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On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town. Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again. Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively. #455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read. He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia. The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through. The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him.
I don't think it's particularly town-aligned just that you ask clarifying questions? What's more important is how you use the questions, and he's just kind of ended up nowhere...
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On November 03 2015 22:21 Half the Sky wrote:Why?
Lol :D
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Roflmao :D
Do you expect to be 100% townread based on not giving a fuck? Just to clarify, I'd still lean town on you because you didn't really seem to care about your chances of being included on a mission...
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That's a pretty shitty heuristic... By that logic, do you 100% townread Artanis because he didn't do much yesterday?
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Whatever SL, I really don't see the point of your heuristic... It's really shallow and clearly faulty if you just think I'm scum based on my question to rayn, disregarding everything else.
I think shockey didn't read the post very well and thought Kita was giving his reads when he actually listed MY reads? Haha
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Though I can't fathom how shockey could come to the conclusion that was a list of Kita's own reads when the list included Kita himself as scum.... Wtf? :D Probably only glanced at the post.
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Tbh it's not like I didn't have scumreads when Kita said that. That criticism would apply to Kita himself, on the other hand.
(I thought Kita was likely scum at the time and shockey/Rels were also bordering on scum)
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I mean, Rels looked better than either of them, but... Well, I guess null fit him better. But Kita and shockey were definitely below null. Meanwhile Kita didn't have even a single real scumread?
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On November 03 2015 22:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:54 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:49 Half the Sky wrote:
Shockey, I think you posted the wrong thing.
That's Kita casing Xata's reads, not Kita's own reads. Do you think he read that post or the thread closely? I mean like if he did read that post closely and misread it maybe... just maybe... it would strike him odd that kitaman scumreads himself in that post. :p Probably not. What does this mean? Like if you read someone's post properly (let's assume you can misread and think those are kitaman's reads) and actually think about the motivation behind the reads and the post, you come across the sentence that says "kitaman - scum", that doesn't make you ask yourself "wtf"? 
Haha yeah 
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There's still time to decide the next team. If we go for the full-town team, then sure, I'll most likely include rayn... And we'll have to decide the third member. But rayn gave good reasons for proposing the full-scum (2/3 scum) team - lots of pressure on the whole team - and there are additional reasons having to do with miscommunications within the scumteam and such, so it might be better to propose that next.
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We don't necessarily even need to approve the full-scum team, and it's already useful as a proposal for mentioned reasons. If we do approve it, there are a couple of reasons for why it could be good because of the nature of this game (it's more risky than the full-town team, but also a lot more potentially rewarding). If you want to know these reasons, I can say them later.
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Rels, could you expand on your Kita/shockey townreads?
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On November 04 2015 01:28 Rels wrote:A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from townHTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else. This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons: 1.You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot. 2.If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread. 3.Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below. I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post: Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely. But that wasn't the case. Sources: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup. Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:
Alright leaving work.
HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me. Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn. *yawn* Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous. What is concerning is the lack of reads from a lot of people (inactives aside) because other than Rels saying he won't vote for certain teams, not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult. I know where rayn, Rels and Xata stand, kita to a lesser extent, the rest....shit. I'm hoping as the day wears on, we'll see more activity from the NA-based players (or at least I can resolve Kita). If I'm home on time, I should have at least 30m to see if I last minute swap someone. Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 06:56 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote:
##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Still on my way home everyone. So you view yourself, me, rayn, super, and xatalos as trustworthy? Not a lot of wiggle room there with the nulls. Kinda similar to what had me concerned with xata earlier. Or did something that xata or super post move them over to your spy list? I don't mind this nomination as much as the other two....but I'd be much more satisfied with it coming back up for vote later on in the first cycle so I'd have a better grasp on you and rayn. Still not thrilled about accepting a team 24 hours into the game. Right now, I'm most certain on you, rayn, superbia. Less so on Xatalos compared to you three but I don't think he's a spy. The three of you - reads are partially based on meta but still conducive to how you have still played this game so far. For tactical reasons I could swap myself out but seeing as there is only one person disputing my inclusion on the team (who I'm not townreading anyways), it makes more sense to keep myself on the team with my two most certain townreads. Also agreed on the 24h thing, IRL really cut into my playing time, but it is what it is. Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:57 Half the Sky wrote:
4 mins left.
Could pull myself off and go with Rayn/Superbia/Kita.
But there are too many people not digging at least one of these as town. Talking about Xatalos' team: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:01 Half the Sky wrote:
So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter.
I guess she's really focused on looking good... Don't you think it could be just town wanting to be townread? Well, that kind of contradicts the way she's also okay with not being on missions >.> Then why try so hard to look good?
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Meh... I guess she could be scum. At least if Kita is town, it would make sense (including Kita on the team for him to take the fall for a failed mission?).
But if Kita is scum, then I don't really think HTS is. Why not just ride the HTS/Xata/rayn team and fail it? Seems quite likely to be approved and would possibly cause a ragefight between me and rayn or something lol...
