The Mafia Spreadsheet

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gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 04:23 GMT

The Super Mafia Spreadsheet

By gonzaw

Introduction:

The Super Mafia Spreadsheet (yeah, I suck at names, if someone can come up with a better one then we can change it

), is a template to create spreadsheets, that allow hosts, players, and observers to keep up with the game, and gives them tools to improve their experience.
Hosts can easily create the spreadsheet by using web interfaces, as well as manage it when it runs. They can also have all the necessary info easily accessible in said spreadsheet.
Players can have that info accessible as well. They will also have automatic votecounts to instantly check, as well as an accurate countdown to the deadline in every cycle.

Each spreadsheet includes features like:

Player list, with the roles and alignments of all flipped players, as well as a link to their filters
General information about the game. For example, what the current cycle it is, who the hosts and cohosts are, as well as having a link to their filters, when is the deadline to the current cycle, as well as a list of possible roles, etc
Info about each cycle, with the players that died, got modkilled, or got lynched. It also includes the deadlines for each cycle, and in day cycles a table of who voted who, along an automatic votecount

The purpose of this spreadsheet is for hosts to update it as the game goes along, so players and observers alike can have the most current info possible.
It may also server as a quick game database. For instance, if you want to quickly check info about a specific game (which players it had, who died in which cycle, etc), then you go to that game's spreadsheet and get that info.

Structure:

The structure of the spreadsheet is divided in 5:

Information Tab
General Tab
Players Tab
Day Phase Tab
Night Phase Tab

Information Tab:

The Information Tab has the same info this guide has (in a shorter format). If as a host or player, you forget to do a specific action, and don’t have access to this thread, then you can quickly check the Information Tab and find out what you want to do.

General Tab:

The General Tab has (as its name says), general information about the game.

Link to the game:
This panel has the link to the mafia game in question
Host:
This panel has the username and filter of the host of the game. If you want to PM the host, you can just click his filter, check any post of his, and click the “PM” button
Cohosts:
This is a list of (up to 5) cohosts for the game. Each cohosts has a username and a filter, the same as the host has.
For spreadsheet reasons, the cohost list can only have a maximum amount of cohosts. For now it is 5, which I think is a reasonable amount
Endgame Post:
This panel will have the link to the endgame post, once the game is over
Roles:
This is just an informative panel. The host can include the names of the roles and their description. However, it’s not necessary since those will be in the game’s OP, and the roles themselves play no part in the logic of the spreadsheet (as of now)
Number of Players:
This panel shows the number of players total, the ones that are alive at the current cycle, and the ones that are dead at the current cycle
Current Cycle:
Shows the current cycle of the game. It is either “Day” or “Night” phase, with the cycle next to it.
Game Status:
Shows the status of the current game. It can be in pregame, running, or it could end in a town win, a mafia win, a 3rd party win, or a draw.
Deadline:
Shows the deadline for the current cycle. It is in the timezone the host decides it to be (it’s up to him)
Time:
Shows the current time. It is in the timezone the host decides it to be (it’s up to him)
Time before deadline:
It just uses the difference between the “Deadline” and “Time” times, to show how much time is left before the deadline. It shows it in terms of days, and in terms of time. It updates ifself every minute (doesn’t include seconds).

Players Tab:

The Players tab has information about every player in the game.

Username:
Shows the username of a player in the game
Alignment:
Once a player dies, it shows the alignment he has
Role:
Once a player dies, it shows the role he has
Fate:
Once a player dies, or the game ends, it shows his fate. If the player died, it tells you in which cycle he died, and in which way he did so. For instance, if it says “Lynched D2”, it means that player was lynched on D2, etc. There are 3 possible death causes (Lynched, Modkilled, Killed). If the player was alive when the game ended, it will state “Endgame”
Filter:
Shows the filter of that player

Day Phase Tab:

There exists a Day Phase Tab for every day phase in the game. E.g “Day 1”, “Day 2”, etc.
This tab has all the information about that day phase.

