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On November 22 2013 06:26 cDgCorazon wrote:
Your logic is bad ≠ you are scum
You should know better, Rayn
nah Cora.
What JarJar is doing is that he has zero reasons to think i am scum other than "Rean is scum".
This is not about logic. This is about thought process. You do not vote for someone because "they are defending a scumbuddy". You flip the scum and THEN say they WERE defending a scumbuddy.
Look at the quote JarJar is trying to bring up. That's a fucking DAY after i started "defending" Rean. He does not bring anything up about my defense, and how my defense does not make sense. He does not bring my scummy behavior regarding Rean up until NOW, when i "martyred". Originally that was his reasoning for voting for me, because he did not say anything else.
I am still going to make the case, but here are the bullet points:
- How JJD treats his scumread Rean. He never interacts with him
- He never tries to convince anyone Rean is scum
- He talks about anything but why Rean is scum, all he says is "all other cases are crap"
- In fact he talks more about Corazon between voting for Rean - voting for me
- He does not tell anyone why his case is better than others
- He is not scumhunting, he is just happily sitting on his vote, and when he can make a better vote he does it
Seriously, my case is going to include all of JJD's filter, just that you see how he does not give a fuck about lynching scum.
I hope you read it because i know people are usually too lazy to even read filters and usually i don't give a fuck but if you are gonna lynch me then i suppose i need to give a fuck so you can look at my post after that.
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On November 22 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[*]He talks about anything but why Rean is scum, all he says is "all other cases are crap" My original case on Rean:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:K, so I think Rean looks pretty bad too. Like really bad. Almost every one of his posts seem scummy to me. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Says nothing about the game. Makes an empty threat. Posts completely obvious stuff. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. That's not what he thinks of Mocsta. That's telling us how Mocsta has been acting. It's a recap and nothing more. Did he really think that Bereft was asking how Mocsta was acting and NOT whether he though he scummy or not? Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:14 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? I'd say town, scum is typically more laidback. But could just be a good scumbag. So Aqua follows up and he give a very non-committal answer of "probably town but could be scum". Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. @ least aqua is asking stuff. Rean never asked a question or gave any read, aside from the non read I posted above after he was asked TWICE. All his posts were stating the obvious/answering questions unrelated to reads. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red". Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind. On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? So apparently, he now has a scumread from cora? Wasn't he JUST defending him? ##Vote: Rean
On November 22 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[*]How JJD treats his scumread Rean. He never interacts with him Me, interacting w/ Rean:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 13:42 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 13:26 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote:Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add: On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote:Forgot this: On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments. i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed. if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read. ##Vote: Rean How many fucking posts will I have to answer where people make statements WITHOUT READING THE FUCKING POST THEY'RE QUOTING. I, in exact words say I'm not trying to defend Cora and you see that as admitting to defending him? I was pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic because I didn't want him to use poor arguments that Cora could easily deflect. Is this wrong in your eyes? And your "it's not like he says", both things are the fucking same just differently worded. You can say you weren't trying to defend cora. But you were. Moc made an argument and you said it was flawed. There's no other way to interpret that. And you didn't even point out what you didn't like about mocstas case. WHy did you think that Moc was falling into the trap? How could cora have easily deflected his argument? By saying "Your logic is flawed because you think I'm scum." ? On November 21 2013 13:47 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Not sure if my point came across there.
what I'm saying is, you said that you were "pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic".
But saying that Moc is falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap is NOT a flaw in logic. It could explain why Moc was using faulty logic. But it's not a mistake in logic itself. On November 21 2013 13:52 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 13:47 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Not sure if my point came across there.
what I'm saying is, you said that you were "pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic".
But saying that Moc is falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap is NOT a flaw in logic. It could explain why Moc was using faulty logic. But it's not a mistake in logic itself. I keep coming up w/ better ways to phrase what I'm asking. My real question is this: Why when you read Mocs case did you think that he might be falling into that trap? How come you didn't read it and think "that makes sense", especially since you had a scumread on cora? bed now for me too On November 21 2013 14:03 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 13:55 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 13:42 JarJarDrinks wrote:On November 21 2013 13:26 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote:Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add: On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote:Forgot this: On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments. i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed. if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read. ##Vote: Rean How many fucking posts will I have to answer where people make statements WITHOUT READING THE FUCKING POST THEY'RE QUOTING. I, in exact words say I'm not trying to defend Cora and you see that as admitting to defending him? I was pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic because I didn't want him to use poor arguments that Cora could easily deflect. Is this wrong in your eyes? And your "it's not like he says", both things are the fucking same just differently worded. You can say you weren't trying to defend cora. But you were. Moc made an argument and you said it was flawed. There's no other way to interpret that. And you didn't even point out what you didn't like about mocstas case. WHy did you think that Moc was falling into the trap? How could cora have easily deflected his argument? By saying "Your logic is flawed because you think I'm scum." ? It's not defending him, it's making sure Cora can't defend himself as easily by making sure the arguments are solid. As for your second point, when you quoted the post where "I defend Cora", did you happen to notice that the reason for my comment on Mocsta's post was in the same damn post right below what you quoted? With further explanation in the next post when Mocsta asks me about it? OK right, this sentence: "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red." I guess I forgot about that. You did give a reason. It just seems like a strange thing to say about someone you're reading as scum. If it's a legitimate point then he's not scum.
