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On November 07 2015 10:08 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 10:06 Rels wrote:Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time. On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2015 03:27 kitaman27 wrote:On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team.
It makes very little sense. What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here? If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right". Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together. On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur]
Battle of DramsBasically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all. And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup: On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you read his filter, rayn always considers teams when he puts out suspicions. But there, he considers us both possible scums, when in his giant post he said that about busing:
The best way of playing Resistance, at least what i have figured out is to play the first cycle as you were playing mafia. What Rels said is completely untrue, just because if mafia does not look town they cannot bus, everything is situational. The way to play is to give out reads, town and scumreads. While townreads are "more important" here, the fact is that mafia doesn't want an all town team to go on a mission, that should be obvious. Now if scum are bussing, it hinders their changes of getting a mission where there is scum on it to go through, just because they have to downvote missions (unless they themselves are the scum there).
Now if mafia busses, and there happens to be a town leader, they might find themselves in a situation where they must accept an all town team, because otherwise they give themselves away. You can't just have three scumreads and when a mission goes up where all the people there are townread by you, you just can't say "i am nay-voting this team, because...". So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town. That's just unflipped association though? I don't think it should completely remove a scumread on either of you, even if it could maybe cause him think that you're not both scum together.
So SL is considered town because "all the scummy people don't want to vote for him"; but this consideration don't extend to HTS being pushed pretty hard by rayn's second hardest scumread after Shockey ?
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On November 07 2015 10:12 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 10:10 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 10:08 Xatalos wrote:On November 07 2015 10:06 Rels wrote:Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time. On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2015 03:27 kitaman27 wrote:On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team.
It makes very little sense. What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here? If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right". Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together. On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur]
Battle of DramsBasically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all. And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup: On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you read his filter, rayn always considers teams when he puts out suspicions. But there, he considers us both possible scums, when in his giant post he said that about busing:
The best way of playing Resistance, at least what i have figured out is to play the first cycle as you were playing mafia. What Rels said is completely untrue, just because if mafia does not look town they cannot bus, everything is situational. The way to play is to give out reads, town and scumreads. While townreads are "more important" here, the fact is that mafia doesn't want an all town team to go on a mission, that should be obvious. Now if scum are bussing, it hinders their changes of getting a mission where there is scum on it to go through, just because they have to downvote missions (unless they themselves are the scum there).
Now if mafia busses, and there happens to be a town leader, they might find themselves in a situation where they must accept an all town team, because otherwise they give themselves away. You can't just have three scumreads and when a mission goes up where all the people there are townread by you, you just can't say "i am nay-voting this team, because...". So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town. That's just unflipped association though? I don't think it should completely remove a scumread on either of you, even if it could maybe cause him think that you're not both scum together. So SL is considered town because "all the scummy people don't want to vote for him"; but this consideration don't extend to HTS being pushed pretty hard by rayn's second hardest scumread after Shockey ? Hah  Well, I'll let rayn himself answer that one. Didn't he comment on your association with HTS anywhere?
He dodged that question several times.
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Alright going to sleep. Hopefully I will think of some things during it.
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On November 07 2015 10:37 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 10:09 sicklucker wrote:On November 07 2015 08:22 kitaman27 wrote:On November 06 2015 19:33 sicklucker wrote:On November 06 2015 18:39 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 14:55 sicklucker wrote:
This "qeustion" so dumb I dont know what angle your trying to pull here but it does not make me scum.
