EPTTL 'Order' LXVI Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
I'll post again tomorrow after work with some more detailed opinion. This thread is incredibly hard to read/follow on my phone. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
6. Voting is mandatory. You may not abstain. It's also not very smart of me to just eventually vote for you anyway if I were mafia. If I were mafia, it''d be a lot easier to just stash away my vote somewhere since your bandwagon is already gaining steam. If I were trying to save exo as mafia than him flipping would eventually lead to my demise. Don't worry, lol. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
Again, I'll post a more detailed analysis if I can get home early enough to read tomorrow. I'm done replying to you for now! | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
How's that? It's in writing ok? | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 11 2014 12:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote: whos getting manipulated and where? you must provide quotes and scholarly sources. Anyone who is taking round or your comments about me seriously. If you don't believe me, filter my posts and look where I began posting. The initial comment was pretty innocuous; the rest are to try to calm down round for the benefit of the town and round himself. I'm not the one trying to distract town with useless material. I'm actually done here. I'll be returning with a content-filled post tomorrow instead of clogging up the thread and the town agenda with this garbage. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 12 2014 11:29 ObiWanShinobi wrote: i noticed poofter's post on ketomai and i realized that ketomai still hasnt done anything and should still probably die. more votes on him pls. I'm here and I realize you're just pressuring me to respond, but reading 50 straight pages of mostly spam is honestly exhausting (and impossible for me after a long day at work). I gave up in the middle and just took a cursory glance through filters and whatnot for current top votes. I also took a look at a few other people that showed up near the beginning of the thread. I'll try to keep up with the thread from now on. Hopefully there's less spam in the future because missing 1 day so far seems to be catastrophic. Top votes: Koshi: Leaning slightly towards mafia. Biggest flag is his lack of cooperation with town as noted by others. He doesn't really argue, he just tries to pass off his viewpoints on the grounds that it should be obvious. I'm willing to wait on how he responds now that he's under pressure now and after he's promised to be more cooperative, however. He hasn't really contributed much other than defending himself. Also, I disagree with pretty much everything he says, but that doesn't really make him more or less mafia. Exo: Leaning slightly towards town. He doesn't spam up the thread and has only posted the few times he's confident in his opinion. However, his last post that also contained his vote jumped to a conclusion really fast without much evidence. The way he said it leaves room for change, like my own vote, so I'm also not too suspicious of that. It feels more like he honestly doesn't know who to vote for because there's so much spam/finger pointing as a newer player. Roundabout: No read. When he was attacking me earlier I thought he was doing that to everyone to create some chaos, but after looking through the filters he hasn't really done much past the early game. The point about him not contributing much is true, but not enough grounds to seem mafia yet; the game is early. The jump on me was a bit strange since I, personally, felt it was useless garbage spamming up the thread, but I'll ignore that. I would like to see him post more now that the "heat" is off of him. strongandbig: Seems a little bit like mafia. Would be the easy pick to vote but I'd love to see him defend himself first because like my suspicions for every one else after 1 day, I'm not sure. If anything, a lynch wouldn't be so bad just because he's not productive/working w/ the town. ritoky: Currently seems like mafia to me. He's on consistently throughout the day (his posts are very spread out), yet he doesn't really seem to contribute or address the game at all. He's just tunnel visioning Chromatically with nearly all his posts (who I personally have tagged as slightly town, so I naturally disagree with most of what he's saying). Chairman Ray: slightly town. So far everything he posts is pretty logical. I disagree a bit with his leaps on roundabout, but he's defended himself and arguments pretty well, so I like that. He brings up his own arguments to add to town discussion as well, which is usually good if they make sense. MZ: Other than furthering the VA lynchwagon (unless I missed some great post about it), not enough info, no read. Anyway I made a post because I promised it, but as you can see my knowledge of the thread is not very thorough yet. You should view these as my initial thoughts. I feel strongest about ritoky out of the people I checked so I'll vote on him for now to get him to speak out. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