On November 22 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[*]He never tries to convince anyone Rean is scum Me, trying to convince people Rean is scum:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 11:07 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@moc
What's your read on Rean right now? Do you think he's a bad lynch today? On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Jampi, what do you think of Rean? On November 21 2013 23:18 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:15 jampidampi wrote:On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Jampi, what do you think of Rean? Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua. So I take that to mean that if it's clear that aqua isn't gonna get lynched then you'd be happy to move your vote to Rean so we can get a majority?
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Australia2849 Posts
On November 22 2013 05:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
This lynch is so stupid. I can't believe you guys let Mocsta take you by the balls and vote out Rayn just because they were having an ego fight.
Lol no. I want to lynch Rayn because I don't believe he plays this way as town. Rayn tunnels, it's what he does. Do you seriously believe this sequence of events from a town Rayn:
- Rayn wants to lynch Bereft/Onegu
- A bunch of votes materialises in Rayn
- Rayn's now willing to lynch Jampidampi
My impresssion from my quick read of what's happened since I went to sleep is that this trend is continuing: Rayn doesn't give a damn who we lynch today as long as it's not Rean.
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Australia2849 Posts
Actually, in that case,
@Corazon
Why are you voting for Rayn? Do you think he's scum?
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The case:
Here is where JJD votes for Rean:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:K, so I think Rean looks pretty bad too. Like really bad. Almost every one of his posts seem scummy to me. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Says nothing about the game. Makes an empty threat. Posts completely obvious stuff. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. That's not what he thinks of Mocsta. That's telling us how Mocsta has been acting. It's a recap and nothing more. Did he really think that Bereft was asking how Mocsta was acting and NOT whether he though he scummy or not? Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:14 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? I'd say town, scum is typically more laidback. But could just be a good scumbag. So Aqua follows up and he give a very non-committal answer of "probably town but could be scum". Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. @ least aqua is asking stuff. Rean never asked a question or gave any read, aside from the non read I posted above after he was asked TWICE. All his posts were stating the obvious/answering questions unrelated to reads. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red". Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind. On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? So apparently, he now has a scumread from cora? Wasn't he JUST defending him? ##Vote: Rean
The case is okay. I admit that. But what happens then?
He makes 8 posts that have nothing to do with Rean. In fact those posts are talking about Corazon's statement about sciberbia. Why? His job is not to defend Corazon, his job is to make sure the town lynches scum. He is not doing that. Last post is to say "i'll look into Aqua" (another candidate at that time).
This is the point when i start questioning Rean because JJD is somehow incapable of doing so. I question him about his sciberbia read. JJD chimes in with:
On November 21 2013 03:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 03:22 Rean wrote:
Neither before nor after he did anything about it. That's why I said it feels odd...but as I've said twice already, I want to see his response to this. Maybe you're right and he just wanted his opinion to be known. We'll know once he gets in here.
Seems like a wierd statement. What will we know exactly once he gets in here? Whether he really thinks you're scummy or whether he was lying about it?
I am already talking about that, this is repeating what i say, "yeah i agree with rayn". He has not done his work in questioning Rean, his top read, he has talked about entirely something else the whole fucking time. He does not give a shit about the lynch.
Then he reads Aqua, comment is "i don't find him scummy at all".
When questioned about it "he thinks Rean is scummy for same reasons i do".
Connection bullshit.
Then he makes another 7 posts. About what? Accusing Corazon of being scum!! But his vote is on Rean. rofl.
At that time i question Rean about JJD's case and he has no intention to talk about his top scumread his vote is on. Instead he finds it more productive to accuse Corazon of being scum. Right.
