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On April 30 2014 04:35 Sweetfrost wrote:
What remarks were joking and/or sarcastic since I became a suspect?
Well as stated before your "You're right I'm Mafia" and you asking for advice how to act more as a townie is the prime reason I suspect you. Do keep in mind that I'm suspecting you, not accusing you. It's still day 1 and I'm still not sure about anything.
As I stated they two people I suspect as Scum is you and Bunny. I'm haven't decided where to cast my vote yet.
That was before I became a suspect, that's the post I became a suspect for, so when you're saying: "I must agree that Yell0ws joking claims makes him a prime suspect. I feel he tries way to hard to convince everyone that he's not scum with his joking and sarcastic remarks."
You're just straight up not making any sense since I didn't use sarcasm or made jokes since that and you just seem to retake exactly what tamburini said, which is extremely suspicious. And that was just one remark, you said remarkS.
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@bunnies
He actually previously stated that you or me were mafia, but not both.
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So Eden voted against me in the voting thread and didn't say why here, so I'm pretty curious.
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So I thought about Eden's post a little bit and basically most of what he says is really inconsistent with his behavior last night where he didn't seem to think I was mafia, yet half of his points are things I said during that time, I mean why didn't he bring it up then when I was under fire?
So few things, first I already talked about bunnies and my reasoning as to why I think she's town, you didn't bring anything more that wasn't already said here. Second, you were the first to move off the conversation about me when bunnies unvoted me and you started voting other people and stuff, so I have no idea how you could possibly bring up that as an argument against me. Also, I didn't say she was insane and I see no issue with disagreeing with someone's reasoning and still thinking they're town. Third, you actually think knowing what other people think isn't important as town? I think it's primordial to the game, if you know what they think you know what alignment they are. I do not understand your logic here.
And the rest is about how I whined and wasn't proactive, so I don't how or where I whined, but I agree that I wasn't proactive, though I think I was more proactive than others. The reason I haven't been proactive is, well first I was being attacked, but also I don't like telling all my reads early in day 1, I think it's counter productive because if I say this or this thing that person did seemed mafia to me, they can easily change their behavior, so I don't say everything I think. And yes I have pretty much only been saying things other said before, except when I was asked questions. I think you're reading way too much into me thinking you were suspicious last night, I wasn't analyzing, it was just a gut feeling at the time, while I was being attacked, today I looked at it and you didn't seem that suspicious.
I really don't get the part about Sweetfrost though, yes I just brought it up after Epishade, but how is what I said not an important piece of information here? His post seems to indicate he didn't read the thread, it says I have been making multiple sarcastic or joking remarks, which I haven't been, it felt to me like he was agreeing hard with tamburini without really knowing why.
interaction with bunnies isn't good at all
You seemed fine with it yesterday.
way too defensive
I don't see how, you didn't make that case at all.
not proactive or scumhunting at all
That's the only decent argument you have, and if that's just it, there are better targets here, in my opinion.
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So basically you're just saying the same things again? Okay, I answered everything there already in previous posts, except the last part, which players haven't been proactive or scumhunting.
So here goes, in no specific orders:
mysterymeat1, I don't think he did anything at all, yet seems present in the thread just lurking.
ahswtini, basically just said he didn't like sarcasm because it caused confusion and said that he didn't suspect tamburini and was on the fence on sweetfrost, that's pretty much it, no suspicious read at all.
I think dfs also hasn't said much, he did say tamburini was suspicious, don't quite remember if someone said it before though.
And I disagree with the second part of your question.
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@ritoky
No, I said there was better targets in people who haven't been proactive or scumhunting, since that was his only good argument, in my opinion. So when Eden asked what those better targets where, he was asking who I thought was less proactive and not scumhunting than me, of course he tried to make it seem like that wasn't his query, but it was. So I answered and said who I thought wasn't doing these things. So I'm saying these are the better lynch targets, if we're lynching people for not being proactive and scumhunting.
They are not my biggest scum reads, because he wasn't asking for that.
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But I can give my thoughts about your big post last page, the reason I didn't at first is I was thinking about Eden's accusatory post.
Basically I'm not sure about Tamburini, his attack on me seemed odd and bold if he's mafia, but the fact that he basically dodged to answer as to why he's so intent on killing makes me think he's scum, but if he's town, he has been a terrible town leader, obviously I disagree with where you say towns shouldn't try to appear as town, I think that's silly, I said that before.
