EPT
/in
(although I'd prefer if the game didn't start before next Thursday or so... exams on Wednesday & Thursday)
[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience
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/in (although I'd prefer if the game didn't start before next Thursday or so... exams on Wednesday & Thursday) | ||
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On October 20 2015 04:46 Blazinghand wrote: I strongly prefer seperate thread, because it is easier for hosts 100% of the time (actually with the votecount tool it's easier without a seperate thread since you don't need to worry about posting phase cycle posts in another thread as well) | ||
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(I'd prefer if the start date wasn't before Wednesday though) | ||
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Another reminder: if a separate voting thread will be used, then also include messages like "Day 1", "Night 1" etc. in the voting thread so that the phase changes are noticed by the scanner. | ||
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rayn's dearest wish :D | ||
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It was only a joke | ||
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Tried to find the Mafia comic where people wore pants on their heads, but didn't find it. Would appreciate link. | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:09 Chromatically wrote: So protown Vivax. Are you feeling pressure, Xatalos? Heh. I'd imagine your question is based on an invalid assumption. | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:19 Chromatically wrote: And what would that be? The assumption that you're mafia? What did you think the "pressure" was referring to? | ||
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In the end, I think we're utterly doomed if we can't make a better than RNG lynch with this list of players.... It could be somehow feasible if the players were mostly inactive to get things rolling (lol) | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:25 Chromatically wrote: That's what I was originally asking. My first assumption was that you were feeling pressure now that the game's started. It was mainly referring to the pressure on the votecount tool (with the harsh voting rules requiring its perfect functioning etc.). Well, I'm pretty confident in it after so many test games. | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:30 Vivax wrote: We might already have caught mafia here since yammo doesn't reply in response to my phantastic intimidating presence. When he's afk he's mafia. Unbeatable logic. I think I've seen him be pretty inactive/useless as scum all around, and mostly OK as town. I think there was one(?) game where he was inactive/useless as town too though. | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:33 Blazinghand wrote: I mean, it is "psuedo-random", but calling it that doesn't actually say anything negative about its use here. It's like noting that a dice roll isn't always perfectly random, or that it's really hard to generate randomness using computer. Sure, the Random class in Java isn't great, and maybe this is less random, but still this is SUPER random, so random you'd have to do it probably hundreds of thousands of time before there was a problem, or alternatively, due it a few hundred times per second or something. It's random enough taht it's already way more random than it needs to be, and unlike literally all other attempts at RNG, it's provably not influenced by me. Well that's true. | ||
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Anyways I was under the impression that TL towns have mostly beaten RNG in recent years. | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:36 ritoky wrote: gumshoe might be mafia. Why? | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:38 Vivax wrote: That doesn't make any sense. Your reply isn't influenced by my alignment, only by yours. Besides you might reverse that and say that if I'm mafia one of us is going to die, which is good. Or that if I'm town it won't help get me lynched, which is also good. But you chose to be a party pooper. So you're mafia. Hmm.. Well, yamato's certainly not being very useful so far... | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:41 ritoky wrote: poorly explained response, forced joke, clear post editing, extra lines at the end of post. Clear post editing? I agree he's felt a bit "forced" with his entrance. | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:43 Blazinghand wrote: He has been super fatigued of rolling scum since he rolled scum for several games in a row. In the last game or two he rolled scum, he barely played and complained about wanting to be town. This game, if Marv is scum, he'll probably say/do nothing. If he's town expect him to be excited and energized about finally being able to be town and "recharge his batteries". Contrast Scum Marv that's on his game, who busts out hecka sweet moves. Marv's alignment should be obvious this game, even after he reads this post from me. in general, maybe, but 1. Not by much 2. the reasons I laid out (skilled scum players, vanilla setup without extra townies, etc) all apply here 3. even in setups where town does have these advantages, RNG is still a good idea. Why don't we sit down and discuss rayn's play so far? Is anyone else suspicious of his lack of contribution? LOL :D That last line was funny. I really liked the first part of your post though. Seems like town thinking through stuff. | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:17 gumshoe wrote: Because you feel he tried too hard to say something funny, and is therefore making a noticeable effort to try and blend in, or because you consider any anti chocolate agenda heresy? also not a bad idea ##vote vivax I guess you mean the difference between the earlier and latter part of this post and their style? | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:45 Blazinghand wrote: Okay if you're good at scum then that's even MORE argument for RNG! almost everyone here is good at scum! We'll never catch them D1 without lynching raynpelikoneet thanks for your support voting raynpelikoneet look, he's lurking even now, let's vote him Hahaha... Really rock solid reasoning :D It'd be funny if he came online and saw a big wagon on himself immediately. Just for that, I might even vote for him. | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:52 Blazinghand wrote: Honestly I kinda want to get the wagon rolling just for that (he would be SO mad hueheue), but it's probably more reasonably to let rayn make a token defense before we lynch him Just LOL :D | ||
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??? :D | ||
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On October 22 2015 06:56 gumshoe wrote: Theres no point to him trying to convince us to follow his lynch. RNG is viable when reads are shit, convincing town to rng lynch requires shit reads. The game has just begun therefore reads have not had the time to develop quality, which means bh does not yet posses his convince condition. In the absence of the means to convince us to choose his method, all he can do is argue how his is truly random. Because a mafia player who argues for an actual rng lynch is forfeiting his ability to protect his teammates (and potentially himself) from rng. A competent scumer would usually have faith in his ability to sway town one way or another, which means he probably wouldn't risk an rng team kill. Basically there are only 3 kinds of players who would propose this strat. 1) a player who is so insecure about his play, he is honestly proposing to just roll the dice instead of play(at least on day 1). This player could be town or scum. 2) A town player who is just using this as a means to prove his innocence "why would I risk killing myself or my teamies as mafia? I must be town!" this works sorta because your odds are quite low of hitting yourself and if you do then you can always say "well I know I'm town, so I'll just disregard this result" -_- 3) A scummer who believes that town will not actually rng lynch because it is objectively a bad strat compared to a really solid case/read. He must hope for this, because to a scummer the rng lynch can actually just backfire, since mafia as an entity operate on a clear pool of lives as opposed to towns mist of health. we can probally straight up rule out the first possibility (bh be goods not scrubs), which leaves 2 and 3. This whole thing seems pre written so hard to tell between them. Honestly best just to ignore the whole thing unless it gets to the point where our reads are so junk an rng lynch is actually more likely. ether way, I dont think bh expects us to actually straight up rng lynch, this was probably just a way to look active early on without actually offering substance (though it might draw substance out of others, which is always good) Well I think it's better than the standard "hi" / "I'm town" openings | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:03 ritoky wrote: as someone who impersonated BH recently, BH is town until he does something egregious enough to be considered not town. evidence: as mafia - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/481138-aperture-mafia-4-this-time-its-personal?user=Blazinghand http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?user=Blazinghand http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/449782-yuma-mini-mafia?user=Blazinghand as town - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/477800-vii-titanic-mini-mafia-i-have-a-cunning-plan?user=Blazinghand http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/468053-fantasy-football-ffl-mini?user=Blazinghand http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/461330-noir-mini-mafia-chapter-2?user=Blazinghand we done here? Not quite sure what the bolded means? | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:04 Chromatically wrote: I don't like ritoky so far. The stuff ritoky is saying to me is more of a "textbook" mafia tell that ends up not being very relevant in an actual game, coupled with the fact that he used it to jump on an easy target early on. From a mafia perspective, it would be easy to jump into the thread and give a "read" on someone like gumshoe based on a tell. Why do you think this post is town? I don't think it's alignment indicative. Hm... I still kind of like the active approach he had. It would be easier to just sheep / bandwagon / blend in without raising original topics as scum than to push an early case. | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:06 Vivax wrote: He used to be a very talkative townie, the walls o text type of townie. I think the policy lynch thingy was an exception, and seeing a wall of text posted makes me already feel better about him in this game. Hm... I've only ever seen him being semi-permanently AFK. | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote: generally speaking he doesn't rng as mafia, but i wouldn't put it past him to break meta. Is it really the case that he pushes RNG as town and not as scum? :D If so, that's a pretty ridiculous meta hahaha | ||
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Granted, he didn't really push for it or anything. Weirdly enough, you may be right >.> | ||
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Of course, rayn = scum. | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:19 ritoky wrote: town in descending order: alakaslam - lord of chupazi. hasn't posted. looked into his soul with eye of chupazi, have seen truth. blazinghand - chupazitron 40000, nuker of the brown bunker ritoky - apostle of chupazi, still in training xatalos - clicked on filter links LOL | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:26 Blazinghand wrote: "From the get go" --> I wasn't particularly thinking of using RNG, but it's one of my most useful tools for hunting and lynching scum. I'd say I use it more often than not nowadays when I play. When the game started, I was like "you know what would be great here? Given the setup and the player list, this is perfect for RNG" and then I did it. "pre written" --> I copied/pasted it from the last time I used RNG, then filled in the names and list size from this game. The second RNG post where I announced the result, I also copied/pasted, so in a sense, yes, this was prewritten "when did you think of random tl tag info?" --> I first thought of this idea in September of 2013, and I used it for the first time in November 2013. Since then I've used it probably 5-10 times in games here on TL. "would you have done this if you were mafia?" --> the answer to this question is always "yes". I'm willing to lie, cheat, steal, doctor photographs, put items in boxes, fake plane tickets, pretend to have depression, a death in the family, etc, whatever it takes to win regardless of alignment. I'm one of the few players that does not pull punches as mafia. So yes, as mafia, I'd be fully willing to RNG if I percieved it to be a good idea (which it isn't; I've outlined why RNG is pro-town this game) You need to go deeper. Shouldn't you pursue RNG as scum so that people think you're so pro-town? | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: wait Surprise | ||
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raynpelikoneet (3): Blazinghand, Xatalos, Vivax Not Voting (10): marvellosity, gumshoe, GlowingBear, Hopeless1der, raynpelikoneet, Onegu, Chromatically, Alakaslam, ritoky, yamato77 | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:13 Vivax wrote: Xatalos ritoky Blazinghand gumshoe Yamato: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://cdn.hitfix.com/photos/5621843/Grumpy-Cat.jpg) and rayn gets pranked Hm so you think gumshoe is lightly town? I guess his attempt at playing so far has been decent compared to my past experiences with him...... | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: no marv he is town, you too. Especially this | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: i wanna lynch gumshoe tbh. maybe that's just me. chromatically would be town if i had not been mafia with him b4. hmmm.. idk.... yamato yamato.... Have you played with gumshoe before when he has actually... you know, played? :D | ||
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And how would you characterize his meta? My experience has been basically "scummy lurker as either alignment". Would also like to know why you put ritoky as town as especially marv. | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: this. this is a big post of nonsense. Well that's true.... | ||
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On October 22 2015 07:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: ritoky said something that is townie. marv is a clear cut, cmon? (in b4 he calls me scum for this) The first sentence is super clear :D I think I had some heuristic for reading marv before but I lost it :D In any case, I think he's skilled enough to beat a heuristic I would think of... I think Blazinghand might have had a point with his post about marv probably being more excited if he rolled town here after playing many scum games or something (so far he's seemed relatively excited I guess). | ||
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On October 22 2015 08:02 Vivax wrote: The Finns invented some special way to read marv they don't want to share? ROFLMAO | ||
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On October 22 2015 08:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Chromatically is good as scum. I know it. idk... feel free to pressure, i don't mind. Yeah I think I thought he was town until the end in the GoT game. He played well there. | ||
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On October 22 2015 08:04 gumshoe wrote: this is basically you saying welcome back : D . I'll tldr the post. I think bh's argument for random makes sense coming out of scum only if you except town not to listen(or you can sabotage the rng) and makes sense out of town only if your trying to look substancey and dont actually think it'll come to a random lynch. So I dont think BH honestly wants an rng lynch / : cause that would be silly, even in a game with good scum. What does that say for his alignment? Not much at all. Basically at the time I didnt think bhs actions meant he was townie, just that he was being active and probably insincere. I might be totally wrong about but such is the risks of early reads. But yeah, rng is silly, case in point your on the chopping block right now for no reason. Do you think your scum? Do you think BH is derp? if no to both this statements then mine has at least as much chance to be true as there is to lynch into you and hit maf. Rather than reposting the useless post, why not share your opinions on something that matters? Like your reads? | ||
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On October 22 2015 08:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: no. if everyone else looked town i would have said that. Well that was my thought process, not yours Do you think his nonsense post was really scummy? | ||
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Literally Hitler... | ||
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On October 22 2015 08:15 Vivax wrote: I really hope for us that you aren't mafia with yamato or this is set to become a pretty sad game. yamato+gumshoe+Hopeless... the dream | ||
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On October 22 2015 08:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: atalos you're gonna go to see prodigy on Nov 3th? Nope? Not really a big follower of music/sports events. | ||
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On October 22 2015 08:39 marvellosity wrote: when does yamato leave the thread trying to look good as mafia lol :D:D Well he could well be scum, I just felt like Chromatically was the one out of them who fit better with the classic scum patterns of posting some semi-relevant questions / inconclusive posts without really sharing his own views. Well, there's the ritoky suspicion, but it was kind of a "question" as well. | ||
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On October 22 2015 08:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: no. i wanna know where i was a "meanie" because i am pretty sure i was not, ever, in this game. Haha I think he just meant that you've been mean before so you're generally a "meanie" | ||
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Every read had some "but... then..." moment haharayn: About BH, I'm not completely sure how I came to lean as strongly town on BH as on Vivax. It might not be as deserved as the townread on Vivax (on objective merits of meta etc.), I just felt (and actually still feel) that his level of effort and activity seemed more likely to come from town. The way he engaged people and seemed to have really thought about his own ideas... It didn't feel at all like a fake push trying to gather credibility. What's more, I skimmed through all the links ritoky provided and it was a common trend that BH pushed the idea of RNG lynching as town but didn't do that as scum. I think it's a minor meta point in BH's favor, even if it's not like it's impossible to fake something like that... I just didn't get the feeling it was fake. Well, did you? For the time being, I'm happy to put BH in the pile of non-lynchables. | ||
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I just wonder a bit what happened after the "reading on Xatalos's meta" bit? Did I miss something? | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: How i have to decide if you just said that terrible thing as town or mafia... I am a bit puzzled how could you actually believe Blazinghand would not do that as mafia. Not that he couldn't do it, but more likely not, based on him favoring it before as town (as a very pro-town thing) and still getting so excited about it now. 1) It would be harder to fake the excitement as scum when he has proven many times that he thinks it's genuinely pro-town 2) he just simply doesn't seem to do it as scum... at least so far. | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:12 Blazinghand wrote: Chromatically opens up just with questions. "Why do you think X", "What do you think of Y", etc. After making these, he comes out against ritoky with this argument: He laters adds Hopeless1der for awkwardness and when he calls out ritoky http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=25000070 he does it with some pretty reasonable-sounding arguments, but these arguments are actually flawed. He says scum won't sheep and will actually try to stick out, which in general is NOT how scum act. Yes, scum don't want to appear OBVIOUSLY Sheeping, but scum will generally try to appear "middle of the herd" rather than following the herd. Chromatically being wrong about this though doesn't make him scum, it just makes him wrong. His seeming misunderstadning of ritoky's (admittedly poorly laid out / formatted) argument about my usage of RNG is actually more suspicous. IF he actually clicked the links, he'd see me RNGing in each of those games. In fact, for trying to figure out when I RNG, ritoky is almost certainly town. If he's scum, he could just be like "BH using rng is stupid, we should lynch him for being stupid", or, if rayn was somehow town, he could say "RNG is great let's lynch rayn" This isn't what riotky did. He saw me using RNG, then said to himself, "hmm, I'm going to do research. How does Blazinghand's decision to do RNG tell me about his alignment? Let's see when he's used this in the past"-- to react to this by trying to use it as a tool to determine my alignment, this almost certainly makes ritoky town. Chromatically doesn't see this, which means he's not trying to get in ritoky's head, or maybe isn't capable of doing so? In any case, Chromatically mostly comes off as good-natured but wrong rather than baltantly scummy. If he's scum, he won't come out and spew incorrect theories about how to make scumreads, not when it would draw attention to him. Chromatically is not on my lynch list today Yeah, I like that ritoky part. It's certainly a townie reaction to dig your game history for RNG-related things to think about your alignment. | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't understand the reads on ritoky. He literally said: "BH is town until he does something egregious enough to be considered not town." "generally speaking he doesn't rng as mafia, but i wouldn't put it past him to break meta." So what? He townreads Blazinghand for something he then says, in the next post, is not a reason to townread Blazinghand`!!? Well it could be that it's not impossible for him to break meta, but not as likely as just following it? | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is absolutely nothing alignment indicative in your rng Blazinghand, you know it, everyone should know it. "Figuring out" something regarding it is a waste of time. Well it's kind of like... Imagine player X. He has a great record of posting a lengthy introduction post as scum when he starts the game, and as town he's so far just immediately jumped in and started posting actual content. Now in a current game he immediately makes a lengthy introduction post. Could he have done it as town to make himself harder to read? Possibly. But I'd still take into account that maybe the meta is repeating itself, no? And if you read my posts, it's not just that about Blazinghand, but more like how he was so excited about the RNG when he's several times before said that it's pro-town. It would be harder to convey that excitement as scum when he think it's so pro-town clearly. | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:32 Blazinghand wrote: Ok but part of what's going on here also is not everyone has seen firsthand what I'm capable of. Most people hear a story or two and think "oh, that BH guy must be pretty decent. He'll do anything to win. I guess I better count this well-known-to-BH meta evidence less strongly". Not everyone is like you, not everyone has seen the true darkness and depravity I am willing to perpetrate to win as scum. I've literally made peopel feel IRL feelings for me, feel bad, feel hurt, feel worried, want to reach out to me out-of-game, just to not get lynched for one day as scum. I've sunk to depths that are BEYOND most people's comprehensions. You know me, rayn. You know not to trust RNG as a town-tell. PEople hear that, though, and they think "okay, don't trust it AS MUCH as I normally would", because they don't KNOW. They ahven't gazed into the abyss. They are still sane. They can still be saved. You, though... you've seen what I'm capable of, and perhaps have forgotten what it is like to be normal, to not know me as you do Haha :D Well, I'm sure you'll start pushing RNG in your next scumgame after this... Unless you happened to already be scum here, which would kind of defeat the point. | ||
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On October 22 2015 13:35 yamato77 wrote: I wouldn't, because I have like 40 hours to decide. This is one of the issues I have with Xatalos/Vivax and their "read" on me. Do you really expect me to be super active when there's nothing really that interesting to talk about? It's fucking pointless conjecture. No answer to your question will mean a damn thing in 20 hours when I have more substantive stuff to talk about. Sure, it makes you question my alignment, but do I really care? No. When I want to, I'll be painfully obvious town and I'll almost certainly find a better lynch than most of you, and once you realize this, we'll be heading in a better direction. Thinking that you're "putting pressure" on me by forcing me to answer asinine questions is literally the least useful thing you could do at this juncture. If I fail to deliver, you can go ahead and try to get me lynched, but in the mean time, don't delude yourself into thinking I'm scum just because I won't play the game the way you want me to. It's rather silly. Oh yeah, I think this post seemed a bit town... Provided that he DOES start doing something since time has already passed | ||
