EPTGolden Sun: The Lost Age Mafia Djinn Edition - Page 189
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
i liked blueuy yesterday and i don't care for the case on him | ||
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sqrtofneg1
Canada1158 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
The start is super chaotic and annoying then everyone stops playing. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:06 sqrtofneg1 wrote: What do you suggest? actually playing mafia for cool points to counterbalance those lost from your name in the eyes of some? | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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sqrtofneg1
Canada1158 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:09 layabout wrote: actually playing mafia for cool points to counterbalance those lost from your name in the eyes of some? Hilarious. I think I've done more than you this game so far. | ||
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sqrtofneg1
Canada1158 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:10 kushm4sta wrote: how about eigenvector That sounds weird. My name has a special character in it. √-1 | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
##Unvote Valenius is still on my scum list. He didn't have much to say on day one and he hasn't said anything yet on day two. He was one of the people who seemed to indicate that they would be on board for a Odin lynch due to a good "case" rather than calling Odin mafia. On May 23 2014 03:55 Valenius wrote: Yeah, that's a reasonable case. Votes going on Odin in a bit unless i find anything in the filter of one/two others first. At 14:55 he mentions that he will vote Odin unless he finds a better case from a few filters. 15 minutes later he posts his case on hapa coming to a scum conclusion. He obviously couldn't have spent much time looking elsewhere during this time due to how quickly he posted it. So if the only person he is looking at is someone without any votes, his statement about finding a better person to vote for isn't really valid. I would think he would be looking at people like Val or tam at that point. Seems like he wanted to show he had a scum read on someone before throwing down his vote on Odin. Based on content, I don't recall steveling standing out as scummy, aside from maybe a couple buddy attempts, but his role claim concerns me the most. The claim would mean he is more concerned about letting to town know that he was shot, than using the role to absorb future shots. On May 24 2014 05:05 Steveling wrote: My role is Lord Babi, my 4 Lemurian Draught casks allow me to survive the next kp targeted on me by consuming them. It doesn't clarify if the bullets are refunded. A four shot self-protect seems more powerful than I would expect out of a town role. He is essentially bulletproof at that point. I've lost my patience with thrawn. I want to lynch him and possibly would consider him my preferred lynch. He has even done this a couple of times in past mafia games, going the entire game without posting. For someone who everyone was ready to kill off most of day one, he has gotten off pretty easy today. I'm willing to understand a busy schedule, but he really better making up for it in the final 24 hours by posting three times as much content. If he shows up and goes back to trolly mode with a read on 1-2 players I would be willing to lynch. Looking at Cephiro's scum games, he has posted those monster walls of text early in the game multiple times as each alignment. I'm not willing to assume he is town based on effort there, especially since the content of the case wasn't very convincing. He hasn't posted since the start of day one. I still need to look at kush. I felt the Foolishness case was pretty easy to throw together. I'm having trouble sensing a time commitment here. I remember him calling jampi town in passing through, which reminded me of his behavior in the Aperture game. I think I'd prefer thrawn over meat if we're going to go with a inactive lynch. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:12 kushm4sta wrote: why thrawn over meat Seems like thrawn is lurking, while meat is inactive and thrawn has past history of lurking as mafia. Showing up just to post "you shouldn't lynch me" annoyed me a bit as well. I have higher expectations of thrawn, though I'm not too familiar with meat. I wouldn't oppose votes on meat though considering his "Im going to play my trademark lazy town until i need to try hard" statement. | ||
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BlueyD
Canada437 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On May 25 2014 07:47 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Okay guys. Back again. I'm not so sure about today's lynch so far. It seems like we have 3 or 4 main guys to lynch: Kush Tambo BlueyD and Meat. I have a few questions for each of you. @Kush: What have you done to help town this game? Who is your top town read? Scum read? @Tambo: What is your view on Kush and BlueyD so far? What is the most significant post of D2 so far? @BlueyD: You've made cases on Yellow and Cav so far. Who else do you see as potential scum? @Meat: Why aren't you active? Do you have anything to contribute? There is no way this guy is reading the thread and asking me what my reads are after that giant post I made today. His post manages to say nothing at all about why he scumreads these people in particular. Let me say it like this, sqrt: Among some others, I scumread you. --- On May 25 2014 07:03 thrawn2112 wrote: you shouldnt lynch me. it's in your best interests to keep me alive Oh come on. I gave you a free pass for a lazy day 1 and was willing to extend that to day 2 as well but this is just not acceptable. I’ve seen you do some good stuff in Yuma as town, I’ve seen you find scum, I’ve seen you pull a big play. The last thing I expected from you was starting the game with a defensive soft blue claim before even bothering to try analysis. I don’t buy it one second. Patience officially lost. ##vote thrawn | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
