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[W] Newbie LVIII - Disney Princess Mafia
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 12 2014 23:28 Amiko wrote: That's fine! If you have any questions on how the game works or anything like that, feel free to ask about them in thread before the game begins or by PMing a host. Your coach(es) can give you advice, too. I guess the most questions will come up while actually playing... and for the meantime, you gave quite a lot to read. And it's not, like there are no other games running on TL, which you could read to get a feel of how mafia is played here... I think I actually found a game with some names, that are also in this game. ^^ | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
And 'Happy Birthday' to our host, if i am not missinterpreting that little birthday-hat right next to your name! ^^ On August 26 2014 10:22 Superbia wrote: Scumreading JennyHell and abuse due to evil sounding names. Funny, that out of all people you call someone out for having an evil name, when it is you, who is using the latin word for 'pride', one of the seven cardinal sins, as your name... And in the last newbie-game a guy named DCLXVI was a mafia goon... latin numbers... and connected to the devil as well... this can't be a coincidence! | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
First of, to get this out of the world (at least I hope so): I didn't mean to attack superbia. I liked the irony and wanted to point it out, because I found it funny. I may be new to forummafia but i wouldn't go as far as calling people scum because of their names. I also could have added some smileys to make the intention behind the post a bit clearer. For what it's worth: 'Barakos' is a name I took out of a Warhammer Fantasy Battlereport, where the author named his Strigoi-Vampirecount 'Barakos' and i've been using the name ever since, so if you want a 'scummy' name... there you got it.  Hope, that will be all, there is left to say about the name-discussion... now for the important stuff: On Jenny: I think Jenny is playing very similar to the last Newbie-Mafia and trys to get the thread going / is very vocal, so seeing that she was town the last game, I read her as town for now, although i am not very sure, since she stated herself: On August 26 2014 16:59 JennyHell wrote: Whether I am mafia or town I would still play the exact same way, or at least try to, so that in the off chance I would get mafia in a game in the future it'll be easier for me to seem towny. Still most towny person at the moment. On Abuse: I didn't like you posting questions before answering them yourself... especially the ones, where you ask for the opinions on lurker- and liar-lynches.. It looks to me, as if you were trying to get yourselft the permission to lurk for a while... granted: you answered your questions when you were asked, still I found this a bit odd and will keep an eye on you. And to answer your questions: My alignment is town, but i kinda hoped i would roll mafia. I absolutely hate playing in the dark, so i would have loved to know, who is friend and who is foe. Now i will have to trust my instincts... god help us all! Lynching a liar is something that is very situation-dependend... like "Did the person lie to protect a powerrole at night?" vs. "Did sb. fakeclaim a powerrole at daytime to get the real powerrole lynched?". Lynching the lurkers is something I would only resort to, if I had no better scumread on anybody else, since I think it is a quite weak motiv to lynch somebody and chances are high, the lynchee will flip town. That being said: this is my first forumgame, so I haven't really met any really annoying lurkers. Let's just hope, everybody is active in this game, so we can get solid reads. On the other ones, that have posted so far: There is not much I can read out of your posts so far... mostly due to the fact, that there aren't that many posts to read from. | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
Nice you put that much work into the game... although the readability is suffering quite hard... i had to copy your stuff into a extra editor to try and filter it through... maybe next time split it up into several little ones? Pretty please? But there are three points, I would like to ask you about... first of all our Man of Plenty names... How do you read what meatpudding said about looking into Jennys heart to see her true alignment as a cop-softclaim? I mean... I can see how you could come to this conclusion, but to me this all sounds in line with the fluff the whole post was written in. So this seems a little far fetched. To be honest I find it pretty suspicious to talk people into (soft-)roleclaims before the first End of Day... feels like putting a crosshair on their back for the first night and the last thing I would want to do is make scums job of powerrole-hunting any easier. Maybe you might want to be a bit more careful with such conclusions? Unless of course I am missing sth... please guide me through the darkness, good fairy! Next thing is your vote on Breshke. While I get, that this vote might simply be a leverage to get him to talk... why exactly him? If I had to vote at this point to get somebody to participate, I would put it on Daydreamarine, gobbledydook or lilwade, since those didn't really post anything. Breshke at least promised some reads and seeing he is from Australia you got to take the timezones into consideration... maybe he is just asleep and before he went offline, there were not really that many posts you could use to read people. Same goes for meatpudding. Last thing would be Mihzaa vs. abuse Mihzaa scored -1 on your list, while abuse was at -0.5 yet still abuse is on your lynch-list, while Mihzaa isn't. Is there any read you have not given yet? And since I got some questions for you, here are the answers to your request: Towncircle: JennyHell (still in there, although she has been very quiet after her strong start, this judgement might also be a bit influenced by her strong towngame in the earlier mafia) almost towncircle, but didn't quite make the cut: Superbia I really liked the effort, you put into your post but after reading it the first time, I found it to be quite empty, since about 66.67% of it are agreements to statements others did, 16.67% are comments like "cool", "get a room", etc... and only the remaining part is your own opinion. But you seem comfortable in your opinion and I am looking forward to your answers. Mafia: none yet For me it is too early to have strong mafia-reads but I really need to hear stuff from lilwade, gobbledydook and daydreamarine | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