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Like I think you tricked the scumteam to kill you in one game instead of me when I was the Cop? | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: ritoky is a really had to read for me and i don't think he has said much of anything that could be in my opinion considered townie. Maybe it's jsut like you say and other people do not know you as well as i do (and what you can / cannot do as mafia), but still... it's really hard for me to believe both of Xatalos and ritoky actually believe you are town for your actions regarding the rng lynch. I just don't fucking buy it. Really? Well, I guess we'll see as the game goes on. I'm relatively sure I got the right impression, and more so with some of BH's more recent posts. | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hopeless could you play properly and post more of your thoughts. Like i am pretty sure you are town but i am also pretty sure you're gonna get lynched because other people do not know why you are town and nothing i say can possibly change that. So why is he town? | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: You having the right impressions (assuming it is right) has nothing to do with your towniness. Having the right impression from something you should not have any on the other hand does affect my read on you. You mean I could have tried to pocket him by giving him an easy townread as scum? Well, I can't deny I haven't done stuff like that as scum. I guess we'll just have to see that's not the case here. | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: because yamato is town. Oh yeah, I'd also like to know how this read came to be btw | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:55 Hopeless1der wrote: Maybe you should let me deal with that...actually something you posted bothered me It reads like "lengthy introduction == scum" but BH is not scum because he's excited? What did I miss here? That X thing was a hypothetical scenario, only related to BH in the sense that meta shouldn't be entirely discarded even if good players are well capable of "breaking meta". | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: From the post you quoted and the post before that. ? :/ | ||
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On October 23 2015 05:59 Hopeless1der wrote: just so im clear, what is your current read of BH, Xata? town/null/scum? Town? Like I explained, and also he made some good posts in the recent pages. Better than his RNG stuff actually, in the sense of establishing his innocence. | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is what bothers me Xatalos. You continue to townread Blazinghand fro his rng after he says this. So? He didn't even seem to realize that RNG-stuff was a "towntell" for him until after we started discussing the topic. What's more, even if he did, it wouldn't be so easy to fake the whole push and argue about it with that kind of conviction if he thought it was counter-productive for his faction (as scum). And well, he has just generally been active and producing posts I like. I don't really feel there's any reason to think he's null, let alone scum. | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:14 Vivax wrote: on my way home and phoneposting. am i imagining this or dif gb stop posting when i did as well GB stopping posting when you do means...? | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do you understand this is not about Blazinghand but you? Blazinghand does an rng vote. You townread him for it because you think (1) he wouldn't do that as mafia and (2) he feels excited about it and reasons his rng. (1) He literally says he could do that as mafia. If he is town here he is telling the truth (because why lie), if he is mafia here, well he did that as mafia. Both of the arguments on his faction should cancel your townread by default. (2) Blazinghand's argument for why rng is pro-town is literally bullshit and anyone who reads his posts knows that. I don't think that's alignment indicative for him, because he would defend the rng lynch he so likes as either alignment. You however fail to realize his argument for rng lynch being pro-town is literally "rng lynch hits mafia only slightly less than non-rng lynch". In fact, hey.. that makes rng lynch NOT PRO TOWN. This should cancel your townread on him aswell. Now, why did it not? Uh... You kind of missed the point. You said that he "so likes as either alignment", which is false. He seems to love it as town, but not as scum, which is... not "as either alignment". I understand that it's not impossible for him to have faked all of that in the hopes of gathering town credibility. However, it's not that likely because 1) he apparently didn't realize he would be given credibility for doing it, and there hasn't been any proof yet that he in fact would have realized it beforehand - as far as I see, the whole issue was brought up only AFTER he did it in this game 2) even if that was his master plan all along, it's still not as likely since he would be A) undermining, at least in his clear belief, the chances of his team by doing that - without any likely good effect - and B) it's not as easy to push something like that when you don't believe in it yourself (which he wouldn't be as scum). | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think explaining my reads on them important at the moment, unless you want to call either of them or me mafia. To be frank, I don't think either of them have any big scummy things at the moment. It's just that the process of elimination is leading me to them so I'd like to know why you think they're clearly town. | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have a question. Xatalos do you seriously think Blazinghand - as town - believes that lynching by RNG on D1 has the best chances of hitting mafia? Like do you SERIOUSLY believe that? All I can say that he's genuinely pushed that thing in all of his recent town games... And said that he likes the idea in those games... It's not like I think it's the way to go myself, except for the fun factor I guess, but he really seems to like that as town. At least as a discussion starter / fall-back option What's more, it would really be terrible to do as scum. Think about it... If the RNG hit your teammate, you'd be in an extremely bad position. You'd have to pressure your teammate all D1, quite likely making him falter in some way, in the worst case revealing both of you at the same time. | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:30 Chromatically wrote: Here's a better question imo: do you really think that BH would have a problem arguing the benefits of RNG lynch as mafia? He wouldn't have any problem doing that at all, given that he's done the exact same thing many times before and RNG lynch is by definition completely independent of BH's alignment. Well, read my last post.... Also, like I said, even if it might sound good in theory, he hasn't done that so far in his scumgames and it wouldn't probably be as easy in practise ESPECIALLY if the RNG hit his teammate. | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do you feel like Blazinghand is pressuring me at the moment? Do you feel like i feel pressured? Do you thin kanyone whould feel pressured if the rng landed on them? Well, you did react a bit when you entered the thread. I think someone less experienced could well fall into panic as scum. In my first Mafia game there was a random vote pile on my teammate and he basically revealed himself by reacting weirdly. | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: okay who would you say in this game would feel pressured, as in who are these "new scum players" you would refer to here? gumshoe at least? What I've seen of his scumplay, it's extremely lacking. Not too sure about how good each player's scumgame is in this game. Well, it's a good point that if the scumteam was something like BH/rayn/marv, then it wouldn't be very risky at all. Still, even an experienced player might make some sort of weird reaction if he's never before been in a similar situation. | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote #vote ritoky not gonna change my vote. ritoky is scum. good night. what a bunch of crap he is writing. wot mate >.> | ||
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 BH | ||
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On October 23 2015 06:52 yamato77 wrote: I liked marv's pressure of GB. I had issue with what GB posted myself and it makes me feel better about him. GB, on the other hand, hasn't posted anything outside of what I believe he could post as mafia, so I'm still quite suspicious of him. Hm... I guess I agree. Though doesn't your last sentence make him null instead of suspicious? | ||
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Ok? :D | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:06 ritoky wrote: town: ritoky BH slam marv hopeless green side of null: xata vivax Slam and Hopeless are town why? | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:10 yamato77 wrote: RE: GB literally town Vivax to a tee mafia Viv is a little bitch LOL | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato i am pretty sure GlowingBear is town here. Basically he says really scummy shit that makes absolutely no sense as mafia, because he doesn't really know what to do at all (i assume). Here he has some sort of a thought process going on in his head. Basically it's highly unlike he is scum here. Same goes for Hopeless, he tried to do stuff. He is just doing it in his own way that looks scummy to basically everyone.. always. I am really really sure ritoky is mafia. I am also quite sure Slam is scum because of process of elimination. Xatalos is probably just really fucking dumb atm, but at least his explanation to BH thing makes some sense, unlike ritoky's. ritoky basically argues that Blazinghand is town based on illogical arguments, or arguments that are easily proven wrong. Like even if he believes those arguments are true the read is shit and arguing the read is good for those things is something that a townie never does. Last scum is probably Blazinghand or Onegu. I kinda think it's Onegu atm, since Blazinghand seems to be trying to do something and getting something out of his shennies at the start of the game. I don't believe gumshoe is scum, basically his reacation towards me doesn't make any sense as mafia. He is right in that i suually pressure him every game we are in and i know he acts differently when he is scum than when he is town. I just don't see him being scum here. Vivax is basically his own paranoid town self with a portion of good logical thoughts. marv is almost definitely town. you are almost definitely town. Chromatically seems to be the most level headed person in this game. It's like not totally out of question he is scum here but most likely he is just town as his posting suggests. Do Hopeless/GB just... not do anything at all as scum then? I get the feeling you're giving them a bit too much of a pass... Calling them very likely town. Same with ritoky, only conversely. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that he's surely scum based on the RNG percentage thing or something? Or could you explain which part didn't make any sense? I think you meant the part where he said that RNG lynching has better probabilities? Well, I don't disagree that Onegu or Slam could be scum this game. | ||
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Hm didn't you make this post before the whole issue you had with ritoky? What changed while you slept? | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:21 ritoky wrote: y'know, gonna be honest here. you're the most underwhelming player that people tell me is good on these forums. i just don't see it; maybe i am the one who is so bad i can't comprehend your greatness; but i don't think that's the case. Well it's quite possible he may just be scum this game. In fact I'm leaning in that direction right now. He can be great as town. | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:19 Vivax wrote: Everyone shut up I'm hardclaiming cop In an all vanilla setup | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:25 Vivax wrote: Anyway I'm gonna try to be the judge of this ritoky rayn stuff and get to the bottom of these two. Check out rayn's read progression on ritoky throughout the day... I have some difficulty grasping how ritoky became scum while rayn slept even though he was sure town before...? I think ritoky didn't even post during that? | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:27 ritoky wrote: it's an opinion gathered over many games; not just this one. ROFL | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:29 Xatalos wrote: Yeah... I think ritoky left the thread before rayn entered, and rayn called ritoky sure scum, and came back to the thread before ritoky... then ritoky was scum? Wot? EBWOP: first he was sure town, then scum, without anything changing in between | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah as i said that was yesterday. I clearly pointed out (before going to bed) that i dislike Xatalos' & ritoky's reads on BH which i had missed earlier as i was tired. My townread on ritoky before was not based on that at all. I jsut didn't pay attention to his posts because i didn't think he was saying anything interesting. It's like how i treat players who don't say anything interesting (unless something changes)... in every game. There is absolutely nothing contradicting there, i re-evaluated his posting after i had slept and dug up further and came to conclusion he is mafia, because: 1) His read on BH is bad. 2) His reasoning for his read doesn't even make any sense.for example; he says there is 80% chance BH does this rng thing as town, so there is actually then 20% chance of BH doing that as mafia - by default. When people tell his that "BH could totally do that as mafia" it doesn't affect his read at all. In fact he just pushes the townread further with more illogical arguments, like trying to argue random lynching is as effective as not random lynching, which is a straight out lie, and doesn't even have anything to do with BH's alignment. So yeah, there is that. That's basically the only thing he has done in this game in addition to now bitching at me. So if you ignored his posts initially, what made you townread him in the first place? | ||
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Really? I think it's a pretty general post. I think his stuff about BH was, on the other hand, relatively town... You mean they were scummy in hindsight for you? Meh. | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:49 Vivax wrote: Bothers me how first GB goes from "Vivax mafia cause tone" when most people agreed that it's my town tone, and then thinks of another reason to scumread me for and switches over to saying that he's suspicious of my townreads cause he doesn't know how they're formed. So um yeah, either my tone sucks but then my townreads don't have anything to do with it, and when confronted with other people's opinions (marv was hitting that with a pneumatic hammer) he abandons it and starts looking for another reason to bitch about my alignment, so he asks me some fancy questions "why do you townread these dudes" when it's a question he could ask anyone without having to scumread them first. Maybe you're onto something.... Well, it does kind of feel like a premeditated push. | ||
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Well, I guess you did answer some of it indirectly in your other posts anyway. I was still left hanging especially with how you gave GB/Hopeless such easy town passes (for almost nothing) and why ritoky became scum for... basically disagreeing with you about some RNG statistics? | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah as i said that was yesterday. I clearly pointed out (before going to bed) that i dislike Xatalos' & ritoky's reads on BH which i had missed earlier as i was tired. My townread on ritoky before was not based on that at all. I jsut didn't pay attention to his posts because i didn't think he was saying anything interesting. It's like how i treat players who don't say anything interesting (unless something changes)... in every game. There is absolutely nothing contradicting there, i re-evaluated his posting after i had slept and dug up further and came to conclusion he is mafia, because: 1) His read on BH is bad. 2) His reasoning for his read doesn't even make any sense.for example; he says there is 80% chance BH does this rng thing as town, so there is actually then 20% chance of BH doing that as mafia - by default. When people tell his that "BH could totally do that as mafia" it doesn't affect his read at all. In fact he just pushes the townread further with more illogical arguments, like trying to argue random lynching is as effective as not random lynching, which is a straight out lie, and doesn't even have anything to do with BH's alignment. So yeah, there is that. That's basically the only thing he has done in this game in addition to now bitching at me. Well I guess there could be something with that point 2...... It's a little bit weird how he was so confident on BH being town despite saying that there's a large chance of him "breaking meta"... But I don't really see how he should have been affected by people saying that he could do it as scum, considering he originally said it himself too. Meh. I don't really see it as any big point against him. Could you walk me through how Hopeless is clearly town? I think marv said it too? So there might be some merit in it. | ||
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This game... Mostly I was enlightened by him liking ritoky for his "town BH makes reads based on his RNG push DING DING" post (which really makes me feel better about ritoky too, since I forgot that post and wondered a bit about his confidence in BH being town... Now I understand). Also I liked how he brought up the weird progression from rayn regarding GB... Which basically went like certain town -> die scum, based on.. What? Missing posts from GB earlier? Then why that hard defense of him in the first place, without even reading his posts? And now the confident scumread because that's where the thread was flowing? What I'm trying to say is, reading Slam's posts made me feel better about Slam and ritoky, and worse about rayn. Not really sure how you came to your conclusions marv...? On the other hand, GB has felt a bit better lately. The Vivax read is a bit... But like marv said, it feels like a really weird target to pick as scum. And I liked his meta thing about me. And he's unlikely scum with rayn (no reason for scum rayn to suddenly go on the offensive this late in the day otherwise after hard defending him before). | ||
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On October 23 2015 21:50 marvellosity wrote: i came to my conclusions by being awesome and not-xatalos Lolz So? | ||
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[QUOTE]On October 23 2015 19:11 marvellosity wrote: It feels to me like he decided to scumread rayn and then is kinda just picking out posts to make it happen.[/QUOTE] If you say this, then I also posted a pretty similar post spree before him? How did you miss that and only notice Slam? Why didn't you even comment on the whole debate itself, but jumped straight to saying that just Slam is scum? | ||
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Town Vivax Blazinghand ritoky Alakaslam Nullish GlowingBear gumshoe Hopeless1der Onegu yamato77 marvellosity Scummy Chromatically raynpelikoneet That's where I'm at... I think there's at least 1-2 scum between rayn/Chrom and then 1-2 in the null section. | ||
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[QUOTE]On October 23 2015 22:29 Xatalos wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 19:17 marvellosity wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 19:11 marvellosity wrote: It feels to me like he decided to scumread rayn and then is kinda just picking out posts to make it happen.[/QUOTE] If you say this, then I also posted a pretty similar post spree before him? How did you miss that and only notice Slam? Why didn't you even comment on the whole debate itself, but jumped straight to saying that just Slam is scum?[/QUOTE] you're not Slam? are you on drugs?[/QUOTE] Eh... I mean, you just said "huh someone else attacked rayn before?" implying you didn't read my posts, and then you scumread Slam for attacking rayn in a very similar fashion... Why put someone as your biggest scumread before even reading the context of his posts? | ||
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On October 23 2015 22:36 marvellosity wrote: your reads are fucking shit-tier because yamato is obviously town and so am i.  | ||
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[QUOTE]On October 23 2015 22:38 Xatalos wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 22:35 marvellosity wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 22:29 Xatalos wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 19:17 marvellosity wrote: [QUOTE]On October 23 2015 19:11 marvellosity wrote: It feels to me like he decided to scumread rayn and then is kinda just picking out posts to make it happen.[/QUOTE] If you say this, then I also posted a pretty similar post spree before him? How did you miss that and only notice Slam? Why didn't you even comment on the whole debate itself, but jumped straight to saying that just Slam is scum?[/QUOTE] you're not Slam? are you on drugs?[/QUOTE] Eh... I mean, you just said "huh someone else attacked rayn before?" implying you didn't read my posts, and then you scumread Slam for attacking rayn in a very similar fashion... Why put someone as your biggest scumread before even reading the context of his posts?[/QUOTE] Slam made the post I quoted on rayn long before you did. thread context. try it.[/QUOTE] I didn't mean his reaction to being voted, I meant how you said he maliciously attacked rayn.... which happened after my posts... and then you said "someone attacked rayn before?". | ||
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Btw does this imply that you think rayn&Chrom are potential scum anyways? Then why was it so bad for Slam to attack rayn? | ||
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On October 23 2015 22:42 marvellosity wrote: i don't understand why you keep assuming you and slam are the same and should be treated the same it's just nonsense Well generally I assume people should be treated the same if they do the same actions in the same context. This referring to our reactions to rayn's read shifts, which you bashed Slam for and totally ignored what I said (which was pretty much the same as Slam). | ||
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On October 23 2015 22:44 marvellosity wrote: no i think rayn is town and i already explained why. Hmmmm...... I see you said something like "shame rayn is probably town" but that's not much of an explanation... What's with all these incomprehensible reads going on.... | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:01 marvellosity wrote: xatalos is pretty obviously town i think because if he was mafia he'd just townread me. Haha... Ah, I guess you're referring to our PM discussion after my miserable semi-push against you as scum... | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:10 Chromatically wrote: So I assume no one agrees with me on Xatalos then? Here are the basic points I made: Xatalos was active without posting anything particularly in the beginning of the game (mafia do this because they want to appear active but have trouble posting content), waffling on votes (mafia do this because they want to keep their options open and not ignore their partners), throwing suspicion on rayn initially (mafia do this to make people look worse than they are), weird read on BH (mafia throw out townreads without thinking about why). The last two points are meh, but the first two I think are pretty clearly scum traits and certainly not "null at worst" from any perspective. The filter length defense is the only good one I've heard, but filter length is not everything. If people really don't want to lynch Xatalos, I'll obviously consolidate onto someone else. But I do think I made a strong case and I feel good about it. I mean... Posting a lot (including filler) is my town meta. As scum, I select more carefully what I post. Waffling is something I will do as scum, but also as town, so it's not really.... a point. I think my read on BH is decent, do you disagree with it? Even rayn finally admitted it wasn't meritless (at least "from my perspective" lol). Not sure why scumhunting is scummy again. It's not like I showed suspicion towards rayn baselessly. | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:08 marvellosity wrote: my reasoning was that you're a bit of a pussy as mafia and it would be much easier for you just to townread me when if you are mafia you know there is a 0% chance of me ever getting lynched. the fact you pushed me before under similar circumstances weakens that as a heuristic though although i doubt you'd make the same mistake twice Btw can you really say I'm a pussy as scum after that game where I and Artanis bussed each other all game? That was fun. | ||
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What the heck are all those votes on Vivax? He's definitely not the lynch today. In my experience, his scumgame is entirely different from this. Very lurky and overall uninvolved. I don't really think GB is the best lynch either.. I'd much rather lynch rayn first, since GB is unlikely scum with rayn IMO. Yeah, I'm still leaning towards rayn. Chromatically, where would you "consolidate" if not for me? | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:24 marvellosity wrote: yes, bussing each other is pussy way out because it means you don't have the balls to tunnel a townie gonna have to try meta Chrome at some point. My evening cleared up (i was gonna be afk all weekend and spring that on you guys when i finished work, but my plans fell through) I don't like any of these posts much. I don't think the anger thing is a good reason to townread yamato. I made an unexplained punt vote on GB and it reads as a bit of a weird defence. I'm also not sure that Chrome should be getting strong townfeels from the post i made rather than others/the whole body of play. Also have this nagging feeling where Chrome described ritoky as picking up on "textbook mafia tells" and he's essentially doing the exact same thing with Xatalos. I don't like it. I understand picking up on Xata's read progression on rayn, I think it's possibly reasonable to be suspicious of that, but the rest of it I don't think I like much. Well yeah I guess it's a bit odd... He basically suspected ritoky for making a reasonably similar case as his own latest case.... I mean the way of taking general scum traits (keeping options open etc.) then just finding some post where it could be applied and base the case on that. | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:31 marvellosity wrote: 1. marvellosity 2. Vivax 8. Xatalos 13. yamato77 3. Blazinghand 4. gumshoe 6. Hopeless1der 7. raynpelikoneet 9. Onegu 12. ritoky 5. GlowingBear 10. Chromatically 11. Alakaslam groups are in no particular order (e.g. rayn would be higher) Well, it warms my heart that I'm so high. Nice to be a pussy I guess? ![[image loading]](http://www.eastcottvets.co.uk/uploads/Animals/gingerkitten.jpg) Anyways, you'd really have to do better than to claim Slam's reaction to a vote / his attack on rayn was weird. I basically got the opposite picture from how he went about it. Can't really disagree about the option of Chromatically. GB... Doesn't really seem like the best lynch today. He's kind of null to me, but rayn's odd behavior towards him (hard defense -> hard attack) doesn't really seem like how he would treat a teammate. More like how scum rayn would treat someone he knew was town. So that basically pushes him out of my comfortable lynch range atm. Is there really nothing else for you to defend rayn with than his initial agreement (not really) with your early reads? Even if his reads were actually quite different back then, unlike you said, and a HUGE AMOUNT of stuff has happened after that? | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Chromatically's oplay is completely different from his scumgames where he basically picks a person and tunnels that into oblivion. Isn't that pretty much what he's been doing towards me D1? Well, he did initially pick ritoky, I guess, but since that didn't go anywhere it became me. Anyways didn't you learn from your mistakes? Last time as well, in the VS game, I started suspecting you and you turned on a switch where I was 100% scum. That was... really bad. As it is now. Pretty much exactly the same as what you're doing now, and it's still equally scummy. | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Let's lynch Slam. ##unvote ##vote Alakaslam I wanna tunnel Xatalos so hard after D1. So hard. I am literally seeing red and i really really wanna do this. And i can't unless i lynch mafia. WTF is this post btw? Where did the Slam scumread come from? And why is it pre-set that I should be the next lynch regardless of what Slam flips? And why am I even scum again, for suspecting you for the same reasons I suspected you last time you were scum? Wot? Nothing makes sense. | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: bcz i am scum obviously. did you forget? Yeah..... It's getting harder to see any other reason.... | ||
