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On November 24 2013 12:31 Alakaslam wrote:
Ok, so it looks like everyone wants to give Texas what he wanted. Any objections...? Do YOU have any, Sir Slam?
thrawn,
I notice you really poked at onegu's votes, which are, indeed, kinda awful. Do you think his play as a WHOLE is scummy? Is the rest of his play townie/null, but the votes are just so bad that he's scummy?
If I don't want to lynch risen (and I don't), and you don't want me lynching you (you don't), then let's chat, or you can send me down some filter holes to go check people out, or ... pretty much whatever. But I'd like to know your thoughts on the rest of onegu's play.
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SS' final reads can take a backseat. Anyone using the fact that he's confirmed town as reasoning to say that SS is all of a sudden 100% right needs to slap themselves in the face as hard as they can. Take your dominant hand (for most people that's the right hand) and draw it in a rapid motion from right-to-left (left-to-right if left-handed) such that your palm strikes your cheek in a glancing but definitive contact that results in a jarring sensation. Good. Now play the fucking game you pieces of shit holy fuck balls dhjfsdahgkfjgshdvmdfiahfueahlguahlfhvkmfdvuhfglnwefujludhlfkjngfjnkj.
Disregard the WIFOM bombs caused by BC's voteswitch because that is exactly what it is - WIFOM. Explain why Risen is scum without BC incriminating him. In the meantime, explain how Pandain is town, knowing that he at some point has lied, either TO confirmed-town-supersoft in their masonchat or to the thread regarding said masonchat, or debunk my case on Pandain, or since you all have such a fucking hard-on for flipped townies, read Rayn's case on Pandain. I'm headed to bed shortly, and I'll be away from my computer until tomorrow evening. Maybe some phone posting tomorrow.
##Vote: Pandain
Btw, I'm 3rd party planar dragon, because semi-open setups with minimal notifications get broken by mass-claims (see OATS IS SCUM BECAUSE RB HERP DERP FUCKING SS CONFIRMED TOWN GREATEST EVAR OMG).
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I will look back more at Pandain today.
His votes yesterday look like mega-butt though, BC swap aside. How do you feel about various entities on this list:
Pandain (6): Risen, Hopeless1der, raynpelikoneet, Coagulation, Risen, Pandain, thrawn2112, LoneMeow, BloodyC0bbler
I assume you find yourself townie, so coag, thrawn, LM.
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i trust you the most right now since you appear to give a shit about continuing to play the game, so for that your read of LM as town gets sheeped by me. However, LM has done next to nothing this game so its only because I don't have a better reason than "lurking" to call him scum that I choose to ignore him. The game is over 300 pages, and he still has 3. One hundredth of the thread is LoneMeow. Thats fucked. If it was LYLO, he'd be under consideration but for now, forget about him.
Coag is as about as useless as LM, but with double the filter.
I agree that thrawn looks scummy based on the past couple pages. More suiciding onto Grack makes no sense though, so I'm hesitant. I'd be willing to lynch thrawn today, at least over Risen (but not over Pandain).
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Yeah I don't agree with your case Hopeless. It's already been well explained by now that Pandain didn't want to reveal to the thread that he was a veteran (what's the point of being a veteran if you do) that is why he lied. I agree some of the Storrzerg stuff was really strange but other than that I don't see anything worthwhile in your case. Pandain's posts regarding BH were actually completely misrepresented in your case as well.
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On November 24 2013 13:53 Hopeless1der wrote:
i trust you the most right now since you appear to give a shit about continuing to play the game, so for that your read of LM as town gets sheeped by me. However, LM has done next to nothing this game so its only because I don't have a better reason than "lurking" to call him scum that I choose to ignore him. The game is over 300 pages, and he still has 3. One hundredth of the thread is LoneMeow. Thats fucked. If it was LYLO, he'd be under consideration but for now, forget about him.
Coag is as about as useless as LM, but with double the filter.
I agree that thrawn looks scummy based on the past couple pages. More suiciding onto Grack makes no sense though, so I'm hesitant. I'd be willing to lynch thrawn today, at least over Risen (but not over Pandain). I want to hear from mig about why he finds the log scummy. I find the start townie, I wish he'd stayed active and talked/bullshitted with me about BC's dying post and stuff, but oh well. It lessens the townieness of our mason chat, but overall I'm still...okay with it I think.
On November 24 2013 13:54 Grackaroni wrote:
Yeah I don't agree with your case Hopeless. It's already been well explained by now that Pandain didn't want to reveal to the thread that he was a veteran (what's the point of being a veteran if you do) that is why he lied. I agree some of the Storrzerg stuff was really strange but other than that I don't see anything worthwhile in your case. Pandain's posts regarding BH were actually completely misrepresented in your case as well. What do you think about the parts in both rayn and hopeless's cases on Pandain's storrzerg read D1?
