EPTNormal Mini Mafia: Episode I
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 17 2014 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: /in Stop counterclaiming me! | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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guys I'm jester. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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I'm Mafia. What roles did you guys get? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 20 2014 09:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not claiming anything. I was expecting a counterclaim. I'm very disappointed  | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 20 2014 09:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why would you as town want to postpone mafia lynch? Balla it's a joke. On January 20 2014 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well in that case: ##Vote: thrawn2112 There is nothing scummy in what kush has done so far. What is different in these two scenarios? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 02:57 suki wrote: @Artanis Honestly your post confused me and the answer to your question seemed irrelevant, but if you could explain yourself a bit more it would probably help. Also more analysis. PS. I read that game where you were roleplaying as scooby and that was super cute :> It's fairly simple: I get reads through conversation more so than anything else. My initial comment was intended to be a conversation started with Rayn because he usually always counterclaims what I say in voice mafia, and we had similar types of fun during Really Small Mafia. The fact that he didn't address the joke at all yet made a joke on Thrawn in a way worries me. It gets me the feeling that he doesn't want me to get a read on him. PS: Thanks :3 | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 03:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: lol Artanis. You seem afraid. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i am not interested in talking with you if all you are going to do is troll the shit out of the game. This is not a game where i agreed on trolling at the start like the Really small mafia was. So please play the game. Other than my last post I haven't trolled at all this game though. There was intention behind my posts. Apparently you're also not interested in finding out my alignment or trying to start conversation with me so I guess I'll just make my intention clear. ##vote Raynpelikoneet | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 03:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you are calling me scum because i didn't counter-claim your mafia claim. Fucking terrible. I'm calling you scum because you're not engaging me in conversation when you have had a myriad of possibilities to do so which I can explain only from a scum point of view. You don't want me to get a correct read on you. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 03:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: I will engage you in conversation when you say something useful. Everything you have said is useless so far. So why don't you ask any questions to me? You seem completely uninterested in my alignment and are throwing down arbitrary barriers just to prevent a conversation from taking place, which points to you being scum. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 04:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: I already said i do not care to engage in conversations with you before you say something useful. You are calling me mafia because i am supposed to start conversations with us two. Why? Why is it my job to do so? Why do i need to start question you about anything when there is nothing going on in the game and you make an obvious joke thats nothing alignment indicative? It isn't, I put the ball in your court with the joke at the start and you refused to take it. I attempted to start the conversation that you were unwilling to partake in. The fact that you're making a massive problem out of it when asked displays your lack of a townie mindset. It shows your lack of interest in my alignment. The joke was intended to be a conversation starter and I don't believe that you're dumb enough that you didn't see that. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 04:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: By your logic you are uninterested in every players alignment in this game but mine. If i am scum for it it makes you like 11x scum. No one's directly attempted to start a conversation with me. I did with you and you knew that comment was meant for you. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 04:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: No Artanis, me not joking with you does not make me mafia and if you think so you are either making stupid conclusions or you are mafia. I have no desire to talk to anyone until they say something i have something to comment on. It's not just that, it's also the way how you did joke with Thrawn and how you've responded to the rest of my posts since then. What's the last Mafia game you rolled scum in? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 04:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not doing your work for you. Look at my profile, it's easy to find out. You can't be that lazy. There aren't any links to your previous game in your profile, but I can dig. Can you at least give me the name of the game? Surely that shouldn't be too hard. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 04:23 thrawn2112 wrote: artanis does thou have naught to say about the rest of the field? Kush's plan was dumb and he stepped off it pretty quickly after pressure. Liked Suki pointing out his inconsistency with giving town reads then questioning others on giving it out. Suspicious. VE has a good chance of being scum as well. His posts seem to mostly go with what's convenient rather than any real reasoning behind them. I think his vote on bum is really bad. Bum feels very townie to me. I don't think he'd go after both Rayn and VE in the same post if he were scum and antagonize them that badly. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 04:36 thrawn2112 wrote: which of them is scummier VE because something about Kush's afk message makes me doubt about him even though it's retarded. On January 21 2014 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: A couple of things: 1) It was me who pointed out kush's non-existent reasoning. I am apparently your top scumread. Why are you not reading my posts? 2) Why would mafia!bum not go against mafia!rayn? the only person i allow people to bus when i am mafia is myself, because i don't get lynched or i do itäs because i fuck up and not because my teammates make a case on me. He didn't even vote for me so why in your opinion soft-bus is impossible? I find it hilarious how both your points already counter one another. In the first you say you pointed out a mistake in Kush's reasoning so you can't both be scum, in the second you say a scum should lay into you. As for the former, you later said that you actually think there's no reason to consider him scum. Though you've rescinded that read in favour of calling him scum again, I see no reason why that in any way exonerates him. I don't think bum is town just for WHAT he did, but also HOW he did it. His frustration feels genuine. That coupled with going after both you and VE which are my main two suspects leads me to consider him town, yes. On January 21 2014 04:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Elaborate on your issue with me plz Artanis. Why is my vote on Bum bad? Bum isn't reading the thread, while accusing others of "skimming". He agreed with suki's analysis calling me scum for having "inconsistent views on Kush's plan" when in the posts in question I was actually referring to TWO different plans...and then calls me scum for "blindly agreeing with bad logic". This is pretty cut and dry Artanis. Bum is scum. You should be voting for him. Not making aimless jabs at me. Because scum are the only ones who are contradictory, of course. Bum is actively searching for scum and actually thought to have found them in two of the players with the strongest reputation in this game. You would need massive cojones to do that as scum, imo. I don't think you're scum for the points Bum raised. I think you're scum because you're taking the easy route whenever the opportunity arises rather than actively look for scum. You attacked Wile when Rayn did. You attacked Bum when he attacked you. It's all reactionary which is something I'm not used to from town you. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 04:56 VisceraEyes wrote: So? Neither of those "easy route" things make me scum or even scummy. Who cares if they're "easy"? Does that make the points I raise any less valid? And what if Bum is scum Artanis? Just because bum attacked me first, am I supposed to go after someone else just because bum is "too easy" now? Or Wile, just because rayn attacked him first, am I supposed to find a different target just because Wile is "too easy" now? Even if he's scum? These points don't make any sense. It does because you're not finding anything new. You're not adding anything to town by regurgitating Rayn's opinion. My problem is that you have a 2 page filter with nothing in it. Those are the only two concrete suspicions you've had and one is a sheep and the other an OMGUS on the towniest player around right now. Other than that you've talked about policy, plans, excuses and other things that aren't related to scumhunting. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 05:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Dude bum's case on me was trash - he pointed at two things and drew THREE null conclusions and voted for me. Tell me what's townie about that right this instant Artanis or YOU get my vote. A trash case doesn't make someone scum VE. You should know that very well. His reads align with mine even if his reasoning isn't the same, his frustration felt genuine, he's boldly attacked two vets and seems to actually be trying to figure the game out. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 05:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Where is he trying to figure the game out?! HOW are you coming to that conclusion? He makes a terribad case on me, and that means he's trying to figure the game out? What game are you fucking reading Artanis? He's making cases and backing them up, then replying to people that comment on it. I think that's a pretty good way of trying to figure the game out. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 05:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah but your reads are trash or you're scum Artanis. Making bad cases is indicative of scum, not town. If you had made the case bum did i would vote for you and never ever switch my vote, it was that bad. Do you remember Spaghetti's case on VE in LXIII? It was terrible, but it made him so town. Bad cases aren't indicative of scum per definition. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 21 2014 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Artanis look at it this way: bumatlarge should know better. I'm getting a lot of flak because of others' expectations of me, and that's fine I guess, but why are people not holding bumatlarge up to the same standard of play? Or higher? Bumatlarge is one of seven(?) players to have played a game on this site for the last SEVEN YEARS. And the cases on me and rayn are what all this experience has yielded? I know that he's completely wrong about at least half of his reads, and the reasoning he gave for having that particular read is fucking TERRIBLE. Do the math guys. A BAD CASE DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE SCUM. Also, the time in which someone has played the game is not necessarily unrelated to their skill level. On January 21 2014 05:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: lol VE is town  Explain how this couldn't have possibly come from a scum VE. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Time to 180 on my read on Rayn. On January 22 2014 02:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes, exactly this. Me, you and maybe VE are the only one's who actually comment on more than just one or two things (i don't countt kush bvecause he doesn't really explain anything - but he is still probably town - LOOK THRAWN, I HAVE A CONCLUSION!). Artanis - Balla both weird. Another interesting thing, Balla calls out Crossfire for making a case on me,why not call out Artanis out for voting for me with basically no reasoning? As i said i see Artanis' posts as townie, i can get the logic. I don't like how he has done pretty much nothing at all. I still want to lynch zarepath. seriously everything he says contradicts what he did a post before. When I first pointed out the reason for my suspicion he considered it completely idiotic. The way I've posted about him, no one would blame him for being suspicious of me or even calling for my head. Town sentiment has been against me as well, yet he gets where I'm coming from. Zare looks scummy as shit. Rayn's already said it all but calling VE town then calling him scum for it later is an obvious tell. ##vote Zarepath I'm also still interested in Kush. VE's looking better. The way he articulates his thoughts on Bum makes me feel better on him. Rather than mercilessly ragging on him it feels like he's trying to convey his thought process as clearly as possible. Kush, especially if Zare flips scum is of interest to me. He's never really given much explanation to his votes. Even though that's not customary of Kush in general, he's shown resistance to explaining even when pressed which I don't feel is his townie persona. His suspicions just follow general thread sentiment other than Zarepath, in which he's contrarian without explaining much about it at all. Could lynch. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Also, how strong is your Crossfire read? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 04:44 Balla24 wrote: Also I'm still having trouble understanding why you chose to try to get rayn to counterclaim your scum claim. What happens if he plays along? Rayn told me it was a joke and wrote it off so I didn't pay it any mind but it turns out you had some real motivation for it so I do want an explanation afterall. It's not about if he plays along. I was near certain he would. It's about how he would approach it that would allow me insight into the mindset with which he starts the game. It was also meant as kickstart for the game so we could go straight into scumhunting rather than talk about setup and policy and all that jazz. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 04:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Crossfire has 3 posts of substance. One is policy talk. Easy scum starter. One he dives kush which does nothing. Kush plays however the fuck he wants and he comes back with a null read. That's odd in itself after all the work he claims to have done. His third is a case on rayn which isnt even much of a case in my opinion. He's not helping the town at all and not really playing the game. Is there anything you find scummy about Crossfire that you find difficult to imagine from a town point of view? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 04:53 suki wrote: <snip> I hate this logic. Also if town Bum really thought that VE wasn't worth pursuing he should have a better target no? Rather than just saying 'welp no ones listening to me I guess I'll just withdraw from the game' Do you think this makes Bum more likely to be scum though? If you're a townie and you're certain of one player being scum it can be very demotivating when no one refuses to listen. In light of Bum's general attitude it feels more like he's genuinely frustrated to me. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 05:03 suki wrote: Right now bum looks really bad for pushing such a shitty case on VE, then asking VE questions and when those questions are not answered satisfyingly.... drops the case because nobody's listening to him. The town explanation is he's just frustrated townie not willing to waste any more time.. but if he is, who is more suspicious to him? Why drop your case on your top scum read who hasn't answered any of your questions, when you don't have anyone else who reads scummy to you? Hmm. I'm going to have to reread Bum's filter with this in mind. The story of frustrated town might make too much sense to me because it's happened to me before. Perhaps I'll see what you see. Will be back in an hour to do so. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 05:03 Balla24 wrote: Sure that's reasonable. But why did you chose to call rayn scum based off of only that and barely mention other things that make him scum. Like you said: But you didn't say how he was destroying the town atmosphere... Because I build cases based on what I find scummy without adding fluff. Check LXIII to see how I pointed that out with Mocsta. He was destroying town atmosphere because he was being unnecessarily abrasive. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 06:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: A asked DarthPunk if mafia has fakeclaims before the game started. You can do it aswell if you don't believe in fakeclaims and not just fucking sit on your asses discussing it here. Now, who is mafia? Who do we lynch? thrwan, VE, Artanis, are you here? I am. I agree that Zare is probably not scum with all what happened. I want to lynch Kush. He's saying a lot of things without explaining anything. Follows thread sentiment except oddly on Zarepath, as if he knew he was town. ##unvote ##vote Kushm4sta | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 06:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis what do you think Crossfire is doing? I don't have a strong read on Crossfire. Going in against you seems unlikely for a scum Crossfire to do unless you were both scum and I currently don't believe you to be. His backing off on you without mentioning it again is weird though. I find it hard to get a good read on him because he doesn't really explain how his reads evolve. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 06:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Wouldn't it be funny if all the people who wanted to see a bluepost are scum. Seems like a bad heuristic to go by. Suki, what do you think of Kush? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:02 Crossfire99 wrote: I read this quote as him doing this. I assumed scum got fake claims and therefore know the structure of at least named vts and regular vts, so this made him town in my eyes, but then he didn't act like I expected him too so I got confused. So what is your current read on Kush? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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But I thought your read changed because of I read this quote as him doing this. I assumed scum got fake claims and therefore know the structure of at least named vts and regular vts, so this made him town in my eyes, but then he didn't act like I expected him too so I got confused. Presuming the he in this quote is Kush. Did I read your post wrong or why did you make that post if your read hasn't changed? On January 22 2014 07:09 BarristanTheBold wrote: So why haven't you been here making conversation to build your reads from? But that's what I've been doing the last few pages or so. On January 22 2014 07:13 kushm4sta wrote: want me to say anything? Why shouldn't we lynch you? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:22 kushm4sta wrote: it usually doesn't. and yeah i went to sleep before i got a chance to do anything. hoenstly i ptretty much just saw that scumslip then i was liek ok found the lynch gg no more trying, kind of like how alaka stopped trying just because he is confirmed town, which you yourself pointed out i think. actually i have been doing a lot. im been going through filters and making reads. my filter is uqite long. how about you read it.? I have gone through it. Though it's quite long it doesn't really say much. You rarely explain your reads and they usually match the town sentiment with the exception of Zarepath whom is probably town, suggesting you have more information than the rest of us which made you feel comfortable going in against him as it'd make you look good after a flip. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:24 JonnyLaw wrote: Doesn't this seem too easy to you guys? It seems like a last minute lynch orchestrated by myself and Rayn. I know I'm town and I'm pretty sure Rayn is town. I can see scum having no power to change the lynch. Pretty much what happened during Titanic II when there was a last minute switch to purpleflator who was scum. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:24 Crossfire99 wrote: artanis, the first quote you had of mine was me explaining my read now in full which includes the accidental non vt claim which was my first thought about him and his "wildness." The second quote was what I though about him during the post where I came to no conclusion on him. The accidental non vt is in both, so I'm confused about what you're confused about lol. I'm still confused but I'll let it be as the only read that matters is the one you have now. Thrawn why did you unvote? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:37 kushm4sta wrote: so what happened is i thought i was a named VT and only named vts got names. Why don't you give a shit that you're about to get lynched? If you're town I'm really going to be pissed. On January 22 2014 07:37 BarristanTheBold wrote: Artanis: I've said multiple times that I'm at work. While I'm not busy I get to check the thread once every 10 minutes, but that's about it. You haven't voted anyone and it's 20 minutes to the lynch. It'd be nice to get something for you to be accountable for. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote sadly it makes the most sense. i still don't know who to lynch. We don't know what kind of PM's scum get. I can easily imagine they get a similar kind of PM. It's not even relevant for why Kush is scum. He followed thread sentiment other than Zare which he magically had a mysterious townread on when the rest of town thought he was scum. It doesn't add up. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: i gave reaons for townreading zare. i quoted stuff that i thoguht proved rayns case wrong. i tried to figure out what contradiction everyone was talking aobut which i dont really konw what happened about but i recall balla saying nvm Who do you actually think is scum right now? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:48 thrawn2112 wrote: artanis. unvote kush and vote balla Why? I haven't gone through his filter yet but Kush is scummy as fuck. You still didn't explain why you unvoted him. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 22 2014 07:50 thrawn2112 wrote: you still havent explained why you havent unvoted him Except I've been perfectly clear. On January 22 2014 07:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: We don't know what kind of PM's scum get. I can easily imagine they get a similar kind of PM. It's not even relevant for why Kush is scum. He followed thread sentiment other than Zare which he magically had a mysterious townread on when the rest of town thought he was scum. It doesn't add up. Why is Kush not scum to you? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 04:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can explain the town read on kush. It's the way he said i claimed named VT at the start of the game and how he explained it later on. I really believe what he says about it. Here: This makes me think he is town, because it makes sense based on what he said and how he acted at the start of the game. This is a fair point, but it presumes that scum isn't aware of what kind of PM's town get. I presume they get fakeclaims as well so they could see the similarities between the PM's. Nevertheless you're right in that this is something that is hard to imagine scum Kush faking. Mm. JL case looks convincing. Don't have much to add to it. Bum town read is still strong. The whole Balla coach thing just seems like something that scum wouldn't come up with. It could make sense as an explanation but which scum would use that as a plan? It seems suicidal. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 04:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Artanis is a good place to start. Do go on. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 04:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I honestly think bum is town... Welcome to the cool kids club. You said you had a townread on Alaka that you couldn't explain and that he deserved to get lynched. Personally I'd rather just win. Why did you have a townread on him? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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##Vote JohnnyLaw | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 08:26 kushm4sta wrote: ##vote artanis Can you motivate that for me? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 08:32 BarristanTheBold wrote: @VE: I have mentioned bum. In fact, I said that i had him slightly town'ish. I changed my mind, especially if Artanis is scum. @Artanis: Are those not sufficient reasons? You're play seems much more like the lazy scum Artanis than the town Artanis. And you kept trying to swing the vote off of balla and onto kush despite theoretically being "okay with lynching balla". Not really. Rayn himself said they aren't exactly contradictory. Also, if we're talking meta, I bussed the shit out of my teammates the last two games. Why are you cherry picking what you think makes me scum? Inactivity is not alignment indicative. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 08:36 BarristanTheBold wrote: Yea, you bussed VE after he was caught with his pants down in Boardwalk. But for the most part in that game, you were completely a non-factor and got lynched because of it. Boardwalk is a while ago. Try checking out my more recent scumgames and report back. Inactivity is not a scumtell. It's an IRLtell. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Whenever I've been here I've been making conversation. I've prodded Rayn a bunch. I've prodded VE a bunch. Almost all my posts include quotes and engage others. How can you say that I haven't been making conversation? That's a misrepresentation of my filter. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 08:50 BarristanTheBold wrote: You've not said a single word to me all game until 10 minutes before the lynch yesterday, and now that I started attacking you. Just not interested in reading me, then? Because I've used my limited time on other people which were of more interest to me at the time. Currently, you're one of my most interested candidates after elimination. I've got a few questions for you. If Zarepath didn't have his Named VT claim, would you consider him the best lynch for today? What do you think of Suki? You questioned her about yourself but you didn't reply to her explanation. Did you find her explanation acceptable? What's your read on her? Why did you change your mind on Bum and why do you think a scumteam with me and him is likely? Do you think it's likely scum would buddy this hard? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 09:14 BarristanTheBold wrote: No, because I would have lynched him yesterday. He wasn't lynchable yesterday after his claim. I'm saying if the claim never happened. [ QUOTE]On January 23 2014 08:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: What do you think of Suki? You questioned her about yourself but you didn't reply to her explanation. Did you find her explanation acceptable? What's your read on her? Her explanation doesn't make much sense, but I don't think she's scum. Too interested/active/particpating. There was no point in continuing the conversation.[/quote] If her explanation was unsatisfactory but you still don't want to chase it why did you ask the question to begin with? What originally set off my scumdar was when you came into the thread during the VE vs bum fight and just started attacking rayn. The timing felt...convenient? And you started attacking VE, which felt like you were just trying to discredit him since you dropped it at the same time you dropped the rayn thing when people weren't talking about bum anymore. But I will admit, there's a bit more buddying than I remembered when I ctrl+f bum through your filter. WIFOM is WIFOM though, and you just said you "bussed the shit out of your teammates in your last 2 scum games". So you're aware of it and could do the exact opposite. That's WIFOM too. You're saying some meta points are the same so I'm scum, but some meta points aren't the same but those happen to be WIFOM. See above. Mostly in association with you, although the balla interaction thing was part of it. Do you really think I can be scum with Bum? On January 23 2014 09:19 kushm4sta wrote: that's precisely why you would hard defend your scumteam this game I've already tried that before too and we had to concede after D1. You're WIFOMing the shit out of this and not providing any solid reason for why I'm scum. The only thing that makes you town is the way you reacted to the claim which I consider could be overvalued anyway. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On January 23 2014 09:53 suki wrote: Hey Barristan, since you're pushing Artanis/bum so much, I assume you're thinking there's a chance Jonny might be town. What do you think of Jonny's progression from thinking Zarepath looked genuine for getting angry after VE's blowup, to voting Zarepath as his number one choice for lynch day 1? Hey Suki, if you're still here, what do you think of Barristan's answer regarding the question he sent your way? On January 23 2014 10:13 bumatlarge wrote: You people are really overestimating my scum game. I think the connection between myself and artanis is null. I don't think Artanis would defend me if we were both scum, he knows I'm volatile. Also, while we both suspected rayn for a time and we both changed that opinion, that is not something that scum do. Based on that alone, one of us being scum would make sense, because tracing a townie's line of thought is fairly scummy, but I don't believe Artanis and I were ever pushing people for the same reasons, including kush, but that's what I want to clarify. Artanis, could you clarify your reasons for pushing kush? Do you know his meta? I thought his connection to balla was incriminating, and I am also not convinced by the way he claimed VT. But everything else from him has been borderline. I suggest you build a case, because I don't have a town read on you. I have played a few games with kush but I've usually been too annoyed at him to read him well. I've never had the feeling that he thinks much ahead in games which is why the thing Rayn brought up makes me doubt about him. I'm using Rayn's meta reads on him mostly. Rayn mentioned how Kush mostly likes giving Town reads as scum because they're easy. This game, he started out with town reads and gave a few scumreads later on but didn't really expand on any of them. What rubbed me the wrong way most was how he reacted regarding Zarepath though. His confidence on Zare's towniness when the whole town was against him felt like he knew too much. His Balla defense is also incriminating. The only thing that makes me think we're dealing with a town Kush here was the thing regarding the VT claim, but that may be enough. Bleh. What did you mean by this? It's the only time you mention me without calling me town... You two were the leading wagons like 30 minutes from the lynch. I wanted him to pick a side to hold him accountable to after the flip. It wasn't that my read on you has changed. What do you think about Barristan? | ||
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On January 22 2014 17:37 BarristanTheBold wrote: suki: what the hell happened to me? You were fucking voting me less than an hour before deadline, and i weakly hopped on the balla wagon with "Shit customers." and threw my vote down. Now you don't even mention me? What gives? On January 22 2014 23:22 suki wrote: Barristan, I don't find you scummy. I was in panic mode and honestly playing like shit at the time. On January 23 2014 09:14 BarristanTheBold wrote: Her explanation doesn't make much sense, but I don't think she's scum. Too interested/active/particpating. There was no point in continuing the conversation. | ||
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On January 23 2014 10:38 suki wrote: If he thinks I'm town and he believes me, then there isn't any reason to continue to pressure me. I agree with his logic there and the time and effort is better spent going after his scum reads. But why did he ask the question if he doesn't find you suspicious? If he does, then a suspicious answer should result in him pressuring you further. If he doesn't, then even bringing up the question doesn't make sense. | ||
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On January 23 2014 04:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can explain the town read on kush. It's the way he said i claimed named VT at the start of the game and how he explained it later on. I really believe what he says about it. Here: This makes me think he is town, because it makes sense based on what he said and how he acted at the start of the game. It is something I have a hard time coupling with a scum Kush. | ||
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On January 23 2014 13:49 suki wrote: Artanis, do you have any ideas who the third scum is? I notice you asking a lot of questions but haven't posted any of your ideas recently. I think it might be Barristan. I'm not sure though. The only point that really goes against him was the one I pointed out earlier, other than that nothing really stands out from his filter. If it's not Barristan, then I imagine it's one of the people that's town for the wrong reasons. It could be someone town just for a claim (Zarepath, Wile E, Thrawn). I haven't looked into them too much. Still plenty of time and I'm pretty sure on my other townreads. On January 23 2014 14:07 suki wrote: Actually Artanis, back before the drama of Day 1 we had a conversation about bum: You never actually came back and posted your thoughts on Bum. Can you also post your thoughts on Bum in addition to your scumread(s)? I think my thoughts on Bum are very clear. I think he's town because of the people he went after, his persistance and his willingness to think along as well as staying paranoid on the only person that's called him town all game. @JL if you're not scum please post as many reads as possible. It might save you, and even if it doesn't it'll provide us with the insight of a confirmed town after you flip. Regardless, it's worth it. Hopefully Suki's post can inspire you a bit. | ||