TAKE NOTE: marv said that he and BH were confirmed town to each other but i cannot for the life of me find BH agreeing with this which should have been a priority of his the moment he saw that marv had written it. If they are confirmed to each other regardless of whether if helps us now we need to know it before one of them flips. It would leave us exposed to a flip manipulating role but since it's alignment flip it would be a ridiculous level of host setup bullshit for such a role o be there. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17322 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:18 layabout wrote: oh ive been waiting on valenius too TAKE NOTE: marv said that he and BH were confirmed town to each other but i cannot for the life of me find BH agreeing with this which should have been a priority of his the moment he saw that marv had written it. If they are confirmed to each other regardless of whether if helps us now we need to know it before one of them flips. It would leave us exposed to a flip manipulating role but since it's alignment flip it would be a ridiculous level of host setup bullshit for such a role o be there. Call me a fool and hypocrite, but. Say again? No CHUPAZI, no grammar bads, I think I might possibly get what you are saying. I believe it is not complex but my duncery requires you state it differently | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:37 Alakaslam wrote: Call me a fool and hypocrite, but. Say again? No CHUPAZI, no grammar bads, I think I might possibly get what you are saying. I believe it is not complex but my duncery requires you state it differently CLICK ME On May 24 2014 06:43 marvellosity wrote: anyway BH and I are confirmed town to each other, so can we just stop this please? bh was around bh totally ignored this. Major wtfs if they are both town and and confirmed to each other and that happened | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On May 25 2014 09:14 marvellosity wrote: Honestly the more you post the better, so yes I'll take you up on the examples when you have time. No rush ^^ Again when you're ready, could you pick out the suspicions that Hapa made that you don't think are logical or genuine? Because you can disagree with someone's reads but that doesn't mean that person is faking it. With regards to jampidampi, do you take into the account any of the past games/history with him that I talked about recently? Does that affect your read, if not, why? I will start with the jampidampi stuff because it is shorter: does it affect my read? Not really unfortunately. The problem with past games that I wasn't a part of as evidence is that it is really hard for me to connect with them. I have played a lot of mafia outside of TL, and in those games there's a level of emotional connection/investment that isn't there when you read/observe a game that you're not part of. Also, the information you're provided at the start of the game colors your perspective on the game substantially. So basically what I am saying is that I wasn't a part of the game, and while I appreciate the information and it helps in regards to tone and posting style; it won't help with the feelings part of the read because I wasn't emotionally invested in that game at all. This is kinda related to both Hapa and jampidampi, but you said look for things that don't look logical. I guess this may just be a difference in gameplay perspective, but I think often times the people who try to be the absolute most logical all the time tend to be a bit scummier for me. I like to moreso look for things that are odd or don't make a lot of sense, things that are predicated on people having more info than me, and things that just don't feel right. That's how I feel about jampi. Bunnies said "I will never lynch MZ this game", MZ was like "WHAT? thats scummy" which felt genuine and made him my #1 town, and jampi said "You're scummy for finding that scummy MZ", which to me feels just completely weird and that feeling overrules your past game stuff. Call me an emotional dude if you want. So then, what's odd or feels off about Hapa. Well geript was critical of my tambo read and wtf happened to it, and I personally think that Hapa's is even weirder. On May 22 2014 07:02 Hapahauli wrote: Alright finished reading the thread, and my thoughts haven't changed too much. mtamburini's still my lynch of choice today. I've already made some thoughts on her larger quote-bomb post... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=38#745 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=40#787 ...and foolishness has a post on her as well... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=55#1087 Just to add to this though, I found this post which is all sorts of WAT: She quote's ceph's giant case on Bunnies and basically blindly agrees with it. There's no indication in this post that she's actually read the damn thing - it's almost like she looks at the case, sees it's big, and just sheeps it. Furthermore, the bolded comment is incredibly strange, given that yellow flipped town in the game in-question. You'd think she would exhibit more pause after wanting to lynch a townie for similar rationale, but instead she bolsters her suspicions with it... that just makes very little sense from a town perspective. Of all the points against her, I think this is the most compelling. Ritoky/Valenius I've seen these two mentioned as possible scum candidates. Austin's case on Ritoky is somewhat compelling, however I don't think it takes into account the sheer difference between a mini-newbie game and a 32-person monster-spamfest. The wishy-washiness to me could be explained by how intimidating/confusing this thread is to a newer player. Hell I'm having problems keeping track of this myself, and