Artanis/me/rayn is the team I wanted and xata is the team I got. I explained why I somewhat townread xata and was happy with voting. The question is clear and has nothing to do with what you just said: On November 05 2015 23:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 05 2015 18:36 sicklucker wrote:
when i said the team is all town i ment me/rayn/artanis there.. On November 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote:
This one is probably going to get rejected straight out bc there's a good chance SL will just continue to lurk. =/ Artanis would've gotten some votes. On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote:
super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team So these were the posts that came within 6 minutes of each other. Super said the team would get rejected with SL, but Artanis would have gotten votes instead. Now how could you think the team was SL/rayn/artanis if super is stating that artanis should have been included in the same exact post that you respond that he is scum? then i just dont understand english I'll try to make it as simple as possible: 1) Superbia says that the team will get rejected because artanis should have been chosen instead of SL 2) You call Superbia for wanting to reject the all town team 3) The all town team that you claim to have been referring to was SL/rayn/artanis, rather than SL/rayn/xat How could 3 be true if he is clearly stating that he wanted artanis instead of SL? ok i called it an all town team. I was suspicious of super The reason you say you are suspicious of super isn't possible though. You called him scum because you say you thought he wanted to reject SL/rayn/artanis. You can't think he was referring to a SL/rayn/artanis team because he said he wanted Artanis instead of SL in the post you called him scum for. How can he want artanis in place of SL if they are both in the team you think he is referring to? Does anyone else get what I'm saying or am I talking to a wall?
I do. This makes no sense.
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On November 07 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I suggest you pick yourself, Rels, kitaman and Superbia.
It will get nay-voted anyways but meh.
I won't vote for any team that has one of the two YES voters not on the team (HTS and Arta). It's 99% sure there is one scum between them, and XX% there is two. I have no idea how to calculate XX but I can assure it's a big number.
The best plan here, regardless of reads, is to send 3 of the NO voters + 1 of the failure team. The NO voters have at most one mafia between them, and possibly none; so it's the biggest chance of success. And if the mission fails, there is a big chance the 1 from the failure team is mafia.
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On November 07 2015 19:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 09:52 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 09:45 Xatalos wrote:On November 07 2015 09:16 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote:
!!! MISSION FAILED !!!
1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2
Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase
Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015. Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3. I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well. Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible. Okay, hold up, timeline: 1. Rels considered SL scummy. 2. Rels started considering Rayn scummy. 3. Rels still considered SL scummy. 4. Mission fails. 5. Rels considers SL obvious town because he's being set up by Rayn. What happened between 3 and 5 that made you think it's MORE likely for SL to be town after the mission fails?
The fact that rayn is more likely to be scum. And you didn't read properly: I said "SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure", so I don't know why you say "5. Rels considers SL obvious town because he's being set up by Rayn."
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On November 08 2015 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:24 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I suggest you pick yourself, Rels, kitaman and Superbia.
It will get nay-voted anyways but meh. I won't vote for any team that has one of the two YES voters not on the team (HTS and Arta). It's 99% sure there is one scum between them, and XX% there is two. I have no idea how to calculate XX but I can assure it's a big number. The best plan here, regardless of reads, is to send 3 of the NO voters + 1 of the failure team. The NO voters have at most one mafia between them, and possibly none; so it's the biggest chance of success. And if the mission fails, there is a big chance the 1 from the failure team is mafia. would you vote yes on a team with me in it if it doesn't include Artanis/SL/Xatalos/HtS?
Maybe. I would prefer SL or Xatalos instead of you. But I prefer you to HTS / Arta.
