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Hello TL Mafia players!
Around the start of this year I made the Java program for creating somewhat balanced "normal" setups of roles ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/436988-automatic-balance-tester ). It probably hasn't seen a huge amount of use (since the hosts are mostly pretty experienced players anyway and better judges of balance than a simple algorithm), but it was quite fun to create it. And maybe it has helped some hosts - at least it was interesting to discuss about balance in the feedback thread for the program.
A few months ago I had a university course for creating a simple database and a website to make use of it. I decided to name my project "MafiaTools" and to make it something potentially useful for Mafia players. Originally I had various ideas for what to do, but I ended up with a simple feature: a note application for keeping track of each player in a game of Mafia - specifically their posting and things related to role claims / usage.
I finished the course already some time ago, but it wasn't yet quite ready for actual use. In the recent days I've been making changes to make the website more practically usable and now it should be ready for actual use.
Of course I haven't really used *that* much time on the project and there's certainly always room for improvement. If you have suggestions, please share them in this thread. My studies will be starting pretty soon though, so I may not have time to make major changes in the near future.
In any case I decided that this should be a good time to share the website for testing out with actual users (people on this forum playing real games of Mafia). I've done a bit of testing myself already and it feels like reasonably useful especially at the start of a game. Later on it tends to become less useful as the reads become stronger and fewer people remain alive.
Here's the website: http://t-teesalmi.users.cs.helsinki.fi/MafiaTools/
Registering is as simple as entering a username and password. The password is hashed with PBKDF2 so it's impossible for anyone to find out what password you use for the website. On the other hand, if you forget your own password, it's also impossible to recover your account. That's why I'd recommend using a reasonably simple password.
Once you've registered, you can create games and then add players to those games. The game view includes the players' names as well as various pieces of information about them (points, play notes and role notes).
Points: Kind of a town/mafia ranking based on your own opinion. The players in the game view are ordered according to these points and they can help you to get a "bigger picture" of how suspicious each player in the game is.
Play notes: This is where you write notes about each player's posting style, relations to other players, voting patterns and stuff like that. You can also insert HTML to this text field (things like bold <b>text</b> or links). There's a also a specific button to conveniently enter HTML links into this text field.
Role notes: This is where you write notes about each player's bluetells, claimed roles, role usage and stuff like that. You can also insert HTML to this text field (things like bold <b>text</b> or links). There's a also a specific button to conveniently enter HTML links into this text field.
Not sure how useful this will be, but it should be worth at least trying out as a learning experience.
Huge thanks to raynpelikoneet for helping with the testing and for making numerous suggestions for the website! Also thanks to gonzaw for helping with the early phase of this project.
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On August 27 2014 04:22 kushm4sta wrote:
why did you use java
Haha :D Why not?
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cause if you are on a mac you have to use safari
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Hm. It works just fine on iPhone so I don't think you even need to have Java installed?
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I also tested it with Firefox on my Macbook Air and it worked fine. Are you sure it doesn't work outside of Safari for you?
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Well, testing this would naturally work best while playing an actual game. Next games coming up seem to be the Cell + Mission games. So if any of the players in those games want to use it, that could be good.
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I'll give it a try and can post thoughts on it once the game's over if you want. I haven't looked into it yet but one basic question:
Is it possible for other people to search for other people who have registered? Just from a smurfs point of view, do I have to be afraid of people looking at the email I signed up with? Can I just sign up with my real accountname from TL?
Oh don't even need an email but the question still remains for the name I register with
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On August 27 2014 07:54 Professor Apathy wrote:
I'll give it a try and can post thoughts on it once the game's over if you want. I haven't looked into it yet but one basic question:
Is it possible for other people to search for other people who have registered? Just from a smurfs point of view, do I have to be afraid of people looking at the email I signed up with? Can I just sign up with my real accountname from TL?
Oh don't even need an email but the question still remains for the name I register with
There's no way to view the usernames except by looking directly at the database information, of which only me and raynpelikoneet should have the knowledge of doing currently. I could completely disable the option of doing that too if you're worried about information leaks? Probably I should just in case. Passwords are 100% impossible to look for though since they're hashed.
