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hi mocsta, i saw you sent me some discussion prompters last night. i promise i'll get to them. but first, i wanted to address this:
On November 24 2013 16:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 16:05 sciberbia wrote:@Mocsta So here I am most definitely the best lynch today: + Show Spoiler +On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response. But whatevers, I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon. Things I remember from Scibs - Terrible case on Corazon - Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle - Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today. Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them. ##Unvote##Vote: SciberbiaIf someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead. until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today. And here 4 hours later I'm not even in your top 4. + Show Spoiler +On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.
jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote
##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks
Nobody "did a filter dive while you were gone" and proved I was town, so what's the reasoning for this? nothing. you constantly make me paranoid with absense. so I make a point against you and you alleviate that paranoia. painful but true. gonna be out for 3 to 4 hrs now. if you want anything else, lemme k ow
can you please expand on what specifically alleviated your concerns on sciberia?
you say that it's his absence that made you paranoid. but in your actual vote, you make no mention that his absence is a concern:+ Show Spoiler + On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response. But whatevers, I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon. Things I remember from Scibs - Terrible case on Corazon - Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle - Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today. Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them. ##Unvote##Vote: SciberbiaIf someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead. until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today.
furthermore, you said this:
On November 24 2013 14:45 Mocsta wrote:
If anything
Bereft pointer between the two games where I am confirmed scum; indicates I am town this game.
(1)
When referring to onegu, i call him tunneled and then imemdiately ask him questions to try and probe his alignment.
(2)
When referring to Artanis, I call him tunnel, discredit him and then suggest him to go look for scum elsewhere.
Two extremely different approaches to the same issue (someone tunneling me as scum). The difference in approach is due to motive.
In (2) I just want to get the heat off me. In (1) I am actually trying to figure out if this guy is sincere in his tunnel to justify lack of contribution.
is this not an attempt at discrediting my opinion?
On November 24 2013 13:09 Mocsta wrote:
really bereft??
seriously, post game I would love to know what is so scummy about my play.
regardless of how I play scum personally, I don't even see how what I'm pushing is scummy?
I get poor play - and I'm extremely time poor this weekend. maybe ibshouldnt try to be a thread driver, but I see no one else taking ownership to move the thread forward
why does it take until a vote is thrown for people to come out of the woodworks.
its ok. I don't think u r scum though. when unconfident its normal to become paranoid.
ciao
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On November 21 2013 22:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:
The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft}
The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia}
The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}
<3 you man. Pretty much my reads exactly. Though I'd probably move Scib and Onegu up to the green group. Rayn has fallen way down for me from his early game. If I was gonna remove anyone from the reds, Rayne would probably take their place. The only thing troubling, and I think you touched on this earlier, I'm not sure if I'm crazy about a Rean/Cora scumteam. Would need to reread a bunch but I think that can be worried about after the flip.
jjd has been pushing cora/rean as his two leads a, and is now doubting their coexidtance.
I find this odd.
here he assets rayn has fallen to a scum read. which implies he had a preexisting town read. I don't think the phrasing allows for null.
On November 22 2013 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I don't like anty lynch aside from Rayn or Rean here. Rayn made his move and got all the votes off Rean. If we switch to someone else, we're letting him dictate the vote. If we move off Rayne, they need to go back to Rean.
this suggests he thought rayn was trying to save reany. hence the scum read on both.
I don't mind this as a town tell because at the time I had considered the same theory.
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On November 24 2013 23:57 Bereft wrote:hi mocsta, i saw you sent me some discussion prompters last night. i promise i'll get to them. but first, i wanted to address this: Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 16:09 Mocsta wrote:On November 24 2013 16:05 sciberbia wrote:@Mocsta So here I am most definitely the best lynch today: + Show Spoiler +On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response. But whatevers, I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon. Things I remember from Scibs - Terrible case on Corazon - Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle - Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today. Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them. ##Unvote##Vote: SciberbiaIf someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead. until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today. And here 4 hours later I'm not even in your top 4. + Show Spoiler +On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.
jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote
##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks
Nobody "did a filter dive while you were gone" and proved I was town, so what's the reasoning for this? nothing. you constantly make me paranoid with absense. so I make a point against you and you alleviate that paranoia. painful but true. gonna be out for 3 to 4 hrs now. if you want anything else, lemme k ow can you please expand on what specifically alleviated your concerns on sciberia? you say that it's his absence that made you paranoid. but in your actual vote, you make no mention that his absence is a concern: + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response. But whatevers, I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon. Things I remember from Scibs - Terrible case on Corazon - Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle - Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today. Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them. ##Unvote##Vote: SciberbiaIf someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead. until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today. furthermore, you said this: Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 14:45 Mocsta wrote:
If anything
Bereft pointer between the two games where I am confirmed scum; indicates I am town this game.
(1)
When referring to onegu, i call him tunneled and then imemdiately ask him questions to try and probe his alignment.
(2)
When referring to Artanis, I call him tunnel, discredit him and then suggest him to go look for scum elsewhere.
Two extremely different approaches to the same issue (someone tunneling me as scum). The difference in approach is due to motive.
In (2) I just want to get the heat off me. In (1) I am actually trying to figure out if this guy is sincere in his tunnel to justify lack of contribution. is this not an attempt at discrediting my opinion? Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 13:09 Mocsta wrote:
really bereft??
seriously, post game I would love to know what is so scummy about my play.
regardless of how I play scum personally, I don't even see how what I'm pushing is scummy?
I get poor play - and I'm extremely time poor this weekend. maybe ibshouldnt try to be a thread driver, but I see no one else taking ownership to move the thread forward
why does it take until a vote is thrown for people to come out of the woodworks.
its ok. I don't think u r scum though. when unconfident its normal to become paranoid.
ciao 2.
no thats not a discredit. thats me stating I find you to be not confident in tpyour reads.
discredit would be to call you a noon and insinuate younpack scum hunting capability.
my point was, when uncertain its easy to jump over anything that doesn't agree with your opinion.,,, notice I have done that a lot this cycle. hence, I think you are unconfident town, rather than scum taking an opportune moment to discredit me
1. I can't really explain it. hes sitting in this awkward zone for me where he seems to care about the lynch. but is inactive enough not to have thread presence to campaign.
I.e, ideal lblending spot for scum,
if there is active svum in this game. by virtue of activity it would be sciberbisa.can cross that bridge when one scum is left thoguh
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i can understand that, but how does that go from BEST LYNCH CANDIDATE, to at least your 5th or lower lynch choice?
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On November 22 2013 22:23 JarJarDrinks wrote:
K, not gonna apologize about the flip. I'm sure I'll have plenty say to Rayn post-game. Escpecially if Rean really is scum (which I still think).
Gonna reread Onegu but I haven't thought he was scum @ all this game so I doubt that's gonna change. Not crazy about Holyflare so gonna look close @ him.
