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[M][N] A Mini With Funny Gifs - Page 61
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
3. Shapelog 11. sicklucker 4. Onegu 1. Rels 2. Holyflare 6. darthfoley 12. Tictock 5. LightningStrike 8. Checkm8 9. mahrgell 10. emperorchampion Reading TT his analysis posts during the night I cannot see this guy be mafia. Such clean and not forced reads + analysis. Really like that a lot. He doesn't force his ideas on anybody but they are good observations. He is focusing on the correct people. If shape is mafia, darthfoley is kinda confirmed town. There is no good explanation why he goes hard against his buddy Shape after his framer flips. I live in a world in which Shape is mafia so atm I have an extreme hard time seeing darth be mafia. Even if Shape is town, darth only comes into play because some questionable posts on NU and PoE, but would mafia show face so obviously? darth has a couple really townie moments (start of game, start of night) and some pretty bad moments (around NU lynch). Mafia players tend to make gray posts, darth isn't. So darth is not mafia? HF is being called "obvious town pushed by dumbasses" by 2 people that could be mafia. And my feelings say he could be town due to his laid back playstyle, which shows by the fact he is not trying to take control of the thread. The only thing I am missing is real hard push on mafia, one in which he convinces other people to vote mafia, but I don't know if he had to do that in this game yet. I also don't see any mafia agenda in his early play, as mafia and with NU looking this horrible, I think he would do something else than what he did here. Rels is probably town because he interacts with so many people. He looks for an interesting post, comments on it, and goes looking again. Doesn't seem there is any agenda in his play. Just needs more activity to remove doubt. Onegu will die if the people above him show any townie signs during D2. The NU spew is very weak. Other than that. Onegu has nothing going for him except SL vouching for him. Which makes it almost impossible not to lynch sl before Onegu. Sicklucker/Shape | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
Rels: With some distance I feel my rage at him was probably not reasonable in that dimension... Even though this post that started it still disturbs me highly. Similarly I can accept his reasoning for his mind change on me earlier. I can see this to be a townish progression. Then again for both incidents the scum interpretation is also copletely on the table for me, so let's call this null and not relevant. But even if I try to blend that out, I can't really give much positive to Rels at this point. Let's simply go through his interaction with NU + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2016 07:17 Rels wrote: OK I'm caught up. I think LS Koshi and DF are town. I think I wanna lynch one of HF TT Onegu and SL. Rest are null. His first summary. NU is seemingly null. + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2016 07:42 Rels wrote: No apart from his big post which was townie. Less than half an hour later, this is his first post really mentioning NU. So he didn't like NU (except for one post) but didnt feel like digging into it? Why? This would be easier for me to understand, if he was entirely focussed on his scumlist from the previously quoted post. But between those while, he also investigated HF and SL, ha also went after TT and DF, pointing out their possible scum tells. Why did he point out what disturbs him about those 2 neut reads, but you have to explicitly ask him after NU who is seemingly in the same pile? Okay, with him not talking about NU, let's look what happened instead: He starts a train on HF. Now when I read this from his filter, this confused me a bit as I had to look for reasons on why he want after HF here. Besides his previously mentioned list post, he pointed out two things: + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2016 06:53 Rels wrote: This is such a bad post. First, his read was "minor scumlean for that, but I hope he steps up". Second, he obviously won't think his NU read is scummy if he's town SINCE HE S TOWN. Third, you've played enough to know that it's normal to tend to scumread people that scumread you. On November 30 2016 07:20 Rels wrote: HF I hated that one post I quoted earlier. Rest of filter is meaningless. Actually this post is him further going deep down to a pointless argument, which doesn't show the "HF gamesense" Koshi was tlaking about at some point. I'm not sure about the first one. I, for completely unbiased reasons, can understand what he is trying to say here and think it is true. But imho the only conclusion from that should be that HFs points are moot and he should calm down. Not sure how this really points to him being scum. So this leaves us with the second one. Lack of HF-gamesense. Mhhh. This doesn't feel much stronger than his stuff against TT, who was not even on his scumlist. This sudden push feels a bit random. But hey, pushing randomly D1 is a valid strat! And pushing HF out of his tunnel, ignoring 11 out of 13 players... Not necessarily bad. But slowly I feel like I have to bend myself even more and more to make his actions align with town, while I can rather easily see those from scum. But let's continue. He continues talking about DF and TT. + Show Spoiler + A post about NU! Cool. He really doesn't like NU. Doesn't cause any action though. He stays on his HF stuff. + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2016 08:13 Rels wrote: It's weird that you checked out the votes before catching up ? ANd this doesn't convince me. 1) slight scumlean but hope for the better isn't very different from null. 2) then replace "scummy" by "suspicous" or whatever you meant. 