My last question has already been answered, so don't bother doing it again. | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 27 2014 03:25 JennyHell wrote: I do come off rather strong at times, I agree. It's my new thing I discovered since I started playing forum mafia. How would you say you usually come off when playing forum mafia? Just curious. I think I already mentioned it in my first larger post but here again and in a bit more detail: This is my first game of forum mafia and I haven't played mafia in a good amount of years. We had a quite big group of live-mafia-players back in the day, when I still went to school but as it goes with everything, if you go to school in a smaller city... people spread out to go to university / do their required military service or get jobs in other cities, so we stopped playing. Few weeks ago i stumbled over the Mafia-section of this forum, got interested, lurked in some games and got more interested, and now - her i am. | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
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Barakos
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But let's see, if we can lead this thread into a more productive direction... On August 27 2014 03:21 Superbia wrote: Eh, the soft claim may or may not be true. It just means I probably don't want to lynch him day 1 unless some dirty shit comes up. I also don't really think I'm helping mafia here, it really could mean anything, like you pointed out, but if it eases your mind I'll stop pointing shit like that out.  I don't want to elaborate too much on bresh at the moment until he starts talking. Fine with me, if you don't want to talk about Breshke right now. But I'll come back to this point some point into the game, if it is still important by the time, Breshke answers. Mind to talk a little about abuse? From your giant post I get, that you also didn't like the way he brought the discussion about policies into the thread. Are you with me, when i say that it looks kind of scummy and seems like he is trying to find out, if it is ok to lurk? Or do you think there is the possibility I am overreading things and he just made it sound a little weird? | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
the "Thanks, I guess " -part was directed at Jenny for welcoming me back to mafia. | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
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Barakos
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On August 27 2014 05:00 lilwade wrote: 3) Barakos I think you started of pretty strong but have moved down a little bit with some filler posts. Who do you think we should persue? Did you actually read superbia's post? do you think it could have been scum motivated? What in it makes you think it is an abomination or were you merely calling it that because of how long it was? What are your thoughts on abuse? Welcome to the discussion, lilwade! About time, i might add. First about that abomination-part, since it is the easiest thing to answer: I didn't want to discredit superbia for putting as much effort in his post as he did. What I wanted to express was, that his post is absolutely huge and doesn't look pretty... just like the abominations in warcraft 3. I disliked several points in superbias post, which i already pointed out and he answered already to my concerns. Did you actually read, what I had to say about it? The thing I found most scummy was him trying to put a soft-copclaim to meatpudding for something that in my eyes was absolutely no claim at all. But his answers and - again - the huge effort behind his post make him look more towny than scummy in my eyes, which brings me directly to your next question... who should we persue? This is a hard one. My current feeling is, that i don't like the four guys who haven't posted anything meaningfull at all, which are Breshke, meatpudding, gobbledydook and daydreamarine but I think we should not persue them quite yet... three of them are australians (MP, Breshke and gobbledydook), which leaves only daydreamarine looking kind of suspicious, since he is in my timezone and should have had plenty of time to read at least something. But again... I don't want to pursue someone yet for not posting anything at all... there are still 29 hours of D1 left for them to make their entrance. So with Jenny being in my town and Superbia being close to being in my town this leaves you, abuse and mihzaaa as possible D1 lynches. Your post seems towny to me. You gave lots of reads and spoke out your opinion on several topics that were discussed earlier, which is good, but at the same time asked questions about a whole bunch of people. This can be attributed to you reading the whole thread and just gathering your thoughts but it could also be you trying to find something on some townie that will stick. So I haven't made up my mind on you yet. I think I also made clear in an earlier post, that i got some reservations towards abuse, of which I am not quite sure, whether they are just a wrong feeling about him on my side caused by our different understanding of what a lurker is or if they are substantiated. Mihzaaaa - i got a hard time reading him. I will have to look closer at his filter to make up my mind. Right now i get a feeling, that he could be town. Mainly based on the big post he made to comment on Superbias post, in which he pointed out where he agreed with superbia and where he disagreed and gave a general insight in his thoughtprocess. Also i like this sentence a lot: I like this a lot because I think things got a little heavy. I am guilty of being aggressive at times and i think it's a good policy to push but not harass and to inquire but not interrogate. Nothing is worse than a thread full of people shouting and flaming each other... | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 27 2014 05:54 Superbia wrote: Sounds like a preface for