sinani: I'm feeling mafia on this one. -KoC admitted after he got lynched that he's quite bad in mafia. It's not out of the question that some of his early defenses could be actual mafia. He went along with KoC's badly supported agenda on batsnacks. -He voted for KoC at the tipping point after it became pretty clear that KoC was going to get lynched already. He actually soft defended KoC before that and then after a couple more votes came in and KoC surpassed SnB, he conceded. On June 13 2014 02:29 sinani206 wrote: So it's lazy to still have votes on some of the leftover wagons because they should be concentrated on people who are actually going to be lynched, yet you are still the only person on poof? I'm not accusing you of anything, but I don't really see this as lazy. Can you elaborate? Here, he's suggesting that there's nothing wrong with votes on ended bandwagons. Notice where his own vote is when he says this (on the antiquated Koshi wagon). While being on an inactive bandwagon is not exactly a 100% mafia tell (I am guilty as well), being present while having such a vote and being content with it is a lot more mafia. He also does not change his vote or provide any analysis aside from: Here it's already apparent that KoC is the case that should be focused on here yet he ignores marv (and marv called him out on it) and just tries to bring up my case again. He doesn't actually "investigate" KoC until he gets called out on ignoring it. In fact, the people he has problems with in his post history are myself and koshi, who a lot of people were attacking anyway. I obviously know I'm not mafia and I'm starting to think Koshi is less mafia, which makes his cases even more suspicious to me personally. Anyway, besides that just look at his filter. He's basically contributed nothing while going for the easy low hanging fruits. That combined with his suspicious voting and lack of proactivity in analyzing big cases or any cases makes me think he's mafia. Exo: starting to think he's more mafia On June 13 2014 00:40 ExO_ wrote: I actually agree on Kush. When I read his filter, it doesn't even look like he's trying to play. He responded to Obi and HF by saying they should lynch him, and he's the jester. I'm not sure whether to interpret this as him being sarcastic and dismissive, or him just not wanting to play this game. Either way, I don't see him as being helpful in the future if he is going to continue like this. ##unvote ##Vote kushm4sta I'm having a very hard time determining what should indicate mafia, and what should indicate town (especially since it's day 1 and nothing has actually happened yet.) I'm forming opinions of people easily enough, but just thinking, for example, that marvel can be very rude doesn't make him mafia. And people who have been helpful and kind aren't necessarily town. Similarly to sinani, he ignores a lot of big cases. In this post he ignores the KoC train while it's happening (and never addresses it despite being there the whole time) for almost a policy lynch on kush (with not much evidence given). He also in this post milks the newbie card, that everyone has been giving him a pass for, a little too much. For someone who's having a hard time "[indicating] who's mafia", he doesn't seem to put much effort into finding them. His accusations usually do not have a lot of backing, and in this case, his lack of accusations over the course of the whole day combined with that puts him over the top for me. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
I'm also a very easy target for mafia who want to shift agendas or waste town time because the "case" against me is just big enough to get attention and potentially sway votes despite having almost no solid ground yet. If someone has a legitimate reason for why I'm mafia that doesn't involve the early game phase when I hadn't even started playing yet, I'd love to hear it. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
My bandwagon is the easiest for mafia to jump on because it's the safe one. Marv has me on his list, and it's the cool thing to do to accuse me with 1 line and that's it. They don't even need to give a reason because no one else is. I'm not saying the people who did are mafia necessarily, but look how many people randomly bring up my name as other bandwagons are going on. Intentionally or not, it potentially gives people an easy out to discussing the real issues that actually have evidence. The reason I haven't been refuting any cases against me is because there really aren't any. I want someone to give me a solid case that I can at least attempt to refute to get this over with. Because as it stands now, my name is just potential misdirection. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 13 2014 13:20 ExO_ wrote: I don't think this is fair. For starters, calling me out on my posting amount when you've posted about half of what I have seems rather silly. When it comes to KoC I didn't see it. He didn't look like mafia to me. But to be honest, nobody really does. So instead of voting for what I feel would essentially be a guess, I'm going to vote for the guy who is being very trolly and actively telling people to lynch him (kush). For some reason a lot of players seem to think that acting this way makes him a vigilante, and I don't understand that at all. So I stand by my vote on Kush. You're right about effort though. I'm probably not putting forth the effort that some players are. The amount of information in 55ish pages of reading is crazy. Being expected to read all of it and remember who said what about who when, and make predictions out of all of it seems like the norm here and I'm not sure I can keep up with