Nº Players Start of Cycle:
It shows the number of players that were alive when the cycle started. This number remains the same no matter who dies in the day phase
Nº Players Current:
This shows the number of players currently alive in the day phase. This number differs from the above, in the sense that if someone dies in the middle of the day phase, this number is reduced. For example, if a player is modkilled in the middle of the day, this number is reduced by 1
Day Post:
Shows the link to the day post in the thread.
Deadline:
Shows you when is the deadline for this day phase (same as in the General Tab).
Time:
Shows you the current time (same as in the General Tab).
Time Before Deadline:
Shows you the amount of days and time before the deadline hits (same as in the General Tab)
Lynch:
Once the day phase ends, next to this panel will show the name of the player that got lynched, or nothing if there was a NL.
Modkills:
Shows the players that got modkilled in this day phase
Player Deaths:
Shows the players that died in this phase for other reasons. These could be: day vig shot, nuke, assassin shot, kingmaker lynch, etc. These player deaths can be instantaneous (like a day vig), or happen right at the deadline (like a nuke). Both appear the same in this panel.
Votes:
This panel shows the votes and votecount for the current cycle.
Username: It shows the name of the player
Vote: It shows who that player is voting
Votecount: Shows the current votecount, considering the votes in the “Vote” column.

Night Phase Tab:

There exists a Night Phase Tab for every night phase in the game. E.g “Night 1”, “Night 2”, etc.
This tab has all the information about that nightphase.

Nº Players Start of Cycle:
It shows the number of players that were alive when the cycle started. This number remains the same no matter who dies in the night phase
Nº Players Current:
This shows the number of players currently alive in the night phase. This number differs from the above, in the sense that if someone dies in the middle of the night phase, this number is reduced. For example, if a player is modkilled in the middle of the night, this number is reduced by 1
Night Post:
Shows the link to the night post in the thread.
Deadline:
Shows you when is the deadline for this night phase (same as in the General Tab).
Time:
Shows you the current time (same as in the General Tab).
Time Before Deadline:
Shows you the amount of days and time before the deadline hits (same as in the General Tab)
Modkills:
Shows the players that got modkilled in this night phase
Player Deaths:
Shows the players that died in this night phase. Mafia night kills are included, but it can also be any other player death, like a vig shot, etc.

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 04:23 GMT

Host Guide:

This is a guide showing hosts what they have to do to set up the spreadsheet, and manage it as the game is playing.
Note: I’ll be using “Shadowed Mini Mafia: The Reboot” as an example in the following guide.

Creating the Spreadsheet:

To create the spreadsheet, I believe you first need to be logged into a Google Account.
After that, go to the following link:
https://script.google.com/macros/s/AKfycby3CS5G2-CBqOWYpjluDn1b0qTrJiMUSw7CosjlZjaIsbCmKHo1/exec
A web page will appear
[image loading]

Here you need to introduce information about the game, so the spreadsheet can be created

Game Name:
Name of the game. This will create the title of the spreadsheet, as well as the title it shows in the General Tab
Link to the Game:
Link to the thread. This will include the link to the game in the General Tab, as well as be the basis to create the filters of the hosts, cohosts and players
Host:
Username of the host of the game
Cohosts:
List with the cohosts of the game. Add a new cohost pressing the “Add a Co-host” button, and remove cohosts by pressing the “x” button next to one. You can include at most 5 co-hosts, but if you want you can also include none
Players:
List with the players of the game. As with cohosts, use the buttons to add or remove players. You must include the exact username of the player (since the filter of him will be created based on it). Also, you have to at least include 1 player.

When you are done, click the “Create” button. If you had an error in the form, a red text will appear above with the info that was wrong. If everything went smoothly, a link “Go to Spreadsheet” will appear at the bottom. Follow this link to go to your newly created spreadsheet

Setting up the Spreadsheet:

Now that the spreadsheet is created, you first need to set some things before being able to start

Setting up the library:

First of all, you need to use the “SuperMafiaSpreadsheet” library. This is the code responsible for creating the menus, automatic votecount, and formatting in the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet alone can’t do that stuff.

