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On January 28 2016 05:21 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 05:06 Trfel wrote:On January 28 2016 04:58 Alur wrote:On January 28 2016 04:33 Trfel wrote:
Alur, why are you scumreading Kuragari42? His initial series of posts suffered from being quite unoriginal, and his last set of posts throw flak onto Darthfoley for changing his opinions on things - and while that did occur, he was once again not the first one to bring it up. He also only stated he was "semi-suspicious" after Darth had thrown suspicion on him. But he's promised us a big post, so I'm not gonna lynch before he's had his word. Either way, I find it improbable that Darth and Kuragari are the same allignment. On a related note, Onegu does seem a little scummy to me (he very much deals in absolutes, I don't see why he'd be so standoffish as town, but once again him being rude town isn't impossible). And like Darth and Kuragi I don't see you being on a scumteam with Onegu. It seems to me like your reasons for scumreading Kuragari42 are based on "these things don't show that he is town" instead of "these things shoe that he is scum". Is this true? Did you look at the way that Onegu has acted towards Shapelog? About Kuragari: I think lack of original thought, and primarily relying on already existing tendencies is mafia indicative. His posts don't feel like they're coming from a town perspective (to me). However, his blunt admittance to the fact that he's bad at pushing original agendas could be town indicative. So I grant you that we can't rule out a townie without direction. I'll look into Onegu's interactions with Shapelog, sec. Thanks, I think I understand what you're saying. Perhaps my early townread on him was stronger than it should have been, I'm not as sure about him any more.
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On January 28 2016 05:40 PepperMintTea wrote:
Trefl I would be interested to get your read/thoughts on Tumblewood I don't have a read on Tumblewood, to be honest. The only thing that stands out to me is that he seems to be very careful about his posts.
A lot of people seem to be suspecting Tumblewood, can someone please remind me why this is?
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It seems that I misinterpreted a few of Onegu's early posts towards Shapelog. I'm not so sure about him, I need to re-evaluate....
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Tumblewood, can you share why you are scumreading Shapelog at this point, please? I don't believe you've mentioned this in a while, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Onegu, when you said that Shapelog was being "weird" by bringing up meta on nooniansoong, what did you mean?
Did you mean that Shapelog was town, or mafia? If neither, why were you bringing it up?
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No, no, no.....
##unvote
##vote Tumblewood
Was going to wait for him to respond, but meh  Kinda embarrassing to have a bunch of newbies catch scum and not me, but it is what it is XD
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On January 28 2016 08:04 nooniansoong wrote:
Trfel looks solid to me. Eden is scum though. I am almost sure of that. Why?
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EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town.
Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong.
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On January 28 2016 08:08 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote:
EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town.
Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong. Why did you vote for him then... Uh, when I said "town", I meant to say "scum" 
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I didn't have an opinion on Tumblewood until I checked his filter more carefully, and then I realized that I was missing some important things.
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On January 28 2016 08:22 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 08:21 Trfel wrote:
I didn't have an opinion on Tumblewood until I checked his filter more carefully, and then I realized that I was missing some important things. Like what? Be specific. You cited literal none of these "important things" when you voted him. Of course not, he has to answer my question first. Then he gets to know why he's mafia 
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On January 28 2016 08:35 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 08:26 Trfel wrote:On January 28 2016 08:22 Eden1892 wrote:On January 28 2016 08:21 Trfel wrote:
I didn't have an opinion on Tumblewood until I checked his filter more carefully, and then I realized that I was missing some important things. Like what? Be specific. You cited literal none of these "important things" when you voted him. Of course not, he has to answer my question first. Then he gets to know why he's mafia What a cop out. I hate this. I feel obligated not to press you further on this in the event I'm wrong and you're on to something. But if I'm right and you're full of it, this is just giving you time to stall me out and avoid getting lynched. If you're town you need to make a good faith effort to show me you're not full of it with this line of questioning. I read Tumblewood's filter and felt his suspicions of Shapelog were very consistent and understandable (though I disagree with them). This question looks very do-nothing, like a lot of your questions have been this game. And your flip in those posts I cited is really suspicious to me. I'm trying to act in good faith and not screw up your play if you are town. Meet me halfway and give me a reason to believe you're not just hot air with this. Eden, I'm trying very hard to not direct the thread. It's a newbie game, I feel like the new players should lead it.