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No need to disable that if that's the case. As long as it's not out in public à la "people online right now: XYZ" or "newest registered: XYZ". There shouldn't be an issue as it should be impossible to link people who are currently playing on TL in whatever game and people on your site anyways. Unless of course I happen to be one the first guys to sign up and it were to be out in the open 
Just asked to make sure of it.
first suggestion: When registering, ask for the password twice and only accept it when it's identical. I found myself typing it 5 times to make sure I don't mistype with it being lost if I typo'ed
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On August 27 2014 09:21 Professor Apathy wrote:
No need to disable that if that's the case. As long as it's not out in public à la "people online right now: XYZ" or "newest registered: XYZ" there shouldn't be an issue. Just asked to make sure of it.
Haha OK  I think I'll disable it just in case in the near future though. For example I accidentally saw your "real" username when I just went to check the database. It would be bad if an actual game was screwed because one of the players found their way into the database contents or something like that.
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On August 27 2014 09:21 Professor Apathy wrote:No need to disable that if that's the case. As long as it's not out in public à la "people online right now: XYZ" or "newest registered: XYZ". There shouldn't be an issue as it should be impossible to link people who are currently playing on TL in whatever game and people on your site anyways. Unless of course I happen to be one the first guys to sign up and it were to be out in the open Just asked to make sure of it. first suggestion: When registering, ask for the password twice and only accept it when it's identical. I found myself typing it 5 times to make sure I don't mistype with it being lost if I typo'ed
Haha yeah that's actually a good addition. Btw you should maybe make a new post instead of editing the old post since it's not as easy to notice you updating that post.
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On August 27 2014 08:38 Xatalos wrote:
There's no way to view the usernames except by looking directly at the database information, of which only me and raynpelikoneet should have the knowledge of doing currently.
I am pretty sure i do not have the knowledge to do this or if i do i do not know about it. ^^
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On August 27 2014 23:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 08:38 Xatalos wrote:
There's no way to view the usernames except by looking directly at the database information, of which only me and raynpelikoneet should have the knowledge of doing currently. I am pretty sure i do not have the knowledge to do this or if i do i do not know about it. ^^
I thought you did but OK Nvm then.
In any case, I just disabled access to view the database contents. Now it shouldn't be possible to fetch any information from the database (at least with any reasonable ease). I can temporarily enable access if really needed, but I think it's better if I (or anyone else) can't accidentally see something they shouldn't. And I don't really even *need* to look at the database at this point since I've finished working on the database stuff.
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second suggestion: Add more input fields for the "add player" option so that you can add a bunch at once and don't have to do the same thing 15 or 30 times. From a pure aesthetics point of view having 30 input fields on one page is probably overkill but if you could add 5 seperate people at once that'd be already a bunch more comfy.
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On August 28 2014 00:29 Professor Apathy wrote:
second suggestion: Add more input fields for the "add player" option so that you can add a bunch at once and don't have to do the same thing 15 or 30 times. From a pure aesthetics point of view having 30 input fields on one page is probably overkill but if you could add 5 seperate people at once that'd be already a bunch more comfy.
Yeah, it's a bit inconvenient to enter all the player names at once if there are a lot of them. I actually tried some sort of a multiple name input system earlier (when the structure of the database was still quite different) but ran into technical difficulties. Now it would be easier to implement though so I might look into it. Another idea I've been thinking about is a button that enters all the player names on your clipboard into the database (so you could basically just copy-paste the playerlist from the OP of a game).
I'll probably implement your first suggestion tonight and the second one I'm not exactly sure how I'll go about doing it yet, but I'll try to do something about the issue.
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On August 28 2014 03:56 kushm4sta wrote:
you shoudl add a captcha
:D:D:D
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On August 28 2014 03:56 kushm4sta wrote:
you shoudl add a captcha
Did you get it working btw?
And yeah I guess... Although I wonder who would be bored enough to start botting my website.