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On November 24 2013 13:19 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 12:31 Alakaslam wrote:
Ok, so it looks like everyone wants to give Texas what he wanted. Any objections...? Do YOU have any, Sir Slam? thrawn, I notice you really poked at onegu's votes, which are, indeed, kinda awful. Do you think his play as a WHOLE is scummy? Is the rest of his play townie/null, but the votes are just so bad that he's scummy? If I don't want to lynch risen (and I don't), and you don't want me lynching you (you don't), then let's chat, or you can send me down some filter holes to go check people out, or ... pretty much whatever. But I'd like to know your thoughts on the rest of onegu's play.
Well, yeah, but there is WIFOM
I'm trying to see if I should trust myself at all
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On November 17 2013 10:26 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 10:26 Grackaroni wrote:
@pandain: I'm just confused with what you actually believe about Storrzerg. First you said that him using the newb card was scummy and then you said that he's probably not scum because scum wouldn't try to run for mayor and use the newb card like he did.
Did he keep using it after people called him out for it or is there something else I am missing? No I thought he was more scummy for using the newb card while running for mayor
Actually you are right Austin. This needs to be explained.
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I promise I read stuff. There's a lot in those cases that I throw out, including some side-stuff that is unimportant like VE saying pandain scum-slipped by noting there was only one mafia mason (absolutely can't be true if pandain mafia).
But the storrzerg comments DID just jump back and forth between townie/scummy.
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On November 20 2013 04:21 Hopeless1der wrote:##Unvote: Blazinghand
##Vote PandainI'll gladly switch back/support either for the double lynch tomorrow. However, I'm much more convinced on Pandain than BH atm. I could believe BH is an assassin. I can't believe Pandain is anything but scum. + Show Spoiler +So first, there is the whole "Vote Kush for mayor" that people were getting on Grack's case about. Pandain was right there with him, the Grackapack going strong. Except it wasnt that strong, and Pandain was just trolling around for the hell of it. The trolling isnt really alignment indicative, but following Gracks lead is. Consider how hard Mocsta pushed Grack, and now BH is doing the same. (BC too, but I'm not convinced he's scum) Pandain's early game hesitance to call Grack scum looks fishy: Except me and Grack had already informally planned to campaign for Kush, see before the game. I was going to make a post for Kush, in fact I was in the process of making a post, just mine was longer so it took longer to post. Plus I would do it as either alignment because Grack is my friend On November 16 2013 03:30 Pandain wrote:
To give my feedback on Grack:
I do think he's very suspicious, but I would have imagined him to at least be doing some sort of analysis as scum. I mean he's definitely playing anti-town but I don't think it makes him scum. My advice would be to look for someone other then Grack who's more inherently scummy rather then just suspicious.
I will be able to ascertain Grack's alignment by day two. This is stupidly early to be planning your day2 mislynch, but considering that scum dont actually get to plan a mislynch Day 1(short of electing scum into the mayor position) I'm not ruling it out. At any rate, this is scummy to be keeping options open like this where he has carte blanche to accuse Grack. What? How is this anything? I didn't know Grack's alignment, I still didn't know until after BC flipped and now I'm confident he's town. I'm not going to just say he's scum if I don't know if he was. I thought I was pretty qualified to comment on his alignment based on meta and I was getting an uneasy feeling and thus was sharing it with the thread.
He's trying to "confirm" himself town: On November 16 2013 03:11 Pandain wrote:
I'm wondering if I should run for mayor if I can confirm myself as town
mmmm I dont know what this refers to. Maybe the mason bit? On November 16 2013 08:58 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 21:36 yamato77 wrote:
lonemeow hasn't posted in the thread yet masoned me
interesting thought process Did he really I'm also a mason Why would he think that confirms him as town? Especially with the number of masons floating about. There is no way for this to confirm anyone imo and the fact that he's trying to use this as evidence that he's town is scummy. VE pointed it out during the night: On November 17 2013 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 11:06 Pandain wrote:On November 17 2013 11:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yes that guy is equally not suspicious. That's why I'm having a hard time here. I'll out them before the night is up I think. That's probably the best way. I agree with that, though I'm interested in what's happening. If they're really really not suspicious then I wouldn't out them honestly. No reason to give scum more information; reason I suggest it is because me and lone are already known, so the two remaining would only be one more role that scum would know vs possibly one more scum that we would find. In this post Pandain slips that he knows that scum only have one mason. You're welcome guys. I'll be back before dawn. I misread thread and didn't realize that mafia has masons. So that was my way of confirming myself as town. I wouldn't bullshit a lie as scum anyway because bullshit lies = scum, so this also doesn't mean anything.
