EPT[I] TLLOLOTGDTM - Page 2
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
That said, even though ketchup is the one pushing back on Wave's play the most, I also think he's town. I can see how Wave's play could seem abrasive and confusing to newer players so I think ketchup is just seeing it as scum play even though sometimes it takes a strong hand to lead the town in the right direction. As far as scum goes I currently believe Asmo is scum. He's been fairly vocal but I don't think he's really contributed much of note. His actions around the lynch just seems a little off too. He switched off Ghandi just because of his long impassioned post that didn't really have that much substance. I think he felt comfortable pushing MB because it was clear a lot of people agreed it was a fine lynch and he could easily fall back on the defense of "he was a lurker anyway" when MoonBear flipped town. He did push MB early, but that was done to call him out for being a lurker which, again, can easily be defended. Pushing lurkers is important but it can also be a tactic for scum to actively look like they are doing town work. Also I don't like his post after the lynch. Just seems like he's trying to play up the fact he's a noob and his actions should be pardoned because he went about the first night wrong. Just rubbed me the wrong way. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 13 2014 12:37 Lord Tolkien wrote: Anything else? Nothing really else of note. Seemed like a pretty standard Day 1 from the mafia games I played. A lot of name calling and people trying their name, people calling out lurkers, ect. Had I been caught up with the game by lynch time I would have gone ahead with Wave and switched my vote. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 13 2014 14:01 ketchup wrote: How do you feel about tolkien? He has been active and fairly good to look into. What about Soniv? He has also made enough posts to get a feel for him I also agree with your view about Asmo's after lynch post. It felt very forced in an overly dramatic way. First impression of Tolkien was pretty scummy, but I think he's turned his play around. The biggest thing that makes me think he's town was how he was pushing for the random vote. It was pretty clear MB was the prime lynch candidate so if LT was mafia he could have just let him die. That would be a pretty ballsy play to give up a guaranteed town kill and risk a mafia kill just for the sake of looking town, regardless of the odds. Soniv I'm less sure about. He pushed for MB pretty hard and was sure he'd flip scum. Kinda like I said with Asmo, it's an easily dependable lynch because he was mostly afk and the lynch could be justified. Also Wave and Soniv have been pretty combative in this game and I think that's distracting the town a lot. I've already said I think Wave is town so this could be a scum play from Soniv trying to distract Wave from making meaningful contribution. I mean, look at his last couple posts, clearly this game is frustrating Wave (unless that's some next level mind games from Wave, but like I said I think he's helped the town more than not so far). | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 00:15 WaveofShadow wrote: 'Proof' I dunno I just have to decide if I'm annoyed enough with how people in this game have been playing to let you all attempt to lynch me, lose the game but be vindicated, or whether I actually care more about winning. Probably the latter. Well if you have that attitude in Day 2 you're negating my main defense of you that you're actually meaningfully helping the town :p I think you're getting overly frustrated because you're playing the game with so many newbies. This is not an easy game but just shutting down isn't going to help town win. Sometimes you need to explain to them why they are wrong. For example, being defensive doesn't necessarily mean he's scum. It's pretty much required in this game with how often people will go after you. If you go back and actually look at Wave's Day 1 play it doesn't really seem scummy. He tries to guide the town and the newbies kind of just spit in his face. Honestly I see why he feels discouraged, but I don't think it's time to give up yet. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 01:14 Alaric wrote: Now you sound like day 1 Req.  Other than that... welp. I was going to feel bad about lynching Moonbear (although more because his post upon returning seemed to imply RL stuff in the way of him playing) but then there was this Isaac-styled Night post and I had to laugh. Damnit Dandel. I still stand by my choice not to switch my vote, not because I necessarily think Ghandi is town too but because of the mess that discussion caused. I've got some opinions, but there's potential for them to drastically change once night actions are revealed so I'll keep the analysis/"update" for tomorrow. As for what happened in-between, few things I'd like to point out: Alzadar, not that I think you defending Wave is suspicious, but at this point I don't think it'll bring much. Since our goal isn't to keep the whole town alive but to lynch scum, it's better for us to accuse than to protect. The exception is when we're close to the deadline and we believe the current lynch is a contributing certified-town; the next deadline is 50+ hours away and I personally don't think Wave's in any real danger to be lynched, so we're better off letting that slide for now.  