EPTGroup 1 - People leaving things to be desired:
Tehpoofter - Pretty sure this guy was one of the towniest towns to ever town for a solid 6-8 hrs during D1, and since then he has mostly disappeared. I don't know if it's irl related, or too much reading, or intentional; but from what I understand he has certainly played enough mafia in his days for it to not just be him being overwhelmed by the volume of the thread. While he hasn't done enough of this for me to wash away his shiny town smell. He certainly is leaving things to be desired.
27ninjabunnies - This may sound a bit weird, but if I ignore your first 5 pages of your 9 page filter (the majority of which happened within the first 24 hours of the game starting); then I am highly underwhelmed. There's a lot of OGI irl posts, a lot of "hey catching up posts", and a lot of slight subtle commentary posts. It is clearly present that you are here a lot and reading the thread frequently; and yet you haven't pushed a case very strongly on anyone since the minor effort you put on tamburini. This was certainly not the town bunnies I was ride or die with on day 1 of the last newbie game. Your stock is plummeting for me and you are leaving things to be desired.
mtabmburini - You sure are making it hard to not push on you due to policy. Your level of disengagement from the game is astounding. My gut tells me it is because you rolled VT for the 2nd game in a row and are bored, but your play leaves things to be desired.
Group 2 - Where are you scooby doo?
mysterymeat1/errandor - you're in this game? coulda fooled me.
Group 3 - Dem townies
Layabout - I voted for you yesterday for lack of contribution, and boy did that make you mad. I stand behind what I said at the time, but since then you have picked it up. All of it has been angry and tunneled on me, which you are wrong about and is a bit of an OMGUS, but I like your response. You've got pluck kiddo, you be one of dem townies.
BlueyD - If you can't read that last long post and smell the innocence seeping off of it. I think we speak different languages. I speak 5 languages....so hopefully you don't speak enlgish, japanese, korean, spanish, or portuguese....he one of dem townies.
BH/Alakaslam (i think it was him?) - They claimed fairly prominent names from the Golden Sun series openly in the thread, have not been counterclaimed, and were not shot in the night as a result of claiming someone elses role. So until I have reason to disbelieve these claims or mathematical reason to be forced to lynch one in the event that they are lying. They go in the pile with dem townies.
Austinmcc/geript - Ya know, these two are probably my reads that have the least raisin. I mostly just enjoy and like most of what they type. They smell like the rest of dem townies.
Yell0w - He had a level of lack of self awareness that forced me to read him as town after a little bit during the last newbie game. His lack of awareness about the RNG thing and some of his other posts read much the same to me. So I would consider him one of dem townies for now
Group 4 - Pretty much scum
Hapahauli - Now I think this one will come as a bit of a shocker to a few, but quite frankly he has had warning signs on him for me for a while. So let us examine, in particular his scum reads currently:
On May 24 2014 03:25 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm going to use the above votecount to structure my thoughts. By looking at the votes, we can get a better idea about the motivations of certain players, and it can help identify certain mafia tells that might be present in a multi-faction game. I'm dividing posters into 3 categories:
People off of the main wagons:
There's a good chance that certain mafia/faction members will want to "blend-in" and "hide", and one very instinctual way of doing that is to avoid the main course of discussion, take "non-controversial" stances, and avoid contributing by pursuing/voting someone who is not being talked about and has very little chance of getting lynched.
In this category of players, we have:
mtamburini
rikoty
geript
Cephiro
Tehpoofter
kitaman
sqrtofneg1
WaveofShadow
I'm going to start with Mafia Reads, move to Null Reads, and then to Townies:
Mtamburini
+ Show Spoiler +
sqrtofneg1
+ Show Spoiler +
Cephiro
+ Show Spoiler +
Ritoky
+ Show Spoiler +
WaveofShadow
+ Show Spoiler +
Geript I believe to be town. Geript is extremely active and emotional this game. His tunnels seem very genuine, and while he ended up on BlazingHand, he definitely was very involved in the chaos and discussion of the day. He's drawn a ton of attention to himself, and really isn't someone I'm concerned about.
Tehpoofter I'm less sure about, but I think he's town. He's playing extraordinarily different from his scum-game in You Only Shoot Once, and was fairly active/involved early on. He was afk for the last ~24 hours of the day (not changing his vote or posting at all), which leads me to believe his vote being off of one of the main wagons is a null-tell. Based on his early day behavior, I give him a moderate town read, with the expectation that he continues that in future days.