On November 16 2013 09:01 Pandain wrote:
While I like that and think it shows town, I'm going to reread OP and then thread and then decide who to mason I'd like to confirmation-bias this post into "Look at all the activity I'm (planning on) doing. I'm so town!"
On November 16 2013 15:03 Pandain wrote:
Posting your notes why? Trying to show your townie mess? Now scum can react to your notes mig Scum-slips aren't supposed to be a thing...but Pandain knows mig is town based on this post. No I was pointing out the fallacy of a town mig posting his notes.
First, here's pandains early read on storr On November 15 2013 12:02 Pandain wrote:Mocsta I disagree with you. I think Storr could be scum, but it's not certain yet and your reasons are pretty weak. You say he plays the noob card, but he did it in regards to "why not vote a noob like me mayor  " which doesn't help his cause which is what scum would normally do. Not inconceivable he just did it inherently but doesn't mean he's scum for that. Second I think you nitpick too much, he said he was still going to hunt for scum, hunt for scum is the same as hunting even when he said RNG, I think that's a bit too suspicious to say for a mayor canidateship. "I disagree with you Mocsta, but you're right" What lol. Yeah I thought he went too far. Guess what, he's scum and he did. I thought there were reasons for Storr to be scum but they weren't as strong as Mocsta made it seem. He calls me and storr scum here (moreso me, but still) + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2013 11:11 Pandain wrote:Yes I'm a mason. I don't think it's unlikely for there to be two, or even three masons however. I think Hopeless is scum and Storr is scum for continually playing the newbie card so much it hurts. Show nested quote +On November 16 2013 07:31 Hopeless1der wrote:more excuses for my activity incoming. Rogers fixed my internet. Now I'm going out to start my weekend. gg.
I read up on HolyFlare. I can see why rayn is pissing himself with rage. I can also see why HF would say "town read". Rayn looks better imo, but I dont see anything malicious about HF. I wonder why Matt ignored his questions about me. Maybe he only takes request from VE. Still dont know who to call scum Bolded useless and scummy because it's a statement that a townie probably doesn't need to make becasue he simply wouldn't have an opinion, why a scum would post that because he's afraid of getting called out. Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 08:34 Hopeless1der wrote:
you lost me there storr...come again? useless Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 08:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
That's not much of a running platform yam. useless useless he's usually not useless To top it off he made an excuse for not being active later on. While that's not proof in itself it doesn't help him. and then he's slowly backing off his storr read in a haze of wish-wash On November 16 2013 11:13 Pandain wrote:
Storr continually plays the newbie card and yet ran for mayor, then backed out quickly and keeps playing newbie card. Doesn't make sense to me unless he's trying to play a certain way. Like his first game with me he was semi-guns blazing. What happened to this game? We end up at this post, trying to direct yamato on who to lynch: On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote:
Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor. This completely clashes with his previous scumread on Storr. The extended duration of storr being scummy results in storr being townie? Maybe I should go back to making excuses for activity and lurking... [red] I used the word "good" in terms of "good lynch".
On November 17 2013 03:03 Pandain wrote:
I think Rayn is scum, yes. I also now think Mig is scum. I think Vayne is scum too he's playing like in ##.
If anyone were to vote those, especially the last two, I would support them.
Downgrading my reads of Hopeless since I guess I'll wait more for him and also still think Storr is playing so weird yet need to think about what it means. So a bunch of stuff in this post. No detailed reads, Wish-wash on me, Storr is back on the table. Mig, who he inadvertently called town earlier, is now scum, and rayne/Vayne come out of nowhere as scumreads. This post screams scum to me. Pandain is all over the place and there is nothing to hold him to if he wants to pursue any other read, he keeps giving himself outs beforehand. [red] No it's a bunch of misinterpetation for you. At this point, I thought Mig and Storr were scum. You thought I thought Mig was town because you assumed I was scum and scum slipped that he was town. You also misinterrpeted me and Storr. I'm sorry that I don't give an abstract before telling you every scum read I have in regards to Rayn and Vayne, and if that's the only actual somewhat legit thing you have, that's not the best thing in the world. On November 17 2013 01:12 Pandain wrote:
I think moc is very clearly town. These are the kinds of cases he makes which don't make that much sense. He's putting in effort too into developing his cases Association-scum-tell --> More association scumtell: (open nested quotes) On November 17 2013 04:49 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 04:36 Grackaroni wrote:On November 17 2013 04:32 Pandain wrote:
Grack do you think I'm town I'm engaging Grackapack Do you think Mocsta is scum? No I think he's town but you should be able to tell I'm town by now Of note, Pandain has apparently come to the conclusion that Grack is town at this point. No I didn't, that was in reference to Mocsta who I thought was town
+ Show Spoiler +On November 17 2013 10:20 Pandain wrote:I still think Storrzerg is suspicious, I simply found others who I might be more confident in. Namely Vayne and Rayn and BH. Yes I do think he would. That's the worst thing and why I favor a Rayn lynch first. However even though I think he would do it as town I find it distinctly anti-town as it would motivate trackers to counter-claim. That is what I'm caught up on and he never addressed it. Mocsta in my previous games I think he's always been town. I don't know what his scum play would look like but it's not this. To be frank, bad reads with a lot of effort with weird arguments are making me think he's town. This is what he's done in previous games. Scum try to hide from doing obvious bad arguments and the Mocsta post was unforced and bad. All this is making me think he's town. And yes the effort does help him though I don't think he couldn't do it as scum. That was my first thought. re-reading him his non-analysis cases make me lean towards scum, especially this post Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 23:55 Mocsta wrote:On November 15 2013 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 15 2013 23:51 Mocsta wrote:On November 15 2013 23:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:I mean: the risak of losing a town BC far exceeds the gain from losing a scum BC, this early on in my opinion. this is pretty bad.. BC could be scum, but you aren't even trying to interact with him to develop the read further.