To start, you need to go to the Tools -> Script Editor menu in the spreadsheet

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You’ll appear in a new web site, with a bunch of stuff going on. First of all, save your script with CTRL+S, and give it any name you want (it doesn’t matter)

[image loading]

Afterwards, you need to open the Resources -> Libraries menu

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A window will popup.
In the place where it says Find a Library, you need to input this code:
M64jWnK3Y8YuXKFuOs8B6ih586WaA0cXN
Afterwards, click Select. New info will appear above. This is the SuperMafiaSpreadsheet library, and doing this indicates that you will be using it.
In the Version box, check the latest version you can find (right now it is version 66). In the Identifier box, be sure to not touch it, and make sure it says “SuperMafiaSpreadsheet”. In the Development Mode, be sure it says “Off”.
After that, click Save

[image loading]

Afterwards, copy this code into the open file you have in front of you (most likely called “Code.gs”):

Then hit CTRL+S to save the file, and leave the Script Editor menu. Make sure to refresh the page (hit F5) to make sure all changes are applied.

[image loading]

Setting up the Timezone:

Now it is time to determine what timezone the deadlines will be in.
To do so, go to the File -> Spreadsheet Settings menu

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In the timezone box, select which timezone you want the game to be in

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Make sure you tell the players what timezone it is, or that you write it somewhere.
All the dates and times in the spreadsheet will use this timezone from now on. This includes the deadlines, and the current time shown in various tabs/sheets

Sharing the spreadsheet with cohosts and players:

The spreadsheet is now ready to go. However, you need players, observers and cohosts to have access to it now.
To do so, first head to the File -> Share menu

[image loading]

Share with cohosts:
Cohosts will be able to edit the spreadsheet, and do any action you can do. This means they can end any of the day/night phases, modkill players, edit any cell from the spreadsheet, etc.
In the new window that popups, introduce the gmail address of every cohosts into the Invite people box (each address separated by a comma).
Make sure it says Can edit at the right, and that the Notify people via email checkbox is active. After that, hit the Send button

[image loading]

Share with players and observers:
Players and observers can view every tab of the spreadsheet, but can’t edit any of them. They also can’t access the menus that allow you to manage the game.
In the previous window, under Who has access, follow the Change link.
In the new window, under Visibility options, make sure Anyone with a link is checked. Also make sure it says “Can view” next to Access

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Starting the game:

After all that, the spreadsheet is set. The only thing left is to start the game.
When the game actually starts, head to the Game Management -> Start Game menu

[image loading]

A new window will popup. Here you can include the deadline and day post for the next Day 1 cycle. However, these are not obligatory and you can include them at a later date.

Deadline:
You can input the deadline for when the Day 1 cycle will end.
The deadline is in the following format:
MM/DD/YYY hh:mm:ss
MM = Month, DD = Days, YYYY = 4 digit year, hh = hours (in 24h fashion), mm = minutes, ss = seconds.
For example, a possible deadline would be "3/2/2014 10:00:00" which is March 2nd, 2014, at 10am.

After doing so, the Day 1 tab will be created with all the necessary info.

[image loading]

You can also include any roles you want in the General Tab.

Managing Day Phases:

When a day phase is running, you can input the votes of each player into the dropdown lists below the "Votes" column. This will update the votecount automatically.

Once the day phase is over, you can end it by going to the Game Management -> End Day Phase menu

[image loading]

A new window will popup.