I'm going to use the above votecount to structure my thoughts. By looking at the votes, we can get a better idea about the motivations of certain players, and it can help identify certain mafia tells that might be present in a multi-faction game. I'm dividing posters into 3 categories:
- People off of the main wagons
- People who voted Odin
- People who voted Tambo
People off of the main wagons:
There's a good chance that certain mafia/faction members will want to "blend-in" and "hide", and one very instinctual way of doing that is to avoid the main course of discussion, take "non-controversial" stances, and avoid contributing by pursuing/voting someone who is not being talked about and has very little chance of getting lynched.
In this category of players, we have:
mtamburini
rikoty
geript
Cephiro
Tehpoofter
kitaman
sqrtofneg1
WaveofShadow
I'm going to start with Mafia Reads, move to Null Reads, and then to Townies:
Mtamburini
+ Show Spoiler +
Mtamburini's vote looks extremely bad by all accounts.
Tehpoofter had virtually no chance of getting lynched yesterday, and this is the definition of a wasted vote by all accounts. His reasoning for placing his vote where it was is also pretty suspect:
All of this is really strange. The first two quotes can be barely considered reads. The 3rd quote is extremely manufactured and makes very little sense - tambo had never mentioned tehpoofters "sarcasm" all game, and then it shows up in a very mystical and unexplained read (what is the difference between town/mafia sarcasm?).
Quote #2 is additionally strange - he voted a read (tehpoofter) that he felt was moving from Scummy to Null. Not only is this really weak, but he did so over Bunnies, who he's been seemingly tunneling most of the game, and has explicitly called her a strong scum-read in earlier posts. His rationale for not voting Bunnies is weak and makes little sense:
To understand why this makes so little sense, read this post...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=45#896
...then read page 3 of his filter:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?user=mtamburini&page=3
He doesn't vote a scumread because he believes that scumread could be town, but then votes tehpoofter (his "scummy moving to null" read) because... man I don't even know.
On May 23 2014 03:45 mtamburini wrote:
I Vote:: tehpoofter
why?
No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS
harharharhar
I Vote:: tehpoofter
why?
No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS
harharharhar
Tehpoofter had virtually no chance of getting lynched yesterday, and this is the definition of a wasted vote by all accounts. His reasoning for placing his vote where it was is also pretty suspect:
why?
No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS
No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS
On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:
I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null.
...
I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null.
...
On May 23 2014 04:59 mtamburini wrote:
tehpoofter uses sarcasm as either allignment but you can usually tell by the tone of his sarcasm what allignement he is. From his initial posts Im reading the sarcasm as more scummy then towny
tehpoofter uses sarcasm as either allignment but you can usually tell by the tone of his sarcasm what allignement he is. From his initial posts Im reading the sarcasm as more scummy then towny
All of this is really strange. The first two quotes can be barely considered reads. The 3rd quote is extremely manufactured and makes very little sense - tambo had never mentioned tehpoofters "sarcasm" all game, and then it shows up in a very mystical and unexplained read (what is the difference between town/mafia sarcasm?).
Quote #2 is additionally strange - he voted a read (tehpoofter) that he felt was moving from Scummy to Null. Not only is this really weak, but he did so over Bunnies, who he's been seemingly tunneling most of the game, and has explicitly called her a strong scum-read in earlier posts. His rationale for not voting Bunnies is weak and makes little sense:
On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:
...
Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear.
...
...
Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear.
...
To understand why this makes so little sense, read this post...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=45#896
...then read page 3 of his filter:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?user=mtamburini&page=3
He doesn't vote a scumread because he believes that scumread could be town, but then votes tehpoofter (his "scummy moving to null" read) because... man I don't even know.
sqrtofneg1
+ Show Spoiler +
His deadline behavior is pretty strange.
After he comes back a couple of hours before lynch deadline, he quickly establishes a town-read on Odin...
It's a very poorly explained town-read. His point about "Odin not trying to get out of the lynch" doesn't make much sense either, since Odin had stated earlier he'd be gone until the deadline. Futhermore, Odin was under very little pressure at the time he said that. It seems more like he's trying to justify not voting for Odin as opposed to being sincere with his read.
Sqrt then pops down a very "clean" vote on Valenius...
... then POOF! He's gone for the last two hours of shenanigans! Despite having a town read on Odin, he never seems to try and act on it to prevent it. He disappears... then instantly reappears at lynch deadline! This is a really suspicious 2 hours of absence.
Another *really* odd thing about his filter is how many town reads he gives out over the course of the game. He gives them out like candy, is seemingly confident in a lot of them, and... yeah. I'm not sure if this is a mafia tell in this particular setup, but it's something that definetely caught my eye on a readthrough.