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Because I have difficulties seeing why town marv would defend rayn based on something that never actually happened, in the first moments of the game, and ignoring everything rayn said afterwards.... Even though rayn already has like 7 pages of filter. | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:14 marvellosity wrote: i'm not ignoring everything he says afterwards. i liked some of his longer posts. you're coming at this in a really, really shallow way. like I can answer your question about rayn's play. rayn thinks GB could be mafia, but he has nagging meta/tonal reasons that he might be town rayn thinks you are mafia because of your shit read on him, but he knows he cannot push a lynch through on you at all with me opposing it today rayn recognises that me and him both agree on Slam, this is a good shot of being mafia and if he hits mafia he gets more cred to go after you. Do you honestly think he believes I'm scum based on that? I made an extremely similar push last time I was town and he was scum, and he similarly immediately scumread me for the push. It's actually unbelievable how similar his gut reaction is. And it's very odd how his PoE possibility of Slam being scum suddenly became the best lynch. Even though he's pushed GB for the recent times. And how is PoE even a valid reason for his lynch choice when he has several actual scumreads and overall his reads are nothing consistent? His reads have changed in so many directions that how is Slam still in a similar PoE position? I think he just saw an easy way out of getting lynched today and went for the easy route of sheeping you, even though there's still like 5-6 hours time left. | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: your push is shityy shit shit, and if you are town you can't read me (which doesn't surprise me at all based on your last game's case). So how am I 100% scum because of this push if it wouldn't surprise you that I made this push as town? | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:33 marvellosity wrote: it's not heading towards anything vs rayn. It is if I have anything to say about it. | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:36 GlowingBear wrote: I'm not commiting suicide, I'm getting angry that such shitty scum read on me based on a read that I find very reasonable and I'm having a hard time believing good players can't possibly see I'm town. Maybe it means the player in question isn't town then? Or you should reconsider / fortify the read in question? In any case no reason to beg for votes.. | ||
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I asked for that | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos can we lynch you on D2 if i flip town? Not really, since you're not 100% scum. But I think we should lynch the highest probability scum, that being you. Self-vote if you wish. | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:40 marvellosity wrote: yes that's why i need yamato i have no thread control and it's infuriating You have to take the leadership with merit in this game, not just assume it because of past merits. | ||
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Okay? | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:51 marvellosity wrote: okay, you are welcome to think this but when i end up being right about rayn, i reserve the right to never listen to your opinions in any game ever again. Well, even if that happened, your reasoning would still suck (especially the part about you having the same reads at the start when you actually argued about your different reads on ritoky and the gumshoe read too... and it's not like it would have been hard for scum rayn to give decent initial townreads either). | ||
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Well that's basically how I saw his post to begin with? | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:56 GlowingBear wrote: You fail to realise that I asked your opinion exactly because my townread were saying my scum read is town. But then, when you come to the thread, you scum read me. What am I supposed to do, listen to you and vote me???? Like, seriously, you and Marv could simply answer my question. But instead you decided I'm scum. I AM considering what other people say. Unfortunately, they are saying I'm scum, and that's wrong. I really don't know what I'm supposed to do. Well I think this post is more likely from town.... Hm. It's not so easy to fake this confusion/paranoia as town IMO. | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:58 marvellosity wrote: it's irrelevant what my reasoning is when the result is always correct it's not for nothing rayn made a post a couple pages ago "there is only one person on the planet who can read me" he means me. go away. Well if the reasoning sucks, then it's just luck / TMI / lying... Nothing to brag about. In any case, I'm fairly sure I'm right, so I guess we'll see how things go. | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:04 Hopeless1der wrote: Surefire ways to get lynched: 1) Tell marv he cant do it. lolz | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:03 marvellosity wrote: yes it's just lucky that i'm the best person at reading rayn that ever lived *rolls eyes* Well every gambler has winning streaks | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:07 gumshoe wrote: This should probally tell you that Gb is totes town. The lynch momentum is falling off him, and what does he do? "Hey that guy whose supposed to die instead of me? Maybs lets him live." Even if there scum buddies it makes no sense. I guess that makes sense... Your argument I mean. I'd happily jump on Slam if I was scum GB. | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: For the record, why Xatalos' read on me is shit and why i think he is scum is this: This is a complete mischaracterisation of my play. I never ever do this. I never do this as town, i never do this as mafia. I have never changed my read on anyone without a reason or a "reason" (as mafia). I always have a reason for why i post the things i do. I have clearly explained every single read change i have had in this game (which is basically GlowingBear, Xatalos himself and ritoky). I went onto a long conversation about ritoky earlier, and at that time apparently there was nothing wrong with it for him. But now again it is a reason for scumreading me? I have also explained why i changed my read on GlowingBear, at that time there was nothing wrong with it for him? It should be really easy to see why i think Xatalos is mafia - or at least a bit earlier - why i reconsidered my read on him. Slam's points on me are literally shit, and as marv pointed out Slam just decided he calls me mafia nad then started quoting my posts and called them scummy. All of his points are unture, what he says i have for example done in the last couple of games -- i have literally did the same thing (which makes me scumread GB too, as he should know Slam's points are shit, yet he doesn't address them -- as i just acted towards GB the same way in the last two games). Somehow Xatalos thinks those points are good? Bullshit. Bull-fucking-shit. Another thing is he is trying to paint my read on him as OMGUS when there is nothing even close to that. I have actually reasons to think he is scum. He isn't trying to figure out my alignment, and to be honest this is kinda funny because all he says is "he did the exact same thing last time he was mafia and i caught him", funnily enough this is the EXACT case i myself made on rsoultin in that game. He is also not not even re-considering his read in any way when marv, who is the only person who can ever read me correctly all the time, heavily disagrees with his read. Instead he decides that we must BOTH be mafia. I find it almost impossible to believe that's what he actually thinks.There is basically no way Xatalos thinks i am most likely to flip mafia here. I could understand he thinks i am mafia, but not like this, and not for the reasons he pulls out of his ass. He is basically not a person who "yolo's" a scumread like this without digging further into it. If he did, he would see that: 1) my reads are not actually unexplained, nor are the changes on them, it's really easy to see why i do the stuff i do 2) me acting like "i did as mafia" is a pure mischaracterisation of my play. The read is wrong and lazy as fuck, and misses all the reasoning for me to do things i do (which btw is there if you read closely). Well, it is OMGUS. It literally went like "Xatalos is prolly just town" -> "oh wait, he scumreads me?" -> "100% scum" in like... a couple of minutes. Your reads ARE very weird and especially their progression. You've pretty much went against anyone currently "under fire" regardless of your previous stances on them. Whenever thread sentiment turns against someone, you conveniently find some scummy post that you forgot about him earlier and vote for him. The same thing repeated with ritoky, GB and me... Town -> scum because of thread sentiment / OMGUS, not because anything actually changed in reality. | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Again, this is just not true. I decided to look further on GB because of what yamato, marv and Vivax said. I actually dug myself further into ritoky. I have thought Slam is mafia all game. Somehow you are incapable of seeing why i did these things, when it should be very clear from my filter. And that is why i think you are scum. You are just painting it as "unexplained read changes" when it's definitely not. Well, you just said it like it is... Hard defense -> heavy scumread based on thread sentiment, while finding some sort of justification (a single bad post or something) in their filter. It's just too drastic and the timings are too convenient. Slam has been a PoE read, conveniently always staying in the Poe regardless of all the shifts, and now it's OMGUS. | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Incorrect, Slam has not been a PoE read after his catch up. I just said it shifted to an OMGUS read after he started scumreading you. | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: So in your opinion is that i cannot call shit reads shit? And think people who should not make shit reads are not mafia? I guess i start calling every single player mafia in the game when i roll scum and when they attack me back i yell OMGUS. Best strat ever. Well that's what you did last game as scum (minus the "every", replaced with "a lot of") | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:28 Hopeless1der wrote: What do you mean "conveniently". Slam did nothing for a good stretch of time, then spam posted the thread. 80% of which was "hey check out why rayn in scum". I mean it seemed like Slam was always like a fall-back option for him, kept there at the end of the list to vote for if given the chance. When you put it that way, I guess that point's not really too big. | ||
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I haven't been lynched as town since my few very first games. You can try it if you want, rayn/marv, but I don't think even you would succeed. | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:45 Alakaslam wrote: I want the town to remember the 40's of this game. So obvious that Rayn and Marv are working together in a dubious fashion and in the 50's, they disappear after I start talking about their lack of logical answering to xata's perfectly good questions. They ar using seniority to push bad reasoning, which is a senior scum tactic. There is no reason to use their seniority this way other than to push mislynches. I no longer give two shits Marv's read on chroma. Yeah I thought about that a bit well... It was slightly uncomfortable when I showed that marv's argument for rayn to be town was simply BS and he fell back on "I have more experience, you have no right to question me" instead of reconsidering his read or anything. | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:47 Vivax wrote: I'm the Xata whisperer usually, unless you improved I am able to see if you're robotown or actual town Robotown? | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:49 Vivax wrote: Oh Slam with the seniority argument. I remember how I used that in my first games, trying to incite a revolution of the masses to overhtrow the vet government. Then I got hanged, torn and quartered. :D:D:D | ||
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![[image loading]](http://static.tumblr.com/pgafmci/XNclzroma/poster_cheguevara_big.jpg) | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:51 Vivax wrote: I meant drawn and quartered, something didn't feel right. Xata I mean that I can feel when you're fake posting and actually posting. And the conclusion is? | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:52 gumshoe wrote: Slam feels... different, I typically see him as a derpy jokey player, but hes pretty intense this game. Breaking meta for sure, not certain what it means though. Rayn seems pretty amped up, I feel like he started the game angry and just gets angrier as the game goes on, but the rage hasnt been too focused. Rayn is perfectly capable of tunneling one person forever and coming up with all manner of bullshit on them, but he really has been all over the place, which would suggest he is actually trying to figure stuff out in his own way. Or hes just flailing, trying to get whatever lynch to go down. As for slam, def some wierd stuff cropping up here and there. in context with mah yamato case, this is a bit sketch, if Slam pushed to get gb lynched based off association with yam, and gb was town, his flip would in no way impact yamato. It's a small thing / : for sure. Mostly I dont want rayn to be scum, because then Bh will be right and well never hear the end of it. But I'm not sure slam is scum either. I dont like this lynch choice at all T_T Haha.... Be ready for BH's mention of this game next time around... I wonder where BH went to though. | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:53 Vivax wrote: I still see little reason to revoke my townread or to read cases on you, but that might change if I decide to go over your filter for some reason. You felt pretty solid to me early in the game, I'm still sticking to that. Alright... And what's your stance on the whole debacle between me/rayn/Slam? | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:55 gumshoe wrote: Can we just collectively agree to pussy out as town and vote for the most objectively useless player? Onegu, 2015 Well it's better than Slam for sure. Or even GB. Still not as good as rayn. I really want to bag the credit for getting him lynched as scum 2 times in a row (I could consolidate on Chromatically too tbh, as for marv I think it's too early to hang him now) | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyways i am gonna go play Heroes. Mafia is Slam/GB/Xatalos most likely. you can thank me later for solving the game. Good luck in the games, I think I'll just stay here ranting | ||
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On October 24 2015 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: What GB does makes also sense if he is.... DADAAAA scum with Slam. Maybe.... But I really, really doubt Slam is scum. | ||
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Tbh I kind of liked some of his latest posts. Like the post where he said he didn't want to lynch Slam today, and the post where he vented about marv/rayn calling him scum with an arrogant attitude. I could relate to that feeling, you know. | ||
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What I mean his frustration/confusion felt genuine when he talked about the situation. In any case, who I'd be willing to lynch today are pretty much: rayn Chromatically Onegu | ||
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On October 24 2015 02:07 Vivax wrote: Xata I'm surprised you agreed on my points on GB and abandon them for an emotional response he provoked in you. I was expecting you to see where everyone's coming from on him. It's not like he's the worst lynch ever. And his read on you is bad. It still makes me hesitant when all of my main suspects want to lynch him, and his responses to all this pressure seemed genuine/town-motivated. | ||
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On October 24 2015 03:07 GlowingBear wrote: Sorry, why is he okay? BTW I'm pretty sure Vivax is mafia now. He comes back, jokes about stuff, says some random stuff about killing me, but actually talks about nothing else in the game. His read on yamato has vanished, too. I can't understand what you guys find townie in him. Well I think his read post was decent enough. It looked like he had actually read the thread somewhat. Mostly it's that from what I've seen of his scumgame, it's extremely uninvolved / lurky. Here he's invested in the discussion at various points and actually seems to care about what's going on. | ||
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On October 24 2015 03:31 Blazinghand wrote: So I See you going to the mat for slam here. How does Slam convince you rayn is scum? I'm glad to see someone on board with the "GB being stubborn could be a town-tell" boat, but how does this have to do with an associative tell with rayn? Rayn is totally willing to attack teammates when appropriate as scum, and in a game with no investigative roles I'd be a lot more confident about rayn lasting through lylo as scum than I would GB. Can you explain in a bit more detail why rayn as scum wouldn't change his mind on GB as scum, if GB's push starts to falter? This post is bad and you should feel bad. Why do you have marv as scum? As I noted earlier, Marv is like supremely demotivated as scum now (to the point of almost throwing games, never trying, conceding with 3 or 2 scum alive, etc). It's super obvious to me that marv is town, since he's actually trying to play the game rather than be a little whiny baby about it. Just look at his game history. It wasn't a decisive part really, but Slam brought up the whole issue of rayn's read on GB and how it shifted based on thread sentiment rather than anything changing about GB. He was first oddly certain about GB being town, then suddenly oddly certain about him being scum (and this happened because of pressure gathering on GB, not because he said new stuff). I don't really see why rayn should have dropped the GB read as scum since GB is still a lynch candidate. Do you townread Chromatically and why? I didn't have marv as scum back when I made that post. Currently I'm leaning towards the possibility. Mostly because of his odd hard defense of rayn that was based on something that didn't even happen. It makes the most sense in the event of a rayn/marv team, but we'll see if that's the case. | ||
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On October 24 2015 03:46 Chromatically wrote: Are you trying to say that Xatalos' read on rayn is based on him following RNG? Haha :D:D:D:D | ||
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 On October 24 2015 03:44 Vivax wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Chromatically He failed the entry test of participating on a wavelength with others (which is why he didn't make it into my initial town list) He's good at nonstop producing reads with some arguments attached to them but doesn't really interact with the thread much until he gets scummed. The ritoky picture argument he called a slam dunk argument (Not sure if bad or mafia for this one, but both is also possible. So it's 66 % vs 33%, science never fails). Feels mechanical (stick up his arse). And obviously, this is part me, part marv propaganda. Hmm... Well, I'm extremely fine with the lynch being rayn vs Chromatically.  | ||
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http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1983&page=45 | ||
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"Post: #2216RE: WTHITAHAIH?!?!?!?!? Mafia Like Xatalos doesn't have any reason to think i am mafia other than "sheeping cory". Xatalos when did you become adumb sheeple in your opinion? You sheeped me on D1, you sheeped cory on D1. You sheeped cory on N1, now you don't have cory to sheep so you are making bad cases, you are not being consistent at all. You call me tunneling and attacking "easy targets". You FUCKING voted for Tiger who was the "easiest target" ever on D1, you had SIU as a scumread all game long, another "easy target". Your vote ended up on rsoultin who you yourself called "an easy target". At least i had fucking balls to think scummy play is scum. Hypocrite scum." | ||
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On October 24 2015 03:57 Chromatically wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Alakaslam I think I've been clearly posting my thoughts in the thread and that you should be able to see my thought process behind how my reads have formed or changed. I'm okay with Slam being lynched. I think BH or Xatalos would probably be better but I'm doubting myself on Xatalos now too so I don't really know. I'm probably overreacting to marv because no one else seems to think it's weird. Hm you mean the way how he "cherrypicked" on your meta? Well... Dunno really, as I don't know your meta. And it's overall hard to comment since I don't exactly trust either of you. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:00 Vivax wrote: I did skim that game trying to catch a glimpse of something sexual Did you? | ||
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Which is not the way to go. Now get on rayn/Chromatically instead and it should be a decent lynch. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:04 marvellosity wrote: all the best townplayers on Slam Slam isn't the way to go pro xata logic as always It remains questionable if the majority of people voting for Slam are even town. In any case, Hopeless and yamato are hardly "top players". | ||
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Well, tbh it might be better to focus on this game now. I think your vote on Chromatically is fine enough. I may drop my own vote on him if need be. It's just that I'm not totally confident about him and rayn seems like the clearer choice. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:06 marvellosity wrote: yamato is a good townplayer when he actually plays, which is all too rare. me/rayn/yamato pretty good It feels extremely questionable to sheep you three when yamato is hardly playing at all, rayn is 100% scumreading me for BS reasons and you're defending rayn for almost as bad of reasons. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:07 GlowingBear wrote: I don't want to lynch chromatically. Especially now that Vivax is voting him. And I've been putting thoughts on Rayn. His flip one is bad. He said it was very unlikely I was scum and that I was very level headed with my read in Vivax. Then Vivax said something about me scum reading him before asking questions, and Rayn agreed and called me scum over the same posts he called me "very unlikely to be mafia". It doesn't make sense. I'm voting rayn | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:07 Onegu wrote: I have started to read rayn completely on how he reacts with me. If he is more buddy to me its likely he is scum. If he is bitching about my play he is town. Oh he enjoys playing with me but wants to win more as town so he wants me to do more. And? | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:11 marvellosity wrote: this is why you are not a competent townplayer Because I don't take BS arguments and sheepvotes seriously? | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:26 ritoky wrote: alright. here and ready to sheep. who am i sheeping? Sheep me, vote rayn. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:27 Blazinghand wrote: eh, I guess I see what you're getting at here but compared to the significantly worse issues on hand (low contribution players) is GB the ideal lynch today? If this is really the case, the truth will out in the next day anyways What's the case on Slam? Any detail on this would be good, I generally have difficulty wrapping my head around Slam. Thanks for this info, but next time, a link would be so much nicer! Marv is NOT SCUM. MARV IS NOT SCUm MARV IS NOT SCUM Look, last game (student XV) Marv was scum and he was so disappointed to roll sucm again he like, conceded during NIGHT 1. MARV IS PLAYING THE GAME, THEREFORE HE IS NOT SCUM. IF Marv was scum, he would basicallyc ontinue to be a super whiny baby and not play. Marv was SUCH A WHINY BABY. UGH. He basically ruined a whole newbie game (a newbie game!) because of what a whiny baby he was about rolling scum. Do you really think he somehow shaped up and stopped being a whiny baby? No, Marv is gonna be a whiny baby until he plays a game or two as town or takes a break. This is true. I think the high amount of veteran players in this game might help in that regard, but I can understand your point.... | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:32 Onegu wrote: No not really but def dont think he is the lynch today. I wouldnt lynch him today for sure I am that comfortable. Really... because I can't see your meta argument really holding up this game... But in any case. If not rayn, which players would you want to lynch? | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:27 marvellosity wrote: anyone not-xatalos I'm more town than yourself? I'm glad. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:32 marvellosity wrote: BH - re: Slam there was the post I quoted of his earlier, the post where he originally has a go at rayn about his vote on him. The post where he says he'll never get lynched before lylo and rayn is suspicious for going after LHF. Well the thing is, Slam as town has always somewhat reconciled himself to being lynched. In fact, he's often asked to be lynched so he doesn't burden his team later on. This meta may well have changed, he's become more self-confident or whatever. But I think the switch to "you are voting me therefore you are suspicious, and i am unlynchable" is too much. After this post he kinda periodically quotes rayn and calls his posts suspicious, based on not very much. Then when I also become suspicious of Slam, he doesn't really think why I might be suspicious of him, he just lumps me as mafia along with rayn. It's the true definition of omgus because he doesn't actually have any other reason to be suspicious of me other than the fact I am voting for him. He makes posts like "the way marv and rayn are arrogant this game is telling" without explaining how it's telling. I'm seeing no passion, no fire, no sparks of... anything in his play. Is it a slam dunk case? No, it isn't. But i have reasons to townread a lot of other people so my pool is kinda smallish. Can't see why he should be town. hmmm The truth is, I liked his posts about you/rayn/marv quite a bit when I read them. If you say no passion, then there's already a ton more of effort so far than all along in his last scumgame. Can't say I can read him well though. It's just that he's pretty much said all the same things I've thought. Hard to see him being scum after all that. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:38 marvellosity wrote: yes but you scumside so that should make you tihnk he is mafia ritoky: i know, but lots of fun things are bad for your health Hm? | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:39 marvellosity wrote: if xata wasn't so terrible the wagons could be chrome-slam instead of rayn-slam and then our chances of hitting mafia would increase exponentially rayn/Chromatically would be good. I just think Slam is a 50/50 in the best case, and in truth he's quite a bit more likely town after he's mirrored my thoughts all game. If you think Slam's posts are scummy, then mine should be as well. | ||