Lynch:
Here you will introduce the player that got lynched, and the info about his flip.
In the Player dropdown list, select the player that was lynched in the previous day phase (note that you can select “-- None --” if there was no lynch in the previous day phase).
In the Alignment dropdown list, select what alignment that player flipped. You can select between “Town”, “Mafia” and “Third Party”.
In the Role box, select the role that that player flipped.
Modkills:
In this list, you can include all players that got modkilled right at the deadline of the previous day phase. Click the Add button to add a player to modkill. A new row will appear, where you can include information similar to the previous “Lynch” category (you have to include the player, his alignment and his role). You can click the “x” delete button next to the modkilled player to delete that row
Other Deaths:
In this list, you can include all players that died at the end of the day phase for other reasons (for example, nukes). It works the same way as the modkills list from above.
Deadline and Day Post:
You can include the deadline for the next night phase, and the link to the night post, similar to previous occasions.

[image loading]

Managing Night Phases:

Managing night phases work similarly to day phases.
Once a night phase is over, head to the Game Management -> End Night Phase menu

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A new window will popup.

Night Kills:
In this list, include all players that died in the previous night cycle. The list works in the same way as previous ones (add players with the Add button, etc).
Modkills:
This list works exactly the same as in day phases. Use it when a player is modkilled right at the deadline
Deadline and NightPost:
You can include the deadline for the next day phase, and the link to the day post, similar to previous occasions.

[image loading]

Kills and Modkills:

At any cycle and phase, you can instantly modkill a player.
To do so, go to the Game Management -> Modkill Player menu

[image loading]

A new window will popup.
Like in previous menus, you have to select the player that died, and the alignment and role he flipped.

[image loading]

Also, at any cycle, you can instantly kill a player for other reasons (in-game reasons most likely). These could be an instant day-vig shot, or any other kind of instantaneous death.
To do so, go to the Game Management -> Kill Player Menu.

The menu works exactly the same as the Modkill Player one

[image loading]

End the Game:

When the game ends at a certain cycle, you will first have to end that phase (using the methods described above), before ending the game itself.
For example, if a game ends after town lynches the last scum, first you will have to end the day phase with the scum lynch, and once in the next night cycle (which would be inexistent in the actual game), and then end the game.
To end the game, go to the Game Management -> End Game menu

[image loading]

A new window will popup.

Winner faction:
Here you have to indicate which faction won the game. You can choose between “Town”, “Mafia”, “3rd party” (if the winner was Sleeper Cell, or a Serial Killer), or “Draw” if the game ended in a draw somehow.
Endgame Post:
Here you can post the link to the endgame post (from the game thread)
Remaining Players:
Here you have to post the roles and alignments of all the players still alive. Once you do, the fate of each player will be “Endgame” in the Player Tab

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Dealing with new versions of the Spreadsheet:

At some points, new versions of this spreadsheet will be released. Maybe a bug will be fixed, or a new feature will be added.
In the case the host has an ongoing game, when such new version is released, then if appropiate, he can update his spreadsheet to the new version.

In this case, just follow through the steps in Setting up the Library above. Once you arrive at the “Select a Library” step, in the Version column, select the new version (instead of the old one). Then Save, and your spreadsheet will be updated.

Note that there may be times where it’s not appropiate to update an ongoing spreadsheet to a new version. If new features are added to a new version, then doing so may break the spreadsheet. In such cases, either consult me beforehand, or just use the previous version, and only update the version in new spreadsheets you create.

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 04:24 GMT

Considerations

Does this only work for TL Mafia games?
In theory no. You can use everything in the spreadsheet for any other forum game of mafia. The thing is that the mechanism of creating filters only currently works for games in TL Mafia. If you are from another forum and create a mafia game, the filter mechanism won’t work, and maybe others won’t either. But ignoring those, yes, you can still create games and manage them.

Can I use the spreadsheet for games that have double lynches?
Yes you can. The menu itself didn’t include this option, because I thought better to start small, with normal lynches, for normal games (since double lynches is most likely reserved for heavily themed games, which I doubt would even work with this spreadsheet).
However, if you have THAT much need to use double lynches, you can do it like this:

End the day phase normally, and select 1 of the guys that were lynched
When you are done, go to the Players Tab, and kill the other player (select his alignment from the dropdown list, put his role, and put “Lynched DX” in the Fate column)
In the General Tab, reduce the number of players alive in the Number of Players panel
In the Day Phase tab he was lynched, add him to the Lynch row
In the new Night Phase tab, reduce the Nº of Players at Start of Cycle and the Nº of Players Current number by one

After doing so, everything will work as normal from the next Day Phase onwards.
This feature may be added later if it’s requested a lot.