that pace. I'm going to try my best, but TLmafia isn't the only thing I'm doing. If that's not good enough for you, if the fact that I'm not willing to accuse people I don't have strong feelings about isn't good enough for you, then lynch me. I'm not going to change how I'm playing right now. I can tell you this much: I'm 100% town, and want to do what I can to help town win (thereby allowing me to win). If I was mafia you'd be damn sure I'd be asking what things to say, what not to say. But I'm on my own. So I'm doing the best I can. That's about all you can expect from me, take it or leave it. See that's what I don't like about your play. If you weren't seeing KoC, then SAY THAT and say why before you randomly post about someone completely different. You don't want to even talk about people you don't have strong feelings about but you speak up about the randomest of people without solid evidence. I mean you accused Kush previously but your only reasoning is "he asked for it" and "he's trolly". MANY people have been "trolly" this game (Vayneauthority, Palmer, etc). Do you find a borderline policy lynch (by your reasoning) on kush more acceptable than ANY of the cases that have been brought up? I find that that hard to believe. As for why I have so few posts, it's because yes, I am generally only active after work in a 4-5 hour time period. However, I had more of a problem about your post content and when you're inactive rather than the total posts. The total posts was just an observation. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 13 2014 13:44 Bill Murray wrote: basically this but i prefer to use it on people who have cred that I'm still suspicious of players with a lot of friends, that are scum, and aren't going to be lynched Personally, I prefer using the vigi shots when we have more surefire suspects. It's way too early to be firing at potential busers. As the game goes on there will be some days where we wish we could lynch a lot of people. There is a risk but I feel like firing on the first night might be riskier because it's harder to hit mafia and easier to hit blues. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 14 2014 00:17 mattisfoolish wrote: sure! MZ hasnt done anything this game while his town play usually has him actively speaking his mind and calling people out Sandroba's town play includes destroying scum, while his mafia play includes lots of inactivity The other 2 are not extremely substantiated but they have an off feel. For example ketomai seems like he has no confidence in any of what hes posting. Obi phil has a bad feeling about I don't see the problem with not being confident about anything on the first day. In fact, the "stunning" case marv made for KoC actually did not seem that convincing to me personally. The lynch was so easy (among other reasons) that it makes me think he could possibly be bussing. Maybe it's just my personal preference, but I like to use more concrete evidence like voting patterns and associative evidence, which is not available on the first day. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
I'd love to hear your case against me, btw. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 14 2014 00:40 marvellosity wrote: IF you like associations, don't you find it rather unlikely that KotC would confidently declare his scumbuddy town as his first/only townread? (exo) Mafia basically never do this. Mafia love to call townies town though. Assuming you're not bussing: That comment looks more to me like he's just trying to post an easy read so he has some content and it backfired because he played badly. I don't think he expected people to jump on that "obvious" read. He admitted he's bad at playing mafia; I do not find it strange. Also, before that several people (including yourself) posted something along the lines of "anyone who thinks Exo is scum is trash", which makes it an even easier fake read because it's not a controversial statement. I also am not sure enough that Exo is mafia to contemplate KotC's actions regarding him yet, but it's definitely something to look at later. Most good associative reads will require more than just one mafia flip/voting cycle.Facts like that will become stronger as the game goes on, but I think it's inefficient to think about them now. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 14 2014 01:04 marvellosity wrote: only roundabound said that. If it's an "easy read" on Exo, that means Exo is town. Nothing you say is particularly logical. And your last paragraph. I guess you'll be useful on day 9 when there are 3 players left, but not before, amirite? Lol, I would accept that comment from you if it were 3-4 days in, but it's been 1 day and 1 voting cycle. Not everyone can find mafia after 1 day like you can. And by easy read I meant he thought people would ignore it and it'd be inconsequential. It could be he did not think who he found evidence for mattered as long as it was easy and it seemed like he contributed. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 14 2014 01:07 marvellosity wrote: but it's not easy to find evidence that a team-mate is town, because they are not town it's easy to find evidence a townie is town, because they are town that's kinda the point of it being easy you see That early on, almost anything can be spun in a way that looks town. No one actually has any evidence that early on so it's VERY easy to make any comment look town. If it were that hard mafia would never win because they would never act like town. Anyway, I think it's useless to speculate on that. It's only my opinion anyway, and I only gave it because you asked specifically. There's no way to tell what that comment says about Exo until at least another day of voting. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 14 2014 01:15 marvellosity wrote: Actually it means Exo is quite likely to be town. Also batsnacks is very likely to be town based on only KotC's filter. That's the two useful associations from that flip and filter. Like I said before, mafia almost never throw out an "easy" solid townread on a scumbuddy as their opening read. Even less likely that someone who is bad at scum would do so. It's dangerous to assume things are that simple based on one flip. Based on that flip you're also VERY likely to be town, but 100% confirmation takes more information and more gameplay because things are not always that simple. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 14 2014 03:00 mattisfoolish wrote: Mz being vigi would explain his difference in play Matt Don't have time to look into it but isn't this strange? Blues don't typically want to stand out. Generally they want to be indistinguishable to green townies. Even if you're town and you think he's a vigi, why would you attempt to identify him for the mafia? If you really thought he was a vigi, it'd actually be best to leave him be because he's useful to the mafia at the moment. The comment was totally unnecessary. If you're mafia, this could easily be a way to defend a fellow mafia by looking like you're doing work for the town and contributing when all you're doing is helping confuse people further. Let MZ defend himself. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
1st post: Why is it not logical to closely observe cases that seem to have the most steam? When you're short on time you can't reinvent the wheel and observe every case from the ground up. You also misconstrue my intent. I observe the cases not because I trust them but because I'm actually forming my own opinion about the case. The difference here is that I'm choosing which ones that were debated and have work done on them already so I can contribute my thoughts to those cases rather than try to start over with a case that I can not keep pushing due to time constraints. 2nd post: He doesn't just not want to vote, he ignores someone asking him about the case, which was the steaming bandwagon. Also, you need to read again, I did mention myself and Koshi. I considered both myself AND Koshi as easy cases that everyone was jumping on. And you're point about him wanting to lynch Koshi. Look how strongly he actually wants to lynch Koshi. He really doesn't try to explain anything or change any opinions after his first post (which after that point, the bandwagon for it is long gone). It would not be suspicious if he continued fighting for a Koshi lynch but he just leaves his vote on there with no explanation or discussion despite being present as MULTIPLE bandwagons passed it. 3rd post: Was an observation to supplement the earlier post. Finding mafia isn't just one big clue, it's an accumulations of facts that don't independently prove anything. 4th post: My "self-flagellation" is actually an attempt to get town to properly assess my case. Yes, I do that on purpose because I didn't want to continue wasting votes and helping mafia by being constantly accusable with no evidence. Finally, someone has actually tried to come at me; that's good. You're just mincing words with the "potential misdirection part". It's potential misdirection because when my baseless status as a mafia suspect actually garners votes/vigi hits, it becomes actual misdirection that hurts the town in a direct way. I have no way of knowing if mafia are using me as an easy accusation for towncred; that's also misdirection, but I have no way of knowing. 5th post about the voting: I did make a case for snb, first content post. He was my 2nd lynch after ritoki and since I saw the case for snb building up and I wouldn't be back in time to vote or participate in further developments, I left my vote on snb. I stated that long before KoC happened. SnB looks more town to me after that lynch and Exo/Sinani looked more mafia after the lynch. How is it hard to understand that circumstances change. On the first day there's no evidence to go by so you have to look at more abstract and unverifiable evidence. The original case on SnB actually wasn't that strong either (I'd say it was as strong as Marv's KoC case, actually), but it was the 2nd strongest that I could come up with on my first content post. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