I'm considered a "vet." All and all, I agree that they're playing differently than their town metas have shown in the past, but I think that it could be explained by the difference in gametypes. This is the beginning of it. Then tambo starts to come back and they have some exchanges, all of which it seems like hapa comes out on the negative side of. On May 23 2014 01:13 Hapahauli wrote: Ok I have no idea what you mean by the bolded. Regarding your Day 1 play, one thing that makes me fairly suspicious of you was your entirely different approach to Day 1 in the recently concluded newbie game. In that game, you came out extremely confident with very straightforward pressure/reads. This is in complete contrast to this game, where your approach has reflected your "vague and inconclusive" self-descriptor. Then suddenly after saying a lot of things don't make any sense by tambo and tambo being dodgy at first, suddenly he believes he missed. Not particularly for any reason either. On May 23 2014 01:20 Hapahauli wrote: ##Unvote I'm starting to think I missed on tambo. Going to re-read and re-evaluate. He then goes on valenius primarily on a sheeped read by OnceKing, and says he is 100% the best lynch for the day. But wait! On May 23 2014 03:02 Hapahauli wrote: I'll consider switching to Odin depending on what Valenius comes up with in the next few hours. Can't do much on my phone, but I can and will be reading. Then he votes on Odin. His next post is accusatory toward those who swapped votes at the last moment without any reason. Hypocrisy thy name is Hapa. But this much is off topic from my main point, which is the strangeness of his tambo read. So what did happen to that? On May 24 2014 03:25 Hapahauli wrote: I'm going to use the above votecount to structure my thoughts. By looking at the votes, we can get a better idea about the motivations of certain players, and it can help identify certain mafia tells that might be present in a multi-faction game. I'm dividing posters into 3 categories:
People off of the main wagons: There's a good chance that certain mafia/faction members will want to "blend-in" and "hide", and one very instinctual way of doing that is to avoid the main course of discussion, take "non-controversial" stances, and avoid contributing by pursuing/voting someone who is not being talked about and has very little chance of getting lynched. In this category of players, we have: mtamburini rikoty geript Cephiro Tehpoofter kitaman sqrtofneg1 WaveofShadow I'm going to start with Mafia Reads, move to Null Reads, and then to Townies: Mtamburini + Show Spoiler + Mtamburini's vote looks extremely bad by all accounts. On May 23 2014 03:45 mtamburini wrote: I Vote:: tehpoofter why? No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS harharharhar Tehpoofter had virtually no chance of getting lynched yesterday, and this is the definition of a wasted vote by all accounts. His reasoning for placing his vote where it was is also pretty suspect: why? No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote: I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null. ... On May 23 2014 04:59 mtamburini wrote: tehpoofter uses sarcasm as either allignment but you can usually tell by the tone of his sarcasm what allignement he is. From his initial posts Im reading the sarcasm as more scummy then towny All of this is really strange. The first two quotes can be barely considered reads. The 3rd quote is extremely manufactured and makes very little sense - tambo had never mentioned tehpoofters "sarcasm" all game, and then it shows up in a very mystical and unexplained read (what is the difference between town/mafia sarcasm?). Quote #2 is additionally strange - he voted a read (tehpoofter) that he felt was moving from Scummy to Null. Not only is this really weak, but he did so over Bunnies, who he's been seemingly tunneling most of the game, and has explicitly called her a strong scum-read in earlier posts. His rationale for not voting Bunnies is weak and makes little sense: On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote: ... Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. ... To understand why this makes so little sense, read this post... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=45#896 ...then read page 3 of his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?user=mtamburini&page=3 He doesn't vote a scumread because he believes that scumread could be town, but then votes tehpoofter (his "scummy moving to null" read) because... man I don't even know. sqrtofneg1 + Show Spoiler + His deadline behavior is pretty strange. After he comes back a couple of hours before lynch deadline, he quickly establishes a town-read on Odin... On May 23 2014 03:03 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Okay, looking at Odin's filter myself, I think he's just a vanilla townie. Scum would try harder to get out of it. As a vanilla townie, he wouldn't care. On May 23 2014 03:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote: I recommend lynching Val. Odin may seem scum, but I think he's VT. It's a very poorly explained town-read. His point about "Odin not trying to get out of the lynch" doesn't make much sense either, since Odin had stated earlier he'd be gone until the deadline. Futhermore, Odin was under very little pressure at the time he said that. It seems more like he's trying to justify not voting for Odin as opposed to being sincere with his read. Sqrt then pops down a very "clean" vote on Valenius... On May 23 2014 03:12 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Okay, I've played games with both tambo and val, and here's what I've got so far. Valenius's filter from NMM LIV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445959-newbie-mini-mafia-liv?user=Valenius&view=all He was vanilla town. He was much more active in scumhunting, he was much more direct, he was different. Tambo's filter from NMM