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On December 03 2013 12:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
LSB
For the love of all that is town
Stop. Fucking. Blue. Hunting
Seriously? You seriously think the best way to make sure said KP isn't being thrown around is to let roles have free will over what to do? Last thing we need is a Heimerdinger getting two turrets out, or an Urgot making a focus fire on one champion an instakill.
I have said time and time again that KP related roles should be claimed so they can be held accountable should they participate in suspicious actions. Okay, if you are vet/dt/medic you don't need to claim if you do not, but awnser this. Why shouldn't Vanilla Town Claim who they tried to pick or KP related roles claim the same?
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On December 03 2013 12:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:44 OdinOfPergo wrote:
lol Oats, how does that make sense? You saying not reading the thread, fabricating terrible cases, and then just asking blant obv town questions and not following up with it makes sense? Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Odin if kushmasta has even one quote from another player in his posts he is town.
If he is scum he does not go into any filter because he can't even force himself to do so. He just says "permission to bus me granted, do it!".
I don't think he is scum here.
Yeah I had to dig deep for examples but I don't like this explanation
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884&user=Kushm4sta is a filter from a previous mafia game.
Of course I haven't played with him at all, but I just wanted to check that out
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On December 03 2013 12:54 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:51 LSB wrote:On December 03 2013 12:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
LSB
For the love of all that is town
Stop. Fucking. Blue. Hunting Seriously? You seriously think the best way to make sure said KP isn't being thrown around is to let roles have free will over what to do? Last thing we need is a Heimerdinger getting two turrets out, or an Urgot making a focus fire on one champion an instakill. I have said time and time again that KP related roles should be claimed so they can be held accountable should they participate in suspicious actions. Okay, if you are vet/dt/medic you don't need to claim if you do not, but awnser this. Why shouldn't Vanilla Town Claim who they tried to pick or KP related roles claim the same? so how does this help town? Lets say everyone but vet/dt/medic's claim and there is suddenly huge kp somewhere and stuff. How do you know scum didnt fakeclaim something, YOU DONT KNOW JACK SHIT. And all it does is that it outs our blues so easy shots for scum.
On December 03 2013 09:05 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 08:48 sandroba wrote:
@LSB
MAN. You get no notifications this game. What happens is people will be informed they received X amounts of dmg and the results of their actions. Half the abilities of the heroes are unknown information. So you can't hold anyone accountable for anything. Please. Read the rules and think about your plan first. I have read the rules, in fact I think you should go over the rules and abilities too as well as think for a bit before critiquing a plan. What mass claims seeks to accomplish is twofold. 1) Firstly to confirm claims and locations of dangerous roles. For example my role can potentially be dangerous if I abuse it too much. A massclaim allows me to verify that I hold onto the role. We can verify this threefold. First of all we can look at the position on the list, that is a piece of public information. Second of all we can compare how much damage people took. For example if I lied about my damage and instead say I did 800 damage each, people would easily be able to tell. Tonight when I verify my role people will be able to verify how much damage I do also. Thirdly there are tracker roles so we can verify claims that way 2) To check the abilities of said dangerous roles and make sure they are not abused. The classic example is my role. If I use it only to verify the fact that I have the role, it is only a few instance of 50 damage. However if I did not claim and just spent my time running around laughing like an idiot, I could easily do 250 damage a night. We are significantly checking mafia KP. Why we cannot accomplish these two objectives without a mass claim. This is because there are roles that augment anothers power. My role is very meaningless by itself. But if you add on abilities that allow me to do more damage than usual, suddenly my damage is multiplied by a ton. Without a mass role claim mafia can easily hide a huge amount of damage through disruptive roles and agumenting them confusing the town. We need to know what we are facing, and who is controlling what to account for that. Likewise without a role claim people could use their abilities with no fear, allowing mafia to have unchecked power. There is a huge accusation on Kurumi atm. What if Kurumi did not claim at all? and instead sat alone at night killing Koshi? This would be a serious problem and we would have no idea who was doing so much damage to an important role.