After he comes back a couple of hours before lynch deadline, he quickly establishes a town-read on Odin...
On May 23 2014 03:03 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, looking at Odin's filter myself, I think he's just a vanilla townie.
Scum would try harder to get out of it. As a vanilla townie, he wouldn't care.
Okay, looking at Odin's filter myself, I think he's just a vanilla townie.
Scum would try harder to get out of it. As a vanilla townie, he wouldn't care.
On May 23 2014 03:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I recommend lynching Val.
Odin may seem scum, but I think he's VT.
I recommend lynching Val.
Odin may seem scum, but I think he's VT.
It's a very poorly explained town-read. His point about "Odin not trying to get out of the lynch" doesn't make much sense either, since Odin had stated earlier he'd be gone until the deadline. Futhermore, Odin was under very little pressure at the time he said that. It seems more like he's trying to justify not voting for Odin as opposed to being sincere with his read.
Sqrt then pops down a very "clean" vote on Valenius...
On May 23 2014 03:12 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, I've played games with both tambo and val, and here's what I've got so far.
Valenius's filter from NMM LIV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445959-newbie-mini-mafia-liv?user=Valenius&view=all
He was vanilla town. He was much more active in scumhunting, he was much more direct, he was different.
Tambo's filter from NMM LV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?user=mtamburini
He was vanilla town. The filter is a bit more strange because he claimed vig, but it's more accurate of his play than when he was cop imo.
I've concluded that Valenius has been acting more strange, in comparison, rather than Tambo.
##Unvote
##Vote: Valenius
Okay, I've played games with both tambo and val, and here's what I've got so far.
Valenius's filter from NMM LIV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445959-newbie-mini-mafia-liv?user=Valenius&view=all
He was vanilla town. He was much more active in scumhunting, he was much more direct, he was different.
Tambo's filter from NMM LV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?user=mtamburini
He was vanilla town. The filter is a bit more strange because he claimed vig, but it's more accurate of his play than when he was cop imo.
I've concluded that Valenius has been acting more strange, in comparison, rather than Tambo.
##Unvote
##Vote: Valenius
... then POOF! He's gone for the last two hours of shenanigans! Despite having a town read on Odin, he never seems to try and act on it to prevent it. He disappears... then instantly reappears at lynch deadline! This is a really suspicious 2 hours of absence.
Another *really* odd thing about his filter is how many town reads he gives out over the course of the game. He gives them out like candy, is seemingly confident in a lot of them, and... yeah. I'm not sure if this is a mafia tell in this particular setup, but it's something that definetely caught my eye on a readthrough.
Cephiro
+ Show Spoiler +
Given that Cephiro was AFK for the last half of the day, it's hard for me to get an accurate read on him. However the first half of his day 1 play seems like it would come from some sort of faction.
I won't talk much about the contents of his big case. What's more important is that he didn't talk about anything other than his case on bunnies at all. This lines up with the idea of a faction wanting to "hunt" for players, but not necessarily interested in contributing to town discussion.
Again, hard to make a complete read on him due to him being AFK for a while, but his play objectively fits pretty well with how I'd think a faction member hunting other faction members would approach this game: find a target, push him/her, and really not contribute to town discussion otherwise.
I won't talk much about the contents of his big case. What's more important is that he didn't talk about anything other than his case on bunnies at all. This lines up with the idea of a faction wanting to "hunt" for players, but not necessarily interested in contributing to town discussion.
Again, hard to make a complete read on him due to him being AFK for a while, but his play objectively fits pretty well with how I'd think a faction member hunting other faction members would approach this game: find a target, push him/her, and really not contribute to town discussion otherwise.
Ritoky
+ Show Spoiler +
Hard to say. His play is pretty short and straightforward. He believed layabout was scum, voted him, and then had to step out:
Nothing in his filter that screams his alignment one way or the other.
On May 22 2014 19:48 ritoky wrote:
Well, I am going to sleep and I am not sure if I will make it back before the deadline.
For me it's between WOS and layabout.
WOS contributes and I basically don't like much of anything he says.
Layabout doesn't contribute, and when he does its mostly shit filling.
Gonna go with layabout. ##vote layabout
Well, I am going to sleep and I am not sure if I will make it back before the deadline.
For me it's between WOS and layabout.
WOS contributes and I basically don't like much of anything he says.
Layabout doesn't contribute, and when he does its mostly shit filling.
Gonna go with layabout. ##vote layabout
Nothing in his filter that screams his alignment one way or the other.
