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On January 12 2015 04:23 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:13 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 02:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:03 GlowingBear wrote:
Damdred, if you think mafia preferred ritoky's death, you have to admit that Superbia's wagon was pure town.
Do you think all the ritoky voters are scum? This is terrible reasoning. If scum want something it doesn't mean they all pile upon that objective. The game would be quite easy if that were the case. Superbia wasting his vote is extremely peculiar, Artanis. It indicates a plan. Ritoky wasted his vote too. Why are you conveniently forgetting that? What difference does it make to what I'm saying?
Because for some reason Superbia wasting a vote implies a plan to you but Ritoky doing the same doesn't?
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Lazer do you still read Damdred as scum?
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On January 12 2015 04:53 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nope. Read my filter (like this and last page probably) for more details :D
Found it, looks fine.
I'm curious what makes you scumread Kelsier. He was the first name you mentioned with "scum is somewhere in here" yet you haven't really mentioned him since.
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On January 12 2015 04:59 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 04:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 04:23 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:13 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 02:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:03 GlowingBear wrote:
Damdred, if you think mafia preferred ritoky's death, you have to admit that Superbia's wagon was pure town.
Do you think all the ritoky voters are scum? This is terrible reasoning. If scum want something it doesn't mean they all pile upon that objective. The game would be quite easy if that were the case. Superbia wasting his vote is extremely peculiar, Artanis. It indicates a plan. Ritoky wasted his vote too. Why are you conveniently forgetting that? What difference does it make to what I'm saying? Because for some reason Superbia wasting a vote implies a plan to you but Ritoky doing the same doesn't? Superbia's survivability depended on him voting ritoky, something he didn't. Ritoky's survivability didn't depend on that. In any way, this also reinforces the theory that mafia had left their votes outside the wagons in case townies changed from Superbia to ritoky, so they could still guarantee Superbia's lynch. Lazermonkey, I can't explain that list because I'm completely confused with this game, if you couldn't already tell
Ritoky was one vote away from dying himself. If scum truly wanted Ritoky to live over Superbia then Ritoky would've voted Superbia to avoid any town throwing a wrench in their plans.
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On January 12 2015 05:05 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 05:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 04:59 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 04:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 04:23 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:13 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 02:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:03 GlowingBear wrote:
Damdred, if you think mafia preferred ritoky's death, you have to admit that Superbia's wagon was pure town.
Do you think all the ritoky voters are scum? This is terrible reasoning. If scum want something it doesn't mean they all pile upon that objective. The game would be quite easy if that were the case. Superbia wasting his vote is extremely peculiar, Artanis. It indicates a plan. Ritoky wasted his vote too. Why are you conveniently forgetting that? What difference does it make to what I'm saying? Because for some reason Superbia wasting a vote implies a plan to you but Ritoky doing the same doesn't? Superbia's survivability depended on him voting ritoky, something he didn't. Ritoky's survivability didn't depend on that. In any way, this also reinforces the theory that mafia had left their votes outside the wagons in case townies changed from Superbia to ritoky, so they could still guarantee Superbia's lynch. Lazermonkey, I can't explain that list because I'm completely confused with this game, if you couldn't already tell Ritoky was one vote away from dying himself. If scum truly wanted Ritoky to live over Superbia then Ritoky would've voted Superbia to avoid any town throwing a wrench in their plans. Can you explain to me what happened then?
The most simple explanation is that scum didn't care because they were both obvscum.
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On January 12 2015 05:07 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 05:05 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 05:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 04:59 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 04:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 04:23 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:13 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 02:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:03 GlowingBear wrote:
Damdred, if you think mafia preferred ritoky's death, you have to admit that Superbia's wagon was pure town.
Do you think all the ritoky voters are scum? This is terrible reasoning. If scum want something it doesn't mean they all pile upon that objective. The game would be quite easy if that were the case. Superbia wasting his vote is extremely peculiar, Artanis. It indicates a plan. Ritoky wasted his vote too. Why are you conveniently forgetting that? What difference does it make to what I'm saying? Because for some reason Superbia wasting a vote implies a plan to you but Ritoky doing the same doesn't? Superbia's survivability depended on him voting ritoky, something he didn't. Ritoky's survivability didn't depend on that. In any way, this also reinforces the theory that mafia had left their votes outside the wagons in case townies changed from Superbia to ritoky, so they could still guarantee Superbia's lynch. Lazermonkey, I can't explain that list because I'm completely confused with this game, if you couldn't already tell Ritoky was one vote away from dying himself. If scum truly wanted Ritoky to live over Superbia then Ritoky would've voted Superbia to avoid any town throwing a wrench in their plans. Can you explain to me what happened then? Scum wanted Ritoky to die over Super but couldn't get it done.
Wouldn't Super vote Ritoky and have Ritoky selfvote at the end if this was what they wanted?
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On January 12 2015 05:10 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 05:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 05:07 DarthPunk wrote:On January 12 2015 05:05 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 05:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 04:59 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 04:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 04:23 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 02:13 GlowingBear wrote:
[quote]
Superbia wasting his vote is extremely peculiar, Artanis. It indicates a plan. Ritoky wasted his vote too. Why are you conveniently forgetting that? What difference does it make to what I'm saying? Because for some reason Superbia wasting a vote implies a plan to you but Ritoky doing the same doesn't? Superbia's survivability depended on him voting ritoky, something he didn't. Ritoky's survivability didn't depend on that. In any way, this also reinforces the theory that mafia had left their votes outside the wagons in case townies changed from Superbia to ritoky, so they could still guarantee Superbia's lynch. Lazermonkey, I can't explain that list because I'm completely confused with this game, if you couldn't already tell Ritoky was one vote away from dying himself. If scum truly wanted Ritoky to live over Superbia then Ritoky would've voted Superbia to avoid any town throwing a wrench in their plans. Can you explain to me what happened then? Scum wanted Ritoky to die over Super but couldn't get it done. Wouldn't Super vote Ritoky and have Ritoky selfvote at the end if this was what they wanted? A self vote is too obvious, cmon
Oh right that would look pretty bad yeah. If they really wanted Ritoky dead though at the very least Superbia would be voting him.