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On December 03 2013 13:21 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 13:04 LSB wrote:On December 03 2013 12:54 Oatsmaster wrote:On December 03 2013 12:51 LSB wrote:On December 03 2013 12:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
LSB
For the love of all that is town
Stop. Fucking. Blue. Hunting Seriously? You seriously think the best way to make sure said KP isn't being thrown around is to let roles have free will over what to do? Last thing we need is a Heimerdinger getting two turrets out, or an Urgot making a focus fire on one champion an instakill. I have said time and time again that KP related roles should be claimed so they can be held accountable should they participate in suspicious actions. Okay, if you are vet/dt/medic you don't need to claim if you do not, but awnser this. Why shouldn't Vanilla Town Claim who they tried to pick or KP related roles claim the same? so how does this help town? Lets say everyone but vet/dt/medic's claim and there is suddenly huge kp somewhere and stuff. How do you know scum didnt fakeclaim something, YOU DONT KNOW JACK SHIT. And all it does is that it outs our blues so easy shots for scum. On December 03 2013 09:05 LSB wrote:On December 03 2013 08:48 sandroba wrote:
@LSB
MAN. You get no notifications this game. What happens is people will be informed they received X amounts of dmg and the results of their actions. Half the abilities of the heroes are unknown information. So you can't hold anyone accountable for anything. Please. Read the rules and think about your plan first. I have read the rules, in fact I think you should go over the rules and abilities too as well as think for a bit before critiquing a plan. What mass claims seeks to accomplish is twofold. 1) Firstly to confirm claims and locations of dangerous roles. For example my role can potentially be dangerous if I abuse it too much. A massclaim allows me to verify that I hold onto the role. We can verify this threefold. First of all we can look at the position on the list, that is a piece of public information. Second of all we can compare how much damage people took. For example if I lied about my damage and instead say I did 800 damage each, people would easily be able to tell. Tonight when I verify my role people will be able to verify how much damage I do also. Thirdly there are tracker roles so we can verify claims that way 2) To check the abilities of said dangerous roles and make sure they are not abused. The classic example is my role. If I use it only to verify the fact that I have the role, it is only a few instance of 50 damage. However if I did not claim and just spent my time running around laughing like an idiot, I could easily do 250 damage a night. We are significantly checking mafia KP. Why we cannot accomplish these two objectives without a mass claim. This is because there are roles that augment anothers power. My role is very meaningless by itself. But if you add on abilities that allow me to do more damage than usual, suddenly my damage is multiplied by a ton. Without a mass role claim mafia can easily hide a huge amount of damage through disruptive roles and agumenting them confusing the town. We need to know what we are facing, and who is controlling what to account for that. Likewise without a role claim people could use their abilities with no fear, allowing mafia to have unchecked power. There is a huge accusation on Kurumi atm. What if Kurumi did not claim at all? and instead sat alone at night killing Koshi? This would be a serious problem and we would have no idea who was doing so much damage to an important role. None of this stops mafia from fakeclaiming. There are too many roles that fuck with people and list position.
I agree if not every townie with an ability to mess with position reveals their actions we would not be able to replicate what happens. This is why we need a mass roleclaim, this way we can verify any mafia fakeclaims as see what exactly happens at night. In addition without a mass claim trackers would be an almost useless role because what they see could be very well meaningless.
Fakeclaims can be exposed, yes it takes some work, but finding contradictory actions are an easy way to pin down a mafia.
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Your hourly reminder that no one has roleclaimed since the last time I posted the list. Many of you have claimed VT, and you have incredibly important information
On December 03 2013 20:58 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Here is the deal with LSB:
I think he was scum (or was he SK - anyways not town) in another PYP game where he made the same plan. While the plan is pro-town at some point it became very clear people will not follow it. He continued on hiding behind just stubbornly yelling "yo guys you need to claim" and did nothing else. Good place for scum to hide when they know the plan is not gonna work out anyways, no need to do any actual scumhunting.
