EPT[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31
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2) Are all voters revealed after deadline or only the votes themselves? | ||
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On October 29 2015 07:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: /in /tunnel  | ||
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If two spies get on a mission together, only the one HIGHER in the player list (see: OP) sabotages it. Otherwise the spies are pretty much ruined with miscommunications and such. | ||
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Anyways /confirm | ||
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On November 02 2015 08:26 Superbia wrote: Yes. I'm also probably going to call you mafia for quite a long time. I have no idea what the point of your story just was. Felt needlessly defensive/explanatory. Btw do you really make a scumread based on that? Like, a real scumread? >.> | ||
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On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? What have we concluded? Even if it's only slightly unfavorable in the big picture to have no communication, it still seems seriously annoying and has the potential to cause instant losses. Especially if the scumteam doesn't know how to play the game enough. | ||
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Did you still have something you needed to ask about the topic? Seems a bit sad that it's only you and me here. | ||
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I still can't really wrap my head around that heavy(?) scumread. It's just too flimsy and hasty. Or was it pressure? In that case I could understand... And even appreciate it. If it's a real scumread, it gets tough to see the logic behind it. | ||
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On November 02 2015 08:54 Superbia wrote: Nothing more on the topic really. It's a dead-end at this point. Have to see how you interact with others/rest of day to fully make up my mind. Hm...... That's a bit of a vague way to put it. | ||
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On November 02 2015 08:56 Superbia wrote: It's a mild scum-read, for now. That's clearer :D | ||
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Next up seems to be me... That's nice. Should be enough time to find two townies by that time. | ||
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Can't say either kita or Superbia left good impressions yet. kita for just ignoring everything and leaving, and Superbia for announcing some long-term scumread (??) based on me saying that the lack of communications should be a mess for scum... Eagerly anticipating Half the Sky's entry... I go to sleep. | ||
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On November 02 2015 18:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I got my yellow cord in capoeira yesterday. Skipped white-yellow so I did much better than expected  Gratz, I also got a green belt in karate (shukokai) quite a while ago | ||
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On November 02 2015 18:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can really easily see where Superbia is coming from. Xatalos made a claim that the game is "nightmare" for scum, and when Superbia questioned him about it the "nightmare" became "somewhat anti-scum", which definitely is not "nightmare" in my opinion aswell. Now i don't think that necessarily makes Xatalos scum, but it makes perfect sense for Superbia to scumread him for that. He didn't even scumread me for that though...... But for the initial post (???) and dropped the scumread to "mild" after my response... That's how I understood it anyway. So basically, the other way around compared to how you described it. | ||
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I just felt like it was a needlessly aggressive attack for something non-telling. Basically, scumreading me for the sake of scumreading me. Can't say I like the way he went about it. | ||
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On November 02 2015 18:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I wouldn't in this game. Ah, I see what you're referring to | ||
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On November 02 2015 18:33 Rels wrote: Easy. Just have to not include him the first team, and if it doesn't go through, vote no when he's leader tomorrow. :/ I guess you're referring to my town/scum activity? Well, it's not a bad point really. Just a bit sad if you exclude me until late for that. I think this meta-case on rayn is pretty excessive too. Wouldn't he want to avoid making dumb questions as either alignment if he hates them? The only thing bothering me really is his weird interpretation of the talks between me and Superbia. Overall I think Kita could be scum so far (overly detached and disinterested in the discussion). Maybe Superbia? His attack on me was pretty odd. I'll refrain from judging rayn hastily this time around so he can be null. Rels seemed okay on activity and focus on interaction, town? Artanis and SL basically didn't do anything yet so null. | ||
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On November 02 2015 20:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ehh... why does he do that as mafia? To cast suspicion on me and remove me from teams maybe? Why would he make me a "long-term scumread" (implying it won't change no matter what I do) based on one pretty neutral post as town? | ||
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Superbia ++, Rels -- | ||
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On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote: ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie? | ||
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On November 02 2015 20:56 Superbia wrote: Your posting style and activity level seems similar to that game. Mind you that I've read/skimmed maybe 7-8 pages, so I'm not confident enough to give you a lot of townie-points. Okay, that makes sense. | ||
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On November 02 2015 21:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you mean this I thought that Superbia called you scum for something you did that he found out to be scummy (which was the case). I also thought that he later on basically wanted you to prove yourself wrong and kept on questioning you for the "nightmare". I do that a lot myself. For example my question to kitaman at the start of the game is purely a loaded question. I guess i was wrong about the follow up but his explanation is even more townier than what i thought he'd say is. Hm... I guess so. I liked Superbia's recent post too. I just found it a bit odd that you so easily townread him with the wrong description of how it went, like you had decided to townread him and then carelessly read the posts themselves. Just in case, I'll say that that's not a declaration of war Just idle thoughts. | ||
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On November 02 2015 21:10 Half the Sky wrote: I have skimmed the thread but when I actually get to the airport and past security, I will comment more in detail. Ill timing for me I know (on the back of a getaway with the husband) but I still have ~9h to be productive. From skimming the thread, Superbia will likely be one of my team members. Artanis/SL are null. Will almost certainly be leaving Kita off. After I clear security, I'm going to read more closely into Xata, Rels, Rayn (and the specific objections). Why Superbia? Overall would be nice to hear reasoning for each pick / non-pick. | ||
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Yes it is It's basically the only crack in your filter, which is otherwise almost unbelievably constructive / leader-like. I hope it's nothing but a simple mistake and that you're genuinely taken this reasonable attitude. | ||
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Although it's still misrepresenting why Superbia scumread me (it had nothing to do with how my stance on the balance "changed" - it didn't really even change though, I just explained it in more detail). It slightly irks me how you defended Superbia by putting... words in his mouth? If you get what I mean. Meh, it's probably not indicative of anything. (I hope ) | ||
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With nightmare, I was referring more to the annoyance and risks introduced rather than the overall balance. I don't think it's ultimately super town-sided. Maybe it was before our discussion in the pre-game, but probably not now? Still glad to be town Didn't really get your last sentence? | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: No, i don't want her to get the easy way out of just giving two reads as if she is mafia she can just name two townies and then say "well i know i am town so i am going of course". Basically it has nothing to do with if she is gonna go on the mission or not, i just don't like the "Palmar approach" to Resistance (or like -- at least how he used to start Resistance games), as you basically exclude yourself on giving reads (other than easy ones) as you "just have to have this much townreads". If you get what i am saying? Well I agree that I'd like reasoning on every player (why they were included or not). Seems pretty easy for scum to play if everyone just claims 2 townreads.. | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:13 Rels wrote: Yes, and that's only today, since tomorrow you're leader and we'll be able to judge you then. I think it's a good idea to not include you to today's team. You still think I'm unreadable right now...? | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: If i am scum here i am either giving a townread to my scumbuddy for no reason (which is stupid) or giving a townread on a townie for "no reason" (as would be the case at that point). I don't do either, especially when the counter-part of the argument is you, who is usually shitty to argue with just based on the fact that you post that much. In either of the scenarios i do not even know how Superbia is gonna follow up, so it is basically a bad play for me to call him town as scum (andd i actually like playing as scum in Resistance -- and i don't play bad). Well, I guess we have different styles then But I think you said something similar in Skype too.. And you didn't really make many townreads in the VS game... So maybe that's a town tell for you. | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:16 Rels wrote: Several things: 1 - "I loved rayn's initial post of calling me town, this is exactly the type of opening I would expect out of town-rayn. I would love to hear some more depth behind his meta-read on Xat. But so far rayn is leaning town." Agree 2 - What is your read now on Xatalos ? 3 - The problem I have is not just "nitpick" buzzword. It's: Hah.... | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:28 Rels wrote: Now I think you're town. You're being active and you meddle with everything in the thread, exactly like in the game I'm hosting. So why not include me in a team already...? >.> | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:35 Rels wrote: Well now I think it's a good idea to include you in a team (= the post before was when I was catching up. Hmm.... So you didn't think my early posts were towny, but the latter ones are? I think I've been playing the same throughout the game though. Or...? | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:41 Rels wrote: The thing is you meddle with everything going on in the thread. That wasn't evident at the start of the game, since, well, not much was going on. Alright... Well, I guess I can see that. How about the way you called Superbia's push bad while saying I'm a null read? If you didn't think I was town yet, shouldn't it be good to pressure me for reactions? | ||
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It's a secret | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:45 Rels wrote: You quoted the fucking post that I had a problem with ??? Well, it was a dumb post by him.... But kind of like rayn's description of Superbia's read, it's not necessarily scummy, just wrong? | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes and he explained why he said both of those things. Why don't you prove why his explanation does not make sense from town point of view instead of arguing the same old thing? I think he explained 1 decently, but did he explain 2 btw? I mean saying that I said rolling scum is not nightmarish. Not that I think it even makes him scum, just wondering why you said both were explained? | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:55 Rels wrote: OK TY. Xatalos does that make sense ? (I suppose scum!rayn wouldn't lie, but lets make sure) Well, yeah, that's a pretty vague description, but I know what he means. I'd say so if it was wrong. | ||
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On November 02 2015 22:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes he did. Initially after you argued with him about it. Hm... Can't find it? | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:03 Half the Sky wrote: Rels is very active as mafia (reference: Drams, SOTW 2) and in SOTW I believe he also did the latter. (This doesn't make you scum btw, I am just pointing the flaw in your argument and I don't recall you having played in either game.) I'm not sure if I've ever played with Rels before. He's really this active as scum? He seems almost hyper-active Well, I guess it's not impossible. His initial read on me was a bit odd and he there may have been TMI in his posts about me/Superbia. | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: The post where Superbia says "now that we have concluded it's not actually nightmarish...." There, as i said how i read that is basically "now you said something really dumb so let's prove how dumb that actually is". The fact is Superbia never uses that as a reasoning to scumread you, not there, not after. Or does he? Where does he say that? I mean, he didn't use my stance "shift" to scumread me (as you described initially), but it was still weird to say that I didn't really think it was nightmarish when I said that it wasn't anyhow horribly unbalanced, but it would still be unpleasant to play as scum. Then he just says that I lied in my initial post or something..?? Again, I don't think that really makes him scum, just a stupid thing to post... IMO | ||
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That's... brave of him | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta: He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way. This is also my best suggestion as well. Which game are you referring to? I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:23 ShoCkeyy wrote: He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission. Here is the page where he gets angry because he messed up and/or things just didn't go his way. (Super mini mafia, you can read through it fairly quickly). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497064-star-fox-64-mini-mafia?page=5 Well, he did get pretty angry as town in the Vanilla game... The one that just ended. Tbh I think it's not alignment-indicative for him. | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:43 ShoCkeyy wrote: How much can I trust you with that piece of information? The one thing I'm getting from you right now is that you're friends with rayn, as to where I see rayn being on the other side of the fence due to my previous encounters with him. Well, see this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?user=raynpelikoneet (he was town) - if you still think he's scum based on that "anger" point, dunno what to say | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:39 Half the Sky wrote: Actually l'll take this a bit further: Town/Resistance: rayn Sueprbia (will review the TMI argument) Town lean: none at this point Null: Xata (will review) Shockey SL Artanis Scumlean: Kita Rels (will review TMI argument) That's where I am now. Hmm... Not the worst list post, I guess, though I wonder a bit how I'm still null.... Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself. | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:47 kitaman27 wrote: lolol I swear I didn't read your response before posting this. 1 down! :D Lol, so you say | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: There are certain situations where not picking yourself as town is the best move you can possibly make. Hm? | ||
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On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote: Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take. And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? | ||
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On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there? Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation. | ||
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On November 03 2015 00:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: After your read on Xatalos, HtS, i would like you to explain how do you get where shockeyyy is coming from with his read. Well, I hope he's currently reading the game I linked. If he comes to the conclusion that you rage regardless, he could be misguided town. If he keeps pushing it, he's probably scum. | ||
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On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right? Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game. | ||
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On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote: No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense? Well, I can kind of agree with that. It didn't really even feel like a "malicious" twisting of rayn's meta, just wrong. | ||
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On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went. You mean he could be trying to make you ragequit or something? | ||
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On November 03 2015 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do you really think that is the scummiest thing he can find in this thread at that point? Like really? Well, it reminded me a bit of my case on you last game (you similarly OMGUSing me both times)Let's see what he comes up with now. | ||
