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I'm pretty content to continue yelling against the wall for a little while.
Reading through his filter you really get a sense of him trying to avoid taking stances all over the place and letting others do his work for him.
On October 11 2014 10:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:
sic 'em wave
I'm curious who's around tonight
Obviously the boave is likely a joke, related to my trolly early vote of Jeff but then look below:
On October 11 2014 11:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 10:56 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 10:52 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 11 2014 10:45 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:39 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 10:28 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:23 ketchup wrote:
I honestly would have been less suspicious of Wave if all his post said was to vote ghandi because he is young as shit. Instead he had to color code everything! The color coding is way too strong for me. Wave please QQQQ What about the colour coding makes me suspicious, o delicious condiment? It's too try hard sir! I didn't expect that from you, nor do I think it was completely innocent in it's intention. QQThe Alzadar posts so far are actually the most suspicious because it doesn't really help townies at all while pretending to give out information. The games played especially means nothing despite the effort put in to make it seem that way. Elaborate on this, please. You seem to think that 'trying' is inherently scummy and I'm not following. As for your expectations and my intentions, how would you have any idea of either when you haven't played with me before? This is boring so far. I'm bored. Why aren't people voting for scum? And what scum are these? Jeff? It's going to take more than a sweeping declarative first post saying "vote jeff" to make me want to vote anyone right now. It shouldn't. Sonib what make you of the yung ketchup and his seeming absolute refusal to take any real stance whatsoever? What makes you think I have no real stance? I am just testing the waters, and seeing who responds in what way. I find that much more interesting than pretending that color coding anything helps anyone in game  ^ this basically would have been my response to wave Idk about you wave, but back in my day, we didn't just know who scum were right off the bat. We had to work at it, poke around, dig through trash to figure it out. In all seriousness though, I'm with ketchup on Alzadar's posting. Going so far as to let a league game decide his side? Jeff - why is Wave scum?
Wave - why is Jeff scum?ketchup - do you think Wave's color coding is actually scummy? Or are you just calling it distracting to nitpick?
Scumtactics 101, start shit, don't get hit. A whole bunch of questions, NONE of them actually go anywhere in terms of trying to get information for himself.
Let's play 'count the number of times soniv doesn't take a stance on me:
On October 11 2014 11:31 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 11:12 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 11:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 11 2014 10:56 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 10:52 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 11 2014 10:45 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:39 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 10:28 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:23 ketchup wrote:
I honestly would have been less suspicious of Wave if all his post said was to vote ghandi because he is young as shit. Instead he had to color code everything! The color coding is way too strong for me. Wave please QQQQ What about the colour coding makes me suspicious, o delicious condiment? It's too try hard sir! I didn't expect that from you, nor do I think it was completely innocent in it's intention. QQThe Alzadar posts so far are actually the most suspicious because it doesn't really help townies at all while pretending to give out information. The games played especially means nothing despite the effort put in to make it seem that way. Elaborate on this, please. You seem to think that 'trying' is inherently scummy and I'm not following. As for your expectations and my intentions, how would you have any idea of either when you haven't played with me before? This is boring so far. I'm bored. Why aren't people voting for scum? And what scum are these? Jeff? It's going to take more than a sweeping declarative first post saying "vote jeff" to make me want to vote anyone right now. It shouldn't. Sonib what make you of the yung ketchup and his seeming absolute refusal to take any real stance whatsoever? What makes you think I have no real stance? I am just testing the waters, and seeing who responds in what way. I find that much more interesting than pretending that color coding anything helps anyone in game ^ this basically would have been my response to wave Idk about you wave, but back in my day, we didn't just know who scum were right off the bat. We had to work at it, poke around, dig through trash to figure it out. In all seriousness though, I'm with ketchup on Alzadar's posting. Going so far as to let a league game decide his side? Jeff - why is Wave scum? Wave - why is Jeff scum? ketchup - do you think Wave's color coding is actually scummy? Or are you just calling it distracting to nitpick? I don't think it's nitpicking. I think it was not something I imagined Wave doing as the first post after game started so I naturally am cautious around it. I admit I have not played with Wave, but I feel that post is 100% questionable, and should be pointed out. This is especially compounded by the fact that it was also a really quick vote on someone. So, I called him out on it. Don't let the fact that he did something unexpected color your judgement - posting in a mafia game is completely different. Let what he says color your opinion. @Cixah - trying to decide if wave is just being aggressive townie or taking advantage of the lesser experienced crowd to make a bold play. I'm feeling the former is probably correct - he can be a bloodhound when he wants to.