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On August 28 2014 06:01 kushm4sta wrote:
i dont have a mac
Why did you talk about Mac stuff then? >.>
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bad experiences with java not on my pc though. Mostly I talked about it because I was bored.
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Professor Apathy's first suggestion has been implemented. Sorry for any possible disturbances in the usage of the website.
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(during the implementation of the new version just now, that is)
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Cool yo.
Suggestion (it's just small tiny stuff)
When you edit stuff about a player, the "points" thing is a <textarea>.
Change it to <input type="text">, or better yet to the new HTML5 stuff like this:
<input name="points" placeholder="Points" type="number" min="0"></input>
That way you get a better input box to put it (if you use "number" you even some mini buttons to increase it).
EDIT:
2)When you go back to the "Games" menu, or stuff like that, you need to redirect.
For instance, I try to access the next URL to delete a game (by pressing the "Delete" button for instance):
http://t-teesalmi.users.cs.helsinki.fi/MafiaTools/DeleteGame?id=29
However, after the game is deleted, I go back to the "Games" menu, yet the URL is exactly the same (it says "DeleteGame?id=29").
That means that when I hit Refresh, it goes back to that same URL. I.e it tries to delete the game I already deleted, which shows this nice little fella:
java.lang.NullPointerException
Servlets.DeleteGameServlet.processRequest(DeleteGameServlet.java:53)
Servlets.DeleteGameServlet.doGet(DeleteGameServlet.java:89)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:617)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:717)
Use "Redirect" instead of "Forward". I don't remember what you were using, but if you are using servlets and tomcat or stuff, then you did something like this:
request.getRequestDispatcher("games.jsp").forward(request,response);
I think you can use "response.sendRedirect(URL)" or "request.getRequestDispatcher(URL).forward(request,response)", where URL would be the servlet action (maybe "/Games"?)
Here's more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post/Redirect/Get
3)I tried testing some security stuff. Didn't see entrances for SQL injection, which is good (at least when creating things)
4)You are vulnerable to CSRF requests:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_request_forgery
For example, you have this URL here:
http://t-teesalmi.users.cs.helsinki.fi/MafiaTools/DeleteGame?id=2
Now, if I inadvertently press that link, nothing happens since I don't own a game with id 2 (and it even shows me a nifty "Stop hacking the database!" tag :D ). But imagine that the player that DOES own the game with id 2 clicks that link. It will automatically delete his own game, even when he didn't want to (he just randomly clicked a link).
I could make it more obtrusive than that, for instance by doing something like this:
Free titties! Click Now!
Now your user clicks there thinking of free titties, but inadvertently deletes his game (check the actual URL).
5)It's protected against XSS attacks, good.
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That's a lot of stuff :D I'll look into it tonight.
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1) Done.
2) Done.
3) Nice to know.
4) How to prevent this? Seems like kind of a niche / not so dangerous thing though You'd require the user to be logged in on his account + knowledge of which id numbers his created games have + lure him to click a link that points to one of those id numbers. I have difficulty imagining anyone pulling all that off...
5) Nice to know.
Thanks for the more technical suggestions
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On August 29 2014 04:39 Xatalos wrote:4) How to prevent this? Seems like kind of a niche / not so dangerous thing though You'd require the user to be logged in on his account + knowledge of which id numbers his created games have + lure him to click a link that points to one of those id numbers. I have difficulty imagining anyone pulling all that off...
You just need to add random numbers, like adding links with numbers from 1 up to 100, and you can just wait for somebody to open them up.
With today's browser navigation, you can always expect someone to be already logged in, unless you make user's session expire (say, after 10 minutes of no interaction with the web site or something).
Yeah, doubt you'll get anything if you post it as a link in this forum. But there are other ways to do so.
Easy one:
Send every player from TL Mafia an email with this message body:
<img src="http://t-teesalmi.users.cs.helsinki.fi/MafiaTools/DeleteGame?id=2" width="1" height="1" border="0">
Surely all players will regularly check their email. Once the dude that owns game with id "2" reads the email, the browser automatically sends a request to that URL, deleting his game. The user doesnt' even have to press a link.
