Dark Tournament Mini Mafia - Page 10

On December 08 2015 03:46 disformation wrote:
NSM12 up to day 2: very similar to this. Starting D2 he starts to show a bit of life in his posts when talking with/to HtS and his scum reads.
NSM14 he also sounds very similar to here... well besides this thing:

But playing with cupcake can be rather rage inducing. So I understand.

But the overwhelming amount of posts sounds like this game. So I guess that is just his default tone and dub him Mr. Roboto.

Will look at his filter from this game more closely now.

On December 08 2015 03:49 NocturneMage wrote:


I'm marking this for reference because I am looking at this post and there are a slew of things that are throwing me off. Not because I think this post looks scummy but because there is a lot of subjectivity in this read.

Tone reads are tone reads. I was taught prior to this game they are very subjective, and generally best for day 1 reads but as a strong meta read through this is day 3? it just seems weak without other evidence like voting analysis etc. or if you can tie the meta to something else. Like when he acts X, he does Y in conjunction with Z. Tie the tone to actions. Tie the tone to effects. Am I making sense?

Separate from that however, I will look into the LS read. The unflipped association is really bad but townies also make unflipped association all the time. I pushed LS because he was doing dick all and only such after the fact, and most critically, he failed to push HTS when he found her end of cycle questionable. We both agreed the LS filter was complete trash through the end of day 2, so if LS's game has gotten better (to be fair I stopped reading after the hts lynch) AND if Fidei is continuing to push the lynch, then it does look really bad. I guess it comes down to what work he's put in to get his conclusions. I am putting aside LS for now based on the NKs personally.

Back to James focusing on a few people, I can understand as a scum indicative, ignoring time (which can account for town not having the time), it can indicate an agenda. Because mafia need mislynches. I can get that. The same argument however can be made for DYH, but this last thing I looked at him, he doesn't seem to have a lot of time playing the game? Both were making in and out excuses, so only the NK analysis separates those two.

To use another example, FF was playing Fallout 4 all weekend. But NKs don't/didn't implicate him, so...

Also this term called buddying. I had recently shadowed marvellosity and I asked him a question about the difference between buddying and pocketing. And that they were both related.

I didn't understand it in the context you were using it, so I looked it up.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Buddying



So I look at this definition Rels, and I am trying to think of a time where Fidei acts "unnaturally friendly" towards you. Lack of scepticism? He explained using meta why he's townreading you but are you saying it's bad meta to townread you or was there another quote that you using to say he's buddying you?

On December 08 2015 04:00 NocturneMage wrote:
I refute all these posts and particularly the basis for this scumreads based on how I replaced into the game, caught up, towncircled and adjusted reads (and I'm still doing so!!!!), and then he's still on his merry way saying I'm mafia? He uses his own metrics to make these assumptions. I'm on page 8/10 of his filter, he gives two town reads on dyh/ls, and then goes back to just seeing me as public enemy #1.

focusing on absolutely no one else except me and using explanations that don't make me mafia through several points I've refuted him on based on comparison of his play to last game, his approach to me this game, his refusal to see how I process through a town lens, including any reasoning for my change in tone, which I have explained.

he pulled the same shit last game as mafia, stuff that may not be alignment indicative and exclusive scum lens here.

and this all, plus the NKs....

Just kill Trfel.

I know there is mafia #3, I will follow up on James, and I won't ignore a third mafia but just honestly kill Trfel.

Bloody hell.

On December 05 2015 03:00 Trfel wrote:
This is simply wrong. Damdred said that he wasn't townreading NocturneMage, but he was clearly resistant to the lynch (as he showed on Day 1). And again, scum doesn't care to keep someone who is townreading them alive if that mafia is going to live for a few days.

Like, if The Shining is mafia, he knew that he probably wasn't going to die for a day or two, and that's a lot that could potentially change Damdred's read. Damdred's townread doesn't really mean much and it's okay to kill Damdred, and there's fear that Damdred could figure it out.

But NocturneMage was at a high chance of getting lynched the very next day, in which case Damdred's read on him at that very moment (null being better than everyone else's read, and Damdred had a lot of influence, and wouldn't lynch a null read) would be really valuable. Basically, NocturneMage would just have to stay null or look a little better and Damdred would likely try to stop the lynch.

I already said that this has too many variables and I'm unable to accurately draw a conclusion from the night kill. I believe the reasons by my earlier analysis but I no longer trust the conclusion. If you think I'm scum for being wrong, you should read any one of my town games, because I'm wrong a whole darn lot.

On December 08 2015 05:45 Fidei86 wrote:

Disfo I think you fundamentally misunderstand what bussing is. Bussing is where one mafia player actively works to get HTS lynched. The only people who really worked on the HTS lynch actively were NM, DYH and me. Oh and Palmar, but he's flipped town. If any of us were mafia, that would be a bus. The fact is that it was plainly obvious that she was going to get lynched once Alex, Palmar and I basically decided it. Lots of the rest of you voted for her, but just voting for a scum is not the same as bussing. Your logic is just totally wrong here.

On September 25 2015 07:34 Fidei86 wrote:
Most of the last 100 posts in the mafia QT are just me and Rels saying "soup hype"

On December 08 2015 06:03 disformation wrote:
Hm. scrolling through Trfel's filter...
Is he normally this active as town? Do you guys think he might be cluttering up the thread with his huge posts on purpose this game?