Also gonna look into Rayns other scumreads though I don't know how much stock I can put into them because of how wrong he was about me. But I don't feel like he could really go 0 for 3 in his reads so if I had to choose 1 scum between Moc and Bereft, right now I'm gonna say it's Moc. But this is before my reread.
I don't mind jjd interactions with rayn once he was a candidate.
they read as genuinely hard pressed that rayn hard divertedbthe dean lynch.
that makes me lean town on jjd regardless of his presence 2hrs from lynch,
I find it odd that jdd throws out the second part suggesting rayn must have had at least 1 read right. I don't get the motive for this.
as an aside, jjd filter reminded me of jampidampi not wanting to vote rayn stating he did this in nuclear Mafia.
this is quite a composed stance yto take, akin to deciding that corazin was early tuenneled prior.
I'm actually not wanting to lynch jjd based on his consistency, I'm really feeling a chezinu lynch.
either away. I'm going to bed, and will be around 4 hrs from lynch.
cpi know I posted butt loads and it wasn't t ideal,
but can you please all look into jampidampi?
p?s? onrgu, I'm still waiting for that case,
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On November 25 2013 00:16 Bereft wrote:
i can understand that, but how does that go from BEST LYNCH CANDIDATE, to at least your 5th or lower lynch choice?
I think I said at that point in time.
that meant literally for me at that snap shot I liked him the most. its more a sighn of my uncertainty than anything else.
my uncertainty is from lack of time to mature thoughts.. and lack of thread development by others to progress my thoughts..hence back at square one
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uugghhhh
reading jjd night 1 hes back to null
I don't get the direction hes heading in to scum hunt.
will think this over sleep.
sorry again for in flux of posts. I know its annoying
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Ok my internet has been out all day and is just now back on and it goes in and out.
My mocsta Case. I have already said my piece on his post restriction and alot on his early day one play so I am going to continue from there on out.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 02:08 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
You just played with me as scum.
Please tell Onegu he is stupid, otherwise I vote you !!! muahahahah QUOTE] On November 21 2013 02:44 Mocsta wrote:Interesting tidbit to shit-stir in 3 newbies vonthin was town.... suddenly replaces out with no posts 
These are just a few of mocstas scum hunting, yes this is null but there are many more I just keep getting the feeling that he is feigning alot of his reads and making posts like this to up his post count and look active.
QUOTE]On November 21 2013 01:52 Mocsta wrote:
My mason (thrawn)
Do you get the impression onegu is just trying to shit the thread?
or am i taking this too personal?[/QUOTE]
We also keep getting post like this all through the game, mocsta really like trying to make friends with thrawn, seems really fake way to buddy buddy someone who is town and who I consider to be one of the the stronger players in the game.
On November 21 2013 00:35 Mocsta wrote:
Jampi, I like that post.
Also just wanted to say this is one of the best Day1 town atmospheres I have seen in regarding to getting straight into analysis/sharing reads.
Keep this up and a scum day1 lynch won't be too beyond us !
/thread captain (yes thats a dig @ Onegu)
I also want to point out this post and a few more that follow it or come right before this post, this is important because this is one of the main reasons why he was fine to policy lynch rayn. Even in this post we have a good town atmosphere but he takes a dig at me WTF. If the atmosphere is so go why does he need to take a dig at me it just doesn't make sense, Im not the type of person to take the bait but if I was he could then say he was ok to policy lynch me because I attacked him. Here are a few posts right around this post also only from mocsta, not to mention corazon.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.
Important things for everyone to know:
As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation
- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.
The others no idea. On November 21 2013 01:22 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:19 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 21 2013 01:10 Mocsta wrote:On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town. Fair call. It was an interpretation from JJD that I did not think was absurd. A better example of what I am referring to is the jampidampi post sandwiched between us. You mean the post where Jampi takes only two of my posts and tries to base my whole opinion on sciberia around them? Those posts were within my first 3-4 posts on the thread. I don't know where he is going with that. Matey, Keep talking to me like a douche and I can give it back to you equally.
Please, I dropped my vote off you yonks ago; I am trying to work together here. JJD = JarJarDrinks His post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=13#249Interprets your posts as calling sciberbia "bad town" and then progressing to "scum". Again, I think JJD interpretation is a fair call, so I would like to know the triggers between the accusations. On November 21 2013 02:08 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
You just played with me as scum.
Please tell Onegu he is stupid, otherwise I vote you !!! muahahahah On November 21 2013 03:59 Mocsta wrote:Im flipped dipshit.
But this all is a great town atmosphere and this is just from mocsta himself. And look how he keeps taking shots at me. Almost same with cora later but I will get to him in a bit in my next case.
Now Im going to get to the meat and potatoes of why mocsta is scum.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=8#159
Ok I want you to open up the spoiled part, and look at his reads. I know bear with me and do it. He has Sciberia and Cora as scum, because of their interactions with each other, and because of scum slips keep this scum slips in mind it comes up much later. In this post he also has bereft as scum for trying to break the town circle. Also he multiple times gives Aqua a town read and Rean a town read.
On November 20 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote:Post 13Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Moc
First of all, you skipped 11. Duly Noted - hence 12b prior Show nested quote +Second of all, are you trying to say that sciberia and I would be shit-flinging at each other in order to...bus each other? Gain town cred for after the lynch? I don't understand why you are trying to ship sciberia and I together. (1) I am not trying to say anything. I said exactly what I wanted to say. (2) This is a very scummy response. You do not actually retort anything I said; instead you try to brush it off by insinuating it is stupid/incorrect. Guess whatI am not going to take that leap of faith, and I won't let the thread take that leap either. Show nested quote +If you didn't take a look at pregame, I made a bunch of comments about how towns self-destruct. As scum, I would let you guys shit-fight amongst each other and pick and choose my votes. Everyone has an ideal way they think they would ply their trade; yet, when push comes to shove so many things do not come to bear. Translation:I don't really care what you think you would do pre-game BEFORE receiving a role PM. What I care about is how you have played this game since AFTER receiving a role PM
Now he is asked if he thinks Cora and Scib are bussing each other. Look at his very evasive answer. Im not saying anything, I said exactly what I meant to say. He never answers the question just gives a glib answer for it.
QUOTE]On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
Post 14
@Thrawn:
What do you think of Rean response.
I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that.
I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is.
Hence, what is the point of the comment?
In short I see 3 outcomes of his post
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
Look, I *could* see a town make this post, but I don't like how it talks about the "core" issues yet simultaneously avoids talking about the "core" issues??
Catch my drift?
P.S. Fuck da POLICE[/QUOTE]
QUOTE]On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
Post 14
@Thrawn:
What do you think of Rean response.
I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that.
I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is.
