EPTTL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells - Page 2
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Vivax
21959 Posts
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Vivax
21959 Posts
December 09 2014 12:42.: Regarding 27ninjabunnies, there are two reasons that make me think she might be town: 1) She easily gathered a ton of votes and the rest of the votes have been scattered around everywhere. This makes me think that the Mafia team is supporting her lynch or at the very least content with it. If that wasn't the case, I think her wagon would have been a bit weaker or at least there would be a competing wagon. Right now it just looks like 27ninjabunnies is heading to be lynched and the Mafia team is happy / doesn't care about it. 2) If Half the Sky is Mafia, I feel it's quite unlikely that 27ninjabunnies is Mafia as well. Pre-flip association, I know, but I don't think scum Half the Sky would easily pile on a scum 27ninjabunnies wagon or that she would first start casually discussing with 27ninjabunnies and refer to her as town. So I don't really think 27ninjabunnies is a good lynch for these reasons. December 09 2014 14:02: I agree that 27ninjabunnies doesn't look good. She also does have more fluff than you. Fluff in itself isn't so bad though, in my opinion. What I was more concerned about is that your posts seem to maintain some appearance of relevance without really having much (if any), whereas 27ninjabunnies has more fluff that's clearly just useless. Generally I've noticed that Mafia tend to make posts more along the lines of your posting style. December 09 2014 19:54. I guess 27ninjabunnies isn't a bad lynch at this rate. It's hard to find anything towny about her other than the easy wagon. December 09 2014 22:02: Maybe I was wrong about HTS. She seems to be actively doing stuff for now so it could be too hasty to lynch her. 27ninjabunnies on the other hand, doesn't look any better than earlier. Mainly for the fact that she defended froggy and then put him on her scumlist anyway when pressured. And townread the people who had stances against her own. Basically just meaningless listing contradicting her other posts. It could be that the scumteam merely doesn't have that much thread presence or is bussing her. ##Unvote ##Vote 27ninjabunnies Like, this doesn't make ANY sense. The reasons for her being scum were there from the start, yet all dismissed just cause so many people found them good and cause of the associative thingy. And when 27nb comes back at December 09 2014 18:07, to explain that iffy for her means null, Xata skips over it in his next posts to progressively get closer to lynching her as his traction on HTS loses strength. It is a BIG deal whether iffy means scummy or means null in someone's opinion. Obviously you can't verify it for sure if it's just an excuse or the truth, but at least it takes some wind out of the former arguments. And at the time when the arguments against bunnies were the strongest, Xata found some very questionable reasons for townreading her. When the time comes where the arguments against bunnies should be put into question given her explanation, he ignores the new information and joins the wagon based on the old information, using it as the main argument. Also notice the use of the word "fluff". "Fluff" in this game has been literally dropping down from the sky from a multitude of players, and I don't see how Xata applies it so selectively to only these two players. I don't want to count the amount of the word "fluff", between being used as bulk of his case against HTS, to being differentiated into useless fluff and fluff with usefuleness (or something like that), to be called "not so bad in itself". The use of the word fluff in here is mostly just an excuse to scumread people or not on a whim and completely arbitrary. You can't measure the amount of fluff, and it has to be seen in context. When HTS posted fluff in her first post, it was scummy. Ninjabunnies had more fluff initially, but it wasn't so bad in itself.Why? Cause more people voted her! Clearly Xata has a blatant double standard here, and the read on NB should progress in the opposite way, if he had rolled town. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
1) She easily gathered a ton of votes and the rest of the votes have been scattered around everywhere. This makes me think that the Mafia team is supporting her lynch or at the very least content with it. If that wasn't the case, I think her wagon would have been a bit weaker or at least there would be a competing wagon. Right now it just looks like 27ninjabunnies is heading to be lynched and the Mafia team is happy / doesn't care about it. It could be that the scumteam merely doesn't have that much thread presence or is bussing her. There is NOTHING in the thread to change one version to the other for Xata. The only thing that changed is that he ran out of breath in his push on HTS, and arbitrarily made something no townie has a way of knowing about into the opposite. First: "The scumteam is bandwagoning on bunnies" Last: "The scumteam is bussing bunnies or not doing anything" How is he supposed to know? Well, he isn't supposed to, but he just writes it one way or another when it's convenient and fits into his version of the game. This is no townie reasoning. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