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On November 07 2015 19:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 19:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 07 2015 19:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 07 2015 19:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 07 2015 19:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 07 2015 18:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 07 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I really think you should pick Rels. You will never get this team yay-voted. Why do you suddenly think Rels is town? Because it doesn't make sense that 2 sscum voted nay and Shockeyy is 100% scum. I can see it making sense. When scum scumread players on the suggested team, they can't yayvote regardless of what they want. Shockey scumread you and xata and rels scumread you and SL. Even if they wanted to yayvote, they couldn't given their reads. Though I guess I can see how Rels' scumread on both of you came after the team was already nominated, so it was a choice and he didn't really need to turn around and do that. I need to check if he scumread SL before the team was suggested now. I mean like if you look at the things from my perspective: If i assume you are town (or from your perspective -- if you assume i am town), the Xatalos/rayn/SL team is probably the best mafia can get. I don't believe any of Rels/kitaman/Superbia is dumb enough to not realise that, given that the next two leaders are you and me. If the mission gets nay-voted, you will probably pick yourself (town), me (town) and someone else (possibly town). It just doesn't make any sense for any of them to downvote the mission (which is also accepted by townies). It doesn't even matter if the mafia is SL or Xatalos, if you wanna go down that road (that Xatalos is scum). Shockeyy has already proven he has no idea what he is doing anyways. And i highly doubt Xatalos, as scum, would pick two scum onto the mission, and i know, if i was scum, i would downvote the mission with 2 scum in it, because it is highly likely that none of the three people will get picked onte the next missions and suddenly you have 6 players where only one is mafia, and people won't even listen to you as you were on a mission that failed. It is just bad play to nominate 2 scum onto a mission, i know i am not mafia, so there has to be exactly 1 mafia on the mission. I agree that Kita and Superbia are likely town, ergo why I nominated them. I just don't think you can make it as clear cut as "they voted no so they're likely town". You establish reads during the game and if you yay-vote a team where you scumread 1-2 people on it, you're basically outing yourself. I don't think it clears him for that reason. I also don't think you can downvote the mission if you townread everyone on it. That just doesn't make any sense. I know Rels scumread Superbia and HtS before the mission went on. idk who was his third scumread at that time. Me? or SL?
I was suspicious of Xata around the time of team nomination, until I did that filter length analysis.
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On November 08 2015 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis.....
Yes there is a big chance HTS and Arta are both scum.
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On November 08 2015 02:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:34 Rels wrote:On November 08 2015 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis..... Yes there is a big chance HTS and Arta are both scum. but you want to send your scumread from mission one.
Look, you asked me a question, I answered. I would prefer anyone to HTS / Arta who both voted for a team that:
- didn't include them
- failed
If you had asked me "what team would I send", I wouldn't answer the same way.
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On November 08 2015 02:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:37 Rels wrote:On November 08 2015 02:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 02:34 Rels wrote:On November 08 2015 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis..... Yes there is a big chance HTS and Arta are both scum. but you want to send your scumread from mission one. Look, you asked me a question, I answered. I would prefer anyone to HTS / Arta who both voted for a team that: - didn't include them - failed If you had asked me "what team would I send", I wouldn't answer the same way. well if you think i am the mafia from mission one you should never want to send me onto a mission over anyone who was not on the first mission.
You are the most likely mafia atm. I could be wrong. What I know if there is a big chance HTS / Arta are both scum, and 99% one of them is scum; the 1% being the situation where two scums were on the team D1. I cannot imagine two scums voting NO to a team containing a scum, especially since the vote was that close.
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On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 01:04 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 06:30 Rels wrote:@rayn from your huge wall: On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The fact is, if you read Rels' posts in this light, there is literally way way way more things that are just plain out fucking scummy. Expand. On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Now the point of all this was a couple of things: - Rels; i didn't learn anything, although he called my logic "twisted", and i still don't know why. maybe he explains it someday, as there is nothing twisted in my logic. (i am pretty sure Xatalos & Artanis see what i was after here) - ShoCkeyy; i don't really care since he is scum anyways, but he thinks i am scum (regardless of what he tries to say -- he does), so why does he accept a team proposed by scum? Like.. if i was scum i would put a teammate there, obviously, i am not stupid. - regarding you, i wanted to push your reads out, because i was annoyed of you not giving any concrete reads. I know you would never agree to this regardless of who is mafia and regardless of your alignment. The thing that confuses me is that you kinda called me scummy for it, when there is literally no scum motivation for me to do that (i actually did a similar "anti-town" thing in Nuclear Winter mafia (which never had any anti-town motivation that anyone could explain) -- and caught Ace pants down on N1  ). Your logic is twisted because the goal of the game is to pass mission, not fail them. I clearly said there is a town motivation behind your proposal though. So I don't understand why I'm on that list ? Expand. - Your read on ShoCkeyy is basically "he does scummy things so he is town" - Your read on me at the start of the game - Your push on Superbia - You not considering kitaman scum, when there was really no reason to think he is town - There are more things after you posted here, but they are irrelevant to this. Basically all this is in my filter. Yet you are incapable of finding these things out on your own.