Can I use the new Google Sheets?
No. I tried testing this with the new Google Sheets ( http://googledrive.blogspot.com/2013/12/newsheets.html ), but I kept having errors when creating the spreadsheets. Dunno, maybe you can make it work, and if you do, great, give me a tip on how it works!
However, for now, I’d tell you to not use the new Google Sheets for now if you want to create spreadsheets, or even view them (haven’t thoroughly tested this either).

What is the “app asks for authorization to run” stuff?
Nah it’s okay. It just asks you because the app creates and controls spreadsheets and stuff in your behalf, thus needs your permission to do so.

How do I deal with replacements?
Hmm. This is something I was kind of stuck when creating the spreadsheet app. I didn’t really find a way to intuitively add it to the spreadsheets. Mostly because the mechanic is a little bit complex, at least compared to other stuff about mafia games.
For now, the best bet is to just change the username of the player being replaced, with the guy that is the replacement, in every place.
Change him in the Players Tab, and change him in the Day/Night Phase tab he was replaced. Everything should work accordingly from then on.
The only thing you won’t have is info about the previous player in the Player Tab (for example the filter of the replaced).

If you have any idea how to add this in a clever and intuitive fashion to the spreadsheets, spread the word man!

Frecuently Asked Questions:

1) As a host, can I include the roles and alignments of players before the game starts?
+ Show Spoiler +

No, you need to have the alignments and roles of players written down somewhere else. In this spreadsheet, you reveal their roles and alignments as they die. You put the same information in the spreadsheet as you would in the game's thread.

2) Can we see the history of votecounts? Or just the current one?
+ Show Spoiler +

Yes, you can see the history of votecounts.
This feature was added in the 1.1 version. Check the corresponding post for more information

3) I am a player, and want to view the spreadsheet. However, I don't want my account to be shown in the "Online Users" tab! What can I do?
+ Show Spoiler +

You have 2 options. The first one is to just log out of your Gmail/Google account, and then view the spreadsheet.

However, the best option is to use a private browsing window to view it.
Google Chrome: In Google Chrome, you'd just need to go into Incognito mode (CTRL+SHIFT+N). In a new Incognito window, just paste the spreadsheet's link, and you can view it anonymously.
Firefox: Similar to Chrome, open a Private Window. Or just follow these steps: http://browsers.about.com/od/firef2/ss/How-To-Activate-Private-Browsing-In-Firefox-20_5.htm

4) Is there a "Reads" or "Thoughts" section, like you had in that spreadsheet from the "Shadowed Game: The Reboot" game?
+ Show Spoiler +

No.
The spreadsheet I made for jaybrundage in that game, was one directed only at him, and that he alone could use, view and edit.
The spreadsheet created from the process described above, is single. It is one spreadsheet alone, where every host, cohost and player has access to.
I can't add a "Reads/Thoughts" section, because nobody would be able to use it. Only hosts and cohosts can edit said spreadsheet, players can only view. Not only that, but because of the fact that EVERYBODY has access to this spreadsheet, no single player can put his reads or thoughts in it, since everybody else would be able to view it, or edit it themselves.