Basically, I don't feel that Tumblewood actually cares about his scumreads. His filter seems to be contributing, but while it is contributing, it doesn't seem like he's scumhunting. He's always scumreading the top suspects, but not talking about them, either, which is probably the biggest example of this.
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On January 28 2016 08:58 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 08:45 Trfel wrote:On January 28 2016 08:35 Eden1892 wrote:On January 28 2016 08:26 Trfel wrote:On January 28 2016 08:22 Eden1892 wrote:On January 28 2016 08:21 Trfel wrote:
I didn't have an opinion on Tumblewood until I checked his filter more carefully, and then I realized that I was missing some important things. Like what? Be specific. You cited literal none of these "important things" when you voted him. Of course not, he has to answer my question first. Then he gets to know why he's mafia What a cop out. I hate this. I feel obligated not to press you further on this in the event I'm wrong and you're on to something. But if I'm right and you're full of it, this is just giving you time to stall me out and avoid getting lynched. If you're town you need to make a good faith effort to show me you're not full of it with this line of questioning. I read Tumblewood's filter and felt his suspicions of Shapelog were very consistent and understandable (though I disagree with them). This question looks very do-nothing, like a lot of your questions have been this game. And your flip in those posts I cited is really suspicious to me. I'm trying to act in good faith and not screw up your play if you are town. Meet me halfway and give me a reason to believe you're not just hot air with this. Eden, I'm trying very hard to not direct the thread. It's a newbie game, I feel like the new players should lead it. Basically, I don't feel that Tumblewood actually cares about his scumreads. His filter seems to be contributing, but while it is contributing, it doesn't seem like he's scumhunting. He's always scumreading the top suspects, but not talking about them, either, which is probably the biggest example of this. I'm sympathetic to the idea that you don't want to dominate discussion in a newbie game, but I don't feel your play is emblematic of that concern. It looks more like you're asking questions to ask them -- just reacting to the thread for its own sake instead of having a particular direction or angle that you care about pursuing. If you were just trying not to take over discussion and crowd out the new guys, I think you would probably limit the number of things you attempt to respond to, as if to say "I'll cover this and this, the newbies can handle this line so I'll give them a shot at it". But that's not what happened -- you've asked a lot of people a lot of things and then just not followed through on many of them at all. But ok, let's say that you were doing what you said you were doing. (It'd be hard to have a meaningful conversation otherwise, I suppose...) What did that lead you to conclude about the new guys? Which new players do you feel were more of the "leaders" of the town and why? Who stood out among the newer guys (aside from Tumblewood, which you are already explaining now) as having not done this? I can still sorta buy that you were hanging back more to let the new guys do some work, but you gotta show me some proof that you're still invested. As for Tumblewood... - You say his filter is "contributing but not scumhunting." If you think he's mafia how do you think that he's contributing to the thread? Is meaningful contribution to the thread not the hallmark of town play? - I will allow you not to answer this question if it would blow up your attempt to question Tumblewood too much. But suffice to say that I disagree with you when you say that he's "always scumreading the top suspects but not talking about them." On an (admittedly cursory) read of his filter he seems to be explaining his scumreads to a reasonable extent whenever he's talking about them. Can you please cite examples to the contrary if it won't screw up your questioning too much to elaborate? I have been trying to ask pointed questions to put information in the thread that gives players the ability to solve the game. I have been trying to discuss with players as much as possible, for mutual gain. And I've been trying to make sure things don't get too far off track, which hasn't been much of an issue I feel.