When i come to a conclusion Rean is most likely town and switch my vote, what does JJD do:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 10:28 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this: On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread. On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote:
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. Why the contradiction? This is the best case in this game. Really, cause I think this case sucks. @ first I read it and thought that top bolded quote was from aqua and thought "yeah, that is pretty shifty. But no shiftier than how Rean said he was gonna vote for people that post meaningless one-liners and then proceed to make a bunch of meaningless one-line posts. But that wasn't even aquanims quote. He was just agreeing w/ the general sentiment. I don't how you can see that post and believe that aqua was saying that he was always gonna vote his top scumread.
He defends Aquanim for no reason. I point out a contradiction in what Aquanim says and how he acts. JJD defends Aqua and says "here, Rean did this like same stuff, but what Rean did is worse". Okay. But he has never updated that thought, i asked Rean about it and Rean explained. IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED! JJD had nothing to say about it. Apparently he thinks his scumread is talking out of his ass but he says nothing about it. Seems legit? roflskates.
Then he makes some random posts about sciberbia and asks Mocsta if Mocsta thinks Rean is the best lynch. Then he says this:
On November 21 2013 13:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Hey guys, can't post much tonight. Will have a bunch to say tomorrow. Still think Rean is the best lynch and I really hate all the alternate wagons.
I'd also be down w/ killing a lurker. First instinct tells me jampi is the best lurker lynch but I'll read up more tomorrow.
"Rean is the best lynch but i also agree with this."
Then Rean gets angry because he has answered all the accusations. JJD says "you can't say this because you were not doing that". It takes four posts, and then JJD concedes "okay maybe you meant that".
I guess I forgot about that. You did give a reason. It just seems like a strange thing to say about someone you're reading as scum. If it's a legitimate point then he's not scum.
Then this:
On November 21 2013 22:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:
The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft}
The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia}
The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}
<3 you man. Pretty much my reads exactly. Though I'd probably move Scib and Onegu up to the green group. Rayn has fallen way down for me from his early game. If I was gonna remove anyone from the reds, Rayne would probably take their place. The only thing troubling, and I think you touched on this earlier, I'm not sure if I'm crazy about a Rean/Cora scumteam. Would need to reread a bunch but I think that can be worried about after the flip.
"rayn is scummy now because he defended Rean (which you never said was scummy before while i have been defending him for like 24h)".
Connection case that is shit. He gives me a "scumread" (but really does not) for no reason. He has never said before this i defended Rean for wrong reasons. He has never interacted with me. He has never pointed out how my defense was bad. Hell he has not even addressed me - Rean interactions IN THE WHOLE GAME, other than one - when it suited his agenda of calling Rean scum. But NOW it's just bad.
On November 21 2013 23:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town. Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him.
Notice this is Jampidampi questioning me. "HEY YEAH, EXPLAIN THAT BECAUSE I AM TOO SCARED TO QUESTION YOU MYSELF". This is what JJD is doing a lot of this game; "Yeah good question, explain that person X". Sheep.
I COULD see this coming from a townie if they were tunneled and just yelling people "Rean is scum" and putting all effort into making people vote for Rean. But JJD is not doing that. He is talking about everything else but Rean.
Then he votes for me. For martyring. Then he backpedals from the reasoning when i point out why he is scum. Just read these posts:
On November 21 2013 23:58 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If anyone thinks these posts come from a townie vote for me.
Otherwise vote for Mocsta. ##Unvote
##Vote: Rayn
Clearly because of "martyring".
On November 22 2013 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I don't like anty lynch aside from Rayn or Rean here. Rayn made his move and got all the votes off Rean. If we switch to someone else, we're letting him dictate the vote. If we move off Rayne, they need to go back to Rean.
On November 22 2013 05:55 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I think you're scum because of your hard-defending of Rean. I can't see a town motive for you to go apeshit about how we're mislynching him. You just can't be that sure about someone that you thought was scum @ one point. I think he's your scumbuddy and you're doing everything you can to keep him out of the noose.
On November 22 2013 06:06 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 05:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you think i am scum because of defending him that can't possibly be true if Rean is not scum. Therefore you should be voting for Rean and not me.
/dunked lol. So I should be voting for Rean even though my vote wouid be totally wasted there instead of for you who is also a scumread of mine?
Especially read the last two quotes.
Also read my bullet point post (that's like table of contents).
JarJarDrinks is mafia!