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What's the difference? He's mostly used the same arguments and even the same posting style for accusing rayn. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:44 marvellosity wrote: why are you asking about stuff that's already explained Link? | ||
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Don't forget to vote, only 1h left. And I kind of think this group is town atm. Why did you even unvote in the first place, BH? If you all vote for rayn, we can do this | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:03 Blazinghand wrote: Ok, finished up with the day post in Newbie mafia, so this game has my full attention for the next hour. I'm almost caught up, just pushing through the 50s now. right now I've got my eyes set on Chrom and Gumshoe, though I'll be paying attention to the Slam case as I catch up. Let me know if you have any requests for reads now, since we're getting close to deadline and I don't have much time Whatever happened with rayn? You were still talking about the RNG on him a while ago and him being otherwise scummy, but now he's not an option anymore? | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:16 Blazinghand wrote: In general, Slam's buddying of me makes me pretty nervous cause at this point in time there's no particular reason to townread me yeah i feel no reason to pay attention to you atm if that's your theory. marv obv town Slam's theory on his lynch time as well as his "critique" of your post are both way off. It's possible at the time (and at this point, as far as people knew, I was gonna be on Rayn like a dog on an ass-flavored biscuit) he thought he could roll into the wagon I was driving and hide. Although I think it's more telling that ritoky had been in cell than any of this other stuff, rayn's reaosning seems solid and slam's meta case seems wrong. So I'm gonna say "slam is one hundo percent wrong on rayn, and kinda obviously wrong, and also lying about his own meta". I like where this case is going. I'm dropping down a vote on slam tentatively until I'm caught up. ##vote: Alakaslam I already said that I can tentatively buy your meta case, though. How should I know that marv has been not playing as scum in his last games? I haven't seen those games. I don't see how me not being all-knowing of recent games makes me not worth listening to at all. If that's your decision, then I guess it's hard to overturn the lynch at this point... But it's still one of the worse lynches available, so it's kind of sad. The scumteam would have to be something stupid like Slam/gumshoe/GB or Slam/gumshoe/ritoky or Slam/GB/ritoky for it to make real sense. None of those teams are likely at all, and every potential scum candidate voted for Slam quickly when the opportunity came. | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:19 marvellosity wrote: best two reasons to lynch slam: 1. he said he couldn't be lynched d1 2. piss xata off lol | ||
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marv, how is competence decided by the games which you have played? That's the same as calling you incompetent because you didn't play in the VS games. | ||
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Not really, why? | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:31 ritoky wrote: if you're thinking unflipped associations; i would assume you have considered: BH pushes his RNG lynch really hard when he is town doing it -> he RNG'd rayn -> rayn is in legitimate threat of being lynched -> BH stops pushing for rayn, says sad about TR him -> pushes on slam. i would feel like you would be sketched out a bit by BH's progression if you think rayn is so firmly mafia. certainly way more than marv's progression. Hm... I guess that's not impossible. I think it was a bit odd how BH unvoted rayn just when rayn became the leading wagon. There are still reasons to townread BH though. | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:32 marvellosity wrote: rayn never had more than 3 votes at least one of which was BH's RNG He was still set to be lynched. Just before the Slam wagon started in full force. | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:36 marvellosity wrote: like there aren't to townread me? lmao i love your "i don't know what marv did in previous games" when BH explained to you what i did, and told you the game, and you could have gone and looked but no, you went to your VS game and posted a load of shit noone gave a fuck about it top play xata top fucking play What now? I did tentatively agree with BH's meta case, since it seems like a quite plausible reason to give you a townread. | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:39 marvellosity wrote: he talked about it in his first spate of posting at the start of d1. Yes, but I forgot that post as we got into the argument between me/rayn/Slam. Or before that really, while I was doing exams and thinking about other stuff. I never wanted to lynch you anyway. It just disturbed me how you defended rayn for non-existent/vague reasons, ran out of arguments and told me to just sheep you quietly, and had many of your reads opposite of me. | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: and why exactly is this not a scumtell anymore`? I'm willing to let it slide for the time being if his current scum meta is to not play and concede as soon as possible. | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:42 Blazinghand wrote: If he's town he'll probably be shot (After marv) anyways. I'm not worried. RNG is just a tool used to generate discussion, though I'll never admit it. And it worked fine for what it was. Let's focus on actually catching scum. HISTORICALLY IT HAS WORKED AT LEAST ONCE OK are you game for shenannies? Hm... Well I'd lynch Onegu over Slam, sure.... | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:04 marvellosity wrote: Slam why couldn't you post that 10 minutes earlier? What difference would it have made? It was just a listpost, nothing especially townish compared to his clear focus on scumhunting all D1. | ||
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As for rayn/Chromatically, they should be lynched next most likely. Currently undecided on the last suspect. | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: i am qeffectively quitting this game because this is not fun. You mean the pressure? Get used to it. It's a part of playing Mafia. | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: wGFhy do i play with trolls hy do i play with people who are .............iusfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfaoC A Why do you call him troll? He played this game more seriously and focused more on scumhunting than I've ever seen him do. Last time he was scum, he only trolled all game. Nothing like that here. | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:23 marvellosity wrote: i found it very town? would you just fuck off? Not really. Anyone can make listposts. Reading through the thread and making insightful comments on stuff is harder and he did just that. | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: i don't. he should be lynched 100% of the games he "plays" in. I don't really know what to say. I've never seen him put in this much effort, and I think the average level of effort from players is lower than his effort this game. This game is full of veterans so obviously the level of play is generally higher, but still he didn't seem bad or anything. The opposite actually. | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:27 marvellosity wrote: god i hope you are scum, xata. And I hope you are too, but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case based on your last scumgames where you didn't even play. Maybe your level of play as town dropped along with it. | ||
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As for rayn, I'm appeased by the fact that he is scum. | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:45 gumshoe wrote: Bro I've put way more effort into this game than you and def more than slam and thats Besides the fact that I wasn't pushing for a retarded lynch like half of town. I've provided plenty of solid reasons all throughout day 1 for why I deemed gb, rayn and slam town. I scum read you initially and then realized I was flat out wrong before my idiocy impacted the lynch (something you could learn from). Worst thing is, now you fucking group me with the people I wanted gone? That is total bullshit. apologize to gumshoe + Lynch yamato/hopeless day 2= eat crow and profit. What could I learn from? I was right. But I agree that you have actually posted some stuff in this game. Although it's mostly been about policy lynching lurkers. Maybe I should take a small break now. I don't usually get invested enough in games to insult people. | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:56 gumshoe wrote: Also I deduced why Gb is town, I meta read rayn, I gut read slam, worked through some suspicions with Bh, didnt tinfoil against marv, accused Yamato of making a mafia play based off forbidden knowledge, went back and forth on chrom and you and ritoky. I've done tons of thinking and posting and you boiling it down to me accusing lurkers is super shitty I hope you die tonight. And I dont mean in the game. ...... Okay. But that's really what it boils down to, since the other stuff didn't have much impact during the day. At most it gathered responses like "scum post" or "useless wall of text" (not by me, mind you). | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:54 Blazinghand wrote: Wow Xat, you successfully deduced that Marv's scumgame is really bad and apathetic right now how could you figure that out so quickly without help? so clever, you get towncred from me for your original discovery oh no wait oh oh no the opposite of that When did I claim it was an original discovery? I just went and looked for myself since the doubt of you misrepresenting something wouldn't leave my head after your unvote + support of rayn when he was in actual danger. | ||
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On October 24 2015 06:51 gumshoe wrote: your wrong about Rayn / : if things had gone your way it would have been just as bad, only slam wouldnt have started crying green tears like Rayn. Also scum have a harder time just talking than town / : whats wrong with looking at lurkers who have shit reads on top of being lurkers? Well, we'll see. I won't say that there couldn't be scum among the lurkers. | ||
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I guess marv has to be town since he doesn't even play as scum anymore (it's a pretty sad reason, but it is what it is). Blazinghand I still think is town. He was active around the deadline and trying shenanigans, even if scum should have been content with the way things were going. gusmhoe is... town? It's not completely certain, but I think this is the best performance I've ever seen out of him. It would be nice to see more detailed analysis by someone who knows his "active" meta. GlowingBear could be town. I liked some of the things he did later on D1. I think his alignment is rather strongly tied with rayn's. If rayn is scum, he's almost certainly not scum. If rayn is town, he has a decent chance of being scum. Especially considering his switch to rayn when things got heated at the end. Hard to see him doing that as scum with rayn. Hopeless is... what? No idea. Some people said he was sure town, but it's hard to believe that without any evidence. Null. rayn is probably scum. At least I really hope so. His play in this game has been focused on trying to push forward mislynches (me + Slam for certain, plus others with varying probability), OMGUS and unnatural read progression (not dependent on game events, but rather what's convenient for survival/mislynches). Onegu is ? Chromatically could well be scum. Like someone said, he's been kind of mechanical and detached. There's no... real thread presence. Just posting some stuff from time to time. ritoky is town? It felt like he kind of disappeared later on. At least his initial posts were nice.. Hopefully he'll come back in force. If not, I'll reconsider. Dunno about yamato yet. Many people seem to consider him obvtown, but I haven't yet seen anything definitely townie. He's been this inactive as both town/scum in my experience, and usually he's only more active as town. Maybe he will make a grand entrance at some point. | ||
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On October 24 2015 07:11 gumshoe wrote: I have no power over how people chose to take what I've said. But I have been trying, and you of all people who have been harping about my lurker meta should appreciate that as opposed to taking low blows against me. I will be back later with ANOTHER case against hopeless and Yamato. Others can feel free to call them lurker tunneling or shitty wot's if that makes them feel better. Cause you know who gets called a shitposter by everyone till thier blue in the face? The guy whose onto scum : D but isnt good enough to convince town to listen to him )  that or just a shitty player). Regardless I will continue to push the people I think are scum. Not the small horde of poor bastards town will likely go through in the days to come if they all act like you.Well, sorry about the "low blow", but I think it was lower to hope that I would die IRL. Regardless, keep at it. It was a mistake to lump you with Onegu/Hopeless, I admit it. It's better if you keep trying rather than dive into lurkerland. | ||
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On October 24 2015 11:36 GlowingBear wrote: You know slam for such long time rayn. Why does his play style surprises you now? Because he's scum and has to find some excuse for the horrible lynch. Even if the excuse doesn't relate to facts (Slam being less trolly than ever this game). Not to mention, Slam wasn't even lynched for trolling but his serious posts... Who knows why... So it's not really even a passable excuse. 1) overall false and 2) not related to why Slam was lynched | ||
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Not to say that marv should be lynched tomorrow, but if i die, definitely don't trust him blindly and lynch him if things continue like this until LYLO. | ||
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On October 24 2015 11:15 gumshoe wrote: Ritoky's switch onto Onegu last second makes very little sense as scum, if Onegu is town and gets bussed last sec, Ritoky looks terrible. If Onegue is scum, he just helped kill his teamate 0_0 seems like a dumb and unnecessary risk when town is already fixated on slam. It's possible Ritoky was super confident Bh's lynch wouldn't go through, but then why bother at all? Just to distance himself from the slam lynch? Could backfire huge if Onegu actually did get lynched (would look like a last second buss off of Ritoky's buddy slam) Hm yes... That makes some sense. Although I think BH is more towny for starting the whole shenanigans in that situation. If he was scum and either rayn or Onegu was scum, it was madness. Even if they were both town (unlikely), it was just an unnecessary action that could cause trouble for him if a switch actually succeeded. The only way I see it making sense for scum BH (or scum ritoky) is if they were very certain that nothing would come out of it and it would plausibly buy them credibility. That's not even entirely impossible, considering what ended up happening. Still, that seems a lot less likely if either rayn or Onegu was scum (likely). | ||
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On October 24 2015 10:02 ritoky wrote: xata is right about this. slam was the least chupazi he has been in recent games. he was in fact significantly more serious than normal resulting in an around a 50% serious post rate which is astounding for him. as desperate as i am to try and ignore everything rayn posts, when he posts for 3 straight pages....anywayz his reaction is overblown and worthless. + Show Spoiler + at least my meta read on slam is still perfect Did you go the trouble of counting Slam's serious posts in this game? Haha... Would be interesting to also research rayn's attitude to Slam in previous games. If there's a clear contradiction, I mean. | ||
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On October 24 2015 08:58 Chromatically wrote: I think I'm probably wrong about a lot of things this game, so I'm planning on reevaluating everything this night. A lot of the criticism of me is that I'm posting "mechanically" and not interacting with the thread much, and I think that's fair but not something that makes me mafia. I'm trying to put my thoughts in the thread in a clear way, which is probably what people see as mechanical. People have also just kind of ignored the things I post for a lot of this game, so it's a bit difficult to interact with the thread (for example, my whole post on Xatalos was totally ignored by everyone). Maybe that's just because the stuff I was posting was bad and I think that's probably true honestly so I'll try to make it less bad. Well, sorry to say this, but your cases / big posts have been rather unremarkable so far. At least with both the ritoky case and the case on me, I don't think there was really anything noteworthy? Not really sure if you even believed so yourself, looking at how you just went along with the flow and didn't really push / develop either case through discussion? I'll need to relook at you before my possible death though. In the meanwhile, it would be nice if you could post your reconsidered stuff. Preferably with the thought processes you had and considerations for meta / overall motivations, not just general scum traits applied to particular posts. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:03 marvellosity wrote: just popping in to say i'm not playing this game until either xata or i are dead, because apparently i'm not allowed to replace out because i loathe playing with someone this game. You loathe playing with me or playing as scum? Honestly, the abuse I've given you is very limited. You've repeatedly insulted people in this game even while not performing well yourself. If you're town, I think it would be time to look in the mirror and reconsider stuff after the flip... Even more so if I end up dying tonight. If you're scum, feel free to go AFK as seems to be your scum meta. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:10 marvellosity wrote: yeah i had a shitty fucking day yesterday but yes i loathe playing with you. the fact you still think i could still be mafia is just one more reason why you're completely unbearable. not many people make me just not want to play, so thanks for that, you're a star If you're town, I would like you to answer for a couple of things. 1) What do you think of rayn after all that happened? If you have the "ultimate secret to reading rayn", could you elaborate on that? It does nothing if it remains in your head. 2) More generally speaking, did you reconsider anything after Slam ended up flipping town? Mainly your stronger reads? 3) What would be your "last will" if you still somehow got killed tonight? | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:13 marvellosity wrote: also just flicked through my own filter. i've been pretty personable, except to you. seeya. Reasonable? | ||
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We will see about rayn though. If you want to convince me he's town, you should use your godly meta read on him to your advantage rather than some silly (invalid) point about his first posts. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:24 marvellosity wrote: no, this page. you keep talking to me as if i should be playing the game or answering questions. i just made my stance very clear on that. What do you mean? I asked for you to elaborate on your meta read on him, but you just said "I still think he's town"? And you said that only AFTER I had asked if your read on him had changed. | ||
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But I hope you can change that if you're town. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:33 ritoky wrote: y'know marv, tbh i know i had that one big ass fight with you in a mafia thread cuz i felt you were being an elitist snob; but ever since then you've grown on me. i don't mind playing with you and you have your moments, i just think if we're on a mafia team together it is water and oil. being tired and sentimental and emotive over internet people? who the fuck am i right now? An old man of Mafia? | ||
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1) WHY is rayn town based on meta? 2) What would be your "last will" (lynchlist) after all this? I guess it's fine if you answer this one closer to deadline. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:35 marvellosity wrote: and i hope you could stop being such a terrible human being, but i'm not holding my breath Fine, resort to personality insults... Very productive and a sign of mental superiority. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:40 marvellosity wrote: says the guy sneering back at me in also super mature fashion at least i'm not pretending i'm being a little bitch because i despise being in this game with you. i'm ok with this state of affairs. Just remember that I took like 5-10 of your immature insults before resorting to insults myself. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:39 ritoky wrote: 1) marv has a meta read on rayn, he isn't going to tell you it because it would tip his hand to rayn in future games and he prides himself on his meta read which to some degree requires rayn to not know exactly what it is and fake it (my read on slam and damdred is the same) 2) if marv is going to do this, he will do it near the deadline and without you on his nuts. as a spokesperson for marv inc. i can verify he supports these messages. I don't really approve of this. I think it's the same as playing bad on purpose to make your future scum games easier. However, I can somewhat approve waiting until close to deadline for read posts. It's just that I'd like to be able to read them before I die... Or well, if I don't, then I'll have to reconsider some things. | ||
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From what I remember, marv does actually have some amazing scum games where he's played actively and fooled everyone until LYLO. We even talked about one such game in PMs a while ago. However, perhaps this is his current standard. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:58 ritoky wrote: well i am dumpster tier, so if he is amazing scum this game i am gonna lose simply on the fact that there's 12 levels between us and i need to be carried to even glimpse his upskirt. otherwise i am gonna stick to my gutter tier guns. trust the big dogs who can see the forest to find the 2 obvious mafia while i sheep them, meanwhile i will shepherd them away from lynch bait and toward the sneakster mafia i will eventually find and pummel to oblivion. or i will just get carried to a loss/win like always. Heh... The risk with sheeping is if you pick a bad player to sheep. I mean if he's scum / off his game. After being so wrong on D1, I don't think marv deserves unlimited trust. I say that, but it's not actually easy to be correct on D1. I suppose we'll see if marv starts to improve. It's maybe more his confidence in Slam being scum for flimsy reasons that bothers me. From what I remember of his town game, he often hesitates and reconsiders things even up to the final moments of a lynch. | ||
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Even if he's town, he's done way less than Slam. And his towniness is all but certain. | ||
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marv, I truly do respect you as a player and think you're perhaps the best player on TL overall. At least one of the best. I hope you realize that my suspicions towards you have been a sign of respect, not disrespect. Don't you think it's more disrespectful to assume that you can't play at all as scum? That no matter what, you couldn't put some sort of effort into the game unless you're town? That no matter if you push mislynches and defend scum, you must be town if you even bother to make posts? I still don't think you're scum right now, but I think it's actually too disrespectful to say that you're 100% town for your play so far. It would mean you're 100% incapable of actually playing as town, and I think that's too much of an assumption, even if you're burned out. In addition, I think I was being reasonably polite in this game overall until you had repeatedly insulted me for several pages. If it was someone like rayn on the receiving end, I think he would have already snapped and got himself modkilled. Instead, I just got a little payback by insulting your Slam read (which I think was reasonably justified to do). If you're truly unable to continue playing if I show you a little respect by assuming you're not 100% incapable of playing as scum, and give you a rather meek payback for your insults, I don't think I'm the one at fault in that situation. Well, maybe a bit, but I'm not a saint either who can take abuse endlessly and never say anything. I guess it all started with our disagreement over rayn. I assume you have some sort of a godly meta read on him that you don't want to share, but I can't just blindly sheep your enigmatic meta read if other things point at rayn being scum and even you YOURSELF aren't completely sure about rayn. With that, I hope you can continue to play normally and possibly even show me a minimum level of consideration. Well, even just playing would be good. If you're scum, you're of course free to start lurking. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:24 ritoky wrote: if i were the sole vote to lynch tomorrow, as of now it would be between yamato, rayn, and GB. rayn cuz i am basically not reading what he types and his reads sucked. yamato cuz he is hovering around the fringes of the game, or maybe that's just my perception. GB cuz i have played a lot with him and he has no strong opinion on me, and actually i would say he seems to be actively avoiding talking about me; i feel he should have a stronger opinion. he is top disappointment atm. if i were in magical vigi land i would probably shoot onegu cuz yolo free info. This list isn't actually a bad one... Although I doubt rayn/GB could be scum together, but individually each one is plausible as scum. All in all, ritoky might actually be my strongest townread right now. Followed by Vivax, I think. I'm also leaning towards gumshoe being town and BH still has townie factors. What do you think about Chromatically/Onegu/Hopeless though, ritoky? | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:18 ritoky wrote: ##vote: alakaslam cuz BH said so. Meh... This is one thing I don't like too much about ritoky though. Just a moment earlier he said he didn't buy Slam being scum ("it doesn't come along"). | ||