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On January 12 2015 05:44 Lazermonkey wrote:
Need to look into Artanis tomorrow I think. He pushed superbia hard D2 which is nice but he ended up on geript. Had voted superbia instead we would've killed superbia D2 and saved geript.
I went to bed at a time when there were 3 votes on superbia and everyone was hesitant to vote for him. I initiated the push but couldn't get it off the ground because a lot of people simply called him a lurker and went on with their lives. You might want to look into that when you reread it. That's actually a good idea to do myself.
On January 12 2015 06:24 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 05:49 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 12 2015 05:41 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 05:34 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 12 2015 05:01 GlowingBear wrote:On January 12 2015 04:57 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 10 2015 10:08 GlowingBear wrote:On January 10 2015 10:06 Damdred wrote:
A few questions GB
Who are the other mafia on superbia besides lazer?
Also the theory rests on that rit is the framer. What if he's not what does that change? It makes lazermonkey town. Ritoky must be lynched today anyway, there is no motive for Superbia to waste his vote if ritoky was town. GB, what do you think about this now that ritoky did not flip framer? This was before I thought about the scenario where mafia didn't really believed Robik was cop and was trying to guarantee ritoky's claim on the next day. So, you're still scum to my eyes. waitwat? Do you REALLY believe this? I mean, alot of people was unsure about who was cop between Robik and ritoky but scum knew that ritoky was scum, so they shouldn't have been unsure at all. Kelsier was hinting he was the cop, so was SL. The fact that SL didn't die night2, btw, is odd Lol, yhea but we are talking about D3 now. Kel didn't claim cop. Robik did. Do you really think that scum thought that anyone but Robik was cop? I mean, he obviously wasn't modconfirmed but he was really fucking likely to be cop at that point. After saying to marv that he would fake claim he was the cop the get ritoky lunched, his claim was pretty unclear.
I can't agree with this. Yes, there was a little doubt given that Robik could've just claimed to get Ritoky lynched but it's such a gigantic risk to take as it could trigger the real cop to claim after all that it was very unlikely not to be him.
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On January 04 2015 06:16 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2015 06:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 04 2015 06:00 Lazermonkey wrote:
Artanis/Superbia/Robik/anyone else that is here: comments on Damdred? I still need to read his filter since your case is pretty much "he hasn't been doing this, check his filter". Will you vote Superbia with me? Superbia4lynch '15. I'd rather not.
Oh hello.
Damdred did join me on voting Superbia. Vivax was around but didn't comment on him. I believe everyone else has died or was afk at the time.
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DP check these posts by Chyz, two of the last posts he made before ragequitting the game.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 02 2015 07:45 TheChyz wrote:Ok I'm back and refreshed a bit cause I think I was getting too emotionally invested for my own health. Anyways I still think we should lynch laser over geript. If anything we can just have geript lynched day 2 if he still continues to play the way he is, but it really seems like it is more out of not being too invested in the game. I still think geript is scummy but not as much as laser. Show nested quote +On January 01 2015 00:30 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 31 2014 17:06 TheChyz wrote:
Hello all.
Currently I don't like the direction that dr.H and ritoky are going. Basically I just see it as dr.H doing something not alignment indicative (someone always talks about policy lynches :/ ) and now ritoky is just trying to either prove that dr.H is scum or (my most probably guess) is he just wants to get an early acknowledgement of dominance by trying to force dr.H into admitting he did not follow his own policy (which most people don't follow anyway). I don't see a reason why ritoky would push this so far without any agenda.
@ritoky lets move onto something a bit more important than trying to prove your dick is bigger than dr.H's. If there is anything substantial you have then go ahead, but currently your just being more of a filter spammer than anything. Chyz doesn't follow up with anything at all untill he is called out. Why is it that he the first thing that he felt he had to post was that people was on the wrong track, instead of actually trying give some of his own opinion? This is scum mentality. ##Vote: TheChyz Show nested quote +On January 01 2015 01:19 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 01 2015 01:07 Koshi wrote:On January 01 2015 00:57 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 01 2015 00:53 Koshi wrote:On January 01 2015 00:50 Lazermonkey wrote:
Its not necesarily wrong with making a post saying that a discussion is stupid. The problem is when the only post you have is a post calling a discussion stupid. Why is it, after all the of the discussion and multiple people calling out rikoty, that all Chyz did was saying that the discussion was stupid? Just like Artanis said, why say "do something usefull" and proceed to do nothing yourself?
Granted, he did put up some reads later but only after he was called out.