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On the other hand, it'd feel less up to chance if I was included. I'll have to think about who should be preferably dropped... Maybe Superbia? He made some good posts recently, but I still dislike the initial push on me, making me a scumread so casually and continuing the push disregarding what I actually said there. | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:01 Rels wrote: I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before. Hm... Who would replace rayn then? | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:08 kitaman27 wrote: How do you differentiate HTS solving the game as town from HTS setting herself up as a likely nomination as spy by bringing along active players? Were there certain posts that you can point me to that suggest she is analyzing things from only a town perspective? Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point. | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:17 Rels wrote: In which team ? rayn could be town so I'm OK with him in a team; I would prefer you / Xata / me though. I actually thought HTS posted that previous though when I answered What does Xata / Xata / Rels mean btw :D | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:16 Rels wrote: Man HTS you're not reading properly. Are you on a phone ? First you messed up the TMI stuff, then this: No, I'm not implying he's scum in that post. I'm implying that he wouldn't ask a dumb question. I did it when I said "I don't see him asking dumb questions like that". I don't anymore. I did it when I said "But I agree the "do you really have 4 scumreads ?" was more of an accusation that a dumb question." (actually I did it before, but I restated it in the post you quoted) I didn't suggest anything from the post above. But since you're asking, I would like you to elect Xatalos / kita / me. rayn instead of one of the three could be OK too. And since I suppose the next question will be "but you were suspicious of kita!", I liked his recent posts. kita......? | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:20 Half the Sky wrote: Superbia putting players on the defensive from the off is something I've seen him do as town (reference newbie 9) he's done this to me out of nowhere and he's had out of the blue pushes as town to create discussion. When I first read it, it was NAI and then I saw his second post which to me was towny. And then that followup to this make complete sense, to me he came full circle and I saw the explanation for his change on his read whilst reading Xata's filter. I mean if he orchestrated this as mafia, then he's done a bloody good job of it. Also I felt the post you quoted on his breakdown was pretty town, and I argued the context of his argument put him in favour of being town, particularly with how he opened the game. With Superbia being out of the thread, if someone manages to "out-town" him I will certainly take that into account if I feel even more sure of someone else. Hm.... Are you planning to go with the previous suggestion still? It doesn't seem too bad, but I think me being in it would improve the odds. How would you rank your top townreads in general? | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:21 Rels wrote: She's not clearly reading the thread. That's three things she misread, and three things about me too: 1 - TMI stuff (she thought I did it, when it was Superbia) 2 - Disagreeing on rayn (she thought I said rayn was scum, when I said he wouldn't ask dumb questions) 3 - Dumb questions (she asked me why I thought rayn wouldn't ask dumb questions, when I already stated he actually didn't) I may have missed something, but why did you say he wouldn't ask dumb questions if you didn't mean he was scum for it? | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:26 Half the Sky wrote: How are any of these people more town than rayn? Right now as it stands, I'm almost certainly keeping rayn on, and there's no way I'm ever putting Kita on at this moment (not ever, but at this moment) particularly seeing what I see so far, namely where is he taking his questions? From what I can tell he doesn't like Superbia, last post indicates he's null on me and Xata but the difference I'm trying to resolve there is how Superbia is exclusively mafia. The inactives in this game are also making interchangability difficult and that is not even considering my RL situation today. Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too. I just don't think he's certainly town for those... It was still a bit weird how he went "do you really think this is a nightmare for scum?" "yeah, somewhat" "since you don't think so...". Not exclusively scummy like you said, and maybe I'm a bit biased because he did it to me, but... Well, he's certainly not 100% town still | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:30 Rels wrote: Time A: I thought rayn asked a dumb question. Time B: I don't think that anymore. Time C: HTS quoted a post where I cleary said I don't think that anymore, and asked me why rayn was scum for that. A => B => C obv. I'm getting confused about the situation.... I guess I should go examine the posts in question lol | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:45 Rels wrote: Dunno, it's clear in my head. It was actually a few hours ago that I dropped this "dumb question" stuff, since this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=13#257 So that's the post where your stance changed? | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Someone talk to me. I'm lonely  Do you really always play music when you practice capoeira? There were sometimes capoeira events next to us when we trained karate and it was always so loud >.> More seriously though, what do you think of HtS's proposed team? I think it looks somewhat decent... Well, not as sure about Superbia yet, but rayn and HtS could well be town. | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rels/xata/rayn townish, you leaning townish, kita and shockey leaning scummish, don't remember enough about super and sl. You skipped my post? :/ What about Superbia..? | ||
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Can't really think of a better alternative atm... Not many players have done much to establish their innocence yet, so it's lucky there's only 3 players required for now. Will probably vote against teams other than this, although I'm considering rayn/HtS/Superbia... But it still doesn't seem very good compared to the alternative. | ||
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On November 03 2015 00:07 kitaman27 wrote: This seems like quite the over analysis for an intro one-liner. There doesn't have to be spy motivation in every post. Why conclude that he is somehow pushing an agenda where it benefits him to trick town into thinking the spies will get steam rolled. Really a stretch here. More speculation without basis than anything. Ah, I guess this counts.... | ||
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On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. Hm do you still scumread rayn? What's more, me&rayn? Anything else than rayn being angry and us "allying" in the thread? | ||
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On November 03 2015 03:18 Half the Sky wrote: .......annnddddddd that didn't bold for some reason on mobile. ##nominate: Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky Hoping there'll be more to work with when I'm home. Until later lovelies... Well, that seems fine. I think it's acceptable at least. Would be good to hear possible objections now rather than later. | ||
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I guess it wouldn't really hurt to consider it for a couple of cycles. | ||
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He was actually your top scum before? How was this enough to change that? | ||
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But oh well... If this is to happen, then so be it. It's not like it's the final team yet. | ||
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On November 03 2015 07:54 Half the Sky wrote: It wasn't just his questioning of you, it was also his questioning of everyone. Read the posts that he's done on everyone else. Part of this read is based on meta. He is not a high volume poster as either alignment but as town he gets in thread and picks out critical parts of the thread or things that look off to him and drives discussion of it. The question is, do you think his opinion on you or anything else he has, is Mafia motivated. That soft suspicion on me could have been to change the proposed team? Well, gotta say it would have been quite godlike to foresee that you'd pick him instead | ||
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But I guess we'll see how this goes now. | ||
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On November 03 2015 07:59 Half the Sky wrote: I can actually think of one good reason for his lack of activity early on. It is NAI but it explains his lack of interaction with the thread. ? | ||
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Would also like to hear from rayn what he thinks of the team. | ||
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On November 03 2015 08:14 kitaman27 wrote: Why does this apply to myself, but not superbia? He essentially has 1 talking point this game, even after the return to the thread where he brings back up the "nightmare for scum" stuff that has already been discussed to death. Not really sure what you mean here? I didn't say that you only had one talking point, but that you came to make random posts here and there throughout the day without impact on the thread. I think Superbia looks better than you atm because I thought his reasoning for the initial scumread on me was passable and he made decent posts later on, especially the TMI thing about Rels. He was also constantly engaged with the thread... Not really sure how it's comparable to you. | ||
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In that sense, your most recent posts are better... But still. | ||
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On November 03 2015 08:32 kitaman27 wrote: I was hoping that we could nominate sicklucker and we wouldn't need to worry about a sabotage because he'd never show up. LOL | ||
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On November 03 2015 08:02 Half the Sky wrote: AFK for 30m. Or a bit longer? | ||
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On November 03 2015 18:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is probably the dumbest shit i have heard in this game. Yeah... There's almost certainly at least one scum between Kita/shockey IMO. Basically agreed with rayn... Kita has been very vague about everything, and only jumped in to push me (?) when it looked like me/rayn/HTS was going to pass (probably means Kita isn't scum with HTS/rayn because otherwise why bother to do that?). Shockey' push on rayn has been bad and somehow continued even though it was proven that rayn's "anger" shouldn't be alignment-indicative... Probably agenda-driven after all even if it just seemed paranoid at the start. I'd be really interested to see the reasoning for these reads (unless I managed to miss it). Chances are, Rels could just be scum and pulling reads out of nowhere :/ | ||
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On November 03 2015 19:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos i hope you read the thread, especially my posts really carefully before you post. I maybe get what you mean with your proposal... It could work? But it might just be easier to aim for a town team.. It would be more reliant on our skill rather than... Well, you know. | ||
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On November 03 2015 20:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: On the other hand we could just pick three of rayn/Xatalos/Artanis/sicklucker and when the mission 1 passes then add the fourth and i guarantee you we will win the game, otherwise you can call me scum and i won't even resist. But the problem with this is we would need at least one of the two remaining townies to see this and i am not sure if that's gonna happen so i go with the route of proving who is scum then instead. Sorry guys, this will take a bit more time, but i know what i am doing. You're that confident in Artanis/SL? Over HTS? I can kind of see suspecting HTS after that odd team proposal, but if she was scum with Kita, why bother with adding Kita anyway? If HTS was scum and Kita town (lol), then.. Hm, maybe it could be to blame it on Kita? Well, I guess that makes sense. Still I doubt HTS/Kita are both Spies and Kita looks worse IMO. Neither Artanis nor SL has done much yet... I guess that could be taken as not pushing an agenda like you said. I'm not quite ready to call them "obvious town" yet though, because not doing anything could also mean that there hasn't been a reason to do anything (for example, if HTS was scum? - although I don't think it's too likely). | ||
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A bit annoying that we can't talk openly about the pros/cons of either plan... | ||
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On November 03 2015 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Basically Xatalos, the point is the following: 1) If there are three scum, and the plan goes through, we autowin the game. 2) That is not going to happen because kitaman will refuse to follow up with that if there is three scum 3) When kitaman refuses to the plan, he actually has to explain why one of Rels/ShoCkeyy is mafia 4) When kitaman says "no" to the plan, i am going to ask Rels about his read on kitaman, and where does he base that on -- in contrary to the read on you (the "Xatalos does not have scumreads" part -- i will explain that further then) 5) And then all of this doesn't matter, except for we get scum talking about each other and not give bullshit reads 6) And the plan will still be town-favored if there is even 2 scum in that group of three (which i am 95% sure of, unless i am playing horribly in this game). Yeah, I think it's a good way to put pressure on the scumteam. Not sure if you want to talk about the reasons openly like this though? I also thought of a couple other reasons unrelated to those, but I definitely wouldn't want to talk about them this openly.. | ||
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On November 03 2015 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well if kitaman is scum he knows all this already because he is a smart guy. Could be... But his teammates might not, and they have no way to communicate in this game. | ||
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On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote: Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again. Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively. #455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read. He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia. The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through. The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him. I don't think it's particularly town-aligned just that you ask clarifying questions? What's more important is how you use the questions, and he's just kind of ended up nowhere... | ||
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Lol :D | ||
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Do you expect to be 100% townread based on not giving a fuck? Just to clarify, I'd still lean town on you because you didn't really seem to care about your chances of being included on a mission... | ||
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I think shockey didn't read the post very well and thought Kita was giving his reads when he actually listed MY reads? Haha | ||
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(I thought Kita was likely scum at the time and shockey/Rels were also bordering on scum) | ||
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On November 03 2015 22:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: What does this mean? Like if you read someone's post properly (let's assume you can misread and think those are kitaman's reads) and actually think about the motivation behind the reads and the post, you come across the sentence that says "kitaman - scum", that doesn't make you ask yourself "wtf"? Haha yeah | ||
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On November 04 2015 01:28 Rels wrote: A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from town HTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else. This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons: 1. You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot. 2. If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread. 3. Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below. I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post: But that wasn't the case. Sources: Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse: Talking about Xatalos' team: I guess she's really focused on looking good... Don't you think it could be just town wanting to be townread? Well, that kind of contradicts the way she's also okay with not being on missions >.> Then why try so hard to look good? | ||
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But if Kita is scum, then I don't really think HTS is. Why not just ride the HTS/Xata/rayn team and fail it? Seems quite likely to be approved and would possibly cause a ragefight between me and rayn or something lol... | ||
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On November 04 2015 01:41 Rels wrote: Good to see you're answering yourself. p: You're really the opposite of Shockey; each time someone brings a point on someone else, you accept it and change your read of that person. You really are following the thread sentiment to the letter. Can I have a quick read list post ? Atm I think rayn is most likely town. He has a very balanced view of the game and he's following what we talked about on Skype - trying to be more calm and reasonable in the way how he makes reads and pushes things. I didn't really see anything unacceptable from how his reads progressed so far. Not completely sold on anyone else being town right now. One of HTS/Kita most likely is (I'd guess HTS....) and Superbia could be... SL and Artanis could also well be town based on their "free-spirited" posting like rayn said (not really pushing any agenda). The rest would be null/scummy unless I forgot something. See previous posts about Kita and shockey, and you I'm less sure on, but... It's kind of hard to accept what reads you've been pushing (like the rayn push, town reading Kita/shockey over all others...?). While at it, you could just explain all of your reads so that I could try and make sense of it. | ||
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On November 04 2015 01:38 Rels wrote: One sentence each since I'm leaving in a few minutes: Kita makes sense and bring good points. He did that as scum too in a game where he wrecked us; but contrary to that, he's attacking people that are townread by a majority of the town: Superbia and you at the time, rayn just now. Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it. Kita only attacked scummy players in that game then, or what? Didn't you just say that he makes sense as either alignment..? I think there's a fair scum motivation for pushing "odd" reads to manipulate the mission team selections.. | ||
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I agree that Superbia has become less engaged over time. Which is why he really isn't a strong townread at this point. But I stand by what I said about his earlier play. As for you, your recent posts have felt better in general (more engaged / focused on what's happening in the game), but I don't really like either your soft push on me just before the team decision or your current push of me for... well, the above reasons, which are just misrepresenting my reads. | ||
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(btw his last post is kind of weird... said he's voting yes and will explain it later? why not now?) | ||
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On November 04 2015 05:44 Xatalos wrote: Meh, even a short explanation would have been good, even if he was busy. But I hope we'll hear it after this. | ||
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Not really much to say about your other reads since they're pretty... vague? (kita) Nothing else at least really caught my attention. If we go with the safe plan of an all-town mission, then I'd probably pick me+rayn+HTS/Artanis/SL. The last pick depends a lot on what each of them does in the near future. If it's the riskier plan of all-scum team (or at least proposing it - not necessarily passing it), then I think kita+shockey+Rels seems okay.... Will have to consider that more as well. | ||
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On November 04 2015 06:47 kitaman27 wrote: How about shockey then? That one wasn't very vague. Tbh it kinda was... Basically "could go both ways"... Isn't that the ultimate vague read? Tbh the way you made your read indicates that it should mild-strong scumread instead, but... The conclusion is just that. | ||
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On November 04 2015 07:02 kitaman27 wrote: lol maybe it was less vague in my mind. XD The conclusion was scum leaning if it wasn't clear. "I never called you mafia directly" "You're ignoring me when I try to interact with you" "These guys are suspicious because they both jump in to make the same point" "I'm going to watch how things play out before providing strong reads" Would you consider these common themes between his past mafia games and this one to be a concern or is the connection more likely to be a coincidence in your opinion? How do you interpret his post that he hasn't directly called rayn mafia because he doesn't have proof? And he doesn't say things like that as town? If not, then it should be telling. If yes, then it shouldn't be indicative of too much. In either case, it at least shouldn't make him townier, so I guess you could call it a "concern" rather than "coincidence". Not sure what to make of that last sentence? Maybe it indicates that he's looking for reasons to scumread rather than looking for reasons to fairly evaluate? | ||
