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On January 03 2014 19:24 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 19:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Well Mr.Grackaroni, explain this: On December 27 2013 21:48 Grackaroni wrote:
Adam/Hopeless/Rayn sounds pretty good. Nothing here suggests a change in your reads. Grackaroni: Nay I don't think looking for filter consistency is the right way to go about scum hunting in general. If I want my filter to be consistent I can make it consistent. I liked both you/hopeless but not enough to yay vote the first mission. I was going to nay vote any mission the first few days regardless of the team because there was only like 20 pages of thread.
Filter consistency is the only way to scumhunt because if your filter is not consistent then you are scum as you change your mind based on nothing - something you don't do as town.
What do you suggest is how to scumhunt then?
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On December 31 2013 20:49 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2013 20:34 Koshi wrote:On December 31 2013 20:18 Grackaroni wrote:
hmmmm. I'm not sure. I do seem to have dug some sort of a whole for myself by not posting. You too see to be making some enemies. Perhaps we should team up. Team Grackoshi Go GRACKOSHHI! Sounds epic. I am planning to pick up my game now, so let's be a well respected Grackoshi team. I thought this game would move way faster and that we would have a team ready to go in 48 hours. Therefore I went a bit chicken without head & fingers crossed and just spammed to take me on the first mission. Sillyness :D. Concern I now have: 1) Corazon never talking directly to me. He mentions Koshi a shitton in his filter, but never redirect his questions to me personally. It's all "Koshi needs to pick up his game" "If Koshi is going to troll" "I will not be considering Koshi his team at all" Which is just strange. I have been reading BttB mafia, Titanic 1 & 2 and he doesn't do that there at all. This game he mentions my playstyle so many times and I don't think there is 1 message directed at me. But because there is no meta to compare it to it is just simply strange and not alignment indicative I guess. I do have some posts that make Cora town though. Those are for later when I make my teams and give overall reads. 2) What do you think of Adam nay voting his own team + his reasoning behind it. I could see a VE or Cora say that because CR and I instantly voted "yay" that they get extra hesitant about adam, hopeless or rayn. But Adam (and rayn as well tbh) should not have this problem that much because they know from themselves that they are town. So then they only need to verify 2 more townies. It speaks in both Adam, rayn their favor that they blame each other for the nayvote though. rayn says he nayvoted because Koshi&CR yayvoted and he became unsure about Adamn. Adam says he nayvoted because Koshi&CR yayvoted and he became unsure about rayn. I think I need to reread it again but atm I am thinking Adam might have been thinking that if he yayvotes with Hopeless and rayn being very townie that he will be seen as the spy in the mission if he decide to fail it. Or he is forced to succeed it but then he might confirm both Hopeless and rayn as very likely town and he might fall out of the boat. Hmm. I don't know yet. Ah yes. the nay vote of Adam. A peculiar event it was. He just seemed oh so confident of his team before people started wondering why the vote was so easily passed. If that vote failed he was definitely taking the blaiM! Hehe. I'm really not sure though. Mafia is hard. If he was town though I think he made the right call. Good play by ADAM! Who you putting on your team this time Koshi/
Also Grack, this does not sound like a policy nay-vote as you earlier on said it was.
You are giving different reasons for your voting behavior.
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On January 03 2014 19:44 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 19:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 03 2014 19:24 Grackaroni wrote:On January 03 2014 19:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Well Mr.Grackaroni, explain this: On December 27 2013 21:48 Grackaroni wrote:
Adam/Hopeless/Rayn sounds pretty good. Nothing here suggests a change in your reads. Grackaroni: Nay I don't think looking for filter consistency is the right way to go about scum hunting in general. If I want my filter to be consistent I can make it consistent. I liked both you/hopeless but not enough to yay vote the first mission. I was going to nay vote any mission the first few days regardless of the team because there was only like 20 pages of thread. Filter consistency is the only way to scumhunt because if your filter is not consistent then you are scum as you change your mind based on nothing - something you don't do as town. What do you suggest is how to scumhunt then? I won't tell you how to scumhunt. There are definitely times when you can catch scum for a weird inconsistency. From my own experience I believe that scum are more concerned with making their filter consistent and that they will always give a reason to explain their actions. I don't think down voting a team that is good for scum after saying a team is good is indicative of scum play; on the contrary, it's a pretty damn good indicator of town. You are arguing that Adam and I are scum with Hopeless and that Adam/I were both against the idea of having 2 scum on our team, yet we both came out pro-hopeless. It's not even that I disagree with your theory because I know that it's wrong. I don't think that it's a sensible belief disregarding my own alignment.
I am saying i am leaning on you and Adam(Coag) being scum because your reasoning for voting behavior and reads do not match what's been happening in thread and what you have said before.
I'll make a more detailed post about this for all the people to see tonight, i gotta go after a while for couple of hours so i don't have time to do it now.
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Actually regarding Adam and Hopeless connection we came to the same conclusion for pretty much the same reasons. It's just that i started with analysing the second mission while you started from the beginning. Easier for me to start from the mission where i actually know from 2 people at least one has to be scum.