it comes down to asset management.
BC is a highly respected vet. let's entertain you and say he is scum.
there are still 5 others out there, 4 if you include storrzerg. ...but this is pretty good. ??? a day1 town BC loss is a massive win for scum. if he is scum and lynched. course its a good win fie town, but the team still has 5 members and can continue as before. I think in this scenario, the benefit of a town vet outweighs a scum vet. its why people say leave marv and palmar to day 2 or 3 regardless of performance. BC fits into that grouping. It's bad because we lynch BC if he is scum and we don't lynch him if he is town. The argument of weighing the pros and cons of lynching him is nonsense. there's a difference thinking someone is scum and wanting to lynch them. I'm not going to say anything else on the matter. we can agree to disagree. but I definitely don't think he would have been a good lynch today or a good lynch tomorrow. I don't think he'll ever buss much because if he does he'll be alone by the end and a sole scum Mocsta should be easy to find anyway. Who knows when mocsta decided to use his vig, but this looks bad. "storr is still suspicious, but I have other scumreads. Scum-mocsta will be easy to find" Fast-forward to NK's, storr flips town to Scum-Vig-Mocsta and Mocsta has also been vigged by some awesome townie [red] I don't think this actually comes to a real argument so I don't have anything to say because it's extremely circumstanial and relies on you insinuating outside information.
BH's tracker/assassin claim. Initially, Pandain is all questions about BH's claim: On November 17 2013 04:19 Pandain wrote:What is this then. You thought it was a joke? On November 17 2013 04:20 Pandain wrote:
Is it a real claim BH On November 17 2013 04:47 Pandain wrote:
He's literally said it's a real claim Rayn.
On November 17 2013 04:49 Pandain wrote:
So you think he's town and not tracker? Is that your position? He never states his own position on BH that I could find. There are some hypotheticals that allow him to say {if BH/then Rayne} but nothing concrete. At the next mention, BH is now scum: + Show Spoiler +On November 18 2013 08:19 Pandain wrote:
BH needs to get lynched tomorrow.
The fact he's just started to get really active at night doesn't prove anything actually. Scum or town BH would start being active now.
Instead it's more important to realize he has been effectively afk during the thread with no real thread presence except defending himself and that is pretty unacceptable. His tracker claim is absoltely awful play as town and okay play as scum.
He varies between being active and always posting whenever he's mentioned and then not posting at all besides. Which is pretty suspicious to me.
While I'll agree the claim makes sense compared to his previous crumbs, he claimed 6 hours before mayor lynch would even be decided. Which doesn't make sense from a town perspective who wants to win, who wouldn't claim a blue role unless he was then going to do something with it.
BH claimed tracker and then didn't do anything with it except with his defense. This contrasts with his Heavyweight claim where he did claim early(did he? Can't remember how early) and then he pushed and used his town prescence to get a scum claim. BH's claim doesn't make sense from a town perspective.
Him defending his claim actually makes it twice as worse.
He comes back night one and then has a scum read on Grack. Great. okay That's almost a day later with little to no comment from Pandain about BH. Lets the thread work themselves up about BH fakeclaiming and then allows Pandain to get on board. It is a very over-explained read to me. My reads on BH and Rayn varied greatly. At first I thought that BH was scum, and Rayn was scum. Then I wasn't sure but was sure one of them was.