I agree on sqrt, but he did seem to be trying to start conversations when there wasn't one, I just don't think he was doing anything when there was one.
I disagree about Epishade, he seems town to me, I don't think his play makes sense if he's mafia and you did not convince me otherwise, but I would like to hear more though. Obviously I know I'm town and you don't, so he's fishier from your point of view I guess.
And my scum reads now, since you asked:
I don't like Sweetfrost at all, I asked him a question, he clearly didn't answer properly and then ignored anything I said. He seems to be pretty convinced me or bunnies are mafia, I think his case on bunnies is pretty weak, and his case on me is confused and is basically exactly what Tamburini said. Then he votes against sqrt because of what you said, not giving any other reason. I think he might be pretending to be scumhunting, going after someone we aren't going to kill now so it's pointless anyways and a waste of discussion in bunnies and then me and sqrt which he only gave someone else's reasons why. Also the fact that at multiple instances he shows he didn't read the thread, he thinks bunnies is a guy, he says stuff like... "As soon as Yell0w became a suspect he(bunnies) has been pushing his guiltiness hard." So clearly not aware that bunnies is the one who thought I was suspicious at first and said I made mutliple sarcastic remarks after being a suspect. He answered one of my question, didn't do it properly and then ignored when I said what he said didn't make sense. So, in my head, I felt like Sweetfrost seemed allied with Tamburini, they gave the exact same reasons to lynch me and bunnies was being suspicious of Tamburini when Sweetfrost said bunnies was suspicious.
But I don't know how to feel about Tamburini, though definitely leaning scum, I thought he was really scummy at first, but thinking about it his play seems like a really weird mafia play, and then reading his posts, his attitude just irritates me so maybe that's why I put him in mafia in my head. Just when he says he wants to lynch me for sarcasm and then uses sarcasm himself was pretty annoying to me. But like I said earlier, he didn't answer questions when asked and disappeared, then came back to say he had the right to disappear if he chose to and then left again, still without answering. That felt really scummy to me. And his attack on me felt like he waited for me to leave to say that he thought I was scummy since the start! But somehow didn't say anything before. Maybe he thought he could get an easy lynch because of the way he made my question sound and the fact I wasn't there to defend myself.
I'd be willing to lynch either of them.
And now as to why you shouldn't vote against me, I think the reason I came back to the center of attention is because the question I asked you which I thought you didn't answer properly by the way, and I don't really know why that question seems so indicative of mafia play in people's minds. I basically wanted to know how you would have acted in that situation, I thought it would give me insight into your play style, I still don't understand what was wrong with it. Nor would I ever see a mafia asking "how to be more town?" in a thread like this, it's pretty silly to me that people think a mafia could slip up that way.
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And I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on Sweetfrost and Tamburini.
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@Eden
I answered all of your points in either my response to you or in other posts, restating your points again doesn't mean I have to answer again, actually counter-argue my arguments and I might reply to you, please don't just link to another logical fallacy without saying anything.
@ritoky
Regarding tamburini, I just want to make sure you're not reading him as not scummy just because you think that, if he is, he will slip up later. He hasn't been leading town, has been barely active at all yet he claimed town leader. So I don't know what more you want, it's very suspicious to me, he could just keep acting this way, when will you start thinking he's mafia?
I just feel right now I became the center of attention because of one small sarcastic comment I made before any real discussion started and stayed there since then, so I'm the obvious lynch, both for townies and for scums, and that worries me.
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The two persons I suspect the most have either ignored me or they didn't answer questions asked at them and disappeared, what else am I supposed to do, force them to answer? I talked about Sweetfrost a bunch, people seemed to disagree with me and he ignored me and tamburini disappeared when people started questioning his actions. Well, he did reappear for a few seconds to make a sarcastic reply and leave again.
I engaged both of those people and I don't think you can deny that.
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@amiko
The fact he voted against me right after bunnies unvoted me is the only reason I'm not 100% convinced he's mafia, I think he's mafia for his attitude after voting against me and the fact he still hasn't answered bunnies' questions. Also he felt to me like Sweetfrost was just agreeing with him for no reason, so they felt like mafia partners to me. But, just to make it clear, I agree with your number 2 points there, that is a weird mafia play, but still possible, especially since he claimed town leader, so he needs to appear like he's leading town by pushing lynch.