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On November 22 2013 07:08 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[*]He talks about anything but why Rean is scum, all he says is "all other cases are crap" My original case on Rean: + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:K, so I think Rean looks pretty bad too. Like really bad. Almost every one of his posts seem scummy to me. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Says nothing about the game. Makes an empty threat. Posts completely obvious stuff. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. That's not what he thinks of Mocsta. That's telling us how Mocsta has been acting. It's a recap and nothing more. Did he really think that Bereft was asking how Mocsta was acting and NOT whether he though he scummy or not? Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:14 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? I'd say town, scum is typically more laidback. But could just be a good scumbag. So Aqua follows up and he give a very non-committal answer of "probably town but could be scum". Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. @ least aqua is asking stuff. Rean never asked a question or gave any read, aside from the non read I posted above after he was asked TWICE. All his posts were stating the obvious/answering questions unrelated to reads. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red". Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind. On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? So apparently, he now has a scumread from cora? Wasn't he JUST defending him? ##Vote: Rean Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[*]How JJD treats his scumread Rean. He never interacts with him Me, interacting w/ Rean: + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 13:42 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 13:26 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote:Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add: On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote:Forgot this: On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments. i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed. if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read. ##Vote: Rean How many fucking posts will I have to answer where people make statements WITHOUT READING THE FUCKING POST THEY'RE QUOTING. I, in exact words say I'm not trying to defend Cora and you see that as admitting to defending him? I was pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic because I didn't want him to use poor arguments that Cora could easily deflect. Is this wrong in your eyes? And your "it's not like he says", both things are the fucking same just differently worded. You can say you weren't trying to defend cora. But you were. Moc made an argument and you said it was flawed. There's no other way to interpret that. And you didn't even point out what you didn't like about mocstas case. WHy did you think that Moc was falling into the trap? How could cora have easily deflected his argument? By saying "Your logic is flawed because you think I'm scum." ? On November 21 2013 13:47 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Not sure if my point came across there.
what I'm saying is, you said that you were "pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic".
But saying that Moc is falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap is NOT a flaw in logic. It could explain why Moc was using faulty logic. But it's not a mistake in logic itself. On November 21 2013 13:52 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 13:47 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Not sure if my point came across there.
what I'm saying is, you said that you were "pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic".
But saying that Moc is falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap is NOT a flaw in logic. It could explain why Moc was using faulty logic. But it's not a mistake in logic itself. I keep coming up w/ better ways to phrase what I'm asking. My real question is this: Why when you read Mocs case did you think that he might be falling into that trap? How come you didn't read it and think "that makes sense", especially since you had a scumread on cora? bed now for me too On November 21 2013 14:03 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 13:55 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 13:42 JarJarDrinks wrote:On November 21 2013 13:26 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote:Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add: On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote:Forgot this: On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments. i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed. if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read. ##Vote: Rean How many fucking posts will I have to answer where people make statements WITHOUT READING THE FUCKING POST THEY'RE QUOTING. I, in exact words say I'm not trying to defend Cora and you see that as admitting to defending him? I was pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic because I didn't want him to use poor arguments that Cora could easily deflect. Is this wrong in your eyes? And your "it's not like he says", both things are the fucking same just differently worded. You can say you weren't trying to defend cora. But you were. Moc made an argument and you said it was flawed. There's no other way to interpret that. And you didn't even point out what you didn't like about mocstas case. WHy did you think that Moc was falling into the trap? How could cora have easily deflected his argument? By saying "Your logic is flawed because you think I'm scum." ? It's not defending him, it's making sure Cora can't defend himself as easily by making sure the arguments are solid. As for your second point, when you quoted the post where "I defend Cora", did you happen to notice that the reason for my comment on Mocsta's post was in the same damn post right below what you quoted? With further explanation in the next post when Mocsta asks me about it? OK right, this sentence: "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red." I guess I forgot about that. You did give a reason. It just seems like a strange thing to say about someone you're reading as scum. If it's a legitimate point then he's not scum. Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[*]He never tries to convince anyone Rean is scum Me, trying to convince people Rean is scum: + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 11:07 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@moc
What's your read on Rean right now? Do you think he's a bad lynch today? On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Jampi, what do you think of Rean? On November 21 2013 23:18 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:15 jampidampi wrote:On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Jampi, what do you think of Rean? Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua. So I take that to mean that if it's clear that aqua isn't gonna get lynched then you'd be happy to move your vote to Rean so we can get a majority?
Yeah, as you put it, it's pretty hilarious. 7/50 posts of yours are towards scumhunting <3
It's pretty low, considering you said "every other case is shit".
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Also ALL THESE POSTS BESIDES ONE ARE FROM EARLY ON IN THE GAME!
you never bring up anything i talk about Rean. Yet you magically have a fucking scum-scum read between us.