Hence, what is the point of the comment?
In short I see 3 outcomes of his post
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
Look, I *could* see a town make this post, but I don't like how it talks about the "core" issues yet simultaneously avoids talking about the "core" issues??
Catch my drift?
P.S. Fuck da POLICE[/QUOTE]
Now somehow he is tunneled on Rean after giving him a town read 3 posts ago.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=10#189
Now he magically does a reread and his reads flip all which way. Cora becomes town for his interactions with Aqua/rean
Sciberia becomes null, for consistency
And Aqua becomes scum.
Now yes people are allowed to change their reads that is fine, but as you will see mocsta does it often and with little reason or no reason.
On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. This post is obviously fake. This is the first time Aquanim commits to a scum read, and the way he does it does not look natural. He cites Corazon's case as being "sketchy at best" when earlier he gave Corazon a null read for it, because he could see how town Corazon could make the case. Seeing how a town C can make a case and calling him null does not match up with aquanim thinking the case was "sketchy at best." This means that this reason for thinking rean is scum is completely made up. After that point Aquanim talks about rean's play as a whole but I think his summary applies more to himself than it does to Rean. On top of that his allegations are false... Rean has made posts where he appears to be trying to discern alignments. Go find them, it's easy. It took me about 2 seconds after opening his filter. If it took me 2 seconds to reach the opposite conclusion Aquanim did.... something's not right. I always thought Corazon's case on sciberbia was bad. That's not inconsistent with my opinion that Corazon could be town having made that case. There were two possibilities: - Corazon was town and honestly mistaken - Corazon was making a case to generate discussion and wasn't particularly concerned with its quality. Sure, Rean asked me for a scum read. That's the easiest and least insightful question you can ask, scum can do that without any effort at all. I don't see any indications that Rean is putting actual effort into his scum hunting. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. In this post he is acknowledging that everything I said about him was correct. He's not scumhunting, etc. His excuse for this is that he's concerned that people might just come in and sheep the Corazon lynch? This is a very weak excuse for not being suspicious of anything and not trying to scumhunt. If he didn't want the thread to only talk about Corazon he could have just as easily found something else to talk about. His case and vote for Rean does not count as him trying to do this because Rean nearly forced him into it. He says he voted Rean to open a second wagon. So what does that mean? He wasn't actually that suspicious of Rean and he truly isn't suspicious of anything? I'm not buying it. Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned. Everything you said about my play was more or less accurate, why should I try and deny that? Corazon and Sciberia's little dust-up was pretty much the only thing that had happened so far in the game, so I asked some other random questions. Mocsta answered questions enthusiastically and more-or-less logically, which gives me a town read on him; Rean answered questions with mostly useless one-liners, which gives me a scum read on him. I consider my time well spent. I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon. I'm not suspicious of your motives because you're obvtown. I'm not annoyed at you because you're not ridiculously misrepresenting my play (which would be bad play), you're just wrong about my alignment.
Here he says Cora's case on Sciberia was bad, but he is town for it. Later he will say the exact opposite for voting Cora. And Rean is scummy for answering his questions but not giving good answers that weren't more than one or two lines. Thrawn is Obv Town
On November 20 2013 17:21 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned. Quote of the day. + Show Spoiler +Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive I gotta get some credit mason man Choo-Choo !!
Votes Aqua for Thrawns reason. Sure he gave his own reasons on why Aqua is scum go read them I quoted them, tell me if you think they are legit reasons or not.
On November 20 2013 17:25 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:17 Mocsta wrote:
Regarding Corazon: I find it odd you think that is damning . Unless both are scum, I find that action to be indicative of town.
You do not appear to think Sciberbia is scum; which perplexes me why you would think Corazon is thus, scum.
Okay, let me rephrase that. I don't see any town-motivated purpose to Corazon's posting so far. If he thinks Sciberbia is scum, why isn't he voting for him? If he isn't confident Sciberbia is scum, why is he pushing the Sciberbia-scum argument so vehemently? I think Corazon's case is bad but obviously he doesn't. Corazon's vote doesn't have to be consistent with my opinion of his case, it has to be consistent with his opinion - and it's not.
A few posts later from where he calls cora town for his bad case now he cant see a pro town reason for it.
On November 20 2013 17:30 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Sure, Rean asked me for a scum read. That's the easiest and least insightful question you can ask, scum can do that without any effort at all. I don't see any indications that Rean is putting actual effort into his scum hunting.
You have got to be joking me? As we are speaking generically: the only time scum have an easy time giving scum reads is if they are referring to their own team. Otherwise, they are *always* lying - due to calling town players that they *know* are town... scum. Mafia is a game of psychology and motive. The whole point is to catch mafia in a lie that a townie would not execute. Scum giving bullshit scum reads is meant to be one of those avenues. I dont have a clue how you get this so wrong? Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon. Why feel the need to build a case and *vote* for Rean instead of produce a series of questioning aimed at discerning his alignment? If anything a vote/case on him could make him harder to read as it puts him on the alert??
Soft defends Rean here.
On November 21 2013 00:35 Mocsta wrote:
Jampi, I like that post.
Also just wanted to say this is one of the best Day1 town atmospheres I have seen in regarding to getting straight into analysis/sharing reads.
Keep this up and a scum day1 lynch won't be too beyond us !
/thread captain (yes thats a dig @ Onegu)
Likes a post from Jamp.
On November 21 2013 10:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about? ##UnvoteAfter I get back from a meeting I will re-read the thread with an unbiased mind. One thing not in your favour is that I personally do not like the combo of Rean/Cora, maybe 1 of them but not both (and you keep focusing attention on this) I would expect if both are scum, and you/i/thrawn were town; they would have tried to combo up more. Instead it felt like two conversations in parallel (you + rean) (thrawn + myself + cora) Another thing not in your favour is acknowledgement of Onegu. (who I do think is scum) On one hand it should be clear that he is a viable push for your safety today; but you are not taking that opportunity (even though you admit he is "scummi-ish" Though you could contest that on the other hand you should be pushing your best scum read; considering the brevity of your situation (6/12 votes) this is silly - Onegu is apparently in top 3 and could secure your safety.
Here he unvotes Aqua because he likes how he didnt push me. But somehow he ignores the possibility that we could be scum together. Why because he knows we arent. This unvote reason it terrible.
On November 21 2013 14:49 Mocsta wrote:Guys, Im about 60% through my re-read (so up to about p20) - taking a breather and only skimmed the content since Bereft voted ?rean?