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Even you didn't accept, HTS? Well, I guess it's good to have more time to consider regardless.. Basically what I was considering was either me+rayn+?(HTS/Artanis/SL probably) OR kita+shockeyy+Rels But I'd definitely like to hear at least rayn's input beforehand... Basically the latter option is good if there are 0, 2 or 3 scum included. Actually that's kind of true regardless of the team.. Well, I'd hope we could be capable to arrive at a team with 0 or 3 scum. | ||
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On November 04 2015 08:06 Superbia wrote: Half-here. Was general consensus no at EoD? Yeah, basically, actually I think kita said he was going to say yes but ended up saying no apparently. | ||
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Not really confident if we could name a 3 scum mission atm | ||
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So yeah, right now I think shockeyy is probably scum (especially if he didn't realize that the votes would be public like sicklucker said..). The remaining scum should be one of HTS/Kita (explained before) and one of Rels/Superbia/Artanis. Tbh Rels hasn't seemed too bad lately considering his constant activity and engagement, while Superbia and Artanis have basically continued semi-lurking for a long time now. Not really confident who there is scum, but that should be resolved as the game progresses. So overall, not really confident in attempting an all-scum team right now. Probably best just to go with the safe plan of me, rayn and.. sicklucker? He hasn't really done much besides the weird OMGUS on me, but just with PoE, the point about shockeyy and overall his "I don't give a fuck" attitude seem more likely from town IMO. Tentatively: ##Nominate Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker (That should work?) I'll be online only very sporadically for a while, but please comment. | ||
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About Rels, it was mostly about the weak meta-push on rayn and his possible TMI (saying pushing me was bad while null reading me?). But I'm not really sure atm... And he did kind of explain the TMI thing too, I guess... | ||
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On November 04 2015 20:35 sicklucker wrote: Its also not me being biased the chart says were the top 3 towns more or less as no one scum reads us. I know you town read artanis so from your pov if your town submitting that team makes sense. No one understands the logic of putting yourself in the team better then me but you also need that team to pass and its only attempt 2 of 5 so people are still very picky like me. Also if the said mission passes it would make a likely town circle of 4 people rather then 3 im not totally sure the mechanics but that seems like a good spot to be in. Yeah the best play now would kind of likely be just going the safe route of picking 3 town and expanding from there. With a bit of luck, we can guarantee a very strong position. | ||
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On November 04 2015 21:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I townread all three of you and we're going to have to nominate three people that aren't me in all future missions, so why not? I guess so :D | ||
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On November 04 2015 21:03 sicklucker wrote: Xata you didnt consider the hero play? I considered, but I can't come to a conclusion about a likely enough 3-scum team... | ||
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On November 04 2015 23:45 Rels wrote: Still following the thread sentiment I see. When I bring up stuff on HTS, you say "mm maybe she's scum." When SL asks to be in the team, you agree and roll with it. I'm not seeing SL is town or scum; but the way you're playing is super scummy. Alright it's time to roll out the meta analysis on you. Will do this tonight when I have more time. I'm confused by this post. Didn't you call me a good townread recently? What's with this "super scummy" suddenly? Besides, I didn't even read SL's post before my nomination... Which you should have noticed by the fact that I hadn't even got to reading Artanis's post before I started typing. Overall, would be nice to hear more opinions on the current proposal. From you, from Superbia, and others. | ||
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On November 05 2015 01:35 Superbia wrote: Kind of nowhere. It's PoE. I expect town SL to be a lot more involved and active. He hasn't really done anything this game. He has done this before as town, but I can read him when he's doing shit, not when he's not. So he goes in the back of the PoE list. Has he / do you expect he would take this attitude as scum? Isn't it actually good for him here that he plays similarly as town? I'm also considering Artanis atm though, liked his recent posts. About you, I'm not quite so sure on. | ||
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On November 05 2015 01:40 kitaman27 wrote: I'm leaning towards reject at the moment. I wouldn't feel comfortable passing a team with you still. I think there are better alternatives than sicklucker, though I'm still kinda null on him so he wouldn't totally kill a team. rayn has also owed me a response for a while, so I'm waiting on that. Preferably I'd be looking at something like Kita/artanis/rayn, though I'm obviously aware that you wouldn't do something like that. Maybe one of HTS/Rels in place of myself if need be (?). Not really comfortable enough with 3 townreads to exclude myself from a team. At least not for you | ||
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On November 05 2015 01:43 Superbia wrote: I'm not sure what SL's scum-play is there days. I think it's usually pretty easy to read him if he's not lurking. The fact that he's not coming up with weird ass logic/strategies this game is troubling. Wasn't his OMGUS thing on me quite weird haha | ||
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On November 05 2015 01:39 Rels wrote: Mm I'll check that tonight. I need to check your filter length compared to your scum / town game, but 10 pages already feels enormous considering we're in N1 in a normal game. Assuming the filter length analysis confirms what I think right now: I would like you to switch sicklucker with kita, shockey, me or Artanis. SL is not doing much; nothing he did was scum indicative, but nominating someone just because he doesn't seem to care is not ideal when there is stronger choice. Kita? Shockey? What are these suggestions :D | ||
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I agree it's weird how he treats me and Rels differently. Easily townreading him and scumreading me based on some detail. Which I already explained, and he seemed to accept, yet the read persists.. | ||
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Personally I'm not that confident atm... | ||
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What I mean is, he didn't really comment on the whole process of HTS's team selection at all. Then he only said "I'll vote yes" during the voting, but actually voted no. Even now I'm not sure of his thought process for all of that. | ||
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On November 04 2015 09:09 Superbia wrote: All right. Listen. You do not genuinely discuss your vote before you vote, you do so after. Mafia does not have a QT, they cannot communicate. Part of the game- and part of the play as town- is to keep mafia in the dark as to what the voting is going to be. There are voting trends that can be gained and analyzed if this is kept as it is. I was hoping people would do this. So please, next time, do not do this. Discuss who you think is mafia during all phases. We discuss our votes after voting is revealed. Hm... I guess it was a reaction test or something then? Well, I guess it's an acceptable reason... Actually it's kind of a townie thought since as scum making confusing posts would only confuse your team further. Still a bit conflicted about him being the third member, but... I'm considering it. Are you sure? I still maybe feel better about sicklucker since he's not really caring about his appearance (which should be especially important as a Spy). | ||
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On November 05 2015 00:45 Superbia wrote: Going to call you scum for the rest of the game probably. Unless something drastically changes. The logic makes no sense. Your push on me implies: - Xat is town (likely at this point- not for you at that point in time) - I am scum (nope). - My agenda behind the push on Xat was to put scum on town-Xat as scum. Probably to divert attention. Here's where the problems are: - You have failed to address my explanation post, even though strong town players have backed up my reasoning (HtS and rayn, do you believe they are both scum?). - I flipped on Xat rather quickly, which fucks over the agenda you proposed. - You have never explained why it is scum-indicative, only in the case where Xat is strictly town, and I am strictly scum, which is back-wards reasoning. This indicates an agenda (i.e. pushing town-me). And this is the most glaring one I just thought of: - In your world, you have failed to argue that I (scum-Superbia) am now going after you (town-Rels). Even though you should 100% know your own alignment (and it should be town, right?), and it would completely support your initial assertion. Seems so... but not completely sure about the progression | ||
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I guess I've felt slightly more comfortable with sicklucker over Artanis because it's more possible for Artanis to just "appear good" as scum (like his latest posts have seemed pretty good) rather than for sicklucker to just "indirectly" look townie like that. It's not a big difference really. And isn't sicklucker pretty townread actually? On the other hand, there are suspicions on Superbia. Like I think Artanis showed suspicion earlier. | ||
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On November 05 2015 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually i think sicklucker is a pretty guud pick. If i assume my reads are even almost correct i wanna know what Rels does tomorrow if the team of me/you/SL passes the mission and Artanis (obviously) adds himself. Kk, well that seems good to me too. Now to look at kita's wall of text >.> | ||
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On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right". Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together. Yeah, I wouldn't really want to be against me/rayn as scum HTS :D | ||
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On November 05 2015 04:36 kitaman27 wrote: Scum reads, not reads in general. They were all town reads at the time. As for the engaged stuff I think I explained how he hadn't interacted with hardly anyone at all at that point, unless you are asking something different? Not all. I did scumread you, for example, and shockeyy/Rels were pushing into scum territory. Whereas you didn't even have a single scumread (or a non-vague read in general) if I remember correctly So your argument is very... hypocritical, to say the least.I did admit that Superbia wasn't as engaged back then as I had thought earlier, and that most of his posts being directed at me may have blinded me a bit. Besides I was mostly talking about the quantity of his engagement, not how many people it was directed to. In any case, your "case" is just nitpicking at this point. If you looked at my meta, you'd see that I'm pretty clearly town already. What you've brought is pretty much either misrepresented or not indicative of anything, such as me being wrong on some small detail... | ||
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WTF 30 pages as scum >.> | ||
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On November 05 2015 06:48 Rels wrote: Alright caught up. Now listen: Someone did a post on Xatalos in my game, listing how he never had more than like 10 or 15 pages as scum, and townread him for it. Xatalos was town (he's dead already in my game). So let's check out! Tbh it's not so much the amount of posts I make, but rather the way I play the game as town. It's pretty hard and dangerous to replicate as scum. One wrong step... But anyways, good luck meta'ing.... | ||
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I've also been considering replacing sicklucker with Artanis or you... I guess there's still time to consider it. | ||
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On November 05 2015 07:17 Rels wrote: Xatalos' average filter length per game 1 phase = 72 hours As town Vanilla Mini Mafia: 40 pages Killed N3 - Average 13.3p / phase Guilty Mini Mafia: 37 pages Survived N3 - Average 13.8p / phase Arnie whatever Mafia: 15 pages Endgamed D1 - Average 22.5p / phase PYP Mini: 19 pages Survived D2 - Average 11.4p / phase I'm a cop you idiot 2: 12 pages Killed N1 - Average 12p / phase GOT Mafia: 27 pages Endgamed N4 - Average 6.75p / phase Nuclear Winter Mafia: 18 pages Killed N2 - Average 9p / phase PTP IV: 10 pages Killed D3 - Average 3.75p / phase British Empire Mini Mafia: 3 pages Lynched D1 - Average 4.5p / phase Paranoia Mafia: number of phase not indicated Newbie XIII: 13 pages Lynched D3 - Average 4.88p / phase Average page / phase as town: 10.19 As mafia Assassination mafia: 5 pages Killed N2 - Average 2.5p / phase Carol of the bells: 14 pages Endgamed N5 - Average 2.8p / phase Titanic: 15 pages Lynched D3 - Average 5.63p / phase Desert: 15 pages Survived N5 - Average 3p / phase Newbie XXVI: 2 pages Lynched D4 - Average 0.55p / phase Newbie XV: don't wanna find out the number of phases. A GOT mafia (not the fucking same): 3 pages Survived N5 - Average 0.6p / phase. Average page / phase as mafia: 2.51 This game: 11 pages in almost a phase OK I think it's pretty clear. p: What's with the "don't wanna find out" ones or something >.> Anyways I guess that's valid to some extent. I think it's more of a general playstyle thing than just the activity though. | ||
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I guess Artanis is looking pretty townie with his recent posts. Maybe it's a "fear read" or whatever you call it, but I just still have a slight trauma about him being the most townish-looking player in one game and ending up being scum... The I'm a cop you idiot or something game? | ||
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On November 05 2015 07:27 Rels wrote: Actually I didn't like his last comment implying he knew my town game. I would prefer kita me or shockey in the team. I'm afraid that's not happening Did you scumread SL? | ||
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Gut still says SL. In any case, it's not like Artanis or Superbia are probable scum either... Will probably go with SL and hope he appears tomorrow to do some good stuff. If not, we can just reject the team and go with Artanis anyway since he's apparently next... | ||
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So the risk is really pretty small. | ||
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On November 05 2015 07:57 Superbia wrote: I don't want to explain. Trusterino pls. What was the reason? | ||
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On November 05 2015 07:49 Half the Sky wrote: Why are you hoping someone will show town instead of someone that already has? The rationale doesn't make sense. Just saying that his behavior has already matched town motivations rather than scum motivations. He's been kind of "doing his own thing", clearly not caring what others think of him. I hope he'll post some good stuff soon(ish) to further establish his innocence or at least not look worse. If not, he can be skipped so it's not a big deal. As for Artanis, the difference is small, but it's mainly the way how he appeared very townish in one of my earlier games and was scum... It's hard to let go of that small doubt. | ||
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On November 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: This one is probably going to get rejected straight out bc there's a good chance SL will just continue to lurk. =/ Artanis would've gotten some votes. Well it's not too bad even if something like that happens. Artanis is next in line for leader anyway. | ||
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Btw I agree that sicklucker's OMGUS thing on me was pretty.... crazy lol | ||
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On November 05 2015 09:46 sicklucker wrote: like i would never put up a team that didnt include me so its hard to be mad at xata for it Yeah.... Looking pretty good atm. Glad that SL has become a bit more active, and the things he says are pretty much spontaneous/carefree. Quite confident that the team is all-town. Let's see.... | ||
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On November 05 2015 12:16 ShoCkeyy wrote: Also brings me to my next point, who ever is pushing for me as mafia. I would say to start looking there - there's definitely mafia hiding there. Btw could you explain why you voted yes on the last team even though it included rayn, your scumread? | ||
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On November 05 2015 05:32 ShoCkeyy wrote: The reason I passed it was because if a sabotage happened on the first mission, then that can just fuel the suspicion even more and more people would start to see what I'm talking about. Also, Idc if people scum read me, I've been playing TL Mafia since the mafia forums first opened ;p What.....? So you WANT scum on the mission >.> | ||
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On November 05 2015 09:03 Half the Sky wrote: With nine being most trustworthy kitaman27 6 ShoCkeyy 2 at most Rels - um, zero? Artanis[Xp] 7-8 Xatalos 7 Superbia 6 raynpelikoneet - 8-9 sicklucker 5 at most (although I'm atm trying to evaluate him on what he does have...) I am aware that Rels, you, Superbia have pretty damned capable scum games so there is some caution with some of the ratings. What do you think of SL now that he's posted a bit more? Btw I keep back coming to wonder how you preferred Kita/Superbia to me last time when you say they both have amazing scum play.,,, | ||
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On November 05 2015 22:07 Half the Sky wrote: Did I miss something? Or probably misread...eh maybe I might have to filter dive one more time then around dinner. Still swamped today otherwise at work and probably will only leave the office 2100 at the earliest. I might have misunderstood him as well, but that's what I got.. | ||
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On November 05 2015 20:59 Xatalos wrote: What do you think of SL now that he's posted a bit more? Btw I keep back coming to wonder how you preferred Kita/Superbia to me last time when you say they both have amazing scum play.,,, Btw I don't think you commented on this? | ||
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Kind of curious how he voted yes last time considering he suspected me and it was a "big deal for him" if the first mission fails... | ||
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On November 06 2015 00:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well he's gonna vote yes since we are all mafia, then we just don't send any of us into next missions and his town wins. EZPZ. Unless he wants to claim scum ofc.. I guess we'll see what he votes.... Should be interesting. | ||
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Didn't he have a read on SL? Checking.. | ||
