On February 26 2015 06:56 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Node is town cause of something I said earlier, forget what it was. I'm generally OK with him. Yeah OK I checked your filter for you. Since apparently that is too hard. This is all I can find Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 14:45 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 25 2015 13:41 Snarfs wrote:This is awkward, but I think Node is actually mafia. Have a look at a few of his posts. FIRST: His waffling about Damdred. "Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. : In the following post, he completely misrepresents Tronak, then says he just has a null read on him but if he doesn't do anything he's scum. "Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) Node's summary of Tronak's list is the following: "Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." Here's what Tronak actually says: myself, yamato, and artanis feel scummy I believe Node is purposely trying to shed Tronak in a poor light so that he can justify a lynch on him should the sentiment sway that way. THIRD:This is the post that turned me back around after my attempt at looking at his previous games. He's talking about me, and keep in mind I know I'm town, but he shouldn't. If Node was town, how does he go from "this guy is my number 1 mafia read" to "this guy's actions could completely be explained by mafia, but if I see more of it I might consider him town"? His actual quote: "Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 11:16 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 10:57 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 17:37 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2015 09:25 Snarfs wrote:
Okay, I see some other games with some of these other guys as well. And Tronak said already that it's his/her first mafia game ever so it looks like I'm covered in this regard, no need to continue down the rabbit hole.
Is this the point where someone proposes an RNG lynch? This was really early in the game, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd like to point out that this is actually really scummy. Beyond an RNG lynch being an awful idea for reasons already stated, there's also bit of a deflection here -- Snarfs isn't going to propose a lynch, "someone" is. Nevermind that he's the first one to actually bring it up. Snarfs also just posted a wall of text without actually saying much of anything. Yeah, there are some reads in there, but considering there are a couple of people that he'd lynch "pretty happily", there's nothing concrete. Just some feels without conclusions and a distinct lack of an actual case or vote. Based on that, I'm going to park at ##Vote: Snarfs for now. On February 25 2015 04:51 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 04:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. RNG was so pure. This post bleeds red to me Something about the sequence here reads "let me make several arguments for why you're mafia and then say that I don't suspect you but leave the door open for doing so later" I don't believe that someone as active as Damdred early on that attracts as much attention as he has is likely to be scum. I feel that we're much better off early on putting pressure on people that are hesitant to post. Yes, it's possible to post a lot and be scum, but town benefits a lot more at this point from forcing those that aren't posting to respond -- Damdred's already given us plenty to work with as time passes. However, I also think he could also be doing a much better job of actually hunting scum. (For one thing, when the threads get as long as they do as quickly as they do in this forum, you'd better believe quotes are an important tool if you want people to listen to you. Don't depend on others to draw the conclusions you have.)
Which brings me to Snarfs: He's content to pop up and comment on what's going on, but constantly asking people what they think of other people isn't actually much of a contribution. What does he actually think about anybody other than me? His big post seems substantial, but what's backing it up? Again, he says he'd be "pretty happy" to lynch either The Shining or sicklucker, but flash forward a day and there's still nothing else on those two. Like, it costs nothing to throw your vote around. Put your money where your mouth is. On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. On February 25 2015 07:41 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 07:30 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia."
Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) ok, do it once, I can give a pass with a decent-sounding answer do it TWICE? no way who do you actually scumread if all of your would-be cases turn into "I don't actually read him mafia yet"?
And if you'd be willing to call Tronak scum based on what we've seen so far, be my guest. I'm not. My hope is that he'll see the pressure and step up to the plate, but if he doesn't, well, my vote can certainly be changed.
Explain please Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me. None of this makes sense to me from a town perspective. My only explanation is that he's mafia. ##Vote: Node Meh. I know I'd never say anything as terrible as 'I don't think you're scum yet' as scum.Trying to work up the motivation to re-read. I probably should too since I won't be around for deadline. Which is essentially you're so scummy you can't be scum. Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 26 2015 03:15 yamato77 wrote:
I like damdred's posts about Snarfs. Dude has been seriously fishy this whole game.
For one, I'm pretty sure Node is town. For two, the way he's sort of just landed on Kels makes me highly suspicious. If someone has to bait you into voting them, it looks bad.
Kelsier looks a lot better now than when I initially voted him. Snarfs looks worse. Artanis looks better, even if he's ununnecessarily fixated on me. Tormented is at least trying, to an extent.