Don't you think there is a scum motive in trying to look active while not really pushing the thread forward? Because I would argue that is what Chyz did. Show me a game in which Chyz is a townleader. My read on Chyz is not based on meta. I have never played nor read one of his games. Is this how he normaly plays as town you think? 2 people were doing something that nobody so far found useful for 20 posts in a row. 1 guy said to those 2 people to stop their shitposting and asks on of them to do something useful in 1 post. The 1 guy gets crap for doing not more pro-towns things in his 1 post and the 2 people who made 20 shitpost together are not discussed. --- I don't get it. Is it meta? Scum generally do exactly 1 protown thing in their post? I get that TheChyz could have also done more digging himself, create more content, actively question people and look for scum. But unless he has a meta for doing those things, I am already content with him doing the 1 thing. It's more than others. And like you said, he did scumhunting after that. It doesn't matter that people had to ask him for it. It is important that he did it, and I don't see you commenting on the value of those posts. You just say: "He did scumhunting because he was asked for it, so it doesn't count". The reason I asked if you knew his meta was because you dismissed my by implying that unless you generally act as a townleader, stuff like this isn't scummy. I disagree. Saying to two people that they should stop arguing over stupid shit is protown. But it is very non-commital. Its okay to do stuff like that as long as you are pushing scum as well. But Chyz wasn't hunting scum, not untill people called him out for not hunting scum. It does not matter if he scumhunted after he was called out. If you are town and get called out for that, you scum hunt because it helps town. If you are scum, you scum hunt to avoid suspicion. The fact that he started scum hunt after he got called out for it IS not alignment indicative. I feel what is relevant here is what his motive was. Its clear that he was reading the thread, its clear that he wrote a post, its clear that he didn't care to post any reads untill he got called out for it. What alignment does these action make sense from? So first he says it is scum mentality for doing all of this and then proceeds to say that what I did is NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE and that the real problem is my motive? Unless you know what my motive is that is a HUGE jump to conclusions off of my first post. During this time in the thread people liked jumping on me and as such laser seems to be trying to find different angles to attack me from. More on this jumping onto the hype train later on. Show nested quote +On January 01 2015 02:30 Lazermonkey wrote:
Soo, about the 3 "protagonists"
Eden - Attacked DH for his policy-post. While I agree with his points about policy-lynching, it felt wierd (as some others pointed out) that he called DHs post "stiff and akward timed" while still saying he was town and yet ends up saying DH is town. Not reading to much into this though, as I felt he explained himself well later on regarding the DH-post. His interactions with DH seems possible both from town and scum. He attacks Chyz which is nice though.
DH - Got discussion going early on, posted alot (even though some of it was pretty bad). Not lynching today.
rik - tunneled the shit out of DH, didn't post much else. Tunneling is really non-alignment indicative. I'm null on him. So this is super wishy washy to me. Not really attacking anybody or defending anybody (which is ok) but literally it sounds like im just reading a synopsis of what happened in the thread. Seems like someone not having reads but making some in order to look pro town (yes u can say im hypocrite, but I think i have given a few okish cases, kk?). Show nested quote +On January 01 2015 03:23 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 01 2015 03:16 Damdred wrote:On January 01 2015 02:52 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 01 2015 02:36 Damdred wrote:On January 01 2015 02:30 Lazermonkey wrote:
Soo, about the 3 "protagonists"
Eden - Attacked DH for his policy-post. While I agree with his points about policy-lynching, it felt wierd (as some others pointed out) that he called DHs post "stiff and akward timed" while still saying he was town and yet ends up saying DH is town. Not reading to much into this though, as I felt he explained himself well later on regarding the DH-post. His interactions with DH seems possible both from town and scum. He attacks Chyz which is nice though.
DH - Got discussion going early on, posted alot (even though some of it was pretty bad). Not lynching today.
rik - tunneled the shit out of DH, didn't post much else. Tunneling is really non-alignment indicative. I'm null on him. Your eden post has no real conclusion, are you reading them scum null or town? This read feels a bit fabricated to me I'm not sure what to make of your DH read, what was so bad that he posted to you? Why would you not lynch someone today just because they posted a lot even if a lot of it was bad to you? Rit got discussion going also the same as DH and posted a good bit but you don't give him the same pass? Why? Overall this reads pretty fabricated and scummy to me We are halfway in D1. The Eden and Rit reads are very inconclusive because they've said very little of value this far. DH got the discussion going more than Rit did (that is my impression at least). Compare their filters. I won't argue that drh has a bigger filter than ritoky, because its obviously the truth. At the time of your reads you had their argument and drh pushing his scum read. However I disagree that Eden and rit have said little of value a lot of discussion has happened around them so you should be able to take a stance. Hell your Eden read seems like a scum read without you saying that they are scum Well, if your argument is "you should be able to pick a more clear stance" I cannot argue against it. I don't feel like making up a read on any of them just to please you. Also, my read on Eden is not a scum read. He is null. Hmm, seems contradictory to a something a few posts ago. Really looks like trying not to give a real read and offer little to the town. Show nested quote +On January 01 2015 03:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I dislike Koshi this far. Not only does his reads seem pretty off but he doesn't push geript one single bit, despite the fact that he is voting greipt. If you are town and think someone is scum but noone else is voting that person, you push that person. Koshi is not doing that.
I have to go now, will be able to post more tomorrow.
Same complaint that people use on me can be applied here. Says something, but has no point other than having something to make it seem like he is contributing to town. Show nested quote +On January 01 2015 23:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hi again.
I realize that I kinda sucked yesterday. Got way to tunnely on Chyz. I will try to reread some things and reevaluate my thoughts as best as I can.
As for the "case" on me, I think its pretty weak + I will have some time to post today so I don't fear too much for my death. Won't really bother to defend myself right now but I'd rather focus on trying to get a hang on the game and figure out who I think is the best lynch! Like i've said before, this is reading super "I'm sorry for doing what I did yesterday, forget about it and I will be town today. Lets lynch scum. GO TEAM GO". BLEH, try to hide more? Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 01:06 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm posting my thoughts as I go.