Don't really know how to add this feature in a future version. I'll try my best to come up with something

5) When I try to confirm an action in the menu of the spreadsheet, or try to open a menu, the spreadsheets gets stuck for a long time. Do I confirm it again, or do something?
+ Show Spoiler +

This would be some lag from the spreadsheet.
Either it is normal internet lag, or for some reason the action is taking too long to be executed in the spreadsheet server. However, it will be executed at some point
The best thing to do is to wait. If it gets stuck for too long, then maybe you could try closing the spreadsheet and opening it again.
If you are at a menu (for instance the "End Day Phase" one), do not hit the Confirm button again. This will only cause the same action to be executed twice (at some point) in the spreadsheet. This will cause the spreadsheet to have inconsistent data (for example have a player be lynched twice), and it may break the spreadsheet somehow (it's hard to know beforehand, it depends on the action, how much time was spent between the two confirmations, and more variables).
So it's safer to just wait, or close the spreadsheet and try again later (if the action hasn't completed by then)

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 04:24 GMT

Version History

Use this version history to check each new version of the Mafia Spreadsheet.
A new version of the spreadsheet can be released to:
-Fix bugs
-Add new features
-Just because

When a new version is released, the host should follow the steps described above in Dealing with new versions of the Spreadsheet.
Each version has this info:
Version Number: Just the number of the version. For instance, the 1st one is 1.0
Description: A description of the new version
Google Script Version: This is the “version” that you have to put in the “Select Library” step when you create a new mafia spreadsheet.
Link to Post: This is the link to the post in this very thread where the new version is posted.

First Release

Version Number: 1.0
Description: First release of the Mafia Spreadsheet
Google Script Version: 66
Link to Post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=445046#1

New Votecount mechanic

Version Number: 1.1
Notes:
-Now you can edit the votecount manually, without it automatically updating it (thus ruining your changes). It only updates the votecount when votes are edited, nowhere else.
-Removed data validation from the “Number of Players” section in the General Tab. There apparently was a problem with validation in the General Tab when creating a game.
-When ending a game, the host can add the scum QT and the obs QT, so they can be seen in the “General” tab
Google Script Version: 68
Link to Post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445046-the-mafia-spreadsheet?page=3#42

Voting row fix

Version Number: 1.1.1
Notes:
-Fixed problem when adding new rows to the voting count
Google Script Version: 70
Link to Post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445046-the-mafia-spreadsheet?page=3#57

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 04:26 GMT

Anyways, so enjoy.

Some other things:

If you find any problems, or think any things that should be added to new versions of it, or ways the spreadsheets can be improved, please post in this thread.

If you have any questions about it, not answered in the guides above, ask as well too (and if it's important I may add it to the FAQ section above).

I can't do everything in ever alone, at least not very fast. If this thing gets rolling, I'd appreciate someone else to help perhaps.
If you know stuff about Google Spreadsheets, Google App Script, Javascript, etc, and you want to be part of this, then feel free to PM me about it or post it here and we can improve this shit together.
Also...knowledge about that stuff above is not necessary either; it's not that hard to learn.

You can PM me about any of this stuff to me directly instead of posting it in the thread as well if you want.

Also, dunno how the procedures will work, but talk with Foolishness to know how stuff will work with these spreadsheets and hosted games, etc.

Ahoy!

Balla24

2322 Posts

March 03 2014 04:33 GMT

Why do you want to modkill me and kill me so bad

((((

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 04:35 GMT

On March 03 2014 13:33 Balla24 wrote:
Why do you want to modkill me and kill me so bad

((((

Sorry, can't help it. Your face is too killable.

Now I know why you rarely live as town in games.

Chezinu

United States7447 Posts

March 03 2014 04:37 GMT

Now, all we need is buttons for each player to push in order to vote so they don't have to type in video mafia. Then we can move on to virtual reality mafia later.

Happy 4727!!

On March 03 2014 13:23 gonzaw wrote:
if someone can come up with a better one then we can change it

The Unizehcadex

Balla24

2322 Posts

March 03 2014 04:39 GMT

On March 03 2014 13:35 gonzaw wrote:

Show nested quote +

Sorry, can't help it. Your face is too killable.

Now I know why you rarely live as town in games.

WAT!

Coagulation

United States9633 Posts

March 03 2014 04:43 GMT

#10

jesus gonza

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 05:04 GMT

#11

On March 03 2014 13:39 Balla24 wrote:

Show nested quote +

WAT!

wat indeed.