I ask because just before you were pushing on the fact that my cases were "boring", which you don't list here.
Every point on this list has been explained:
- shockey's read is NOT "he does scummy things so he is town"; it's "if shockey is scum, he's playing to lose the game".
- my push on you at the start of the game was logical;
- Superbia's attack on Xata was not based on logic and was over the top for the beginning of the game. It makes no sense that you townread him at that point
- I played with mafia!kita in Personality mafia; he layed low but provided good analysis on weak people, so we would mislynch them. Here he is laying low and providing good analysis, but on strong townies, which is super different
On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You were on the list because the proposal was literally towards you, kitaman and Shockeyy. I am not calling you scum for it. What the fuck are you even talking about? If i do a reaction test towards three people it's only natural i post what i learned ON THOSE THREE PEOPLE...... Like are you stupid or something?
OK that's fair.
On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 01:18 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 01:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like Rels, the fucking conversation you referred to is really fucking straight forward. Somehow you manage to not understand it at all.
This is why i don't answer stupid questions. I don't want to waste time on fucking bullshit that doesn't have anything to do with anything. THE POST I WAS REFERRING TO IS IN THE NESTED QUOTES AND IT WAS VERY FUCKING CLEAR WHERE I WAS REFERRING TO BECAUSE IT IS IN THE SAME FUCKING CONVERSATION.
You make easy things hard. Stop. No. You are either wrong or scum. You cannot think my scum game is PUSHING THREAD LEADERS. So if you're town, go reread my scum games and come back admitting you've made a mistake. If you're scum, feel free to do whatever. Yes i can think think that. I also used to try to antagonize marv in every game i was scum in, just because i wanted to throw him off his game until he lynches me, until i stopped doing that. It's like... defending your actions that do not make any sense by saying "i wouldn't do that as scum" is really weak Rels. It is a fact you, at the start of the game, read me scum for something you weren't even sure is true (and it wasn't). That's not how townies usually operate. You don't "guess" if something (that can be proven) is true and call people scum for it. That is just stupid. Furthermore you were trying to prove my meta wrong by using a game where you were a third faction. Because you were anti-town doesn't mean you were playing to your scum meta, especially when i fucking know you were LEGIT TRYING TO SCUMHUNT IN THAT GAME!!!!
I'm not you though. And I was sure copcake was mafia in that game. But OK, as long as you say "it's possible" and not "it makes you scum" it's understandable.
On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 01:20 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 01:18 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 06 2015 01:15 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 01:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Fucking easiest thing to find in kitaman's filter. On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:[quote] yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right? Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game. Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia. Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.". somehow you didn't manage to figure it out. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. You know as scum I push for the easy targets. You've played or hosted all the games I've been scum / 3P. So it makes no sense you would say this in response: On November 03 2015 18:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 18:21 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 18:16 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 18:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went. That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win. This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit). I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around. I don't give any fucks. You do scummy shit in this game. You are scum. One of the questions you didn't answer is "expand". So do it. The third is "why am I on a list on people failing the 'rayn's plan is scummy!' test when I said it was town motivated ?" The fourth is "do you really picture me and HTS scum together ?" 3) I said i failed to learn anything. Which means you didn't do anything scummy. I am a bit puzzled how you don't manage to read the post that way.... Like what do you think i meant? 4) Yes at that time i thought it was a possibility. I never said it is impossible for scum to bus. I said it is situational, and bussing at the start of the game is NOT a valid scum strategy (when you don't know how people's reads evolve -- who townies read as scum). However when YOU did scumread HtS there was already thread sentiment where some people thought HtS could be scum, so i don't find that impossible at all, especially when you YOURSELF say you would maybe bus as mafia.... Ironically now, you made a post on HtS where the reasoning for your scumread on her is exactly what i said days ago, yet you also scumread me. Now can you stop asking retarded questions from me? Also can you stop thinking HtS/rayn/Superbia is the scumteam because that's also retarded. Can you stop being retarded if you are town?