I said yesterday that I dislike Koshi. After looking at his filter, I still think he looks bad. He didn't post much since yesterday evening so most of this is simply rehashing.
1. (Palmar was already touching on this but I think its a strong point which is worth repeating)
Koshi was very very eager to defend Chyz in the early game. I'm not making any preflip associations here, but just by looking at his filter you can see how much time he spends on defending Chyz. This makes it looks like he is making alot of contributions (which in a sense he is) but he is in no way doing alot of scum hunting. Why is it that Koshi felt the ned to defend Chyz so hard in the first half of D1?
2. Not pushing geript despite voting him.
3. Afraid to actually call people scum. Instead saying things like "Your excuses come over scummy". Why not say YOU look scummy? Trying to set up a vote if possible, yet not pushing the lynch or having me against him as much as he could have. So this is pretty interesting. Seems like he is trying to push koshi a little but still not commiting. I don't have anything to add other than laser described himself perfectly in his 3rd point about koshi. Next immediately he forgets about koshi and goes onto geript. The only time before that he talked about geript is that he is slightly towny to him. So from going to leaning towny to super fine with lynching is a pretty big jump and his points he brings up don't merit that much of a jump. So what happened is koshi stuff died off a bit and then geript train was just starting. This would be a great vote for him if geript gets lynched because he was one of the first few but not the lynch starter so it seems like hes just trying to put himself in a good position if geript gets lynched. Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 02:04 Lazermonkey wrote:
As for rikoty, I think he is mildly suspicious but not lynch worthy. He didn't really do anything but tunnel DH yesterday for a pretty retarded reason. By doing this, he essentially avoided talking about most other things. Making a massive list of all his reads is not bad, but with no follow up this isn't really helping us in any way.
I think he could be a potential candidate for lynch D2 though. "I looked at him, not lynch worthy, but lynch tmrw is ok". Seems like he is trying to give rikoty a free pass to live another day...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also following the general town wagon because rikoty not doing so hot so this gets him + town points. Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 02:46 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm having doubts about Chyz as well. I do think his play is bad and I don't agree with almost anything he has said this fair. But I'm not sure that makes him scum. He could just as well be bad town. I don't disagree with your case DH in the sense that I think all of Chyz plays are wierd and/or bad but can you explain his actions from a scum PoV? If something doesn't make sense from a town PoV but also doesn't make sense as scum, I don't think its a good reason to lynch someone for.
Granted, I would not be super sad if Chyz got lynched today. I do think he is a better lynch than say Robik. But I think geript is a much better lynch for today.
##Unvote
##Vote: geript So he drops his accusation on me (remember, at this point only dr.H was on my ass, everybody was mostly like, meh about me). Again super bandwagony. And up to this point his only real reads that I have seen that aren't rehashed stuff is a little on koshi (which also applies to him) so basically garbage. Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 03:02 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:57 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:51 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:38 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:32 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:22 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:21 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:15 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:07 Lazermonkey wrote:
Lynching Marv is a terrible idea btw. Elaborate. Basically what Artanis said. marv will be posting more on D2 no matter what alignment he is. We will be able to judge him better at that point. If he sucks then, sure I can kill him. To kill the strongest player because he is inactive D1, when there are legitimate reasons to be inactive, is hardly worth it. Besides, even if your really think he is a good target, do you really believe he is the BEST target? If marv is scum he will probably be happy to even survive day1. On January 02 2015 02:23 justanothertownie wrote:
You didn't even give a read on marv. I'm not super impressed by marvs play this fair but TBH I don't have a strong read on him nor do I prioritize getting a better read on him atm. My point still stands though, I'm not willing to kill the strongest player because he is playing bad/is inactive D1. I once thought so too but this logic is actually retarded. If he is the strongest player he may aswell show us that he is town. So you would rather kill someone for not playing the game the way you want it to be played than to actually kill the most likely scum? Besides, if you really think marv is playing that bad does it make him more scum? It doesn't make sense for scum marv to suck so I feel this is a flawed argument. Marvs towngame is to play well and very active. Marvs scumgame is to not do jackshit. What do you think he is doing this game? o.O really? I've never played with scum marv. I guess that makes your argument more valid. Still, do you think he is the BEST lynch for today? So from going from, "I'm not lynching till day 2 cause marv is a strong player and I don't have a read on him or is playing bad" into, "well people are talking about marv, might aswell seem interested now". And finally after getting his points for being suspicious of marv he goes back to saying that geript is the best lynch so far. Again this is all unoriginal and is just following w/e the thread seems to be heading towards. I have not seen him give a good reason why he thinks geript is scummy and he just follows the threads flow. Not doing any scum hunting and when does they are pretty weak cases. Always seems to agree with the general tone of the thread and never has anything useful to add. Just lurking on through while still pretending to be "active". Overall I think he is a better lynch the geript and I think people should at least look more indepth on him. Also I have a feeling the ritoky and him are buddied scum. Sorry for long post, I know how you guys hate it but I really think laser is the best lynch today. On January 02 2015 08:47 TheChyz wrote:
ya im done, this game has been such a mispleasure to play. Thanks dr.H, great game played by you. Best town player by far. You caught the scum. Here are my current notes btw.
koshi - too good at defending me and making no other good reads. hasnt really contributed anything to town. scummy
glowingbear - nada, not good sign
geript - null to scum. Started fine but I expected more. Not leading town like I remember.