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On January 24 2014 06:43 Wile E. Coyote wrote: He was pushing someone They were scum When they were actually gonna get lynched he went after zerepath Poorly executed towncred buddy pressure- buyers remorse response. Buyer's remorse is stupid, I know by experience. Can you explain what you mean by the last two lines? I appear to be too dumb to understand it. | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:10 Wile E. Coyote wrote: He was buying towncred by attacking his buddy Started rolling, got buyers remorse, tried to save So you're saying JL is scum, correct? Why then did you push Kush to determine whether JL is scum or not? It's not like the lynch hinges on kush right now. He seems pretty destined for the noose at the moment. | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:45 kushm4sta wrote: artanis you scummy mother... Why are you being scummy to wiley for trying to tell me to read the filter of his top scumread? I'm asking him for his reasoning. Everyone's already piled up on Jonny. Why does he require reasoning specifically from you to further that? I don't understand his thought process when JL is 99% guaranteed to be lynched today why he wants you to regurgitate a case that's already been made by 3+ people. It smells like a fake contribution to me. | ||
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We're not going to lynch me because I'm town and I don't get mislynched. We're still going to lynch JohnnyLaw because he's been scummy as shit and for some reason everyone's forgotten everything that happened before D2. On January 24 2014 11:20 bumatlarge wrote: Artanis has a really bad track record with the voting. He steered the train off Zarepath and on to kush, which was quite noble, but it would be the right play if they were both mafia. He clearly did not want to lynch balla. And his vote on zarepath was weak as well. He has a bit of foresight present here, but Zarepath was at 5 here, which makes his vote a null tell. Zarepath, after managing to swing the vote away from him with his claim, did not put his vote anywhere useful. His vote on cross is similar to artanis' vote on kush, except a lot less telling. I also think it is highly likely that he is lying. A Blue VT claim is fairly safe for at least one mafia to make, especially one about to die, and mafia might have to challenge a DT later. I think the possibility of Artanis and Zarepath as the last two scum is good. But I'm the third man in that boat, so sink it anyway. I did not want to lynch Balla over Kush because I felt I had a strong scumread on Kush and hadn't filtered Balla at the time, nor was there time to do it with the deadline approaching. Being wrong does not mean you're scum. I'm wrong more often as Town than scum because I don't actually have perfect information. On January 24 2014 11:41 kushm4sta wrote: seems like it would be pretty hard for scum to come up with that. and he was the first to write a case on zarepath pretty much. You really think that's hard for scum to come up with? Please stop being bad Kush. Calling someone out for sheeping a scumread is really not difficult. Slap on a meta read and there you go. I do think Barristan is likely town but that's a shit reason. On January 24 2014 12:18 kushm4sta wrote: what is the point of busing if there is no towncred in it? you think it's scummier for him to bus, so why would he bus? he said himself that he bused the last two scum games. So therefore this game as scum he thinks everyone is going to expect him to bus therefore he's not busing. Scum artanis attacks weak targets, aka me. He wrote off his terribad attack on rayne as "pressure to get a read". But he never identified that his pressure had yielded a townread until much later when he came back and rayn was obv town. His main attack d1 was on me. I was definitely a weak target at the time, the case against me being "I didn't do anything" (what else is new). Kush you're good at infuriating me this game. You're literally using meta wherever it suits you, and when it doesn't you say "well obviously he's doing the opposite now because he did that in the previous game." you're cherry picking your meta wherever it fits with a scumread of me probably because you're angry that I called you scum on D1 and it's retarded. The case against you also wasn't that you're a weak target, it was sheeping town sentiment with the odd exception of having future sight that Zarepath is town, which for some reason you just rescinded now. I'm wondering if you're actually scum now. Why were you the one that went in against the grain that Zarepath is town when everyone said he was scum, yet now you ask why people think he's town? What the hell? On January 24 2014 13:15 suki wrote: Anyways, wahaha, welcome back Jonny I didn’t really read your attack on me because I’m town so whatever. While I was filter diving last night looking for the ‘final scum’, I decided that you weren’t scum after all, but I wanted to wait for your response just to see if you’d actually start playing again and helping town. Reasons I don’t think you’re scum: Balla’s only targets were Zarepath and Crossfire. It’s pretty stupid scum play for two scum to target the exact same people. Especially in the case of Zarepath who was already under heavy pressure from lots of people, scum can and should take the safe route, which you didn’t do. That something is stupid scum play isn't an argument for them not being scum. If the team consists of Balla, JL and another inactive player like Wile or Thrawn or Zarepath then I can easily imagine that being the case. Your fist pump ‘I caught a scum’ after the lynch followed by immediate rage at me is actually really understandable from a town point of view because who wouldn’t be mad at being called scummy for playing a great town game? And then to be #1 to lynch, yeah. Anyways, I also read your post: As pretty townie cuz it’s kinda exactly what I said in that newbie mini that I referenced in my earlier speech. If the bus is pre-planned because someone is playing poorly and you want to gain cred from it, then find out you haven't I can also imagine you getting pretty pissed. Hm. Also, having both balla and Jonny vote crossfire/zare from the beginning really doesn’t lend itself to a long term scum strategy at all, there’s no set up for the following days, which is too short sighted for people of Balla and Jonny’s calibur. The scum slip that rayn pretty much convinced everyone with.. well, it’s pretty damning but hey, I was reading balla as town the whole time so it should be reasonable to expect Jonny having second thoughts of Balla’s towniness on the condition that his activity were to start picking up. In short, Jonny is really town to me. Plus, I think I’ve solved the game. Lol. Gimme a bit to write things up. ##unvote I don't understand. First you say that someone of Jonny's calibur should've picked up on it, yet you consider Jonny and Balla pretty equal. When going through Balla's filter, I don't find his play particularly inspiring this game. If you consider them the same level then I can most certainly imagine a scum Jonny having played like that. On January 24 2014 14:02 suki wrote: Alright, first off, Bum and Artanis are the scum team. We're both town though, so that's wrong. Now, Artanis: Artanis' play has been really quiet. He's asked a lot of questions but rarely expresses his own views. A safe way to play while looking like he's contributing. He followed the safe lynch on Zarepath, did not vote Balla, and also insta-voted JL on Day 2 with me and VE. Although he is now distancing himself from JL scum theory which fits with him being scum. I'm not worried about getting mislynched because I've never been mislynched as town before and don't intend on it this game. I tend to ask questions as town and I gave reads when they were necessary. I have not distanced myself from JL being scum at all. The only thing I told him was to stay motivated and contribute if he was town. And now, when I asked him who he thought was scummy he said this: Boxer's are a townie's safe haven. They are a way to eliminate people from consideration and make it easier to hunt scum. All three of our claims were made in a very convincing, townie manner. There is no reason, and Artanis has not stated any reason, why he would suspect the boxers, instead of other people. As scum though it makes perfect