getting easy miss-lynches and blaming it on lying/lurking. Lynch all lurkers is "ok". Lynch all liars is garbage. I already fucking lied (gave misinformation about my points), where's the HARD push, huh? Why reveal this? And why so early? This makes no sense as town. You should at least wait until everyone has answered the questions. And on that note, despite requests, abuse still hasn't answered all of them. Furthermore, to me, this makes it feel like there is much more substance behind the questions than there actually is. Don't get me wrong, I kind of liked the question behind lynching liars and lurkers, but it could also be used to distract town and eat time. The real question is: what have you gotten from the answers and how does it contribute to town? What? There's plenty to read (alright, not that much, but what?). I gave no reads in return? Did you even read my post? Or are you not interested in what town has to say? Red flag right here. Also, you didn't ask any reads from anyone yet, so it's okay not to provide any of your own? Not asking people shit is a bad sign, by the way. Another part that makes it blatantly obvious that you only skimmed over my post. Did you just crtl+f "scum" or something? How do I "rush too much"? You mean giving opinions and reads? Are you not happy that I'm giving a shitload of data (not all of it being good, granted), even though you complained about "no people being around". Good morning everyone. Just woke up, so here some thoughts on the abuse-case before i head to work: 1st quote and your reaction: I feel like you are overreacting at this point. You were called out instantly by 2 people on your math not adding up and gave the explanation to this without hesitation. abuse himself said, that lying without explanation would lead to him pushing people... you explained why you "lied" (i wouldn't even agreeing on it being a lie), so I would not have awaited a reaction from him, since pushing this point would have made him look more mafia than town. 2nd quote and your reaction: Here you slip hard. abuse has answered all of his questions http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia?page=7#129 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia?page=7#131 as well as the questions I had for him... in fact the post you quoted here was an answer to me questioning his motives behind asking his questions. 3rd and 4th quote and your reaction: You are absolutely right. Anybody calling you out for not giving any reads and not being consistant with your opinion is not reading your posts close enough. Your reasoning on why Jenny is in your towncirle wasn't obvious, since you started with a -0.5 on her but you developed your opinion on her throughout your entire post and in the end it made sense. I had to reread it all and add up your numbers twice, but it did make sense. 5th quote: While I see the valid points in your post, I feel very uncomfortable voting on him yet, since he is one of the top contributors to the thread and your vote feels rushed to me, too. Care to say something about my first two points? | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
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Barakos
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I am still very unsure about you. Would you mind explaining the following: On August 27 2014 04:25 MihZaaa wrote: What bothers me is that the people I read as scummy have either not spoken lately or have barely spoken. I wouldn't like this to be a wasted lynch where we end up just lynching for inactivity but it seems that's the direction we're heading to. On August 27 2014 08:08 MihZaaa wrote: From least scummy to most. Barakos Superbia and JennyHell Abuse You complain about your scum-suspects not contributing enough yet you put abuse, one of the most vocal ones in this thread so far as most scummy? I feel like you are contradicting yourself here. Especially since your post was right after two posts of abuse. meatpudding: I disagree with your read on abuse, especially with calling this part: On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote: I also completely disagree on your rating. Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses. Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral. good analysis. This is a part I find especially scummy about abuse, since it shows, he hasn't read superbias post completely or is intentionally disregarding superbias change of mind on jenny just to make a point against one of the more towny people. Would you mind, rereading superbias post with a special filter on his tells on jenny and tell me, if you still think abuses post is good analysis? And speaking of Jenny: I like that you don't trust her completely... I went through my reads and find, that I cut her quite some slack. I will have to rethink my standpoint on her in the near future. I can see your vote on Superbia as a result of him trying to put a softclaim on you and him not reading all of abuses posts before making a case. But don't you think, superbia also got some really valid points on abuse and that therefore your vote is a bit too quick? gobbledydook: I didn't like you, coming in the thread and 15 lines of content later you claim to have discovered a scumduo. While I agree with you on abuse having some very suspicious posts, I dislike that you completely discard the fact, that it was his posts that got the thread going in the end. Would you care to bring forward some more points that back up your vote and make me believe that you actually read the whole thread and not just some posts that led you to believe, abuse is scum? At the moment, I believe you are overcompensating for being inactive the first 24h. | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 27 2014 18:24 abuse wrote: Barakos What did you notice about me so far, while keeping an eye on me? I have explained this in one of my last posts, (the huge one) how does your opinion change, when you see that it was not what was implied by superbia? Why do you see why meatpudding does not trust jenny completely, but do not see why I don't? I noticed that you have gotten pretty defensive, which is a natural reaction, given the fact that you are being pushed right now. - So there is no read from this. You seemed overly defensive, when i asked