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On November 06 2015 00:44 ShoCkeyy wrote: Why is rayn and Xata always posting together most of the time? Why is rayn and xata communicating outside of the game? Why is rayn and xata sounding like the most towns people to everyone? Give me reasons. Btw rayn I don't see the problem, only you do and also, I only have like four people town read. L2R. We're not communicating outside of the game? How could we? | ||
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On November 06 2015 00:54 Rels wrote: Read it ? rayn is saying I'm scum 'cause my cases are boring, when it's false in both ways (I can make Superbia-like case as town, I can make evolving push as scum); and he should know it's false, since he's played in the game of the first example (and used a push of this game to explain his meta read on me), and hosted the game of the second example. But both examples end with "he could be tunneled town or scum"...? And I agree, even a mistaken push doesn't really make scum. If you're town, it's obviously mistaken from your POV, but even so it's not scum-making. And it's pretty hard to establish your innocence IMO with your massively active scumgames >.> | ||
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On November 06 2015 00:59 ShoCkeyy wrote: Rels, has rayn and xata ever poke each other before coming to the conclusion they were both town? I don't recall them doing so. Not much? I think I had some small grievance him at the start, but it wasn't really anything major. | ||
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On November 06 2015 01:18 Rels wrote: No. You are either wrong or scum. You cannot think my scum game is PUSHING THREAD LEADERS. So if you're town, go reread my scum games and come back admitting you've made a mistake. If you're scum, feel free to do whatever. I don't think pushing leaders is that hard to do as scum anyway... Even if you don't usually do it, there's nothing inherently stopping you from doing that here... So I kind of fail to see how a disagreement over your meta makes him scum or even suspicious? | ||
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On November 06 2015 01:33 JudgeJudy wrote: When was there ever a HTS/Xata/Kita line up for you to vote for? I'm confused what you are referencing here. Maybe a typo? I don't think that team was ever even talked about. | ||
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On November 06 2015 01:49 kitaman27 wrote: So rayn, I'm trying to understand your read on SL. Your two main points initially were 1) That he would bus as a spy. + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2015 21:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: SL would bus (lol). Basically as scum you want to look as town as possible and bussing is definitely not out of question, since you only need one scum onto a mission. If you, from the beginning, cut your own chances of getting to missions as scum, you basically just lose the game.And i still think SL would just bus. On November 04 2015 13:08 sicklucker wrote: unless someone can come up with evidence that shockey knew votes would be revealed he should never ever ever be on a mission One of the first things he does was explain that your strongest mafia read shockeyy should never ever be on a mission. 2) That he doesn't have a scum agenda. + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2015 19:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: It basically has to do with me not seeing him playing towards anything.. ugh... idk it is hard to explain, i don't see him having scum agenda, or anything like that behind his posting. Same basically goes to sicklucker. On November 05 2015 09:10 sicklucker wrote: like me not voting for ANY TEAM that does not include me On November 05 2015 09:46 sicklucker wrote: like i would never put up a team that didnt include me On November 04 2015 19:44 sicklucker wrote: gonna veto any xatalos unless its like me and rayn On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me On November 05 2015 09:11 sicklucker wrote: im in hero pick phrase. im cooler with xata now. Essentially his strategy this game is to veto any team that doesn't include himself, attack the players that suspect him, unless his mafia read actually nominates him, then he is fine with passing the team. Why isn't this a mafia agenda? The explanation that scummy people think SL is spy, therefore he is town doesn't mean a lot considering in the first quote you say how busing isn't out of the question because you only need one spy. Doesn't the reasoning you gave point to the opposite conclusion? Dunno about that bus thing, but isn't it a quite restrictive scum strategy to only approve teams that you're a part of? Seemed more like paranoid than pushing any specific agenda to me. As scum, you'd want to be flexible so that you can vote for whatever you need to vote. | ||
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On November 06 2015 02:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Like you went from calling him basically confirmed town to very suspicious in 3 hours without anything seemingly triggering you. Maybe a justification to vote no or something...? Kind of hard to follow his reads when they jump around so fast... Especially without any events in the thread causing the changes really :/ Quite wary about including him in a team at this point, I guess. | ||
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On November 06 2015 03:42 kitaman27 wrote: Well it's the strategy I used as spy in Resistance 2. Not saying it's a good strategy or anything, but it was exactly the policy I pushed myself. Lol Well I guess I can see why you'd say that then... But I don't think it's a very good scum plan, and not at all specifically scum-aligned... | ||
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On November 06 2015 03:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: He's already voiced suspicion on SL though, I don't think that'd be necessary. It's weird. Yeah... Dunno. Kind of hard to see the motivation. | ||
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On November 06 2015 08:00 Tictock wrote: Day 1 Xatalos Nomination (Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker) Vote Result Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - YES raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - NO Rels - NO sicklucker - YES kitaman27 - NO Superbia - NO MISSION IS APPROVED Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, and sicklucker will be embarking on Mission 1 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 6 November 2015. Day 2 Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 6 November 2015. Anyways, pretty interesting votes. It was this close so seems pretty likely that scum voted against it... Maybe even all of them? Probably at least 2. shockeyy, why did you vote NO even though last time you said that you wanted a suspicious team to pass so that they would gain more suspicion by failure? Wouldn't this be the dream situation to vote YES in your head when you think me/rayn are the main suspects? | ||
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On November 06 2015 08:30 Fidei86 wrote: Apologies, host miscommunication. Xalatos, Rayn and sicklucker have until next dawn to submit actions. Next nomination phase will not start until end of action phase. In other words, Artanis has 24 hrs from tomorrow at 2300 to submit team for mission 2. Thought so... | ||
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(of course everything would need to be reconsidered if the mission failed, but my head hurts just thinking about what the votes would mean then... so most likely it's a full town team anyway) | ||
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On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. Hmmm... I guess there is an explanation at least.... Of some sort... | ||
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On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3 I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know. And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata. How would it make sense for only scum SL to pass and for the others to reject? Wouldn't they want him on the mission? | ||
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On November 06 2015 08:48 Xatalos wrote: Hmmm... I guess there is an explanation at least.... Of some sort... So if I got this right... shockeyy would only vote for missions where there's one of me/rayn, but not both......? shockeyy? | ||
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On November 06 2015 08:56 ShoCkeyy wrote: Yes, but if you used your brain, you would understand why... If both of you are on a mission together and one mission gets sabotaged, then it's hard to differentiate wether or not you both sabotaged it. If you go on solo missions, rather than together, it makes it easier to see if you or rayn are mafia. Obviously you both got you wanted and are now butt buddies on the same team. LOL I mean, I can kind of understand the principle... But where does this boundless confidence that we're scum come from? Just from the fact that we've defended each other? Wouldn't scum instead want to avoid direct "teaming up" or anything like that? | ||
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On November 06 2015 09:00 Half the Sky wrote: Disassociation. Obviously this violates Ockham's razor but it's something to come back to in the event of a sabotage. Right... That's quite far into the tinfoil land I mean, in the first place, it's a bit hard to organize something like that with no scumQT... | ||
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On November 06 2015 09:01 ShoCkeyy wrote: Why does it matter when a good portion of the town already thinks you're town? Quite likely you're just scum and it doesn't matter much. Still worth it trying to understand your logic (or lack of it), in a way. If you happened to be town, it would also be good to stop the impossible association scumread... | ||
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On November 06 2015 09:05 ShoCkeyy wrote: In the event that the mission passes, can we use this same exact team for mission 4? K thanks. That's mission impossible though, since this is the only mission with 3 people I think. | ||
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Mission 1 - 3 people Mission 2 - 4 people Mission 3 - 4 people Mission 4 - 5 people* Mission 5 - 5 people | ||
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I don't think there's anything super-interesting about it if the mission passes. Most likely it's all-town and even if it's not, it wouldn't really surprise me for scum to pass the first mission. Regardless we should probably just add Artanis to the team... If the second mission passes too, then I think we just won already. The fourth mission requires 2 scum to sabotage so that should be impossible for them to achieve anyway... | ||
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Gotta save this picture though hahaha | ||
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But I still think rayn is town, so it pretty much has to be SL... Quite doubt it would be both. Wouldn't make much sense for scum rayn to embrace scum SL as the third member then... I'll have to relook at them both though... | ||
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What? lol :D | ||
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On November 04 2015 20:35 sicklucker wrote: Its also not me being biased the chart says were the top 3 towns more or less as no one scum reads us. I know you town read artanis so from your pov if your town submitting that team makes sense. No one understands the logic of putting yourself in the team better then me but you also need that team to pass and its only attempt 2 of 5 so people are still very picky like me. Also if the said mission passes it would make a likely town circle of 4 people rather then 3 im not totally sure the mechanics but that seems like a good spot to be in. Not really sure what his read on me was at this point? Still scum? Null? It kind of feels like it's a town lean or something already. And then when he's included with me and rayn, I'm very likely town...? On November 05 2015 09:08 sicklucker wrote: oh i liked the xatalos filter thing. i think we should pass this its very likely 3 towns from my pov Would be very curious to hear about this read progression on me. | ||
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On November 07 2015 08:56 kitaman27 wrote: Why wasn't this a concern when you chose to nominate him? He didn't really call me town until the team was already chosen... That's the oddest part in his filter, I think. Maybe I should have reconsidered voting NO at that point, but I kind of felt like we had just formed a nice towncircle at that point. Clearly that's not the case, so maybe his switch was scum-motivated. Hard to say because he didn't really talk much about his read on me. | ||
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On November 07 2015 08:58 sicklucker wrote: YOU ASS HATS IMA GET YOU Could you explain how your read on me progressed throughout the game? | ||
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On November 07 2015 08:43 Half the Sky wrote: Second point is the conflicting read on Superbia where he was nitpicking Xatalos over scum being at a disadvantage (paraphrasing) whereas Kita took the opposite position on this. Saying that Superbia was stretching it. Does it make sense for a town rayn to read Superbia that way? That's probably the first question to think hard on. We all know that when rayn is town, he's nitpicky over semantics. As mafia....I honestly don't remember. I know the rage level is the same, the last mafia game I recall (TL LXX before he replaced out) I don't recall a lot of nitpicking but I might need to refresh my memory, that game was in March. Ugh. Does anyone else recall any notable rayn scum games where he was close to replicate town play? First wave of reads: Could you explain this point better? I don't really get it. Something meta-related? | ||
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I don't think there's any scum motivation in preventing discussion about that topic. | ||
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On November 07 2015 09:29 ShoCkeyy wrote: Thoughts on me after this first mission eh? I guess you could say *confused*. You voted against it even though there was clearly scum included... I think it's less likely for scum to vote "against their win condition" with no communications or anything in this game, so that makes you more likely town. It's not a huge thing or anything, but a point in your favor regardless. Now it'd be better if you started otherwise indicating townie traits What are your thoughts on the mission team btw? | ||
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On November 07 2015 09:16 Rels wrote: Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3. I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well. | ||
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On November 07 2015 09:45 Rels wrote: Apparently you missed this (lucky you I just read it): rayn never intended to fully push for this all scum team; it was a plan to get reactions, as proved by the sentence "Now the point of all this was a couple of things:". So you cannot award him town points for pushing something that was a simple reaction test. It's still townish to prevent discussion about scum strategy, and he's right that there's little reason for him to push this idea as scum when he was already pretty much guaranteed to be on a mission regardless... And fishing for scum reactions is pretty much the main goal of town, so it's not a bad thing to push this idea in that sense either. Besides, it's not just a completely pure reaction test, there are various reasons for why it's good to at least propose this all-scum team (if perhaps not to vote it through). | ||
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On November 07 2015 09:51 ShoCkeyy wrote: What does Artanis have to do with this mission when it was you, rayn and SL on this mission. That means one of you three have to be mafia. Just considering the options since those who voted YES have an improved chance of being scum IMO, and Artanis was included in that group. | ||
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On November 07 2015 09:52 Rels wrote: Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible. Yeah, things really need some re-evaluation... The scummiest people pretty much voted NO and clearly all the scum can't be in the NO voters since everyone on the mission voted YES... Possibly SL could be the only scum in the YES voters, I guess. It still makes me rethink my life choices >.> | ||
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On November 07 2015 10:06 Rels wrote: Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time. And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup: So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town. That's just unflipped association though? I don't think it should completely remove a scumread on either of you, even if it could maybe cause him think that you're not both scum together. | ||
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SL being the only scum YES voter? Hard to say at this point. 50/50? What makes it hard is that I don't really townread any of the NO voters atm. At least their average towniness seems far below the YES voters :/ | ||
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On November 07 2015 10:10 Rels wrote: So SL is considered town because "all the scummy people don't want to vote for him"; but this consideration don't extend to HTS being pushed pretty hard by rayn's second hardest scumread after Shockey ? Hah Well, I'll let rayn himself answer that one. Didn't he comment on your association with HTS anywhere? | ||
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Could you answer my earlier question? | ||
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On November 07 2015 10:12 sicklucker wrote: xata probably scum for considering that tbh. I dont expect to be on any missions anytime soon only scum would push that Weren't you saying that you'd only accept missions you were a part of? Why give up now and not push to be on missions anymore.......... | ||
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Ok...? :D Keep asking then I guess. | ||
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On November 07 2015 09:00 Xatalos wrote: Could you explain how your read on me progressed throughout the game? <<< SL | ||
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On November 07 2015 10:13 sicklucker wrote: only one im 100% sure is towni n this game is rels Why? | ||
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On November 07 2015 10:15 sicklucker wrote: BECUASE I WAS ON A MISSION THAT JUST FAILED? LOL Why the heck would you, as town, think that it was your fault? >.> If you were town, you should be pushing for the other two, or at least one of them, to be excluded. That mindset is just... hard to imagine for town really. | ||