Why would I accuse them of not addressing KoC when I myself didn't even do it? Because I wasn't even there, and they were. You are tunnel visioning me and not looking at the circumstances surrounding the posts. Exo and Sinani were post lynch, the first post with snb was initial thoughts before any results were there. The first post you quoted was the source of everyone jumping on me. It was a post that I made before even playing the game. I'm not even going to respond to that because I've explained it almost immediately after it got called out the first time. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 12 2014 12:38 ketomai wrote: Actually, since I won't be back in time for the end of the mafia day tomorrow and won't have a chance to change my vote, I'll change it to strongandbig, so it doesn't have a high chance of being a useless vote. I guess if strongandbig actually arrives to defend himself, it better be dazzling because my vote can't change. None of my cases were strong and neither was anyone else's including the case on KoC. I drop SnB post-lynch because he's less likely to be mafia and the case against him wasn't that strong to begin with. Notice that I had maybe a 3 hour window 24 hours after the start of the game to make my vote for the first game day. That's 24 hours of information, you are reading too hard into nothing. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 14 2014 09:15 roundabound wrote: Sltop lying ketomai If I was on comp I would quote. .in that first day post about ppl being voted. .u named 3 people as possible scum. Koshi and snb have "slight" modifiers. .ritoky Is clearly the strongest read portrayed at that window of time. Scum scum scum ~moc Right, and I did vote for ritoky, before changing because I would not be around to push that bandwagon. I thought SnB was almost an equally good vote which actually had other people looking into it. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
Haru/Rainbow: Can't tell because they're both only attacking each other but it seems so forced that I can't help but suspect one or both are mafia. Having a feud like this gives an easy way to stash your vote so that it doesn't matter. There's other evidence that makes me believe either one of them could be mafia, but not strong enough yet. round: can't tell if bad or trying to stir up trouble as mafia. Could also be an easy way to stash the vote, as I've theorized in the past about me being easy misdirection. marv: more town than before, to address my previous concerns. My theory would've been that there's mafia somewhere between jat, obiwan, and palmar that helped him start the wagon to bus KoC. It's still a possibility that votes 3/4 were mafia, but assuming marv is mafia, Palmar seemed like such a likely mafia case because he sheeped him so automatically early that it was easy to sheep him whenever without suspicion. I would have thought Palmar would have been mafia because he'd need the obvious sheep help on pushing a KoC case from literally nowhere. sinani: Still believe he's mafia. Has not contributed at all except pops up immediately when someone defends him. Still has not done anything but defend himself and vote the easy vote on me. Doesn't provide content because he's happy with round's shitty and unreadable post. I can't believe anyone in their right mind would use that post. I'm all for a MIF lynch. His flip will reveal a good deal about sandroba anyway, so it's nice. Also if he flips mafia, jat and marv are pretty much 100% town for me. I want a sinani lynch but it's too late to get more information out of him in time so I suppose we can save that later. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
My theory is just to caution the possibility. It was just a possibility that I wanted to warn the town about but obviously if you net 2 mafia kills, it's very unlikely. My reason for the theory is that KoC's lynch was too easy and the bandwagon started too fast off of Palmar, you and Obi. It came out of nowhere and wasn't all that strong. Yes, it's unlikely that 1KP was sacrificed that early, but it's not impossible. A strategy from mafia like this could be devastating if executed correctly, proven by how nobody but myself found it weird at all. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
2) Because I actually have a case on sinani and have made cases on other people. I am by no means tunneling him like he is tunneling me. I'm not even voting for him for an "easy" vote. 3) Nothing strong. Haru's case is stronger (see day 1 vote, see start of altercation) | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 15 2014 23:25 roundabound wrote: I can't shake this feeling. All your responses read to me like a guy that is prepared for an interview. All the token stuff I want hear. It perturbs me. I do agree between about hsaru though. Can I have your current assessment of koshi pls. ~moc And your accusations read like garbage (and it's not just me). I don't really care what you think because you don't even have a legit case because you're misreading (literally) almost everything. This is the last question I answer from you: I have not looked into Koshi. I also can't tell because people have said he's had a history of being stupid. His day 1 votes look town. His day 2 vote looks a little strange since he defended kush before and he's also made a play to swing the bandwagon momentum in a huge way for a shitty reason. I pretty much started ignoring him after his first content post. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
I definitely can not keep up this level of reading this week. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
Apologies. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On June 21 2014 13:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote: you are incredibly lucky someone decided to do a dumb thing and basically kill himself. Hey, if ritoky ends up mafia, that's town points for me. I was the first to call him out. And yea I know I'm not playing this game very much but it can't be helped. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
| ||
| ||
