On October 21 2022 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why not just Vivax and Dirkzor?
I'm okay with anyone aside for JX, then i am quit. I dont play with people who dont want to win in the first place.
I was just saying hi to be friendly to you. It has been more than 6 fucking years man. I can't believe you're still mad and accusing me of this haahahaha.
Now I have to defend myself because other people don't know what had happened and they might have the wrong impression.
On October 21 2022 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why not just Vivax and Dirkzor?
I'm okay with anyone aside for JX, then i am quit. I dont play with people who dont want to win in the first place.
I was just saying hi to be friendly to you. It has been more than 6 fucking years man. I can't believe you're still mad and accusing me of this haahahaha.
Now I have to defend myself because other people don't know what had happened and they might have the wrong impression.
The UI of the site is very annoying and confusing to me. Also one time i made apparently two moves that i definitely didn't submit.
A couple of times it wouldnt accept my orders, like the "save" button just wouldnt do anything for X amount of time. One thing that was good was that you may only submit orders that are valid, like you dont have the option to make invalid moves, chances of fucking up something because you didnt know something are less.
I am a little bit annoyed though, for the fact i didn't have the time needed to actually do something i would possibly want to do. Mderg got into a bit of a rough spot early losing Stp and Grack and Slam were doing pretty well so i pretty much had to stick with mderg and Dirkzor just to even have a chance of any kind of victory. Then imo Slam made a slight error in mediterranean which allowed me and Dirk to break through there. There was probably one turn when i had a chance to try go solo but unfortunately that was the worst time for me since we were just about to travel like three days straight and i really didn't have a chance to plan anything accordingly, and even a small mistake would ruin my chances completely since i would have pretty much no allies anymore.
I also told both Slam and Grack that the onnly way i am breaking the southern alliance was if one attacked the other one. I was quite surprised they never went for that, especially Grack after Slam started losing ground hard and it was starting to be clear Chezinu wouldn't be any help for anyone anymore.
On December 31 2022 03:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: The UI of the site is very annoying and confusing to me. Also one time i made apparently two moves that i definitely didn't submit.
A couple of times it wouldnt accept my orders, like the "save" button just wouldnt do anything for X amount of time. One thing that was good was that you may only submit orders that are valid, like you dont have the option to make invalid moves, chances of fucking up something because you didnt know something are less.
I am a little bit annoyed though, for the fact i didn't have the time needed to actually do something i would possibly want to do. Mderg got into a bit of a rough spot early losing Stp and Grack and Slam were doing pretty well so i pretty much had to stick with mderg and Dirkzor just to even have a chance of any kind of victory. Then imo Slam made a slight error in mediterranean which allowed me and Dirk to break through there. There was probably one turn when i had a chance to try go solo but unfortunately that was the worst time for me since we were just about to travel like three days straight and i really didn't have a chance to plan anything accordingly, and even a small mistake would ruin my chances completely since i would have pretty much no allies anymore.
I also told both Slam and Grack that the onnly way i am breaking the southern alliance was if one attacked the other one. I was quite surprised they never went for that, especially Grack after Slam started losing ground hard and it was starting to be clear Chezinu wouldn't be any help for anyone anymore.
I think we both saw that as a ploy to get us to fall apart even faster
But how does that change the outcome in case you're going to fall apart anyways? Like there could be even a chance that it benefits you when the other outcome is pretty much always lose?
On December 31 2022 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: But how does that change the outcome in case you're going to fall apart anyways? Like there could be even a chance that it benefits you when the other outcome is pretty much always lose?
When you messaged it was completely drawn between France/Italy and you didn't really suggest anything except that I should stab Slam.
Stabbing Slam at that point is just inviting the outcome that took place imo. I didn't anticipate that Slam's position would collapse, though I guess I should have offered more assistance with moves to help keep the stalemate.
Chez/Slam were pretty open that they were going to stick together and were coordinating moves, so I tried to sneak my way into their alliance rather than try to take on France/Germany as England.
On December 31 2022 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: But how does that change the outcome in case you're going to fall apart anyways? Like there could be even a chance that it benefits you when the other outcome is pretty much always lose?
To avoid being seen as gullible/stupid for my part, remember I know you personally outside the game too lol :p
So
I decided to try to hold out as long as I could, which wasn't very
On December 31 2022 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: But how does that change the outcome in case you're going to fall apart anyways? Like there could be even a chance that it benefits you when the other outcome is pretty much always lose?
When you messaged it was completely drawn between France/Italy and you didn't really suggest anything except that I should stab Slam.