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On November 07 2015 22:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Okay, fair enough. I have a concert tonight though so my final team will probably be submitted around like 17:45 GMT (+00:00) unless I read enough on mobile to change my mind by the end of it. ##Nominate Artanis[Xp], Rels, kitaman27, Superbia Not very confident on this team... I mean, Artanis, do you currently townread the people there? Why? Or is this just a reaction test and the "final team" will be something different? I'd think it would be better to post your real suggestion well enough before the deadline. For example, the Superbia pick doesn't seem to make much sense. You scumread him here: On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/l8XDS/c5b4b0ac75.png) Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much. Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose. And there's nothing to indicate you think he's town afterwards? Did his NO vote really matter that much? Or shockeyy/HTS just look worse? The kita and Rels additions I can somewhat understand. You already townread them before, and neither wanted the previous mission to go through when it should have been scum's main goal to make it approved... I'm not really sold on the logic that none of us in the first mission should be sent on the second mission though. Since there's probably only one scum on the first team (like rayn said - scum rayn wouldn't probably be eager to send scum SL on the mission with him), I'd think there would be an equal chance of picking town on the team inside or outside the first team (2/3 chance). What's more, SL is quite a lot more likely to be scum than rayn based on play, so all the less reason to exclude us from the mission... Even rayn seemed to agree with excluding us though, but why would that be the obvious solution? I don't really see it. There are just too many potential scum outside of the first mission team. Even if Superbia/kita/Rels all voted NO (townie points, I'll admit), it's not far-fetched for scum to be included there. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure rayn is town and I'm quite clearly town as well, so... Including both of us, or at least me/rayn, would make the mission all-town quite a bit more likely. The scumteam should be SL + 2 out of shockeyy/HTS/Superbia/Rels/kita. I don't think I can vote YES on a team that has most of its members from those. I guess Superbia/Rels/kita are the most likely town out of those (since they voted NO), but still... I'm like 90% sure rayn is town and not at all sure that Superbia/Rels/kita are all town. rayn, would be nice if you explained what's the logic behind excluding us two? Just so that the mission is more likely to be voted YES? I don't think it makes sense to make people vote YES at the expense of more likely including scum :/ We still have several leader cycles after all, and you're even next in order yourself. As for Artanis himself, I'm not as confident on him as on rayn (voted YES and has previously been very townie as scum), but I guess we'll just have to bet on him. It's kind of like how we couldn't afford to lynch him if this was normal Mafia. | ||
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On November 08 2015 00:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Come on Xatalos, Superbia's no-vote is indicative of him being town.... since when do you think like this? Yeah, I guess... I was mostly curious about why Artanis included him over us when he scumread him before this >.> | ||
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On November 08 2015 00:56 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I guess... I was mostly curious about why Artanis included him over us when he scumread him before this >.> And oh yeah, it's just that it feels oddly hard to get townreads in this game, and Artanis at least has felt overall townie. So in a normal Mafia game lynching him would be... Probably catastrophic. | ||
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On November 08 2015 00:54 sicklucker wrote: xata The scumteam should be SL + 2 out of shockeyy/HTS/Superbia/Rels/kita. I don't think I can vote YES on a team that has most of its members from those. I guess Superbia/Rels/kita are the most likely town out of those (since they voted NO), but still... I'm like 90% sure rayn is town and not at all sure that Superbia/Rels/kita are all town. only hts voted yes to pass the mission... I didn't say HTS voted NO? | ||
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On November 08 2015 00:55 sicklucker wrote: xata why am I scum Mainly because I think rayn is town. Also because you still haven't answered how your read progression on me worked until now, and why Rels is 100% town. If you want to convince me otherwise, start from there. | ||
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On November 08 2015 01:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: well let's talk we three. We all know there is at least one scum amongst us. Should be fun | ||
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On November 08 2015 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos who do you actually think is most likely to be scum rn? I don't like the "this guy is scum and then two of these five other people". Three people, most likely to be mafia, ok? SL most likely, then probably shockeyy and HTS (shockeyy for generally senseless reads/votes and HTS for voting YES and otherwise not looking too good... also the way she handled the first nomination). | ||
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SL, my earlier questions? | ||
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On November 08 2015 01:11 ShoCkeyy wrote: Why does it matter if rayn answers your question or not? You both have constantly been town reading each other since the start of the game. It matters for the choices of the next team members. | ||
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On November 08 2015 01:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: You mean this? Because i can't be 100% sure of which of you two is mafia. If you think Shockeyy/HtS/SL is the scumteam why are you not okay with the current team? Like neither of you is okay with the current team so i think the team is all town. Just because I'm less than 90% certain those three are town whereas I'm 100% certain I'm town and 90% certain you're town | ||
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On November 08 2015 01:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: idc. If you think the scumteam is what you say it is it doesn't make much sense for you to think the team is not all town. I guess it's not the worst team overall. I'm just not completely sure SL/shockeyy/HTS are all scum. Whereas I'm 100% sure I'm town myself, and pretty sure you are as well. And if we fail this mission, I think it's pretty much over? | ||
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You think we can easily nominate 3 all-town missions in a row afterwards? | ||
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On November 07 2015 22:28 Half the Sky wrote: Actually I missed this quote about Xatalos' read on you SL. Ugh, the sad part here is that I could see both of you playing suboptimally here too. I don't think Xata should have had the reads he did on rayn, post-failure, the first two quotes he posted are IMO NAI, the second quote especially for anyone of either alignment who knows the game well can talk about the scum-packing strategy. (Kita did as well and I know I disregarded that as NAI and was townreading him on other things.) The problem here is that when I read your filter, I can actually understand your progression on Xatalos. That actually makes Xatalos worse to me and thus of the three, the most likely scum. If you understand it, could you explain it for SL btw? | ||
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On November 08 2015 01:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: no but it doesnt get much harder even if this mission fails. I guess so... But it's still harder to be one step away from defeat than two. Will have to go soon. Anything before I go? | ||
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On November 08 2015 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do they not change their read on Rels based on what i said? Actually Xatalos doesn't even scumread Rels... Or like, he has three other people who are "more likely to be mafia than Rels", yet he STILL wants to downvote the team. Basically I'm a bit more cautious now that one mission failed already. It could also be useful to see one or two vote behaviors before sending in the next team. Overall, I'm just less inclined to vote YES immediately. I guess it's a good thing that you were included on the current mission. I'm still leaning on NO atm since I'm not really confident on kita/Superbia (their main advantage being just voting NO last time). More time should be a good thing as well as seeing how votes go from here. More confident on you than Artanis as well... So maybe your leader phase would have better chances that way. | ||
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Would like to hear overall reads from you both too. Especially kita has been a bit vague with his reads | ||
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On November 08 2015 06:34 Rels wrote: + he's part of the NO crew. I'll admit that the NO vote makes him townier, but pushing a bad idea? >.> He seems generally pretty clueless so I don't think him pushing me/rayn makes him town especially if we're both town.. That just gives an easy excuse to vote against an all-town team if needed? | ||
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On November 08 2015 06:44 Rels wrote: Wow you're the third person I have this discussion with: Arta, rayn, now you. Coincidence ? I think his play makes him super unlikely to be part of any team, so it's suicidal => no scum motivation to play like that. I'm like super tired of talking about shockey actually, it's not like he's part of the submited team. What do you think of Arta scumreading me but nominating me in his team ? Waaait... I somehow thought the team was still rayn instead of you >.> This is worse...... Nothing against you personally, I just think rayn is more likely town than you. It's a bit hard to understand, I agree. Even if you weren't like one of his highest scumreads, he should have still picked rayn there IMO. | ||
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Well played | ||
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Semi-confused by that post from Artanis that Rels quoted, but I guess he'll explain it afterwards. | ||
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On November 08 2015 13:32 sicklucker wrote: shockey/rels/hts and anyone else on #team target I have the 5th nomination. if all 4 are voted down I get the final say and that will probably be the mission team. Just keep that in mind when your making your votes. We can outsmart the scum here You'll be voting NO otherwise then? And including the scummiest people on your proposed team? >.> Sounds like a plan...... | ||
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On November 09 2015 03:01 kitaman27 wrote: It's getting a bit difficult to parse the thread. Would everyone say this is a reasonable reflection of their current reads? You can respond after the vote if you wish. Clarifications would be helpful on the ones with (???) ShoCkeyy rayn/HTS rels/kita/artanis/super Xata/SL (???) Half the Sky Artanis, kita, rayn, SL Xatalos/Shockeyy Super/Rels (???) Rels HTS/Arta/SL kita/shockeyy/super/xata rayn (???) Artanis[Xp] Xatalos Sicklucker 2 scum out of shockeyy/HTS/Superbia/Rels/kita Artanis, rayn Superbia Xatalos//Kita/Artanis/Rels One of SL/rayn + Shockeyy HTS ??? raynpelikoneet artanis, Xata, super, kita, Rels Shockeyy, SL, HTS sicklucker Shockyy/Xatalos/kita artanis/rayn/rels/super/hts As for me I'd say that I'm leaning on SL being the scum from mission two, with Xata being the secondary suspect if SL is town. I'm still leaning mafia on Shockyy and the remaining mafia would be in a pool of HTS/super/Artanis. Btw why am I missing from this list >.> Overall, I'd be much more interested to hear your own reads rather than listing others' reads. | ||
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On November 09 2015 08:26 Half the Sky wrote: LOL I missed this first go, read the bottom two lines of his post! ?? >.> | ||
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On November 09 2015 07:59 Fidei86 wrote: Day 2 Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination (Artanis[Xp], Rels, Kitaman27, Superbia) Vote Result Half the Sky - NO Xatalos - NO Artanis[Xp] - NO raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - NO sicklucker - NO kitaman27 - NO Superbia - NO MISSION IS REJECTED Day 2 raynpelikoneet's Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 9 November 2015. Some players just seem to vote NO no matter what (Superbia, kita, Rels) and shockeyy is the ultimate hipster by always voting against the majority >.> Since the result is so one-sided, I don't think there's too much info to gain...... At least at first glance. I guess it could be useful to demand proper explanations from people like Artanis suggested (who didn't already explain). | ||
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On November 09 2015 08:26 Half the Sky wrote: LOL I missed this first go, read the bottom two lines of his post! Ohhh yeah his own reads are there indeed (although that's a pretty crude summary.....). I guess I just magically disappeared from the post otherwise | ||
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I actually hope it's something good that he proposes. The next leaders are shockeyy, Rels and SL.... Kind of hard to believe an all-town team would come from them considering their reads, even if there might be town among the three. I still think the team should include myself+rayn.... Maybe, maybe I could accept a team without us if the reasoning is very good. SL should never be on the mission, neither HTS IMO... And shockeyy would be a huge risk as well. Any other combination could theoretically be workable..... I guess we'll have to gamble on the nulls. | ||
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Meanwhile Artanis does indeed suffer from the YES vote, much like HTS, especially because they weren't on the mission team themselves (I think it's more natural to vote YES if you're included on the mission than if not...). Just considering that, it might actually not be the best idea to include either of them on the next mission.... | ||
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On November 09 2015 16:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You think Superbia looks the best between Superbia/Kita/Rels? He's actually the one I'm questioning the most from my townreads. He has looked pretty good at times, but the inactivity is worrying. Also, given how you've butted heads with him a lot, where does the strong townread come from? I know you read him as town earlier, but not strongly and he hasn't really done much since other than vote no. Honestly there's no team I'm confident in that will pass at the moment. Need more time. The team I'd consider having the highest chance of success would be me/Rayn/Kita/one of Xata and Superbia. Well, voting NO to the failed mission is already pretty good in itself. I haven't ever thought of him as scummy after the very start either, unlike the other two, so I'd say he's probably the best pick out of the three... The only worrying part about him is his lurking, I agree. | ||
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On November 09 2015 11:16 kitaman27 wrote: You were there. I did miss listing Artanis though. I'm still not totally sure what he is thinking based on the most recent post that he didn't want his team to pass. My reads were at the bottom if you missed it. Right now I'd prefer a team something like kita/rels/rayn + 1 of HTS/super/Artanis. I'm still not sure which of those three I'd bring along. Still don't see myself there >.> Would be nice to hear your reasoning too, not just the conclusion? | ||
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On November 09 2015 10:20 sicklucker wrote: anyway if your town you vote no here because its dumb to let a guy who failed pick the mission I don't think rayn failed though. But I guess you're voting NO regardless so.... | ||
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On November 09 2015 20:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Do you have any evaluations from how the vote went down? Which vote? | ||
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On November 09 2015 20:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: So that was the only team that had a reasonable chance of going onto a mission. ##Nominate: raynpelikoneet, sicklucker, Half the sky, Shockeyy Quite a curious nomination. Another reaction test, or you don't think any other team can pass at this point......? | ||
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I'll at least never vote YES. Even in the worst case where you're scum, both you and SL are included, so it must fail...... | ||
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On November 09 2015 21:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 10/10 team, will pass. The one we just had that failed. I'm not quite sure what else it could've possibly been? Oh, I thought you perhaps meant the failed mission, not the recent nomination. I don't think there's much to it. It was going to be down voted anyways so scum could have done pretty much whatever they wanted? | ||
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On November 09 2015 21:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: So like, Xatalos is stubbornly trying to push a team that has both me and him in it, when at least half of the people in the game think one of us might be scum. HtS doesn't even read the game (or apparently any game she has ever played) so i don't see any reason i should pay any attention to what she posts. Shockeyy hasn't made a single logical conslusion in this game, and Artanis now for some reason thinks Xatalos is mafia instead of sicklucker because of what Shockeyy says. sicklucker doesn't wanna say yes to any team he doesn't pick himself, doesn't scumhunt and just hides behind his heuristic. Superbia gave up a long time ago on this game. So yeah, i am just gonna vote yes to any team that gets picked and/or wait for SL to present his team and if the team is all town we win -- or if the team fails i am gonna blame the dude who picked the team. Because that's the correct play, right sicklucker? Basically this game cannot possibly go anywhere so i don't really see any reason why i should give any fucks rn. Tbh I think this nomination is probably the only one where we have a chance anymore.... But I guess quite a few scumread you now so I can understand why it seems difficult. Then should we just try voting for a team or something? | ||
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On November 09 2015 22:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Surely there's still something they want to show with their votes though? Do you think that the votes have no meaning whatsoever? I think the team kind of lost its legitimacy when you put your own scumread in it? So since even you were apparently going to down vote it, I don't think it could have really been made to pass...... rayn seems to have given up and just votes YES on anything, SL votes NO until he gets to pick the team, shockeyy's vote makes no sense.... Meh. Did you get something interesting out of it? | ||
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I guess something like me+you+Superbia.... And.... One of Artanis/Kita/Rels, not sure which would be best yet. But I'm not sure if that would have high chances of succeeding.... It's hard. Maybe if people could somehow consolidate on a reasonable team that could gain the majority.. | ||
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On November 09 2015 22:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Eh, I don't think I was super clear that I was going to downvote it? Rels didn't seem to understand my intention behind it at least. And like I said, I do think that it says something about SL. Well hard to think you would vote YES while your scumread was in it? The SL thing.... I guess so. | ||
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What would need to have changed in the previous suggestion for it to have been YES voted by you? (As for me: preferably Kita/Rels replaced by me/rayn) | ||
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As for me I'd say that I'm leaning on SL being the scum from mission two, with Xata being the secondary suspect if SL is town. I'm still leaning mafia on Shockyy and the remaining mafia would be in a pool of HTS/super/Artanis. | ||
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On November 09 2015 22:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The team I'd be most comfortable with was what I suggested but with rayn instead of rels. I figured it wasn't going to pass though, and there's still doubts in me about Super, which is why I did what I did. K... Who would you replace super with? | ||