On October 11 2014 23:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 22:20 WaveofShadow wrote:
I have to read the second half of your post but Alaric you are now officially my number one town read. ^ Alaric, I love your skepticism, don't lose it. Keep in mind, even if Jeff does flip red (assuming he ends up being the lynch target), that does not at all prove Wave's towniness on its own merit - bussing a teammate is a common strategy, and a scum Wave would know how to do it.
Wave's claiming protection was probably the sketchiest thing he's done thus far, but it's at least got viability behind it - if he comes out the gates as a super aggressive townie, pinpoints a scum and goes right for him, you bet your ass Wave will be a top priority scum target.That said, Wave, we are still waiting for you to tell us why Jeff is scum. His posting is standard Jeff, which is unfortunate. I hope he starts taking the game seriously. ____________________ @Cixah: Swaglord is on your scummy list - ok, I agree. He has had bullshit, contentless posts thus far. But so has Jeff. There's not a whole lot to go on either of them, but Jeff is relatively fine in your eyes? Wave being your top read for the one reason you've given is honestly a bit silly. Also - We will not know KP for sure until end of N1, and even then, all we'll know is how many people died. It won't tell us whether they're scum KP, town KP, etc. So we can get a rough idea once there's evidence, but speculating about numbers now, especially this early, isn't that useful. That's all the "hard" thinking I can do until I get some coffee in me.
Just a little sidenote here.
This post comes almost directly after he says Alzadar is his top scumread:
On October 12 2014 00:46 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 00:39 Alzadar wrote:On October 11 2014 21:52 Cixah wrote:
Question for Alzadar: How Town is Wave for you?
Wave is 70% Town. At this point he's really driving the discussion, I don't think he would such a central role if he was scum. I'd like to mention that MoonBear and ComaDose have made only the same kind of "observation with no conclusion" style posts that you all seem suspicious of me for. Which leads me to say - I feel like there must be some scum among those who are suspicious of me: after Wave and Soniv declared their suspicion I became an easy target for people to say "oh I'm suspicious of Alz" without actually contributing anything new. ketchup in particular has focused entirely on Wave and myself (both of us already being under suspicion when he did), and has basically only repeated arguments other people had already said. Ok, so who among your accusers (there really only have been a few) do you believe to be scum? Ketchup was actually fairly early on in the Alzadar and Wave suspicions. Do you think ketchup is scum? If not, who?
Does this look like he's truly trying to learn about Alz's alignment?
Also pretty damning is HE COMPLETELY DROPS ALZADAR FOR THE REAMINDER OF HIS FILTER.
Where did that suspicion on him go exactly?
Like...do I even need to keep going?
Soniv says what he needs to at the time to appease people. Look at his early responses to my grilling him---tosses out a scumread that means absolutely nothing and then drops it. Questions people without any direction whatsoever. I've already spoken about what I think of his vote/push on MB. He didn't even do the majority of the work on it, he just sat on it.
Soniv is absolute primary lynch tomorrow.
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Decent reasoning. I could get behind a Soniv investigation, even if my scum klaxons aren't blaring around him.
Also worth noting: ketchup. Again, largely ignored, no large stances taken. Many, many posts of "Why do you think x is scum" "who are your scumreads". Possibly starting fights, possibly starting conversation, but his volume of posting with little commitment is offputting.
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On October 14 2014 04:54 Requizen wrote:
Decent reasoning. I could get behind a Soniv investigation, even if my scum klaxons aren't blaring around him.
Also worth noting: ketchup. Again, largely ignored, no large stances taken. Many, many posts of "Why do you think x is scum" "who are your scumreads". Possibly starting fights, possibly starting conversation, but his volume of posting with little commitment is offputting.
