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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 08 2017 07:41 darthfoley wrote: ^ yea what's the point of reading the thread and then not interacting with anyone until near EoD. And why do you like that Calix? Mostly a tonal thing but that post felt honest with stuff like "I'd rather not post than spam" and his questionnaire reaction. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 08 2017 09:02 darthfoley wrote: Give me one reason not to fucking lynch btdt On January 08 2017 09:04 Vivax wrote: The only one I can think of is that he's tilting and throwing as town. But it's still a nobrainer to do it and he will get my vote no matter what. Really sad that grack, a player I've known since Game of Thrones mafia and who has clearly shown his skill this game, had to go cause of him. Noting this because you two were pretty adamant that BTDT vs Grack is TvT iirc and I don't get why Grack flipping Medic leads to this change in attitude. (well actually that's not true but I want to hear your answers first) | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 08 2017 13:40 Vivax wrote: 3) You need to open the nested quotes ika. Then it takes quite a bit of habit to learn to read that and find what you want, but the question was this: Which question? This question: 2) nope thats not what i said, i said you were implying i am town based on how you acted. theres a difference there How did I act? I asked Darthfoley out about his read on you. You think that implies a townread on you? Sorry, it doesn't. Hope that's out of the way now. My read on you anyhow is that you're probs town. I mean, you clearly care about the game. You seem interested into digging into things and so on. You also get emotional about the outcome. Overall that seems townie to me. For SW my read isn't as strong yet. The way she accused me of defending you earlier simply felt very unfair and like she was just trying to put words into my mouth. Then at some point she came back and the tone of the post sounded very different, so I found that a bit odd. It was somewhat less aggressive. Could be scum indicative as it would mean that her earlier conviction into what she accused me for was only a temporary act. To finish the post, I'm going to leave her at nullish/scummish for the time being. The post I found odd cause of the change in tonality is : + Show Spoiler + On January 07 2017 00:02 SilverWolf77 wrote: No, you don't have to have a read on ika to say darthfoley's read on him is bad. I agree. The problem I have is the way you are doing it. Basically, ika no longer has to answer the suspicion because you interjected. Not only interjected but also defended ika by asking if darthfoley has his meta and implying that ika's questions are not scummy. You have a right to have an opinion on ika's questioning but the way you are doing it is very protective of ika. If you have no read of ika, this doesn't make much sense. I guess my gut just pinged hard off of that and also I think you interjected when someone was questioning someone else-I think Calix pointed this out already. Anyway, from my experience, scum like to do this because they get towncred for defending people they know are town. It's way too early to have a super strong opinion on someone's alignment, unless you know that alignment. Doesn't mean we can't have reads. We certainly can. But when I would of preferred to see ika answer the suspicion and engage with darth rather than have you interject. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm tired and rambling right now. Be back in a little bit. I think your reasons for town-reading ika are bad and you should reread him if your main reason is him being emotional and invested because that's more personality-indicative for him from what I've seen recently. (applies to SW to an extent as well) As far as your SW tone read goes, I would like to know which posts you are comparing with the one you flagged up. Not convinced that it's scum-indicative as it stands due to that last line. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 08 2017 17:59 reps)squishy wrote: 1) You reserve the right to call someone scum for a read someone makes; it is actually important. Recognize the time that it comes does influence the direction it will go. Scenario 1- Player A makes argument/claim vs player B, player B defends himself against player A, then player C critics either A's argument/claim or comes to B's defense. Scenario 2- Player A makes argument vs player B, Player C critiques player A's argument/claim or defends player B before player B defends him/herself. 2) You are correct! But it prevents progress, a clear goal of the mafia. So I feel that you are guilty of Scenario 2. And why I do not like Scenario two is because any accusation could look absurd or "forced" if you do not hear a player's defense of him/herself. Critiquing someone's argument or claim prematurely prevents reads from unraveling whether it is a town or scum read. Here is the suspicious post in my opinion. Below the quote I will put the post into scenario format for clarity purposes. Key: Player A: DF, Player B: Ika Player C:Vivax When questioned by Calix Player A (DF) Makes argument against Player B (Ika) Before Player B (ika) Defends himself against player A (DF), Player C (Vivax) Critiques Player A's suspicions. And as a result Ika never responded to DF. I will reiterate my self. Vivax's premature defense of Ika prevented a potential read from being uncovered. So that is why I think Vivax's defense of other players is scummy. On January 08 2017 18:10 reps)squishy wrote: Grack was one of my scum leads for a while. His refusal to show Vivax was town was key to my suspicion. His view on arguments called for specific evidence which would not lead to town finding out other town. In mafia I believe getting town reads is just as important as finding scum reads. It is important to know who to lynch and who not to lynch. Convincing people someone is town is important so that we know who our allies are. It is a game of informed minority vs uninformed majority. We want to make it an informed majority. Any read is a good read regardless of if it is a town or scum read. So that is why I originally