EPT[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31 - Page 12
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On November 07 2015 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: HtS do you really think Rels and Shockeyy both voted nay as scum? Why? I brought disassociation up with Xata before but it was tinfoil for one player let alone two. That aside, their reads? I know Shockey was scumreading anyone who was scumreading him or at least heavily suspicious of you. And Rels was scumreading sicklucker or at least doubtful on him - if SL is town he's an easy guy to push. So for either of them to vote otherwise would fly in the face of how their reads were and they would have an unexplained change in reads. Or an unexplained change in reasoning, which scum generally want to keep things together on. If I had to go with the theory that only one of those people coudl be scum, since you are saying it's unlikely two scum voted no, then I'd probably say Rels over Shockey but that would mean that one of them is playing very suboptimally (and I know neither has played this type of game so this is quite possible) and I'd have to really look at both from the bottom up to determin that. | ||
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On November 07 2015 22:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Fair enough. What exactly made you decide to vote yes on the mission? Same thing I told Kita. At the time I was TRing Xata/Rayn and sicklucker like I said was 60/40 on him even though I was more sure on you. My scumreads at the time were Rels/Shockey/TBD. Seeing Rels and Shockey also downvoting the team, made me think that scum were downvoting the mission. It's possible given their reads, but I will probably need to re-evaluate those two. | ||
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On November 05 2015 22:10 Rels wrote: rayn and you are town. SL I'm not sure. Nothing scummy, but he's not doing much. Arta tomorrow will probably elect you / rayn / him; my vote will depend on who I think is towniest between SL and Arta at deadline. Waiting on Arta's answers to me + his analysis on me he said he would do. | ||
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On November 07 2015 22:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's not what i asked. Way to talk about something completely different that i in fact asked..... So your reasoning is "because they would then have unexplained change in reads". I believe Rels is good enough to figure a way out here -- especially if, as you claim, Xatalos is scum. Like if that is the case, i am 100% certain Rels could have found a reason to townread sicklucker -- because sicklucker would ACTUALLY be town (and he townread me + Xatalos anyways, before the team nomination went out). As I said, I could be wrong on Rels so I have to start from scratch on him. The argument you are presenting is that Rels doesn't have TMI (or however you said it) on SL, but this is also based on your pre-conceived notion that sicklucker actually IS scum. If Rels is scum, he doesn't just have to TMI sicklucker, there are other ways. Let's say that SL is town, and that somehow you're wrong on Xata (and you've been wrong on reads before, so don't say you aren't wrong). Surely you can entertain the slightest possibility that you are wrong. | ||
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On November 07 2015 22:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: That was regarding you saying "sicklucker would be an easy target to put the blame on". If you think that's true then "Rels is also pushing rayn now" doesn't make any fucking sense, or should not make any sense in your world from scum!Rels perspective. Eh, he has a good scumgame. If you're playing suboptimally and any good scum player wants to take advantage of that, they can. Rels has shown as either alignment (as mafia SOTW) he's not afraid of clashing with people. You've been wrong on him twice now in other games, but that's besides the point. That said I am generically wary of two spies voting no so I'll go ahead and re-eval Rels anyhow. If I think I have cause to be wrong then I'll state my reasons why and then wind up upvoting the team. | ||
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On November 07 2015 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Basically HtS, if you are town, you should be really hard pushing someone from the mission 1 onto this team because i will not accept any team that does include you. We both agree on Shockeyy, I don't accept Rels as mafia as per what i said, so why is someone else on the mission scum? And who from the first mission should be included? If you don't think you can do that, then i am inclined to think you are scum. The quick version if you couldn't tell already is pushing you, between you and sicklucker I would put you on the team. | ||
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On November 07 2015 23:36 Superbia wrote: Rayn can be independent scum. I don't believe Xatalos can be. That's literally just a feeling. I don't think town-rayn can be fooled so hard so easily. Rels fooled him two games in a row (SOTW then Drams) Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... | ||