LV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?user=mtamburini He was vanilla town. The filter is a bit more strange because he claimed vig, but it's more accurate of his play than when he was cop imo. I've concluded that Valenius has been acting more strange, in comparison, rather than Tambo. ##Unvote ##Vote: Valenius ... then POOF! He's gone for the last two hours of shenanigans! Despite having a town read on Odin, he never seems to try and act on it to prevent it. He disappears... then instantly reappears at lynch deadline! This is a really suspicious 2 hours of absence. Another *really* odd thing about his filter is how many town reads he gives out over the course of the game. He gives them out like candy, is seemingly confident in a lot of them, and... yeah. I'm not sure if this is a mafia tell in this particular setup, but it's something that definetely caught my eye on a readthrough. Cephiro + Show Spoiler + Given that Cephiro was AFK for the last half of the day, it's hard for me to get an accurate read on him. However the first half of his day 1 play seems like it would come from some sort of faction. I won't talk much about the contents of his big case. What's more important is that he didn't talk about anything other than his case on bunnies at all. This lines up with the idea of a faction wanting to "hunt" for players, but not necessarily interested in contributing to town discussion. Again, hard to make a complete read on him due to him being AFK for a while, but his play objectively fits pretty well with how I'd think a faction member hunting other faction members would approach this game: find a target, push him/her, and really not contribute to town discussion otherwise. Ritoky + Show Spoiler + Hard to say. His play is pretty short and straightforward. He believed layabout was scum, voted him, and then had to step out: On May 22 2014 19:48 ritoky wrote: Well, I am going to sleep and I am not sure if I will make it back before the deadline. For me it's between WOS and layabout. WOS contributes and I basically don't like much of anything he says. Layabout doesn't contribute, and when he does its mostly shit filling. Gonna go with layabout. ##vote layabout Nothing in his filter that screams his alignment one way or the other. WaveofShadow + Show Spoiler + Well he replaced out. This makes a lot of his lack of interest and activity in the latter half of the game pretty explainable. I wasn't altogether please with his play (especially his stuff on Holyflare), but it's better not to make judgements about an incomplete filter and let his replacement talk some. Geript I believe to be town. Geript is extremely active and emotional this game. His tunnels seem very genuine, and while he ended up on BlazingHand, he definitely was very involved in the chaos and discussion of the day. He's drawn a ton of attention to himself, and really isn't someone I'm concerned about. Tehpoofter I'm less sure about, but I think he's town. He's playing extraordinarily different from his scum-game in You Only Shoot Once, and was fairly active/involved early on. He was afk for the last ~24 hours of the day (not changing his vote or posting at all), which leads me to believe his vote being off of one of the main wagons is a null-tell. Based on his early day behavior, I give him a moderate town read, with the expectation that he continues that in future days. Wait what? You thought we missed on him? Now he is not only red, but BOLDED red compared to val who isn't and me who is black? For having a throwaway vote and being generally disengaged/sarcastic? Your outlook on scum defending themselves from being BW'd sure is different than mine. Generally I think his tambo read progression is just non-committal, weird, and doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I feel as if he is trying to push what he feels are easy MLs on targets that don't post much and are new to the game. But the strangest thing for me, or the thing I find the most odd, is that his criticism is uneven. He calls out geript for confirmation bias then sits idly by while BH pushes a case full of confirmation bias. He swaps his vote to odin for no stated reason and because others are doing it, then criticizes those who swapped their vote for no reason. He doesn't like how people aren't pushing cases, but his two largest cases are against val (a case mostly made by onceking imo) and me (a case mostly made by layabout imo). He is criticizing people for things he himself is doing. Maybe it is just bad play and I am being a stick in the mud about it. Something here is just off, I can feel it. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:47 layabout wrote: CLICK ME bh was around bh totally ignored this. Major wtfs if they are both town and and confirmed to each other and that happened And I'm still ignoring it now! Look at that.  | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:10 kitaman27 wrote: Looking at Cephiro's scum games, he has posted those monster walls of text early in the game multiple times as each alignment. I'm not willing to assume he is town based on effort there, especially since the content of the case wasn't very convincing. He hasn't posted since the start of day one. My heuristic is - long walls of text - not alignment indicative are the long walls of text eminently reasonable? -> mafia are the long walls of text not that reasonable, tunnelly, hammering away at a certain point, convoluted -> town Also Ceph kinda feels like he owns the place when he's town, less as mafia, check it out. Yes, his absence is pretty terrible. But those are my thoughts ^ let me know if you want me to elaborate/discuss | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On May 25 2014 10:58 Blazinghand wrote: And I'm still ignoring it now! Look at that. this is just another bullet point on the imaginary list of reasons for why i hate your play and always want a gun | ||
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