Firstly, we need to start consolidating a vote as 7 is required to secure a lynch. Next, this is my group of strong town reads from p5 -> p20 {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Rayn} Yes, I do not think Aquanim is scum anymore. I think he has a different mentality and Thrawn and myself misinterpreted his intentions. Aquanim has actually been very open and transparent in a confused/wishy-washy manner; as opposed to wishy-washy in an intentionally misleading manner. This is my group of tentative town reads from p5->p20 (i.e. people i dont have interest to lynch this cycle) {Corazon, Bereft, Onegu, LoneMeow} Yes, Onegu is here. In hindsight it would be suicide as scum to come out and say he had a scum read on me and Thrawn. Unless his mission was to shit the thread, which I think is grasping at straws. I egged Onegu so will accept responsiblity for getting him to tunnel me.
Thus, this is my pile of shit left over: for todays lynch {Rean, Sciberbia, jampidampi} (Currently, i actually think these 3 *are* the scum team too) Rean already has traction, so lets hit the 7 with him. ##Vote: Rean
But here is also where it gets interesting, He gives town reads for Rayn, Bereft, , Aqua, me, and cora.
His scum reads are Sciberia, Rean, and Jamp. Before this he has had rean as a town read, Sciberia as null, and Jamp as he liked his posts. The only reason he gives for these read changes are mine and he doesnt see me doing what I did as scum.
And Aqua who he had as scum for a long time and had just unvoted. His reason? Open and Transparent
On November 21 2013 14:56 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 14:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also Moc, please stop talking about scum teams. You should know that association cases before flips are bad. Who said I was making associations? Those are my 3 scummiest reads independantly. Aside from that, I think they also have odd interactions with each other. jampidampi is in that pile 50% through Process of Elimination, 50% filter Scibs is through filter Rean is through filter I thought you would be happy that you are in my town pile.
Still no reasons
On November 21 2013 15:03 Mocsta wrote:- Picking on Corazon early game, whilst ignoring you and I for similar toned posts He phrases it as a conversation starter, but its pretty clear it is shit-stirring. - Scibs also states he hates early game trolling, yet is contributing to a negative atmosphere. THink about this: he stated Corazon was scum off what he defined later as 99% null, 1% scummy. Its clearly an over reaction and all it does is force people to point fingers at each other ==> atmosphere scum love. - His case on Corazon is terrible. #2 is acceptable because a majority misread corazon intentions #1 is terrible because scibs is a hypocrite for singling out corazon but further, he is calling corazon scummy for being bad, there is nothing about scum motive in this point #3 - is just a weak point Overall this case is calling corazon a bad townie, and relies on the reader to assume the points are scummy. This is a sign of a poor/half-assed case.. yet. scibs said i stole his thunder when i said corazon was scummy. His actions are not congruent with filter. - Scibs is suddenly suspicous of Rean, but asks such a baseless question that is not alignment-indicative. Again, this is not congruent with being a genuine scum read - Scibs has a really odd timed delurked to chat with jampidampi. In this convo he avoids discussing the interplay between rean/aqua - which makes ZERO sense if rean was his 2nd scum read. This is a *very* bad point In short: scibs is promoting a negative, finger-pointing atmosphere even though he resents trolling. This is scummy. Scibs is an analytical player but his case on corazon had no conviction and relied ont he reader to fill in the gaps. This is scummy. Scibs stance on players is not congruent with what he is asking the thread about (i.e. rean, even though he is his 2nd scum read). This is really scummy. (stopped at page 20)
This is the only reason he gives for his scum reads and atually read it. It is mostly meta, and promoting a negative thread attitude, but read his filter he isnt doing that at all, and it is subjective if he is or isnt any way not a reason to call someone scum.
On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:Read the whole game. Updated reads list: The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft} The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia} The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}
Key swaps: Sciberbia: Has nothing to do with comments before. Has to do with how he was interpreting Aquanim. If Rean flips scum, Sciberbia comes out looking pretty good for trying to get focus off Aquanim. Will have to do a specific filter-dive to firm this read up. Content in the middle. Rayn: I have loved everything he did (UNTIL) he dropped his vote on Rean out of nowhere. This just makes no sense given the back/n/forth. Corazon: I have two major issues with him (1) Hes only accusing people that have attacked him. (2) He is refusing to answer JJD question about the first post which I  EMAND* an answer for To which I will expound: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
Perhaps I could have come to that conclusion in-between my first post and the "rocking the boat" post. Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 02:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Well this is what I'm trying to find out. Did you not have a scum read in the first post but did in the 2nd? If so, what changed yoiur mind? Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 02:02 cDgCorazon wrote:
Yes because I am going to have a scum read on sciberia after 1 page of mostly joke posting... Corazon bluntly states that is it ridiculous to consider Sciberbia scum from the page 1 (which is 5). The truth lies in the filter however: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.
Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter. This quote led to a lot of confusion. Corazon later confirms the intent of rocking the boat was to call Sciberbia scummy. Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:25 cDgCorazon wrote:
The first post (about "rocking the boat") said that sciberia is either new to this game or him "rocking the boat" is scummy.
Is it not obvious to you that this isn't sciberia's first game? I said he was good at this game and that I thought he was making a calculated play with "rocking the boat".
What we have is Corazon caught in a lie. First he calls Sciberbia scummy for 1 post. More recently he states he can't have thought Scibs was scummy for that 1 post. JJD has to ask *repeatedly* for such a simple answer and Corazon continuously refuses to comply. Corazon *knows* he is caught in a lie - a scummy lie.[/
A few posts later his reads change once again.
Rayn no longer town, Scib no longer scum even though that was the only person he gave a reason for being scum, Cora goes from town to Scum. Scib is town because of a intereaction with Aqua, Rayn for a vote, and cora goes from town to scum, because he accuses his attackers, refuses to answer questions even though he does this again later and mocsta doesnt give him a scum read then.
On November 21 2013 23:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact. Wow.. we are not on the same page. The difference is Aquanim is not confident but continues to be an open book - allowing you to keep provoking him. Rean on the other hand answers the questions to the point and delivers nothing more. I know i find the latter more scummy, so should you.
Rayn now looks bad because he found something scummy but rayn didnt.
Then he votes rayn.
Ok Im on the PC and my wife needs it so Im going to just type my notes and give the relevant quotes in a bit.
Says a HF lynch would be ok with no reason.
Calls rayn 80 percent scum 20 percent policy
Ok to lynch Rean now still dont know why he is scummy.
Then has a post where Rean is now prolly town
Now thinks thrawn could possibly be scum and needs to look closer, nope quick change again to town
Bereft is now scum because he reads my notes, becomes ok with a bereft lycnh if what i say is true
Then says even if Im not stateing fact its not malicious
Says my facts on bereft are wrong but misses the most important part and that I am scum even though he just said it wouldnt be malicious if they were wrong.
I am scum for fanning the flames even though never shows where I do this.