Stabbing Slam at that point is just inviting the outcome that took place imo. I didn't anticipate that Slam's position would collapse, though I guess I should have offered more assistance with moves to help keep the stalemate.
Was it? Then i am misremembering. Because i thought we had some discussion about it when we took over mediterranean and there was a turn where i could have taken 3 of dirkzor's centers and 1 of mderg's immediately no contest.
I don't think there was much chance for you to offer assistance since you had that russia rogue fleet "behind your lines" and you needed units to deal with that effectively. When it was gone Slam had already lost position.
In any case, your suggestion was that i attack either italy or russia and you keep your alliance with france, i am not completely sure how that would have ever helped me gaining better position, since the best outcome for me would be the same i was already achieving most likely (3-way victory, we knew we can get through slam, it was rock-paper-scissors and at some point he would guess wrong anyways). I would just include the risk of elimination for no gain.
That's why i wanted you and france to fight in order for me to fight mderg/dirkzor, i was pretty open about it.
Edit: In my opinion, if you would have betrayed France (aka take more centers), i think there was a chance for you to be included in the draw (i think, i might be wrong though). And what better for you if i (or any of us three) also start fighting my allies. The only thing we feared was that you gain a stalemate position on your own, which was very close at least we thought so, that's why we pushed everything in the mediterranean, lucking out on complete trust on each other.
On December 31 2022 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: But how does that change the outcome in case you're going to fall apart anyways? Like there could be even a chance that it benefits you when the other outcome is pretty much always lose?
To avoid being seen as gullible/stupid for my part, remember I know you personally outside the game too lol :p
So
I decided to try to hold out as long as I could, which wasn't very
Technically yes, that was probably the correct play for you. You might have held with Grack in case he got rid of mderg's fleet quickly enough. So yeah, you're right, there was a chance you succeed, albeit small one.
On December 31 2022 09:22 Grackaroni wrote: I also felt my alliances were semi-forced.
Yeah, that's usually what happens, same for me. I had no communication with Vivax so i had really no choice early on, and Slam (and you) took a lot of shit pretty early so i don't think i had many alternate choices than what i made.
On December 31 2022 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: But how does that change the outcome in case you're going to fall apart anyways? Like there could be even a chance that it benefits you when the other outcome is pretty much always lose?
When you messaged it was completely drawn between France/Italy and you didn't really suggest anything except that I should stab Slam.
Stabbing Slam at that point is just inviting the outcome that took place imo. I didn't anticipate that Slam's position would collapse, though I guess I should have offered more assistance with moves to help keep the stalemate.
Was it? Then i am misremembering. Because i thought we had some discussion about it when we took over mediterranean and there was a turn where i could have taken 3 of dirkzor's centers and 1 of mderg's immediately no contest.
I don't think there was much chance for you to offer assistance since you had that russia rogue fleet "behind your lines" and you needed units to deal with that effectively. When it was gone Slam had already lost position.
In any case, your suggestion was that i attack either italy or russia and you keep your alliance with france, i am not completely sure how that would have ever helped me gaining better position, since the best outcome for me would be the same i was already achieving most likely (3-way victory, we knew we can get through slam, it was rock-paper-scissors and at some point he would guess wrong anyways). I would just include the risk of elimination for no gain.
That's why i wanted you and france to fight in order for me to fight mderg/dirkzor, i was pretty open about it.
Edit: In my opinion, if you would have betrayed France (aka take more centers), i think there was a chance for you to be included in the draw (i think, i might be wrong though). And what better for you if i (or any of us three) also start fighting my allies. The only thing we feared was that you gain a stalemate position on your own, which was very close at least we thought so, that's why we pushed everything in the mediterranean, lucking out on complete trust on each other.
I don't really think that's where things went wrong tbh. When you messaged me you said it would be a 5 way draw unless I made a stab, and I messaged that I thought you/me/France would make the most sense but that I'd be open to other options, though I wouldn't be able to do anything at all until I disbanded the Russian fleet like you said. Then Slam's position collapsed the next year.
Once the stalemate was broken and the three of you were making progress together I felt I was pretty sunk, though I tried a bit to encourage stabs. The next message I got from you was that I was lost, which was true.
To me the game decider was actually a small tactical detail in Fall 1904. I think Slam needed to use Gulf of Lyon to cut support from Piedmont to guarantee retaking Marseilles rather than supporting. With that small change I think our units would have been in place to hold position for a stalemate line. That's as much my fault as his since I didn't send any messages to talk about orders.
EPT