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And HTS.... There's just no basis for your push on me. You say I "TMI"d rayn when the team failed, but if you didn't miss it, I townread him pretty heavily from like the latter part of the first cycle already. Why would I drop the townread over SL after the failure? Granted, rayn is a bit more likely scum now, but I still don't think that's the case, and SL has looked worse after the failure IMO. By that same logic, rayn also still townreads me........ | ||
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On November 09 2015 23:28 Half the Sky wrote: Mission 1 failed. It was explicitly stated there was one sabotage by the moderator. There HAS to be ( (at least, but most likely) one scum between you/rayn/SL. If you are town, and you know you are town, and especially on the back of a heavy townread on rayn, the bolded doesn't make any sense >_< Is rayn scum too then for not dropping his townread on me? | ||
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On November 09 2015 23:33 Half the Sky wrote: What you are saying right now doesn't make any sense. rayn had his reasoning for his reads, he had always townread you and scumread sicklucker - but your reasoning isn't flowing at all. .......wtf 1) I heavily townread rayn, somewhat townread SL 2) rayn heavily townreads me, somewhat townreads SL 3) mission fails 4) we both still townread each other, scumread SL 5) HTS says Xata is sure scum, rayn is sure town for these events 6) ?????????????????????!?!!!!!! | ||
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On November 10 2015 03:08 Half the Sky wrote: More on why Xatalos is a spy - Mission 1: Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker - vote passed 5:4, mission failed. Rayn suggested a team of himself, sicklucker (TWO FROM THE ABOVE FAILED MISSION!!!!) me, and Shockey. And then Xatalos turns around and says "this nomination is the only one we have a chance"?????? When in HIS world he's town and we know for a FACT one of these two failed, he's saying we have a chance? Are you remotely kidding me?!?!?!?!? That is one atrocious response if I've ever seen one. .....You're not even reading anymore. That wasn't obviously about rayn's proposed team there, but about this nomination overall (considering the next leaders we have). Your push is still making no sense.... On November 09 2015 23:36 Xatalos wrote: .......wtf 1) I heavily townread rayn, somewhat townread SL 2) rayn heavily townreads me, somewhat townreads SL 3) mission fails 4) we both still townread each other, scumread SL 5) HTS says Xata is sure scum, rayn is sure town for these events 6) ?????????????????????!?!!!!!! | ||
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On November 10 2015 03:57 Vivax wrote: Superbia started out the game great and Xata looks like scum, I have to agree with my predecessor. That's what I gain from reading the start of this game. Although for me it's more of a toneread on Xata around the phase where super stops posting and kita joins the game. These are all consecutive posts and they look kinda nervous to me. Xata just came out from an extended discussion with my slot, and that's how his posts look (like he's worn out). Him talking about kita as if it mattered about his alignment that he didn't reply within ~30 minutes, dropping a series of exhausted posts that look like he's crying out to someone to end his life. That's a bit exaggerated but tl;dr: This post series I don't like. They just look fake and are kinda apathetic. The way he thinks of "oh shit I need to get some reads out now" right after the convo when only 3 players posted look like he feels forced to do that. + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2015 09:00 Xatalos wrote: Well, I mostly hope Half the Sky would appear. A great deal will depend on her alignment. Such as if her proposed team can even be considered. Next up seems to be me... That's nice. Should be enough time to find two townies by that time. On November 02 2015 09:02 Xatalos wrote: Damn... Am I just antepenultimate because I forgot to claim penultimate? On November 02 2015 09:06 Xatalos wrote: kita, did you get anything out of our furious exchange just now? On November 02 2015 09:19 Xatalos wrote: Either there's an elaborate essay incoming or that was a really weak entry.... On November 02 2015 09:29 Xatalos wrote: I guess there isn't anything. Can't say either kita or Superbia left good impressions yet. kita for just ignoring everything and leaving, and Superbia for announcing some long-term scumread (??) based on me saying that the lack of communications should be a mess for scum... Eagerly anticipating Half the Sky's entry... I go to sleep. And I like rayn for townreading my predecessor and bashing heads with Rels on that matter. I think I want to TR rayn for that. Read the game besides the first posts before making accusations please....... | ||
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On November 10 2015 03:08 Half the Sky wrote: More on why Xatalos is a spy - Mission 1: Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker - vote passed 5:4, mission failed. Rayn suggested a team of himself, sicklucker (TWO FROM THE ABOVE FAILED MISSION!!!!) me, and Shockey. And then Xatalos turns around and says "this nomination is the only one we have a chance"?????? When in HIS world he's town and we know for a FACT one of these two failed, he's saying we have a chance? Are you remotely kidding me?!?!?!?!? That is one atrocious response if I've ever seen one. I just can't understand why you even bother pushing this bullshit. This whole post is just completely false. As was your previous reason of me "TMI'ng" rayn after the fail. | ||
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(worth noting that the meta arguments are still lacking because there isn't anything of use there, instead some stupid stuff has been made up.....) | ||
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It's just saddening that even though that would improve the chances of success, it would also decrease the chances of the team being approved :/ And then there's shockeyy/Rels/SL's teams coming up.......... I doubt shockeyy/Rels's teams would either get approved or succeed, and SL would just automatically make a failing team... Sigh. | ||
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On November 10 2015 05:42 Half the Sky wrote: If he meant he would drop the townread on rayn over sicklucker then I completely misunderstood the sentence. In any case, the contention sicklucker, Artanis (to a different degree if you read his latest posts) and myself are raising is not the exact townread, not THAT he is or isn't townreading rayn or sicklucker. It's HOW that read came about and more specifically the reactions to the mention of sicklucker in the discussion. There was practically zero scepticism demonstrated AFTER the failure. If you look at the questions that people are throwing at Xatalos (particularly Artanis) you can see the cracks in his stances. I'd quote it atm, but I'm not at a pc. :/ I also literally explained this very same thing already. But you're not even reading my posts anymore so whatever..... | ||
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On November 10 2015 06:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Isn't it annoying when someone does that? Also no, i am not gonna change anything in the team. Haha Although when you encounter these blind tunnels, people usually at least try to engage with you or something. HTS just ignores my posts and repeats the same things, or invents even more ludicrous arguments.You think this is the best team or did you just give up? | ||
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On November 10 2015 06:34 Half the Sky wrote: I'm not the only one seeing problems with your position. Try again. Don't care whether or not I'm going on a mission, this game has been 5v3 for awhile now, but I can still see to it that you don't get on one yourself. Has anyone responded favorably to your arguments? No. SL just doubted me/rayn because well, he had to based on the game logic. Nothing to do with your posts. If you wanted to be taken seriously, you could start by reading my like last 2 pages of filter. | ||
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Isn't voting NO on everything until his own leadership just refraining from giving away information... His votes will mean nothing, and his own (failed) team won't be voted for either..... So there really isn't any information to be gained either from his own votes or the formation of his own team.... | ||
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On November 10 2015 08:20 sicklucker wrote: holy shit i might vote yes just to see if the scum team is like xata art +1 On November 10 2015 08:08 Half the Sky wrote: So looks like we need to see more from Vivax and then will need to tinfoil Kita, but at the moment (operative words being at the moment) I would upvote this team. Kita, any followup, shout (#2183). I warn you as I did Rels, work is going to bury me tomorrow (0800-2200 again FML), but I'll do my best. Good night. I was considering voting YES (since the next leaders wouldn't most likely suggest anything better than this), but these endorsements really give me the creeps....... Both SL/HTS being excited about the team..... Geh :/ Kind of feels like there could be scum included after all. Thoughts, rayn? | ||
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On November 10 2015 16:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not sure what's unclear about that. Yeah, that's never going to be the case. I thought all three of you were pretty scummy. Given there's always at least one scum between Rayn/Xata/SL, it is fairly unlikely for there to be three scum in there. Also I like Vivax so far since he seems to be accusing people left and right, which he likes to do as town. I think she explains both points well, but neither of them make sl town; they just make the points NAI. His posts can be interpreted in multiple ways, and sicklucker does like to talk about mafia strategy a lot as either alignment. I disagree that he's concerned about giving away information though, that's something I really haven't seen from him. What happened to your plan of nayvoting everything until it's your turn? Sorry, I still don't get it. I don't think there's any too deep meaning with the last mission's votes since almost everyone was going to down vote it anyway (even you, the proposer, since you scumread Rels in the team). | ||
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On November 10 2015 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Don't care. I trust on my reads more on to what mafia might wifom. You seemed very confident in the earlier me/SL argument though? You mean they could be trying to reproduce that argument now....? I guess it's possible. Still concerns me quite a bit.... | ||
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On November 10 2015 22:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know why you would be "picking between ebola and AIDS" if you can't even make a case on why i should not include kita/Rels on my team... Mainly just that I'm not that confident on them + SL/HTS endorsing this team. It's not like it's the worst team in itself. Just not the best, and endorsed by the two most likely scum :/ | ||
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On November 10 2015 22:49 Rels wrote: Xata, why are you suspicious of me ? Why are you suspicious of kita ? The NO votes look good for you two, it's just not on the level of a confident townread. Kita for being so vague and non-committal throughout the game, and you because your recent scumgames looked pretty similar to this game too (very active and engaged..). Now that I think about it, though, scum HTS would have had no good reason to put scum Kita into the first team.... So that gives kita a bit more credibility at least. | ||
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On November 10 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote: Just to be clear, am I the Ebola or the AIDS in this metaphor? This is very important. Ebola | ||
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On November 11 2015 00:03 kitaman27 wrote: Why do you say SL was more solidly townread? Of the people who accepted the mission: Xatalos - Town read rayn/Xat more than SL Half the Sky - Town read rayn/Xat more than SL raynpelikoneet - Town read rayn/Xat more than SL Artanis - Town read rayn/Xat more than SL Even if you include the rejects votes, there wasn't a huge amount of SL support. If anything, this points to a scum Xat wanting to bring along SL as the fall guy, not making a "ballsy move". You suggest that it is a point in his favor, but I'd say that it suggests he prioritizes self-inclusion over mission success. A few other people have already pointed this out, but I don't think this applies very well considering voting no unless he is included has the opposite effect. He doesn't have to worry about his teammate's inclusion at all if he can include himself. Yeah... Especially that first part is what almost made me smash my head on my keyboard when she claimed that SL was more solidly townread than me earlier..... | ||
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On November 11 2015 00:21 ShoCkeyy wrote: Uhhhhh I actually did????? That's the fucking problem. None of you read anything lol What does this post even mean? kita said "why did you", and you respond with "I actually did????". | ||
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On November 11 2015 11:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: For most people you, HtS, you are just a pain to play with as a player and as a human being. Yeah, I guess referencing marv's lashing out on me in the Vanilla game.... Tbh he made many similar posts.... But I also provoked him by blaming the mislynch on him, so I don't really hold a grudge or anything. I don't think this post should have been made though, even as a reference. | ||
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Meh, I guess a fail is more likely. Even if that happens, it would at least tell us quite a bit about the potential scumteams (kind of like solving a Mastermind puzzle ). | ||
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Well, it's more PoE than anything really. Meaning that I thought rayn and Superbia looked better than you two. I didn't even call you two scum there Vague as in being evasive about his own reads and mostly asking questions / taking a pretty neutral stance on things. | ||
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I guess this makes rayn more likely town again, even if the reason is silly (he wouldn't probably feel the need to rage risking a modkill or something as scum here......). | ||
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HTS, if you were town, you would have already rethought over some things after your 100% townread rayn called your arguments bullshit.... And I showed why that was the case. | ||
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quite a useless assumption really if you want to make it "scientific" | ||
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On November 13 2015 08:02 NocturneMage wrote: Shockey's Nomination Phase - End ShoCkeyy has nominated the following team for Mission 3: (1) Shockey (2) Vivax (3) Half the Sky (4) sicklucker Please PM your votes to Fidei86 and Tictock. You may switch your vote as often as you like, until the deadline. Deadline is in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00), 13 November. What was the team you wanted to make shockeyy...? At least I very much doubt there isn't scum in this team, with it including both SL/HTS.... The scumteam is probably SL/HTS/Rels at this point. SL even just for the first failed mission, HTS for just making really crappy reasons to scumread people (as noted by basically everyone who read her posts so far) and Rels for voting YES last team when he still scumread people on it.... I think shockeyy and kita just have to be town by PoE. So I think that's about it... Unfortunately Rels is next, but perhaps kita could be able to put up a decent team. | ||
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On November 13 2015 09:03 kitaman27 wrote: He appears to be reading the thread, he is speaking logically, he is looking for contradictions and pushing them in the thread when he is ignored. Most of the stuff he has been saying makes sense. He has the opportunity to jump on shockeyy as the low hanging fruit, but chooses not to. In resistance, mafia are essentially forced to choose their scum reads based on process of elimination. Not going after someone like shockeyy when everyone else scum reads him seems townie. He has the opportunity to align himself against Xata, but posts the filter length analysis that makes Xata look pretty decent. If I remember correctly, this was posted prior to the mission one failure meaning that he was making a player who is up for consideration look decent, while lessening his own chance of inclusion. This doesn't apply if it is Xata + Rels as the spy, but I thought the other stuff outweighed the exception. He attacks rayn at several spots where rayn is widely seen as town, costing himself town cred. The safer option would be to sheep him there. His reads are frequently changing. He starts the game scum reading myself, rayn, and super. He then shifts to town reading us, while scum reading other players. He goes back and forth on certain players, which I feel is townie. I haven't had the opportunity to look at the games HTS linked me yet. I will when I have more time. Could I be wrong about Rels? Yeah, but that could apply to anyone. Right now I think he's town. Hm, what about his last vote? | ||
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Basically HTS started the game scumreading Rels, but went to townread him when it mattered (he was nominated).... Both have also had some of the most shady votes around (HTS upvoting every failed team without being part of them even, and Rels upvoting the last failed team when logically he shouldn't have.....). | ||
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On November 13 2015 09:25 Coagulation wrote: so when do we vote? Now And in secret, by PM'ing the hosts. | ||
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Sorry about AFK'ing all day today. Ended up playing games with my brother all day. Slightly demotivated about this game anyways after events with rayn/HTS so it wouldn't have been the most terrible result if we just lost today. Still have to survive through three missions.... Not really confident on teams that would come from Rels or SL, so most likely voting NO on their missions. Seems like there's time to decide the team after voting information from Rels/SL teams and such though, but I'll try to get some work done tomorrow. Recently HTS's posts have been on some sort of subconscious ignore list already, so I guess I'm done trying to even reason about them. Someone asked if I should evaluate her again since some have started townreading her, but I just can't accept her posts to rayn/me could have come from town. They're simply grasping at totally far-fetched reasons to justify suspicion. I guess I'll commend her activity. The motivation to play is there regardless of the motivations for doing things. Anyways, it's 6am here atm :/ gn | ||
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On November 14 2015 04:50 Half the Sky wrote: You need to ask yourself why mafia are NOT trying to bury him (note: I'm not saying this makes you mafia) when he was on both failed missions. I don't know if you are biased somewhat because of how rayn was treating/reading you earlier this game but if you ignore everything he has said and done towards you this game and focus on the way he was reading others, ask yourself if that come from a town or a mafia mindset. (I realise Coag's inactivity isn't helping atm, but that is a separate issue.) Tbf you did try but it didn't work out well | ||