I'm running out of steam to finish Pandains filter properly, so some short points from pages 9-12 of Pandains filter: - I'm not convinced BH is scum, he may actually be an assassin. Pandain wish-washes over BH being tracker/assassin/scum and how all his reads are out to lunch if he's wrong about BH being scum. All the while he's confusing things by bringing up previous claims that BH has done without reaching conclusions. No I always had a conclusion, it was just wrong alot - Mig is now a STRONG town-read. Mig's notes should be taken down/privatized but he's now town for something that he was initially town/then scum for. Mig was scum until I found that he had kept updating his notes, and that made him a strong town read in my eyes - Finds meta reasons to show that Mocsta would not have bussed Grack, but Grack isnt a strong townread. Seems strange that grack isnt in his list of townies. Don't know what you're referencing, but I was never really sure that Grack was town before this. + Show Spoiler +On November 19 2013 15:11 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 15:07 LoneMeow wrote:
Pandain, you wanted Mig lynched earlier, has your read on him changed and if so, what made that happen? I think Mig is extremely solidly town. His notes page he linked previously is online and still visible to actually see in fact. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag5xQ7DQZXySdGlfcWVTaE5qbUJ3Wm91TUFGSFJsS0E&usp=sharingThe fact he is updating these without flaunting his notes or mentioning them leads me to believe they're honest notes. Furthermore, Mig doesn't pull these kinds of meta tricks nor would he have time to(in my opinion playing with him in Whiteflag). He has constantly updated them, changed reads, and the reasons are valid enough. Mig and SS are my strongest town reads.
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On November 20 2013 04:21 Hopeless1der wrote:##Unvote: Blazinghand
##Vote PandainI'll gladly switch back/support either for the double lynch tomorrow. However, I'm much more convinced on Pandain than BH atm. I could believe BH is an assassin. I can't believe Pandain is anything but scum. + Show Spoiler +So first, there is the whole "Vote Kush for mayor" that people were getting on Grack's case about. Pandain was right there with him, the Grackapack going strong. Except it wasnt that strong, and Pandain was just trolling around for the hell of it. The trolling isnt really alignment indicative, but following Gracks lead is. Consider how hard Mocsta pushed Grack, and now BH is doing the same. (BC too, but I'm not convinced he's scum) Pandain's early game hesitance to call Grack scum looks fishy: Except me and Grack had already informally planned to campaign for Kush, see before the game. I was going to make a post for Kush, in fact I was in the process of making a post, just mine was longer so it took longer to post. Plus I would do it as either alignment because Grack is my friend On November 16 2013 03:30 Pandain wrote:
To give my feedback on Grack:
I do think he's very suspicious, but I would have imagined him to at least be doing some sort of analysis as scum. I mean he's definitely playing anti-town but I don't think it makes him scum. My advice would be to look for someone other then Grack who's more inherently scummy rather then just suspicious.
I will be able to ascertain Grack's alignment by day two. This is stupidly early to be planning your day2 mislynch, but considering that scum dont actually get to plan a mislynch Day 1(short of electing scum into the mayor position) I'm not ruling it out. At any rate, this is scummy to be keeping options open like this where he has carte blanche to accuse Grack. What? How is this anything? I didn't know Grack's alignment, I still didn't know until after BC flipped and now I'm confident he's town. I'm not going to just say he's scum if I don't know if he was. I thought I was pretty qualified to comment on his alignment based on meta and I was getting an uneasy feeling and thus was sharing it with the thread.
He's trying to "confirm" himself town: On November 16 2013 03:11 Pandain wrote:
I'm wondering if I should run for mayor if I can confirm myself as town
mmmm I dont know what this refers to. Maybe the mason bit? On November 16 2013 08:58 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 21:36 yamato77 wrote:
lonemeow hasn't posted in the thread yet masoned me
interesting thought process Did he really I'm also a mason Why would he think that confirms him as town? Especially with the number of masons floating about. There is no way for this to confirm anyone imo and the fact that he's trying to use this as evidence that he's town is scummy. VE pointed it out during the night: On November 17 2013 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 11:06 Pandain wrote:On November 17 2013 11:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yes that guy is equally not suspicious. That's why I'm having a hard time here. I'll out them before the night is up I think. That's probably the best way. I agree with that, though I'm interested in what's happening. If they're really really not suspicious then I wouldn't out them honestly. No reason to give scum more information; reason I suggest it is because me and lone are already known, so the two remaining would only be one more role that scum would know vs possibly one more scum that we would find. In this post Pandain slips that he knows that scum only have one mason. You're welcome guys. I'll be back before dawn. I misread thread and didn't realize that mafia has masons. So that was my way of confirming myself as town. I wouldn't bullshit a lie as scum anyway because bullshit lies = scum, so this also doesn't mean anything.
On November 16 2013 09:01 Pandain wrote:
While I like that and think it shows town, I'm going to reread OP and then thread and then decide who to mason I'd like to confirmation-bias this post into "Look at all the activity I'm (planning on) doing. I'm so town!"
On November 16 2013 15:03 Pandain wrote:
Posting your notes why? Trying to show your townie mess? Now scum can react to your notes mig Scum-slips aren't supposed to be a thing...but Pandain knows mig is town based on this post. No I was pointing out the fallacy of a town mig posting his notes.
