EPTI answered Rels' questions, I got Artanis's earlier, if I missed yours, flag me. I read the last 10 pages and I don't think I missed any more.
Since Rels is up for debate, I'll prioritise him over the Xata meta analysis...
[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31 - Page 13
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I answered Rels' questions, I got Artanis's earlier, if I missed yours, flag me. I read the last 10 pages and I don't think I missed any more. Since Rels is up for debate, I'll prioritise him over the Xata meta analysis... | ||
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On November 08 2015 12:00 ShoCkeyy wrote: How about you talk to me on how Xata and rayn both still town read each other and attack SL after the first mission? Alright, fair play, I actually saw one of your first quotes prior to that contention on that and there was a question that sort of popped up. Hold tight... | ||
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On November 08 2015 12:00 ShoCkeyy wrote: How about you talk to me on how Xata and rayn both still town read each other and attack SL after the first mission? Actually re-read this - the quick answer to this is Xatalos being suspicious based on how quickly he did it. I brought this point up discussing sicklucker and I went into detail citing two posts where I suspected Xatalos could be scum for this. rayn I have a slightly different take which I was going to do a separate walkthrough. I was planning on doing a Xata meta read analysis - as mafia Xatalos has shallower reads (and the last post I just cited from him sorta scares me tbh. But long story shot I think a number of the things you cited with rayn is (mostly) NAI. I'll try and explain why. | ||
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On November 08 2015 12:06 Half the Sky wrote: rayn I have a slightly different take which I was going to do a separate walkthrough. I was planning on doing a Xata meta read analysis once I need to get through with Rels - as Rels on the current nominated team is up for vote - as mafia Xatalos has shallower reads (and the last post I just cited from him sorta scares me tbh. But long story shot I think a number of the things you cited with rayn is (mostly) NAI. I'll try and explain why. | ||
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Now. This is the one. Now before I begin, a few things, just hear me out, I realise the entire game is scumreading me but I am going to explain point by point why most of what you are saying here is actually NAI on rayn. 1 rayn pushing for you hard to be scum is NAI. Here's why. As town, his tunnels are beyond brutal and sometimes beyond ridiculous, you ask any player (particularly the suboptimal towns or commonly scumread towns) he just assumes that logical = town, illogical = mafia. It has gotten townies mislynched and in Drams mafia left him alive (reference the mafia qt for that game) because he was massively wrong, and his attitude was destructive and created chaos for town. Other games where his tunnels have been criticised include Tropical Storm (GlowingBear? Damdred? I forget who), Drams (with rsoultin), Titanic 7 (myself), SOTW (with LightningStrike, etc), the list goes on. Now as mafia, the agenda is pretty obvious. If you're town, you are an easy player to push. But the point here was to discuss how his pushing you can be his town mentality. You may not trust my meta read, but at least two others have mentioned the "logical = town, illogical = mafia" and reading his comments on the game in Drams should shed some light on how he operates. (posts 1565 and 66) 2 That said. #1 lends him to talking to absolutes. Kita and myself have both mentioned this, which stems from the whole "logical = town, illogical = mafia" thing. From a mafia perspective you can argue if you want that they are buddying each other. Highlighting the quotes that show appeasement or TMI (usually after a prior scumread or as sicklucker said, Xatalos townread rayn almost immediately) would better help the rest of town see this if you are town. From a town mentality - again, this is meta, he always thinks he's right and he spent multiple points meta-reading and going into detail why Xatalos was town. See posts 222 (first read), 685, 760/761 (first explanation), 850 (shocking absolute statement - Xatalos is confirmed town), 1018 (this is partial meta, admittedly I couldn't trust it because I have yet to play a game with Xatalos is town). In all fairness, sicklucker who has a more erratic game, and is more difficult to read as either alignment is obvously never going to be townread as town, or at least not as easily. But based on all these posts he's made on Xata, he's not going to believe he's wrong or think he's wrong given the comp. The support WAS there. He won't consider for a second that Xatalos is (1) breaking meta (2) or taking advantage of suboptimal townies. TLDR - he just could be dead wrong and is too damned stubborn to admit it TLDR - possible town mentality is based in his stubbornness and his town tunnels are well known to be brutal, so what you are saying - yes again, meta, but I've given you multiple reference points - doesn't necessarily make him mafia. It just makes him ridiculously wrong. You haven't played enough games with him (and maybe that's a good thing? I digress) but this is what other players have cited. | ||