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On November 14 2015 18:31 Vivax wrote: You funny spy ;> Noone who was in the failed second mission voted yes, so if SL is scum as you say, there's 1 spy who decided not to win the game by voting yes cause ... ?????? I mean.... For the first failed mission, they all voted NO too (except rayn). So.....??? And since when did you scumread me btw? | ||
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On November 14 2015 19:08 Vivax wrote: Since you claimed that 1 spy voted no for some odd reason when they win after sabotaging one more mission. By that logic, why would scum ever vote NO to a fail mission? But clearly they have (unless rayn/Coag is scum which I doubt). In any case, it's not like it's unthinkable to do that to confuse town into thinking exactly like you are / to minimize risks by not betting everything on passing a particular fail team. | ||
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On November 14 2015 19:15 Vivax wrote: But actually I have 1 dumb question, didn't see the answer in the OP. If two spies are on a mission, are there 2 sabotage attempts even outside mission 4 or always just 1? Addendum: This doesn't apply if rayn was mafia. Actually my tinfoil is starting to tingle, cause everyone on mission 2 voted no to a sabotaged mission except rayn himself, and I really didn't get why he was scumreading Shockey. But if he's spy it makes sense cause then he was able to replace a no-voter with himself as spy. See pre-game. Scum can choose to sabotage or not, so there should be only one sabotage regardless of how many scum were on a mission. | ||
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On November 14 2015 20:13 sicklucker wrote: also if we exlude coag all 5 of the remianing players I believe are willing to townread and vote each other so their is not much more to talk about. Thats the five guaranteed votes we need to win the game and have auto. GG guys I think im done posting other then voting Its auto. If we all stop talking mafia should concede its a solid strat imo lol | ||
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On November 14 2015 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Uh, why would I start doubting you harder and position myself to vote no if HtS is my scumbuddy, and why would HtS try to make you townread me instead of just going with the team that was on there and fail it herself? Makes no sense. Anyways, as I said, I'm yayvoting any team that doesn't include Xata/Rels/Kita. I'm sure Vivax isn't scum because he could've just yesvoted to win the game and I'm pretty sure he knows it. I'm sure HtS is town for reasons mentioned in this post plus everything I said before about how she doesn't seem to be playing towards a scum agenda at all. I'm pretty sure Shockeyy isn't scum (though he might actually be the one I'm worried about most if I'm wrong on any of them) because he doesn't have any kind of scum motivation and seems way too derpy for it. I'm quite sure SL isn't scum because he's going tryhard still when it's probably already in the bag for him if he's scum and suggesting a mission without himself on it too. That, and Kita/Rels/Xata all looking pretty awful helps. How am I very awful btw? rayn probably knows me the best around TL Mafia and said he was more sure about me being town in this game than about anything else. You also say that he's town so how does that lead to me being scum? | ||
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On November 14 2015 20:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh and I'm quite amused that Kita's PoE basically left him with having to scumread himself now that Vivax is basically confirmed town. I don't think that's how it works :D hahaha | ||
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On November 14 2015 19:47 Vivax wrote: Yea I'm not that sure on Coag myself. That's why I'm asking if 2 spies on a mission both become visible when sabotaging it. Cause I have the scenario in my head where rayn sends himself with teammate Xata, then blames it on you, then sends himself again along with 3 no voters and scumreads Shockey to have an excuse to send himself onto another mission (he who was a yes voter in every mission scum sabotaged) in order for it to fail. I really don't get how I became scum suddenly for that post. Like, I guess it makes a slight amount of sense if you also assume rayn/Coag is scum, because then it's indeed possible scum *could* have voted like you assume during this game. But if rayn/Coag is town, scum clearly haven't voted in any coordinated fashion (just look at the voting records). So either me+rayn/Coag are scum together (and I'd have sent rayn/Coag with me on the first mission.... really...?) or your argument for me being scum makes no sense. | ||
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On November 14 2015 19:19 sicklucker wrote: also vivax said in thread he was voting yes. so it was very clear there was going ot be 4 town votes. the surprising part was he didnt but ya. if kita/rels etc are scum with me they probably vote yes here. I have literally no partners that make sense in the game except maybe artanis. literraly none. I am confirmed town. ALso xata has literally given up on this game anyone with more then 1 game experience can see this. Haha :D In my most recent town game (Vanilla mafia) my activity dropped considerably as the game approached its end as well. Not really even sure why, somehow became demotivated. And by that logic, players like Coag/shockeyy in this game who mostly lurk would be 100% scum... So yeah.... | ||
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On November 14 2015 21:02 Vivax wrote: Xata, who was the spy on the mission you issued? SL probably. I agree that rayn/Coag has the worst mission/vote record (besides HTS), but other things still point more to him being town (his balanced attitude to the game as opposed to his very aggressive/agenda-driven attitude as scum in VS, and his lack of care for getting modkilled etc.). SL also has things against him like first scumreading me, then suddenly townreading me when I put him on the mission with me (meaning he could easily sabotage the mission just by townreading me at that moment). | ||
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(which includes YES voting every failteam without being on any of them herself, and also YES voting the very likely failteam just now). | ||
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HTS is the most likely other scum yeah. Her terrible vote record and bullshit reasons to push me/rayn after the first fail should be reason enough. The last scum I'm not sure about atm. I thought it was Rels, but then he voted NO to the team just now....... Hm. I guess it could be Artanis as well. His vote record approaches HTS levels of bad if we include this most recent vote. It's probably not you, also considering the most recent vote as well. Meh. But SL/HTS I'm like 95+% are scum at least. | ||
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On November 14 2015 21:17 Vivax wrote: Xata why did Rels vote no if SL is mafia? I take it your reads are SL/HTS/Rels So you aren't making any sense right now. Well, I just talked about that.... Maybe I should do some kita-esque combinatorics with SL/HTS. | ||
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1) There's at least 1 scum between Coag/SL 2) There's at least 1 scum within Coag/Rels/kita/Vivax 3) There's at most 1 scum within HTS/Artanis/shockeyy (unless Coag is scum) Those are clear facts... Now it gets a bit more tricky, but hold on. 4) HTS and kita probably aren't scum together (because HTS put kita as a preference to her own team - just why if they were both scum? - makes more sense if kita was the one to be blamed afterwards) 5) SL and Coag probably aren't scum together (again, just why would rayn/Coag endorse SL to the team then?) Hmmm... The most sensible combinations seem to be: SL/HTS/Rels SL/HTS/Vivax Other combinations don't make too much sense. But then again, Rels voted NO to the team just now, and I doubt Vivax is scum atm. I guess I *could* be wrong on one of HTS or SL. I'll need to think about this.... | ||
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On November 14 2015 21:24 Vivax wrote: You don't have to do anything. We send the same team which is a confirmed town team cause all people from mission 2 no-voted it. Just that this time I vote yes. Kita is mafia. Xata is mafia. Last mafia is either Coag or Rels. Send anyone else, win the game. Concede plz. How is it confirmed? I just showed you that it's likely there was at a NO scum voter in the last failing team which passed anyway. | ||
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It would just mean that SL would be likely town and Rels/kita/Vivax would have much reduced chances of being scum (again, since rayn/Coag put them on his own team willingly - just why if there was scum included?). It would be quite likely that there would be 2 scum among HTS/Artanis/shockeyy then. Actually, I guess it would kind of fit better than SL+HTS+?. Meh... If rayn was scum all along, he really managed to fool me. And if we assume HTS would be town (which I really just refuse to believe) and SL scum, then Coag would be very likely town and the scum would probably be Rels/kita + Artanis/Shockeyy. Which I guess isn't impossible either, but what's impossible is HTS being town to begin with....... So all in all, I guess Coag being scum over SL makes more sense considering potential scumteams / vote records...... But just based on play, SL seems quite a bit more likely scum. HTS being town and SL being scum makes some amount of sense, but less so than the previous world, and what makes least sense of all is HTS possibly being town :/ Meh.... I still think it's very possible they're just both scum (SL/HTS). The only non-sensible part is Rels voting NO last time, but since he did the same to a previous fail team, I guess it's not impossible to happen again now. Other than Rels, it's not very likely for anyone else (except maybe Vivax) to be with SL/HTS. It would make some sense considering that HTS has otherwise scumread Rels, but townread Rels when Rels was nominated on a team... Much like SL townread me only when he needed to so that the mission including him would be accepted. I guess it's still quite plausible after all, considering that Rels has provably voted NO to a failing team before as well. So SL/HTS/Rels (or *maybe* Coag + probably 2 out of HTS/Artanis/shockeyy) for post game cred | ||
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On November 14 2015 21:39 Vivax wrote: How can you still not understand that I'm confirmed town cause I no-voted a team I was on? If I was spy, do you think that instead of instantly winning the game after saying I would yolo vote yes, I decide to randomly prolong this for a few more days? When have I scumread you? Dunno what you're on about... I don't think I've called either you or Superbia ever scum after my initial dislike of Superbia's fight with me. | ||
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On November 14 2015 21:36 Xatalos wrote: How is it confirmed? I just showed you that it's likely there was at a NO scum voter in the last failing team which passed anyway. To expand on this: if we assume Rels is scum, it's proven that he's voted NO to a failure team before as well, so why not now? Clearly it's impossible to predict what the exact vote results will be, and it's always scum motivated to confuse the heck out of town with WIFOM. Time is on scum's side after all here (triple LYLO ahead) so why risk everything on voting YES with full force to a fail team? | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:01 Vivax wrote: Makes more sense as spy to no vote to a fail team when the mission won't win you the game than when it does. It earns you enough trust to be put onto the next mission. We've seen how that worked out when rayn nominated one. I guess that's true. Still there wouldn't be guarantee for scum Rels that voting YES here would win the game either. It's very possible that the team could still be disapproved anyway and Rels would just look bad afterwards. In that case, it would just be a gamble with the possibility of losing the game in the long term or possibly winning the game immediately. I can easily see scum Rels making either choice. | ||
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On November 14 2015 21:39 Vivax wrote: How can you still not understand that I'm confirmed town cause I no-voted a team I was on? If I was spy, do you think that instead of instantly winning the game after saying I would yolo vote yes, I decide to randomly prolong this for a few more days? Ah, I guess you meant me listing the SL/HTS/Vivax team. It wasn't really any likely scenario, just a potential combination that could theoretically make sense. The only realistic combination there seems to be SL/HTS/Rels. | ||
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On November 14 2015 21:59 Vivax wrote: I'll be tinfoiling hard before the next mission actually. Mostly about those who always voted yes on any failed mission (HTS, Rayn). Xata is among them too. I'm not that sure this was an all town team after all. Well, I won't deny that my voting record isn't the best one. I think it's still better than HTS/Coag though. HTS is especially bad because her YES votes have been to failing teams that she herself hasn't been part of, further pointing to her seeing a chance to pass some failing team in those situations (especially voting Rels to pass when she has mostly been scumreading Rels throughout the game). | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:12 Vivax wrote: Which is why I faked voting yes. Spies were likely to vote yes here just seeing that me and everyone else on that team would support it, plus Artanis who wasn't on it. It's still more likely this was an all town team just by comparing all the votes from failed missions. Another thing I want to mention is that it's not bad at all for spies to bring buddies to their team if always only one sabotage act is detected, it seems to be pretty common around here to say "but he wouldn't want another teammate on that wagon". Maybe....... Still there's also the common thought that people that haven't been on failure teams should be prioritized for new teams. That's been more common so far actually. Having 2+ scum on a failure team seems pretty bad since the next team would quite likely be all town in that case. | ||
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Besides, there's still always the chance that Rels is town. That would easily explain the situation too. But that would mean both SL and HTS probably wouldn't be scum.... | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:17 Vivax wrote: Fair point, I shall revisit HTS. But it would mean that I'm wrong on kita and that's kinda tough cause I always had a bad feeling about him. Tinfoil request accepted. Coag might as well not have voted anything and have defaulted to no on the last mission. Maybe spies missed a victory just cause he's a lazy bum lolz. Fidei said he didn't receive all the votes. HAHAHAHAHA that would just be too funny :D:D | ||
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Seems like there would be a good chance of that being clean. Not really sure about the last two options though, neither of them have great vote records (or really play for that matter).... It's just PoE. But kita+Vivax have pretty much perfect vote records so there's that... Vivax also hasn't really looked scummy at any point IMO | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:33 Half the Sky wrote: Hahahahahahaha!!!!! I have never once scumread Rayn. Hilarious. Much like shockeyy, you never directly called him scum, but made a lot of posts putting suspicion on him. rayn himself at least was sure that you pushed him. | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:38 Half the Sky wrote: Vivax In both cases I explained why I voted for the failed teams. And if it comes to it I can come up with the teams you need that leave myself off. The scumteam are Xata/Rels/Kita so its super easy to sort out the rest. What I suggest you look at is the rationale leading up to the failed votes. Xatalos should have never voted mission 2 on for all the reservations he had. Also extra town points to you (Vivax) for the smokescreen...not like you needed them. I have no idea tbf what Coagulation is doing though. Btw I did explain why I voted like I did. SL's auto-nomination would have been a surefire way to lose. At least that team had hope. But you haven't read my posts in ages anyway so whatever. | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:38 Half the Sky wrote: Vivax In both cases I explained why I voted for the failed teams. And if it comes to it I can come up with the teams you need that leave myself off. The scumteam are Xata/Rels/Kita so its super easy to sort out the rest. What I suggest you look at is the rationale leading up to the failed votes. Xatalos should have never voted mission 2 on for all the reservations he had. Also extra town points to you (Vivax) for the smokescreen...not like you needed them. I have no idea tbf what Coagulation is doing though. Not really sure why you call kita scum when he has voted against every failing team while you have voted FOR every failing team without even being included in them And on pretty shaky grounds such as voting in SL even though you suspected him to be scum at the time, and Rels whom you had scumread up to that point. | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:58 Half the Sky wrote: Stop distorting the facts. I explained multiple times over that rayn's behaviour was TOXIC but NON ALIGNMENT INDICTATIVE. I also fuether defined what i meant by toxic for town. This was because at the time I felt Shockey was wrongfully scumreading him. Shockley's conclusion was reasonable as Mafia do prefer to shit up the thread at times but he doesn't know rayn's meta and there's where I did examples. Rayn saying that I was scumreading him (and I told him it was not true either) was because he cannot take any criticism of his play and it had ZERO to do with determining alignments. I corrected him as well. Fair bit of reaching you are doing there. The scumpushing happened before your "toxicpushing", although I also agree with rayn that the latter had no town motivation and plenty of scum motivation to destroy rayn's credibility. Funny how you say I'm "reaching". You never bothered to comment on my replies to your "cases" on me which were almost too ridiculous to even reply to. rayn said as much too, and someone else (kita?). | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:03 sicklucker wrote: do you not agree that my only possible scum team combination is hts/art/sl? do you think hts and art are a team? Theres alot of reason I dont think they are. The main one is because hts was pushing art on the team we submited. If hts is scum she would not try to look scummy because she only needs one scum to be on that team (her) theres no scum motive for hts scum to make artanis look better if there partners since she is basicly granted to be on any mission team. Hts is also trying to convince me in thread to think art is town. thats a really pointless thing for hts to post if the three of us are the scum team Hm. That's pretty WIFOM, but I don't really think it's ever bad for scum to manipulate town opinions. How did you come to the conclusion that only SL/HTS/Artanis would make sense though? Actually I think that team is impossible, just looking at the mission fails. | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:06 Half the Sky wrote: Xatalos, Kita is scum based on association from Rels. That's my primary reason and I cited post references before. Vivax and Artanis made great posts BTW on Kita always framing their behaviour from an exclusive Mafia lens. as for Kita's voting record, again disassociation. Same thing I told with Rels and sicklucker called the same thing out earlier, Rels voting no alone will not vindicate him. The SAME applies for Kita. All you people need to do is ensure but one Mafia get on a team and then cruise on that regardless of who voted what. The voting records are one set of data points, filters/reads etc are a big part as well. Do you really think scum kita would vote against every fail team and Rels would also vote against them (except once)? Doesn't seem like a very likely team to me. | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:08 sicklucker wrote: anyway xata if your town you have the most info knowing me/shockey/vivax are confirmed town. so ill read your posts here and see if ill read your posts ever again this game Hm? How? | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:10 Half the Sky wrote: Again at no point have I ever scumread Rayn at any point this game. Why do you think I was trying to convince Shockey out of the tunnel? In what world does that make sense if I thought Rayn was scum? Please. This is pretty pathetic from you because you are scumreading me based on fallacy. Look in the mirror None of your reasons to scumread me have made the slightest amount of sense.It's also pointless for you to say that you "never scumread him" when a lot of your posts are about putting suspicion on him / discrediting him. | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:12 sicklucker wrote: ya you cant think this still if your town Explain | ||