Soniv and ketchup have had each others' backs throughout. It's difficult because as much as I want to try and draw association there, it only leads to WIFOM. I'm more likely to believe ketchup is town because of how he went about attacking me. His stances are much more aggressive than soniv's to be sure. Let me look a little closer but from what I remember ketchup's questions actually GO somewhere.
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On October 12 2014 04:42 ketchup wrote:
The Cixah bandwagon is too real. Especially when coming from Alzadar and GhandiEagle. Wave is looking more and more townie just because people want to parrot previous arguments against him for badly thought out logic.
Moonbear's post was fairly terror. I hoped he would provide more. So moonbear, who are your top scum now that you know this game isn't rigged? There's no way only one person is scum to you right now right?
Requizen, I'll keep asking until you answer. Who are scum and who are town for you?
Yeah like look here. Gives Jeff and Alz as earlier scumreads just before, sticks with them. Keeps on top of you. Keeps on top of me. Constantly re-evaluating (at this point, anyway. Was really annoyed at his bias towards me later on but that doesn't make him scum).
Ketchup pretty town imo.
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soniv did ride the moonbear ban to the finish line. actually he voted for moonbear twice but no one else. who was his main read between them?
i feel wave and LT being townie after it looks like they put a lot of effort in near the finish time. and it turns out we were right to doubt our decision. even if LT is a little trollish often.
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On October 14 2014 04:41 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 04:31 Alzadar wrote:MoonBear (6): jcarlsoniv, Lord Tolkien, AsmodeusXI, GhandiEAGLE, Alaric, ketchup, AsmodeusXI, WaveofShadow, jcarlsoniv, Cixah So who voted for MoonBear and why? On October 12 2014 05:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:y'know what? fuck it ##vote: MoonBearYou can, in fact, continue on the "he said, she said", that's how this game works. And y'know what you've said? Nothing. But you, more than any of the others who've done the same, come off as faux-contribution. Moreso than Alzadar. Asking about cops, trying to discern the setup, having 0 conclusions. THE BEAR'S BLOOD WILL DRAIN RED + Show Spoiler + Soniv was first here. This was still pretty early and I think he had some solid reasoning, it's similar to why I suspected MB. Later he unvotes because he thinks MoonBear is going to be modkilled but revotes when MoonBear appears. I don't mind Soniv sticking to his guns here, MB was definitely suspicious. Dunno what I think of Soniv being completely unswayed by Wave's blue assertion. Tolkien was next, seems like a straightforward vote. Was still early in the day and the other main candidate at the time was himself, so not surprising he would vote the other way. Later he was a big MoonBear defender. On October 13 2014 03:59 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Sticking with Moonbear because I feel bad about no-votes, but I'm not 100% convinced.
##Vote: Moonbear Ghandhi next, he just completely jumped on the bandwagon. Voted Wave early, which obviously wasn't going to happen, then hopped on the MB train and sat there happily till night. Asmo felt it was between Ghandhi and MB, Ghandhi posted a wall that convinced him a bit so he flipflopped back to MoonBear. Doesn't seem too suspicious. Alaric posts fucking massive walls, wtf. He voted and then said this: On October 13 2014 07:13 Alaric wrote:On the other hand, just because it's Moonbear's first game doesn't mean he's not maybe better at this kind of things than you. An issue for me here is that I have no idea what "serious" Moonbear is like, since he's always that jolly cheerful fellow with us in the off-topic thread (heck, even when he warns me it's more like "PSA from your friendly neighbour"!), which muddies my expectations. But in the end I said I'd rather vote for someone dubious than an afk*, so I'm looking at him right now. Moonbear, what that means is that you're close to a default lynch than a 100% scum read for me, so if you wanna stay alive it's up to you buddy! Be convincing, preferable before I go to bed.  I think most can agree that MB was not convincing that he wasn't scum. Which maybe he thought was alright since he was Vanilla. You've all discussed Wave already. Cixah's post is weird: On October 13 2014 08:50 Cixah wrote:
##Vote Moonbear
I guess this is how this is going to down? I don't like the lynch based on what i've seen, I even think Ghandi is still the better pick even if he claimed vanilla town. I don't buy that claim either TBH, We'll have to wait and see after the night. You think Ghandhi is a better pick, so you vote MoonBear when it was still within a vote of being Jeff? Obviously the IC claim makes it hard to suspect Cixah but you better believe if it doesn't get announced tomorrow that you are gonna swing. From all that, Ghandhi is the most suspicious. Either completely bandwagony Townie or scum happy to sit on a mislynch without really debating the issue. This is a good post. I agree with many of these deductions. The biggest point in the context of this post is clearly Cixah. I hadn't paid much attention to how he posted into his vote, but in this light, if he doesn't flip IC, he's immediately suspicious. You don't go with your #2 to kill someone you're not sure of.