On March 03 2014 13:37 Chezinu wrote:
Now, all we need is buttons for each player to push in order to vote so they don't have to type in video mafia. Then we can move on to virtual reality mafia later.

I developed integration with Oculus Rift as well, but since it hasn't been released yet I had to scrap it

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 03 2014 05:09 GMT

#12

it looks like you never enter alignment or role information until it's time to flip a player, is that correct? and there's no way to keep track of night actions so that only hosts can view them? so that means I'll still need to use another spreadsheet to keep track of all that stuff... basically all the things your spreadsheet doesn't account for (things that players in the game can't know about)

so assuming all the above, what's the purpose of the spreadsheet? i'm getting that it's an easy way for anyone (hosts obs and players) to view all relevant information such as votecounts, flips, and deadlines. but those things are required to be taken care of by hosts in the thread. in-thread vote counts will still be made, the OP will still have to be updated with flips, etc.

sooooo I'm not exactly sure why i'd use the spreadsheet, because everything I enter into the spreadsheet will have to be entered somewhere else, and the spreadsheet can't take the place of the existing spreadsheet I use where I keep track of roles and night actions.

anyways i've already set one up to run along with foundation mafia. I guess that after the game ends i'll try to figure out if any of the players or obsers felt like it was a thing worth having

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 03 2014 05:14 GMT

#13

i think what i'm trying to say is

i'd want to use the spreadsheet, but NOT have to do in thread votecounts or OP flip updates. i would prefer things be this way but i don't know if that's reasonable

i don't know if this is possible but it'd be really cool if I didn't have to use two spreadsheets, if somehow 1 spreadsheet could have a section viewable only by hosts where you can keep track of alignments and actions. is that possible?

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 05:19 GMT

#14

On March 03 2014 14:09 thrawn2112 wrote:
it looks like you never enter alignment or role information until it's time to flip a player, is that correct? and there's no way to keep track of night actions so that only hosts can view them? so that means I'll still need to use another spreadsheet to keep track of all that stuff... basically all the things your spreadsheet doesn't account for (things that players in the game can't know about)

so assuming all the above, what's the purpose of the spreadsheet? i'm getting that it's an easy way for anyone (hosts obs and players) to view all relevant information such as votecounts, flips, and deadlines. but those things are required to be taken care of by hosts in the thread. in-thread vote counts will still be made, the OP will still have to be updated with flips, etc.

sooooo I'm not exactly sure why i'd use the spreadsheet, because everything I enter into the spreadsheet will have to be entered somewhere else, and the spreadsheet can't take the place of the existing spreadsheet I use where I keep track of roles and night actions.

anyways i've already set one up to run along with foundation mafia. I guess that after the game ends i'll try to figure out if any of the players or obsers felt like it was a thing worth having

I wanted to start slow.

I think that as of now, this will be better for players than for hosts. My first "template" was made for a player in the game, to have all the info structured in a nice place, etc.
It was Foo who convinced me to use it "universally" for hosts and the like.

Surely players will greatly benefit of the "remaining time until deadline" and the voting count stuff, and it'd be worth the while just for those.

Yes, you'd have to keep track of players alignments and roles from the get go, as well as night actions, somewhere else.

I want this to be "universal", so those stuff are included in the spreadsheet as well some time in the future.

Right now, hosts AND players can see the same spreadsheet. I.e they can see the same information, the only thing differentiating a host and a player is that the hosts can edit it, while players can't.
Introducing the roles and alignments (and night actions) of players in a sheet at the start of the game, would mean EVERYBODY can see it.
There would have to be a way so that there exists a sheet ONLY hosts and cohosts can see, but not players or observers. I'm not exactly sure how to do that with the Google stuff. If someone knows we can discuss it.
In the future I'll try some stuff I think may work (perhaps).

But this shit took quite some time, and I'm going to have way less free time in the near future, so I can't promise anything.