It's like all you're doing is attacking my cases for....actually what? It's not like you have something better to push behind it that would justify you taking the wind out of other people's sails. And when I asked you about your Xata read after you said I should ask you about a read you skipped over it, only to come back now when you have some more stuff to bitch about when I try to scumhunt. THAT is nitpicking. The timestamps are fine. Now show that you can do something constructive other than nitpicking or I'll make you regret it. After all apparently no one I mention is ever suspicious to you, no reason is good enough, and when you agree with me on something you still don't actually take the stance you claim to agree with, as shown with how you commented on my posts on Kelsier. Keep moving up the scum charts if you want. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
On December 10 2014 14:35 rsoultin wrote: 1. You're wrong. I clearly did give a read here, even if it wasn't one you agreed with. 2. Took the time to actually check what you were saying, because it did hold water provided the timeline you presented was true. 3. Instead of double-checking yourself you're pretending like it's insignificant, when the main point of your read was that his read on 27nb was developing the "opposite" way that it should. Really, though I'm not fond of KSC either, I'm beginning to consider you as scum for being so determined to find reasons to push a weak lynch without taking the time to consider opposing viewpoints. I've considered yours. xP You still only talk about a little part of my case on Xata, plus you don't mention what kita said. It's like you have an agenda of putting stones into my way without actually being interested into figuring out Xatalos, cause then you would weigh in every piece of information. If you're a town with such a trash attitude, go troll somewhere else. What about his argument with the wagon first being mafia driven cause bunnies is town, then being mafia driven cause she's being bussed? Is that something a townie is able to say without knowing ANY alignment? What about his strange stance on fluff, and how he applies a different weight to it all the time? And the main point, if he had a townread on bunnies previously, why is he so eager to skip over her explanation? FTFY: I'm beginning to consider you as scum for being so determined to find reasons to push a | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
Cba to read him thoroughly atm, if you want you can point me to the interesting bits that warrant a read. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
Could you clarify why you thought KSC's plan was an afterthought? I got the opposite feeling. Mainly for these reasons: 1) No scum in their right mind would blatantly bluefish for "setup reasons", then retract the idea a few minutes later... that's very risky play for Mafia and they would almost certainly double-check before proposing a plan like this, especially if he noticed that it was faulty in just a couple of minutes afterwards 2) I think his chain of posts were stupid / risky, but I can more easily believe it coming from over-eager town rather than suicidal scum 3) KSC did actually go after FF after that which leaves me to again think that it probably wasn't simply an afterthought So yeah, I don't really see your point here. Please enlighten me on why you think differently of KSC's play ther How is it risky? Did anyone call him scum just for that? No. So it's clearly not risky. If t was risky and you think it deserves a scumread, how do you explain that you townread him? Well, cause WIFOM, he did something you think is scummy and scum wouldn't do that so he's town. That's literally the reasoning you are using, and it's bad. It's just the same type of reasoning as saying "scum is wagoning on a town bunnies" and later say "scum is bussing bunnies or not caring about saving her" depending on how you read her at a particular moment. It's obvious bad reasoning that you add to find some more arguments for your change of opinion, in lack of better arguments. The chain of posts doesn't suggest at all he was chasing a masterplan there, it only suggests he found out that he was wrong on something and then looked at people without initially having intention to do so. Else he wouldn't have had a reason to claim out loud that he was wrong about something (so he would have had FF go look at the setup and correct him, that would have been a "trap play"). | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
On December 11 2014 01:10 KelsierSC wrote: wrong again. I already explained it and you just choose to ignore it again. It was a specific play I planned. Kush claimed a set up glitch, then said it was a mistake. exactly that. Why would there be any reason for FF to go back and correct a mistake you make if you correct it by yourself, if your plan was for him to go find that mistake? The "plan" how you put it now doesn't make the slightest sense. So then viv shows up and he just kind of bw onto nb by calling me scum but he can't just sheep the read right, he has to make up some reasons, so apparently my scrooge thing was scummy because i am trying to get scrooge to claim and not making a play. Also this is blatantly false. I never called your "plan" scummy. Read more carefully. I call Xatalos scummy cause he read your actions as a plan, not you. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
Don't see a reason for anyone to question you more about something you've corrected yourself. If I say the sky is red, then correct myself and say "no sorry it's blue", why should anyone go look at it more closely and call you out for anything. We need a link to your previous game you're mentioning with quotes etc. to show you're truly imitating that plan in a similar context and not just making something up to fit into the version you're proposing. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
I also need a link to the game you mentioned. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