Still town on Aqua but not complete anymore
New reads Me, Rean, and HF scum. Jamp is bad, everyone else is good
Compares reans play with mine in a different game
Calls someone out for useing scumslips but he did it often early
Bereft becomes null
Somehow I am begging him for forgiveness
Now votes Jamp who was in his bad pile not his scum pile, gives very few reasons other than scum are in inactives
Now says He voted Rayn not because he thought he was scummy (he did think he was) but would mess with town getting majority lynch off
Has rean in scum pile but defends him
Moves Aqua out of his good pile with dumb reason
Now leans town on me after my bereft case
Votes sciberia for not asking me questions
Votes JJD for a delurk but JJD was before in his town reads
Cora refuses to answer a question Mocsta doesnt call him scum for it when he did earlier.
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First of all Onegu, do you misformat cases on purpose so people just see that you made and case and actually don't read it? This is 3/4 cases that have been misformatted, if I can count right.
The fact of the matter is that this case is bad because it's hypocritical, it's partially other's arguments, and it has no teeth (like every single other case you have made).
It's hypocritical because you've switched your reads randomly as well (your 180 on Rayn with no explanation).
It's partially other's arguments because I heard most of this shit before from other people.
It has no teeth because you didn't vote for Mocsta.
No one knows who you want lynched and it seems like you never believe in any of your cases. Why are you so hesitant to vote for anyone you make a case on? Do you actually believe that Mocsta/Bereft are scum? If so, why isn't your vote on them? If not, why are you wasting our time with cases and tell us who you want lynched.
TBH Mocsta's read switches are a result of his usual play and the fact that he re-evaluates the game very often. Even the point (singular point) you make in this case is very weak.
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Also guys, you all suck and I'm not voting JJD. I made a case on Onegu and I don't think half of you have read it. You try to point out JJD being scum using his filter and his actions from a tiny little window. It's this little bad heuristic you guys have been using the whole game and it is really dumb.
Looking at JJD's filter from the entire game, do you really think he is scummier than Onegu? The answer is no.
If you guys are going to be dicks and not listen to me, why should I listen to you?
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On November 24 2013 23:19 Mocsta wrote:
I'm considering jjd sensed rean was going down and bussed him. On November 24 2013 23:57 JarJarDrinks wrote:
now gotta for a bit but will be back to explain why you're thoery about me bussing Rean is terrible. Here ya go:
I didn't reread everything prior to my Rean case, but I skimmed and I don't think that it was @ all evident that Rean was going down. Assumming vote counts are correct and in order, I was the 2nd person to vote for rean. And then yeah, I questioned Cora a bunch after that, but I never wanted to take my vote off rean untill rayn held the town hostage.
In fact on a few occasions, I was asked about other people and I was all like "Naw bro. I like my vote where it is". You'd think I'd be looking for some excuse to move my vote but I kept on keeping on no matter what.
- I was asked (by you) about rayns (now confirmed town) first batch of posts and I said I thought he looked good to me.
- everyone was all over aqua and I said I didn't find him scummy. I even told rayn how terrible I thought his case was.
- Sciberia posted a case on Onegu and I defended him
- I asked you what you thought about Rean because you hadn't comment much on him
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 11:07 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@moc
What's your read on Rean right now? Do you think he's a bad lynch today?
- Then I posted this:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 13:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Hey guys, can't post much tonight. Will have a bunch to say tomorrow. Still think Rean is the best lynch and I really hate all the alternate wagons.
I'd also be down w/ killing a lurker. First instinct tells me jampi is the best lurker lynch but I'll read up more tomorrow.
- I then argued more against Rean
- When Jampi showed up, I asked him about Rean and then specifically tried to direct his vote there
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 23:18 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:15 jampidampi wrote:On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Jampi, what do you think of Rean? Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua. So I take that to mean that if it's clear that aqua isn't gonna get lynched then you'd be happy to move your vote to Rean so we can get a majority?
If that's a bus then it's the most dedicated bus in history.
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On November 24 2013 16:05 sciberbia wrote:@Mocsta So here I am most definitely the best lynch today: + Show Spoiler +On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response. But whatevers, I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon. Things I remember from Scibs - Terrible case on Corazon - Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle - Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today. Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them. ##Unvote##Vote: SciberbiaIm catching up now but read my case he does this with everyone multiple times without giving reasons for most of it. If someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead. until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today. And here 4 hours later I'm not even in your top 4. + Show Spoiler +On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.
jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote
##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks
Nobody "did a filter dive while you were gone" and proved I was town, so what's the reasoning for this?
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On November 25 2013 01:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
First of all Onegu, do you misformat cases on purpose so people just see that you made and case and actually don't read it? This is 3/4 cases that have been misformatted, if I can count right.
The fact of the matter is that this case is bad because it's hypocritical, it's partially other's arguments, and it has no teeth (like every single other case you have made).
It's hypocritical because you've switched your reads randomly as well (your 180 on Rayn with no explanation).
It's partially other's arguments because I heard most of this shit before from other people.
It has no teeth because you didn't vote for Mocsta.
No one knows who you want lynched and it seems like you never believe in any of your cases. Why are you so hesitant to vote for anyone you make a case on? Do you actually believe that Mocsta/Bereft are scum? If so, why isn't your vote on them? If not, why are you wasting our time with cases and tell us who you want lynched.
TBH Mocsta's read switches are a result of his usual play and the fact that he re-evaluates the game very often. Even the point (singular point) you make in this case is very weak.
No just a small part I will fix the rest of it is all correct this case is readable
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On November 25 2013 01:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
First of all Onegu, do you misformat cases on purpose so people just see that you made and case and actually don't read it? This is 3/4 cases that have been misformatted, if I can count right.
The fact of the matter is that this case is bad because it's hypocritical, it's partially other's arguments, and it has no teeth (like every single other case you have made).
It's hypocritical because you've switched your reads randomly as well (your 180 on Rayn with no explanation).
It's partially other's arguments because I heard most of this shit before from other people.
It has no teeth because you didn't vote for Mocsta.
No one knows who you want lynched and it seems like you never believe in any of your cases. Why are you so hesitant to vote for anyone you make a case on? Do you actually believe that Mocsta/Bereft are scum? If so, why isn't your vote on them? If not, why are you wasting our time with cases and tell us who you want lynched.
TBH Mocsta's read switches are a result of his usual play and the fact that he re-evaluates the game very often. Even the point (singular point) you make in this case is very weak.
I switched one read cora not every single one of my reads multiple times. As I say people can change their reads, but how he does it is scummy.
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It's not as scummy as how you changed your read on Rayn. You went from scum to town and given the situation in the game and Rayn's flip, you look like you were trying to distance yourself from a Rayn lynch.
Mocsta has changed his reads but when it comes down to the hard votes and the votes that matter Mocsta's been pretty consistent (aka his vote on Rayn D1. We haven't reached that critical point in D2).