I mean...if someone wants to fuck up you website he WILL do it. Hackers are resourceful little whippersnappers like that. I guess it's not that important for this "toy" proyect, but it's a good lesson when you make bigger stuff. I mean, you don't want to find out that ALL the games from your website were deleted with such an attack, just because there was a bored dude that checked that site out and wanted to fuck it up.
To prevent it, check the "Prevention" section in the wikipedia article. It's easier if you use a framework that does that automatically for you. If not the easiest is to add that "authentication hidden field" to the form, and send it with the request. Then check it in the server, and if it matches the one that's on the server you delete the game, if not you don't.
Basically, it's like this:
User goes to page "Games", you generate a random value XXYY and send it in the page in a hidden field
User presses button "Delete Game", sending, in the form (or cookies, or even the URL as another parameter), the value XXYY
In the server, you check that the value you get from the request is the same as the one you got (XXYY). If it's the same, you delete the game, if not you send an error.
Now if you just randomly arrive at that link from another place (like the email above), you won't send the correct value token (that gets generated ONLY when you go to the "My Games" page), so you'll never be able to mistakenly delete your own games.
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On August 29 2014 23:21 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2014 04:39 Xatalos wrote:4) How to prevent this? Seems like kind of a niche / not so dangerous thing though You'd require the user to be logged in on his account + knowledge of which id numbers his created games have + lure him to click a link that points to one of those id numbers. I have difficulty imagining anyone pulling all that off... You just need to add random numbers, like adding links with numbers from 1 up to 100, and you can just wait for somebody to open them up. With today's browser navigation, you can always expect someone to be already logged in, unless you make user's session expire (say, after 10 minutes of no interaction with the web site or something). Yeah, doubt you'll get anything if you post it as a link in this forum. But there are other ways to do so. Easy one: Send every player from TL Mafia an email with this message body: Show nested quote +<img src="http://t-teesalmi.users.cs.helsinki.fi/MafiaTools/DeleteGame?id=2" width="1" height="1" border="0"> Surely all players will regularly check their email. Once the dude that owns game with id "2" reads the email, the browser automatically sends a request to that URL, deleting his game. The user doesnt' even have to press a link. I mean...if someone wants to fuck up you website he WILL do it. Hackers are resourceful little whippersnappers like that. I guess it's not that important for this "toy" proyect, but it's a good lesson when you make bigger stuff. I mean, you don't want to find out that ALL the games from your website were deleted with such an attack, just because there was a bored dude that checked that site out and wanted to fuck it up. To prevent it, check the "Prevention" section in the wikipedia article. It's easier if you use a framework that does that automatically for you. If not the easiest is to add that "authentication hidden field" to the form, and send it with the request. Then check it in the server, and if it matches the one that's on the server you delete the game, if not you don't. Basically, it's like this: User goes to page "Games", you generate a random value XXYY and send it in the page in a hidden field User presses button "Delete Game", sending, in the form (or cookies, or even the URL as another parameter), the value XXYY In the server, you check that the value you get from the request is the same as the one you got (XXYY). If it's the same, you delete the game, if not you send an error. Now if you just randomly arrive at that link from another place (like the email above), you won't send the correct value token (that gets generated ONLY when you go to the "My Games" page), so you'll never be able to mistakenly delete your own games.
I guess it's impossible to make my website 100% secure with my current knowledge (if it's even possible for any website since even government/bank websites are hacked into). I'm satisfied if it's hard enough to hack that it can't be just done on any random moment of boredom
I'll look into your suggestion.
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Yeah no problem. Surely you can add more and better stuff to your website instead of wasting time on this. Just keep it in mind if this ever gets big
Here are some suggestions which might be easy to do and could improve it, at least aesthetically:
In the "Game" page, have a little reference that says something like this:
"0 points = Confirmed Scum
1-2 points = Very scummy
3 points = Scummy
4 points = Leaning scum
5 points = Null
6 points = Leaning town
7 points = Townie
8-9 points = Super townie
10 points = Confirmed Town"
Now what you do, is add a little text next to each "score". Whenever a user changes the score of someone else to, say, 7 points, put the "Townie" text next to it, and paint both "Townie" and "7" green. If he changes it to 2, then change the text to "Very scummy" and change both of them to red.