Smells like same shit here. however if this is true, it's a great catch. I need to read this for myself.
It's not true, here are links
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176529 - SK
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141431 - Traitor
On December 03 2013 17:51 gtrsrs wrote:
lead me to really question: "seriously, why do i have such a shit pick?" i picked [7],[11]. based on my understanding of how the pick works, here's what should have happened. 3 of us claimed 7, so we were defaulted to our second picks. my second pick was 11. the only other person with an 11 pick was JonnyLaw. but JonnyLaw's first pick was 14. he couldn't be above me in the pick order with these picks. i would have defaulted to 11 before he did. additionally, no one above him has a 14 pick, so he should have been 14, not even defaulting to his second pick
therefore i can only conclude that (presuming everyone else was telling the truth) JonnyLaw is lying about his number picks. no need to lie about that. he's scum.
on that note, i do not necessarily believe that he picked kha'zix. if he did not pick kha'zix, then the person who did is also scum. 2 down. korea stands no chance
##Vote: JonnyLaw
note: sandroba or justanothertownie outing their pick numbers could save JonnyLaw
also if it might help, i'm extremely knowledgeable about league of legends and i can help answer any questions for non-league players, especially those questions that might pertain to possible second abilities (though at this time, i don't see that as necessary)
The number picks are correct, the second pick is a tiebreaker between people who have the same first pick (IE the three people with 7)
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I don't understand this whole I'm a village idiot thingy, I'm just going to flat out deny it, and say that if there is a village idiot mechanic it probably should have been mentioned in the OP.
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I'm all for lynching bum.
1) Policy lynch, violation of own plan. This is important because town is less organized than anti town roles, and in order to make sure plans go through we need to follow our own plans. There is a tremendous advantage to anti-town roles who put forth a plan and then violate it to give themselves a huge advantage. If you don't buy it from a policy lynch standpoint, I want you to look at his tone after being confronted with the fact that he didn't pick his role
On December 03 2013 10:48 bumatlarge wrote:
I never wanted tryndamere, and I didn't want another town to take it. Figured that would be the best way, and town would understand. Kinda awkward now that LSB has it, but it's not scummy for either of us I think, especially since he claimed it.
In essence he puts very little value in what he was trying to lead the town into doing. This should be a MAJOR warning flag. He was intentionally misleading the town in one of the most crucial phases of the game.
In addition he admits that if I were not to claim, he would just keep on misleading the town.
On December 03 2013 12:31 bumatlarge wrote:
To be fair, I did see it was a guideline, in that people could use it to see what was going to be picked. In that aspect, no one would really have to worry about tryndamere, because I would know people would have it above me, and that people wouldn't get it below me. If you didn't take it, no one would know I didn't have it, and I would simply "never use it". If push came to shove, I would claim I didn't have it if it became beneficial to use it. Any rolechecks would reveal I'm not hiding any scum oriented role.
2. Tunneling of Jcarl. Post for reference http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436086¤tpage=58#1155
The first reason why I considered this a tunneling is due to the fact that it is just one giant filter read and a response to every single post he has written. This is usually a very bad idea because it is a stretch to assume that every single (non spam) post by a player should have some sort of scum tell. This is indicative of either one of two things A) You are focusing too hard and are begining to fabricate any sort of connections. B) You are fabricating connections in the first place because you are mafia.
In addition, the case that bum provides is not grounded in any serious substantial tells. Compare this to his performance as town in sleeper cell mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303792&user=bumatlarge. Although misguided, his reasoning is grounded in a general theme around radified. Rather than a laundry list of behavioral traits and summing them up as "This person cannot be town".
3. Wishy washy about me. Although it'd be fair to say that I am not the best judge of this. But Bum has been acting pretty confused about what to do with me. I can't figure out if he wants to lynch me or not. It seems like he is afraid of when I flip green if I do get lynched and wants to make sure he doesn't suffer any backlash.
SIDE NOTE: Should we lynch bum I won't use my role and just sit still.