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Ok my internet has been out all day and is just now back on and it goes in and out.
My mocsta Case. I have already said my piece on his post restriction and alot on his early day one play so I am going to continue from there on out.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 02:08 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
You just played with me as scum.
Please tell Onegu he is stupid, otherwise I vote you !!! muahahahah On November 21 2013 02:44 Mocsta wrote:Interesting tidbit to shit-stir in 3 newbies vonthin was town.... suddenly replaces out with no posts
These are just a few of mocstas scum hunting, yes this is null but there are many more I just keep getting the feeling that he is feigning alot of his reads and making posts like this to up his post count and look active.
On November 21 2013 01:52 Mocsta wrote:
My mason (thrawn)
Do you get the impression onegu is just trying to shit the thread?
or am i taking this too personal?
We also keep getting post like this all through the game, mocsta really like trying to make friends with thrawn, seems really fake way to buddy buddy someone who is town and who I consider to be one of the the stronger players in the game.
On November 21 2013 00:35 Mocsta wrote:
Jampi, I like that post.
Also just wanted to say this is one of the best Day1 town atmospheres I have seen in regarding to getting straight into analysis/sharing reads.
Keep this up and a scum day1 lynch won't be too beyond us !
/thread captain (yes thats a dig @ Onegu)
I also want to point out this post and a few more that follow it or come right before this post, this is important because this is one of the main reasons why he was fine to policy lynch rayn. Even in this post we have a good town atmosphere but he takes a dig at me WTF. If the atmosphere is so go why does he need to take a dig at me it just doesn't make sense, Im not the type of person to take the bait but if I was he could then say he was ok to policy lynch me because I attacked him. Here are a few posts right around this post also only from mocsta, not to mention corazon.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.
Important things for everyone to know:
As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation
- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.
The others no idea. On November 21 2013 01:22 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:19 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 21 2013 01:10 Mocsta wrote:On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town. Fair call. It was an interpretation from JJD that I did not think was absurd. A better example of what I am referring to is the jampidampi post sandwiched between us. You mean the post where Jampi takes only two of my posts and tries to base my whole opinion on sciberia around them? Those posts were within my first 3-4 posts on the thread. I don't know where he is going with that. Matey, Keep talking to me like a douche and I can give it back to you equally.
Please, I dropped my vote off you yonks ago; I am trying to work together here. JJD = JarJarDrinks His post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=13#249Interprets your posts as calling sciberbia "bad town" and then progressing to "scum". Again, I think JJD interpretation is a fair call, so I would like to know the triggers between the accusations. On November 21 2013 02:08 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
You just played with me as scum.
Please tell Onegu he is stupid, otherwise I vote you !!! muahahahah On November 21 2013 03:59 Mocsta wrote:Im flipped dipshit.
But this all is a great town atmosphere and this is just from mocsta himself. And look how he keeps taking shots at me. Almost same with cora later but I will get to him in a bit in my next case.
Now Im going to get to the meat and potatoes of why mocsta is scum.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=8#159
Ok I want you to open up the spoiled part, and look at his reads. I know bear with me and do it. He has Sciberia and Cora as scum, because of their interactions with each other, and because of scum slips keep this scum slips in mind it comes up much later. In this post he also has bereft as scum for trying to break the town circle. Also he multiple times gives Aqua a town read and Rean a town read.
On November 20 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote:Post 13Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Moc
First of all, you skipped 11. Duly Noted - hence 12b prior Show nested quote +Second of all, are you trying to say that sciberia and I would be shit-flinging at each other in order to...bus each other? Gain town cred for after the lynch? I don't understand why you are trying to ship sciberia and I together. (1) I am not trying to say anything. I said exactly what I wanted to say. (2) This is a very scummy response. You do not actually retort anything I said; instead you try to brush it off by insinuating it is stupid/incorrect. Guess whatI am not going to take that leap of faith, and I won't let the thread take that leap either. Show nested quote +If you didn't take a look at pregame, I made a bunch of comments about how towns self-destruct. As scum, I would let you guys shit-fight amongst each other and pick and choose my votes. Everyone has an ideal way they think they would ply their trade; yet, when push comes to shove so many things do not come to bear. Translation:I don't really care what you think you would do pre-game BEFORE receiving a role PM. What I care about is how you have played this game since AFTER receiving a role PM
Now he is asked if he thinks Cora and Scib are bussing each other. Look at his very evasive answer. Im not saying anything, I said exactly what I meant to say. He never answers the question just gives a glib answer for it.
On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:Post 14@Thrawn: What do you think of Rean response. I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that. I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is. Hence, what is the point of the comment? In short I see 3 outcomes of his post + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. (A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia (B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A) (C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people. Look, I *could* see a town make this post, but I don't like how it talks about the "core" issues yet simultaneously avoids talking about the "core" issues?? Catch my drift? P.S. Fuck da POLICE
On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:Post 14@Thrawn: What do you think of Rean response. I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that. I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is. Hence, what is the point of the comment? In short I see 3 outcomes of his post + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. (A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia (B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A) (C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people. Look, I *could* see a town make this post, but I don't like how it talks about the "core" issues yet simultaneously avoids talking about the "core" issues?? Catch my drift? P.S. Fuck da POLICE
Now somehow he is tunneled on Rean after giving him a town read 3 posts ago.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=10#189
Now he magically does a reread and his reads flip all which way. Cora becomes town for his interactions with Aqua/rean
Sciberia becomes null, for consistency
And Aqua becomes scum.
Now yes people are allowed to change their reads that is fine, but as you will see mocsta does it often and with little reason or no reason.
On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. This post is obviously fake. This is the first time Aquanim commits to a scum read, and the way he does it does not look natural. He cites Corazon's case as being "sketchy at best" when earlier he gave Corazon a null read for it, because he could see how town Corazon could make the case. Seeing how a town C can make a case and calling him null does not match up with aquanim thinking the case was "sketchy at best." This means that this reason for thinking rean is scum is completely made up. After that point Aquanim talks about rean's play as a whole but I think his summary applies more to himself than it does to Rean. On top of that his allegations are false... Rean has made posts where he appears to be trying to discern alignments. Go find them, it's easy. It took me about 2 seconds after opening his filter. If it took me 2 seconds to reach the opposite conclusion Aquanim did.... something's not right. I always thought Corazon's case on sciberbia was bad. That's not inconsistent with my opinion that Corazon could be town having made that case. There were two possibilities: - Corazon was town and honestly mistaken - Corazon was making a case to generate discussion and wasn't particularly concerned with its quality. Sure, Rean asked me for a scum read. That's the easiest and least insightful question you can ask, scum can do that without any effort at all. I don't see any indications that Rean is putting actual effort into his scum hunting. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. In this post he is acknowledging that everything I said about him was correct. He's not scumhunting, etc. His excuse for this is that he's concerned that people might just come in and sheep the Corazon lynch? This is a very weak excuse for not being suspicious of anything and not trying to scumhunt. If he didn't want the thread to only talk about Corazon he could have just as easily found something else to talk about. His case and vote for Rean does not count as him trying to do this because Rean nearly forced him into it. He says he voted Rean to open a second wagon. So what does that mean? He wasn't actually that suspicious of Rean and he truly isn't suspicious of anything? I'm not buying it. Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned. Everything you said about my play was more or less accurate, why should I try and deny that? Corazon and Sciberia's little dust-up was pretty much the only thing that had happened so far in the game, so I asked some other random questions. Mocsta answered questions enthusiastically and more-or-less logically, which gives me a town read on him; Rean answered questions with mostly useless one-liners, which gives me a scum read on him. I consider my time well spent. I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon. I'm not suspicious of your motives because you're obvtown. I'm not annoyed at you because you're not ridiculously misrepresenting my play (which would be bad play), you're just wrong about my alignment.