Right now I kinda want to lynch Snarfs. Ever since his first big post, I've had him down as solidly scummy but I've sat on it and waited. He never really got better.
##Vote: Snarfs I might be cool with this. At the very least I like the post. Who else is scummy yamato? A bunch of your reads are lining up with mine atm Which is just a sheep post of a town read. Again since Node has posted sweet fuck all why do you think he is town?
Come on Wave, answer the question.
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+ Show Spoiler [A weak tunnel] +On February 24 2015 19:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Good morning. Yamato is right on Tormented I think but his case is shit. Here's a good case. _Tormented_He starts out with a lot of posts not giving out any reads, so I ask him if he has any reads yet. He gives a very paranoid answer, something pretty typical for newbie town. Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:03 _Tormented_ wrote:
@Artanis, I am still working out people's play styles. For instance, I could say you try very hard to come off as town and increase activity in order to draw suspicion away from yourself or that could just be the way you are normally. Still forming my opinions honestly. He calls me possibly town, but maybe tryhard mafia. No real reasoning other than just pure paranoia. Initial town lean, but I wanted some more info, so I asked him if he couldn't give any reads anyhow. Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On February 24 2015 11:03 _Tormented_ wrote:
@Artanis, I am still working out people's play styles. For instance, I could say you try very hard to come off as town and increase activity in order to draw suspicion away from yourself or that could just be the way you are normally. Still forming my opinions honestly. Town and mafia explanations are possible for almost all actions. The question is: Which is more likely? Paranoia is fine and all but in the end you're going to have to make commitments with incomplete information. You don't have to give me 100% reads, just tell me where your head is now. What I was expecting here were a bunch of weak town reads, maybe a mafia lean here or there but nothing strong. Instead, this is what I get: Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:13 _Tormented_ wrote:
lol fine, here ya go before I have to leave work. Take it for what you will.
Player List
1) Probulous (filter) - town
2) Artanis[Xp] (filter) - town or overly aggressive mafia
3) Half the Sky (filter) - town
4) sicklucker (filter) - town
5) Tronak (filter) - no clue
6) Yamato77 (filter) - mafia
7) _Tormented_ (filter) - town
8) Node (filter) - no clue
9) The Shining (filter) - no clue
10) Eden1892 (filter) - either mafia or he is just being obtuse for no reason
11) WaveofShadow (filter) - no clue
12) Damdred (filter) - town
13) snarfs (filter) - no clue Now what's interesting about this is that the only one he's actively paranoid of that has posted is the two people he's already commented on. The rest, apparently he's pretty happy calling town or mafia. It's this change in mindset that doesn't make any sense, especially taken into consideration he wasn't willing to commit on a read on me and Eden. For him to be town, his thought process would have to be: "I don't know anyone's playstyle so I don't trust anyone, except these 5 people I townread without an explanation whilst still leaving a question mark on the two people I already talked about." A mafia thought process is much simpler. First, when questioned on his reads, he stalls for time by saying he doesn't know people's styles yet. Then, when pressured to still give reads he tries to keep his story straight by being paranoid on the two people he's already commented on, but forgets to keep that same paranoia for the rest of the field. I feel his paranoia is feigned and I want to lynch him. ##Vote _Tormented_ On February 25 2015 03:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 00:26 _Tormented_ wrote:
Artanis, you asked for a read and I have a quick list on what I was currently feeling. I want about to sit there and give percentages on every person while I was late leaving from work. I know I am town, therefore I obviously have serious questionmarks about you and yamato. My point is that you committed to reads on everyone but me and Eden. What discerns your paranoia on me and Eden from the rest of your list? What makes us more "null" and why did you choose that wording rather than no clue which you used for others? On February 25 2015 03:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I get back and suddenly everyone goes afk again.
