EPTStar Wars: The Mafia Awaken - Page 6
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MoosyDoosy
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MoosyDoosy
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On February 09 2016 03:00 Koshi wrote: What about we send MD/Onegu/Chez and let them fight it out? The least we try to kill Koshi the better. I promise. I would actually enjoy this. xP mostly because it would be me and Chez playing games and Onegu claiming VT over and over. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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Rels marv NocturneMage darthfoley disfo Chezinu Onegu boxerfred noon Vayne Koshi | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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- Rels town from D2 although I had my suspicion earlier so I would not be surprised if he is unexpectedly Mafia. But I will go logic > feel for now. - marv is active lol - NM is doing his convoluted way of collecting reads lean on green - darthfoley looks good, tbh don't remember him much, townread him early and forgot about him. may look into later. - disformation looks like his waffle king town but i am never sure about him. I will check his mafia game I think. Lol wtf idek - Chezinu is an enigma, but he plays games so that is cool. - Onegu is an enigma, but he does not play games so he is lower than Chezinu. People to Look Into: - boxerfred was bad EoD and his anger was definitely misplaced. Some of his reads were also very bad. - noon had some scummy posts from a scum mindset which I'm surprised no one seemed to have mentioned much. - I scumread him for D1 stuff but idk if he looks better now. Will have to look into again. - tbh i don't really know how I feel about Koshi but it looks like everyone is scum reading him so I will look into him again. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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especially looking at you NM. Just make sure they're compressed and I will answer. I am normally used to reading the thread as it progresses but I am having to play catch-up lately which is foreign to me and which is why I'm feeling less of a need to answer things. | ||
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--- poof --- | ||
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regretting not busing Palmar harder. | ||
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On February 09 2016 20:50 boxerfred wrote: ebwop: I have no problem to bus scum teammates D1 as I've shown already. I would've pinned Palmar down I guess. What do you think of Koshi in the light of this? | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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On February 09 2016 22:41 boxerfred wrote: So here is what happened D1: Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred justanothertownie (1): VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy Koshi is currently scum read by some persons. He went late Zyrre. He put his vote on Zyrre when it was 6-6 split between Palmar and Zyrre, and he does it rather late: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503495-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken-voting-thread?page=3#48 Roughly 20 minutes before deadline. The situation we're in is that Palmar is on the very edge of being lynched. He is the Godfather, yet he is afk - a big scum role that can confuse town really hard (remember - Finncop works not like the standard cop!) would be a huge loss D1. Koshi seems to not care too much for this game D1. His reads are meager, he's not pushing anyone too hard, he feels wishywashy. But then it comes to his vote: initially, he forgets the "##unvote", then he corrects it, writing his vote in the correct way. However, it doesn't seem to be enough for him: Why is that so important, given that the previous post was absolutely correct? It's tiny, yep, and might not be alignment indicative, but I can see a nervous close-to-deadline-with-GF-close-to-being-lynched scum!Koshi acting nervous. That would bring us to: Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred justanothertownie (1): VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy Chez' vote on Zyrre would also make sense as scum. He said EoD2 after the Palmar lynch that he originally wanted to see Palmar dead D1 already - but he didn't vote him. marvellosity's switch feels weird to me but yeah...not gonna put the tinfoil hat back on again, he was the one to initiate the whole Palmar thingy. Rels feels townie to me. He's active and eager to do stuff, but the biggest thing is his genuine reaction to the LS replacement. On second thought though I'm not sure if that really was an alignment indicative dumbtell. I'd take it as that if LS would flip red, I'd lock Rels as town then. But - I do not know about LS' alignment, so yeah. Head and heart tell me though that Rels is town. disformation feels to me like he is playing a weak town game. He doesn't dare to push people, although he picks stuff every now and then. I wish he'd actually push some people, drop some committed reads, instead of just staying in his comfort zone. He's either a townie afraid to appear bad or a scum guy playing a very soft, careful game. His D1 felt very townie to me, but I think he got away with my town read too easy. However he ended up voting the Palmar train and went through with that - I don't think scum!disformation would have the guts for such a bus. So I'll paint him green here, too. VayneAuthority's activity level feels similar to what I learnt of him in other games. Town lean at this point, but not enough to paint him green in the PoE-kind-of-VCA I'm currently doing here. I paint him green because he was early on the Palmar wagon and did not leave at any point. This is not a 100% town read - but I want to simplify things. boxerfred is town, I know that. Gonna add the colours.. Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred justanothertownie (1): Onegu VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy nooniansong was scumread by me D1. I don't understand exactly why people like marv (?) started to townread him and I would really like to get an explanation on that from the guys who townread him. If he's scum, his vote was safe and sound on Zyrre. A solid no-risk-scum-play at D1. darthfoley really dropped off in activity. At least that's how I feel like. I need to filter-dive here and I'm glad for anyone dropping reads on those two guys. NocturneMage - can't drop a read, didn't look into yet. Gotta do this though to at least gain some impression. Only impression I have is from D1 where NM fought VA, and I'm not sure how to judge that. Last, but not least: MoosyDoosy. Voting outside both trains feels weird. But I think this is rather town indicative than scum indicative. The wagons were close, and the Zyrre lynch happened rather last minute. If he was scum with Palmar, I'm sure he'd have switched earlier - a last second switch would've put a bad light on him, especially given that there was no guarantee that Palmar would survive the night. Onegu got replaced by LightningStrike. LS should step up now and do something for town. If he remains rather low activity and lurky, he should be lynched sooner or later. No way to have this guy in LYLO. What do you guys think? I was around once at D1 and not sooner so there was no way I could have changed my vote as either alignment.  Also, that's a very strange reason to townread someone. If you think Koshi is scum then both scum switching to save Palmar would have looked very strange, especially as JAT flipped town. So definitely one scum wouldn't have switched while Koshi worked to save Palmar's ass. Unless you really think mafia would be so dumb as to all switch to save Palmar. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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On February 09 2016 22:44 boxerfred wrote: Hm this is interesting since I located him in a rather scummy spot in my post above. Koshi was voting nooniansong D1, I didn't pay attention to this. So if Koshi flips red, we have nooniansong in a safe spot. noted for my filter | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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On February 09 2016 23:16 NocturneMage wrote: Here is the vote count with strikethroughs: Here is your VCA (spoilered for brevity) + Show Spoiler [Your vote analysis] + On February 09 2016 22:41 boxerfred wrote: So here is what happened D1: Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred justanothertownie (1): VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy Koshi is currently scum read by some persons. He went late Zyrre. He put his vote on Zyrre when it was 6-6 split between Palmar and Zyrre, and he does it rather late: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503495-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken-voting-thread?page=3#48 Roughly 20 minutes before deadline. The situation we're in is that Palmar is on the very edge of being lynched. He is the Godfather, yet he is afk - a big scum role that can confuse town really hard (remember - Finncop works not like the standard cop!) would be a huge loss D1. Koshi seems to not care too much for this game D1. His reads are meager, he's not pushing anyone too hard, he feels wishywashy. But then it comes to his vote: initially, he forgets the "##unvote", then he corrects it, writing his vote in the correct way. However, it doesn't seem to be enough for him: Why is that so important, given that the previous post was absolutely correct? It's tiny, yep, and might not be alignment indicative, but I can see a nervous close-to-deadline-with-GF-close-to-being-lynched scum!Koshi acting nervous. That would bring us to: Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred justanothertownie (1): VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy Chez' vote on Zyrre would also make sense as scum. He said EoD2 after the Palmar lynch that he originally wanted to see Palmar dead D1 already - but he didn't vote him. marvellosity's switch feels weird to me but yeah...not gonna put the tinfoil hat back on again, he was the one to initiate the whole Palmar thingy. Rels feels townie to me. He's active and eager to do stuff, but the biggest thing is his genuine reaction to the LS replacement. On second thought though I'm not sure if that really was an alignment indicative dumbtell. I'd take it as that if LS would flip red, I'd lock Rels as town then. But - I do not know about LS' alignment, so yeah. Head and heart tell me though that Rels is town. disformation feels to me like he is playing a weak town game. He doesn't dare to push people, although he picks stuff every now and then. I wish he'd actually push some people, drop some committed reads, instead of just staying in his comfort zone. He's either a townie afraid to appear bad or a scum guy playing a very soft, careful game. His D1 felt very townie to me, but I think he got away with my town read too easy. However he ended up voting the Palmar train and went through with that - I don't think scum!disformation would have the guts for such a bus. So I'll paint him green here, too. VayneAuthority's activity level feels similar to what I learnt of him in other games. Town lean at this point, but not enough to paint him green in the PoE-kind-of-VCA I'm currently doing here. I paint him green because he was early on the Palmar wagon and did not leave at any point. This is not a 100% town read - but I want to simplify things. boxerfred is town, I know that. Gonna add the colours.. Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred justanothertownie (1): Onegu VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy nooniansong was scumread by me D1. I don't understand exactly why people like marv (?) started to townread him and I would really like to get an explanation on that from the guys who townread him. If he's scum, his vote was safe and sound on Zyrre. A solid no-risk-scum-play at D1. darthfoley really dropped off in activity. At least that's how I feel like. I need to filter-dive here and I'm glad for anyone dropping reads on those two guys. NocturneMage - can't drop a read, didn't look into yet. Gotta do this though to at least gain some impression. Only impression I have is from D1 where NM fought VA, and I'm not sure how to judge that. Last, but not least: MoosyDoosy. Voting outside both trains feels weird. But I think this is rather town indicative than scum indicative. The wagons were close, and the Zyrre lynch happened rather last minute. If he was scum with Palmar, I'm sure he'd have switched earlier - a last second switch would've put a bad light on him, especially given that there was no guarantee that Palmar would survive the night. I want to focus on a few things. First question - the read on Moosy - I don't quite understand this. IIRC, Moosy was entirely afk or nearly entirely AFK for end of cycle. His only vote came roughly 19 hours before the end when I was playing the "pick a townie" game with him in the middle of the night (our time). It was on VA, and he never pushed that vote. He just threw it down and left (quotes below, or read his filter) He placed his vote down on VA and never moved it (if you can see HTS votecount with all the cancelled votes), and was completely AFK so regardless of Palmar's alignment the vote looks poor because he escapes accountability altogether. This was his vote http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503437-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken?page=40#791 This was his FINAL post before end of cycle about 18h before end of cycle: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503437-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken?page=42#838 This was his first post ~1h AFTER the lynch http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503437-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken?page=73#1443 Here's the question - now knowing or possibly realising that Moosy was severely AFK and his non-push of his own vote, does this make him any more or less town to you? See Nocturnemage is smart and doesn't come up with dumb reasons to townread me | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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On February 09 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote: You assume that Moosy was AFK. I think he was lurking (ie. not afk). A lurky scum!Moosy would have switched to Zyrre at some point IMHO which is why in my VCA I say it's town indicative. Of course can just be idgaf afk, yep. Hm I'm gonna give two answers: Lurky, lazy Moosy: townish for not voting Zyrre AFK Moosy: scummy/nullish Given that he was in-thread one hour after the lynch I can see him being AFK. Plus, this: Yeah I should scumlean him, minimum. Especially since I just saw http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503437-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken?page=42#840 which paints you green af. How could I miss this lol? :D I was afk | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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On February 10 2016 04:26 boxerfred wrote: By the way, everyone's so sure on Koshi and Chez, yet I am the only person to actually have voted? Are you guys unsure suddenly or what? As said before, it is night time | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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On February 10 2016 05:10 NocturneMage wrote: Nooniansoong, I just saw your Moosy read. + Show Spoiler [Your Moosy read] + On February 09 2016 23:20 nooniansoong wrote: [*]Chezinu
[*]MoosyDoosy
Do you see a pattern here? Day 1 reads + Show Spoiler + (Regarding townreading ritoky versus Damdred) On February 05 2016 15:11 MoosyDoosy wrote: I would honestly not take you ritoky. As adorable as you are, I prefer a Damdred leap of faith over you right now. Especially right now. On February 05 2016 15:11 NocturneMage wrote: Why? On February 05 2016 15:13 MoosyDoosy wrote: something about reading disfo, and ritoky by extension, his push onto someone, and something else i forget. On February 07 2016 02:55 MoosyDoosy wrote: Rels - I have a soul read situation with him that he knows as well. Every time in the past that I've been wary of him he's turned out to be Mafia. Every time I town read him immediately, he has been town. It has to do with how he sets himself up in the game. His opening made me wary. But I do agree with a lot of what he's been saying which is shit for me because logic > feelings from my experience in Mafia. Rels, I'm going to keep off of you for now, but that's on the basis you keep shitting townie rainbows. ritoky & disfo - Bear with me, things are foggy because I read quickly to catch up and play D2. There was a situation where ritoky pushed disfo and disfo made a shit case. I think NM and/or Palmar was implicated somewhere which should be interesting. Day 2 + Show Spoiler [Moosy Day 2 reads] + On February 08 2016 06:45 NocturneMage wrote: phoneposting So what about it? What are your thoughts on Rels now? What is this heuristic/tell you are using on Rels for? On February 08 2016 07:09 MoosyDoosy wrote: mMmmm i currently have no thoughts on Rels. This day is enough about Palmar that Rels has dropped off and there’s not enough for me to read him. This waits until N3/D3 where things should pick up. mMmmm...I'm interested in what you're aiming for D2 in general. Who are you looking into? What exactly are you trying to question? On February 08 2016 07:17 NocturneMage wrote: I don't find this believable or you haven't read the thread. Rels posted quite a bit earlier on Koshi and he pushed Koshi I believe. That's not the definition of falling off. He posted a massive case. On February 08 2016 07:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: bruh, do you seriously expect my thought process to make