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On December 04 2013 02:39 justanothertownie wrote:
Also question for rayn and marv (anybody else may answer aswell but I want those opinions especially): are there any kind of roles that should definitely claim in your opinion?
I'm not really setup-man so I don't have any particular opinion other than what I've already stated - claimed VTs should claim what they tried to choose originally.
There are probably ones that I missed but this includes
Rean
Mocsta
OdinofPergo
I'm sure various claiming will be useful at some point but I don't think that point is now.[/QUOTE]
OOP claimed Karma I think. We are also waiting on if Geript will confirm himself as a VT or if he changed what he was going to pick.
BC promised to claim before the night is over, however he did get replaced.
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I'll just post it again to clear up confusion
If you are vanilla town it is important for you to reveal what role you tried to take
If you can deal damage it is important for you to reveal what role you tried to take
If you are DT/Medic/Tracker it is highly suggested, but I will forgive you if you don't, to reveal what role you take
We need to know if Janna, Heimerdinger, Karthus and other roles that have the ability to increase mafia KP are in the game.
Koshi [2][1] - Viktor
Kurumi [4][6] - Warwick
VisceraEyes [5][4] - Lux
jcarlsoniv [9][3] - Soft Blue claim, cannot deal damage
Mig [12][1]
JonnyLaw [14][11]
Risen [15][15] - Karma
StorrZerg [23][23]
geript [24][24] Warwick? -> VT?
austinmcc [6][3]
Meapak_Ziphh [6][14]
Sandroba - Fiora
Kenpachi[8][15] - Blue Claim
Rean [16][2] Lux-> VT
bumatlarge [16][12] -> Soft Blue Claim
Onegu [17][5] Soft Blue Claim, probably a power role. Claim was done by BC
justanothertownie
marvellosity [7][2] - Blue Claim
gtrsrs [7][11] Kha'Zix -> VT
OdinOfPergo [7][16] Karma -> VT
Mocsta [1][5] ? ->VT
supersoft [1][30]
Oatsmaster [1][1] Cho'Gath ->VT
raynpelikoneet [1][1] - Shen
kushm4sta
ticklishmusic Taric
Roffles
Coagulation
jaybrundage [Tabbz] Ezreal?
LSB -> Tryndamere
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On December 04 2013 03:52 bumatlarge wrote:
Alright, if I come back at ETA@2 hours from deadline, and I'm set to be lynched, I'll make one post of all my reads.
And why not just do that now?
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So much WIFOM from Bum/VE
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I picked my role to check to see if it was taken. It was on my list of dangerous roles and given I had last pick, my chance of getting a role I wanted was very low, so I spent my pick trying to figure out if the role had been taken.
What I plan on doing with Tyr- There will be three actions I will restrict myself to this game
1) Verify my role claim, a one time action in which I will attempt to verify that I have this role. I will announce my use of this action well before the night post
2) Move one space to damage someone I believe is mafia. I will not be using this ability night 1 atm, I will announce my usel of this action well before the night post.
3) Do nothing.
What I plan on doing tonight
If Bum is lynched - I will do nothing
If Bum is not Lynched - I will verify my role claim by moving up three spaces.
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On December 04 2013 05:43 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Why do you feel the need to confirm that you are tryndamere, even if it causes collateral damage? On December 03 2013 12:04 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:01 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
LSB I will take you using your role tonight as a scum claim. Yo, there have been multiple people questioning whether or not I'm actually Tyr and multiple people questioned whether even if I am Tyr if my self reported damage is correct. Sitting on my role is a horrible horrible idea and the quickest way to get lynched day 2. Plus I want to kill Bum. Actually that's most of the reason
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On December 04 2013 05:50 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:41 LSB wrote:
I picked my role to check to see if it was taken. It was on my list of dangerous roles and given I had last pick, my chance of getting a role I wanted was very low, so I spent my pick trying to figure out if the role had been taken.