Superbia about his thoughts on your motives and you jumped in before he could answer. Didn't like that you called it silly and a waste of time, when all I wanted to do is get him talking. I wrote in another post, that I thought his huge openingpost contained only little valid information, given how long it was, so I felt the need to get some more information out of him, which in the end I got, when he made the big case on you, even though this wasn't the result of my question. The explanation you gave on the read-discussion is as good, as it is simple. I can see that you meant something different than superbia and I understood. It was a fault by me for pushing you about this, while not thoroughly rereading what superbia quoted. On Jenny I already stated that I realize, I've got Jenny in my townpile without any good reason and that I am looking into it. And I allways could understand, why you wouldn't trust Jenny, I had a different problem with your push on Superbia. When Superbia put him in his townpile and you questioned his descision I read it as an attack on him for just having her in his townpile, which was absolutely fine with me at that moment (The fact, he put her in his townpile), since i was on his page and it also fitted with his logic and smaller reads he gave in his post. Now I realize, that you didn't mind the fact he had her flagged as town but much more the way he analyzed Jenny. For example you mentioned his comment "scummy reference, careful now!" which I read as one of his many trollish comments, he did in his post. Since I found the tone of most of his comments to be quite trollish, I didn't take that comment seriously and therefore found no inconsistency in his townread on Jenny. You did take the "scum reference" comment serious and therefor found some flaws in his logic, which you pointed out, which is good, since it makes me question the way I read his giant post, since I might have been blinded by his trollish undertone and therefore missed several slips and flaws. | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 27 2014 21:36 gobbledydook wrote: What's wrong with proposing a scumduo? If you don't agree, that's fine, but scumreading someone for not having the same opinion is not fine. You overemphasize 'getting the thread going'. The thread is going to get going regardless of any person posting sooner or later on day 1. If I wanted I could also post a ton of open questions to 'get the thread going' but that's not the point. The point of discussion is to provide insight. Now that abuse has posted his list of reads I think he's town. I think he has put a massive effort into solving this game. The only thing I don't like is he omguses me, but that's fine I can live with that. ##Unvote A reread of meatpudding's analysis and follow-up to my post seems to indicate he is town. Also for those saying I just jumped into the thread randomly, that's how I roll, you can see my other games in the TL mafia database and I do this every game regardless of alignment. I am just not a high volume poster. I also happen to live in Australia where kangaroos live and where your night is my day. So you read a post of mp, called him abuses scumbuddy, get called out for it not being valid, read some more posts to see, that you couldn't hold up your point and retract instantly? Why didn't you bother with reading first and posting after? On August 27 2014 23:21 gobbledydook wrote: And if you want to lynch me that's fine. When I flip 'Princess Aurora, the Sleeping Beauty' as I claimed, then we know who's been misrepresenting my words and pushing for a mislynch. So you are trying to scare people away from voting to lynch you by saying "Don't vote for me, cause if you do, everybody will know I am a princess, which makes you scum?" Your overall appearance here in this thread looks pretty bad up until now. You hop in, you post some stuff, put a vote down, shortly afterwards take back everything you said, don't answer any question directed at you and on top of it all, you also explain that we shouldn't expect any more out of you, since this you are not a high volume poster and just randomly hop in and out of threads? Where is your effort to solve this game? I can't see it and the way you put it, you make it look like you are also not very interested in putting any effort into it. ##vote gobbledydook | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 28 2014 04:30 JennyHell wrote: Barakos To start with I have a question. Do you usually answer your own questions before you let the person you ask answer? "Hey, I'm feeling awesome today, how are you?". I agree that if abuse had never answered the question himself, it would have been scummy. But to call him out on it so shortly after the question is a bit odd I think. Of course I don't usually answer my own questions beforehand. This would make for some quite strange conversations irl, i guess. But this isn't irl - it's a forumgame where everybody has to be as open as possible for us to win, to prevent misslynches. I found he wasn't open, I called him out and pushed a little... he answered the questions I still was a little suspicious about him but didn't keep going at it forever. Could have been too soon to call him out, yet I still felt the need to do it. That's all. | ||
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Barakos
Germany358 Posts
On August 28 2014 04:57 JennyHell wrote: Marry I'm not quite ready to marry someone yet, but I do have a keen eye for Barakos. How about we do a temporary engagement. Will you be my lovely bride? As tempting as it sounds to have you as my bastion of light, hope and all that is good in this world of wickedness... I am afraid I can't fully commit to being your bride right now. But let's talk some more and see, where it goes from here, shall we? You say lilwade is playing like last game and therefore have him in your banglist for now, even though he isn't very active. And at the same time your feeling about meatpudding is, that he plays a different game as last time, yet still you give him enough credit to put him on your banglist - at least for a one night stand. So my question is - why do you treat both the same, while only one of them is behaving as he used to do in the last game? | ||
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