I don't want to judge people's abilities for leadership, in addition to that being premature, it serves no purpose.
If you don't feel that I'm invested, then whatever, I'll continue to play my game. However, every single one of my questions has a purpose. As for my lazy/inaccurate reads, I make mistakes a lot. I don't have time to check and make sure that all my reads are 100% confident. That's not really something that I could fix without dropping out of school.
I guess I'll post my reasoning on Tumblewood, give me a bit.
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Oh, hey. Tumblewood, thanks for answering. Give me a bit to look through some stuff.
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Tumblewood
Tumblewood's first post here shows that he is scumreading Shapelog, and he says that this is because Shapelog made two posts where he said that he isn't scum. Tumblewood's argument is that because a townie wouldn't do this, then Shapelog is mafia. He also said that he had a scum lean of darthfoley because of two posts where darthfoley says that he is town, and adds that darthfoley has weird wording in a sentence (the explanation of the darthfoley read is here, where he says that this is the explanation for the scum lean he mentioned previously).
Why is Shapelog a stronger scumread than darthfoley? He didn't mention anything else about their play other than these comments, which is weird. Also note that Shapelog was the top suspect at this time.
Tumbleweed returned later and posted this post with new reads. He says that he's suspicious of Onegu, Shapelog, and Trfel. He also ends up with a null read on darthfoley, saying that he hasn't done anything to give him a read. This is really strange, because he described a scum lean on darthfoley previously, for the only reasoning that he's shared about Shapelog, who is still his scum read. There are lots of things I don't like about this post, I won't go into all of them, but it really gives the impression of trying to fit in.
He later says that darthfoley's play has been solid lately, which doesn't match with his earlier statement that darthfoley hadn't done much to be read on.
In addition to these read issues, Tumbleweed feels like he's responding to questions and thread sentiment, instead of actually wanting to solve the game.
Tumblewood explained his read on Shapelog at my request, you can see this explanation here. Here, he describes why he's continuing to scumread Shapelog. However, you can see that all of the posts he quoted are between his first and second longer posts. Note that in the first post, he discounted Shapelog's "strange" play as non alignment indicative, and in the second, he said that Shapelog was scummy because of his extremely scummy play early on (pre page 16). However, the posts that Tumblewood mentions were all after page 16. This explanation isn't possible.
Logically, Tumblewood cannot be scum. It's possible that he's town and messed up somehow, but given his filter as a whole, I think that he is scum.
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DANG I post that whole thing and then I screw up scum and town in the last line T.T
The last line should read: "Logically, Tumblewood cannot be town. It's possible that he's town and messed up somehow, but given his filter as a whole, I think that he is scum".
Anyway, I need to leave for dinner very soon, so if you have any questions, ask them soon. I'll be back later tonight.
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Nooniansoong, I'm not trying to come off as condescending at all. Like, I can't explain how opposite that is to my goal. I've been trying to show the OPPOSITE, that I trust everyone else enough to let them control the thread and lead things. Town's a team sport, and it always will be. And it's a simple fact that not everyone can be a leader at once in a mafia game.
I've been extremely impressed by the players in this game, not only in terms of effort, but also ability. Not a single player excepted (well okay, maybe Ikidomari, but he doesn't have much to judge yet). I'm very sorry for anything I said that may have been interpreted as offensive, because I have no bad feelings towards anyone at all.
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On phone, but that's not what Tumble said. He said that he wasnt really reading shape as anything except for that specific thing that he mentioned.
And either way, it isn't important to the reasons I gave.
If you have reasons go TR Tumble, please share.
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Sure, someone new might believe that. There's nothing wrong with it. Your point?
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I can't understand what nooniansoong's reasoning is at all. I'm going to hope that this is because I am on a phone and I'll look again later.
Nooniansoong, why JesusIncarnate? Why not Onegu any more? For the second part, if you already said, I'll look later.
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EPT