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On November 07 2015 23:23 Superbia wrote: Actually barely have time today, unfortunately. Imo we have to find out which of the three is scum (maybe more). We can't exclude all 3 of them in the team, because if we get a fail we're essentially fucked in the ass. In my world Xatalos is either exclusively with rayn or not scum (though rayn could be independently scum). SL is a fucked-up case, as I really can't see him in the team ever again. His reactions don't help. My other problem is that Artanis/HtS are both on the yes votes despite not being on the team, which kind of means I don't want to include them on the team. The team I would suggest would be: Rayn/Xatalos/Superbia/Kita (or perhaps Artanis instead of Kita, since Kita could be with SL- I'm still a little stuck on who the last member would be- probably someone who is/was on the raynistown-train). Which means that if this team produces a fail rayn would probably be for sure mafia. Yes, I understand that this could be a set up if I'm mafia myself, but get fucked. So to re-iterate: we cannot make a team which excludes all members of the first team at this point in time, as a fail would mean absolutely fuck all. I also know that people had some questions for me: rayn and rels. Rels I don't remember your question so please restate it asap (maybe I'll find it after this post). Rayn, I stated that I had the willies on you and HtS even though you both felt town. I've explained this I believe. Why do you think Xatalos could be town? Read what I posted on him and tell me if you think that makes any sense. | ||
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On November 07 2015 23:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: So now there are three four who can't understand the fact that I NEVER PUSHED SL TO BE ON THE TEAM!!!! fucking retarded. I quoted two quotes where you clearly did, yes you said otherwise earlier, but there's a reason now why multiple peple are saying this. We all can't be scum rayn....or insane for that matter  | ||
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On November 08 2015 04:07 Rels wrote: HTS you mentioned two times you will do a shallowness evaluation of Xata to know his alignement. But you didn't do it; you hard townread it before the failure; and you are now scumreading it. All of this happened without any shallowness analysis. 1 - Did I miss it ? 2 - If not, why are you scumreading him without it ? And will you do it ? On mobile. I took a comparison of scumreads in response to Kita's question and I made two posts and a few points. I cited the specific posts in my filter and asked people to comment. Superbia looked in it IIRC and couldn't make up his mind on Xata. | ||
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It's a start, it is not a full analysis. I went through SLs read progression and it seemed fine to me and whilst Rayn is stubborn as fuck he's probably town. That is the start. I mean here's the thing, first missions failing means town are doing very badly, you haven't played resistance so you probably may not realise this but scum having the gumption to fail the first mission means we are having a shit time or going to have a shit time figuring out the scum in mission 1 and its showing. For obvious reasons I'm going to have little to no say on the team so I am left with making sure my vote is a good one. I have to do an analysis on you at SOME point because as far as I'm concerned, town are playing a 5v3 game and if you (and especially Shockey) are town, this game is over. Because I will never make any mission team I either need to get out of a tunnel on you or fail to find town motivation in you or Xatalos. I've cased Xata before in another game, and I know you did some activity based analysis on Xata being town. However I know that activity meta CAN be broken and two of the games you cited his Mafia games were post restricted games (Carol, assassination) which is why I felt the read quality meta would be more effective. Now I need to actually get to doing it. I am trying to find pockets of time to work on one or the other. And I'm trying to not get discouraged despite rayn's overall toxicity to this game. I won't be the last. | ||
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Town failing first mission means we are doing very badly and generally in most situations most spies (at least in RL) don't have gumption to fail the first mission. The fact there is a failure and his lack of scepticism is a red flag, sicklucker I feel has an excellent point on assuming too easy of a fall guy. Do you think the least town read person, if scum is going to give himself away like that? Maybe people aren't understanding me but that is my perspective from having played in RL and the way this game is going, it goes against PPA but this is how townie looking scum win games. You have to look at all angles. | ||
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PPA - percentage play analysis I need to get to a PC but it's not happening until after deadline. Also people if I'm missing any questions (even yours Rels) flag me please. Even if I never get on a team if people can understand my direction on things, haphazard as it might be at least you'll consider the fact other people might be Mafia. (At least Superbia understood for a second why I'm playing a suboptimal game.) | ||
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The other three were fine by me. | ||
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So I saw this. I'll be honest, from this I actually cannot tell what you are asking, - I think you are asking me to make sense of why I think SL is sucking it up? I'll start by clarifying my statement. The "smart enough to suck it up and pass" comment was in relation to the fact that in RL resistance most three-person teams (mission 1) pass, based on my previous assumption that that three-person team was town and even with the conventional strategy that a scum would not want to give themselves away by failing the first mission. A scum SL (or scum anyone) would in theory be reluctant to pass that team. That comment was made BEFORE the mission failed. See page 67 of the game, and this was as Xatalos was talking about the no votes being scum votes. And that I was townreading xata/rayn at the time and making the assumption at that time the "least town" in sicklucker was mafia. (Posts 1334/1336) That was not in any way related to post-mission failure. If you read the comment in context on page 67, it should make more sense. | ||
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