Do you still view it at a possibility then ?
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On November 08 2015 02:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
do you have any opinions on anything?
like real opinions? gameplaywise?
I'm catching up bro. No worries you wish will be granted when I'm done.
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On November 08 2015 02:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:50 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 06 2015 01:04 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 06:30 Rels wrote:@rayn from your huge wall: On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The fact is, if you read Rels' posts in this light, there is literally way way way more things that are just plain out fucking scummy. Expand. On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Now the point of all this was a couple of things: - Rels; i didn't learn anything, although he called my logic "twisted", and i still don't know why. maybe he explains it someday, as there is nothing twisted in my logic. (i am pretty sure Xatalos & Artanis see what i was after here) - ShoCkeyy; i don't really care since he is scum anyways, but he thinks i am scum (regardless of what he tries to say -- he does), so why does he accept a team proposed by scum? Like.. if i was scum i would put a teammate there, obviously, i am not stupid. - regarding you, i wanted to push your reads out, because i was annoyed of you not giving any concrete reads. I know you would never agree to this regardless of who is mafia and regardless of your alignment. The thing that confuses me is that you kinda called me scummy for it, when there is literally no scum motivation for me to do that (i actually did a similar "anti-town" thing in Nuclear Winter mafia (which never had any anti-town motivation that anyone could explain) -- and caught Ace pants down on N1 ). Your logic is twisted because the goal of the game is to pass mission, not fail them. I clearly said there is a town motivation behind your proposal though. So I don't understand why I'm on that list ? Expand. - Your read on ShoCkeyy is basically "he does scummy things so he is town" - Your read on me at the start of the game - Your push on Superbia - You not considering kitaman scum, when there was really no reason to think he is town - There are more things after you posted here, but they are irrelevant to this. Basically all this is in my filter. Yet you are incapable of finding these things out on your own. I ask because just before you were pushing on the fact that my cases were "boring", which you don't list here. Every point on this list has been explained: - shockey's read is NOT "he does scummy things so he is town"; it's "if shockey is scum, he's playing to lose the game". - my push on you at the start of the game was logical; - Superbia's attack on Xata was not based on logic and was over the top for the beginning of the game. It makes no sense that you townread him at that point - I played with mafia!kita in Personality mafia; he layed low but provided good analysis on weak people, so we would mislynch them. Here he is laying low and providing good analysis, but on strong townies, which is super different - then tell me how my case on shockeyy is not him doing scummy things please. - no it was not, it never was, you even fucking said so yourself - that is debatable, and this is "i said you said" so i am not gonna argue about this - on strong townies? like who? me? or Xatalos? by your definition his analysis on strong players are wrong (except for you -- if you consider yourself strong), so how does that make him town again? I am pretty sure my case on you came after this so it has nothing to do with THIS QUESTION you posed to me.
- I have no idea what is your case on shockey, I suppose I will find it eventually.
- It was, the quote I was thinking about was wrong, but the idea was logical
- OK
- yes, you and Xatalos. He never did something like that in Personality. Actually he did the opposite; I remember being so mad rereading the game at one point, when I was like "mm maybe we should gather every player' read evolution on XXX", and he did it in 10 minutes with a lot of quotes, it was soooo townie I was like "thanks mate!". Here, he is proactive, not reactive.
OK maybe I messed up the timing.
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On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Last time i am going to post this:
Here is why ShoCkeyy is mafia:First of all these things go together: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. Xatalos is null -> that means he has to townread the people i colored green in the post. There is no other possible way he says this. On November 03 2015 22:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission? Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you... Townreads on kitaman and Rels. On November 04 2015 04:52 ShoCkeyy wrote:
@kita you summed it up here:
"He doesn't seem comfortable giving out statements which he isn't confident about. This could either mean that truly isn't sure and wants more time until it is clear or that he doesn't want to make a statement that could backfire later on in the game."