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@amiko
So who are your scumreads? Is it still me and Eden?
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So just to talk about some things that happened since my last post real fast
I thought Epishade was town, but now I can see how he could be scummy, defending me and attacking my attackers maybe to be seen as town if I get mislynch today and he seems to be protecting sqrt pretty hard in my opinion, so that's something to look at.
Mysterymeat first of all saying he was inactive because he had "shit due tomorrow" is inconsistent with earlier when he clearly seemed there and reading the thread, but said he didn't have anything to post, so that's suspicious.
Sweetfrost still thinks me or bunnies is scum, yet he doesn't seem to be doing anything to prove his point, the guy hasn't interacted with me at all even when I tried to engage him.
Dravernor made a long post not saying anything that wasn't said before, he's the most suspicious of Epishade, yet his case against him is really weak and other people made much stronger cases against epishade. I also don't think Eden made a strong case against me, and just saying he did doesn't make it so. I think dravernor needs to be more specifics in what he says, because the way he's talking seems suspicious to me, all fluff and no substance.
And with what mysterymeat just said, despite that I think he's suspicious, I'm fine with not lynching today and lynching him tomorrow if he doesn't become noticeably more useful.
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So, basically here, we have to let tamburini off the hook because he claimed vigi and we can't lynch someone who might become a confirmed town if I do die during the night. If I don't die we can kill him tomorrow.
I'm just not sure why he would claim now without really saying anything else, why, if he mishoots, he's gonna sit in a corner and be useless, since he's gonna be a confirmed town and why he went so hard on me when he can just kill me in the night if he's convinced I'm mafia.
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@Eden
I didn't even consider serial killer, never played with any third party role before, but it does make a lot of sense with what he just said.
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So I originally thought lynching a claimed vigi was a bad idea, but honestly, after reading arguments, Eden convinced me, I feel tamburini's play is more indicative of SK, but also, I think there is no way to even know if he is vigi unless we kill him. There is so many possible roles and things that could happen during the nights, the chance of us having an actual confirmed town in tamburini, if he is vigi, are pretty low, and would only come after night 2. But it's, I think, too risky because if he's SK, we probably lost 4 towns in 2 nights instead of just 2.
So in conclusion,
Huge downsides: 2 kp instead of 1
Small upsides: we might get a confirmed town in 2 days.
And I don't get how we can have a confirmed town tomorrow, in any scenario I can think of, if he's alive tomorrow morning, what ever happened, I wouldn't trust what he says. And the fact I originally thought we would have a confirmed town tomorrow if he survives the night is why I didn't think we should lynch him, but I forgot about the possibility of him being sk.
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Also, ritoky, I am pretty sure mysterymeat1 was third to vote against tamburini, not ahs.
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So I've been thinking about it, and since I have to vote now, because I can't be back before the deadline, I was hoping there would have been more discussion so I could make a more informed vote, but I'm gonna vote for tamburini.
I was on the fence between sweetfrost and tamburini, I said why I thought they were scummy, but I just can't get behind tamburini's actions and overall uselessness to town, the only thing he did was tunneling hard on me and then claiming vigi out of nowhere. I don't think what he did made any sense if he's the actual vigi. He didn't even come close to being the town leader he promised us to be and he didn't even try to defend himself from suspicions, he just claimed vigi.
I don't think he's the vigi and I think if he is, it's a good risk to take, because we don't actually get anything from him being the vigi since he's not being active at all, just a random shot in the night from someone who can't even seem to read the whole thread since it gives him a headache, and we won't get a confirmed town because he could always be the serial killer, and it's really bad for us if he is sk and we don't lynch him.
##VOTE mtamburini
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So since I might get killed by tamburini, so just a few thoughts here.
I don't think this lynch was made by mafia, most likely scenario is we didn't scare mafia enough, so they just voted randomly. So if I am alive tomorrow, I'd probably look at some guys who didn't get votes against them and didn't vote for sweetfrost, I'd say at most one mafia voted against him, my bet would be sqrt. So I'd look towards the quiet people, like ahs, dravernor or mysterymeat, maybe dfs. That obviously depends on what happens during the night though.
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Oh hey I'm alive, really thought I was gonna die.
Can't say I'm surprised Amiko was killed though, he seemed like the most useful town.
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EPT