First, here's pandains early read on storr On November 15 2013 12:02 Pandain wrote:Mocsta I disagree with you. I think Storr could be scum, but it's not certain yet and your reasons are pretty weak. You say he plays the noob card, but he did it in regards to "why not vote a noob like me mayor " which doesn't help his cause which is what scum would normally do. Not inconceivable he just did it inherently but doesn't mean he's scum for that. Second I think you nitpick too much, he said he was still going to hunt for scum, hunt for scum is the same as hunting even when he said RNG, I think that's a bit too suspicious to say for a mayor canidateship. "I disagree with you Mocsta, but you're right" What lol. Yeah I thought he went too far. Guess what, he's scum and he did. I thought there were reasons for Storr to be scum but they weren't as strong as Mocsta made it seem. He calls me and storr scum here (moreso me, but still) + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2013 11:11 Pandain wrote:Yes I'm a mason. I don't think it's unlikely for there to be two, or even three masons however. I think Hopeless is scum and Storr is scum for continually playing the newbie card so much it hurts. Show nested quote +On November 16 2013 07:31 Hopeless1der wrote:more excuses for my activity incoming. Rogers fixed my internet. Now I'm going out to start my weekend. gg.
I read up on HolyFlare. I can see why rayn is pissing himself with rage. I can also see why HF would say "town read". Rayn looks better imo, but I dont see anything malicious about HF. I wonder why Matt ignored his questions about me. Maybe he only takes request from VE. Still dont know who to call scum Bolded useless and scummy because it's a statement that a townie probably doesn't need to make becasue he simply wouldn't have an opinion, why a scum would post that because he's afraid of getting called out. Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 08:34 Hopeless1der wrote:
you lost me there storr...come again? useless Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 08:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
That's not much of a running platform yam. useless useless he's usually not useless To top it off he made an excuse for not being active later on. While that's not proof in itself it doesn't help him. and then he's slowly backing off his storr read in a haze of wish-wash On November 16 2013 11:13 Pandain wrote:
Storr continually plays the newbie card and yet ran for mayor, then backed out quickly and keeps playing newbie card. Doesn't make sense to me unless he's trying to play a certain way. Like his first game with me he was semi-guns blazing. What happened to this game? We end up at this post, trying to direct yamato on who to lynch: On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote:
Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor. This completely clashes with his previous scumread on Storr. The extended duration of storr being scummy results in storr being townie? Maybe I should go back to making excuses for activity and lurking... I used the word "good" in terms of "good lynch".
On November 17 2013 03:03 Pandain wrote:
I think Rayn is scum, yes. I also now think Mig is scum. I think Vayne is scum too he's playing like in ##.
If anyone were to vote those, especially the last two, I would support them.
Downgrading my reads of Hopeless since I guess I'll wait more for him and also still think Storr is playing so weird yet need to think about what it means. So a bunch of stuff in this post. No detailed reads, Wish-wash on me, Storr is back on the table. Mig, who he inadvertently called town earlier, is now scum, and rayne/Vayne come out of nowhere as scumreads. This post screams scum to me. Pandain is all over the place and there is nothing to hold him to if he wants to pursue any other read, he keeps giving himself outs beforehand. No it's a bunch of misinterpetation for you. At this point, I thought Mig and Storr were scum. You thought I thought Mig was town because you assumed I was scum and scum slipped that he was town. You also misinterrpeted me and Storr. On November 17 2013 01:12 Pandain wrote:
I think moc is very clearly town. These are the kinds of cases he makes which don't make that much sense. He's putting in effort too into developing his cases Association-scum-tell --> More association scumtell: (open nested quotes) On November 17 2013 04:49 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 04:36 Grackaroni wrote:On November 17 2013 04:32 Pandain wrote:
Grack do you think I'm town I'm engaging Grackapack Do you think Mocsta is scum? No I think he's town but you should be able to tell I'm town by now Of note, Pandain has apparently come to the conclusion that Grack is town at this point. No I didn't, that was in reference to Mocsta who I thought was town
+ Show Spoiler +On November 17 2013 10:20 Pandain wrote:I still think Storrzerg is suspicious, I simply found others who I might be more confident in. Namely Vayne and Rayn and BH. Yes I do think he would. That's the worst thing and why I favor a Rayn lynch first. However even though I think he would do it as town I find it distinctly anti-town as it would motivate trackers to counter-claim. That is what I'm caught up on and he never addressed it. Mocsta in my previous games I think he's always been town. I don't know what his scum play would look like but it's not this. To be frank, bad reads with a lot of effort with weird arguments are making me think he's town. This is what he's done in previous games. Scum try to hide from doing obvious bad arguments and the Mocsta post was unforced and bad. All this is making me think he's town. And yes the effort does help him though I don't think he couldn't do it as scum. That was my first thought. re-reading him his non-analysis cases make me lean towards scum, especially this post Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 23:55 Mocsta wrote:On November 15 2013 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 15 2013 23:51 Mocsta wrote:On November 15 2013 23:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:I mean: the risak of losing a town BC far exceeds the gain from losing a scum BC, this early on in my opinion. this is pretty bad.. BC could be scum, but you aren't even trying to interact with him to develop the read further.
it comes down to asset management.