And also, I have been looking into rayn's previous games. Another thing, I don't need to be on a team, I already know I'm town, so when ever I do get on a team I'll be a 33% chance that it will pass. My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Look at the bolded part in this post for further reference. On November 05 2015 02:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/l8XDS/c5b4b0ac75.png) Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much. Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose. You missed that I town read you and rels also. Another thing, why would I say I don't need to get on a team if I was mafia? Wouldn't I want to be on a team if I was mafia in order to sabotage?... You guys don't make any sense. I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work. Now from these posts we can gather the following: Everyone except rayn/Xatalos/sicklucker is townreads. I don't give a fuck if the dude says "i didn't actually say that" because that is just bullshit. If he townreads five people and he is himself town that literally means he thinks the rest of the people are likely to be mafia. Now let's go to this, what i bolded earlier: Show nested quote +My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Okay so in his opinion, he has found the townies. This doesn't go along with how he ACTUALLY votes for the HtS team. For two reasons: 1) He "knows" there is scum on the team. In fact he should assume there is two scum (me/Xatalos). Yet he still votes yes, while earlier on saying he will refuse that team. 2) Now if he wants to be "tricky" and yay-vote the team because there are 2 scum in it, that would be okay. But that's not why he says he yay-voted it (i could have somehow understood that explanation). To elaborate further onto this all. Shockeyy was okay with there being 1 scum on the team while saying his current focus is finding town -- that doesn't really go along with what he said earlier. A reasonable explanation for the yay-vote should have been "in fact it's better that there are 2 or even 3 scum on the team, as long as we don't send any of those people onto further mission". That's not however his explanation.
This entire section is based on the assumption that the first team contained rayn / Xata. Unless I've been mistaken for a few days, the first team was HTS / Superbia / rayn.
Why made you think the first team was Xata / rayn / (I assume HTS) ?
On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Onto Xatalos' team. In Shockeyy's opinion this mission had three scum in it. Yet he refused to yay-vote it. Again, his stance is: Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 23:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:Idk why it's so hard for people to understand I knew the votes would be visible... Also it's not hard to look through my filter. On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. The lineup when I voted was HtS, Xata and Kita, which I was perfectly fine with. Also, a bit more on my strategy. Losing the first one is a big deal to me, because then we have 1 out of 3 that have to be mafia. We just do not ever send any of them to any missions. After there will be three missions that are ready to be won since the fourth one needs at least 2 mafia members and we know of already one by then who hasn't gone on any other missions. Obviously there will be two more, as well, but with this game dragging out, it'll eventually be easy to spot them. ... now if he actually believes all of me/Xatalos/SL are mafia, he should upvote this team. Just because then we don't send any of them into further mission --> the town wins, since the town will automatically pick 4 town whoever they pick. Then when the mission passes, the same team gets picked again. Then when the mission passes who cares who is picked onto mission 4. The other possibility is he doesn't actually townread the people he says he townreads, which also doesn't make any sense.
Dont' know how you can arguee voting NO to a team you think contains three scums is scum indicative. At least I didn't get it reading this.
On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- His approach to how he votes doesn't line up with WHY he acts in some way in some situations and in another way in other situations.
- He doesn't really give any reasoning to his reads. The only reasoning he gives is the scumreads on me and Xatalos, and "he is angry", "they are in the thread at the same time", "they both suspected Rels" is not a reason to scumread anyone.
- When he is called out of his reads, he says "i didn't really call you scum" -- i think everyone can see why this is literally bullshit, kitaman already pointed this out.
The only scum indicative thing here is the "I didn't really call you scum" part, which could be seen as scum not wanting to commit to a read. The first one is logical from his POV (if the first team go and fails, rayn is confirmed scum; then voting NO to an all scum team). The second one doesn't mean anything unless it's also a meta read ?