3) I'm not arguing that, I'm saying I don't like you stating two times that marhgell should understand your argument against him and not scumlean you, when it's the normal reaction to have. Like again, I understand every post he makes here. But is that justifying a vote on HF? Especially given his arguments against TT and NU? And if he is really going after HF, this is damn half assed. But hey, there are others pushing that train now!, why get your hands dirty. Next he disappears until deadline. Comes back, makes the post I hated earlier. Then feels the need to point out how he doesn't like TT (again, this is entirely valid, but it feels so out of place with his actions). Gets into a fight with HF and me (okay, he isn't to blame for that one ^^) States that he has to decide between HF and NU, as both are scummy, finally agrees on NU. Agreeing on NU did nothing, NU was dead anyway. Why not go after HF? He didn't drop his suspicion on HF, he ust concluded that both are scummy. Create movement, force at least something out of HF. Force people to position themselves. If you feel the choice is between 2 scum, anything that comes from it can only help town. TLDR - his arguments mostly made sense when isolated and I can agree on many - When analyzing the progression, targeting, vote actions etc, things become odd --- To view everything from a Town!Rels point of view and make sense of it, I feel like I have to make so many assumptions to somehow get everything in. Unfocused, unmotivated and several mind twists etc. Those assumptions also don't fit my impression from him from our last game. --- If I view everything from a Scum!Rels point of view, I do not really have to do that. Stuff is straight forward. - his complete ignorance towards NU, even though he pointed out his dislike whenever he did mention him, is staggering - his EoD actions are at best wasted chances for town, if what he posted were his thoughts. Well... or we take the easier interpretation. - oh, I still hate his one post, you know which one ^.^ --- Conclusion: Right now, I really scumlean Rels quite hard. I feel like I could WIFOM myself out by always saying "but scumrels would pay more attention, yadayada". The problem I really have is to make him town I have to do that A LOT. way too much. To make him scum... this play is perfectly in line. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
Then he returns and misconstrued stuff and was irrelevant into more afk excuses. He's commenting on posts but not seemingly trying to solve a puzzle of alignments. I'm just going to sheep koshi again though. I liked his last summary a lot. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
You covered everything on why the Rels is mafia part so let me focus on the wifom town part: I ask Rels twice about directly about NU, and twice he answered and didn't try to overcompensate on his answer. So either Rels is a really good mafia player, (newbie mafia players feel like they need to say more useless words when talking about a scumbuddy), or he is town and NU was simply not on his mind. Look at how Shapelog talks about NU for example. It's always so longdreaded and wishy washy. Rels is quick, clean and decisive. I am not saying Rels is town, but if he is mafia his answers to those 2 questions were twice very clean. You got to know, as mafia you know your buddy is constantly under fire, and constantly you feel pressured talking about your buddy. While Rels is seemingly unaffected by that. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 01 2016 17:34 Holyflare wrote: I don't like how rels returned to say nothing but a post flip association on nu with tt(?) it didn't make any sense because of a smiley bs thing. But then again why would mafia try and clear tt. But then again what else can rels do. But then again... This post was so out of place at deadline too. He sees a wagon on nu, doesn't hate it. He thinks I'm mafia and votes me but then he's contemplating who to vote and then mentions a pre-flip association with NU and TT and it just looks really weird. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 01 2016 06:31 Rels wrote: I thnk I mentionned before that I hated this smiley. This doesn't make any sense with NU personality 'cause he's always ready to jump on the slightest thing to destroy people, and here he's somehow disappointed at TT poor play. That is NOT natural at all => NU should be aiming for TT for that "un interestingness", like he did countless times to every player in every game he played. Actually I think TT is spewed town if NU is scum. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