suspected Grack. I unvoted Grack because of a lapse of judgement (hard to admit). At the time I felt that the lack of objectiveness and direction by Boston was highly AI. But that could easily be explained by newbie play. When the doctor claim came out I felt like Grack was actually the doc and my suspicions vanished. Then btdt cc'd. And that lead to my prior suspicions reemerging. I thought Grack was mafia, and that role call was a last ditch to save himself. And I took btdt's word for it at the time. I arrived at the conclusion to vote for Grack because of my own thought processes, and not being a populist politician as you accuse me of. Many of you will probably ask why is this coming out now and not earlier. It is because a mixture of work and car problems. Which includes car dying, failing to jump start it, installing a new battery, then having my car lose power because of a loose terminal, lastly getting towed. Anyway college for me will be starting on the 11th until then I will only have work to worry about. I hope that the substance of my posts make up for my sub-par activity. Not sure what to make of reps right now. On the one hand, I like his first post as it makes sense with what he's been doing and is using his own logic even if it is unconventional. My main problem with reps right now is that his posts relating to Grack/ BTDT seem narrative-like to me (that third paragraph particularly) and they're not showing the same type of analysis that his first post shows. I'm not 100% sure why that's the case. Possible that he was struggling to keep up with the thread and that's why his post quality dropped or it's his inexperience with claim analysis talking (although neither of those are AI). I am thinking the second one because of how his posts are written. I can't really put my finger on it but they're very...generic?...with how he approaches it. It's very basic "one of them must be lying so I'll vote the guy I scum-read earlier" reasoning. It's also possible that he wanted to stay neutral in the drama but given that he makes it clear that he prefers Grack and it's just his reasoning that's weird, I think my other theories are more likely. As it stands, I still think he's town because of his earlier posts but if this becomes a pattern then I'd reconsider. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
- Responds to the Onegu thing with an explanation that contradicts his stated reasoning at the time - Forms gut reads on people who were already being scum-read (this is scummy because he claimed to be reading up yet his thoughts conveniently match what the current thread consensus was, wtf) - Questions ME after other people do (lack of initiative with pushing his reads + blending) - Does not vote until Grack vs BTDT becomes a thing (see above point) Looks like a classic case of scum blending in to me. (also why the fuck would a townie would ask about whether ending the day early is possible when he still hadn't contributed at that point and said he was going to???) The main thing redeeming him is that BTDT made that massive case against him and most of that didn't actually show scum motivation. That suggests they're not on a team since scummers would be more aware of their team-mates' scummy-ass behaviour. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
As for the people on the KSC wagon, I actually think they're more likely to be town given how easy it is for scum to just hop on the Grack train with no consequences. I can't say that for sure, however, as neither of them were getting emotional about it or expressing a lot of frustration over Grack dying prior to the lynch (which is generally how town reacts to a town-read of theirs being lynched) but I also get why they might have been resigned to seeing Grack die. DF being paranoid about the wagons and the people voting on them is townie and it also reminds me of how he was around ExO last game we played. Meanwhile Vivax is either a townie who figured "fuck it nobody is listening to me anyway" or a scummer who knew Grack was town and was 'opposing' the lynch without actually trying to stop it. As said earlier, I'm leaning towards the former atm (also some of his posts reminded me of me in HM 3) but latter is possible given that he seems pretty "whatever" about who dies in general and not just in relation to Grack. It's hard to know what to make of KSC himself at EOD since he wasn't around and his Grack vote was one from the early stages with trolly reasoning so there's nothing to analyse there. I think he's a good target for tomorrow in terms of forcing him to do stuff and spew his alignment. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 02:23 MichaelEhrmantraut wrote: I have something to add about B0ston. I don't know if this has been missed. If you are town why would you want an instalynch when there's a CC ? I think that holds for a lot of other people too. And Grack was one of the most vocal people here. I wanted to hold it until EOD because i was reading through the posts, and to me Grack didn't look scum. I couldn't come up with anything conclusive about anyone else. And since you can't abstain here, I just voted. As such my one vote wasn't going to make any difference except give away information at that point. Wait wtf. Why are you concerned about "giving away information" with your votes if you're town?! That's mafia rationale. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 01:54 ika42 wrote: I question where you get the bolded for both me and SW. The last game you have played with us we were both scum and we both lacked emotions and investments in the thread So is there a game your refrencing here or where this that come form? What I mean there is you raging at SP last game as mafia. I also recall you two were quite aggressive with your posts in Fringe in one of the universes or something (but I only skim-read that game so correct me if I'm wrong). (also I disagree that SW was scum since she was uninformed neut in that game and didn't have info on who mafia were. afaik I have yet to see a mafia!SW so that's why I said it's less applicable to her) | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 03:20 MichaelEhrmantraut wrote: I don't agree with your assessment. I would've readily abstained if I was given the choice. You focus on the part that suits your argument the most. You literally say in your post "my vote wasn't going to make a difference except give away information". I'm asking you what motivation town has to hide information regarding votes because I do not see one at all. It is irrelevant whether you technically abstained by not voting or not because that still denies town information which you said was your motivation for abstaining. It doesn't make sense for VT or blue because scum cannot discern roles from how people vote so that leaves one possibility which is mafia. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 03:30 beentheredonethat wrote: Well guys. It's very simple. I didn't buy the claim of Doctor so I chose to counterclaim. If it was a fakeclaim => great, scum down! If not - Doc down. Awkward but that was supposed to happen N1 anyways. So you can go all nuts like "noooes, btdt you scummer" and lynch into the Cop that I am - OR you can chill the fuck out and play this game calmly. Are you seriously claiming that you counterclaimed a Medic as the Cop? What the actual fuck was the play there? | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 04:21 SilverWolf77 wrote: btdt is scum flailing If he's town he needs a game ban after this for griefing and borderline game throwing. I have asked ME for reads twice now and he's ignored me. I say we lynch him after btdt. B0ston after that. If these 3 are the scumteam, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think the scum team is Boston/ BTDT/ ME. The latter two make sense and I'm having a hard time finding fault with my arguments against them. With Boston, however, BTDT trying to get Boston lynched doesn't strike me as optimal scum play for SvS. I think the last mafia is more likely to be among the null people. Most likely one of KSC/ Onegu/ Vivax. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 04:49 MichaelEhrmantraut wrote: Why have you been pressuring me for a read ? I don't understand it. I'll give you my read, when I have one. Instead go read the thread and look at people who claimed they had a read and haven't given one. You are actually behaving exactly like squishy when it comes to asking people for reads. "Don't look at my scummy behaviour, go look for people who are doing this other scummy thing instead!" Who falls under your criteria of "claims to have a read without giving one" exactly? Also lol at "why are you pressuring me for reads" in a game about analysing players by what they write. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 04:54 MichaelEhrmantraut wrote: I had a misconception about the night phase, I thought we are not allowed to post during the night phase ( in an RL game you can't talk during night ...), so I thought that applied to this forum too. So, I thought why would you give away information just before night, because the topic would be locked up, until the next day phase. But what information would be gained from you voting for someone that would help scum exactly? Correct me if I'm wrong since I haven't played RL mafia but I find the insinuation that scummers use VCA to determine their night kills hilarious. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 04:58 Kmatt wrote: So if we're all in agreement that BTDT is long overdue for being mounted on a fence post, who do you think among potential scum is up for the following vote? B0ston and ME are the obvious choices but like Calix said I can't help but think at least one of the mafia is actively mucking the thread up. Granted this guy has his work cut out for him at the moment. I want to hear your opinion first since this looks like a way to create doubt among the active players otherwise. I for one do not think that the majority of the mafia are active. That's the simplest answer as scum have incentive to not post when town are arguing among each other and paranoia isn't going to help. We should focus on the lurkers/ players skirting by since they have a higher chance of being scum and seeing what people say about the lurkers will reveal more about the actives anyway. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 09:50 Kmatt wrote: We were all gonna vote him anyway. Seems like a waste of a shot. I'm sorry, what? You realise that's EXACTLY WHY BTDT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE SHOT. Nobody else is getting lynched today. Hell, we'd be lucky if people even feel pressure if we try pushing them since they know that BTDT's going to die at the end. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
Are we going to figure out why it happened today? No. We have no reliable information on the scum team's capacities aside from "they shot Vivax N1" which could have happened for any number of reasons at this point. We're better off focusing on what's going on in the thread (aside from BTDT if possible) and figure out Vivax's death later imo. Too much speculative posting otherwise. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 10:26 Onegu wrote: I would say this leans more toward Kelsier being scum fwiw as the vet that would shoot vivax. What makes you conclude that exactly? Not terribly familiar with what the veterans in this game are like meta-wise. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On January 09 2017 10:40 darthfoley wrote: No reason to go for the jackpot when we're already down a doc. Anyways there's nothing we can do about it now so let's focus on trying not to waste D2 by being super lazy and simply lynching btdt I don't think your concerns are unreasonable given that Grack and Vivax were both town. However I'm not seeing anything in your post that suggests one/ both of them are doing this on purpose as opposed to townies who were just wrong on D1. It's typical of them to tag-team their scum-reads from my experience. As it stands, it's counterproductive to tinfoil this early. Not that this has ever stopped you, of course. I'm sounding like a stodgy teacher here with lecturing but it's almost 2am, I kinda want to sleep and I think town needs a kick up the arse. Half the posts since Vivax's death have been NKA WIFOM, role speculation WIFOM and BTDT votes. | ||
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