sense to try to start warming people up to lynching blues, because in the later parts of the game they have to make something happen. Boxers are in fact not a safe haven because they can be fakeclaimed. Also, I'll give you a little history lesson why I'm critical of people being town for a single reason. You probably haven't read LXI, but it featured a hydra head (Marv) getting sniped by BH over a shared QT after which Marv made a post about how it was bullshit what happened. Geript, the other head, was considered confirmed town after that exchange. He was scum. If the remaining players who aren't town for a single reason are townier than those that are town for just one reason, than they should be re-examined. That's what I'm calling for here. The rest of the case is bullshit because bum is confirmed PC unless anyone counterclaims and he's either dying tonight, gets us a different check or he gets lynched on D4 or so for bullshitting. On January 25 2014 01:10 JonnyLaw wrote: All right here's what really bothers me looking at artanis. Artanis is very happy to take credit for the kush lynch here. Yet the next five posts are him berating kush for not taking part in the lynch. He's basically setting up town cred until rayn realizes that Kush is being framed. What in the flying fuck am I reading here? Artanis uses like 5 posts trying to convince people that kush is scum and we should lynch him. You're being very presumptious here. I also don't see Kush as confirmed town at all. The only thing that makes me think he's town is the exchange Rayn quoted before, and I'm not sure it holds up. It'd be nice if you could tell me if he's your scumbuddy. And then.... This is when the fucking lynch is guaranteed. This is Artanis' first post addressing balla at all while people are deciding who to lynch. For someone who was so proud of lynch kush, then tried to back track for when he flipped town Artanis clearly didn't like the balla lynch. Or, you know, the other option was that I skimmed through Balla's filter and saw it wasn't very good, but I still felt more confident in Kush. There is that other option. On January 25 2014 01:38 kushm4sta wrote: @jl wow nice work. yeah that makes artanis look so scummy. ima about to blow your mind though. ready? thrawn. u ignore thrawn but thrawn is scummy as a mother fuck. always making excuses rather than doing anything (lol i got high and played xbox). I know from being on thrawns scumteam that he is bored as fuck by scum and he has no motivation to do stuff. Lately thrawn has been soft defending artanis under very shaky pretenses. So he's town because he refused to vote for scum??? seriously?????????? most wifomy shitty townread ever. Scum don't like to go on the same wagon. Instead they like to distance themselves. This is almost always true for some reason. That was the real motivation behind the lack of bus. Thrawn's reason for calling me town is as weak as your reason for calling me scum was. The point is fucking retarded either way because it's not alignment indicative in the least. On January 25 2014 01:45 Crossfire99 wrote: Ok. I'm back. I'm willing to lay off Jonny for now because he's actually tried and done stuff. I can also see his defense as townie. If our lynches don't turn out, we have to look at him again, but for now I'm definitely down for an Artanis lynch. This bum claim clears some things up, and Artanis's activity around lynch is super suspicious plus this quote from him (I feel someone already said this but I can't find it so I apologize to that person) Basically, he's attacking what he knows is a fake claim because mafia only have a rb which means 3 named vts is impossible. This is the same thing that bum knows to be false, but he knows it is because he's a parity cop. (I still can't believe you claimed now...you could have at least tried a little bit to move the lynch to artanis before claiming, but whatever lol). ##Unvote JonnyLaw ##Vote Artanis[Xp] I've explained this earlier in this post. Weren't you in LXI? Surely you can see where I'm coming from. | ||
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On January 25 2014 02:54 thrawn2112 wrote: artanis chill out man I don't believe I called anyone dumb for it, just called points dumb. We're playing mafia, and if people say dumb things I'll call the things they say dumb. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:00 thrawn2112 wrote: so why are you here right now? what is your objective? to call us bad and tell us to go fuck ourselves while pretending to push the JL lynch? I told you why I'm not scum. I'm still working on a concise post on why JL is scum. | ||
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He pressures Balla a bit, then when Balla answers him he doesn't do anything with it, just continues to call him scum. He knows the alignment of Balla already so he doesn't actually care about the answers. He just wants interaction for distancing. 2. His read on Kush makes no sense. On January 21 2014 02:02 JonnyLaw wrote: rayn this is exactly how kush plays though. What's telling you he's scum? He says this is exactly how Kush plays. So clearly he knows a lot about Kush's meta. On January 21 2014 03:29 JonnyLaw wrote: Also, I think balla's scum and I don't know how to read kush at all. Maybe scum too. Welp, that's weird. He suddenly forgot 90 minutes later. 3. Voting pattern compared to reads VE already brought this up. On January 23 2014 02:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Jonny might very well be scum. When I initially noticed Balla and voted for him Jonny had just unvoted and voted for Kush, citing "we can't get Jonny lynched anyway, so lynch Kush I think they both scum" So why is it that once people start LOOKING AT balla, suddenly Jonny is more interested in lynching Kush? It certainly seems like he still "thinks Balla is scum", so why not vote? Maybe his next vote will be on Balla.... Nope...it's on Zarepath. So him saying he's thought Balla was scum like all D1 is pretty meaningless, because when Balla was being discussed, there was never any "Hey yeah! I like that guy for scum too!" or a vote or anything. In fact, when the votes started dropping, Jonny was on the other guy. He's thought Balla was scum all game long, but doesn't really interact with him much, nor does he vote for him until he's already dead and buried. [b]4. Accuses people without purpose. On January 22 2014 04:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Crossfire has 3 posts of substance. One is policy talk. Easy scum starter. One he dives kush which does nothing. Kush plays however the fuck he wants and he comes back with a null read. That's odd in itself after all the work he claims to have done. His third is a case on rayn which isnt even much of a case in my opinion. He's not helping the town at all and not really playing the game. On January 22 2014 05:15 JonnyLaw wrote: On January 22 2014 04:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Is there anything you find scummy about Crossfire that you find difficult to imagine from a town point of view? No, I can imagine them. He's just lurking though so it's hard to say. So there's this thing he found interesting except he could see it done as both alignments. Okay. [b]5. Keeps trying to get cred for the Balla lynch After the lynch, Jonny seems more interested in getting credit for the lynch despite not having voted for him until the last moment than anything else. 6. Can't keep his own story straight Rayn already said it. On January 22 2014 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is really bad. Really bad. He's had one clear scumread all the game. When something unexpected happens he has no idea what to do and then calls Balla's posting town?!?! But it was scummy before? And after. lol. On January 23 2014 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: no no no. This does not make any sense. That should be pretty much slam dunk already. Now for the recent posts which seem to have given people a townread on him somehow. 7. Case on Suki Cases can be bad and that doesn't make the person that makes them scummy. However, the choice of target on its own doesn't make sense. When you're a townie and you feel down and out and there's one person trying to motivate you to try again, who do you filter first to try and find scum? Generally it isn't the person trying to motivate you. So why would a scum JL do it? Because she was the best target that no one had really made a case on yet. Making a case on Bum wouldn't get you any credit because VE's already done it. Suki was the one with the filter easiest to portrait as scum that no one did yet. A perfect target for a scum case. The effort involved wasn't too much either, simply quoting posts and adding a line here and there and suddenly towncred galore. 