My reasoning for the vote of moonbear was strictly due to time. I couldn't come up with a case strong enough to convince myself at the time that Ghandi was a better lynch. I may have counted wrong but I was fairly certain that Moonbear had 5 at the time to Ghandi's three. If I couldn't convince myself that it was a better lynch what chance did I have of convincing anyone else?
I will flip green tomorrow.
I do not want protection for tonight, nor do I think it's a good idea. If there is anyone in the thread that probably should have it would be Alaric, Asmo, or Wave.
This game is akward, every time I ask myself who I think Scum is I get 5 potential different answers and Non of them have over lapping people with exception to maybe ghandi, but even then that plays on if you think he's just posting like a jackass or if he's trying to just distract and save face at the moment.
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No protection for me 6ah? Muh heart.
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Yeah so I just realized a quarter of the posts in this thread belong to me. At the risk of not much discussion occurring in my absence, I'm done until after deadline. You guys can keep it up. I bereave.
In case I die, scumreads are
Soniv
Asmo
Look into Coma/Alz/Jeff
Null on owb but leaning town. Also on LT---LT SHOULD be town but lord has his posting been shit today.
mordek/ketchup/Req/Cixah/Alaric
Don't let anyone fall off the radar.
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If I have to boil everything down and settle on on #1 scum read it's Ghandi. He was quick on Cixah wagon which admittedly I was a part of but I know my reasons but he didn't give his. He also hopped on the MoonBear wagon and peaced out except for one long post that changed Asmo's mind but meh.
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On October 14 2014 05:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah so I just realized a quarter of the posts in this thread belong to me. At the risk of not much discussion occurring in my absence, I'm done until after deadline. You guys can keep it up. I bereave.
In case I die, scumreads are
Soniv
Asmo
Look into Coma/Alz/Jeff
Null on owb but leaning town. Also on LT---LT SHOULD be town but lord has his posting been shit today.
mordek/ketchup/Req/Cixah/Alaric
Don't let anyone fall off the radar.
You let OWB fall off the radar
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On October 14 2014 05:09 ComaDose wrote:
soniv did ride the moonbear ban to the finish line. actually he voted for moonbear twice but no one else. who was his main read between them?
i feel wave and LT being townie after it looks like they put a lot of effort in near the finish time. and it turns out we were right to doubt our decision. even if LT is a little trollish often.
Nobody. He unvoted MB because it seemed like MB would be modkilled, but then when MB voted he hopped back on.
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Jeff. Just fyi, you're going to have to post. Like alot alot. Or else.
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That Coma and OWB are more useful should speak tu o your position right now.
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See Wave, I can't get dinner without the thread exploding. x_x You guys are hard to follow simply because I'm slow to post so if I try while everyone's talking I'll miss a bunch/have to lengthen the post. Let's go anyway.
On October 14 2014 04:57 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 04:54 Requizen wrote:
Decent reasoning. I could get behind a Soniv investigation, even if my scum klaxons aren't blaring around him.
Also worth noting: ketchup. Again, largely ignored, no large stances taken. Many, many posts of "Why do you think x is scum" "who are your scumreads". Possibly starting fights, possibly starting conversation, but his volume of posting with little commitment is offputting. Soniv and ketchup have had each others' backs throughout. It's difficult because as much as I want to try and draw association there, it only leads to WIFOM. I'm more likely to believe ketchup is town because of how he went about attacking me. His stances are much more aggressive than soniv's to be sure. Let me look a little closer but from what I remember ketchup's questions actually GO somewhere.