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HTS's first argument against me was that my read progression regarding rayn/SL after the first fail didn't make sense. I already explained why it did, and rayn agreed. Here's how it went: 1) I heavily townread rayn, town leaned on SL 2) rayn heavily townread me, town leaned on SL 3) Mission failed 3) I still townread rayn, scumread SL (because that's the only logical conclusion there) 4) rayn still townreads me, scumreads SL (because that's the only logical conclusion there) 5) HTS first pushes rayn for unrelated things, then comes to the conclusion that rayn is town anyways when none of it makes sense 6) BUT then HTS says that I'm scum for my read progression there when it's the exact same as rayn's..... 7) WTF????!!!!! Now HTS would already be likely scum for this, plus her vote record that's more terrible than anyone else's. But there's more, a lot more. It just gets worse. She starts nitpicking my every post that she can find something suspicious on in her imaginary world. It goes downhill until rayn called HTS's posts about me "literally bullshit" (100% agreed btw). Perhaps the worst example was when I discussed with rayn about how this "might be our only chance to make it work" (before SL's auto-nomination came up). I was obviously talking about this nomination overall, not the current team. But HTS just latched on me supporting SL to be on the team (???) when I just clearly said right there that I didn't want him on the team. HTS continued pushing this angle for many pages, and even though she was shown wrong by me and others, she never dropped it. Instead she renewed her agenda of finding any possible bullshit reason to scumread me. And now it's repeating. She's saying that I shouldn't have voted YES to the earlier team when I had clearly said that I preferred this to SL's auto-nomination, even if I had my doubts..... But it's no use talking to HTS really. This will hopefully be my last post on this topic. | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:19 sicklucker wrote: RELS /SUPER/YOU/VIVAX/RYAN what do they have in common xata? + Show Spoiler + they all voted no on two teams that I was on and can not be on a scum team with me I don't think me/Vivax are scum anyways, and Coag could well be town still. The only question mark is Rels, but he's clearly voted NO to fail teams anyway, so it's nothing conclusive. Besides you could be scum with someone else than Rels (like shockeyy/Artanis/HTS). Can't say I see the "confirmed". What would be your "dream team" right now? | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:39 sicklucker wrote: it shouldnt be. you and hts need to fight it out if your town because shes always scum. If your town then your only hope to win the game is to fight her. It really should just be simple. Her reasons are very bad and mostly just factually untrue. Her voting record sucks so much. If she's not scum, I'm ready to take the blame post-game. As for you, I guess there's a possibility you're town, but it would mean Coag being scum and I still don't think that's the case. | ||
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On November 06 2015 07:45 Half the Sky wrote: Shockey is townreading Superbia, Rels, Artanis and Kita, scumreads on rayn and Xatalos. Null on everyone else. Probably means I don't have to worry about a spy Xatalos fooling us all, with the third scum being Superbia/Kita, Artanis/sicklucker per this association is a longshot. This also means though I'm wrong on a townread though, and I'm now not sure whom without filter diving. It's one of Superbia or Kita, Rels is either defending scum Kita or disassociating from Superbia. If I had to tinfoil Kita, the former makes sense considering the early case on Xatalos. But now we have some queries on Rels. Hmmmm. The problem is, if sicklucker is mafia, and Rels is using reverse psychology on us, then this whole thing is blown out of the water. But Ockham's razor indicates SL is town, so I think that's what I'm going to hold for now, unless something else indicates otherwise. Random thoughts. Still on mobile, can't filter dive too easily. SL is HTS's #2 suspect here after Rels..... On November 06 2015 07:55 Half the Sky wrote: Nah wait, Rels is downvoting the team, so nvm. sicklucker is probably town. Forgot for a second. Vote justified anyway just because Rels disagrees with the team. On November 06 2015 08:24 Half the Sky wrote: Independent of the vote, there's plenty to suggest Xatalos/rayn are town, so the main doubt was sicklucker. If the mission is sabotaged, it makes it pretty obvious where it'd be but then that also circles to the point raised as to why the next team is selected right away. Townreading me/rayn. On November 07 2015 08:37 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, going into tinfoil rayn land - the first thing that jumps out at me was the "alternate strategy" of getting multiple scum on the team as opposed to the conventional strategy of trying to get the first mission to pass. I forget who accused rayn of mafia motivation but this was one potential point to raise against him. On November 07 2015 08:43 Half the Sky wrote: Second point is the conflicting read on Superbia where he was nitpicking Xatalos over scum being at a disadvantage (paraphrasing) whereas Kita took the opposite position on this. Saying that Superbia was stretching it. Does it make sense for a town rayn to read Superbia that way? That's probably the first question to think hard on. We all know that when rayn is town, he's nitpicky over semantics. As mafia....I honestly don't remember. I know the rage level is the same, the last mafia game I recall (TL LXX before he replaced out) I don't recall a lot of nitpicking but I might need to refresh my memory, that game was in March. Ugh. Does anyone else recall any notable rayn scum games where he was close to replicate town play? First wave of reads: Putting some suspicion on rayn for a bit.. But it doesn't really work out too well, so next is me.... Even though SL was the main suspect of us 3 before, now he's off bounds somehow. On November 08 2015 12:06 Half the Sky wrote: Actually re-read this - the quick answer to this is Xatalos being suspicious based on how quickly he did it. I brought this point up discussing sicklucker and I went into detail citing two posts where I suspected Xatalos could be scum for this. rayn I have a slightly different take which I was going to do a separate walkthrough. I was planning on doing a Xata meta read analysis - as mafia Xatalos has shallower reads (and the last post I just cited from him sorta scares me tbh. But long story shot I think a number of the things you cited with rayn is (mostly) NAI. I'll try and explain why. Well, here's the main argument. That I decided SL was scum rather than rayn too "quickly". But rayn decided that even faster.... So ?????? It just doesn't make sense. I did at least entertain the possibility of rayn being scum, but I never really thought that was the case, and my filter dive confirmed my stance there. I was pretty sure it would be SL if the mission somehow failed. On November 10 2015 03:08 Half the Sky wrote: More on why Xatalos is a spy - Mission 1: Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker - vote passed 5:4, mission failed. Rayn suggested a team of himself, sicklucker (TWO FROM THE ABOVE FAILED MISSION!!!!) me, and Shockey. And then Xatalos turns around and says "this nomination is the only one we have a chance"?????? When in HIS world he's town and we know for a FACT one of these two failed, he's saying we have a chance? Are you remotely kidding me?!?!?!?!? That is one atrocious response if I've ever seen one. This is where it really starts going downhill. Read this post and the following posts to see why. Nothing fits this argument more than "absolute bullshit". And the following new arguments are pretty much the same. | ||
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On November 15 2015 01:41 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, to answer these points. 1 First your "vote justified...." doesn't account for the fact I townread you up to that point (first sentence of quoted post, I had reason to townread you anyhow). Additionally, rayn made the same point that scummy people wanted sicklucker out for Rels. So what on that note alone made him more town than myself making the same point? 2 It would be negligent to not question potential scum motives on rayn after the failture. Did I push them? No. Kita answered the questions (or someone did) and if there's no mafia motivation, of course I'd drop them. I wanted discussion and I wasn't going to push rayn unless there was actually evidence of such a mindset. It is a town tell to express some scepticism which is what I did. I said it before (post 1850). It is a known fact for anyone familiar with rayn that rayn does not take well to being scumread or to me doubting him in any way. I did it, it didn't check out, I moved on. rayn suspecting me does not mean he's right, nor does it mean I'm scum. He was wrong on me in Titanic (and got mislynched for it, mafia took advantage of my tunnel on rayn) and he was wrong on me here. 3 rayn townreading you (and stickling to it) is the type of thing he will do, he has his one way of thinking - many players agree on this - and I know he said a few times early on "Xatalos is confirmed town" (erroneously). Anyways, he is the type of player who doesn't change his reads much if he thinks the player is being "logical" enough. At that point in time, he was scumreading both Shockey and myself pretty hard, and did not change his reads on us at any point in the game until he was modkilled. I know the very last thing he said about both of us was that (paraphrasing) "and I keep coming back to how Shockey and HTS are so scummy because of everything they post..." .....but this is because rayn plays the game very different from either of us so he will say things like that. The meta expectations for both of you are different because you play the game differently and this is the same argument I made in defence of sicklucker. Using a different example, Artanis is/was scumreading you for not re-evaluating on me. The biggest difference between you and rayn is that rayn will not re-evaluate if he feels there are more scummy townies. And that is typical town rayn. (And I know I'm not the only one who said this either.) 4 Regarding the last quote I told Rels (because I beleive he queried me on it too) that it was possible I could have misunderstood you regarding the first mission and I spliced the words for a double take. At this point in time I am pushing you harder on Mission #2 (posts 2363/(my 6000th post)/2990). You cast doubt on sicklucker and myself upvoting the team, and took attention off your own scummates. THAT IS MAFIA MOTIVATED. 5 A few other people drew into question your reads - #2361 and 2362. I keep forgetting those posts. Finally, again, if people are so scared of me, I can come up with 4- and 5-player teams without myself on it that suit the town agenda. You (from your recent posts) can not. Hm, so I assume you've dropped the earlier arguments by now then? It's just hard to tell because it's a continuous push where you switch arguments whenever you can, and kind of leave the earlier arguments hanging in there. I think you said you haven't seen my towngame, so I'd say you're unqualified to talk about my towngame in any case. I usually stick to my reads as town, unless there's heavy reason to reconsider. Your vote record and push on me have kept being awful, so... That latter argument "I took attention off my teammates" is just unflipped association. You just assume someone is scum and I'm scum when I'm not scumreading them (at least as much as you are). Not very convincing. | ||
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On November 15 2015 01:29 Half the Sky wrote: Back. No, that was you not answering rayn's question as to Kita/Rels - AND RAYN CALLED YOU OUT ON THAT HIMSELF. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=112#2225 YOU EVADED HIS QUESTION. Well, I wasn't sure if I was going to vote or not yet when rayn asked that. I did talk more about my stance after that too. Not sure if I spelled out that I'd be going to vote YES, but I don't think it's always good to announce your vote for certain like that anyway (in case scum could possibly predict the results like Vivax suggested). | ||
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On November 15 2015 01:57 Half the Sky wrote: The point I tried to make and I did in my earlier post is that you failed to answer any question or take a stance on Kita or Rels prior to the team going up. "It's not the best and it's not the worst" simply means it's easier for you to evade accountability regardless of anyone's alignment. The answer you simply gave to rayn was poor irrespective of their alignments. Well, since I thought they were mediocre choices, should I have said they were good or bad? No. | ||
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On November 15 2015 02:01 kitaman27 wrote: I was under the impression that the host decided the rules, not some random comment from rayn. Well, we did talk about it extensively in the pre-game. I don't think we'll ever see 2 sabotages per mission in this game. | ||
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On November 15 2015 02:29 kitaman27 wrote: You're so far gone that anything I say is going to be ignored or come out as scummy. Whatever. Pretty much my reaction to HTS in recent days Although she's been surprisingly reasonable in the pages just now. Oh well. Looks like I'm still scum regardless, not a surprise. | ||
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Better to reject it than to gamble for no real reason. | ||
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On November 16 2015 04:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Sure feels scummy in the past few pages over here. Sicklucker, just vote yes. Scum is Rels/Kita/Xata and maaaybe it was Rayn but probably not. None of those are on the mission here. Do you really think scum kita would feel the need to push me out of the first team by HTS if I was scum with him...? | ||
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On November 16 2015 04:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Given the first team will rarely actually get the go ahead since the game only just started and HtS was not considered trustworthy, sure, I don't see much of an issue with it. Meh... I still don't see that as a likely interaction if we really were scum. In any case, kita has voted down every failed team... That's pretty townie in itself. I'd like if you could look at HTS more critically from here. I'm not even really sure how you came to the Xata+kita team. | ||
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Then again, almost everyone voted YES there >.> | ||
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If you're town, HTS, we really need to talk about your arguments post-game. Maybe it's possible you could just be an extremely tunneled and overly optimistic voter. But I still can't easily accept it. If this passes (as it seems), I guess it's pretty much game over either way. If it's all town, it shouldn't be hard to find a fifth objectively clear townie afterwards. Or rather, scum should just concede. If there's scum (HTS....) in there, then GG, well played. I'll probably just vote NO again anyway. Can't bring myself to vote YES for HTS.... But I guess it's not the worst thing even if it passes. Kind of focused on other things at this point. | ||
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On November 18 2015 08:06 Half the Sky wrote: Artanis and I going at it on steam.....he's saying he's glad he got his revenge on me. yeah Lex....fuck you too <3 <3 Revenge? | ||
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On November 18 2015 08:04 Half the Sky wrote: Well Xata and Rels were dead giveaways. Rels was so bad after mission 2 it was hilarious. Still btw your reasons for scumreading me were so bad I could have understood if you based it on my horrible voting record or lack of motivation to do anything meaningful after the start, but you based it on things that were just objectively null (like misunderstandings about specific posts or my read progression on SL that was actually pretty slow, not quick like you said.... whereas rayn immediately scumread him hahaha) | ||
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On November 18 2015 08:09 Half the Sky wrote: Well Artanis was nominated for mafia player of the year from Imperial and there's a reason for that. Friggin' protoss.... | ||
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On November 18 2015 08:13 Rels wrote: I felt that would increase HTS' townread on you. I remember being like "should I hard bus ?" and you made a post about me being potential scum and I was like "alright let's do it" =D And yeah your gambit won the game at the end. Fucking well played. Haha yeah, seemed like HTS went for anything that you didn't want so it wasn't a bad idea Worked elsewhere too hahaha | ||
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On November 18 2015 08:27 sicklucker wrote: no he didnt he claimed scum when he pushed himself and you as the next mission with 0 suspecion at all when mathematically your scum half the time It doesn't really work that way As town I would have been slightly more suspicious of rayn (here I just didn't want to antagonize him since he usually ends up tunneling you if you do), but I would have always scumread you there regardless. Your YES vote when you scumread me so much before was just that suspect. | ||
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On November 18 2015 08:20 Rels wrote: OK I really don't want to brag or anything, this is my feeling. I felt like this game was town favored. Even if the scums wins the first 2 missions, they can lose extremely easily with all the information available to town. And if any of the first 2 missions passes, townies becomes confirmed and the game is almost over for scums. Is it balanced IRL ? If it's the case, I feel like having a lot of time analyzing votes and team submissions and reads is a big disavantadge for scums. Yeah I really think it's a bit town favored. It requires good scum play and active splitting of the town into camps to control the missions, I guess. Got a bit lucky at the end with the fast/easy 3rd sabotage, but overall I think we did well with the first and second sabotages. | ||
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If you messed up at the end, we'd have been done for hahahaI really don't think scum can win this if there's a poor scum player included.... | ||
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