8. Instant flip with town consensus Okay, now that the town cred has been accrued, let's see who we can actually lynch. Artanis is getting a lot of votes, let's plop my vote down there. What's strange is that the thing that's showing I'm town the most, the effort I put into getting my target lynched, is somehow scummy to him. From all the things in my filter that's what he points out. It shows a lack of a town mindset. Lynch JonnyLaw. He's scum. Lynch me if I'm wrong. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:03 thrawn2112 wrote: btw please include your kush/thrawn reads those seem to be your secondary suspicions and that's odd As I've explained Kush's arguments have been faulty, his read on Zarepath is exceptionally flip floppy and the only thing that's made him town was the claim interaction with Rayn. My scumread on you isn't very well developed, still need to filter you further but the way you called me town for keeping my vote on Kush feels as flimsy as Kush's scumread on me for it. On January 25 2014 03:10 JonnyLaw wrote: Artanis I'm not sure if you're being lazy or just scummier here. You really think that a scum team consists of jonnylaw/kush/balla24? Honestly you and rayn both must think I'm a scum god. I promoted lynching kush and balla all day1. Okay let's say you're right. In what world would I be sitting in a scum qt saying, "hey balla and kush lets chat and bus each other all day when there's not pressure on us yet! Balla, make sure to say you think I'm scum as well and let's see who can get lynched faster." Kush is always going to be a lynch target and Balla basically gave up on the game because I wouldn't stop calling him scum. Your accusations are so weak. They were weak when rayn made them and they're still weak. I want you to flip before I worry about accusations. I'm very sure you'll flip red but I haven't thought about other connections yet. I can definitely see a scumteam with you and Balla, and Kush is known as the busmaster so I don't find that too difficult to imagine either. I've been in a scumteam where everyone busses eachother all day plenty of times. On January 25 2014 03:15 kushm4sta wrote: yo artanis how about you make arguments rather than just respond to people all pissed off like? regarding why one meta aspect of your game you would stay the same and one you would do the opposite: to bus or not to bus is a conscious decision you make as scum. Attacking weak targets is something you do because you find it easier to make fake cases against them. One you have control over, one you do not. I'll stop being pissed off when people stop making dumb arguments. Bussing Xatalos was not a conscious decision. It started as a distancing attempt and it went too far because once I bus I can't stop. Perfect information screws with me and I doubt it's something I could just turn off. Also, how is Rayn an easy target? I spent half of Day 1 attacking him until I got a good read on him. Your meta case makes no sense. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Lynch you if you're wrong and forfeit the game to scum? Because you're wrong? Really? Please do remember that you're appealing to people that share an alignment with you presumably. I'm confident in my read. On January 25 2014 03:28 kushm4sta wrote: your case is shitting on him for contradicting himself according to your biased interpretation of what he's saying How is it my biased interpretation? Both Rayn and VE agreed with me. I have no idea why VE doesn't think so anymore. I also don't believe it to be biased. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:34 kushm4sta wrote: OK biased or not (lol), your case is still shitty on him for contradicting himself. that is not a good case. Also i coudl argue a lot of those contradictions are actually not contradictions and you just misunderstood what jlaw was trying to say. that's what I meant by biased. It's not shitty, he's scum because he's been chasing scum objectives; distancing himself from balla whilst not actually trying to convince people to lynch him, then as soon as it happens tries to claim towncred for it. The contradictions just seal the deal on an already obvious scum. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:37 kushm4sta wrote: do you see how you coudl be seen as doing the same exact thing, minus the trying to claim towncred for it part. (that is the most superficial part btw so scum isn't even likely to do that) How have I been trying to distance myself from Balla? I hadn't interacted with him barely at all. I had only skimmed his filter by the time he was up for lynch. Have you read the game? | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:39 kushm4sta wrote: everyone was switching from town(me) to balla(scum) and you were like wtf guyz why... and before you said balla/kush look scummy. Your view of the game just makes no sense. The scum you are suggesting do not work as partners. You are scum and i twill fill my heart with joy to see you flip red. I have said beforehand that I think you look scummy as shit. This is an opinion I've been returning to despite the thing Rayn quoted. From the skimming over Balla's filter I found him moderately suspicious, but my strongest read was still on you. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:40 bumatlarge wrote: I don't see myself lynching any of Jlaw, Kush or thrawn. You'd have to have really solid evidence to cancel out their play on the day 1 lynch. What I really want to hear is Artanis talk about his read on suki. I don't think she's scum. The way she openly was depressed about not having reads after a scum got lynched is something I'm fairly certain no scum would ever dare burn their fingers on. Especially with how the newbie game went for her I find it hard to see her as scum. | ||
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Quoting it 5 times isn't going to convince anyone dear. I had a strong read on you and a weaker read on Balla because I hadn't actually read through it properly. It was 5 minutes before the deadline. | ||
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And yes you usually have a shit filter but even then you usually have some form of contribution to add. You don't this game. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:51 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah i dont think artanis is even talking about this game anymore I don't think you're reading this game if you think that. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:54 thrawn2112 wrote: you're saying kush isn't doing anything? is this what you're saying? Yes, he hasn't done anything up until I antagonized him too much and now he's trying to get me lynched because he's mad at me. On January 25 2014 03:54 kushm4sta wrote: um artanis i hate to break this to you bro, but im confirmed town due to some dumb shit i did in the first 5 minutes of the game. So you are barking up the wrong tree here. I thought so too but you've been very busy this game to prove that wrong and I'm far from certain on that read now. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:57 kushm4sta wrote: if you thought so, why did you lynch me over balla? Because I didn't realize it until Rayn brought it up. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:58 kushm4sta wrote: rayn brought it up before everyone moved onto balla right? Pretty sure he didn't or he didn't push it until after the lynch. I'll have to go back. On January 25 2014 03:59 thrawn2112 wrote: so i'm guessing neither of you are town reading VE? is this right? I still have a weak town read on VE from the way he approached Bum. | ||
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On January 22 2014 07:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: so are you claiming named VT? or what the fuck are you saying? This is all Rayn said about it before the lynch. He didn't bring his conclusion on it out until after the lynch. | ||