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On November 04 2015 01:41 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 01:37 Xatalos wrote:On November 04 2015 01:28 Rels wrote:A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from townHTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else. This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons: 1.You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot. 2.If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread. 3.Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below. I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post: On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely. But that wasn't the case. Sources: On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup. On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:
Alright leaving work.
HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me. Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn. *yawn* Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous. What is concerning is the lack of reads from a lot of people (inactives aside) because other than Rels saying he won't vote for certain teams, not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult. I know where rayn, Rels and Xata stand, kita to a lesser extent, the rest....shit. I'm hoping as the day wears on, we'll see more activity from the NA-based players (or at least I can resolve Kita). If I'm home on time, I should have at least 30m to see if I last minute swap someone. On November 03 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 06:56 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote:
##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Still on my way home everyone. So you view yourself, me, rayn, super, and xatalos as trustworthy? Not a lot of wiggle room there with the nulls. Kinda similar to what had me concerned with xata earlier. Or did something that xata or super post move them over to your spy list? I don't mind this nomination as much as the other two....but I'd be much more satisfied with it coming back up for vote later on in the first cycle so I'd have a better grasp on you and rayn. Still not thrilled about accepting a team 24 hours into the game. Right now, I'm most certain on you, rayn, superbia. Less so on Xatalos compared to you three but I don't think he's a spy. The three of you - reads are partially based on meta but still conducive to how you have still played this game so far. For tactical reasons I could swap myself out but seeing as there is only one person disputing my inclusion on the team (who I'm not townreading anyways), it makes more sense to keep myself on the team with my two most certain townreads. Also agreed on the 24h thing, IRL really cut into my playing time, but it is what it is. Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse: On November 03 2015 07:57 Half the Sky wrote:
4 mins left.
Could pull myself off and go with Rayn/Superbia/Kita.
But there are too many people not digging at least one of these as town. Talking about Xatalos' team: On November 03 2015 23:01 Half the Sky wrote:
So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter. I guess she's really focused on looking good... Don't you think it could be just town wanting to be townread? Well, that kind of contradicts the way she's also okay with not being on missions >.> Then why try so hard to look good? Good to see you're answering yourself. p: You're really the opposite of Shockey; each time someone brings a point on someone else, you accept it and change your read of that person. You really are following the thread sentiment to the letter. Can I have a quick read list post ?
Atm I think rayn is most likely town. He has a very balanced view of the game and he's following what we talked about on Skype - trying to be more calm and reasonable in the way how he makes reads and pushes things. I didn't really see anything unacceptable from how his reads progressed so far.
Not completely sold on anyone else being town right now. One of HTS/Kita most likely is (I'd guess HTS....) and Superbia could be... SL and Artanis could also well be town based on their "free-spirited" posting like rayn said (not really pushing any agenda).
The rest would be null/scummy unless I forgot something. See previous posts about Kita and shockey, and you I'm less sure on, but... It's kind of hard to accept what reads you've been pushing (like the rayn push, town reading Kita/shockey over all others...?). While at it, you could just explain all of your reads so that I could try and make sense of it.
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On November 04 2015 01:38 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 01:33 Xatalos wrote:
Rels, could you expand on your Kita/shockey townreads? One sentence each since I'm leaving in a few minutes: Kita makes sense and bring good points. He did that as scum too in a game where he wrecked us; but contrary to that, he's attacking people that are townread by a majority of the town: Superbia and you at the time, rayn just now. Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it.
Kita only attacked scummy players in that game then, or what? Didn't you just say that he makes sense as either alignment..?
I think there's a fair scum motivation for pushing "odd" reads to manipulate the mission team selections..
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Hmm.. Well, I'd say it's not 100% good to always include yourself on missions, but it's still a bit odd that you were more concerned about having an approved team than a team with the highest chances of success (meaning that you'd be included, and rather trusting your reads over the consensus)?
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I guess so.. Well, I don't really think you're scum at this point. That'd only really be understandable if Kita was town.
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I think it's better not to give the scumteam ideas/guidance in the thread. And like I said, it's not necessarily even needed to approve the team... It could be interesting just to propose it.
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I don't really follow the read on me, kita. I didn't say that Superbia was constantly ACTIVE, but that he was constantly engaged WHEN he was active. He immediately engaged me when I came to the thread, and interacted actively later on when he returned to the thread... Whereas you felt kind of distant / avoiding direct engagement. Well, I'm not really sure about him at the moment, but you're misrepresenting my read on him there.
I agree that Superbia has become less engaged over time. Which is why he really isn't a strong townread at this point. But I stand by what I said about his earlier play.
As for you, your recent posts have felt better in general (more engaged / focused on what's happening in the game), but I don't really like either your soft push on me just before the team decision or your current push of me for... well, the above reasons, which are just misrepresenting my reads.
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EPT