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I still like his posts tonight too much to drop him to null. | ||
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On October 24 2015 23:56 GlowingBear wrote: Why are you guys considering teams when no one has been lynched yet? Xata you don't think Rayn is scum? Hm? | ||
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Lol | ||
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Chromatically... I'm undecided about right now. It kind of feels like he puts a constant effort into the game, and does stuff, but none of it's that impactful. I guess it's the fact that it's hard to see anything that couldn't be from scum, and that's always concerning combined with activity. Still, it's not like there's anything decisively scummy.... marv made some meta point against Chromatically that didn't really feel convincing... Hmm. I guess it's wait and see. If I had to say, I guess I'd say he's scum (PoE / a bit too underwhelming considering the activity), but it's not strong enough to assert he has to be scum, and there's still the whole D2 to see from him. | ||
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1) Giving hard town reads with too much ease and certainty considering the thread content - mainly talking abut ritoky and GB here - which suggests TMI and the confidence that only scum would have with perfect information 2) Reverting said town reads and 100% scumreading those players based on the same filters he earlier used to call them town (sheeping thread sentiment) - this suggests he's not reading the thread and/or his views are decided by the flow of the votes rather than facts 3) Calling me 100% scum because of my vote on him, just like last time he was scum against me (it literally went into full OMGUS mode after he noticed it both here and there) 4) Constantly misrepresenting Slam's play as "trolling" when, in fact, Slam was extremely serious and insightful here compared to his usual self (just looking like an excuse for why the lynch wasn't bad when it actually was) 5) There's really nothing noteworthy or even passable in rayn's posts yet.. He pushed clear town Slam and clear town Xatalos for flimsy reasoning, and he hasn't really done anything since.... Much better should be expected from town rayn, and all this falls in line with his scum play. It's not 100%, so don't just blindly lynch him, but I think it's the best option at the moment. That's my last will. | ||
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Somewhat likely. | ||
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What I'm trying to say is, if I die, don't just sheep marv. I have a nagging bad feeling about him and it won't go away. Either he's really off or possibly even scum. | ||
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That's all dependent on if rayn first flips scum though. | ||
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I repeat: do not lynch GB tomorrow. Not unless rayn is town. | ||
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Like Onegu calls a lot of people scum for... basically just for voting for him or even just for suspecting him. rayn/Onegu for scum.... Probably. I hope ObsQT won't make me facepalm. | ||
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rayn, I'm a bit on the fence if you would kill marv after he was pretty pro-you during D1. I mean, it generally makes sense regardless of the scumteam thanks to his status, but you wouldn't be the most likely suspect for going for his kill. Let's play a game. Who do you think are scum right now, and how have your reads changed after Slam's flip and the posts of the night? | ||
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Though he did say that he wasn't sure about rayn anymore. Life is hard. How I wish marv would have played during N1. | ||
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Not that you have said much of anything productive up to now, and nothing productive at all after Slam flipped. | ||
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Or do I have to automatically assume you two are town and never question your opinions if I want to keep you playing... | ||
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It kind of feels like he wouldn't abandon his team like that as scum... But would he count on others to think like that... WIFOM.... Well, at least last time as scum he continued spewing BS no matter what happened.... Are there cases of rayn just stopping to play as scum? Though it feels a bit cheap if he could be cleared like that. | ||
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Frankly Vivax and BH have felt like they've kind of disappeared from the face of the planet after the earlier part of D1. What are you thinking now? Frankly even Chromatically might overtake you as a townread if this keeps up. During the night, it was mostly just me, ritoky and Chromatically doing stuff. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:26 marvellosity wrote: yeah yamato was much less sexy than i hoped eod 1 meh i have no strong townreads, maybe vivax still think chrome is mafia but that's probably wrong too Hm... Not too much to gain from marv's last readpost... | ||
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There's a bit too much drama for some reason. The Vendetta Strada games were all very enjoyable, and Diplomacy games are generally very enjoyable too, but they were full of drama and rage in the TL Diplomacy games. At least the later ones, the first ones were fine. Why does it have to go into issues of personality and ad hominem. | ||
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Maybe I'll sleep on it and look at things tomorrow. | ||
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On October 25 2015 07:20 Onegu wrote: Me being lynched there and flipping town I guarentee wouldnt have put any pressure on ritoky or BH. People would have just been like you guys are stupid Slam is scum why did you go on Onegu when this is his town meta. It would have been that 100% Ritoky moving is at best NAI In no way at all should it get him a town read. It's not a major part of why I townread him anyway. And still... Your post is assuming that A) you're town (I guess that's understandable from your point of view, if you're town, but not objectively) and that B) ritoky was certain the shenanigans wouldn't cause the lynch to switch into any unfavorable direction when Slam was already being lynched. I've certainly seen very fast shenanigans lynches in the last minutes before. Why bother? It was all set for scum already. | ||
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On October 25 2015 07:40 ritoky wrote: to be fair you instigated a lot of it yourself or if you don't want to talk that level of culpability you harbored a portion of it yourself. mafia is a game of people who wanna have big dicks, egos get bruised every game and if they aren't being bruised than tbh ppl aren't playing hard enough. but then there are anomalies like me who understand their penis is small and have adjusted their life accordingly. Maybe so... But I certainly didn't start the personal insults and I don't think I ever even said anything... IRL-related. The worst I said was, I think, that marv's current level of scum play is sad. Meanwhile I was called "a horrible human being", "a terrible player", "idiot", "stupid", "horrible", "undeserving to play this game", "I loathe you" and many other similar things. I think things should be kept game-related. Calling someone suspicious for something they did, in-game, shouldn't translate to things outside of the game. Maybe I'll just have to assume they're town from now on. I'm just quite hesitant to do that when my high town read, Little Lamb, turned out to be scum after all in a recent game. | ||
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It seems very old already though. | ||
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Here that "we would never see him post again if he was scum" seems to hit much closer to the truth.....? | ||
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On October 25 2015 08:11 Onegu wrote: LIke XXiii or some random number where I town read him without reading his filter. He just quit as scum. That's what he's doing here though? | ||
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On December 03 2013 12:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: I promise i will never be this bad in a mafia game ever. But he was infinitely more useful to town there.... He developed his reads and talked about them even when there was no hope left..... | ||
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This leads me to the conclusion that rayn&Onegu are probably scum... Anyways. ritoky: I'll wait to see what Chromatically has on GlowingBear. As of right now, I'm very reluctant to lynch him because it's very unlikely for him to go at scum rayn when he did as scum. I've already forgotten about Hopeless and yamato. Have they even done anything after the start? The last scum could well be among them. I'm a bit interested in BH's attitude towards rayn (and disappearance from the thread) as well. | ||
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Dunno about Hopeless.... Somehow he seems happy / relaxed in his posts? Is this indicative of town Hopeless? Even if he's unremarkable. | ||
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BH is probably just town after all? | ||
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It makes no sense. So BH is town? Well, this is going into association territory again. | ||
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On October 25 2015 09:01 ritoky wrote: ![[image loading]](http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4d/4df0acb73ca0655cbc344f5ef4994582aaa046ce4f93cd4ea49082e3fa94c559.jpg) like i said, thinking about something that is dependent on rayn = mafia is pointless until rayn flips. Heh, I guess so. But I'm like 97% confident on rayn being scum atm. Funnily enough, Onegu's defense only reinforced my read. Onegu's description of rayn's scum meta fits his play here well and he's playing not at all like in BTTB as town. | ||
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On October 25 2015 09:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am being serious here; I don't want to play when the goes like this: Xata: "rayn is mafia because X and Y" rayn: "no, here is explanation for X and Y" Xata: "hmm okay" ....... Xata: "rayn is mafia because X and Y" rayn: "....... dude wtf? if you call me scum call me scum for how my explanation doesn't make sense" marv: "yeah, rayn is town. Xatalos you're being an idiot" Xata: "hmm okay" ...... Xata: "rayn is scum for X and Y, also marv is scum" rayn: "marv is never scum" marv: "yeah that's quite clear, wtf are you doing Xatalos?" .... Xata: "hmm rayn is scum for X and Y" that went on for like 40 pages. if you can't understand what's wrong here that then you have to be mafia. so, you are either mafia or effectively throwing the game. so am i, if you are town, but idc. i literally don't care anymore. so you can lynch me, i don't care. I am not posting anymore. But jsut that you know, if you happen to somehow be town here, sometimes you SHOULD listen to people who know better... Well, that's not exactly how it went. Even marv got less and less confident in you being town. At some point during D1 he said that I "might be right" and after Slam flipped he stopped townreading you altogether. I also got additional reasons to scumread you as time passed, it expanded greatly from the initial suspicion of your weird read progression. I'll admit that suspecting marv was too paranoid. | ||
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Makes me sad the lynch wasn't between rayn and GB yesterday. Not sad if the lynch is between rayn/Onegu/GB today. | ||
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On October 25 2015 09:18 Chromatically wrote: I think we are getting way way too tinfoily here. I agree with ritoky that doing anything assuming rayn is mafia is silly at this point until rayn flips. Which, I am not very inclined to do now that marv is confirmed town. I'll trust that marv (and probably Onegu) can read rayn better than I can, at least until later in the game when we can talk about whether marv was wrong on rayn if we have to. To be fair marv stopped townreading rayn after Slam flipped, even if he wasn't ready to scumread him either. | ||
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On October 24 2015 18:26 marvellosity wrote: yeah yamato was much less sexy than i hoped eod 1 meh i have no strong townreads, maybe vivax still think chrome is mafia but that's probably wrong too This was before it: On October 24 2015 18:19 marvellosity wrote: maybe rayn is mafia and i was wrong d1, but i still don't think so. that's all. Meaning rayn's basically null / possible town for him, not a strong town lean at the least. That means his top secret meta thing doesn't apply anymore to rayn, at least. And... he basically stopped playing at that point, so who knows if he would have come around to scumread rayn later. | ||
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On October 25 2015 09:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Don't worry just lynch Xatalos on D3. ##vote Xatalos Okay. If you flip town, I'm willing to take responsibility and be lynched. Let's do it. | ||
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On October 25 2015 09:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: no you wont, you are pushing me you fuckface. Hm? | ||
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But that's not really relevant is it.... | ||
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On October 25 2015 09:41 Onegu wrote: Nope Rayn hasnt left yet. He is still town. Xata is making zero sense here. ##Vote: Xata Interestingly enough, you stopped responding to me when I had shown that your meta argument pointed to rayn being scum. You still made other posts. Sometime after, rayn miraculously returned to playing (as if being forced by you), and you came back to say "look, I was right!". This is also enough time to force him to say something in the scumQT. Coincidence? | ||
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For a small moment I thought Onegu might be on to something, but he immediately contradicted himself (he said rayn was playing to his town meta, while proving that rayn was NOT playing to his town meta - by saying that scum rayn would just give up, which rayn did here, but somehow Onegu came to the conclusion that rayn was town - WTF?????). Then sometime afterwards, rayn came back to talk a bit..... Now Onegu takes this as a proof that his argument earlier was right, when AT THAT TIME rayn had practically given up and started trolling for a long time. How could Onegu ever come to the conclusion that scum rayn gives up if pissed -> scum rayn gave up here -> rayn is town. WTF??? It doesn't help at all if rayn posted some sort of real posts in response to that later on. What matters is what happened before it. There Onegu had no way to come to the conclusions he did, from the arguments he made. | ||
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On October 25 2015 10:05 Onegu wrote: he never actually quit. He would be gone already not posting he is leaving. Poof. I wouldn't call posting Spanish walls of texts as playing. | ||
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Vivax: do you think rayn and GB are doing some sort of long-term double bus plan? That sparked my interest. It's a bit hard to believe because they both actually seemed content with lynching each other at points during D1... And from what I gather, they still want to lynch each other even now. However, it could be interesting to have votes focused on rayn/GB today. If they would indeed both be scum, it should show in how the day plays out in that case. Let's make that happen if possible. Chromatically: I am considering that GB could be scum even with the anti-association to rayn (although that might not be as strong as I thought?). It's just that rayn/Onegu seem to fit well as scum together, and both have extremely much dropped in their performance going into D2. Both are also voting for me... Even though I'd say I'm objectively at the highest level of obv-towniness on meta alone. Similar, or more compared to Vivax. I'd say the scumteam is rayn+Onegu+Yamato/GB (with MAYBE Hopeless/Chromatically/BH in there). Which makes me sad, because both rayn and Onegu were up for lynch right until the end on D1. | ||
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Still not completely decided on GB myself... And I would prefer rayn/Onegu for today. | ||
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On October 26 2015 02:03 Onegu wrote: I RNG'd sheeped GB. Anywho football today and this is the first time I can watch in over a month so I am watching. May I ask you what were you thinking about Slam at that time? Though I'm not sure if it's even worth asking at this point...... | ||
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On October 26 2015 02:07 Onegu wrote: I can never read slam, So I had no read on him. Then you voted your 90% townread over a nullread? And you say I make no sense? | ||
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Though that does make me question the rayn/Onegu scumteam, it also makes me question if you could ever think like that as town. The answer is no. | ||
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Regardless of anyone else's alignment, that's just scummy as hell. | ||
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On October 26 2015 02:13 Onegu wrote: Ok... And then you are wrong as I have done the RNG sheep multiple times as town. Do you actually RNG something? Isn't it just sheeping? You didn't even show any RNG like BH did. The fact remains that you sheeped on your townread..... | ||
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On October 26 2015 02:16 Onegu wrote: ##Unvote Still dont like xata and his pushes that make no sense. But he really is the only one talking... I need to think about this more after football. Football You also didn't explain what makes no sense... Except your own posts I guess.... | ||
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It'll remain to be seen if rayn is scum or town. Even if you think he's town, you still voted for him, which makes the persuasiveness of your posts fall to the bottom. | ||
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Maybe I spam too much but still. It'd be nice if there would be more activity. | ||
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Could you explain why you still think Vivax is the most likely scum? He's been decently active, contributing positively whenever he's posted, and as scum he really just actively lurks without participating in any concrete way. | ||
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On October 26 2015 02:36 Blazinghand wrote: Right click the timestamp and copy the link address / destination. Also, your earlier depiction of me being active during the first part of D1 and not during the second part of D1 is pretty hilariously bad given that I didn't really start playing until the last 12 hours of D1, and like 90% of my contributions happened then. Get on point boy If you're hanging around, could you play now as well >.> It's getting too apathetic and scum may be just hiding among the lurking in the worst case. | ||
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1) What are your scumreads right now? 2) Do you still townread rayn and why? Did RNG fail you? 3) What do you make of the flips of Slam and marv? | ||
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I'm not sure if I'm capable of reading Slam that well either. It's just that there was such a HUGE difference to his last scumgame (in a more productive / useful direction here - in that game he just trolled) that it was hard to imagine this much difference between scum Slam games. If it had been the case, I would have been surprised. | ||
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I think I saw rayn explode as scum once though, and he was Vig shot N1 as scum. marv was his teammate and gave up after that. I think rayn was trying to emulate his EMO town meta there, so it's possible the same is happening here... Then again, I agree that antagonizing the host isn't really a reasonable scum play in any form (not reasonable as either alignment, but less so as scum when you're responsible to your team). | ||
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ritoky you don't think Onegu is a suspect? I think he looks worse than Hopeless at least, and probably worse than yamato.... | ||
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- GB: completely static scumread on Vivax that's not affected by anything happening in the thread, and I actually noticed that marv disproved his reasoning during D1 (by showing that Vivax had made overly confident reads before) but that didn't affect anything... it just does indeed feel like he picked someone to scumread and continued calling him scum no matter what... + overall low effort and disinterest towards anything happening in the game... some of the nice posts he's made can't really absolve him at this point - yamato: playing according to his scum meta (inactive, disinterested) - there's one town game where he was inactive as well, but mostly he's been relatively active and a good asset as town, there's nothing like that to be seen here.... - Onegu: gave a high townread for rayn, voted for him over his nullread at deadline when the lynch was still completely undecided.... just this alone I think is impossible for town, he did make an "RNG sheep" vote in a previous game but I just can't accept he would choose to vote for his (supposed) highest townread based on some meta-joke... it just shows that he has zero interest towards solving the game or doing anything... and he has refused to answer several questions from different players that probed into his nonsensical arguments over the game - rayn: disinterested towards the lynch result of D1 (basically sheeping/OMGUSing away to whatever he could), then just started spamming/lurking and caring even less about scumhunting than before So yeah, I'm basically content if any of these players ends up getting lynched right now.... It looks like we still have 3 mislynches even, so I doubt we can lose if we start by cleaning up this pile of scummy. | ||
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I'd perhaps say that it should be Onegu...... Hm. rayn and GB both have something in their favor at least, and yamato does have one game where he's been equally inactive/disinterested as town. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:00 GlowingBear wrote: marv never disproved anything, marv disagreed with me, which is different. And my read on Vivax progressed as he came back to the thread. It's all in my filter. And no, I'm not mafia. Have you ever considered him to be town after the first minute...? I guess you did offer alternative lynches at times, like rayn. I'd really like to hear your overall reads right now. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:03 GlowingBear wrote: Let me ask you something, Xatalos. Will a tunneled townie forget about his scumread one day later? Because Vivax called Yamato scum for being inactive (in less than 24 hours in the game). When yamato turned against me, Vivax gave him a very weird townread (it felt like a joke, Vivax said it was an actual townread). Yamato is inactive now. Vivax never talks about him anymore. He only supports my lynch when people talk about it. I can never see a world where Vivax isn't scum here. Never. Especially now that yamato's inactivity IS indeed scummy, and he is doing nothing, and NOW he's fitting his scum meta. Tbh Vivax did suggest yamato as a lynch today. | ||
