mission where if they don't, town gets mission 1, 2 and 3 and a free win
frankly, grack, it seems more like you decided that vivax had to be scum because silver and sharkie felt town to you (yes, i'm talking to you like you're town now since that's what you asked and i'm not 100% sure like ever lol ><), then you had to rationalize that somehow, when the simplest answer is that's a very unlikely scum play to ever come from vivax UNLESS he's also scum with one of the original three
like really that should lead you to revisit both sharkie and silver as possibly being scum with vivax, or dismissing vivax, if you're being rational about your analysis
let me turn the question back toward you...if not vivax, who? or, if vivax, who with vivax who was part of the original three, unless you're seeing something i'm not...i just don't see scum gambling on a free win for town with the very first team that's pretty retarded. vivax can be pretty pants-on-head sometimes but i'd never consider him to be that stupid
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On February 09 2017 05:39 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't really know what to make of your other post. It doesn't really address what I was trying to say and for some reason you interpret it as me trying to convince you that you are scum.
rephrase? (i'm actually a bit more disconnected from the game than lex lol >< i work and study and he um...well, he's looking for work >> the result of that should be obvious)
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On February 09 2017 05:33 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 05:28 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 05:23 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 04:47 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 19:09 RtaniSoul wrote:
For me it's also a PoE thing. Sharkie looks overwhelmingly town in so many of his posts as does Silverika, and the amount Vivax has invested in this game plus his usual tunnelvision suggests pretty strongly that he's town to me as well.
The main argument to defend Grack is that he could've failed the first mission and sharkie would've been blamed, but since that's what everyone would expect him to do as spy it's the perfect thing to pad your towncred with down the line. It creates a much higher chance to be on two missions. I actually think that's a pretty reasonable POE. But pretend for a second that I am town and you know that I am town. Which one of the three is mafia? ??? how exactly do you think it's a reasonable PoE when the PoE leads to you? like it literally says "everyone else is posting townie, and our main reason to townread grack was the success of the first mission" you're not making sense Because I did a similar POE to get to Vivax, which was pretty clear from my posts. if you mean where does our poe take us if the host declares you an innocent child, then i guess probably vivax as well. is that what you're trying to get at? More or less. I just wanted to know, if you were in my position, who you would be scum reading.
lol i kinda answered in that monstrosity of a post ^^
sharkie i 100% agree with lex just feels town to me. we could be huge suckers there, but he just seems like an eager puppy bouncing around perhaps even a bit aimlessly
i'm personally not as sure on silver as lex is...like if it's vivax i'd say they were together, if i were you and you are indeed town...or just silver. but i don't see/remember anything from silver that makes my gut twist, so to speak, in a eeewww i really don't like that sort of way. problem is we don't know him at all, so have no clue what he's capable of
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i guess it should be obvious why we think it's you by now lol ><
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On February 09 2017 06:00 Grackaroni wrote:
I actually feel a lot less good about my theory just based on how confused you seem to be by it.
I got this idea because I was feeling that sharkie and Silverika were very likely town.
If the first team is all town, there has to be some reason for it to have gone through so easily. Vivax/you make the most sense as scum who might vote for the mission because you two shaped the mission by selecting sharkie and were the overwhelming choices to be added to the next mission.
So my guess was that Vivax wasn't able to add himself because he didn't want to look like a hypocrite after all of the griping he did earlier. He didn't want to flip his read on you, so he didn't add you. And the third scum probably didn't look good enough to add.
Otherwise I basically have to conclude that Silverika is scum. Which seems increasingly possible.
maybe we were reading a different game? your theory hinges on vivax being scared shitless to alter his position on anything as scum, yeah? so if he's too scared to put himself on a team, and too scared to change his read on us, and whoever this third is is never going to make a team as you claim...
like why even play? lol >< half the game was convinced sharkie was scum cause vote logic and vivax led the anti-rtani crusade. this doesn't make sense grack
@ sl
but, but, i don't want sharkie to be scum, cause if that's the case lex and i are the biggest suckers on the planet :/
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On February 09 2017 06:09 sicklucker wrote:
really? all i remember is artanis crying to be on it figured he would get it.
-facepalms- yeah. he was whining cause we were being scumread over tinfoil paranoia and never going to end up on a team lol >< viva wanting to 'test' it with us on it instead of sharkie was the closest that came
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On February 09 2017 06:14 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:09 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:00 Grackaroni wrote:
I actually feel a lot less good about my theory just based on how confused you seem to be by it.
I got this idea because I was feeling that sharkie and Silverika were very likely town.
If the first team is all town, there has to be some reason for it to have gone through so easily. Vivax/you make the most sense as scum who might vote for the mission because you two shaped the mission by selecting sharkie and were the overwhelming choices to be added to the next mission.