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On January 25 2014 04:03 kushm4sta wrote: @artanis, rayn brought up my vt claim, and that is precisely what caused everyone to switch to balla. He never explicitly said that that's why he wanted to switch. He wanted to switch because he felt better about Balla. It didn't become clear to me how strongly this implicated you were town until he put it down in a sequence. I'm fairly sure most people switched over because they felt Balla was a better lynch, not because they thought that meant you were likely to be town. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On January 25 2014 04:53 bumatlarge wrote: I feel really strongly that JLaw being a mislynch today would lose a lot of traction for town has right now. + Show Spoiler + On January 25 2014 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 1. Interaction with Balla seems fake. He pressures Balla a bit, then when Balla answers him he doesn't do anything with it, just continues to call him scum. He knows the alignment of Balla already so he doesn't actually care about the answers. He just wants interaction for distancing. 2. His read on Kush makes no sense. He says this is exactly how Kush plays. So clearly he knows a lot about Kush's meta. Welp, that's weird. He suddenly forgot 90 minutes later. 3. Voting pattern compared to reads VE already brought this up. He's thought Balla was scum all game long, but doesn't really interact with him much, nor does he vote for him until he's already dead and buried. [b]4. Accuses people without purpose. So there's this thing he found interesting except he could see it done as both alignments. Okay. [b]5. Keeps trying to get cred for the Balla lynch After the lynch, Jonny seems more interested in getting credit for the lynch despite not having voted for him until the last moment than anything else. 6. Can't keep his own story straight Rayn already said it. That should be pretty much slam dunk already. Now for the recent posts which seem to have given people a townread on him somehow. 7. Case on Suki Cases can be bad and that doesn't make the person that makes them scummy. However, the choice of target on its own doesn't make sense. When you're a townie and you feel down and out and there's one person trying to motivate you to try again, who do you filter first to try and find scum? Generally it isn't the person trying to motivate you. So why would a scum JL do it? Because she was the best target that no one had really made a case on yet. Making a case on Bum wouldn't get you any credit because VE's already done it. Suki was the one with the filter easiest to portrait as scum that no one did yet. A perfect target for a scum case. The effort involved wasn't too much either, simply quoting posts and adding a line here and there and suddenly towncred galore. 8. Instant flip with town consensus Okay, now that the town cred has been accrued, let's see who we can actually lynch. Artanis is getting a lot of votes, let's plop my vote down there. What's strange is that the thing that's showing I'm town the most, the effort I put into getting my target lynched, is somehow scummy to him. From all the things in my filter that's what he points out. It shows a lack of a town mindset. Lynch JonnyLaw. He's scum. Lynch me if I'm wrong. 1) While you bring up a lot of neat points, artanis, none of it is really damning. JL talking about balla and not voting him until the end is curious, but eventually he does when it matters, I don't think he is trying to gain anything by it. It looks more like a town thought process. I disagree strongly. This is exactly the kind of thing you want to do as scum; accuse your buddies without getting votes on him. [2) His vote on kush is bad, but again that looks like faulty town play. He never apears to call kush town, just saying "that's how he plays", as either alignment. He is interested in how rayn came to his conclusion. He does think it over before he votes him, the distance between those posts you gave about kush are hours away from each and alot happens in between then. It doesn't look like faulty town play, it looks like a scum who can't keep his story together. Yes, it's hours away but he said he knew exactly how to read Kush, then proceeds to say he doesn't. 3) His vote on zarepath isn't awful either. EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM. I would have rather lynched VE, and I ate flak for taking my vote off him, and you had a town read on me at the time. His reasons are on par with someone trying to scumhunt. You would have to reach a good amount to turn that into scum that is slightly bussing. It's not about whether he thought Zarepath was scum or not, it's about how easily he stepped off the person he thought was scummiest, then proceeded to have no problems with voting for the scumspect of his scumspect. 4) Rayn accuses people without purpose to generate reads. I think JLaw's attacks have a similar goal; to draw out content from certain players. Crossfire had barely any content. He was attempting to bring attention to it an wasn't pushing CF as anything. All of this just indicates that JLaw is reading the thread and trying to come up with reads. I agree that this can be interpreted as both alignments. However, I feel the scummy one is more likely given the rest of the case; JL finds a place to throw poop at and proceeds to do so. 5/6) I think he deserves some... His post with suki about balla "playing his town game" is out of place, though. Not really. He wasn't the one that made it happen, Rayn was. All he did was accuse but convince no one. 7) I find this very silly. He is developing reads, and going into territory no one has gone before is town, not mafia. Your reasons why this is scummy are completely far-fetched. I'm not saying they're scummy per say, but people had scumreads on JL until these posts after which he suddenly became town to them. I'm saying that JL's posts even after D2 where he improved can easily be explained from a scum perspective. 8) This is alignment-read bias. If you are really convinced someone is scum, everything they do is going to have a mafia reason. And it makes perfect sense when you look at him from a mafia perspective, too. Especially with the early stuff it's damning. Anyway, it doesn't matter since I'm getting lynched first. Just lynch JL after I flip green, then treat Kush/Thrawn with extreme scrutiny. I'm out. There's only so much arguing with Kush one can have on one day. GL Town! | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Wasn't really motivated very much after Balla got lynched but I wanted to at least make you guys sweat for it | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On January 25 2014 08:17 JonnyLaw wrote: Artanis your song was epic by the way. Everyone should listen to Wardruna. They are awesome. On January 25 2014 08:18 BarristanTheBold wrote: That was a ballsy fake-claim. I think he could have ridden it out until MYLO/LYLO, but it would have been tough to win IMO. He didn't have much choice to be honest. If he hadn't done anything he would've gotten lynched. It wasn't really a plan, more a desperation move. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Don't have the obs qt yet. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On January 25 2014 08:32 suki wrote: Hey Artanis, in the scum QT you said this: Rule #1 of Mafia: Never shoot Kush. Rule #2 of Mafia: NEVER SHOOT KUSH. I lol'd :D What's the story behind this? Even when Kush is right, he rarely gains traction in the town. As scum you want to shoot the people leading the lynches so you can be the one that leads town. Kush isn't a town leader. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On January 25 2014 08:48 bumatlarge wrote: I think as Zarepath I would have claimed doctor. You guys needed to flush out the possibility, and it was either get a CC or the lynch would be switched. A fakeclaimed doctor wouldn't be too bad if you just planned the kills and fake protections accordingly. I think his claim did really well for him in the end with people bringing up the rules. Odd that they are still stated that way. That wasn't DP's fault. This would've been bad though because a doc still being alive after one night will never be believed. You could instantly claim PC afterwards and Zare would be confirmed scum the moment you died. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On January 25 2014 09:11 JonnyLaw wrote: You did chat a lot early with Balla but I think that's just a comfort thing. The other part was someone mentioned in post game last time that you need to relax and not throw out so many convoluted filters waiting for someone else to latch on to them. And you didn't. You played well I'd say. I think scum should have left rayn alive d2 and I would have been lynched to be honest. Who knows? He might have sniffed out the scummers instead. No, Rayn was definitely the right shot. It allowed me to get some grip on the town. I just let it go too easily. Rayn was by far the strongest townie and we took a risk by shooting him because there could be a doc, but it's a risk we needed to take after a scum lynch d1. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On January 25 2014 13:12 Balla24 wrote: My scum ratio is retarded. Just saying. So depressing rolling scum 3/5 times. I got you beat with 3/4  | ||
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