You can have variant shades of red, green, and grey, depending on the points that player has.
It's relatively easy to do (you don't have to change the database, add new pages, etc), but it can increase the usability. Because if not, users will just be looking at a huge blob of numbers and players and won't really understand what's going on, or won't really "feel" their reads coming through this point system. But a simple color system can catch a user's eye more quickly and be more pleasant to the eye
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On August 30 2014 09:54 gonzaw wrote:Yeah no problem. Surely you can add more and better stuff to your website instead of wasting time on this. Just keep it in mind if this ever gets big Here are some suggestions which might be easy to do and could improve it, at least aesthetically: In the "Game" page, have a little reference that says something like this: "0 points = Confirmed Scum 1-2 points = Very scummy 3 points = Scummy 4 points = Leaning scum 5 points = Null 6 points = Leaning town 7 points = Townie 8-9 points = Super townie 10 points = Confirmed Town" Now what you do, is add a little text next to each "score". Whenever a user changes the score of someone else to, say, 7 points, put the "Townie" text next to it, and paint both "Townie" and "7" green. If he changes it to 2, then change the text to "Very scummy" and change both of them to red. You can have variant shades of red, green, and grey, depending on the points that player has. It's relatively easy to do (you don't have to change the database, add new pages, etc), but it can increase the usability. Because if not, users will just be looking at a huge blob of numbers and players and won't really understand what's going on, or won't really "feel" their reads coming through this point system. But a simple color system can catch a user's eye more quickly and be more pleasant to the eye
That's an idea worth considering. However, there's one problem with that: I wouldn't want to limit the usage of the points too much? Different users might want to use the points differently. Well, maybe that would just be more simple, so much so that it would outweigh the disadvantages of losing customization...
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Well, if there are any more suggestions, please post them here / PM me. Not sure if I'll be able to focus that much on this project for the following weeks, since my studies will be starting now, but at least small changes should be doable on a quick schedule. Ultimately I'm not sure if this website is *that* useful compared to just a plain text file / spreadsheet... But perhaps some players will find uses for it
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your Country52797 Posts
Hey. I'm trying to register on mafiatools but it's telling me every username I type is already taken. This includes The_Templar, TehTemplar, and The Templar, among other IDs I go by on other forums. There is no way these are all taken. (Some of my usernames also involve random-looking letters or obscure words)
The usernames I have tried are:
The_Templar
TehTemplar
The Templar
Lord Molyb
Lord Molybdenum
GalacticShovel
TemporaryWorker
TemplarTemp
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
oh, sorry, I made a bunch of accounts on it with those names
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 04 2014 05:09 Blazinghand wrote:
oh, sorry, I made a bunch of accounts on it with those names
Seems legit.
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On September 04 2014 04:53 The_Templar wrote:
Hey. I'm trying to register on mafiatools but it's telling me every username I type is already taken. This includes The_Templar, TehTemplar, and The Templar, among other IDs I go by on other forums. There is no way these are all taken. (Some of my usernames also involve random-looking letters or obscure words)
The usernames I have tried are:
The_Templar
TehTemplar
The Templar
Lord Molyb
Lord Molybdenum
GalacticShovel
TemporaryWorker
TemplarTemp
Are you sure you're not confusing the alert messages with each other? If it says "The username 'The_Templar' is already in use!" then it's already taken, but if it says something like "User 'testa' has been registered!" then it was successful. Did you try to log in on those accounts? I think you might have just created a bunch of accounts
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I admit the success message might be a bit confusing...