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That's not the basis of my read if you have read my posts.
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That is just one point;
If VE's team is all town all scum voted nay, it's pretty clear. Chairman Ray do you agree with this hypothesis?
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On January 03 2014 21:08 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 21:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
That's not the basis of my read if you have read my posts. Well why don't you tell me what is the basis of your read. You found me saying I liked you and hopeless and nay voting later on. The only reasoning I can see besides that is because you think scum would want to spread the blame, which I don't think is even true. I over bus in non-resistance games lol. If I was scum I would just attack my teammates, get myself on the mission and if people accuse me of sabotaging the mission my teammates would have a better chance of getting on the next mission.
Your train of thought regarding the first mission and voting does not make sense. Your thought process does not match your actions. I am making a big post about this when i get back home but i gotta go in ~10min so i really have no time now.
These are my general assumptions regarding the voting:
1) I assume there was at least one scum in Adam's team:
- If one scum -> nay-voters look much better than yay-voters
- If two scum -> scum most likely split their votes on yay/nay
2) VE's team:
- If there is scum in VE's team nay-voters look better
- If VE's team was all town all scum voted nay
3) I assume there is only 1 scum in Koshi's team:
- Either way the yay-votes piled up too easily and noone looks better than anyone else besides Cora.
If someone disagrees with these (1-3) please tell why.
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On January 03 2014 21:14 Grackaroni wrote:
Honestly I am starting to picture a Rayn/hopeless/Adam team right now just from how strange this accusation is from Rayn.
If that was the scumteam that team would have 100% passed when Adam suggested it. That scenario is so interesting i would have pushed it through. lol Grack, that's like the shittiest post in thread.
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Okay i just got back. Lemme put my thoughts on Adam/Coag slot in thread and then we talk Grack. Just gimme a minute.
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Okay so. First of all this is a bit BS towards Coagulation regardless of his alignment because he can't possibly answer this as he can't tell Adam's thought process (and that's why replacements in general are shit in Resistance as the game is not as straightforward as mafia). Anyways, this is why i think Adam/Coag slot is spy:
Whenever you are a leader, regardless of your position in the leader queue the fact is you are supposed to submit an all town team if you are town. Adam suggest a team of himself, me and Hopeless. Therefore he must think me and Hopeless (at the time of suggestion) are town.
Before Adam's own vote he says multiple times he thinks the team is all town because of resistance towards the team and because it seems like the team is going to either pass/fail by small margin.
Ultimately this is why Adam downvotes his own team. My downvote and this is what he gives as reasoning:
On December 29 2013 10:35 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2013 10:23 Hopeless1der wrote:
welll i'll say this in favor of you being town adam: you didnt just lock in your yay vote when there was no substantial reason not to. After all, you proposed your team. If you are having reservations about me or rayn, what might they be? Well, your activity was a little lower than I was hoping. But I guess I shouldn't throw stones in a glass house. Rayns down vote was for a shit reason, but why would he downvote the team if he was scum? That doesn't really make sense. Then there's Koshi, coming back, doing a backflip on his reads and yay voting my team through, when I thought he was scum. Why would he do that if he were scum and this was an all town team like I think? If i'm wrong about him, then I have to be wrong about a few others because things aren't making sense. Chairman Ray gives me pause in that he voted yes, yet has given zero reads on anyone on the team and I don't even see a post saying why he went yes over no. Grack saying my team looked good earlier in the day, then no voting it and declaring he was going to vote no to any team proposed today makes me question anything coming out of him.
He gives the implication about his hesitation about my vote. However my vote can't possibly be alignment indicative because as scum (assuming Adam is town - remember he thinks Hopeless is town) i would have absolutely no reason to downvote the team. The only reason i would downvote the team is what i said, i am town and i think Adam is scum. However from Adam's perspective (if he is town) this does not mean his team is less town.
On December 29 2013 10:47 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2013 10:41 Corazon wrote:On December 29 2013 10:39 Adam4167 wrote:On December 29 2013 10:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 29 2013 09:39 Adam4167 wrote:
Sentinel, if you could change your vote, would you switch it?
Rayn, same question to you No i wouldn't. I don't trust you, especially after your comment on the top of the current page. You don't like the fact that I want to take extra time to make sure I don't fuck this up? Why This ultimately rests in my hands, as I have the swing vote and I want to make sure i'm making the right decision. Why are you only being cautious now as opposed to being cautious when you picked a team? Because I picked my two strongest town reads at the time when I made my team..? Why would I need to be cautious about that? Things have happened since then, and with that new information, I am less sure, as the people voting with me are not the people I expected to be doing so when I made this team.
The bolded part. This does not mean shit. Adam is hesitant because of what other people vote. He does not trust his own reads, while earlier on he said people voting against his team is a tell that the team is all town!! It makes zero sense that he backpedals from yay-voting the team for the same reasons he thoguht the team was town for. It does not matter who votes what at this stage, the thing that should matter is that Adam has a town read on me and Hopeless, we are town, he is town, and therefore the team is all town.