Well I was not convinced. And you don't talk about the fact that:
- shockey is playing to lose if he's scum, as a team with him has a very small chance to be accepted
- he voted NO to a team containing one scum. It's just not logical he's still your #1 scumread (if he's not anymore, my bad)
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On November 07 2015 21:58 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 21:56 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, I'm having a tough time following your read on Superbia. From reading your filter.
Can you explain to me in a few sentences:
(1) what made him scummy to you the first cycle
(2) what makes you hesistant (based on post 1590) to have him on a team now. hes lurking like his mafia meta. all i remember him doing is putting my name in the mud. Kinda what scum is expected to do to the fall guy..
I liked Superbia's posts after the failure team, but I disliked the fact that he's lurking so much. Here you mention it's his scum meta ? Does he really have a tendency to lurk as scum ?
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On November 07 2015 22:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels. I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
Wait a minute. When did that happen again ? Last time I remember you saying stuff about me, I was "null / fear read", 'cause you found out my scum meta. When did I become scum and why ?
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On November 07 2015 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 07 2015 22:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels. I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata) IT doesn't even matter if the team gets yay'd or not. It forces sicklucker to give actual reads (as now he is just hiding behind "i will nay everything with Xata/rayn in it") and we'll hear something new from Shockeyy unless he wants that team to go on a mission. Basically if i am on the mission two of the people i think are mafia have a bullshit reason to downvote it and continue saying nothing on other people. Hmmmm It seems very risky though. And I don't like the idea of nominating a team I think likely has a spy.
On November 07 2015 22:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 22:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 07 2015 22:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If there is 1 scum in you/xata/sl, and I think there likely is, that means there's 2 scum in Rels/HtS/Shockeyy/Superbia/Kita and I have to select the exact 3 townies from the 5. That seems like a much harder task than selecting the player I have a strong townread on from the mission that failed. I know but the current concensus seems to be only to talk about people who are nominated atm. You can change your mind, but let's see what those people have to say about the team i proposed. Okay, fair enough. I have a concert tonight though so my final team will probably be submitted around like 17:45 GMT (+00:00) unless I read enough on mobile to change my mind by the end of it. ##Nominate Artanis[Xp], Rels, kitaman27, Superbia
THAT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE
1 - unless I missed it, you didn't explain why you thought I was scum
2 - you're nominating a team that you think will fail just because rayn told you ? The only explanation I see is that you're scum trying to pass a failure team, put the blame on me (Haha I told you so!) and on rayn (but rayn told me to do that!).
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On November 07 2015 22:37 Half the Sky wrote:
Eh, I'm voting any team with Rels down on it. The previous team was definitely better.
Even Rels aside, there should be some discussion on Superbia, whom some people are having doubts on.
Enjoy the concert though.
I could understand you dodging questions when you were working super hard during the week. I can even confirm that is true.
But two days ago, then yesterday, I asked you the same question, and I find it super hard to believe you missed it two times when you're free now.
So, if only to ease me, can you answer ?
On November 07 2015 09:18 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 08:10 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, I know I said sicklucker was the most likely since he was the "least town" but I think especially because the first mission (!!!) failed, it really might be worth our while to tinfoil rayn and Xatalos to make sure we didn't miss anything. Can you explain this ? Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 18:22 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:
Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata. That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
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On November 07 2015 22:59 Half the Sky wrote:Alright, I knew I wasn't going crazy. Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 22:10 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 22:03 Xatalos wrote:
Rels, thoughts on the current team? rayn and you are town. SL I'm not sure. Nothing scummy, but he's not doing much. Arta tomorrow will probably elect you / rayn / him; my vote will depend on who I think is towniest between SL and Arta at deadline. Waiting on Arta's answers to me + his analysis on me he said he would do.
That was not rayn's point. rayn's point was that I started scumreading him during the voting phase, when I already had an excuse to vote NO with my view on SL at the time, if voting NO was my goal.
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EPT