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I searched for the usernames in the database and it looks like you successfully created those accounts. Just try logging in
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On September 04 2014 04:53 The_Templar wrote:
Hey. I'm trying to register on mafiatools but it's telling me every username I type is already taken. This includes The_Templar, TehTemplar, and The Templar, among other IDs I go by on other forums. There is no way these are all taken. (Some of my usernames also involve random-looking letters or obscure words)
The usernames I have tried are:
The_Templar
TehTemplar
The Templar
Lord Molyb
Lord Molybdenum
GalacticShovel
TemporaryWorker
TemplarTemp
You also go by Lord Molybdenum, GalacticShovel, TemporaryWorker? What a coincidence!
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 04 2014 07:41 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 04:53 The_Templar wrote:
Hey. I'm trying to register on mafiatools but it's telling me every username I type is already taken. This includes The_Templar, TehTemplar, and The Templar, among other IDs I go by on other forums. There is no way these are all taken. (Some of my usernames also involve random-looking letters or obscure words)
The usernames I have tried are:
The_Templar
TehTemplar
The Templar
Lord Molyb
Lord Molybdenum
GalacticShovel
TemporaryWorker
TemplarTemp Are you sure you're not confusing the alert messages with each other? If it says "The username 'The_Templar' is already in use!" then it's already taken, but if it says something like "User 'testa' has been registered!" then it was successful. Did you try to log in on those accounts? I think you might have just created a bunch of accounts
It said that the username is already in use.
I tried logging in as The_Templar but the 4-5 passwords I normally use didn't work.
I registered the one ID I have that's not on that list and it said I was registered. The password worked for that one.
On September 05 2014 04:34 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 04:53 The_Templar wrote:
Hey. I'm trying to register on mafiatools but it's telling me every username I type is already taken. This includes The_Templar, TehTemplar, and The Templar, among other IDs I go by on other forums. There is no way these are all taken. (Some of my usernames also involve random-looking letters or obscure words)
The usernames I have tried are:
The_Templar
TehTemplar
The Templar
Lord Molyb
Lord Molybdenum
GalacticShovel
TemporaryWorker
TemplarTemp You also go by Lord Molybdenum, GalacticShovel, TemporaryWorker? What a coincidence!
Funny.
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iOS version plz.
LOL @ GalacticShovel
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On September 05 2014 06:29 GlowingBear wrote:
iOS version plz.
LOL @ GalacticShovel
The website should work perfectly on iOS (at least on my iPhone), although it isn't really optimized for iOS specifically. Maybe an iOS app could become reality some day
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On September 05 2014 06:00 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 07:41 Xatalos wrote:On September 04 2014 04:53 The_Templar wrote:
Hey. I'm trying to register on mafiatools but it's telling me every username I type is already taken. This includes The_Templar, TehTemplar, and The Templar, among other IDs I go by on other forums. There is no way these are all taken. (Some of my usernames also involve random-looking letters or obscure words)
The usernames I have tried are:
The_Templar
TehTemplar
The Templar
Lord Molyb
Lord Molybdenum
GalacticShovel
TemporaryWorker
TemplarTemp Are you sure you're not confusing the alert messages with each other? If it says "The username 'The_Templar' is already in use!" then it's already taken, but if it says something like "User 'testa' has been registered!" then it was successful. Did you try to log in on those accounts? I think you might have just created a bunch of accounts It said that the username is already in use. I tried logging in as The_Templar but the 4-5 passwords I normally use didn't work. I registered the one ID I have that's not on that list and it said I was registered. The password worked for that one. Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 04:34 kitaman27 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:53 The_Templar wrote:
Hey. I'm trying to register on mafiatools but it's telling me every username I type is already taken. This includes The_Templar, TehTemplar, and The Templar, among other IDs I go by on other forums. There is no way these are all taken. (Some of my usernames also involve random-looking letters or obscure words)
The usernames I have tried are:
The_Templar
TehTemplar
The Templar
Lord Molyb
Lord Molybdenum
GalacticShovel
TemporaryWorker
TemplarTemp You also go by Lord Molybdenum, GalacticShovel, TemporaryWorker? What a coincidence! Funny.
Very weird. Perhaps you mistyped your password for that account (before I implemented the double check for creating your password)? Unfortunately the passwords are hashed so there's absolutely no way to recover those accounts no matter how I searched the database for them :/ Perhaps I should implement an e-mail account recovery system at some point... Then again, it's not a huge deal even if you lose your account, since you can just easily make another one and continue using that (I guess someone could have a reason to check his notes on past games though).