On December 29 2013 10:53 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2013 10:46 Grackaroni wrote:
What do you think is going on with Koshi Rayn? It all made sense for Koshi-scum and Rayn-town, right up until they both voted the complete opposite I expected them to. Now I have no fucking clue.I don't feel confident enough in this to send this team right now. We have 4 more chances after this one, so lets err on the side of caution and use them. Balls in your court, VE.
This is really bad. Look at the argument.
- My vote, as i stated earlier on, is not a scumtell. It makes zero sense for me to downvote the team as scum because i would want a team where there is scum, and i could have easily accomplished it by yay-voting!!
- Koshi's vote can't be alignment indicative because Adam said he does not have a clear read on Koshi. If Adam's null-read votes yay that's not a reason to backpedal from yay-voting his own team, a team he has picked, a team that are his townreads!
TLDR;
Adam's reasoning for nay-voting his own team that consists of his top town reads does not make sense. By his logic there would be no information gathered from voting, because everyone could just say "yeah well let's have more info and more leader before passing a team". That's not how it works, you propose a full town team and that's it, you push it through. If everyone uses this bullshit reasoning on yay/nay-voting teams votes are meaningless and tell nothing about anything. His is using BS reasoning for downvoting his own team, it's that simple.
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Grackaroni, i have a few questions to you:
1) What do you think of my case on Hopeless?
2) What do you think of my case on Adam/Coag?
3) If there was a team suggested that consists of VE's earlier team + Koshi, what would you vote? If "nay", why?
4) Do you think i am scum? If yes, why?
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On January 03 2014 22:38 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 21:17 Koshi wrote:
meh. Don't think rayn would go after Hopeless so hard so fast. Bussing me is an almost guaranteed win for rayn, he looks so town. Good thing you're a spy Koshi <3
You just scumslipped but i am not scum because i am not bussing you. I just figured you out.
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Koshi:
1) What do you think of my case on Adam/Coag?
2) If there was a team suggested that consists of VE's earlier team + rayn, what would you vote? If "nay", why?
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On January 03 2014 22:42 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 22:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 03 2014 22:38 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 03 2014 21:17 Koshi wrote:
meh. Don't think rayn would go after Hopeless so hard so fast. Bussing me is an almost guaranteed win for rayn, he looks so town. Good thing you're a spy Koshi <3 You just scumslipped but i am not scum because i am not bussing you. I just figured you out. I assure you I am not a spy, I'm just blowing holes in poor logic for funsies. Adam/Koshi/CR spyteam
If you are town could you answer my case where i point out what i find to be your poor logic?
Also could you tell why exactly do you think Adam + CR are scum and why Koshi is scum over me?
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On January 03 2014 23:00 Hopeless1der wrote:I legitimately thought koshi was town. He was on the back foot because people (correctly) called him scum, and was hesitant about sending himself. *note my previous concept of leader-always-goes This: Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 07:00 Hopeless1der wrote:
So guys...rayn/cora/hopeless
Who needs convincing? Was largely in response to this (btw dat red stuff doe): Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 05:11 Koshi wrote:
Well if you feel confident about CR scum. I feel confident about Adam/VE
then a Cora/rayn/Hopeless party looks pretty cool.
I think it is better than me in case one rayn/Hopeless is scum. better for me at least.
Grack townish but didn't do enough to also take on a Mission tbh. The things I like are his early town read for Hopeless and his posts concerning the first team. Like saying he would nayvote regardless the first team was and saying that the team already passed while a couple people still had to vote. Kinda makes him look like he is in the dark. I had not changed my mind, I was feeling out whether people would approve a team of you-me-cora since the existing team was on the cusp of being passed, and we needed to find another townie. Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 05:15 Koshi wrote:
Hmm. Looks like rayn/Hopeless/Koshi has already passed with 5 votes if we got Sentinel vote of approval.
On your reasoning for Cora, the fact that his behavior, posting etc, especially in regards to him banging the Hopeless=scum drum make me read him as town. Explaining this read is insulting to Cora and I don't want to incite any further flaming, so here's hoping that would suffice as an explanation. I concluded koshi is the spy because you are not the spy, I am not the spy and the mission failed. Lets suppose I am the spy, there's no chance I can paint you red. I HAVE to go for Koshi here as either alignment.
This does not exactly prove you are town as like you said you "had to go against Koshi" as either alignment. Also the first part, i don't understand the reasoning behind your quote you brought up. Koshi was the leader, he decided the team, why are you trying to convince other people about some other team (me/you/Cora)? You were supposed to convince Koshi to suggest a team, not everyone else.
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You also thought Koshi was town, so what the fuck?
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Like you say you thought Koshi is town and you thought i was town, yet you tried to convince people into picking another team than me/you/Koshi. How does that make sense?
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Grackaroni why did you pick me into your team? I thought you think i am mafia.
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On January 04 2014 10:09 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 10:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Grackaroni why did you pick me into your team? I thought you think i am mafia. I was really annoyed with your accusation at the time, but you were persistent with it. I feel better about sending you than sending Koshi.
Hmm.. Why does it have to be me or Koshi over other people?
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EPT