Kinda just lurking but still in thread. Still nothing really. Expected more and his scum read on keslier is wtf?
Scummy
Artanis[XP] - somegood reads, some terrible ones. still making them and pushing them alright imo. towny.
lazermonkey - bandwagoned onto me. made garbage about other people. need actual reads and not garbage at this point in
the game. Tries to apologize, every post he makes makes him seem worse and worse. Tries to cover up his tracks.
scummy
marvellositty - apparently this great player but nada? something doesn't feel right. but terrible start can be excuse? slightly scummy
justanothertownie - bothers me with some posts but I can kinda feel his train of thought. leaning townny
Iamrobik - doesn't do anything but still in thread? weird. lazy. scummy
theChyz - SUPER TOWN
palmar - Keeps thread in good direction. If anything only look at day 3 since anything helping town (even if in wrong direction) is not worth a thought of lynching. town
damdred - nothing jumps out, feels way too much of doing nothing for my taste, null to slightly scummy
batsnacks - kinda weird play. posts sometimes good info, and then shit later. null
sicklucker - I don't really like any of his reads hes making and they all seem kinda out in left field. scummy-ish
vivax - don't like atm, not enough but just his posts are pretty off. scummy but weak at best
kelsierSC - seems to be steering the town whenever he talks, pretty clear train of thought. slightly town. I like him more now, just seems to keep towny vibe. town
ritoky - garbage opener, nothing since. garbage large post for no reason and terrible reads. scum
Dr.H - rode me hard but kinda like how I did when town. Town. Big d bag tho.
Eden1892 - nothing really sticks out too much, need to read closer, null. Also kinda just lurking around but does bring up good points every so ofter, towny.
RebirthOfLegend - nada, not good sign
Superbia - nada, not good sign
scum list if I had to pick:
-lazermonkey
-ritoky
-geript
-koshi
-a lurker/sicklucker/damdred
##Vote: TheChyz
Do you find it reasonable to believe that a scumplayer would actually ragequit like this? The slot is pretty much confirmed town imo.
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Chezinu, who are the big bad guys that kill your friends when none can see?
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Oh sweet, sweet plumber
Will you join us today a little longer
There are many questions waiting for you
If you do not answer, you will become poo
When you are scum, you tread the middle of the road
Whereas as town, you go hard or play like a toad
This game you have been mostly invisible
Where is the Palmar that makes his alignment divisible?
Your case on GB was most curious
And your case against Damdred dubious
You helped lynch Geript, a member of our town
What have you done this game that hasn't made us frown?
Oh Plumber, dear dear plumber
We know you love cutting lumber
Yesterday, a tree fell on DP's head
And now we must make you dead.
##Vote Palmar
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Palmar, you were very clear in that Marv should townread you after your defense. What meta read do you believe he has on you and why did you say he should already have a townread on you to begin with?
Also, you stated before that Marv was 100% scum, then you said later that Marv should read you as town whether he's town or scum implying that you do in fact doubt your read on him. Why and where did that happen?
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On January 13 2015 00:25 Palmar wrote:Because the closest thing in the thread to an actual accusation, I'm just going to respond to Artanis' poem. Also, he's one of the people I want most to actually talk to, because he's basically stayed away from me throughout the game (it feels like, at least, I've interacted with vivax, gb, marv, sl etc, but him I've sorta never talked to). Don't know what you mean by curious. It's super townie if you know how brains work. If I am mafia, I already know GB's alignment, so why would I bother with the whole "start out piling some scum points on him, pretend to read more, then completely flip my conclusion and call him town". Like I'm not good enough at scum to do that. Now obviously you can argue this, but I'd think that because I have perfect information as mafia, I wouldn't have bothered with the whole changing my mind in the middle of the post/filter read. I think I'd rather have tried to strengthen whichever conclusion I wanted to reach by mostly citing examples pointing in that one direction. Stopping mid-filter when I feel confident he's town after questioning some of his early stuff, is something not many mafia would do.
I've expanded on this in an earlier post. It feels to me like you arbitrarily decided he was town halfway through the case when you couldn't find enough to incriminate him with a fairly meaningless post in "I suspect half the players". I find it hard to imagine that you find it hard to imagine for a scum player to say it as much as to go from scumreading to townreading someone, especially after you criticized him for creating a fake tone earlier. After that you suddenly view his posts in a townie light and do a decent job at that, which I suspect is because you know his alignment. I don't doubt that it could be forged.
Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And your case against Damdred dubious What do you think of Damdred? Do you disagree that he's played this game very much in the background? He's not taken any kind of a leadership role in town and even now, with just a handful of players remaining, almost nothing he has written really stands out.
Sure, voting superbia on day 2 builds the case for him being town somewhat (also, remember, I didn't know superbia was mafia when I wrote my stuff on Damdred, as he hadn't flipped). But it all depends on whether or not we think superbia actually had a real chance to die that day. Also, I cba checking, but was geript firmly in the lead? or was Vivax right there? We may have to check that.[/quote]
I think you're right in that he's mostly been in the background. He's been a question mark for me most of the game. He played a good Day 1 where he drew conclusions (albeit the wrong ones initially, town on ritoky/scum on Dr.H), asked a lot of questions and seemed to be on the hunt for information. On Day 2 he was on the right lynch as well but he hasn't been very impactful, no, and that leaves him in the question mark area. He was the second person to get on Superbia after me when there was no idea if it was going to take off or not.
Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
You helped lynch Geript, a member of our town So what? Being wrong on my first target happens all the time. Weren't you on his wagon too? I made a case, I believed in it, geript's non-response made me want to go through with it. Do you doubt that I believed geript was mafia? Or at least he had a good chance of being one?
Of course I doubt it, because I think there's a good chance you're scum. I was on the wagon reluctantly because I felt he was a better lynch than Vivax and it looked like Superbia wasn't going to get lynched when I went to bed.
On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
What have you done this game that hasn't made us frown?
Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 22:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 31 2014 20:52 Palmar wrote:
geript is sort of scummy in some respects. I have no idea why 20 minutes into the game he started wishing for random people to be there to talk to him. Also, everything he says is sort of... too clean? not dumb enough? I don't know how to describe it and it's just a feeling based on memory, I haven't gone back and re-read, so I'd need to confirm. Palmar confirmed town for making me laugh. I also kinda agree that we haven't really had a Geript moment of insight yet, which reminds me a bit of LXI where he just waddled through. I would like to hear Geript's dumb reasons for considering Dr.Helvetica town. 100% defense. Confirmed town.
Can't argue with that. Guess you're town after all!
On January 13 2015 00:34 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Palmar, you were very clear in that Marv should townread you after your defense. What meta read do you believe he has on you and why did you say he should already have a townread on you to begin with?
Also, you stated before that Marv was 100% scum, then you said later that Marv should read you as town whether he's town or scum implying that you do in fact doubt your read on him. Why and where did that happen? Marv is the big x factor this game. At 2-3 occasions I've basically jumped up "aha, marv must be mafia", but then he keeps being reasonable and I can't convince myself he's 100% mafia. Like he does some weird things, but comes back to sound reasonable again. He reacted almost exactly the way I did to the ritoky claim (ie: we get the counterclaim, we lynch whoever is less believable). The last time I started thinking he might be town was when he posted this: Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 20:10 marvellosity wrote:On January 08 2015 20:03 Palmar wrote:On January 08 2015 19:54 DarthPunk wrote:On January 08 2015 19:49 Palmar wrote:On January 08 2015 19:36 DarthPunk wrote:The following posts both look garbage to me. Very wishy-washy, and I can't seem to empathize with the conclusions he does draw. Palmar, admits himself that he has a strong day one but these posts feel fake and obligatory. On December 31 2014 20:52 Palmar wrote:
Btw, as I'm probably going to be mostly unavailable today (it's new year's eve... why did we even start?). I'll just throw out very much not curated thoughts I had while reading up to like page... 16?
I'll catch up with the rest later.
geript is sort of scummy in some respects. I have no idea why 20 minutes into the game he started wishing for random people to be there to talk to him. Also, everything he says is sort of... too clean? not dumb enough? I don't know how to describe it and it's just a feeling based on memory, I haven't gone back and re-read, so I'd need to confirm.
Eden came off strong and he said something I thought was really dumb.
DrH is probably town, and he had a post that made me feel good about that read.
Damdred is probably town too. He too has a post I can't remember that made me think "oh that looks like a townie".
Koshi overreacting on this page (21) to DrH's dismissal of koshi's defense was kinda mafia. Idk though.
I should probably just sheep marv and lynch him if he's wrong. That's always a fine strategy.
Remember, these reads I'm just throwing out literally from memory of having read like 4-6 pages this morning. Don't pretend these are some concrete observations. Then he tunnels geript for a bit and does nothing I really like. This post seems more likely to come from scum at the start of the game also, just because scum are more likely to feel demotivated early in my experience, conversely a townie who believes he has caught scum is much less likely to feel demotivated. On January 02 2015 20:37 Palmar wrote:
I'm really demotivated to even play now. Probably gonna just afk through the night and see if I turn up dead or not.
If I am alive I might just park my vote on Robik out of spite and never change it for playing terribly. You have to read in context. I wanted to lynch geript. I got a wagon going on geript, when I went to sleep geript was the leading candidate for a lynch. However when I woke up town had voteswitched on to batsnacks (and not Vivax as I had suggested) and killed him. This led me to being extremely frustrated as I didn't even know people were considering batsnacks as a lynch target and I had read batsnacks as town. Cool, so why were your first large posts on day one such wishy-washy inconclusive garbage when you are known for having strong day ones and I personally think you are an excellent player? What benefit did you wish to gain by creating that list post? why did you call DrH probably town? They're not inconclusive garbage. In fact, me hedging half my calls with wording like "very slight leaning town read" is probably the biggest tell that I am town this game. However I also wouldn't expect just about anyone to understand that. It's basically me trying not to be wrong, or if I am wrong have something to point to "hey look, I told you I just called him town for this small thing, not my fault he didn't end up being town". If I was mafia I'd be far more confident in my reads, or so I think, at least. And the list post was basically me trying to do useful stuff. I decided to punch in what I was thinking at that point in the game. and I already explained why I called DrH town. this post is reasonable. I can't remember who it was but there was a game recently where someone made this long, terrible case on me, quoting a bunch of posts where i'm umming and ahhing. Because it's 100% true, it's a very reasonable post by me, and marv takes it as such. The only sort-of-weird thing is that DP was much quicker to pick up on how amazing that post was than marv, which might mean marv was parroting him, might mean MARV NOT READ SO GOOD TAKE TIME, or maybe he just wasn't around. But yeah, I see no scenario, even if I'm cop checked green that I'm leading a lynch on marv today. I think, by far, the best target is Damdred, and I have to read Vivax and LM. I keep forgetting LM actually exists, which sometimes means people are mafia.