BC is a highly respected vet. let's entertain you and say he is scum.
there are still 5 others out there, 4 if you include storrzerg. ...but this is pretty good. ??? a day1 town BC loss is a massive win for scum. if he is scum and lynched. course its a good win fie town, but the team still has 5 members and can continue as before. I think in this scenario, the benefit of a town vet outweighs a scum vet. its why people say leave marv and palmar to day 2 or 3 regardless of performance. BC fits into that grouping. It's bad because we lynch BC if he is scum and we don't lynch him if he is town. The argument of weighing the pros and cons of lynching him is nonsense. there's a difference thinking someone is scum and wanting to lynch them. I'm not going to say anything else on the matter. we can agree to disagree. but I definitely don't think he would have been a good lynch today or a good lynch tomorrow. I don't think he'll ever buss much because if he does he'll be alone by the end and a sole scum Mocsta should be easy to find anyway. Who knows when mocsta decided to use his vig, but this looks bad. "storr is still suspicious, but I have other scumreads. Scum-mocsta will be easy to find" Fast-forward to NK's, storr flips town to Scum-Vig-Mocsta and Mocsta has also been vigged by some awesome townie I don't think this actually comes to a real argument so I don't have anything to say because it's extremely circumstanial and relies on you insinuating outside information.
BH's tracker/assassin claim. Initially, Pandain is all questions about BH's claim: On November 17 2013 04:19 Pandain wrote:What is this then. You thought it was a joke? On November 17 2013 04:20 Pandain wrote:
Is it a real claim BH On November 17 2013 04:47 Pandain wrote:
He's literally said it's a real claim Rayn.
On November 17 2013 04:49 Pandain wrote:
So you think he's town and not tracker? Is that your position? He never states his own position on BH that I could find. There are some hypotheticals that allow him to say {if BH/then Rayne} but nothing concrete. At the next mention, BH is now scum: + Show Spoiler +On November 18 2013 08:19 Pandain wrote:
BH needs to get lynched tomorrow.
The fact he's just started to get really active at night doesn't prove anything actually. Scum or town BH would start being active now.
Instead it's more important to realize he has been effectively afk during the thread with no real thread presence except defending himself and that is pretty unacceptable. His tracker claim is absoltely awful play as town and okay play as scum.
He varies between being active and always posting whenever he's mentioned and then not posting at all besides. Which is pretty suspicious to me.
While I'll agree the claim makes sense compared to his previous crumbs, he claimed 6 hours before mayor lynch would even be decided. Which doesn't make sense from a town perspective who wants to win, who wouldn't claim a blue role unless he was then going to do something with it.
BH claimed tracker and then didn't do anything with it except with his defense. This contrasts with his Heavyweight claim where he did claim early(did he? Can't remember how early) and then he pushed and used his town prescence to get a scum claim. BH's claim doesn't make sense from a town perspective.
Him defending his claim actually makes it twice as worse.
He comes back night one and then has a scum read on Grack. Great. okay That's almost a day later with little to no comment from Pandain about BH. Lets the thread work themselves up about BH fakeclaiming and then allows Pandain to get on board. It is a very over-explained read to me. My reads on BH and Rayn varied greatly. At first I thought that BH was scum, and Rayn was scum. Then I wasn't sure but was sure one of them was.
I'm running out of steam to finish Pandains filter properly, so some short points from pages 9-12 of Pandains filter: - I'm not convinced BH is scum, he may actually be an assassin. Pandain wish-washes over BH being tracker/assassin/scum and how all his reads are out to lunch if he's wrong about BH being scum. All the while he's confusing things by bringing up previous claims that BH has done without reaching conclusions. No I always had a conclusion, it was just wrong alot - Mig is now a STRONG town-read. Mig's notes should be taken down/privatized but he's now town for something that he was initially town/then scum for. Mig was scum until I found that he had kept updating his notes, and that made him a strong town read in my eyes - Finds meta reasons to show that Mocsta would not have bussed Grack, but Grack isnt a strong townread. Seems strange that grack isnt in his list of townies. Don't know what you're referencing, but I was never really sure that Grack was town before this. + Show Spoiler +On November 19 2013 15:11 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 15:07 LoneMeow wrote:
Pandain, you wanted Mig lynched earlier, has your read on him changed and if so, what made that happen? I think Mig is extremely solidly town. His notes page he linked previously is online and still visible to actually see in fact. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag5xQ7DQZXySdGlfcWVTaE5qbUJ3Wm91TUFGSFJsS0E&usp=sharingThe fact he is updating these without flaunting his notes or mentioning them leads me to believe they're honest notes. Furthermore, Mig doesn't pull these kinds of meta tricks nor would he have time to(in my opinion playing with him in Whiteflag). He has constantly updated them, changed reads, and the reasons are valid enough. Mig and SS are my strongest town reads.