sense? Along with another point raised earlier to disformation about Moosy dodging questions: + Show Spoiler [addressing the question dodging of Moosy] + On February 09 2016 03:02 NocturneMage wrote: at disformation between the two solo voters, MoosyDoosy is more likely mafia than Onegu. it isn't super likely a scumteam would have 2/4 off wagon, even so look at other attributes. onegu there is absolutely zero indicative information either way. MoosyDoosy could be scum because: (1) repeated question dodging/not giving reads when requested (at least 3 occasions I've counted) - has bailed on me twice when questions have been asked directly of him, once day 1 and once early day 2 (2) reasons for scumreading/not trusting ritoky day 1 in context were extremely murky, vague and evasive (3) even if Rels verified that MD's meta read on him was correct, he also townread me a bit too easily. namely that I was town for being illogical/convoluted, whereas disformation and Rels scumread me for the exact same thing. pretty sure now that read was contrived. (4) Day 2 he stated that Rels' activity dropped off when the opposite was true - he was pushing Koshi. Instead of giving a read on Rels, Moosy gave another evasive answer (post 1854) (5) bottom of page 95, I pressed him for a read on Rels AGAIN. He gave another deflective answer AGAIN. (post 1898) Nothing after that after I had to go to bed. his "dumbtelling" is very easy to fake as mafia, and it's been a known fact since Fullmetal. I would use other criteria (less fake-able) to ensure he's town if he somehow is. I will expand on these points with quotes when I'm back on a laptop if I need to but references should be obvious. Are we possibly seeing a pattern here? All in all, if you read Moosy's entire filter, he's not committing to much of anything in terms of scumreads (except the obvious town ones). These points together? Alongside the solo vote, Moosy has a decent shot of being scum. Thoughts? Meh, I mean. My alignment is fairly obvious but if you read it that way. You should also revisit that last quote block. :p I didn't take the time to refute it, but a lot of it was incorrect. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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This is how I formulate my reads whether you like it or not lolol. Whether you like it or not NM, I am also right in how you play. As town you’re rather aggressive, push points, and use convoluted reasoning to come to conclusions. As mafia you’re prone to dishing out wall reads and more passive play while analyzing things like a robot. It’s also very easy for me to know your alignment because I was there to watch your play progress. There are set ways you play as town because as town you would not attempt to not play like town (except for me). And it’s clear in both Rels and you 100% ez reads. Also NM, you have absolutely the wrong grasp of my town meta. This was my game before this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500627-outlaw-mini-mafia?user=moosydoosy As bad as it is, I log into games to troll now, not to play. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
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On February 10 2016 07:15 NocturneMage wrote: Actually, no it wasn't. All of the points had references, some can doubt the subjectivity of number 3 but the rest of the points it is pretty clear if you read the filter and read the thread. You might also consider addressing Nooniansoong's case against you too. He brought up some original points against you I think that I didn't consider when I first read them. how so sson. I did not give a deflective answer on Rels, that is how unsure I am of him. I don’t think you understand how the relationship between me and him works. In games that he is town I always immediately know that he is town. Otherwise I have felt twinges of strangeness that end up in him as Mafia. This read is based on his opening but I’m not going to go further because I want to keep it as secret as possible. Part of the reason why I joined this game was because it had Damdred and a bunch of people that I could easily read (you, Rels) who would serve as decent townies so that I could troll hard if I wanted. So the moment I felt strangeness in Rels, I wanted to lynch him but his posts during that time actually reflected my thoughts. (posts around ritoky and disfo) And I unfortunately have a bad track record of deciding on feeling or logic in the past. There are very few cases where feeling has trumped logic so I was waffling on Rels’ alignment. Normally he would be scum. Unfortunately, he was doing good things and I had set the mandate for myself to always decide on logic > feelings in all future Mafia games. So I decided to wait and see. When Palmar came around, he was 100% the lynch so there was really nothing to do. Rels’ push onto Koshi could have come from either alignment. The way he would question other people would show his behavior which he wasn’t really doing (he was pushing koshi). So I waited until this day for Rels to do stuff to get the read on him. This is how I formulate my reads whether you like it or not lolol. Whether you like it or not NM, I am also right in how you play. As town you’re rather aggressive, push points, and use convoluted reasoning to come to conclusions. As mafia you’re prone to dishing out wall reads and more passive play while analyzing things like a robot. It’s also very easy for me to know your alignment because I was there to watch your play progress. There are set ways you play as town because as town you would not attempt to not play like town (except for me). And it’s clear in both Rels and you 100% ez reads. Also NM, you have absolutely the wrong grasp of my town meta. This was my game before this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500627-outlaw-mini-mafia?user=moosydoosy As bad as it is, I log into games to troll now, not to play. | ||
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