To quickly go over the 3 players who started the NU lynch. Emp: I said earlier, I 100% can't see him vs NU be MvM. I quickly glanced at that interaction again, but yeah... He is probably the lockiest locktown in this game for me right now. Koshi: townlean - Why only lean? I said earlier, it felt to me like he was fishing for assistance against NU, now this is a strong town tell. Still, this does not invalidate my general concerns about him.It just puts more protown arguments on the pile. Like if this high effort bus play is in someones scum range, it is probably Koshi. Maybe I just have trust issues... ^.^ If I'm at lylo with Koshi, I would probably vote him. But until then I accept him as town. SL: The antithesis to Koshi. He did nothing all day, declared a bunch of people being scum, voted NU, went offline again for the rest of the day, then victory paraded on NUs grave for his own brilliant "read". Erm... yeah. If he is scum, this is really the lowest effort bus ever. Like I have really troubles on giving him any town cred for it. He didn't do anything here. But when I look at it from a scum perspective, it puzzles me even more. I would really like to know from ppl who played with him before, if this kind of shit bus is in his scumrange or not. Personally I honestly tend towards him being a terrible/utterly lazy townie who played blind roulette and won and now celebrates. I know that SL has experience, but the alternative to this interpretation is an even more terrible scum, who decided to bus his team mate, completely forgot that when bus you usually don't want your mate dead or at least get town cred for it, but managed to kill his mate and not get anything from it. TLDR: Emp: TOWNIEST TOWN EVER Koshi: the stuff on NU was either very good town play, or a deliberate attempt at the play of the year as scum, which i eel he would be able to, but the easier solution is to attempt it was good town play for now SL: his stuff on NU was either bad(but lucky) town play or completely awful scum play. Both interpretations are way below what I expected from a player from his experience, but I tend to the first interpretation. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
I will try to dive through the remaining 7 too... But those are players I have currently no feeling, so this needs more elaborated dives... | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
MOAR FILTERS! | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Rels
France13467 Posts
It's a bad post. Most of it is a shitty narrative that explains all my actions in the case I'm scum. Since I'm not it's worthless. To answer your question: I didn't push for HF over NU because I thought NU was a more likey scum than HF. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
- overall he looked completely overwhelmed by being scum ^^ - makes me more inclined to think LS is town, if he was scum and they decided the day by battling, okay, but this does not align with NUs later post shyness. - points out a contradiction with CM8, but way less followup than with LS. This post almost seems more directed at LS (as the contradiction is about the stance of CM8 towards LS) Not sure here. At one hand it feels like a cheap shot at a newbie town, on the other hand I would expect a shellshocked NU to probably use this chance to push a newbie more. Maybe I get a clearer opinion once I read CM8s filter again. (that should be quick...) - interacts with Koshi shortly over CM8. The easy explanation is Koshi is town, the difficult one is Koshi is a scum mastermind, tried to give NU a chance to look good, was not pleased, decided to do the super play. Let's stick with the easy one ^.^ - interacts with me: CLEARLY MAKES ME TOWN!!! okay... not doing that. I leave the analysis of myself to others  - his opinion on Onegu is inconclusive imho... not reading anything int that. He was forced to say something about Onegu, he did say something. - he joins up with HF on me. Not sure what to make of this. - there are 2 players he sidejabs from time to time: TT&SL For both he seems to paint them bad without any real reasoning. Just like random "I don't like this guy for whatever" I'm really not sure how to judge this. Common mafia knowledge tells us, that scum should keep one scumbuddy among their townleans, one among their scumleans. Is he using common mafia knowledge here? Then either TT or SL would be scum. Is it really that easy? Like I somehow believe in a minimum standard of play on this site and right now I try to imagine scum QT in the SL scum case: NU: Hey guys, I really have no clue what to post. Oh yeah, I did some list posts, mentioned you as scumlean SL, nothing personal. SL: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/fjp4q4E3o443S/200.gif) Well... and TT went completely missing, but I haven't reread his filter yet. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On December 01 2016 07:39 Koshi wrote: TT isn't. He could be anything. NU only touched him a little bit and it was very prudent. I can see them being buddies. I really disagree. His disappointment at TT reeked of TMI. If TT is scum NU would expect him to be different from last game. | ||
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