Tell me, you scum!JJD. Which of our interactions are scum-scum and why?
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+ Show Spoiler +I laugh at all these people who claim they can read me.
the only person who can actually read me is marvellosity (maybe Hapa).
you are all so bad
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Australia2849 Posts
On November 22 2013 07:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I laugh at all these people who claim they can read me.
the only person who can actually read me is marvellosity (maybe Hapa).
you are all so bad
You can laugh after you flip.
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I suggest you start contributing Aquanim.
Because you can't be 100% sure i am scum. And if you don't, after i flip people see you took the easy way out.
Tell me, why am i scum?
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While i wait, here are my other scumreads, cases on Mocsta and Bereft.
Sorry it'll take about an hour, there is a lot of stuff.
But i'll get there.
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I will be shocked -- SHOCKED -- if rayn flips town. but not sorry.
Rean, you caught up on the thread yet? HF, how far along are you?
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Australia2849 Posts
On November 22 2013 07:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I suggest you start contributing Aquanim.
Because you can't be 100% sure i am scum. And if you don't, after i flip people see you took the easy way out.
Tell me, why am i scum?
On November 22 2013 07:13 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 05:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
This lynch is so stupid. I can't believe you guys let Mocsta take you by the balls and vote out Rayn just because they were having an ego fight. Lol no. I want to lynch Rayn because I don't believe he plays this way as town. Rayn tunnels, it's what he does. Do you seriously believe this sequence of events from a town Rayn: - Rayn wants to lynch Bereft/Onegu - A bunch of votes materialises in Rayn - Rayn's now willing to lynch Jampidampi My impresssion from my quick read of what's happened since I went to sleep is that this trend is continuing: Rayn doesn't give a damn who we lynch today as long as it's not Rean.
Add to that now Mocsta and JarJarDrinks... and each of your cases is trashier and more desperate than the last.
The fact of the matter is that I'm under no obligation to prove to you that you're scum.
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I lied, it does not take long to tell why they are scum.
Bullet points why Mocsta and Bereft are scum:
On November 22 2013 02:20 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
Have you been mislynched before?
On November 22 2013 02:16 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 01:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 22 2013 01:13 Mocsta wrote:On November 22 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I started playing, that's the explanation. Funny that. Town when not playing and scummy when you start playing. Yeah in every single game i actually play i am considdered ascummy, it's something you should know. When i am obv-town i am usually scum. Something you should know too. Rayn, with every post you write I only want to lynch you more. I'm at work, but if anyone other than yourself wants to pick my brain or discuss, I'll do my best to oblige. you are completely crumbling and I think you've called nearly every single person in this thread scummy and I have no desire to engage with you as (a) I have 0 tolerance for your attitude and (b) you're doing a perfectly fine job shooting yourself in the foot without any of my prodding. its not my job to convince you you are scum. its my job to get a majority mislynch right now. Cora how do you interpret rayn's behavior? do you read it purely as an ego trip? what do you think of the fact that first he claims jampi not voting for him is scummy, then follows it up with the argument that if onegu votes for him, then onegu is scummy? why do you think its more beneficial to keep a toxic player around who gives the fake intention of martyring (without actually intending to be a martyr) vs an analytical level headed player who's at least giving the impression of being as transparent as possible?
Everything else is in my filter about them.
Mocsta could be town. Then thrawn, that might actually take more than 5min because it's not this easy of a case. 
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Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"?
How does that make me scum?
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Rean you better be town this gme, otherwise i look so fucking bad to everyone playing mafia on TL
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Australia2849 Posts
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"?
How does that make me scum?
Do you agree that you don't give a fuck about who we lynch as long as it's not Rean, or are you merely saying it for the sake of the argument?
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@Sciberbia, jamidampi, rean
Why are you not voting Raynpelikoneet?
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On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"?
How does that make me scum?
do you need it spelled out for you? why do you care so much about potentially mislynching Rean, but you don't have ANY qualms about lynching anyone else in the game? you DO realize it's not 2 town vs. 10 mafia, right? who's your strongest town read after Rean? Onegu? and how about after that?
also, it's pretty obvious so I don't know why it begs repeating, but it's the job of every responsible townie to not throw away their vote and get a majority lynch on a scum read right now. scib, I'm looking at you.
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On November 22 2013 08:07 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"?
How does that make me scum? Do you agree that you don't give a fuck about who we lynch as long as it's not Rean, or are you merely saying it for the sake of the argument?
I just made a case on JJD. wtf are you talking about?
Do you even read the thread. Of course i fucking care about who we lynch. I just don't want to lynch town.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4t8oM40)