I'm curious how you have an opinion on Damdred but not on Lazer, whom Damdred has been talking about ever since Superbia died.
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I only fucked up once actually, near the end.
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On January 13 2015 00:51 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 13 2015 00:25 Palmar wrote:Because the closest thing in the thread to an actual accusation, I'm just going to respond to Artanis' poem. Also, he's one of the people I want most to actually talk to, because he's basically stayed away from me throughout the game (it feels like, at least, I've interacted with vivax, gb, marv, sl etc, but him I've sorta never talked to). On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Your case on GB was most curious Don't know what you mean by curious. It's super townie if you know how brains work. If I am mafia, I already know GB's alignment, so why would I bother with the whole "start out piling some scum points on him, pretend to read more, then completely flip my conclusion and call him town". Like I'm not good enough at scum to do that. Now obviously you can argue this, but I'd think that because I have perfect information as mafia, I wouldn't have bothered with the whole changing my mind in the middle of the post/filter read. I think I'd rather have tried to strengthen whichever conclusion I wanted to reach by mostly citing examples pointing in that one direction. Stopping mid-filter when I feel confident he's town after questioning some of his early stuff, is something not many mafia would do. I've expanded on this in an earlier post. It feels to me like you arbitrarily decided he was town halfway through the case when you couldn't find enough to incriminate him with a fairly meaningless post in "I suspect half the players". I find it hard to imagine that you find it hard to imagine for a scum player to say it as much as to go from scumreading to townreading someone, especially after you criticized him for creating a fake tone earlier. After that you suddenly view his posts in a townie light and do a decent job at that, which I suspect is because you know his alignment. I don't doubt that it could be forged. Obviously we're going to disagree on this one. Here's the thing, I am trying to explain what I did when I went for GB. I sort of admit I actually went into his filter, or shortly after reading the first few posts (which I criticized) expecting to find mafia. Then I basically ran into post after post where I actually thought he looked really town. Like I _think_ I am not capable of faking this kind of a 180 mid-filter. Maybe I am, but why bother with the scum-stuff to begin with. Like at this point of the game, he's a vaguely viable lynch target later. Also, just for later days, if you end up lynching me. After I posted my "gb is town" thing, he said something like "the buddying is real", which basically confirms him as town. He is always going to flip town this game.
Obviously if you're scum you want as many potential lynch targets as you can which would explain starting with trying to paint him off scummy. Reading through his filter, you figured TownPalmar would not be able to justify scumreading him so you changed your intent to look townie instead.
As for GB always being town, that depends. If you're scum, I agree. If you're town however, I can see a scum GB being cheeky and making comments like that. With how often he's done it this game it could definitely be a deliberate strategy.
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On January 13 2015 00:53 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And your case against Damdred dubious What do you think of Damdred? Do you disagree that he's played this game very much in the background? He's not taken any kind of a leadership role in town and even now, with just a handful of players remaining, almost nothing he has written really stands out. Sure, voting superbia on day 2 builds the case for him being town somewhat (also, remember, I didn't know superbia was mafia when I wrote my stuff on Damdred, as he hadn't flipped). But it all depends on whether or not we think superbia actually had a real chance to die that day. Also, I cba checking, but was geript firmly in the lead? or was Vivax right there? We may have to check that. I think you're right in that he's mostly been in the background. He's been a question mark for me most of the game. He played a good Day 1 where he drew conclusions (albeit the wrong ones initially, town on ritoky/scum on Dr.H), asked a lot of questions and seemed to be on the hunt for information. On Day 2 he was on the right lynch as well but he hasn't been very impactful, no, and that leaves him in the question mark area. He was the second person to get on Superbia after me when there was no idea if it was going to take off or not. The reason he's a question mark for you and literally everyone else in the game,is that Damdred hasn't said or done anything of value throughout the game. Asking questions with no intention of followup isn't at all townie.
Like Marv said, he's pushed Superbia on D2 and he's been pushing LM ever since. Speaking of which, I'd still like to hear your opinion on LM. I'd also like examples of questions from Damdred that you feel were pointless or without followup.
On January 13 2015 00:57 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 31 2014 20:52 Palmar wrote:On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
You helped lynch Geript, a member of our town So what? Being wrong on my first target happens all the time. Weren't you on his wagon too? I made a case, I believed in it, geript's non-response made me want to go through with it. Do you doubt that I believed geript was mafia? Or at least he had a good chance of being one? Of course I doubt it, because I think there's a good chance you're scum. I was on the wagon reluctantly because I felt he was a better lynch than Vivax and it looked like Superbia wasn't going to get lynched when I went to bed. Chicken and egg bro. If you decide I'm mafia and then look at my actions through that lens, we're gonna have a bad time. You should first go read my push on geript, responses to it etc, and THEN you should decide if I am mafia because of it. You cannot scumhunt backwards. That's called guessing.
I always feel like there's two narratives for every person; a Town narrative and a Scum narrative. If you try hard enough either can fit. The problem is that with your filter and approach to the game I feel a scum narrative is more likely to be the case. I'm trying out both lenses but to confront you with the town narrative for your actions wouldn't really help establish my read on you any better.