Here he says Cora's case on Sciberia was bad, but he is town for it. Later he will say the exact opposite for voting Cora. And Rean is scummy for answering his questions but not giving good answers that weren't more than one or two lines. Thrawn is Obv Town
On November 20 2013 17:21 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned. Quote of the day. + Show Spoiler +Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive I gotta get some credit mason man Choo-Choo !!
Votes Aqua for Thrawns reason. Sure he gave his own reasons on why Aqua is scum go read them I quoted them, tell me if you think they are legit reasons or not.
On November 20 2013 17:25 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:17 Mocsta wrote:
Regarding Corazon: I find it odd you think that is damning . Unless both are scum, I find that action to be indicative of town.
You do not appear to think Sciberbia is scum; which perplexes me why you would think Corazon is thus, scum.
Okay, let me rephrase that. I don't see any town-motivated purpose to Corazon's posting so far. If he thinks Sciberbia is scum, why isn't he voting for him? If he isn't confident Sciberbia is scum, why is he pushing the Sciberbia-scum argument so vehemently? I think Corazon's case is bad but obviously he doesn't. Corazon's vote doesn't have to be consistent with my opinion of his case, it has to be consistent with his opinion - and it's not.
A few posts later from where he calls cora town for his bad case now he cant see a pro town reason for it.
On November 20 2013 17:30 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Sure, Rean asked me for a scum read. That's the easiest and least insightful question you can ask, scum can do that without any effort at all. I don't see any indications that Rean is putting actual effort into his scum hunting.
You have got to be joking me? As we are speaking generically: the only time scum have an easy time giving scum reads is if they are referring to their own team. Otherwise, they are *always* lying - due to calling town players that they *know* are town... scum. Mafia is a game of psychology and motive. The whole point is to catch mafia in a lie that a townie would not execute. Scum giving bullshit scum reads is meant to be one of those avenues. I dont have a clue how you get this so wrong? Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon. Why feel the need to build a case and *vote* for Rean instead of produce a series of questioning aimed at discerning his alignment? If anything a vote/case on him could make him harder to read as it puts him on the alert??
Soft defends Rean here.
On November 21 2013 00:35 Mocsta wrote:
Jampi, I like that post.
Also just wanted to say this is one of the best Day1 town atmospheres I have seen in regarding to getting straight into analysis/sharing reads.
Keep this up and a scum day1 lynch won't be too beyond us !
/thread captain (yes thats a dig @ Onegu)
Likes a post from Jamp.
On November 21 2013 10:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about? ##UnvoteAfter I get back from a meeting I will re-read the thread with an unbiased mind. One thing not in your favour is that I personally do not like the combo of Rean/Cora, maybe 1 of them but not both (and you keep focusing attention on this) I would expect if both are scum, and you/i/thrawn were town; they would have tried to combo up more. Instead it felt like two conversations in parallel (you + rean) (thrawn + myself + cora) Another thing not in your favour is acknowledgement of Onegu. (who I do think is scum) On one hand it should be clear that he is a viable push for your safety today; but you are not taking that opportunity (even though you admit he is "scummi-ish" Though you could contest that on the other hand you should be pushing your best scum read; considering the brevity of your situation (6/12 votes) this is silly - Onegu is apparently in top 3 and could secure your safety.
Here he unvotes Aqua because he likes how he didnt push me. But somehow he ignores the possibility that we could be scum together. Why because he knows we arent. This unvote reason it terrible.
On November 21 2013 14:49 Mocsta wrote:Guys, Im about 60% through my re-read (so up to about p20) - taking a breather and only skimmed the content since Bereft voted ?rean?
Firstly, we need to start consolidating a vote as 7 is required to secure a lynch. Next, this is my group of strong town reads from p5 -> p20 {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Rayn} Yes, I do not think Aquanim is scum anymore. I think he has a different mentality and Thrawn and myself misinterpreted his intentions. Aquanim has actually been very open and transparent in a confused/wishy-washy manner; as opposed to wishy-washy in an intentionally misleading manner. This is my group of tentative town reads from p5->p20 (i.e. people i dont have interest to lynch this cycle) {Corazon, Bereft, Onegu, LoneMeow} Yes, Onegu is here. In hindsight it would be suicide as scum to come out and say he had a scum read on me and Thrawn. Unless his mission was to shit the thread, which I think is grasping at straws. I egged Onegu so will accept responsiblity for getting him to tunnel me.
Thus, this is my pile of shit left over: for todays lynch {Rean, Sciberbia, jampidampi} (Currently, i actually think these 3 *are* the scum team too) Rean already has traction, so lets hit the 7 with him. ##Vote: Rean
But here is also where it gets interesting, He gives town reads for Rayn, Bereft, , Aqua, me, and cora.
His scum reads are Sciberia, Rean, and Jamp. Before this he has had rean as a town read, Sciberia as null, and Jamp as he liked his posts. The only reason he gives for these read changes are mine and he doesnt see me doing what I did as scum.
And Aqua who he had as scum for a long time and had just unvoted. His reason? Open and Transparent
On November 21 2013 14:56 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 14:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also Moc, please stop talking about scum teams. You should know that association cases before flips are bad. Who said I was making associations? Those are my 3 scummiest reads independantly. Aside from that, I think they also have odd interactions with each other. jampidampi is in that pile 50% through Process of Elimination, 50% filter Scibs is through filter Rean is through filter I thought you would be happy that you are in my town pile.