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- Onegu: gave a high townread for rayn, voted for him over his nullread at deadline when the lynch was still completely undecided.... just this alone I think is impossible for town, he did make an "RNG sheep" vote in a previous game but I just can't accept he would choose to vote for his (supposed) highest townread based on some meta-joke... it just shows that he has zero interest towards solving the game or doing anything... and he has refused to answer several questions from different players that probed into his nonsensical arguments over the game He simply doesn't care about catching scum, at all. And he's contradicting his own reads and offering messed up arguments that he can't answer for when probed. LYNCH ONEGU! I think I'd like to give rayn and GB another day, perhaps. yamato seems like a fine lynch too. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:15 GlowingBear wrote: Yes, I've tried to read him coming from a townie perspective. He could be town? Yes, but I'm fairly certain he isn't. I have you as town for filter length and activity, you seem to care about the game which is the towniest trait one can have right now. I have chromatically as town, still. I find hard to believe any scum would put so much effort into writing a scum case on you and me, reading filters and shit. I think Rayn can be mafia but his rage quit is giving me pause. Nonetheless, his flip on me + slam's read on him all points out to him being mafia. I don't trust his rage on slam very much because, well, he knows how slam plays and slam was actually being productive - but productive against Rayn. I am very suspicious of Onegu. I will always think he is a good lynch. Hopeless has some townie posts but some of them are too similar to Avogadro's mini mafia. I think gumshoe might be town just because he is defending me. I can't see mafia motivation behind defending me. Now that yamato is extremely unproductive I can see him being scum. As I said, yamato is one of the players that we can have better reads on later days. And here we are. I don't know what to do with BH. Some of his posts seems very townie, others seems like fluff. I particularly dislike his "eternal dining" posts. On the other hand, I think the has being thinking about the game critically, so he is probably town. I don't know if I forgot someone. Hm... ritoky? In any case, seems decent enough. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:25 Chromatically wrote: I definitely don't disagree with anything you've said here and I am in favor of an Onegu lynch. Sadly, "not caring about catching scum" doesn't only apply to him this game, it easily applies to GB, Hopeless, yamato at least. The one point "in favor" of him compared to GB in my opinion is that he usually (to my knowledge, haven't checked very much) plays like this, with extreme low effort. There's still some time in the day though so we can see what happens, it's possible I decide that Onegu is a better lynch later depending on how things go. Having GB and Onegu as the wagons is excellent though. Hm, I think Onegu/yamato seems better.... I think there's actually a chance GB is town... | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:35 gumshoe wrote: The choice should definitely be Yamato and Onegu, but the difference between them was best put by Marv. people expect things of Yamato, whereas this game is par for the course with Onegu / : both are fine lynches but the edge should definitely go to the guy who if scum, was playing based off a scum agenda and was actually trying somewhat. Hm... Well I'm not really opposed to consolidating on yamato. Right now I just think there's slightly more reason to lynch Onegu since he's done so many things unexplainable as town. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:52 Chromatically wrote: Hmm. I think the meta points are much stronger than any bits of lightly town moments that can be found in his filter. Honestly after playing as mafia in a few games I feel like making posts that sound vaguely townie as mafia isn't that hard. I guess that depends on what kind of stuff specifically you're talking about though. Mainly referring to his meta defense of me, genuine-feeling rant about being voted for and going after rayn instead of Slam in that situation.... I guess none of those are really impossible from scum, it's just that each thing felt more likely to come from town. | ||
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On October 26 2015 08:54 gumshoe wrote: I know XD I blurred out GB's name. Yamato is a very experienced player, even when lurking you can see his usefulness. Theres none of that this game, all his actions have been a detriment to town. Onegu is a shit poster troll with a place in callers pantheon. Theres really no comparison between them. Also do you really think Gb is scum with Yamato? If not (which is what you should think, cause thinking otherwise would be derp) then just vote Yamato, he is far sketchier then Gb XD and if he flips scum you can easily rule out Gb as a suspect. This lynch is basically as good as lynching Gb, except we get to keep Gb and lynch scum : D haha.... Take an upvote for the funny post I keep wondering if this is really the same gumshoe I played with in a couple of games before. I don't think I've ever seen you even make a single good post before, and this game is filled with good posts from you. I'm almost ready to quit Mafia if gumshoe is scum in this game. That's how surprised I'd be. I'll leave my vote on Onegu for now, but if it comes down to it, I'll join the yamato wagon. | ||
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On October 26 2015 09:01 Chromatically wrote: I love calling people town for good reasons as mafia lol, it makes me feel honest because I don't have to lie to everyone about what I think for once. Rant thing, okay. What do you mean by going after rayn instead of Slam? This post where he votes rayn? Ah yeah, I mean, he went directly against rayn (who was losing steam and a tougher opponent than Slam) instead of just voting for Slam or going AFK or something. In the worst case, that could have led to him being lynched... If marv jumped on that vote switch etc. | ||
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I doubt yamato will flip town and it's especially interesting to note that yeah, yamato/GB hardly makes sense... Meaning that lynching one of them would make sense here, and I think yamato is the better choice. | ||
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On October 26 2015 09:19 Chromatically wrote: I think you're talking about when him and rayn were kind of yelling at each other? Like he could have voted for Slam or gone AFK at that point, but doing that makes him look uninterested in the lynch/doesn't give him something to post about. Whereas if he just argues with rayn for a little bit, he looks active and opinionated just for yelling at rayn for reading him wrong. Oh yeah this... Well anything is possible, and maybe I'm a bit biased since he was one of the few to support me in that situation, but... I just think it's a bit risky to do anything "splashy" when he was still in danger zone himself. Safer to stay low, I guess? I think there's merit in your meta arguments and the way how GB has pretty much just scumread Vivax all game for weak reasons, but I still don't think GB is the primary suspect today. | ||
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Not that I disagree with lynching him. Maybe I'll get to sleep soon... | ||
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I have a harder time believing these latest posts are from town rayn though. Just throwing suspicion and flame around, not even trying to figure out the game in any reasonable way. What I'm confused about is the rayn-GB relation. It's kind of hard to believe they're scum together.... But then why isn't rayn really pushing for GB, the easiest option, and instead voting for people like Slam and me? To lessen the anti-association? Because they're teammates after all? Meh. That can be resolved after this lynch, I think. | ||
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On October 26 2015 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: preferrably like 1,5 hours before so i can type out everything i have to say. Why not say it now? | ||
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Seriously, I'm far from the only one scumreading you. And you're not doing anything to help town, actually actively playing anti-town since N1/D2. Yet everything's my fault? | ||
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I really hope neither of them are town. | ||
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On October 26 2015 21:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Slam's play was surprisingly bad unless i am mafia so now, lynch me. I will. All in due time. Just suffer in this game for a bit longer. | ||
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Still not quite sure what you're even doing today. Don't you have anything to say abou the main issue at hand, Yamato vs GB? I'm STILL the best possible lynch...? | ||
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Slam, prolly better just to complain in ObsQT / post-game.. | ||
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On October 26 2015 23:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Literally Xatalos, even if i thought you were town my vote will not move for the rest of the game. I almost did that once, threw the game (from what i knew at that point). Here i am not even willing to reconsider. 100%. What did you even mean with this post? I guess then that you hard tunneled someone in some old game and faltered, making you then tunnel me even harder this game? Or what? | ||
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But your turn will come, fear not. If you kill me tonight, it'll just be the final nail in your coffin. If not, it won't help you either. Well, currently you still have time to prove yourself on the off-chance you're town, so use it wisely. | ||
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On October 26 2015 23:49 Onegu wrote: This is my problem with you Xata. You pick something scummy out. Then it is shown to you the people doing it have done the same thing as town, and your response is they are more scum for it. Again: in your case I could somehow accept your meta defense, making it slightly less scummy how you handled the lynch, but it's still scummy as hell. In rayn's case your point went something like "scum rayn would just stop trying", which he did here. In BTTB he was seriously contributing until he died. | ||
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On October 26 2015 23:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck you your reads are even more bad than mine. Your top scumread is me, obvious town (though apparently it's out of spite rather than scumminess.. even worse if so). You townread Yamato and Onegu, useless lurkers who usually get at least something done with their posts as town (Yamato) or who contradict their own reads and make no sense with their posts (Onegu). I doubt my reads can be any worse. | ||
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On October 27 2015 00:04 Vivax wrote: Can you leave behind this ridiculous drama ? There's a game to solve and if you're good at that, you're a good townplayer. If you're good at being boo-fucking-hoo you're a terrible townplayer. I was considering just starting to counter-troll but I guess you're right... | ||
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On October 27 2015 00:18 Chromatically wrote: Doesn't this mean that Onegu is the better lynch? Also is anyone (other than gumshoe) voting yamato for reasons other than just lurking? Hmm... Maybe slightly. But I'm content with yamato since as town, he's usually considerably more active and invested than this. There was one game I played where he was lurking as town, but at least he posted some valuable posts when he was there. Here... pretty much nothing. Just playing CS/Dota and totally unmotivated. Fits his scum style - starting weak and then dropping off the thread. | ||
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On October 27 2015 00:32 Chromatically wrote: Here's the page before that post for others: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?page=83 Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But it felt very very out of place to say "Xata is making zero sense here." when Xatalos hadn't said anything about the meta on rayn for a page or two since you last posted. It felt like you wanted to put a vote on Xatalos and just threw some justification about how you didn't like what he was saying without really checking if it made sense with what he was saying in the thread at that time. Someone else read it and tell me if I'm thinking too much into it. You're preaching to the choir here | ||
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On October 27 2015 01:22 GlowingBear wrote: You're trying to prove a point. The point is that the slam playstyle is annoying and useless. But the point you proved is that slam is fun to play with and you're not, regardless if you're trolling or actually playing. Because nowadays when you're actually playing you're beig bad and when you're trolling you can't get a laugh out of anything you post. You just proved to be a cry baby. Grow up. +1 | ||
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On October 27 2015 01:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: and you are the worst. and i am mad at myself because i cant actually scumread you. Well that's progress.... As someone said, it's practically impossible to be 100% correct with a huge filter like this. Since I'm town, I don't have perfect information. You might have that information as scum and laugh at some mistakes I've made (like the momentary lapse of including marv in a potential scumteam), but your other reads have been simple bullshit (read on me - false, read on Slam - false, reads on yamato/Onegu - most likely false). Dunno about GB, but you at least haven't convinced anyone on him with your own posts. So if you're scum, I guess I can understand saying these things, but if you're town, it's just unbelievable arrogance and overestimation of your own contributions. | ||
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On October 27 2015 01:42 Hopeless1der wrote: im basically never going to vote for Xata or Rayn (maybe rayn in lylo) they're my top town. Loving gumshoe's and BH's recent posting, like chromatically as well. Kind of null about GB, I'd vote him but more on a PoE basis. ##Vote: Yamato77 also you guys voting rayn while thinking hes town....you're as bad as him for doing that. Hm yeah... I think yamato is a bit safer of a choice. It's somehow possible that rayn could just have went to a deep tunnel and never got out of it. | ||
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On October 27 2015 01:52 gumshoe wrote: What do you think of Hopeless supporting my Yam lynch? Could it be a bus? I'll be honest, out of the three prime lurkers this game (hopeless, yam, onegu) I think hopeless is most likely to be an actual townie lurker. But yeah I'll look at his super short filter again -_- maybe I missed something I don't really have Hopeless on my scum radar atm, so I don't mind the support. If he's scum, I doubt he has the power to do much anyway so he could have just decided to bus at this point. | ||
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On October 27 2015 01:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: one day guys. read my posts. one day. Maybe after you've flipped. | ||
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On October 27 2015 02:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: lynch yamato he is mafia. what the heck...? | ||
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On October 27 2015 02:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: i guarantee you are lynching town. gj. Just now you said he was scum though | ||
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On October 27 2015 02:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Scum QT: Xatalos: rayn is annoying gumshoe: yeah Xatalos: lynch him gumshoe: no we cant Xatalos: yeah we can gumshoe: i am not sure Xatalos: yes lynch him gumshoe: mhmhm.---- ok Xatalos: gogogoog gumshoe: no you have been bad Xatalos: no i am good gumshoe: fuck you Xatalos: shit gumshoe: but what if GB gets lynched? Xatalos: so bad gumshoe: yes to be continued.... LOL Thanks, you were funny for once | ||
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On October 27 2015 02:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: just because for the last 10 hours i have ACTUALLY played this game. It's a bit sad to say, but I actually preferred when you were just trolling and lurking... If only you could be reasonable and constructive when posting. Btw: hypocrite scum for accusing GB of that | ||
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On October 23 2015 07:21 ritoky wrote: y'know, gonna be honest here. you're the most underwhelming player that people tell me is good on these forums. i just don't see it; maybe i am the one who is so bad i can't comprehend your greatness; but i don't think that's the case. On October 23 2015 07:26 ritoky wrote: i think i am content ignoring everything you say in every game going forward; it doesn't have much value or good reason in it anywayz. On October 23 2015 07:27 ritoky wrote: it's an opinion gathered over many games; not just this one. | ||
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"I think if i have this convo with someone they think i am mafia, at least they should imo." which I disagree with | ||
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On October 27 2015 03:28 gumshoe wrote: Look Chrom, I love you man but look at the guy whose on your side T_T does he look like the most reliable of indications that your on the right track? :D:D:D Actually laughed out loud. Thanks. In all seriousness, WTF is that latest case by rayn? I don't get it. GB didn't even quote then in the wrong order. First he quotes your switch post, then says "it's a huge shift from this" where is your earlier full townread of him based on the same filter. | ||
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On October 27 2015 04:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: "i think yamato is mafia because rayn is not voting for him, but regardless od who rayn is voting for it's an okay lynch" Isn't that just a pretty sensible sentence? Even though it's not exactly what I said. | ||
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Even if he was scum, I'd gladly hand the victory over to him. Rather than share victory with you if you happen to be town. I doubt yamato will flip town though, so that should at the latest clear gumshoe anyway. And GB probably as well. | ||
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The yamato wagon is feeling better and better. Basically I feel like everyone in it could easily be town. | ||
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On October 27 2015 06:23 Blazinghand wrote: Ugh, as awful as it is to admit, this is a valid objection. right now we have a "lynch yam cause he's lurking" coalition of 5 people, and one of those is hopeless1. So if we lynch Hopeless1 and he flips town, and then one of us is shot, Yam goes free. Jesus christ this is a clusterfuck Yeah that'd be a nasty situation >.> And makes it all the more likely for yamato to be scum since there's only barely enough support to get him lynched, whereas usually town get lynched more easily (like Slam did). | ||
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On October 27 2015 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: at least shennie to GB if yamato does not come back please BH. ScumQT: rayn: hey they might get off you, be ready to vote at deadline yamato: k rayn: easy mislynch and they waste a day lynching you tomorrow, gg | ||
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On October 27 2015 06:54 Blazinghand wrote: I'm staying on yam and at 2 minutes out, if he hasn't voted, I'm moving to GlowingBear. I will have a "change my vote back to Yamato" post queued up and will post it if I see him come back Are you really sure? rayn and yamato could ninjavote GB to take him down | ||
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On October 27 2015 06:56 Chromatically wrote: I think my logic here is right? Killing two people today is always worse for town because it's just using one of our later lynches a day early. Kind of... although there's also the point that scum can kill off the most useful townies, but I think the information over time could still outweigh that | ||
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On October 27 2015 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: the lynch was terrible in the first place. Says the one who pushed obvtown Slam D1 | ||
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On October 27 2015 07:12 gumshoe wrote: My reasoning was that if Yam flips scum, then Gb is town, cause yam made a straight up kill play on Gb early on, so I was hoping to kill Yam and prove Gb's innocence that way. woulda rather shenayneed onto hopeless or onegu but was too late to make that happen. ^ yeah | ||
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On October 27 2015 07:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: so you guys wanted to lynch yamato because "it would prove GB town"? Well it didn't work, but there was a good chance it could have. At least an obstacle is out of the way. This also means that GB is more likely scum than before which is useful information. | ||
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gumshoe: You're basically my top town at this point, and I see you heavily townread rayn, even more so than you townread me..? I'd like to see what you're seeing.. As for me, I think its ridiculous for him to accuse people of not jumping on GB at the end, when he himself was heavily SCUMREADING GB, heavily TOWNREADING Yamato and yet didn't bother to hammer GB. His vote would have made the votecount even, enabling Yamato or someone not voting for Yamato to vote for GB and give him the lead... But he was content just spamming "Yamato is town, haha, suckers please lynch him!". This would make sense if he's scum with GB OR if GB is town and rayn just wants to keep him as a mislynch push or something... What's more, not sure what's up with that, but he said "good night", then came back close to deadline when things were heated - makes me think he was just hanging in scumQT until then. And ultimately I'm not sure if the host attack thing is so good for him... He's generally trigger-happy and his comment to the host wasn't even that offensive, so it's not unbelievable for scum rayn to say it. Maybe thinking that Rels wouldn't have the balls to modkill him as scum for it. I also think BH and Vivax are town... And probably Chromatically. Mainly based on how interested they seemed towards the D2 lynch and solving the situation. ritoky has fallen off a bit, and Onegu and Hopeless are still doing nothing to help. GB.... I really don't know. I want to think he's town because he agrees with my reads and townreads me with the best possible reasoning. It's just that his play has kind of lacked drive and him flipping scum would basically clear Chromatically, and probably ritoky/rayn? It's not the worst lynch, I guess. I still feel like rayn/Onegu would be better for their practically unthinkable behaviors towards the lynches (for town, making a lot of sense for scum..). | ||
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In the event you're town, rayn, I really have nothing left to say. I used to enjoy playing with you among the most on these forums, but now I just wish you had never joined. You almost made Slam quit TL Mafia to satisfy your own ego, and insulted almost everyone in the game so far with ad hominem attacks (which don't really have a place on TL Mafia IMO). It tells something that a lot of people wanted to lynch you yesterday even though they thought you were town. | ||
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You could have refrained from continuing to trash me if you couldn't take a counter-blow, right? I'm just sick of you saying that my reads are static. I've switched my reads plenty of times. | ||
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Back on topic, I really hope rayn is scum... But it's hard to say for sure. Like, a lot of what he's done generally only makes sense as scum... But it's impossible to completely rule out the chance of town rayn.. Considering the amount of drama that's happened in the past too.. | ||
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On October 27 2015 23:35 GlowingBear wrote: STOP trying to fit a team Just STOP It's unflipped association and it is bad. Want to know if I'm town? Lynch Vivax. When he flips scum, you'll know I'm town. Could you make a really convincing case on him or something? In the 1% chance he actually could be scum... Although if we lynch him and he flips town (likely), I think we just lose, since there are enough lurkers / question marks that wasting our only "free"' mislynch is a pretty difficult things to come back from... | ||
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On another note, it'll be interesting to see who gets shot tonight. Maybe Vivax, BH, gumshoe or me... It should depend on what the actual scumteam is. | ||
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On October 22 2015 18:36 marvellosity wrote: I can't wait. I love these yamato promises. ROFL | ||
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hahahaha | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:47 marvellosity wrote: yeah? hopefully i'll pick that up later Hmmmm..... This started to concern me a bit though.... | ||
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On October 24 2015 00:51 marvellosity wrote: okay, you are welcome to think this but when i end up being right about rayn, i reserve the right to never listen to your opinions in any game ever again. Heh.... Now I really hope rayn is scum.... Too bad I forgot to demand a counter-bet | ||
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On October 24 2015 05:19 marvellosity wrote: best two reasons to lynch slam: 1. he said he couldn't be lynched d1 2. piss xata off ....... :/ | ||
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I guess I was a bit too persistent in arguing with him though, overall. Neither of our attitudes were really too productive in those moments. The points with Chromatically gave me some renewed concern. It's also a bit uncomfortable how rayn soft defended him, then marv went to see for himself and showed it wrong... Why would town rayn give that defense then in the first place? Not sure how you got ritoky = scum though Vivax? I agree he's been less and less noteworthy over time, but... Did marv ever suspect him? | ||
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I guess that's a bit of a weird reaction... How sold are you on this dream team of rayn/Chromatically/ritoky? I still kind of feel like Onegu is scum, and he seems like a safe lynch tomorrow. Then again, I guess there's always the incomprehensible possibility that he's town and just plays like this... I guess he did play a bit similarly as town in that earlier game.... And marv liked him too... >.> I really don't want to believe it though...Hopeless is pretty much a policy lynch... I guess that team wouldn't be impossible. Least confident on ritoky maybe, but rayn can very easily be scum and Chromatically could be too, considering that weird soft defense of him by rayn (which actually fits him more with his scum meta here? - picking a target and continuing to push it through eternity).. hm... In that case I'd want to lynch rayn first of all though. All of these 3 have wanted GB dead so I guess that's a point for GB? | ||
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On October 28 2015 03:31 Chromatically wrote: Why are you telling GB how to play??? Telling someone "if you're town, then do this" is the complete opposite of helpful because they can just do it and then you have zero idea of their alignment. You have to look at how he plays on his own without saying "hey you should do this". That's why I didn't ask GB for reads or his top lynches or anything when I was talking to him. If I ask him and he does it, I don't learn anything about his alignment. What matters is if he does it when I don't tell him what he should do. I just said those things because I kind of feel like he could be a townie who's on the wrong track. He feels so overly paranoid that it's a bit more indicative of town than scum... Well, I guess the other explanation is that he's just scum and making impossible shit up as he goes, but wouldn't scum GB want to improve his chances of survival tomorrow, rather than ruin his chances by antagonizing the only people who consider him to be town to some extent? | ||