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(disclaimer: I'm avoiding any quotes/reads he's directed on me so that I remove any omgus issues or bias) Post 318 (and separately 330) - On November 02 2015 22:28 Rels wrote: Now I think you're town. You're being active and you meddle with everything in the thread, exactly like in the game I'm hosting. Could potentially be a bad read, but at face value for someone who's never played with Xatalos it's not a terrible or misleading read. Post 371 is pretty towny - it was tenuous as fuck but once I saw that Superbia had quoted the word nightmare and taking the entire thing in context, it's clear that he's seeing not a "nightmare" and "somewhat anti-scum" as too different things, although reading the exact words Superbia probably just saw him as exaggerating how difficult the game was. Could be an English language issue, who knows. Still can't argue this makes Rels look town. Post 578 - seems like he agrees with the meta read on Xata being town. Post 664 - Xatalos is described as maybe town. He seemed more confident in #318 so unless I missed it somewhere I can't follow how he became less confident. Given my current stance on Xatalos, this could be an issue. Minor atm, but something to note. Figures, after 4am so I'm going to stop here :/ | ||
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On November 08 2015 13:25 sicklucker wrote: hts just vote no on every nomination. I have the 5th and last nominationo f the cycle so I will just put a team of you and me and they cant vote it down Interesting thought, I see where you are going with this, but still this means we have to find 3 other people we're confident in if we get that far. It can't hurt for me to progress on Rels when I next get the chance to, you can't ignore he will come up before that 5th nomination. And Shockey, like I said, it's meta. I understand completely if you don't trust it, the only way you will truly understand is by playing and/or observing multiple games with rayn. I tried giving multiple reference points via others in other games so that you can at least see that I'm not saying this just to townread him - this is just how he is as town. And unfortunately as he's even said to me, he won't blame the loss of the game on himself, he'll only blame it on the scummy looking townies (or looking at that situation in isolation, in that case, sicklucker). 4:30am...I'm out. Night lovelies. | ||
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Back to filtering Rels. Kita, I have a null to oh-so-slight townread on Superbia. But Kita, other than me, who else are you scumreading? | ||
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Kita, I have a question. You are aware that sicklucker is tough to follow as either alignment and he contradicts himself a lot as either alignment. And if I recall correctly as town, you made a similar mistake to mislynch him in JOAT, and I did too (granted I was third party but I was looking to lynch mafia that day) we had trouble figuring him out. So how do you know you are not making the same mistake again? Why do you think his contradicting himself is mafia motivated? (or do you?) Or are you also partially scumreading sicklucker on the basis of other things? | ||
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And no I think I understood what you were trying to ask. | ||
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On November 03 2015 01:01 Rels wrote: I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before. (I'm going to assume you actually meant "mafia" by the bolded and that was a mistake) On November 03 2015 01:37 Rels wrote: Cause he's attacking people over logical things, has hard townreads and is trying to solve the game as a whole. That's his town meta. I'm OK with him being part of the first team. Regarding your read progression on rayn, how were you sure day 1 that the above was town indicative (and not mafia) and how were you sure enough that "hard townreads" however they were, weren't mafia indicative? It is quite possible IMO for mafia to have hard townreads. (Now I realise you said meta, but how do you know - and especially for a player of that calibre - he's not breaking meta?) Post references - 448/496. (pages 5-6 of your filter) | ||
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On November 09 2015 06:40 Rels wrote: OK basically you're saying that's possible two mafias are voting no because they know two townies that are not on the team will vote YES, so they can disassociate; in this case, you're saying they knew you and Arta would vote YES. This is correct. I won't speak for Artanis but I thought I was pretty clear where I stood with who and how I'd vote certain teams. I mentioned at least twice this game (not sure if it was before or after the second mission vote tbh) that I was more concerned about being transparent as well. | ||
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You said that Superbia lurking was akin to his town meta? Can you name any other games offhand that this would apply? I remember you said sometime in another game (campus mafia) he played a cancerous game but was he inactive in that game or any other you can remember? His posting as far as I can see - and with Xatalos discouraging his inclusion day 1 - I am pretty sure he's town. Where are you seeing his inactivity as alignment indicative? | ||
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On November 09 2015 06:43 Half the Sky wrote: sicklucker are you here? You said that Superbia lurking was akin to his town meta? Can you name any other games offhand that this would apply? I remember you said sometime in another game (campus mafia) he played a cancerous game but was he inactive in that game or any other you can remember? His posting as far as I can see - and with Xatalos discouraging his inclusion day 1 - I am pretty sure he's town. Where are you seeing his inactivity as alignment indicative? EBWOP. Yikes, the bolded should actually be mafia not town. You said that Superbia lurking was his mafia meta....etc. | ||
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On November 09 2015 06:45 Rels wrote: Pretty sure he said it was his scum meta. Like 90% sure. Yeah I know I actually corrected myself (#1955)  | ||
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On November 09 2015 06:47 Rels wrote: Alright going to sleep now. Have fun with my filter. (= Artanis; that's two times you postponed something to talk the day after. You better explain your thought process the minute you come back to the thread after voting is done. Could it be because he's scumreading you? IDK. | ||
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