Still no reasons
On November 21 2013 15:03 Mocsta wrote:- Picking on Corazon early game, whilst ignoring you and I for similar toned posts He phrases it as a conversation starter, but its pretty clear it is shit-stirring. - Scibs also states he hates early game trolling, yet is contributing to a negative atmosphere. THink about this: he stated Corazon was scum off what he defined later as 99% null, 1% scummy. Its clearly an over reaction and all it does is force people to point fingers at each other ==> atmosphere scum love. - His case on Corazon is terrible. #2 is acceptable because a majority misread corazon intentions #1 is terrible because scibs is a hypocrite for singling out corazon but further, he is calling corazon scummy for being bad, there is nothing about scum motive in this point #3 - is just a weak point Overall this case is calling corazon a bad townie, and relies on the reader to assume the points are scummy. This is a sign of a poor/half-assed case.. yet. scibs said i stole his thunder when i said corazon was scummy. His actions are not congruent with filter. - Scibs is suddenly suspicous of Rean, but asks such a baseless question that is not alignment-indicative. Again, this is not congruent with being a genuine scum read - Scibs has a really odd timed delurked to chat with jampidampi. In this convo he avoids discussing the interplay between rean/aqua - which makes ZERO sense if rean was his 2nd scum read. This is a *very* bad point In short: scibs is promoting a negative, finger-pointing atmosphere even though he resents trolling. This is scummy. Scibs is an analytical player but his case on corazon had no conviction and relied ont he reader to fill in the gaps. This is scummy. Scibs stance on players is not congruent with what he is asking the thread about (i.e. rean, even though he is his 2nd scum read). This is really scummy. (stopped at page 20)
This is the only reason he gives for his scum reads and atually read it. It is mostly meta, and promoting a negative thread attitude, but read his filter he isnt doing that at all, and it is subjective if he is or isnt any way not a reason to call someone scum.
On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:Read the whole game. Updated reads list: The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft} The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia} The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}
Key swaps: Sciberbia: Has nothing to do with comments before. Has to do with how he was interpreting Aquanim. If Rean flips scum, Sciberbia comes out looking pretty good for trying to get focus off Aquanim. Will have to do a specific filter-dive to firm this read up. Content in the middle. Rayn: I have loved everything he did (UNTIL) he dropped his vote on Rean out of nowhere. This just makes no sense given the back/n/forth. Corazon: I have two major issues with him (1) Hes only accusing people that have attacked him. (2) He is refusing to answer JJD question about the first post which I EMAND* an answer for To which I will expound: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
Perhaps I could have come to that conclusion in-between my first post and the "rocking the boat" post. Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 02:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Well this is what I'm trying to find out. Did you not have a scum read in the first post but did in the 2nd? If so, what changed yoiur mind? Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 02:02 cDgCorazon wrote:
Yes because I am going to have a scum read on sciberia after 1 page of mostly joke posting... Corazon bluntly states that is it ridiculous to consider Sciberbia scum from the page 1 (which is 5). The truth lies in the filter however: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.
Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter. This quote led to a lot of confusion. Corazon later confirms the intent of rocking the boat was to call Sciberbia scummy. Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:25 cDgCorazon wrote:
The first post (about "rocking the boat") said that sciberia is either new to this game or him "rocking the boat" is scummy.
Is it not obvious to you that this isn't sciberia's first game? I said he was good at this game and that I thought he was making a calculated play with "rocking the boat".
What we have is Corazon caught in a lie. First he calls Sciberbia scummy for 1 post. More recently he states he can't have thought Scibs was scummy for that 1 post. JJD has to ask *repeatedly* for such a simple answer and Corazon continuously refuses to comply. Corazon *knows* he is caught in a lie - a scummy lie.[/
A few posts later his reads change once again.
Rayn no longer town, Scib no longer scum even though that was the only person he gave a reason for being scum, Cora goes from town to Scum. Scib is town because of a intereaction with Aqua, Rayn for a vote, and cora goes from town to scum, because he accuses his attackers, refuses to answer questions even though he does this again later and mocsta doesnt give him a scum read then.
On November 21 2013 23:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact. Wow.. we are not on the same page. The difference is Aquanim is not confident but continues to be an open book - allowing you to keep provoking him. Rean on the other hand answers the questions to the point and delivers nothing more. I know i find the latter more scummy, so should you.
Rayn now looks bad because he found something scummy but rayn didnt.
Then he votes rayn.
Ok Im on the PC and my wife needs it so Im going to just type my notes and give the relevant quotes in a bit.
Says a HF lynch would be ok with no reason.
Calls rayn 80 percent scum 20 percent policy
Ok to lynch Rean now still dont know why he is scummy.
Then has a post where Rean is now prolly town
Now thinks thrawn could possibly be scum and needs to look closer, nope quick change again to town
Bereft is now scum because he reads my notes, becomes ok with a bereft lycnh if what i say is true
Then says even if Im not stateing fact its not malicious
Says my facts on bereft are wrong but misses the most important part and that I am scum even though he just said it wouldnt be malicious if they were wrong.
I am scum for fanning the flames even though never shows where I do this.
Still town on Aqua but not complete anymore
New reads Me, Rean, and HF scum. Jamp is bad, everyone else is good
Compares reans play with mine in a different game
Calls someone out for useing scumslips but he did it often early
Bereft becomes null
Somehow I am begging him for forgiveness
Now votes Jamp who was in his bad pile not his scum pile, gives very few reasons other than scum are in inactives
Now says He voted Rayn not because he thought he was scummy (he did think he was) but would mess with town getting majority lynch off
Has rean in scum pile but defends him
Moves Aqua out of his good pile with dumb reason
Now leans town on me after my bereft case
Votes sciberia for not asking me questions
Votes JJD for a delurk but JJD was before in his town reads
Cora refuses to answer a question Mocsta doesnt call him scum for it when he did earlier.
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You can read it now or let me finish and pull out the relevant quotes and flesh out my meaning from the notes
Also its quoteing mocsta that is messing me up not the parts I write that is why sometimes I use links instead of quotes.
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Also cora maybe you should read the case like if thrawn or someone you find townie wrote it and not just dismiss it because I wrote it and I changed my read on rayn, who I know his meta well at this point I can tell when he is scum.
Also if I was scum I would have hammered rayn so hard at that point.
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So guys after we kill sciberbia and take over the police state, I was thinking we should come up with our own uniforms. To celebrate the season of our victory, I think we should have a turkey as our emblem. The new brown state will bring the family back together and fill the stomachs of the hungry. Everyone will be thankful for the color brown and give generously to the new state. No one an refuse family.
Doesn't that sound satisfying?
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On November 25 2013 01:47 Onegu wrote:
Also cora maybe you should read the case like if thrawn or someone you find townie wrote it and not just dismiss it because I wrote it and I changed my read on rayn, who I know his meta well at this point I can tell when he is scum.
Also if I was scum I would have hammered rayn so hard at that point.
The best thing for the scum to do in that situation is vote and do nothing as Rayn is self-destructive.
Please answer my other points in refuting your Mocsta case and answer my big case on you, please.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4t8oM40)