Cixah is most likely certified townie. If I understand the roles well, as scum the best he could do would be to convince a vigilante to shoot a townie tonight, then get lynched day 2 (a poisoner would be able to cancel his kill night 2 upon seeing Cixah flip red). That means we can be sure of Cixah's intentions whenever he posts, and there's never going to be any point to challenge them. However that doesn't mean that everything he says is right. I'm not saying I find your reads useless or wrong Cixah, I just want to remind people so as to reduce the chances of sheeping/bandwagoning using your certified status as an excuse. Wave, as the post I quoted indicates, you're acting a bit contrary to what I expected from you-especially because you're a vet and you've probably dealt with mafia noobs already. Could be you having a lot on your plate lately (you seemed to imply so in the offtopic GD) and I can understand that. However, if you're feeling frustrated because you're getting your experience challenged by the very ignorants you're trying to raise properly, think of it as training for the pebble's teen years. Could also be you exaggerating (because you still don't like the way we play) to amplify the whole situation and get bigger reactions from us. Your and especially Tolkien's behaviour over day 1 made me more aware of these possibilities. In that case I'm wondering what kind of reaction you're trying to cause exactly. (For the record I'm leaning toward the latter, also because being paranoid seems like a healthy mindset atm, I just wanted to make the joke. At least I didn't accuse you of WIFOMing us with the "do you think I'm good enough to mastermind you all?" instead. ;p) I'm a bit perplexed by the association "I pay too much attention to Wave" => "Wave is scummy". I mean, he can certainly try to manipulate people in that direction, but whether or not you fall for it depends on you more than on him, don't you think? Just a quick observation, I agree with your intention to broaden who you're looking at (waiting for a bit more Coma/mordek myself, now that owb came out the woodwork). (On that topic, filters are weird. I looked at everyone's length after people mentioned Soniv said "enough" because I thought he wasn't very present, and he's actually got 5 pages. Oo And I only have 2 myself, despite feeling like I spammed.) Fuck that post ends up revolving a bunch around Wave in the end, although indirectly. Whatever, I still think my points have value so here it is. Seems a little odd you call out Alzadar for defending Wave when I've arguably been defending him much harder. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 02:25 mordek wrote: Why are we talking about different games and numbers? This sounds like scum activity. Nah it's actually pretty important. If there was 4 scum instead of 3 it would completely change the way we could start looking at scum relationships. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 03:10 mordek wrote: It's not important right now. This tells us nothing of who are next lynch target should be me. We really should stop talking about it. Personally I think all this conversation does is give scum an opportunity to act ignorant of their numbers. Well we're still in the night phase so depending on who dies a lot can change in regards to who the next lynch target should be. Obviously there's still value in some discussion, but I think you're overreacting to this being a scum play. I'd rather have it sorted out now that later personally. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 04:02 WaveofShadow wrote: That's not true in the slightest. Scum are happy to secure a mislynch since it's often very difficult to specifically pin it on any one person. Hell I don't think Soniv can take credit for MB going down on his own at all, simply the standing out factor is that he stood his ground. You can even look at that either way saying 'oh well he must be town because he stood his ground even in the face of a mislynch and the potential for him looking bad---no scum would want that' 'or 'he must be scum because the lynch was showing the potential of being carried elsewhere by wave/people who switched to Jeff (Note to self: Have another good look at the Jeff wagon) so he stood his ground to keep it there.' Both options are equally likely to me--people have been calling me scum for trying to head lynches on people---do I look like I'm afraid to take any heat? The MB vote is why I've been slightly suspicious about Soniv and Asmo. It was an easy bandwagon because MB had been lurking. You can easily deflect the attention by just claiming the lynch made sense at the time due to his play style. It's just easily dependable and gives scum an early chance to get an easy kill without raising too much suspicion. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 08:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote: also OWB is lurking so fucking much, holy shit pls post dude Holy shit I might just lynch Jeff for this post. I was more active than him during the first half of the night phase and then he comes out of no where and makes this post. Which fine, I've been away for a lot of the game, but I had also posted this before On October 14 2014 04:42 onlywonderboy wrote: I have to go to work now so I'll be gone for most of the evening. I should be able to check back in tonight after the night phase ends and see what's going on. If not I'll definitely be able to catch up during my morning class tomorrow. You even reading the thread? It's fine that you were away because of real life responsibilities, but I'm scum for it? Okay. ##Vote: GhandiEAGLE | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 10:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Now You're assuming me blaming you at all is a post attempting to make you mad. This was the case in the first 24 hours. This was not the case after that. "If youre not helping town youre against it." And with that attitude you will have lost four townies before even getting on the right track. Don't be an idiot, we need a good lynch tonight. My last post in OT before my read post in Maf thread was over 5 hours ago. And they were throwaway posts I was able to add in between classes. I have no idea how that reflects on my circumstances. You're clearly trying to go for my throat here, but you also ignored my question while in 5 minutes being the first to respond to LT's death. It was immediately with a vote for me, quick and dry. It was also a massive flip from who you were suspecting earlier. I don't know how this isn't completely suspicious to some people, but frankly Wave is playing you guys. Maybe not because he's scum, but he's wrong and posting inconsistent things combined with claims that aren't actually supported. Oh and he either ignores all my questions, or sweeps them aside in order to keep the target pointed on me. Not sure how he takes Wave's textbook definition of good mafia play and turns it into a negative...Also he goes onto trying to make reads once it's clear discrediting Wave isn't going to work. On October 14 2014 11:10 GhandiEAGLE wrote: + Show Spoiler + Gonna hold off voting Coma for awhile, it doesn't really trigger any discussion. He's more of a fallback if nobody gains traction. Asmo been super lurking as well, he says he's going to post something soon-ish tho so I'm holding off there too. Alzadar really shaped up his posting recently, I think he's trying to prod people into talking. If anything he's being almost too guarded in his questions to people. Maybe to keep suspicion off of him? Will watch that. As of right now hes town to me though. Cixah is clearly guilty. No other possible conclusion. Also OWB is really escaping a lot of notice here. Clearly hes just more lurky than Coma. But seriously, that's suspect as well. Req says town to me from his posts, I dont see anything sinister, just struggling to adjust to the game at the beginning (I can relate). Wave, I think you're completely wrong, and your arguments make little sense (or just none at all), but I think you have good points said in your defense, and that's enough to put you right around where Soniv is on my scumscale. Asmo is still my #1 suspect because of the shittypost-bandwagon-lurker combination, but again, he says he's gonna post soon, so I'll give him some breathing room. Alaric and Ketchup are pretty clearly town to me. They have long, thoughtful posts that, while not always correct or well-reasoned, steer us into good discussion and prevents us from tunnel-visioning (except that one crusade Ketchup had about Wave). Wave also seems really desperate to vehemently defend himself when his livelihood is even slightly threatened. But im still holding off. I don't feel like he really made any sort of useful insight despite the length of his post. I can basically sum up the entire post saying lurkers are scummy and people that contribute aren't scummy (unless you are Wave). Also we already criticized Req for just putting out a list of thoughts on everyone (although maybe he didn't read that post :p). So in general I'm just not a huge fan of his play so far into Day 2. That said it's early and I'm not locked into this vote. I've mentioned my suspicions of Asmo before so I'm interested to hear what he has to say once he gets back into the game. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 15 2014 00:17 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I think, in terms of hours, it is pretty late. He only really actually started talking as soon as Soniv began a bandwagon against him. I think you're pushing too hard simply based on timing. There are still well over 24 hours in this day phase so I don't think we need to call people out for starting to post now. There was pressure on Coma before the Soniv post so honestly if he continued to lurk it would have made him look even more suspicious. I'm not sure I agree with Alzadar that this has cleared him of suspicion though, hopefully he continues to stay active. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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