I don't think it means much though, because Tolkien and you have had each other's back in a way and it doesn't stop others from because either of you (rarely both, I'd even point out).
Superficial read of the situation:
- Wave and Tolkien both think they're both town, but the other do a poor job of it, and they're not followed/supported much because of the antagonising/aggressive way they go about it. Tolkien is a lot less afraid of throwing votes than Wave.
- Wave and Soniv (hereafter Daddy and Mommy) got torn over the Moonbear situation, to the point that they went from agreeing with each other to Daddy wanting Mommy dead. Mommy is being shifty, antagonising Daddy much but never voting against him nor even accusing him overtly. It's a bit of a passive-aggressive, elephant in the room thing where Mommy never says "scum" but keeps nagging Daddy (and the "vote prude" post doesn't hold because for all intents and purposes it's the same as if he did).
I'm not liking this situation, and I feel like shying away from it. Not because it's an established bandwagon this time, but because it's do damn confusing.
If I commit to that love triangle, I can't say for sure when, or even if, I'll be able to reach a satisfactory conclusion. Moonbear ended up being kind of a "default" vote for me (the "less bad" choice while I'd rather vote against someone positively sure of) and it's not something I want to repeat, as it holds higher risks of a mislynch.
It's kind of like with lurkers: you have no idea if they're scum, you just operate under the assumption that they don't help town anyway. At the moment, I'm having trouble discerning whether or not Tolkien/Wave/Soniv are trying to help town in some convoluted way that I can't grasp.
+ Show Spoiler [Random note] +Reading Soniv's filter made me read his posts in his voice. This game.
That they're all vets doesn't help because it means they've got some experience, and even if they aren't "masterminds" like Wave said I don't want to end up second-guessing and WIFOMing myself over my read of the situation.
TL;DR: I don't think lynching any of them will resolve the situation, unless he flips red. At best it would reduce the clutter in the thread.
I'd rather focus on people I think would be easier to read through, eg. Asmodeus/ComaDose/mordek/Alzadar, so when the time comes to vote I can be confident instead of always wondering if I made the right read.
The fact that that block doesn't post much also means it's easier to pick a lurker/non-contributor lynch from it than from the 3 geezers (and although it's possible that they're all townies and scum is owb/req/ghandi or something, I feel more confident about saying so about the 2nd group).
That's not to say either that they won't have to be addressed. They will. But I feel that the probability of a fuck-up with them is so high (and we already mislynched) that even if I have my opinions about them I don't want to get near them at the moment.
And as you can see this is a situation that can very easily change during the night, which is why I wanted to keep my reads to myself until the actions are resolved (I haven't said everything but there's certainly enough that scum could use to confuse me).
Another thing that'd annoy me is how frisky people are toward making accusations or calling people out, outside of the tsundere league, but that'd sound a bit hypocritical from me considering I've basically spent the night saying "wait day 2 for me to take my shots". I will however press whoever hasn't been assertive enough for me once I come clear—especially in the "2nd block" I mentioned.
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I don't think it means much though, because Tolkien and you have had each other's back in a way and it doesn't stop others from accusing either of you (rarely both, I'd even point out).
Fuck that, I even proof-read the main body thrice.
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I think one of Wave, Tolkien, and Soniv are likely to be scum. .
Wave:
I'm fairly sure I've made it known that I dislike his play style this game, and that it actually seems to hurt town sometimes. I have a strong suspicion about him that I cannot shake off despite how helpful he is being at times. Despite that, his line of thought and line of questioning actually lines up fairly well with mine. I can get behind questioning/pressuring Soniv and Asmo more. Again, I cannot shake off the strong suspicions so he is still here.