Also...you have to press 2 buttons and add 2 lines of info each time, it's not such a heavy job to update this spreadsheet

Or just do like all hosts do and command your cohost to do all the dirty work for you! :D

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 05:22 GMT

#15

On March 03 2014 14:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
i think what i'm trying to say is

i'd want to use the spreadsheet, but NOT have to do in thread votecounts or OP flip updates. i would prefer things be this way but i don't know if that's reasonable

i don't know if this is possible but it'd be really cool if I didn't have to use two spreadsheets, if somehow 1 spreadsheet could have a section viewable only by hosts where you can keep track of alignments and actions. is that possible?

I don't see why you'd need to post voting counts in the thread anymore though. If Foo and CO are okay with it, you just need to update the spreadsheet with the votes, and everybody can just check it out there.

Same with OP flip counts.
That's entirely up to you, and others; dunno how it will work out.

But theoretically, yes, you could just use the spreadsheet for those, and assume every player will have access to it, so you wouldn't bother with votecounts, nor OP updates anymore.

Hell, maybe in the future the whole "Info in the OP" structure could be discarded, and leave everything in the spreadsheet (like the info about roles, and rules, etc).

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 05:26 GMT

#16

One problem I can see, is that the spreadsheet is not "annonymous". I.e, if I go check it, then my google account will show up there.
So, imagine I'm a lurking scum. I come home, and start checking the thread and the spreadsheet, and my scum QT to see how things are going. Right now, I could say "Hmm, I'll go lurk some more" and never post in the thread. But if my google account shows up in the spreadsheet, every townie in there will see me opening it. Thus, everybody knows I'm active, and I can't hide my lurking anymore.

This is similar to the "Who is online" feature OMGUS has. It doesn't break the games, since they keep playing mafia games there, but it is a significant change from the usual stuff TL does.

Either we live with it, or find a way to overcome it. I'm not too sure how to overcome it using Google stuff, but we could discuss it (maybe have people have dummy accounts to access it, or something I dunno).

EDIT:
Anyways...

On March 03 2014 14:09 thrawn2112 wrote:
anyways i've already set one up to run along with foundation mafia. I guess that after the game ends i'll try to figure out if any of the players or obsers felt like it was a thing worth having

Cool! Nice to know you didn't encounter problems doing so.

Anyways, yeah, I'm just the dude developing all this shit. You guys decide if it's worth it, or how to use it

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 03 2014 05:32 GMT

#17

i don't think the lurking thing is an issue. if that is a problem for someone they can open a window in private browsing a view it anonymously

But theoretically, yes, you could just use the spreadsheet for those, and assume every player will have access to it, so you wouldn't bother with votecounts, nor OP updates anymore.

Hell, maybe in the future the whole "Info in the OP" structure could be discarded, and leave everything in the spreadsheet (like the info about roles, and rules, etc).

this is what I'm wondering... if i have permission to use the SS in lieu of what you'd normally have to do. the problem with that is that maybe for some reason there's a person who cannot view the spreadsheet? maybe some type of problem with mobile browsing? idk

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

March 03 2014 05:43 GMT

#18

Hmm, I don't really think so.

There've been plenty of games that hinged on the "everybody can read a spreadsheet" idea. Liar Game was one of them.
I mean, well, maybe at some time the Google servers crash and people won't be able to see them at that point, but that's unlikely.

I think Google has mobile support for their spreadsheets. The only "downside" is that players would have to bookmark it in their mobile phones as well and open it in another tab...
...but don't they have to do the same with QTs (for example the scum QT)?

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 03 2014 05:50 GMT

#19

yeah i guess at this point i'm just being obstinate.

however it would be nice for foolishness or somebody to endorse the idea of allowing hosts to use the spreadsheet instead of having to do all that other stuff. you know.. something *official* like "thrawn you are no longer required to post vote counts or keep an up to date OP"

marvellosity

United Kingdom36160 Posts

March 03 2014 09:43 GMT

#20

No way I'm reading all that.

Re: votecounts, unless it saves votecounts at various points it's useless. One of the major points about votecounts is that they are snapshots of the game at a particular stage and useful to go back to.

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