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Let us know what you find :D | ||
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On October 28 2015 03:58 GlowingBear wrote: No because I specifically asked this to him and he said it wouldn't change much and that he just wanted to clear me to the others. Even if that's the case, he said he'd be reluctant to lynch you, I think? But I can understand it wouldn't be easy for him to hard oppose it after the yamato wagon failed. And in any case, gumshoe has been overall the most contributive, good poster, I think.... | ||
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On October 28 2015 02:26 gumshoe wrote: It'll be Bh, hes the most calm level headed person here. The one that most agree is town. I just engineered a lynch on a townie so its not gonna be me / : and theres no reason for scum to end the shit show that is you and Rayn. Barring scum incompetence and weird meta, Bh is probs done. Bh, you gotta get as many reads in as possible tonight ) : So I dont think we have much choice in the next few lynches. Chrom is probs town, as there was no reason to push Gb as hard as he did when the lynch was already going great for scum. So adding him to my town pile only leaves a few possibilitys. Hopeless never mentioned yam at all really until his vote, so thats an obvius one. Onegu's vote on hopeless was super pointless for a townie. The kind of thing I could see him doing because he knew both wagons (gb and yam) were town and wanted to be like "hah! I was the only guy who knew what was up yo" he may have also wanted to distance himself from hopeless. Early on Onegu mentioned that he wouldnt be very useful, but that he would be fairly right most of the time. sounds kinda like scum no? Then theres Gb, there may not be any way to avoid lynching him honestly / : so long as players like chrom and rayn are set on Gb, town cant really function. That and I might have just been wrong about him T_T I have one more potential scum read, but at this point the well becomes pretty foggy and there's no point calling up a shitstorm when I don't have any hard evidence. I will say that if Onegu and hopeless arent both scum, then someone here has been playing a really good game. Which means were in trouble ) : If we want a certain lynch, these two would probally be best. But it might too much for town to function until we've cleared Gb so hes the other choice / : Between Hopeless and Onegu, I would lynch hopeless first. Otherwise Gb will have to go just as a matter of course / : even though I really am not that sold on him. Oh yeah I missed this post. I wondered a bit where GB found his quote. Is the "calling a shitstorm" referring to calling rayn scum? Well, since we have one "free" mislynch left, I guess GB wouldn't be the WORST option. At least lynching him would solve a lot of mysteries about how the game has went. Unlike say, lynching hopeless. But lynching rayn would be equally informative and more likely to hit scum IMO... Then there's Onegu too.... | ||
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On October 28 2015 05:00 Chromatically wrote: I think ritoky has shown well that he's legitimately trying to figure the game out, which is like the #1 town sign. The way he posts what he's thinking feels very town to me. Plus he's said the exact thing I was thinking many times. I'm pretty confidant in it. What's your reasoning on rayn being scum now? I'm feel fairly confident that he's town now and I'd be interested to know what about him you think is scummy at this point (probably in your filter, but that's really really long). I don't see how that would ruin his chances of survival though. You lynch people for doing scummy things, not because they "antagonized" you or gave you a scumread. Like, GB hasn't even been inactive this night phase. He's been around a lot, and posting. So what is he doing?? He still says we should lynch Vivax. IF he's town, he's about to get mislynched and NO ONE wants to lynch his target. But he's not posting a case, he's not trying to talk to people and convince them to lynch Vivax, he's just existing. ESPECIALLY compared to his town pushes. Well I can link to my last post about rayn in my next post... I mean, theoretically everyone would be calm and consider things objectively. But this game is a prime example of how that hasn't been the case. I'd imagine that pushing the people defending him wouldn't help their motivation to keep defending him... | ||
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On October 27 2015 18:43 Xatalos wrote: gumshoe: You're basically my top town at this point, and I see you heavily townread rayn, even more so than you townread me..? I'd like to see what you're seeing.. As for me, I think its ridiculous for him to accuse people of not jumping on GB at the end, when he himself was heavily SCUMREADING GB, heavily TOWNREADING Yamato and yet didn't bother to hammer GB. His vote would have made the votecount even, enabling Yamato or someone not voting for Yamato to vote for GB and give him the lead... But he was content just spamming "Yamato is town, haha, suckers please lynch him!". This would make sense if he's scum with GB OR if GB is town and rayn just wants to keep him as a mislynch push or something... What's more, not sure what's up with that, but he said "good night", then came back close to deadline when things were heated - makes me think he was just hanging in scumQT until then. And ultimately I'm not sure if the host attack thing is so good for him... He's generally trigger-happy and his comment to the host wasn't even that offensive, so it's not unbelievable for scum rayn to say it. Maybe thinking that Rels wouldn't have the balls to modkill him as scum for it. | ||
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On October 28 2015 05:05 Blazinghand wrote: We should try to avoid thinking about "free" mislynches, though. If we do mislynch tomorrow, although we don't lose, we'll be going into 4-3 LYLO, which is a pretty tall order in general. We should try to do our best to shoot for the best chance of lynching scum tomorrow, rather than speculating on what lynch will give us the most information-- unless we really really don't think we have a good chance of lynching scum. Yeah, it's certainly better to hit scum information-wise as well... What I meant that it's kind of a coin-flip to lynch Hopeless and he wouldn't provide too much information with his flip.... Well, I guess that would depend on how the wagons form too. Now that I mentioned, I should recheck hopeless. | ||
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But I guess that will become clearer with the next NK / lynch too... | ||
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On October 28 2015 05:14 gumshoe wrote: No, someone else, If chrom(why push gb as hard as he did day 2? Would look like shit after a green flip), ritoky(the onegu shenani and a general town vibe) bh(obviusly) rayn(twat) you(also obs) and me(most obs) are town and one of us is getting shot. That only leaves 4 suspects. three of which should be scum. If im actually right this time, we win as long as we dont lynch outside those 4. Its that or enough scum have been outclassing town that winning is gonna be a real bitch. All that said we really cant afford to waste our mislynch on Rayn T_T Historically I've been very good at reading him as town when everyone wants his head so though I agree 100 percent that he deserves a fire beneath his feet, it's not how were gonna win / : bonus points for Rayn. I dont think he would have shot marv n1 considering marv was controlling town and defending him, I also dont buy a scum Rayn bieng this mean to you Xata. Rayn is only this much of an ass to people hes actually emotional twoards / : that and Rayn's day 1 looked fine. If Gb flips scum, thats all the more reason to write Rayn off as town / : so if we do plan on lynching gb at some point, rayn would only come after that if ever. What, Vivax...? | ||
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On October 28 2015 05:19 Blazinghand wrote: In general I've found 1Gu's posting significantly more problematic (as well as his various dodges, especially near the end of D2-- look where his vote is). What are your thoughts on 1Gu? I think he's the most likely scum out of the suspect trio of GB/Onegu/hopeless. Mainly because of his nonsensical votes, lack of effort (despite non-lurker activity) and avoiding certain questions. | ||
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On October 27 2015 01:42 Hopeless1der wrote: im basically never going to vote for Xata or Rayn (maybe rayn in lylo) they're my top town. Loving gumshoe's and BH's recent posting, like chromatically as well. Kind of null about GB, I'd vote him but more on a PoE basis. ##Vote: Yamato77 also you guys voting rayn while thinking hes town....you're as bad as him for doing that. I guess I don't really hate this post... Even if it's his only post D2. | ||
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On October 28 2015 05:14 gumshoe wrote: No, someone else, If chrom(why push gb as hard as he did day 2? Would look like shit after a green flip), ritoky(the onegu shenani and a general town vibe) bh(obviusly) rayn(twat) you(also obs) and me(most obs) are town and one of us is getting shot. That only leaves 4 suspects. three of which should be scum. If im actually right this time, we win as long as we dont lynch outside those 4. Its that or enough scum have been outclassing town that winning is gonna be a real bitch. All that said we really cant afford to waste our mislynch on Rayn T_T Historically I've been very good at reading him as town when everyone wants his head so though I agree 100 percent that he deserves a fire beneath his feet, it's not how were gonna win / : bonus points for Rayn. I dont think he would have shot marv n1 considering marv was controlling town and defending him, I also dont buy a scum Rayn bieng this mean to you Xata. Rayn is only this much of an ass to people hes actually emotional twoards / : that and Rayn's day 1 looked fine. If Gb flips scum, thats all the more reason to write Rayn off as town / : so if we do plan on lynching gb at some point, rayn would only come after that if ever. Oh yeah.. Hm. Scum rayn was pretty annoying towards me in the VS game too, though. Even though I was correct all along hehe | ||
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On October 28 2015 05:27 gumshoe wrote: I think the argument against Hopeless could be put best by Bh. With not even two pages of filter, theres no way that Hopeless looks more scummy than anyone here / : I dont doubt that hes very careful about not slipping up, the whole notion that scum will deliver themselves to us on a platter is something I have fought with people from mah very first game. Scum are fairly capable of not looking all that scummy / : If Hopeless is town, than that means that means at least 2 scum have outclassed town enough that if even we play optimally we lose almost no matter what. Shitty, yes. But I'm not gonna vote for someone I am confident is town just because the actual town fucked up that bad / : Hm... Well, it's a risk either way. But I think I liked hopeless's posts better than yamato's.... | ||
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Could it be just so easy that it's GB+Onegu+hopeless... But I kind of liked hopeless's filter (for what little was there).... dunno | ||
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On October 28 2015 05:11 Chromatically wrote: Yeah keeping his vote on you was an absolutely stupid thing to do as either alignment. It made zero sense. So why is doing that as mafia less likely than doing it as town? Unless he's in a team with GB (unlikely), there would be no harm in putting his vote on GB instead of you. He certainly had justified a switch enough at that point. Keeping GB as a mislynch for later..? Why not keep yamato as the mislynch? It's a totally nonsensical move as either alignment --> non-alignment indicative. (Maybe even more likely town because it puts attention on him, but that can be WIFOM too). I think the thing about saying "good night" is a non-point. I've said I'm leaving before and come back to the thread after that, really not more likely as mafia than town. Oh yeah this... Well, as town he SHOULD have cared about his townread being lynched over his scumread. Instead, he didn't care one bit. As scum it's explainable by just being fine whatever townie got lynched. I guess the "gn" thing isn't much of a point. | ||
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On October 28 2015 05:38 Chromatically wrote: I'm really low on time so I'm just going to do some quick thoughts on Onegu. Onegu clearly hasn't done much this game. Of course, he's not interested in finding mafia, hasn't shown a townie thought process, etc. His reads are on a totally different page then mine (ritoky and BH as mafia?). A lot of his posts feel like they're just throwing suspicion somewhere: Like this post felt really strange to me, didn't say anything about ritoky's alignment but just vaguely threw suspicion on me and him. He was extremely confident (unjustified) in townreads on rayn (during that conversation N1). He voted rayn after saying he's 99% town (although apparently he could have done it as town). I explained this earlier too, "Xata is making zero sense here" did not fit into the conversation at all because Xatalos hadn't posted anything that Onegu disagreed with for a while. It seems like Onegu wanted to vote Xatalos to be consistent with what he was saying and just threw an explanation on there without it making much sense. Out of time so I know these aren't very well explained, but I think most people get the idea by this point. And here it disturbed me a little bit how he was so anxious about GB stepping up to play out of a lynch: On October 28 2015 03:31 Chromatically wrote: Why are you telling GB how to play??? Telling someone "if you're town, then do this" is the complete opposite of helpful because they can just do it and then you have zero idea of their alignment. You have to look at how he plays on his own without saying "hey you should do this". That's why I didn't ask GB for reads or his top lynches or anything when I was talking to him. If I ask him and he does it, I don't learn anything about his alignment. What matters is if he does it when I don't tell him what he should do. But dunno... It's so hard to think he's scum either when several players aren't putting in much (if any) effort... | ||
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On October 28 2015 06:31 Blazinghand wrote: Here's highlighted final vote counts from each day Going with a GB/1Gu/H1 scumteam (the "naive" scumteam, the three most scummy players in the game), things would have looked like: + Show Spoiler [sepculation] + Day 1 Alakaslam (8): raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Hopeless1der, yamato77, Chromatically, Vivax, gumshoe, Blazinghandraynpelikoneet (3): Alakaslam, GlowingBear, Onegu Onegu (2): ritoky, Xatalos Day 2 yamato77 (4): gumshoe, Xatalos, Hopeless1der, Vivax, GlowingBear (3): Chromatically, ritoky, Blazinghand raynpelikoneet (1): GlowingBear Xatalos (1): raynpelikoneet Hopeless1der (1): Onegu What immediately stands out to me about this theory is that it would mean 2 of 3 votes on rayn were by scum. Perhaps hoping to come out of it smelling like roses (and GB does stay on rayn the next day) after the slam flip. During Day 2, GB and 1Gu are on off-wagons, but both actually have completely the ability to kill yamato over GB. As it stands, they don’t look implicated by the Yamato flip. There’s nothing inherently broken about this possibility. Not saying this makes this scum; but we can’t rule them out based on association alone. The scumteam could work. I think in general, looking at the first VCA highlighting: The thing we notice most is how unlikely it is scum was forced to have a hand in the slam wagon. Even if 3 of the 5 votes on slam are scum, they could ave dispersed elsewhere and still avoided a no-lynch during D1. During D2, you had several close wagons and almost certainly then, by definition, some kind of scum meddling in the wagon outcome. Chosing to disperse rather than consolidate IT hink explains the Onegu vote quite nicely. If GB is really town, scum wouldn’t care at all— they’d all be voting like Onegu (though GB’s vote makes no sense regardless of his alignment) and raynpelikoneet. Actually, rayn’s vote raises my suspicion of him here, just because looking at how close things got, I Can’t help but think rayn on GB (given that he was hard TRing yaamto) could have made the difference! So, in summary GB’s vote on rayn doesn’t mean anything. I think Rayn and Onegu both deserve more scrutiny (Though Onegu is the only guy I’m scumreading out of the two of them) for what went down at the end of D2. Lastly, VCA does not RULE OUT a GB/H1/1G team— though of course I will not rule in teams as groups. You don’t draw associative tells between unflipped players. Yeah that's what I said about rayn And Onegu's vote doesn't make sense on either day (D1: on his highest townread, D2: wasted). | ||
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Let's just have wagons on Onegu and GB for today? I think there should be at least one scum among them and this way scum have to make some hard choices. | ||
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On October 28 2015 08:05 gumshoe wrote: screw listening to marv, listen to me XD unless its about Yamato / : Haha well, it looks like everything would have gone for the better if I had just assumed marv and rayn as non-lynchable for D1-D2. They're likely NK targets anyway if town so not a lot of reason to lynch them early on. That's what I usually did before, but I started to maybe become unnecessarily wary of them due to some recent games... Well, should prolly just go back to ignoring them early on.. | ||
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On October 28 2015 08:08 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah so like there's two theories here. Theory 1. The H1 1G GB wagon train was running strong. Scum looks at this and is like "this a great train. Let's let it run" and shoot rayn. Probably rayn rather than someone else who's not a leader cause a silent rayn is a significantly more pleasant rayn. Theory 2. The H1 1G GB wagon train is running strong, and cannot be stopped no matter what. Scum figure their only chance is to confuse us by acting like they like the train and shooting someone irrelevant. They shoot rayn since, obviously, a silent rayn is an infinitely more pleasant rayn. I think our best strategy is to assume that Theory 2 is correct and push forward with lynches on those guys today. I feel confident in my reads, and my VCA supports that as a possibility, especially 1Gu. If it turns out we're wrong on this, we can revisit things, since we have one more mislynch of breathing room. I don't think the right response here is to undo all our scumreads. LOL great reasoning Anyways, I agree, we should probably lynch Onegu today... Or perhaps GB/hopeless, but I think hopeless could be town and maybe GB as well... Well, I won't be sad if either of them disappears. | ||
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On October 28 2015 13:46 ritoky wrote: i personally think there's at least 1 between gb and hopeless. as i said before if gb is mafia there is GUARANTEED 1 between gumdrop, vivax, and xata. I don't think it's "guaranteed", but yeah, it would make some sense to lynch GB information-wise... Especially compared to hopeless.. Honestly I'm fine with any of the trio dying today. My vote is just on Onegu because I have the hardest time believing he's town. | ||
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On October 28 2015 14:55 gumshoe wrote: ##unvote ##vote Gb sorry gb ) : I dont have a good way to clear you anymore, it's on you, >.> | ||
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On October 28 2015 18:10 Vivax wrote: who are the mediocre players u speak of gb? I guess referring to me? Can't disagree my D1 wasn't particularly productive going against marv and rayn like that... But from now on, I'll just go along with my most town reads because I can't really be certain I have a clue what's going on in this game... | ||
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On October 28 2015 14:25 Chromatically wrote: Just checked, gumshoe is definitely town because I think he posts differently as mafia than he does here and as town. It seems like his tone is much more serious as mafia, and definitely not as interested in finding mafia. Plus his mafia games have 2, 2, 2, and 4 page filters total (idk how convincing filter length argument is but it's easy and feels good). I guess it could just be a coincidence that lurker gumshoe showed up for his mafia games, but I don't think that gumshoe would be able to play like this as mafia. Town game (real similar to here): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/444078-cultured-mini-mafia?user=gumshoe http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?user=gumshoe Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/448443-you-only-shoot-once-mafia?user=gumshoe http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?user=gumshoe http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445063-handslaps-and-fisticuff-a-pyp-mini?user=gumshoe http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441596-gsl-open-mini-mafia-iv?user=gumshoe Posts like this make it harder to tinfoil that Chromatically is scum... | ||
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On October 28 2015 15:24 GlowingBear wrote: Let me be sincere here: I'm completely demotivated to play. Partly because I've burned out of playing mafia, partly because I can't stand coming to a promising game, liking playing it, but then facing medium tier players overvaluating themselves and promoting shitfests, and players that signs in to simply not play the game. It's like playing chess with a wall. I'm not certain on anyone but Vivax. Vivax has displayed some townie posts, I must agree, but his overall gameplay seems scummy to me. He doesn't feel engaged to win. He hasn't done anything memorable. The rest I can call scummy for whatever reasons. At this point I want to lynch everybody and be the last man standing. No, I won't make a case on Vivax. I've spent 3-4 hours re reading day one, talked about Vivax, said we should keep slam and yamato to read later, and that we should go against Onegu and hopeless, just to be called mafia right after. It's boring. Then it's day3, and people are considering a team of me/Onegu/hopeless ROFLMAO. I won't waste my time. I will be hanging here and give some opinions on whatever I find relevant and vote people accordingly to how I feel comfortable. For the record, I kind of thought this post could be coming from town? Again the same feeling as at D1 end. But since it seems that you like to bus, GB, I'm not really dye how GB/Onegu/hopeless could be ruled out. Even if I think you and hopeless have potential to be town. But ritoky's paranoia and Chromatically's continued balanced effort makes me want to townread them more today too.. | ||
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On October 28 2015 21:55 Chromatically wrote: What? It doesn't matter what I say, I wasn't convinced yamato mafia would clear you. The point is that Xatalos and gumshoe clearly thought it would. Agreed... | ||
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Also dont worry people, I will still figure this game out in lylo, I am the best lylo player ever as you all should know by now. | ||
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On October 24 2015 04:32 Onegu wrote: No not really but def dont think he is the lynch today. I wouldnt lynch him today for sure I am that comfortable. On October 24 2015 04:59 Onegu wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: raynpelikoneet Couldn't help but laugh | ||
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On October 25 2015 09:41 Onegu wrote: Nope Rayn hasnt left yet. He is still town. Xata is making zero sense here. ##Vote: Xata Maybe I'm biased but this post really felt weird... There wasn't really either anything before this or any follow-up.. | ||
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On October 26 2015 02:19 Onegu wrote: Your push on Marv. Your posts with rayn. They make no sense. Football There was this... But.... I guess I was ultimately wrong on rayn there, but still... Am I really sure scum just because my read is disagreeable? | ||
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On October 23 2015 23:34 GlowingBear wrote: Could you explain the scum read on me other than my read on Vivax? Also, how come hopeless and onegu looks better than chrom? Btw ritoky, where did marv townread Onegu? I think he was in marv's lynchable group here? | ||
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On October 25 2015 17:32 GlowingBear wrote: I don't know, I haven't read the case since I'm town, so that automatically makes his case completely wrong Eh... These responses aren't really good though... | ||
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Onegu is still probably scum though. Even more so since his senseless push for me/hopeless today (when actually marv/rayn townread hopeless and I kind of agree to an extent). | ||
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gumshoe - 10 BH - 9 Vivax - 8 Chromatically - 7 ritoky - 5 hopeless - 4 GlowingBear - 3 Onegu - 1 | ||
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On October 26 2015 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyways: "O, woe is me, T'have seen what I have seen, see what I see!" + Show Spoiler + On October 24 2015 04:37 ritoky wrote: reading the thread...wondering what happened to BH the 2nd half of this phase. On October 23 2015 07:26 ritoky wrote: i think i am content ignoring everything you say in every game going forward; it doesn't have much value or good reason in it anywayz. I think if i have this convo with someone they think i am mafia, at least they should imo. On October 24 2015 05:00 ritoky wrote: bh being very sexy to me again right now. probably gonna sheep him. On October 24 2015 05:18 ritoky wrote: ##vote: alakaslam cuz BH said so. here in between he votes for Onegu (who is btw never gonna get lynched on D1). On October 24 2015 10:02 ritoky wrote: xata is right about this. slam was the least chupazi he has been in recent games. he was in fact significantly more serious than normal resulting in an around a 50% serious post rate which is astounding for him. as desperate as i am to try and ignore everything rayn posts, when he posts for 3 straight pages....anywayz his reaction is overblown and worthless. + Show Spoiler + at least my meta read on slam is still perfect On October 26 2015 18:00 ritoky wrote: honestly i am tired and whiny and i just wish this game were easier. i have 1 guy in xata who is either playing 5 steps ahead or in a tunnel potentially filled of rage. i have 1 guy in yamato who is constantly handing out empty promises. i have 1 guy in hopeless who might have died irl. i have 1 guy in rayn who ragequit lyfe, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. i have 1 guy in GB who has never once been so disenfranchised with a mafia game. i have 1 guy in onegu who has had the tonal shift of the ages. like why can't this be easier right now? seriously. all i want are town reads that are trying to find mafia. not all of those people can be mafia....and that isn't even considering if there's a sneakster mafia. i am just tired and want town reads. is this too much to ask for? boohoo... cries.... in... vain... I'm not really sure if I get how this makes ritoky scum? Could someone enlighten me? | ||