Tolkien:
I think he is not always forthcoming with his reasoning or reads, and just wants to stir stuff up. That might help him, but it doesn't help the rest of us. Of the three, I had him in scum list first, but have actually gone up and down with him. I think the biggest reason he is not scum is his carefree attitude. It's frustrating for me, but I think he just doesn't care too much if you can't follow him. Similar to Wave, he employs an attitude of "If you can't see why I'm right, then you are wrong, and I don't care for it". I feel like scum would be a lot less carefree? As in, I imagine it is really difficult to play like he is as a scummy role. Of course, I could easily be wrong because people are really versatile.
Lastly, Soniv:
I think of the three, he's actually hard to read. He went from being very active the first 24hours or so, to being fairly quiet from then on. It looked like he was lurking a bit, and his posts weren't so great despite Wave trying to pressure him to post. I think it's reasonable to be wary of Wave, but there was a huge shut down between soniv and Wave somewhere. I think soniv can be looked into as well.
(To respond to Wave's post above: I don't think I am protecting him, but he was one of the very few people who saw what I was seeing in regards to Wave. I felt like this was him trying to pocket me. I guess it worked because for some reason Wave thinks I have defended soniv/ "have his back" which I don't think is true at all. In fact, I quick voted Soniv exactly for trying to pocket me(I didn't explain this at the time because I felt it would tell Soniv too much).)
If you disagree with the above list, I do have some slightly less priority scum for you(which is to say, I don't think the more experienced players will die day 2 or be lynchable):
Req:
His 180 turn from day 1 to night 1 is confusing to me. I do think most of his write up posts from this night stage aren't that great. I think his Day 1 play where he pretended to be newbie is dangerous. The problem to me was the blue hunting newb play. To me that's a huge red flag no matter who does it. I will not forget it. I just don't understand the motivation for this especially when he seems so confident now in night 1.
I also disagree with a lot of his reads. They make me feel like Req isn't genuine in his write ups. I don't see at all how Alaric fits a scummy profile, and I don't see Alaric making moves to push votes on people. Alaric gives his own reads and sticks to them. Honestly, I'm also unsure why he feels I am not town. I think I've been really straightforward at how I'm playing this game, and for him to try to seriously say I might be scummy is kinda backwards. On the other hand, he somehow sees Asmo leaning towards town? I don't get that.
I added a lot more to this after seeing the newest posts. He seems to be defending Soniv, which to me is an association I dislike. Since I feel very strongly that one of the above three are scummy, and now Req defends one of them despite pretty good information from Wave. I think it's another minus for Req. I think the earlier "reads" were to try to get us to open up to him, so his defense of his partners looks cleaner, but it still looks dirty to me. Similar to Soniv, I think he jumped on the Wave bandwagon because of other reasons than actually believing it.
Asmo:
owb pointed out a good point here. The after lynch post was fairly over dramatic. I think most people in the game would have reacted with more like "yea, that really wasn't unexpected." Getting a day 1 scum lynch is really difficult, and I don't see any reason to over react. Mostly, I feel like the post was there just to be posted. He hasn't really spoken up too much yet.
Comadose:
Still hasn't done anything. I dislike his play so far as it is just afkmode or lurking. He doesn't give reads despite saying he will. Compare this to owb who gave town small new information that people hadn't pointed out yet. I feel much better with owb than coma even though both have had similar thread interactions. I have a feeling Coma will keep lurking because people aren't making enough of an issue about it. So again, I will ping out coma here.
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Also a point I forgot to mention when thinking about assertiveness, throwing votes around, and most notably the fact that Soniv accuses way all but in words: can we ##Vote during the Night or is that reserved for Day periods?
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On October 14 2014 06:21 Alaric wrote:
Also a point I forgot to mention when thinking about assertiveness, throwing votes around, and most notably the fact that Soniv accuses way all but in words: can we ##Vote during the Night or is that reserved for Day periods?
There's no voting at night:
On October 13 2014 09:01 Dandel Ion wrote:
It is now Night 1. You have 24 hours to submit any nightactions you might have by PMing them to me. Y'all may talk normally in the thread during night, but there's no voting or stuff.
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Mo you cant vote at night.
Also ketchup, congrats. 10 points to Ravenclaw.
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Now, if there was one person who could reveal wave (and myself's) alignment through a lynch, who would you press?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.brendazguiberson.com/images/books/moonbear-b.jpg)