What I plan on doing with Tyr- There will be three actions I will restrict myself to this game
1) Verify my role claim, a one time action in which I will attempt to verify that I have this role. I will announce my use of this action well before the night post
2) Move one space to damage someone I believe is mafia. I will not be using this ability night 1 atm, I will announce my usel of this action well before the night post.
3) Do nothing.
What I plan on doing tonight
If Bum is lynched - I will do nothing
If Bum is not Lynched - I will verify my role claim by moving up three spaces. So you didn't trust bum to take it - yet you attack him solely for that reason later. Did you think bum was scum before you picked? Tell me more about how scum has to think bum will follow through with his plan sandro.
I didn't know Bum was going to pick it before BC pointed it out.
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On December 04 2013 05:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:Please explain why you think holding your role is the reason you're going to get lynched day 2? Because, honestly, your entire play this game except for holding your role is the reason you're nearing the chopping block. And you state: Bum is set to be lynched at this point. Your main reason for wanting to use your role is gone.
On December 04 2013 05:41 LSB wrote:
What I plan on doing tonight
If Bum is lynched - I will do nothing
If Bum is not Lynched - I will verify my role claim by moving up three spaces.
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On December 04 2013 05:54 justanothertownie wrote:
Why did you pick Tryndamere of all those roles to verify its existence in the game LSB? Why did you not choose a role that has at least a tiny bit of townie possibilities to it?
On December 02 2013 09:07 LSB wrote:
Okay here is my DANGER DANGER list of roles who I want public. Should mafia get their hands on them and use them to their own devices it is basically gg. Viktor, Heimerdinger, Tryndamere, Janna, Kha'Zix
Now there is no way we would be able to tell who is who unless we have a mass claim. It's already late enough that we don't have a picking planed up. I would advice everyone to try to go for either the roles I listed or the roles BC listed.
Keep in mind, mafia did ban out all of the DT roles, so they probably have no problems with a mass claim. However, it is much better to have control and an idea of what these power roles are doing, rather than let mafia use them on their own.
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On December 04 2013 05:59 justanothertownie wrote:
Yep, basically every other role in this list could be used in a townie fashion. Why not one of them?
I don't think you understand what I posted. I am more interested in finding out the existence (and if they do the location) of the power roles and denial of their abilities to maifa. As last pick I understand the chances of me getting a role is very little, so it is far more important for me to use my pick as a way to verify the existence of a role rather than attempting to actually get a role. As last pick my optimal play is to pick a random role and that fell on tyr.
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On December 04 2013 06:01 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:54 LSB wrote:On December 04 2013 05:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:Please explain why you think holding your role is the reason you're going to get lynched day 2? Because, honestly, your entire play this game except for holding your role is the reason you're nearing the chopping block. And you state: Plus I want to kill Bum. Actually that's most of the reason Bum is set to be lynched at this point. Your main reason for wanting to use your role is gone. On December 04 2013 05:41 LSB wrote:
What I plan on doing tonight
If Bum is lynched - I will do nothing
If Bum is not Lynched - I will verify my role claim by moving up three spaces. You realize that if you use your role, you will be on block for a policy lynching, right? Like, you're going to incur the very thing you seem to be afraid of if you don't use it.
I don't understand what you are trying to imply. Are you just simply trying to discourage me from using my role should Bum not get lynched? Or are you trying to make a blanket statement saying I should never use my role? Or are you criticizing my choice of night action?
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On December 04 2013 06:19 Mig wrote:
Rean looks pretty terrible. Comes in 4 minutes after marv calls him out to respond, so seems to be actively reading the thread but posts nothing at all besides yelling at Roffles for being mean.
Rean what do you think about the current lynch candidates? Who do you plan on voting for?
Also where is supersoft. I would have expected him to be around by now and commenting on current events. His only case this game has been against LSB who he called scum but then he proceeded to say he isn't sure if he should be lynched today in the same post? He also said he was going to go do some meta research on him, did you ever do any of that super?
I really don't like using timing for scumtells, though I do agree Rean has been very inactive
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EPT