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Hm? | ||
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On October 29 2015 01:44 GlowingBear wrote: What am I supposed to say, Xatalos? If people compare my gameplay in this game with other games I've played and reach the conclusion I'm mafia, the meta is wrong because I'm town. There's nothing else to be said here Well... I guess as town it should be easier demolish cases since they're wrong... Right? | ||
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On October 29 2015 01:51 GlowingBear wrote: I think you have two mafias in your top townies Vivax and gumshoe...? Really? Well, we still have a whole day to decide the lynch.. | ||
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But there are some problems with that team. For example, ritoky eagerly jumped on Onegu D1, and again voted for GB D2. GB has also pushed Onegu lately. Could be bussing I guess, but especially ritoky is a bit hard to explain. | ||
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Can't say I'm really sad if we solve him today. Might even vote for him closer to deadline if you think GB is a much better option than Onegu, Chromatically. | ||
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I doubt there's much benefit to clearly consolidating? There's potential to more information if the situation is uncertain (hard choices for scum). | ||
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hopeless could be town (or scum), but looks like he's just being lazy and maybe modkilled? I don't think he's the priority in this group. | ||
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And yeah, it's odd to ignore rayn's top scumread while otherwise relying on his reads to that extent... | ||
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On October 30 2015 01:32 Onegu wrote: The main reason is because I am scum reading you two more. GB needs looked at also, but I feel multiple people scum read GB maybe he shoots rayn, but only rayn and myself were scum reading you. Rayn had the clout that I dont to actually lynch you. I really doubt rayn could have ever gotten me lynched... If the kill was motivated by his reads, I'd imagine it's because there's scum within ritoky/GB/hopeless (mostly GB/ritoky since the hopeless suspicion was just some PoE one-liner at the very end). If I was in the scumteam, I'd just have left him to be mislynched as he was already almost lynched during D1 and D2. | ||
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Also what did you think about rayn's case on ritoky? There's this on D1... On October 23 2015 07:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah as i said that was yesterday. I clearly pointed out (before going to bed) that i dislike Xatalos' & ritoky's reads on BH which i had missed earlier as i was tired. My townread on ritoky before was not based on that at all. I jsut didn't pay attention to his posts because i didn't think he was saying anything interesting. It's like how i treat players who don't say anything interesting (unless something changes)... in every game. There is absolutely nothing contradicting there, i re-evaluated his posting after i had slept and dug up further and came to conclusion he is mafia, because: 1) His read on BH is bad. 2) His reasoning for his read doesn't even make any sense.for example; he says there is 80% chance BH does this rng thing as town, so there is actually then 20% chance of BH doing that as mafia - by default. When people tell his that "BH could totally do that as mafia" it doesn't affect his read at all. In fact he just pushes the townread further with more illogical arguments, like trying to argue random lynching is as effective as not random lynching, which is a straight out lie, and doesn't even have anything to do with BH's alignment. So yeah, there is that. That's basically the only thing he has done in this game in addition to now bitching at me. Then this later... Which I didn't quite follow... On October 26 2015 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyways: "O, woe is me, T'have seen what I have seen, see what I see!" + Show Spoiler + On October 24 2015 04:37 ritoky wrote: reading the thread...wondering what happened to BH the 2nd half of this phase. On October 23 2015 07:26 ritoky wrote: i think i am content ignoring everything you say in every game going forward; it doesn't have much value or good reason in it anywayz. I think if i have this convo with someone they think i am mafia, at least they should imo. On October 24 2015 05:00 ritoky wrote: bh being very sexy to me again right now. probably gonna sheep him. On October 24 2015 05:18 ritoky wrote: ##vote: alakaslam cuz BH said so. here in between he votes for Onegu (who is btw never gonna get lynched on D1). On October 24 2015 10:02 ritoky wrote: xata is right about this. slam was the least chupazi he has been in recent games. he was in fact significantly more serious than normal resulting in an around a 50% serious post rate which is astounding for him. as desperate as i am to try and ignore everything rayn posts, when he posts for 3 straight pages....anywayz his reaction is overblown and worthless. + Show Spoiler + at least my meta read on slam is still perfect On October 26 2015 18:00 ritoky wrote: honestly i am tired and whiny and i just wish this game were easier. i have 1 guy in xata who is either playing 5 steps ahead or in a tunnel potentially filled of rage. i have 1 guy in yamato who is constantly handing out empty promises. i have 1 guy in hopeless who might have died irl. i have 1 guy in rayn who ragequit lyfe, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. i have 1 guy in GB who has never once been so disenfranchised with a mafia game. i have 1 guy in onegu who has had the tonal shift of the ages. like why can't this be easier right now? seriously. all i want are town reads that are trying to find mafia. not all of those people can be mafia....and that isn't even considering if there's a sneakster mafia. i am just tired and want town reads. is this too much to ask for? boohoo... cries.... in... vain... | ||
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On October 30 2015 05:13 gumshoe wrote: rayn point 1: Reading bh's rng as town is bad: this is a null thing, we feel certain ways about things and use logic to justify those feels, ritoky felt good about bh coming into thread with his rng, and conveyed that to the rest of us, that doesnt make him scum, its just an offense to rayns sensibilities. Also with what we know of Bh now, it was from wrong to town read / : verdict-null point 2 Rayn has an angry convo with ritoky, ritoky still town reads rayn, rayn thinks he should be scum read by someone if they have that sort of convo, again, sensibilities, I town read people I argue with aaaaaall the time verdict-silly rayn point 3 The onegu switch- onegu is never lynched day 1, bad ritoky bh was the first to vote on onegu, someone else was there as well, there was plenty of reason to think onegu might get shenanynied and given what we know now of onegu ritoky trying to lynch him is far from something to be held against him. I almost voted switched to ritoky myself just to avoid the stupid slam lynch. verdict- actually pretty townie. Maybe ritoky is scum this game, but rayns silly arguments from the grave definitely dont make a good case for it / : Yeah I didn't really get the latter case either... The first one might have some merit though. At the time I disagreed with rayn, but maybe there's something to it after all... The way how ritoky was so extremely sure that BH was town, even though he said there was like at least a 20% chance that he could have done the RNG thing as scum. In any case, this is surely a topic for another day. | ||
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On October 30 2015 05:20 gumshoe wrote: and here I was thinking rayn was dead, yet clearly he lives on, hurah -_- Tbh rayn was only pushing me "out of spite" towards the end I doubt ritoky has any anger towards me. | ||
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On October 30 2015 05:19 gumshoe wrote: you should care, if gb flips town for some dumb reason, then you me or xata die, well have 3 scum plus ritoky vs 3 town and onegu might not get lynched till lylo or something equally disturbing. Hm... Magic words? ##Call BH to shenanigans on Onegu | ||
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On October 30 2015 06:20 ritoky wrote: with GB? at least 1 of xata/gumdrop/vivax...maybe 2 of them? dunno. not me, can't be chroma, wouldn't be onegu/hopeless....can't really be BH cuz tried to shennanie GB. so yeah if GB then 2 of gumdrop/xata/vivax. That team is pretty ridiculous :D | ||
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I guess he's either waiting for the last moments, saving his scumbuddy GB... or town hell-bent on losing the game | ||
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Otherwise no sense for scum to let GB die like this, I think | ||
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On October 30 2015 06:32 GlowingBear wrote: PLEASE READ ~ If ONEGU is MAFIA Then gumshoe is 100% mafia. 1) Gumshoe started strong townreading me when I was under heavy suspicions. He took every piece of evidence he could find to call me town. Then, today, he decided to vote me. His excuse was "I had to go" because all of his townies were suspecting me and he couldn't waste another day of discussion. The problem here is: he was also scumreading Onegu way before and his townreads were putting ME and ONEGU as obvious scum partners. If he thought I was town before, wouldn't it be better if he asked his townreads to vote me since, well, THEY WERE ALL SCUMREADING ONEGU AND ONEGU WAS ALREADY A COUNTER WAGON? This makes no sense under a town perspective. If I have someone I'm at least not sure is town or mafia and if I have someone that I am scumreading since way before, who would I vote? Obviously the scum read. The excuse that his townreads were scumreading me and that they couldn't waste more discussion on me is bullshit because his townreads were also scumreading Onegu and whoever survives from the team they've made will also have to be discussed on later days. It simply doesn't make sense. 2) When I've confronted gumshoe, he decided to respond it with an UNVOTE. WITH. AN. UNVOTE. Let me tell you again. His townreads had me and onegu as mafia. He decided to vote me who he thought was town. When I confront him, he gets convinced I shouldn't be voted. But instead of going against Onegu, he UNVOTES without voting HIS OWN SCUMREAD which is SHARED WITH HIS TOWNREADS. WHY? 3) Then he decides to vote me because he didn't like my tone. This guy is simply saying that after ALL THE EVIDENCE, after ALL THE POSTS HE QUOTED FROM ME to call me town, he thinks I am mafia out of a TONE READ. Again, why not voting Onegu? 4) When I reach majority with 5 votes, he finally decided to vote Onegu. In other words, he only votes his scumread when his former townread is dying anyways. There is no way gumshoe isn't mafia with Onegu. But in the case he is... ~ If ONEGU is TOWN Then gumshoe is 100% town because there is no way he does all these scummy things with both wagons being town. Well if gumshoe ends up being scum, he really deserves a nomination for best plays of 2015 and the win :D | ||
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On October 30 2015 06:50 Vivax wrote: Xata get your vote on GB PLEASE Hm? | ||
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On October 30 2015 06:53 Onegu wrote: Im sick. I am town. I came back 10 min before lynch. Anyway lynch Xata and hopeless after me. ......And that's supposed to convince me? just lol | ||
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On October 30 2015 06:55 Onegu wrote: Ritoky really think about this. I never kill rayn in 100000000 years as scum here. Its not wifom, its common sense. That post is the definition of WIFOM... | ||
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On October 30 2015 06:56 Blazinghand wrote: What makes GB worse? what makes him worse, Chrom? He's just posting more, so he looks scummier, they're both scum. It's fine. One's just a little more active you're not even playing the game, I doubt you directed your team's kill +1 | ||
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On October 30 2015 06:56 Chromatically wrote: ritoky abandoned us in our time of need, he will have to bear the shame of a thousand years if this goes badly He's the hero this town deserves, but not the one it needs right now. | ||
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On October 30 2015 06:59 GlowingBear wrote: In case I die If you guys lynch Onegu tomorrow and he flips mafia: scum team is Onegu/gumshoe/BH Gumshoe you guys know why. BH because he was always bringing reasons to call me town but he was wishy washy throghout the game. Then he decided I am mafia with Onegu. When I bring the case on gumshoe, he does everything to dismiss it when the association clearly points out to gumshoe being mafia with Onegu. Here is the proof BH has been dismissing my case without even reading it: + Show Spoiler + On October 30 2015 06:11 Blazinghand wrote: not really, I don't feel like lynching him (and there's no way it's happening today). Furthemore, you're probably scum. I've mostly been interested in getting 1gu lynched but I'll take a look at it overnight and make thoughts if you really care. That's a promise. I can't even get how he'd be scum and do all this good work, but maybe your case explains that. It's certainly no loss to me to do some extra reading, I think we got this wrapped up like a chicken burrito On October 30 2015 06:39 Blazinghand wrote: Don't pay attention to this but if 1G flips scum: GB and 1G are scum and Gummie is town, GB trying to cast suspicion on Gummie for some reaosn Of course this is all unflipped association that should not be paid attention to On October 30 2015 06:43 Blazinghand wrote: yeah yeah chill out bro we're lynching 1G today anyways. Almost certainly he's gonna flip scum, and then you're gonna make some kind of asslike push on Gumshoe in an attempt to "look townie", then we lynch you and H1 and win the game PROMISE ME YOU WILL READ MY POSTS I THINK ABOUT IT IF YOU'RE TOWN That doesn't even make sense, they both just worked hard to save your ass. | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:05 gumshoe wrote: The only reason hopeless votes gb there is to save onegu, why is gb not scum as well? Because then hopeless just votes onegu and looks waaay less fishy. so yeah, third scum is still out there boys. I'm not sure if that's a good enough reason to clear GB since it was uncertain which one of them was getting lynched though.. | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:07 GlowingBear wrote: I want EVERY player to comment on these posts. This may be hammering the team. I could be wrong on BH though and be OMGUSing right now. But I find hard to believe he would try to dismiss my "please read" so hard + I find hard to believe he would believe that day3 wagons were both mafia with no other scum trying to form a wagon on a townie. Could you explain how scum gumshoe does the work to save you in the end? If he actually was scum, he would see that you're right, and you'd be a huge danger tomorrow. Instead, he chooses to bus scum Onegu???!!! | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:09 gumshoe wrote: just a pet theory : D I wont lie, I dont mind lynching him even though I am reasonably confident hes town, as I dont want to bother swaying literally everyone here why the pants on head townie is a townie, and I SUPER fucking dont want be there at lylo with gb, but yeah, check out mah hopeless arguments and come to your own conclusions. (actually hilarious, gb me and vivax at lylo, and gb has to pick between his two biggest scum reads to win the game.) LOL | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:11 ritoky wrote: also i would like to take this moment to laugh at rayn, yamato and marv for both being wrong on onegu and convincing me wrongly to TR him. har har. Yes, let's laugh together :D By the way, ritoky is a bit more likely town now since he jumped recklessly on Onegu D1. Could still be potentially a risky bet for credit, but doubt it really... | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:13 GlowingBear wrote: Onegu could hammer if it wasn't for ritoky???? Bussing Onegu delivers town cred (like the one you're giving gumshoe now)? Bussing Onegu is okay because he was already looking bad and he would die at some point anyway?? I will counter-question you: Why would you vote on A TOWN READ instead of a SCUM READ? Simply as this. Hm... Well, honestly, gumshoe had already said repeatedly that you were more of a null and unreliable regardless - forced lynch, kind of. I also entertained your lynch many times even though I thought you were more likely town than Onegu. But I'm glad he flipped scum now and we extended our playtime. Harder for scum to endure the extended pressure. | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote: MY GOD XATALOS. MY GOD. Did you read what I've wrote? I mean, at all? Didn't really bother reading it yet when gumshoe is so obviously town this game... | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:24 gumshoe wrote: I mean, I could write up a whole case, but dis should be enough. Basically hands in the cookie jar / : Lol :D Indeed I did think for a bit that if GB is town, then that's pretty bad... But that's only if GB is town. | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:46 Blazinghand wrote: ritoky jumping ship from his traditional GB read when he could have stayed on it means he's not scum unless GB is. True... If GB is town, ritoky is very likely town, because it would have been so easy to just stay on GB. Hard to believe that ritoky would abandon that chance to bring the game to LYLO. (still not 100% since this would give him a great lot of credibility, but very likely town anyway) | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:48 Blazinghand wrote: Right, but then we're going into 5-3 MYLO. Like, remember that at the time I was literally shenannying onto GB from yamato. There was a shenanny happening. Tons of people said "I think GB is scum, but I'm afraid yamato won't get modkilled. It's fine if he dies though." I think scum would have hammered. Think about what the thread was like in those moments-- don't just recall teh vote pattern, but the way things were happening and what was going on in-thread. One more vote on Bh's shenanny, that variosu people supported, wouldn't make you suspicions at all. I think scum would have done it. I guess it's possible... But still not certain. The main benefit would be forcing town's hand by refusing them another "free" mislynch, I guess.... And limiting the amount of time the game would continue and information would accumulate. | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:51 Blazinghand wrote: Eh, maybe I'm misreading the situation but it looks to me like, if GB really IS town, there's a free mislynch there for scum to pick up at no cost. I mean... If town GB was mislynched immediately, it would bring the game straight into MYLO. Town would no longer have the leisure to screw around, every day would have to be a scum lynch. Which is a lot harder I guess. | ||
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On October 30 2015 07:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ah, good point. We have the possibility, for example, that scum hopeless is just playing this like SUPER duper slow and wants to lurk all game and not get lynched. Many people are still opposed to an H1 lynch, even now. Also he may not have even been around. I don't think that guy is even reading the thread tbh Yeah. I at least know that if I was scum in that situation, I probably wouldn't vote for town GB. So that's not really a reason to clear me... But perhaps it could be for others? Hard to say. | ||
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I guess it's a possible tinfoil theory that he banked on ritoky not switching and you getting lynched because he unvoted and revoted (to give GB the edge with earlier 4 votes)... But it's really quite tinfoily. I also don't think he would have gone to the effort of convincing people not to double lynch you on D2, or overall defend you so much, if you were town and he was scum. It would simply have been so easy to defend you slightly less, or not to convince people to spare you on D2 deadline, and you would be dead just like that... Giving him great credibility after defending you so much, and getting easily rid of one townie he would have difficulties lynching comfortably. But he did everything he could so that you were ultimately saved D2. On D3 he hesitated (understandably, because his previous strongest read was wrong) but still ended up saving you again. I just don't think there's much scum motivation to go to such great efforts to save you on D2, then waffle on you D3. Well, I guess you could say that the difference could be Onegu's life on the line.... But truly, there was no saving Onegu anyway (he'd just go next after you) so why not just proceed like usual? What's more, I had pretty much the same thoughts as gumshoe at the last hours. I considered voting for you many times. I just didn't end up ultimately doing so.... But he did, briefly. In any case, gumshoe has been pretty much contributing the largest amount of actually helpful posts in the game.... And you can see that he's really constantly trying to figure the game out. If he's scum, he deserves to win IMO. We can't waste our last remaining mislynch on him. | ||
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1) Lynch hopeless 2) If he flips scum, lynch Vivax/GB 3) If he flips town, lynch.... what?? :D | ||
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lynch hopeless(); if (hopeless == scum) { | ||
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lynch hopeless(); if (hopeless == scum) { lynch GlowingBear AND Vivax; else { lynch GlowingBear AND ritoky; } That should end the game, most likely? | ||
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LOL | ||
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But it's not like it matters greatly. | ||
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*to save Onegu | ||
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Or possibly BH, but who knows?My last will would be for everyone to sheep BH/gumshoe as much as they can. They seem to know what they're doing here and both are 99% likely town IMO. | ||
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Yeah, that's a bit odd. Would make sense if GB is scum with either hopeless or Vivax though. | ||
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On October 30 2015 22:23 Chromatically wrote: Yeah, exactly because he needs two mislynches to win, so he can't survive if we lynch into {GB/Hopeless/Vivax} in that world. He has to convince people on gumshoe or someone else. Yeah... Well, will be interesting how the LYLO plays out. I'm quite sure the scumteam is in that new trio, but you can never be 100% certain. | ||
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Onegu Profile Blog PM Joined May 2010 United States6753 Posts October 23 2015 19:40 EET #1092 On October 24 2015 01:55 gumshoe wrote: Can we just collectively agree to pussy out as town and vote for the most objectively useless player? Onegu, 2015 Nope sorry my friend better luck next time!!!! | ||
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On October 30 2015 23:09 Vivax wrote: What scumsidimg exactly? I was at best scumsiding if gb is town and even then im not the only dude who was votinng gb. im on phone so ill be more extensive later. i think that if im right on gumshoe ill find more exples of tmi. Well assuming GB is scum and you're town, you're pretty heavily scumsiding by pushing gumshoe recently... | ||
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On October 31 2015 01:47 Chromatically wrote: I'm worried that somehow people won't lynch GB if we don't do it soon. Like LYLO with gumshoe, Vivax, and GB sounds like an absolute nightmare right now. ROFLMAO | ||
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Xatalos is killed hopeless is lynched Blazinghand is killed GlowingBear is lynched Chromatically is killed LYLO would be.... ritoky/Vivax/gumshoe? Not too bad actually, assuming that Vivax is actually scum out of these three. | ||
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On October 31 2015 02:00 Chromatically wrote: If you disagree with this, you are saying that mafia WILLINGLY chose to kill their partner over GB, when they were already being read as town by everyone in the thread (BH, gumshoe, ritoky, Xatalos all were top towns). There was no reason to bus for town cred when they could have switched to put us in LYLO. Yeah I think it's kind of unlikely for any of these players to be scum - IF GB is town, at least. Though I think you're just giving Vivax ammunition for his scumread by hypothesizing something based on GB's town flip while scumreading him (not saying it's scummy, just that he'll probably bring it up soon enough lol) | ||
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Basically scum can only be catched when they make mistakes, and town can only be mislynched when they make mistakes. If everyone plays perfectly, it would just be the same as RNG lynching every day. I guess it's an achievement in itself to establish your innocence, even if your reads are unreliable. | ||
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On October 31 2015 03:24 GlowingBear wrote: That actually makes me believe you're town. You wouldn't go that far. ... would you? ARE YOU CROSSING YOUR FINGERS NOW? >.> | ||
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On October 31 2015 04:17 gumshoe wrote: Thats not fair ) : the vote was 5 4, 1 change woulda made the dif. Also lets say vivax is scum, this was him just before the finish. he was pushing last sec to get xata or someone else to change, basically begging. I could see this going on between scum in qt. LOL | ||
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Anyways, let's see if I still live soon... | ||
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GG | ||
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Well played | ||
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