WaveofShadow
+ Show Spoiler +
Well he replaced out. This makes a lot of his lack of interest and activity in the latter half of the game pretty explainable. I wasn't altogether please with his play (especially his stuff on Holyflare), but it's better not to make judgements about an incomplete filter and let his replacement talk some.
Geript I believe to be town. Geript is extremely active and emotional this game. His tunnels seem very genuine, and while he ended up on BlazingHand, he definitely was very involved in the chaos and discussion of the day. He's drawn a ton of attention to himself, and really isn't someone I'm concerned about.
Tehpoofter I'm less sure about, but I think he's town. He's playing extraordinarily different from his scum-game in You Only Shoot Once, and was fairly active/involved early on. He was afk for the last ~24 hours of the day (not changing his vote or posting at all), which leads me to believe his vote being off of one of the main wagons is a null-tell. Based on his early day behavior, I give him a moderate town read, with the expectation that he continues that in future days.
On May 24 2014 04:35 Hapahauli wrote:
This post was supposed to be a bit longer, but I'm running out of time until the deadline, and I need to talk to austin apparently.
Might be bombing more reads as I go through filters.
Yell0w
+ Show Spoiler +
Alakaslam
+ Show Spoiler +
Kushm4sta (Shoot him!)
+ Show Spoiler +
Posted after the lynch. People who vote for reasons *other* than lynching mafia are mafia themselves and should die. I really don't think this is simply kush being kush either. When he's town, he trolls the shit out of people but atleast has town objectives in his heart.
There's also some weird stuff in his filter. When marv posts that "all vets who sheeped the Odin lynch are suspicious", Kush INSTANTLY re-activates and defends himself:
... posting this, followed by two other posts (quoted above).
He's just very angry this game in general. I don't get any sense of playful trolling that I've seen in other of Kush's less-active town games.
Valenius
+ Show Spoiler +
This post was supposed to be a bit longer, but I'm running out of time until the deadline, and I need to talk to austin apparently.
Might be bombing more reads as I go through filters.
Yell0w
+ Show Spoiler +
Pretty simple:
Votes Odin pretty early in the game in support of the "RNG lynch" thing.
13 hours later, he has scumreads! He very specifically has a STRONG scumread on tamburini and has seemingly a very good reason to vote him right away.
But he doesn't vote tamburini... or anyone. Despite being active ~5 hours before lynch deadline. He comes back in the thread, makes several posts that provide very little content, then is gone.
I realize that Yell0w has been considered lynchbait in the past, but goddamn voting RNG over a very clear scumread (tambo) is a pretty glaring scumtell.
Votes Odin pretty early in the game in support of the "RNG lynch" thing.
On May 21 2014 08:55 Yell0w wrote:
Okay so I'm behind an RNG lynch, I understand my idea wouldn't work since people don't want to random their vote and if most don't do it it'll never work, so I'll just vote Odin. I was willing to wait for people to say why they were against it, but nobody gave a good reason not to do it, in my opinion.
##Vote: OdinofPergo
Okay so I'm behind an RNG lynch, I understand my idea wouldn't work since people don't want to random their vote and if most don't do it it'll never work, so I'll just vote Odin. I was willing to wait for people to say why they were against it, but nobody gave a good reason not to do it, in my opinion.
##Vote: OdinofPergo
13 hours later, he has scumreads! He very specifically has a STRONG scumread on tamburini and has seemingly a very good reason to vote him right away.
On May 22 2014 00:19 Yell0w wrote:
...
ritoky: leaning scum, he hasn't posted enough for me to think he isn't, just made big posts to make it seems like he's contributing to town instead of actively participating in the thread like he did last game.
tamburini: scum, I didn't like the big post he made, it all seemed like fluff, he was basically just giving his gut reads on people as he was reading the thread, which is pretty much useless to anyone but him. He's been very different from the game I played with him where he was town.
...
...
ritoky: leaning scum, he hasn't posted enough for me to think he isn't, just made big posts to make it seems like he's contributing to town instead of actively participating in the thread like he did last game.
tamburini: scum, I didn't like the big post he made, it all seemed like fluff, he was basically just giving his gut reads on people as he was reading the thread, which is pretty much useless to anyone but him. He's been very different from the game I played with him where he was town.
...
But he doesn't vote tamburini... or anyone. Despite being active ~5 hours before lynch deadline. He comes back in the thread, makes several posts that provide very little content, then is gone.
I realize that Yell0w has been considered lynchbait in the past, but goddamn voting RNG over a very clear scumread (tambo) is a pretty glaring scumtell.