So my guess was that Vivax wasn't able to add himself because he didn't want to look like a hypocrite after all of the griping he did earlier. He didn't want to flip his read on you, so he didn't add you. And the third scum probably didn't look good enough to add.
Otherwise I basically have to conclude that Silverika is scum. Which seems increasingly possible. maybe we were reading a different game? your theory hinges on vivax being scared shitless to alter his position on anything as scum, yeah? so if he's too scared to put himself on a team, and too scared to change his read on us, and whoever this third is is never going to make a team as you claim... like why even play? lol >< half the game was convinced sharkie was scum cause vote logic and vivax led the anti-rtani crusade. this doesn't make sense grack @ sl but, but, i don't want sharkie to be scum, cause if that's the case lex and i are the biggest suckers on the planet :/ I don't really think he's scared shitless. I just think it could be an acceptable team for him to submit as mafia.
do you disagree with my logic?
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On February 09 2017 06:13 sicklucker wrote:
i almost dont want to include vivax now because why the hell did so many people vote for him. hell i thought i was voting for rstoulin!
do you disagree with my logic regarding vivax? namely that it doesn't really make sense for him to be scum unless he was scum with one of grack/sharkie/silver?
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On February 09 2017 06:15 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:15 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:14 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 06:09 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:00 Grackaroni wrote:
I actually feel a lot less good about my theory just based on how confused you seem to be by it.
I got this idea because I was feeling that sharkie and Silverika were very likely town.
If the first team is all town, there has to be some reason for it to have gone through so easily. Vivax/you make the most sense as scum who might vote for the mission because you two shaped the mission by selecting sharkie and were the overwhelming choices to be added to the next mission.
So my guess was that Vivax wasn't able to add himself because he didn't want to look like a hypocrite after all of the griping he did earlier. He didn't want to flip his read on you, so he didn't add you. And the third scum probably didn't look good enough to add.
Otherwise I basically have to conclude that Silverika is scum. Which seems increasingly possible. maybe we were reading a different game? your theory hinges on vivax being scared shitless to alter his position on anything as scum, yeah? so if he's too scared to put himself on a team, and too scared to change his read on us, and whoever this third is is never going to make a team as you claim... like why even play? lol >< half the game was convinced sharkie was scum cause vote logic and vivax led the anti-rtani crusade. this doesn't make sense grack @ sl but, but, i don't want sharkie to be scum, cause if that's the case lex and i are the biggest suckers on the planet :/ I don't really think he's scared shitless. I just think it could be an acceptable team for him to submit as mafia. do you disagree with my logic? Which logic?
regarding vivax unlikely to be scum by himself -_-
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On February 09 2017 06:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll also say that it's getting weird for me to continue arguing over this theory because the longer I argue the more I'm starting to believe that the scum is just Silverika being cranky.
okay now i just want you to tell me that i'm right ^^ it's mean to say you don't agree with my logic but at the same time seem to accept it by suspecting silver
if you don't think what i'm saying makes sense, why do you think it's silver now?
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On February 09 2017 06:28 sicklucker wrote:
and grack still thinks im mafia so hes invalid ;p
I don't really blame anyone for thinking you're mafia tbh.
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On February 09 2017 06:31 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:22 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll also say that it's getting weird for me to continue arguing over this theory because the longer I argue the more I'm starting to believe that the scum is just Silverika being cranky. okay now i just want you to tell me that i'm right ^^ it's mean to say you don't agree with my logic but at the same time seem to accept it by suspecting silver if you don't think what i'm saying makes sense, why do you think it's silver now? Because you can't understand the theory! If the theory is true then it shouldn't be such a chore to walk you through it. Again, the whole point of it was that I was trying to think of why the mission may have passed if I was to trust my reads on Silver & Sharkie. A pairing of you/Vivax made a lot of sense to me. I'm just trying to make sense of the missions. And I think the people that should be most suspect are the people who didn't seem to put much thought into passing the last two missions despite the strangeness of votes and the thread atmosphere. I believe that would be you/Vivax/Silver/TW/SL
>> -flicks- no, see that's not how this works. you say, rsoul, you're brilliant, your logic is amazing (cause it is!) and you have shown me the light! i now realize how stupid i was to even suggest this possibility of scum yoloing based off silliness
ego-stroking is very good for an rsoul. saying he's reevaluating because she's too stupid to grasp his theory is very rude. exceedingly rude. (first off, i do grasp it just fine, just don't see it as valid even if i didn't already know it was wrong lol ><) and second off lying to be nice is a thing
THE RSOUL ISN'T STUPID -beats with an overripe banana
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On February 09 2017 06:40 sicklucker wrote:
sharkie and ec* like the rest i kind of expect to vote how they did as either alignment
You don't think it's weird Super voted against every single mission?