When I think someone is scum I'll look in their filter for as long as it takes to find the things proving that they are and to convince other people, and when people still don't listen I'll usually get very wordy, or contest the leading lynch. That's how I play town, and how you don't, so I think you're scummy and hence that answers: not sure why you are determined to throw scum on me. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
He talks about a lot of stuff I use against him but leaves the part untouched where I say that he first townreads bunnies for having a wagon on her, then scumreads her for suddenly thinking that scum is bussing her. That's cause he couldn't find an argument against that which is still a pillar in my case. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
Regarding 27ninjabunnies, there are two reasons that make me think she might be town: 1) She easily gathered a ton of votes and the rest of the votes have been scattered around everywhere. This makes me think that the Mafia team is supporting her lynch or at the very least content with it. If that wasn't the case, I think her wagon would have been a bit weaker or at least there would be a competing wagon. Right now it just looks like 27ninjabunnies is heading to be lynched and the Mafia team is happy / doesn't care about it. 2) If Half the Sky is Mafia, I feel it's quite unlikely that 27ninjabunnies is Mafia as well. Pre-flip association, I know, but I don't think scum Half the Sky would easily pile on a scum 27ninjabunnies wagon or that she would first start casually discussing with 27ninjabunnies and refer to her as town. So I don't really think 27ninjabunnies is a good lynch for these reasons. Maybe I was wrong about HTS. She seems to be actively doing stuff for now so it could be too hasty to lynch her. 27ninjabunnies on the other hand, doesn't look any better than earlier. Mainly for the fact that she defended froggy and then put him on her scumlist anyway when pressured. And townread the people who had stances against her own. Basically just meaningless listing contradicting her other posts. It could be that the scumteam merely doesn't have that much thread presence or is bussing her. ##Unvote ##Vote 27ninjabunnies And I don't care how careful you try to formulate your townreads. You threw a bunch of arguments out there for her being town, no matter how many "might be" you put in there. And later these arguments were reversed even in the light of new information from her. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
Overall I'm willing to see where Xata and the other guys I've been calling out will be headed in the next days. Plus this game is just tiring on D1. There's no way anyone who isn't spending all his time on this game can have a good overview of everything going on, I just want this mountain of information to shrink atm, people shitposting didn't help the game. And I don't think that this looks necessarily like a town lynch cause mafia players can simply be passive about it...Or tried to get another lynch but went down in the noise and have been forgotten about. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
On the other hand, if they don't have the branch manager and bunnies knows about it, they also know that a disgruntled worker doesn't have to be in the game. I'd not give weight to the claim but to the play. If you are town try to spend some time convincing us who to lynch instead. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
On December 11 2014 07:04 Trfel wrote: Explanation of 27ninjabunnies vote: I'm currently on page 40. I was definitely not ready for the amount of posts that would be in a game with so few people. But at this rate, I will not be able to catch up in the thread by the voting deadline. I will keep checking the voting thread, and if it seems that 27ninjabunnies comes closer to not being lynched, I will change my vote. Reason for popping up just before the lynch? I've seen your town play and it was impressive, and this game you afked all day long? | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
We had a fast wagon that quickly had a lot of people on it, so scum basically had to do nothing while it looked like bunnies was the only option. We're looking for people that initially "scumhunted", then seemingly disappeared and came back at the end of the day to either stick to bunnies or talk about some other bs. Out of memory I recall bats doing something like that cause I don't recall arguing with him all day long, but he was back just before deadline. Anyone who still tried to find other scum in the middle of the day unpressured while it looked like bunnies was getting lynched gets townie points. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
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Vivax
21959 Posts
On December 11 2014 23:41 Half the Sky wrote: Vivax, since you're bringing up the idea of the "main wagon" what are your thoughts on Koshi's pushing 27NB the way he did? He's attacking a lot of the fluff (namely the manner of NB's rebuttal) though I do see he spent 3-4 posts on the same issue. Kelsier being her only read is a valid point, but it feels like overkill. Is this normal for him? I have never played with him. Koshi at least played the part right, if it was his mafia play. He didn't pretend to have as many scumreads as bats, and confidently pushed bunnies, no real discrepancy between what he claims and what he does there as opposed to bats. I'll use other means of reading him. But bats posted a whole list of people he would lynch and never showed any sort of doubt about where the lynch was heading, if he was making the right choice etc., he was too confident for my taste when he should have at least been wondering if he was making the right choice given his broad spectrum of options. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
I'll hold back judgement on this one as I want to have more time for Koshi. | ||
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