On December 08 2015 06:11 NocturneMage wrote:
Rels to answer your question on LS - I have read from the point of my main exchange with him, pges 7-9 of his filter can be summarised

(1) inflating the filter with useless comments (not even part of alignment determining conversation or even afk comments)
(2) parroting (examples post 1635)
(3) 1450 to 1478 is an example of asking for information and not really doing anything of it

This is insane for me. The NKs exonerate LS, but at the same time it is mindboggling this guy is doing dick all and people are ignoring him.

His filter is 1000% mafia. Something isn't right.

On December 08 2015 10:54 NocturneMage wrote:
Alright, here we go.

Some deep filter research/past games on LS.

I'm going through a few LS games as scum. I have some bad news for all you LS defenders, I think current meta is unreliable in gauging him as town. He actually has a very decent chance of being mafia.

I'm looking at two scum games by LS -

Jack of All Trades - endgamed night 3, mafia victory
TL Mafia LXX Guardians of the Galaxy - lynched day 2, mafia victory

In both games he has played as mafia, and looks decently (at first glance) close to his current playstyle in this game.

Read the Guardians filter in particular and he was downed by a very lucky random tracker role check.



Key areas in this one - Damdred had him as scum in that game. This game, he was going to vote LS and only changed based on the modconfirm. Reliability of metaread? Food for thought. IDK.

In that game, he was straight up tracker checked and you can't really fight a tracker check. IDK.

Now Jack of All Trades - he was clearly coached to play to his town meta this game. This was by geript.

Evidence - postgame mentioning by a teammate



LS in this game actually endgamed town. So whoever said that LS has trouble playing as mafia......sorry mate, you are wrong. Dead wrong.

He endgamed in Jack of All Trades and there's a reason.

Further evidence: the game's respective mafia QT.

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Nu9EUQfvt53

geript is completely coaching him to play to his town meta.

Same thing could very well be happening with a potential HTS/LS team. HTS and whoever else could be working with him for the same thing here.

James you might be on to something here. That policy lynch vote very well might be on to a mafia.

TLDR: The current reads right now based on this past performance are unreliable, so at best LS is a coin flip regardless of what people are thinking of this modconfirmation.

On December 08 2015 19:17 Fidei86 wrote:
Where are you Rels? Time to pick up a little bit of the weight here, bro.

On December 08 2015 19:14 Fidei86 wrote:

I appreciate the work you put in on this Alex, but really your post seems to be a very long version of "someone might be helping LS". Of course they might. Although, if they were helping him, they'd probably tell him to stop being so hopeless.

No, I think the more likely explanation is that scum LS is genuinely unable to lie. Like, he struggles with it. I struggled with it mightily too when I was mafia with Rels in SOTW2. And when you can't lie, the easiest thing to do is to constantly ask other people questions, give the blandest town reads possible to everyone and generally be useless. I should apologise to LS because if he is trying as town, I'm giving him a very hard time. But this is a game and I can only read what I have in front of me.

I really, really, really want everyone to imagine this game if LS isn't lynched. He's going to continue to be an absolute coin-flip throughout the whole game. Like, people have suspicions over Trfel, me, DYH ... I have a recent suspicion on FF. But at least all of those people have shown *some* willing to try and solve the game. If any of them are town, that towniness should in theory be possible to distinguish. LS is always going to be objectively scummy in this game. He has had two full game days to change his play and he hasn't. We lynch him now, maybe hit scum, but definitely get rid of the big damn question-mark over his head.

Yes, it's a policy lynch. I get that people think it's lazy. But I've been in too many games where Onegu has AFK'd through the first three days and then got mislynched at the end.

On December 08 2015 19:31 Fidei86 wrote:

(1) Screaming in all caps is LITERALLY THE EASIEST THING TO DO IN THE GAME. IT SHOULD BE USED FOR EMPHASIS ONLY WHEN MAKING IMPORTANT POINTS.
(2) Who knows why HTS did what she did. But this point does hold a little more weight. I have thought about it a fair bit. I'm just concerned that it's a little too much WIFOM and a little too little objectivity.

And who else do you want to lynch? Me?

On December 08 2015 19:33 Fidei86 wrote:
IS THIS WHAT IT HAS COME TO RELS? YOU SOLVE PERSONALITIES (ALMOST), YOU CARRY SOTW AND A BUNCH OF OTHER GAMES, AND NOW YOU WILL EXHONERATE LS BECAUSE HE USED ALL CAPS TO SAY "I'M NOT MAFIA"???

WTF? How can you possibly believe that?

On December 08 2015 19:37 Fidei86 wrote:

Eh, my town read on Trfel is highly out of date. I don't think I've properly considered his filter since D1. I do recall that he has had a cast-iron scum case on most of the people in the game. I've never come across a player like that before, so I have nothing to bench mark against. I really need to wrap a cold towel around my head and start reading his filter.

My potential scum-read on NM remains. I do think that it is a very possible play that NM and HTS cooked up his thread entry in a scenario where she wanted out of the game. However, the more likely option is that he just has a god-like read on Dani and has also been working hard on improving his thread presence, which is definitely a lot stronger this game than previous games.

He is also the only one who seems to be town reading me. I feel buddied.

On December 08 2015 19:40 Fidei86 wrote:
Yes. Will you please read FF's filter?

On December 08 2015 19:55 Fidei86 wrote:
I actually kind of want to know whether LS thinks that him speaking in all caps is town indicative.