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On February 09 2017 06:32 sharkie wrote:
I still disagree with the fact that one of us three are spies. I find it ridiculous how in the positions all three of us were that none tried to abuse the fact to sabotage the mission. I find it much more likely that vivax is in a team full of incompetent spies and tried to solo carry the team to victory. And if we consider how many incompetent players we actually do have in this game (ec, tw, sl, super half of the game) is this really so far fetched?
I disliked his stance of trying to create a rt/sharkie combo and then his sudden switch from grack being his best townbuddy to suddenly rt being his best townbuddy or is that normal play here on this forum when you get accused of being a spy that you turn 180 degrees on him? If that were the case, do people expect me to accuse silver, vivax, grack, sl, tw, super,ec spies since they at one point in the game tried to frame me for being spy?
-squints at- if vivax is actually townreading us that's news to us...pretty sure we've been on his naughty tinfoil list all game...i want to see the miracle!
more seriously, explain vivax putting up an all-town team
>< it doesn't make sense
like you are literally saying that vivax
1) put up an all town team as scum
2) was going to yolo whether he got selected on the 2nd mission
3) if he or his scum buddies didn't get selected on the 2nd mission, give up the game because the 3rd would have passed with no failed missions whatsoever
this world makes no sense
please tell me i'm not in crazy town and SOMEONE understands what i'm saying ><
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On February 09 2017 06:44 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:36 sicklucker wrote:
so in a silver is scum world safe to say im town eh? Not really. It's not like you said anything to convince anyone that he was scum. Plus I feel like spies are a little bit incentivized to oppose one another in this setup so that everyone in town wants to side with at least one of the spies. Think of the game where Tumble/I were mafia and the town split down the middle into two opposing camps. After Tumble got lynched we were able to lynch a bunch of his supporters. I kind of think a similar strategy is ideal here to gain the trust of the most people.
i wish we could cop-check you ^^ then if you were scum it would be way easier to find at least one of the others because you gave away your strat \o/
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On February 09 2017 06:53 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:37 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:31 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 06:22 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll also say that it's getting weird for me to continue arguing over this theory because the longer I argue the more I'm starting to believe that the scum is just Silverika being cranky. okay now i just want you to tell me that i'm right ^^ it's mean to say you don't agree with my logic but at the same time seem to accept it by suspecting silver if you don't think what i'm saying makes sense, why do you think it's silver now? Because you can't understand the theory! If the theory is true then it shouldn't be such a chore to walk you through it. Again, the whole point of it was that I was trying to think of why the mission may have passed if I was to trust my reads on Silver & Sharkie. A pairing of you/Vivax made a lot of sense to me. I'm just trying to make sense of the missions. And I think the people that should be most suspect are the people who didn't seem to put much thought into passing the last two missions despite the strangeness of votes and the thread atmosphere. I believe that would be you/Vivax/Silver/TW/SL >> -flicks- no, see that's not how this works. you say, rsoul, you're brilliant, your logic is amazing (cause it is!) and you have shown me the light! i now realize how stupid i was to even suggest this possibility of scum yoloing based off silliness ego-stroking is very good for an rsoul. saying he's reevaluating because she's too stupid to grasp his theory is very rude. exceedingly rude. (first off, i do grasp it just fine, just don't see it as valid even if i didn't already know it was wrong lol ><) and second off lying to be nice is a thing THE RSOUL ISN'T STUPID -beats with an overripe banana Haha. I don't think you understand what I was trying to say but what I was trying to say probably isn't right anyway, so I guess we can argue over which one of us is stupid. Here's the bullet points: * Silver/Sharkie seem really likely town * Therefore, Vivax must be scum * But then the votes for the first mission wouldn't make sense * Unless the team was both Vivax & Artanisoul, in which case it could be perfectly viable for scum to approve. The reason I'm changing my mind isn't because I think for Vivax to be scum one of Silver/Sharkie also must be scum. If Silver is scum then I think Vivax is a less likely partner than quite a few other people.
-squints at- you still haven't corrected my logic at all, because my logic is infallible! unassailable! would require an insane vivax of craziness!
(yes i am still trying to get someone to show me how i'm wrong; no dice so far. must mean i'm right  )
more to the point, you reevaluating based not on my unassailable logic but rather on the shoddy logic that my not following your theory 'invalidates' it is kinda poor. if spies don't have a qt, i don't have to understand what vivax is doing for us to be spies together. that's a pretty strange reason to drop the theory entirely
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