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On January 13 2015 01:01 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 13 2015 00:51 Palmar wrote:On January 13 2015 00:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 13 2015 00:25 Palmar wrote:Because the closest thing in the thread to an actual accusation, I'm just going to respond to Artanis' poem. Also, he's one of the people I want most to actually talk to, because he's basically stayed away from me throughout the game (it feels like, at least, I've interacted with vivax, gb, marv, sl etc, but him I've sorta never talked to). On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Your case on GB was most curious Don't know what you mean by curious. It's super townie if you know how brains work. If I am mafia, I already know GB's alignment, so why would I bother with the whole "start out piling some scum points on him, pretend to read more, then completely flip my conclusion and call him town". Like I'm not good enough at scum to do that. Now obviously you can argue this, but I'd think that because I have perfect information as mafia, I wouldn't have bothered with the whole changing my mind in the middle of the post/filter read. I think I'd rather have tried to strengthen whichever conclusion I wanted to reach by mostly citing examples pointing in that one direction. Stopping mid-filter when I feel confident he's town after questioning some of his early stuff, is something not many mafia would do. I've expanded on this in an earlier post. It feels to me like you arbitrarily decided he was town halfway through the case when you couldn't find enough to incriminate him with a fairly meaningless post in "I suspect half the players". I find it hard to imagine that you find it hard to imagine for a scum player to say it as much as to go from scumreading to townreading someone, especially after you criticized him for creating a fake tone earlier. After that you suddenly view his posts in a townie light and do a decent job at that, which I suspect is because you know his alignment. I don't doubt that it could be forged. Obviously we're going to disagree on this one. Here's the thing, I am trying to explain what I did when I went for GB. I sort of admit I actually went into his filter, or shortly after reading the first few posts (which I criticized) expecting to find mafia. Then I basically ran into post after post where I actually thought he looked really town. Like I _think_ I am not capable of faking this kind of a 180 mid-filter. Maybe I am, but why bother with the scum-stuff to begin with. Like at this point of the game, he's a vaguely viable lynch target later. Also, just for later days, if you end up lynching me. After I posted my "gb is town" thing, he said something like "the buddying is real", which basically confirms him as town. He is always going to flip town this game. Obviously if you're scum you want as many potential lynch targets as you can which would explain starting with trying to paint him off scummy. Reading through his filter, you figured TownPalmar would not be able to justify scumreading him so you changed your intent to look townie instead.As for GB always being town, that depends. If you're scum, I agree. If you're town however, I can see a scum GB being cheeky and making comments like that. With how often he's done it this game it could definitely be a deliberate strategy. So you believe that a) I read his filter attentively b) I actually changed my mind And that I'm still mafia? I don't know how to argue with this...
I didn't know changing your mind was an exclusively town trait. If so, I'm pretty sure everyone in the game is town and Slam is fucking with us.
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On January 13 2015 01:04 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar do you understand how your play this game hasn't really fitted into either your usual town or mafia frameworks?
Marv can you explain exactly how you usually read Palmar? The interactions between you two have been so weird.
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On January 13 2015 01:10 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 13 2015 00:53 Palmar wrote:On January 13 2015 00:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And your case against Damdred dubious What do you think of Damdred? Do you disagree that he's played this game very much in the background? He's not taken any kind of a leadership role in town and even now, with just a handful of players remaining, almost nothing he has written really stands out. Sure, voting superbia on day 2 builds the case for him being town somewhat (also, remember, I didn't know superbia was mafia when I wrote my stuff on Damdred, as he hadn't flipped). But it all depends on whether or not we think superbia actually had a real chance to die that day. Also, I cba checking, but was geript firmly in the lead? or was Vivax right there? We may have to check that. I think you're right in that he's mostly been in the background. He's been a question mark for me most of the game. He played a good Day 1 where he drew conclusions (albeit the wrong ones initially, town on ritoky/scum on Dr.H), asked a lot of questions and seemed to be on the hunt for information. On Day 2 he was on the right lynch as well but he hasn't been very impactful, no, and that leaves him in the question mark area. He was the second person to get on Superbia after me when there was no idea if it was going to take off or not. The reason he's a question mark for you and literally everyone else in the game,is that Damdred hasn't said or done anything of value throughout the game. Asking questions with no intention of followup isn't at all townie. Like Marv said, he's pushed Superbia on D2 and he's been pushing LM ever since. Speaking of which, I'd still like to hear your opinion on LM. I'd also like examples of questions from Damdred that you feel were pointless or without followup. I need to read LM's filter. The examples of Damdred's weird questions were in my big post on him. Do you really need me to dig it up for you? Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 13 2015 00:57 Palmar wrote:On January 13 2015 00:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 31 2014 20:52 Palmar wrote:On January 12 2015 23:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
You helped lynch Geript, a member of our town So what? Being wrong on my first target happens all the time. Weren't you on his wagon too? I made a case, I believed in it, geript's non-response made me want to go through with it. Do you doubt that I believed geript was mafia? Or at least he had a good chance of being one? Of course I doubt it, because I think there's a good chance you're scum. I was on the wagon reluctantly because I felt he was a better lynch than Vivax and it looked like Superbia wasn't going to get lynched when I went to bed. Chicken and egg bro. If you decide I'm mafia and then look at my actions through that lens, we're gonna have a bad time. You should first go read my push on geript, responses to it etc, and THEN you should decide if I am mafia because of it. You cannot scumhunt backwards. That's called guessing. I always feel like there's two narratives for every person; a Town narrative and a Scum narrative. If you try hard enough either can fit. The problem is that with your filter and approach to the game I feel a scum narrative is more likely to be the case. I'm trying out both lenses but to confront you with the town narrative for your actions wouldn't really help establish my read on you any better. If they're in your case on him I guess I'll reread it myself. God damn, the effort you require of me is enormous. Well fine, as long as you actually accept my answers and reconsider if now maybe the town narrative fits.
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EPT