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On August 31 2014 04:29 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 09:54 gonzaw wrote:Yeah no problem. Surely you can add more and better stuff to your website instead of wasting time on this. Just keep it in mind if this ever gets big Here are some suggestions which might be easy to do and could improve it, at least aesthetically: In the "Game" page, have a little reference that says something like this: "0 points = Confirmed Scum 1-2 points = Very scummy 3 points = Scummy 4 points = Leaning scum 5 points = Null 6 points = Leaning town 7 points = Townie 8-9 points = Super townie 10 points = Confirmed Town" Now what you do, is add a little text next to each "score". Whenever a user changes the score of someone else to, say, 7 points, put the "Townie" text next to it, and paint both "Townie" and "7" green. If he changes it to 2, then change the text to "Very scummy" and change both of them to red. You can have variant shades of red, green, and grey, depending on the points that player has. It's relatively easy to do (you don't have to change the database, add new pages, etc), but it can increase the usability. Because if not, users will just be looking at a huge blob of numbers and players and won't really understand what's going on, or won't really "feel" their reads coming through this point system. But a simple color system can catch a user's eye more quickly and be more pleasant to the eye That's an idea worth considering. However, there's one problem with that: I wouldn't want to limit the usage of the points too much? Different users might want to use the points differently. Well, maybe that would just be more simple, so much so that it would outweigh the disadvantages of losing customization...
Game is done, waited until the game is actually over to prevent people from reading stuff from me yalayala, anyways:
What you said above is true for me at least. I for one used 0 as neutral and went into the negatives for a degree of scumminess. So basicly -10 up to +10
It's pretty easy to use all in all and the two most glaring things I noticed are:
- You really need to know how to make lists with html to use that. I'd suggest putting a link to selfhtml or something like that in the OP. If you have more than 1 phrase per person it get's really confusing when only using <br>
- I set dead people to -1000 to not have them deleted (and thus the reads to them deleted at the same time) but still have them seperated from the still alive people.
If you could add some kind of option to mark someone as dead and have dead people in a slightly seperated list below the main thing that would be amazing.
+ Show Spoiler [picture, you can see both points] +End result for me looked something like that: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B0vwsqT.png)
I tried my best to be in the last Cell to get more time to test it out but HF was a dick and put me in Cell2 despite me making it my sole goal to be placed in Cell5 for the first 24hours 
Oh also real nice would be some kind of automatic timestamp function whenever you update/change someones notes.
Making it completly automatic is probably not possible because you'd have to incorporate it into the whole thing but adding a little "date/time" button that adds the date+current time, neatly formatted, at your cursor position should be doable, right?
If you look at my read on WoS (which was completly and utterly wrong) you'll see him standing at +7 which he obviously didn't get after my first comment reading "gut read" and nothing else. In fact he was at +1 at that time.
Having some kind of time relation would make it a bit easier to realize what you thought at what time. The gutread on WoS was from really d1 and the 2nd one ended up being later d2 for example.