Damdred, you were here when I posted. What are your thoughts on the case? On February 25 2015 04:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
I displayed how his thought process is inconsistent. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective, newbie or not doesn't come into it. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 04:40 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
THE WHY WERE YOU SO OCNFIDENT OF HIS SCUMMINESS TO BEGIN WITH Am I the only one seeing this? Somebody please let me know. Comment on my case and I may let you know. On February 25 2015 07:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 04:49 Damdred wrote:On February 25 2015 04:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
I displayed how his thought process is inconsistent. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective, newbie or not doesn't come into it. On February 25 2015 04:40 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
THE WHY WERE YOU SO OCNFIDENT OF HIS SCUMMINESS TO BEGIN WITH Am I the only one seeing this? Somebody please let me know. Comment on my case and I may let you know. I'm not saying your wrong I'm just saying that where he comes from its not that uncommon a thing to do and besides that pace is different and he's never been asked to hive reads on day one. So I'm a little hesitant That's all fine and dandy, but that doesn't explain his sudden change from paranoia to giving concrete reads on everyone except the people he claimed to be paranoid of despite being paranoid of everyone just a few moments ago. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 05:29 Snarfs wrote:
Artanis, I think you're suspicious. That's why I'm asking other people their opinion on you. I think you said a lot of nothing yesterday before leaving and that your case on Tormented is not adding more than a single line could, but it conveniently fills lots of space nicely. What nothing did I say beyond the initial game trolling and how would you explain my point on Tormented in a single line? I felt it needed a narrative to drive the point home. Your meta towncase on Node also feels arbitrary. You picked out an aspect that Node used in a town game and didn't use in his mafia game and presumed that it's alignment indicative because they're different, but correlation does not imply causation. Without having been in the game or reading them entirely, it's pretty much impossible to tell what drove him to post differently in that regard. Meta is useful for general trends but I don't believe the way you used it is indicative of anything. I could prove just about anything I wanted using a mafia and towngame of any one player. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah chances are damdred isn't scum.
If I were to continue playing as I normally would I'd probably tunnel him uselessly till days end but I'm sure there's a good reason people haven't picked up on what I found to be marginally significant.
I'll be looking elsewhere when I get the chance. I still want you to wow me with something though, damdred. I want to know why I lost one of those 2014 awards to you. I don't like this defeatist attitude. I had a pretty good townread on you so far but this is weaksauce. I remember Wave in Shadow consistently going against the grain with his own thoughts and no matter what the other veterans said, he continued on his own thought pattern. I find this very atypical of townWave. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:31 Eden1892 wrote:
I think HTS replaced out because she's mafia, now to go read the thread for people who probably aren't mafia due to that Can we please not do this? Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:57 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I also want more comments on my case. I cant take seriously your case on Tormented, lyching someone for being paranoid on you during first posts while you were trolling around is not a solid argument from my point of view. First I thought you could be putting some pressure on Tormented, now I am thinking, again, you are trying to bring attention to a dead point, again. That's not my argument at all. My argument is that he was paranoid of everyone at first, then when asked to give reads on people the only people he's paranoid of is the people he's mentioned before in his filter, and then there's that he separates between "town or mafia" and "no clue" for no apparent reason whatsoever. Eden Node is probably town, stop pestering him. Pester this guy instead Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:33 yamato77 wrote:
I think ksc might be mafia.
I remember him being obstinate as town but not altogether unwilling to participate. He was much more forthcoming in the game I played with him.
I still kinda think tormented is town mafia but it's more up in the air with Artanis being on the lynch as well and the question mark I have for him. Are you seriously making unflipped associations right now? Like, really? On February 25 2015 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 08:15 yamato77 wrote:On February 25 2015 08:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On February 25 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not making unflipped associations, I'm judging my read on a player against how other people are reading them and what I think of the player doing the reading. You're lessening a scumread on someone because someone you don't scumread but see as a "question mark" also scumreads him. I'd expect that from Vivax, but not you. sick vivax burn My read isn't weaker, it's simply that I'm unsure about committing to the lynch. The two are different. Okay, that's fair I suppose. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 08:16 _Tormented_ wrote:
@Artanis - What about my list gave you any impression at all that I was dead certain about anyone? You demanded reads, so I gave you what I was currently leaning toward at the time. I did not have the time to write an essay about each person and honestly I don't really trust any of my reads yet until I get accustomed to the pace at which you all play on this site. Also, I am not "paranoid", I just honestly don't have any concrete reads yet and any reads I would give would be 75% guess work right now. If that makes me mafia, then your loss. The reason I'm scumreading you for it is because your first post mentioned you didn't have any strong reads at all. You never gave a reason for being hesitant on me other than being afraid of "aggressive scum", yet you never applied this reasoning to any of your townreads. Your paranoia was selective which doesn't correspond to a town thought process, but rather one where you're just making stuff up on the spot, and are thus mafia. I was aware that those reads aren't dead certain, the point is that you didn't express that paranoia for anyone but myself and Eden in your reads without ever giving a reason why you'd be more paranoid of us than any of your townreads. On February 25 2015 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 09:29 yamato77 wrote:
So artanis, what exactly do you think of me? Leaning mafia, but I think the case on Tormented is better. Reading Cell right now I notice WoS bashing meta. I chuckled. On February 25 2015 22:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 22:07 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 25 2015 22:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Damdred stop posting whilst driving, you're a traffic hazard Yeah seriously, haven't you been ticketed multiple times because of that? And Artanis if that isn't helpful why aren't you voting Yamato with the rest of these guys? Because I'm not sure yet if he's a better lynch than Tormented. I'm still rereading what's been posted since I went to bed too. On February 25 2015 22:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Eden how are you so sure that Tormented is a distraction lynch over just, you know, actually being scum? I've established how his thought process makes no sense and no one has come up with a reasonable argument against it. On February 25 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also I don't think your wave case is that strong. I pointed out that he was adhering more to thread sentiment already here and he replied that he's changing his meta. I actually feel like he's been probing people's thoughts for the most part in the rest of the game. I also don't think his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory; he could simply find it stronger than the case on Tormented, though I still don't understand why people keep ignoring that case. On February 26 2015 00:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 23:34 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 23:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't understand why you aren't pushing it though since as you've mentioned both Yamato and Snarfs have echoed your suspicions, so I ask my question again. Where do I rank between your other two suspects and can you elaborate on why? I cant push something no one believes (Yamato and Scarfs pointed at you but never supported my arguments) based on apparently "weak" arguments. I think this would only disturb town thinking. You cant be between my other 2 suspects, you are on a side, completly parked for now and by now I mean D1 unless a good case (much better than mine) appears on you. Cant see why you need more elaboration. Please enlighten me if you really need it. While writing this, I am starting to think you are just testing me now, which brings me to think you are town or a very clever mafia player. Since I believe you are clever and skilled enough to overskill me easyly, by the moment I don't want to dedicate much more time on you, since I would rather focus on my strongest suspects and whatever new starts to boil in the thread. I think this post is very townie because the paranoia is very well articulated and omnipresent in everything, as well as having a very clear idea about what to him is acting in the best interest of town and being congruent in it. This in contrast to Tormented for which, I once again repeat, no one has found a viable explanation regarding his sudden shift in thoughts. On February 26 2015 00:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 00:36 KelsierSC wrote:On February 26 2015 00:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On February 25 2015 23:34 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 23:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't understand why you aren't pushing it though since as you've mentioned both Yamato and Snarfs have echoed your suspicions, so I ask my question again. Where do I rank between your other two suspects and can you elaborate on why? I cant push something no one believes (Yamato and Scarfs pointed at you but never supported my arguments) based on apparently "weak" arguments. I think this would only disturb town thinking. You cant be between my other 2 suspects, you are on a side, completly parked for now and by now I mean D1 unless a good case (much better than mine) appears on you. Cant see why you need more elaboration. Please enlighten me if you really need it. While writing this, I am starting to think you are just testing me now, which brings me to think you are town or a very clever mafia player. Since I believe you are clever and skilled enough to overskill me easyly, by the moment I don't want to dedicate much more time on you, since I would rather focus on my strongest suspects and whatever new starts to boil in the thread. I think this post is very townie because the paranoia is very well articulated and omnipresent in everything, as well as having a very clear idea about what to him is acting in the best interest of town and being congruent in it. This in contrast to Tormented for which, I once again repeat, no one has found a viable explanation regarding his sudden shift in thoughts. i'm reading through your filter and despite a lot of posting all I can see is Tormented is mafia. which is kind of stupid considering he is a new player and probably pretty hard to read. you've basically called a lot of people town. It will be interesting to see what you do when you are forced to lynch one of them. I agree new players tend to be hard to read, but I find his change of mindset and inconsistencies incompatible with a town mindset. I believe I've found mafia, I see no one able to counter my argument other than a weak "he's a new player" which doesn't actually invalidate the point, so I'm going to keep driving it home until he gets lynched. I'm willing to lynch Yamato as well though. I believe I've made that clear. On February 26 2015 01:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So why have you eliminated Tormented as a potential lynch when your only defense for him was that it could be because he's a newbie? That argument would only make sense to make him null, which should put him in a poe group.
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EPT
