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On January 30 2015 04:42 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 04:37 Koshi wrote:
People are allowed to have opinions. Even if they are 100% wrong. True But 4srs You can only try to balance them, the reason normals exist is to be able to rely on a balanced, expected outcome. Themed games you still try to balance, but frankly I think watchdoging a themed setup for balance is like misunderstanding the whole reason the designators [t] [m] [n] [w] etc. exist. It isn't that, it is just similar. And yeah, I have submitted some gross setups to balance considerations, but that's the thing- they didn't get made. This one appears to have passed muster, and if DP is involved I trust it frankly.
Even a perfect balanced roulette can roll red 15 times in a row. I don't judge the balance of a game on it's outcome, nobody should.
But if a normal mini require 3 ml for scum to win if they hit perfectly (no saves) or simple 4 ml for scum to win, and then you join a normal big game and scum wins 100% of the times after 3 misslynches whetever the fuck happens. I don't call that balanced.
The main issue some people have with assassins/Serial Poisoners/Serial Killers/Crabs and themed games is that some of the hosts forget that we play this game to use some deduction skills to find mafia and then win the game due to this skill. . With and SK for example town can play pretty perfect and still get fucked by the SK and mafia night power. Or mafia gets fucked because the SK can win with town and just kill mafia or lynchbait.......... And you get themed games in which there are 4 recruiting scumteams, nullifying the lynches and the skill part of the game basically. (DISCLAIMED: the game ended after n2 so I don't really know the full set-up, because there was a 5th faction that had more information about the recruiting scumteams).
Not for Artanis, in case I want to play this game and not roll scum coincidentally:+ Show Spoiler +
Or the host uses dumb and completely one sided balance set-ups like in Cell mafia in which there are no flips, 33% of the game is mafia, and no blue roles. And in the latest addition there also would have been a NK.
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Wait.
If I ever learn that rng is not used for roles, I will be absolutely pissed.
Absolutely pissed.
Like one assurance of this I have is that Marv has been scum so much recently, that nobody would do that to him intentionally.
If it is,  my fellow hosts and I'm with Marv.
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And I remember golden sun
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I think marv used to balance his teams 
Or was it Ver?
Or who was it?
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On January 30 2015 06:19 Koshi wrote:I think marv used to balance his teams Or was it Ver? Or who was it?
That would really, really piss me off nonetheless
I hate host wifom so bad that a sarcastic game idea I had suggested publicly at one time is "Host wifom mafia" where I routinely be cryptic in the thread.
Doing that is so bad. Random.org plz.
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On January 30 2015 06:09 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 04:42 Alakaslam wrote:On January 30 2015 04:37 Koshi wrote:
People are allowed to have opinions. Even if they are 100% wrong. True But 4srs You can only try to balance them, the reason normals exist is to be able to rely on a balanced, expected outcome. Themed games you still try to balance, but frankly I think watchdoging a themed setup for balance is like misunderstanding the whole reason the designators [t] [m] [n] [w] etc. exist. It isn't that, it is just similar. And yeah, I have submitted some gross setups to balance considerations, but that's the thing- they didn't get made. This one appears to have passed muster, and if DP is involved I trust it frankly. Even a perfect balanced roulette can roll red 15 times in a row. I don't judge the balance of a game on it's outcome, nobody should. But if a normal mini require 3 ml for scum to win if they hit perfectly (no saves) or simple 4 ml for scum to win, and then you join a normal big game and scum wins 100% of the times after 3 misslynches whetever the fuck happens. I don't call that balanced. The main issue some people have with assassins/Serial Poisoners/Serial Killers/Crabs and themed games is that some of the hosts forget that we play this game to use some deduction skills to find mafia and then win the game due to this skill. . With and SK for example town can play pretty perfect and still get fucked by the SK and mafia night power. Or mafia gets fucked because the SK can win with town and just kill mafia or lynchbait.......... And you get themed games in which there are 4 recruiting scumteams, nullifying the lynches and the skill part of the game basically. (DISCLAIMED: the game ended after n2 so I don't really know the full set-up, because there was a 5th faction that had more information about the recruiting scumteams). Not for Artanis, in case I want to play this game and not roll scum coincidentally: + Show Spoiler +
Or the host uses dumb and completely one sided balance set-ups like in Cell mafia in which there are no flips, 33% of the game is mafia, and no blue roles. And in the latest addition there also would have been a NK.
Artanis and I spent a good chunk of time going over it last night,
This is a themed game so of course it is going to be more power heavy than a normal game but we both believe in balancing for fairness between factions and showing a bias into skill based powers and roles that allow mafia counter play and a bias against boring roles and powers such as KP.
That doesn't mean no KP entirely but that was my mindset when I looked over the game.
Personally I think there are some really interesting mechanics and skill based roles in this game.
Does all this mean the game is going to be PERFECTLY balanced. Probably not because we can only theorize as to how things will play out. HOWEVER I hate themed games because I believe they are a bastardization of everything that is good about mafia. Isn't that the kind of person you want helping balance a themed game?
I can tell you It will be more balanced than some of these idiotic normal games the balance team has approved.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
i trust artanis and dp to balance pretty well
like i know me and palmar will end up with a pretty close setup when we're doing it
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Koshi everyone actually expected Cell to be town favoured because you basically have 5 list checks, and I asked a decent amount of people for feedback. Sometimes things don't turn out the way you expect.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
i think cell is really balanced, i think town just got outplayed in the games.
mafia had zero right to win the game i was in for instance. you can't legislate for town shitting the bed and/or getting outplayed
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I thought cell was dumb as shit. I remember abusing Artanis on skype because I had no clue how on earth THAT was a a normal game and it was taking up the mini slot that I wanted to play.
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On January 30 2015 06:35 marvellosity wrote:
i think cell is really balanced, i think town just got outplayed in the games.
mafia had zero right to win the game i was in for instance. you can't legislate for town shitting the bed and/or getting outplayed
hahahahahahaha.
Good one marv.
Balanced
Cell
Pick 1
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
mocking baselessly changes nothing koshi.
you've become a sour puss.
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I am the one who gave reasons why it isn't balanced. You didn't.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Koshi join the game. It will be fine. I think.
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On January 30 2015 06:47 marvellosity wrote:
but you're clueless
mocking baselessly changes nothing marv.
you've become a sour puss.
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Marv you realize cell was supposed to be a normal mini originally. It wasn't balanced as a normal game.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 30 2015 06:48 DarthPunk wrote:
Marv you realize cell was supposed to be a normal mini originally. It wasn't balanced as a normal game.
i don't care what it's classification was
in the game i played, there were 3 really obvious mafia, and only 1 got lynched (1 was in the final cell and it didn't make it that far).
town just had to not shit the bed to win, but town shit the bed. c'est la vie.
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On January 30 2015 06:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 06:48 DarthPunk wrote:
Marv you realize cell was supposed to be a normal mini originally. It wasn't balanced as a normal game. i don't care what it's classification was in the game i played, there were 3 really obvious mafia, and only 1 got lynched (1 was in the final cell and it didn't make it that far). town just had to not shit the bed to win, but town shit the bed. c'est la vie.
There can be three really obvious mafia, town can shit the bed AND the game can still be Imbalanced. They are not mutually exclusive.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
i've never seen a good reason for it to be imbalanced anyway.
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EPT