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On September 06 2014 07:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 04:29 Xatalos wrote:On August 30 2014 09:54 gonzaw wrote:Yeah no problem. Surely you can add more and better stuff to your website instead of wasting time on this. Just keep it in mind if this ever gets big Here are some suggestions which might be easy to do and could improve it, at least aesthetically: In the "Game" page, have a little reference that says something like this: "0 points = Confirmed Scum 1-2 points = Very scummy 3 points = Scummy 4 points = Leaning scum 5 points = Null 6 points = Leaning town 7 points = Townie 8-9 points = Super townie 10 points = Confirmed Town" Now what you do, is add a little text next to each "score". Whenever a user changes the score of someone else to, say, 7 points, put the "Townie" text next to it, and paint both "Townie" and "7" green. If he changes it to 2, then change the text to "Very scummy" and change both of them to red. You can have variant shades of red, green, and grey, depending on the points that player has. It's relatively easy to do (you don't have to change the database, add new pages, etc), but it can increase the usability. Because if not, users will just be looking at a huge blob of numbers and players and won't really understand what's going on, or won't really "feel" their reads coming through this point system. But a simple color system can catch a user's eye more quickly and be more pleasant to the eye That's an idea worth considering. However, there's one problem with that: I wouldn't want to limit the usage of the points too much? Different users might want to use the points differently. Well, maybe that would just be more simple, so much so that it would outweigh the disadvantages of losing customization... Game is done, waited until the game is actually over to prevent people from reading stuff from me yalayala, anyways: What you said above is true for me at least. I for one used 0 as neutral and went into the negatives for a degree of scumminess. So basicly -10 up to +10 It's pretty easy to use all in all and the two most glaring things I noticed are: - You really need to know how to make lists with html to use that. I'd suggest putting a link to selfhtml or something like that in the OP. If you have more than 1 phrase per person it get's really confusing when only using <br>
- I set dead people to -1000 to not have them deleted (and thus the reads to them deleted at the same time) but still have them seperated from the still alive people.
If you could add some kind of option to mark someone as dead and have dead people in a slightly seperated list below the main thing that would be amazing. + Show Spoiler [picture, you can see both points] +End result for me looked something like that: I tried my best to be in the last Cell to get more time to test it out but HF was a dick and put me in Cell2 despite me making it my sole goal to be placed in Cell5 for the first 24hours Oh also real nice would be some kind of automatic timestamp function whenever you update/change someones notes. Making it completly automatic is probably not possible because you'd have to incorporate it into the whole thing but adding a little "date/time" button that adds the date+current time, neatly formatted, at your cursor position should be doable, right? If you look at my read on WoS (which was completly and utterly wrong) you'll see him standing at +7 which he obviously didn't get after my first comment reading "gut read" and nothing else. In fact he was at +1 at that time. Having some kind of time relation would make it a bit easier to realize what you thought at what time. The gutread on WoS was from really d1 and the 2nd one ended up being later d2 for example.
Thanks for the detailed feedback!
Your usage of the tool looks a lot better than mine, haha... I just basically wrote a huge block of text as my notes. But that does indeed make it look a lot neater.
In fact I think it would be more useful to mark the timings of the notes as points in the game (early D1, N1, etc.). That seems a bit difficult to implement automatically though. When I was testing it out, I usually just wrote something like "didn't post almost anything during D1 - started posting a lot more during N1 and looks a lot better now" or something like that. That seems a lot more informative than a time stamp I think?
The "dead people" thing would make it a bit easier to handle all the players, and actually I was supposed to implement that when I made my last revamp of the database structure. Unfortunately I apparently forgot about that issue and focused on other things.. I wouldn't want to reset the database at this point, but this kind of a minor addition should be doable without changing anything about the already existing stuff in the database. So I think I could definitely implement that next.
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yeah D1, N1 and so on would probably be even better but that's hardly possible to implement in an even remotely automatic fashion. Sure most games have 48/24 cycles but some, just like the Cell game just now, start on D0, or N0 or don't have 48/24 cycles or have instant majority which changing cycles (I'm looking at Palmar games). Thus you'd have to make that 100% by hand.
Just thought a timestamp would be nice for lazy people to press that button and figure out what day it was based on the timestamp if you ever need to. You still get relative information from a timestamp as in how long things/notes have been appart. Though, adding a "D1" , "N1" in front of every comment yourself is probably the way to go like you said.
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Yeah, that might be true. It shouldn't be hard to implement and I doubt it would negatively impact anything, so I don't really see why not
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An export to .csv feature would be cool.
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Hm yeah, why not. I can look into that as well. When I get to do stuff next time
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I changed the registration success message to be (hopefully) a bit less confusing. That's all for now The other suggestions would take quite a bit more effort.
As a sidenote, I've been thinking of creating a C9++ setup generator. Basically just a webpage that you could refresh and it would always give a new randomized C9++ setup. Thoughts? I didn't find one anywhere through Google at least.
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EPT