Alakaslam
+ Show Spoiler +
I put Alakaslam next because he's in an identical situation to Yell0w: voted to RNG lynch Odin and pretty much stuck with it.
The problem is, I can't read Alakaslam for shit and my mind melts when I read his filter. I'm biased to interpret everything he says as genuine, so yeah. I'd need some second opinions here.
The problem is, I can't read Alakaslam for shit and my mind melts when I read his filter. I'm biased to interpret everything he says as genuine, so yeah. I'd need some second opinions here.
Kushm4sta (Shoot him!)
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 23 2014 05:50 kushm4sta wrote:
to be fair i switched to odin purely for the lolz of bh retardation
to be fair i switched to odin purely for the lolz of bh retardation
On May 23 2014 05:50 kushm4sta wrote:
i switched before bh made his shit case
i switched before bh made his shit case
Posted after the lynch. People who vote for reasons *other* than lynching mafia are mafia themselves and should die. I really don't think this is simply kush being kush either. When he's town, he trolls the shit out of people but atleast has town objectives in his heart.
There's also some weird stuff in his filter. When marv posts that "all vets who sheeped the Odin lynch are suspicious", Kush INSTANTLY re-activates and defends himself:
On May 23 2014 05:49 kushm4sta wrote:
like me?
btw i think wos requesting replacement means he is town
like me?
btw i think wos requesting replacement means he is town
... posting this, followed by two other posts (quoted above).
He's just very angry this game in general. I don't get any sense of playful trolling that I've seen in other of Kush's less-active town games.
Valenius
+ Show Spoiler +
I've said all that I need to about him really. There are several posts in my filter about him.
tl;dr, he's shitposting and +1'ing people a lot. It feels like mafia having a hard time contributing. He has two analysis pieces, one that I covered earlier...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=118#2356
... and another that's pretty simply an OMGUS case against me.
He feels like mafia trying to hide. His contributions have been weak, and good portion of his filter are pointless one-liners.
That being said, I think there are other priorities over him right now. It is possible that he's just a newbie with severe self-confidence issues, and I think I have stronger reads on Tambo, Yell0w, and kush.
tl;dr, he's shitposting and +1'ing people a lot. It feels like mafia having a hard time contributing. He has two analysis pieces, one that I covered earlier...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=118#2356
... and another that's pretty simply an OMGUS case against me.
He feels like mafia trying to hide. His contributions have been weak, and good portion of his filter are pointless one-liners.
That being said, I think there are other priorities over him right now. It is possible that he's just a newbie with severe self-confidence issues, and I think I have stronger reads on Tambo, Yell0w, and kush.
If you ignore kush, who I believe is a bit of a different case, especially now. The rest of his scum and leaning scum reads are on people with 2 page to 4 page filters at best and tend to be newer players. And most of his town reads throughout the game are on people who have very large filters and have played a lot of games. To me he reads like scum trying to push MLs on people who will offer not as much resistance or who he feels he can get a policy lynch on. Outside of that, he has very inconsistent criticism. As I pointed out earlier, he criticized geript for having confirmation bias on Steveling, yet he didn't criticize BH for having confirmation bias on Odin; and his reason? Because he says BH's case was good. So confirmation bias doesn't apply when you think the person has a good case?
Then later he is critical of people who did sudden vote swaps late in the phase, especially those without reason. Yet his hypocrisy is on full display as he is one of the people who did this. Hell, his filter even has a nice "I told you so" post after he switched off of Val onto Odin, even after Val posted something that was pretty much garbage late in the phase that wouldn't have made me switch votes.
Lastly, this is just a gut read, but I get the read that a lot of his posts are sending out feelers. He doesn't ever go all-in or really push. He sends out feelers to see if there's support. Then later he pushes if there is or drops it if there is not. For example I am a neutral read in his reads above, but as soon as layabout starts getting angry at me, Hapa is behind him giving him a little boost. He is pretty much scum in my mind.
jampidampi - I have found him strange for a while. He was very supportive of 27ninjabunnies after what I thought was a poor defense at the time. He even was supportive of her strange comment of having absolute non-lynches day 1. He also found my former #1 town MZ scummy for finding bunnies odd for that comment. Austin's case on him just further drives me down the path that I think he is pretty much scum.
Group 5 - I can't read this guy
Sqrtofneg1 - Yo, I got this guy completely wrong last game, and he is acting completely different this game. And I am not confident in my read again. I just think I can't read this guy
Group 6 - No strong opinions
Everyone Else