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On November 24 2013 14:07 austinmcc wrote:
I promise I read stuff. There's a lot in those cases that I throw out, including some side-stuff that is unimportant like VE saying pandain scum-slipped by noting there was only one mafia mason (absolutely can't be true if pandain mafia).
But the storrzerg comments DID just jump back and forth between townie/scummy.
I don't doubt that you read lol. What are the questionable things you keep mentioning about Vayne?
The bulk of your argument seems to be based on Vayne claiming mad hatter and BC forgetting to mention vayne when discussing much kp town has which seems dumb to me. If he was in a QT with Vayne I'm sure vayne would be in there blabbing about his hatter claim in the QT so he's not exactly more likely to forget Vayne when talking about that. Aside from that how frequently do scum breadcrumb a role from the start of the game all game long and make themselves stuck to that claim? I'd say close to never.
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On November 24 2013 14:03 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 10:26 Pandain wrote:On November 17 2013 10:26 Grackaroni wrote:
@pandain: I'm just confused with what you actually believe about Storrzerg. First you said that him using the newb card was scummy and then you said that he's probably not scum because scum wouldn't try to run for mayor and use the newb card like he did.
Did he keep using it after people called him out for it or is there something else I am missing? No I thought he was more scummy for using the newb card while running for mayor Actually you are right Austin. This needs to be explained.
If someone claims they're newb while running for mayor that doesn't make sense at all. It's a contradiction in both how you perceive yourself in the game and how you want to play it. And contradictions, especially that kind, usually means scum.
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it's not the fact that I breadcrumbed a role from the beginning grack, it's the fact that I breadcrumbed a role of which I am the only one in the game. Austin thinks I like magically got lucky and picked the perfect role to claim? I'm just LOL'ing at this game at this point
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On November 24 2013 14:23 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 14:03 Grackaroni wrote:On November 17 2013 10:26 Pandain wrote:On November 17 2013 10:26 Grackaroni wrote:
@pandain: I'm just confused with what you actually believe about Storrzerg. First you said that him using the newb card was scummy and then you said that he's probably not scum because scum wouldn't try to run for mayor and use the newb card like he did.
Did he keep using it after people called him out for it or is there something else I am missing? No I thought he was more scummy for using the newb card while running for mayor Actually you are right Austin. This needs to be explained. If someone claims they're newb while running for mayor that doesn't make sense at all. It's a contradiction in both how you perceive yourself in the game and how you want to play it. And contradictions, especially that kind, usually means scum.
My reading comprehension is bad lol. I thought you switched to thinking he was town.
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Honestly we should just lynch everybody that voted for rayn yesterday, everyone in favor of that plan? Why would any town be on rayn
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On November 24 2013 14:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
Honestly we should just lynch everybody that voted for rayn yesterday, everyone in favor of that plan? Why would any town be on rayn
Because 1: he was sufficiently hostile
2: he was the reason I quit reading much of the thread and was thrown into confusion multiple times and almost quit the game with risk of modkill/ban I was that messed up
3: Headache
4: He had confirmation bias so bad that I concluded he was tunneling out of scum motivation. He was totally unwilling to listen to anything.
5: Human error.
6: aren't there too many people on him to be all scum? let me check that...
Currently I am beginning to be convinced VayneAuthority and Onegu are scum.
I do not think thrawn is scum Austin.
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Austin,
Have you seen "Lifeboat"?
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On November 24 2013 14:21 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 14:07 austinmcc wrote:
I promise I read stuff. There's a lot in those cases that I throw out, including some side-stuff that is unimportant like VE saying pandain scum-slipped by noting there was only one mafia mason (absolutely can't be true if pandain mafia).
But the storrzerg comments DID just jump back and forth between townie/scummy. I don't doubt that you read lol. What are the questionable things you keep mentioning about Vayne? The bulk of your argument seems to be based on Vayne claiming mad hatter and BC forgetting to mention vayne when discussing much kp town has which seems dumb to me. If he was in a QT with Vayne I'm sure vayne would be in there blabbing about his hatter claim in the QT so he's not exactly more likely to forget Vayne when talking about that. Aside from that how frequently do scum breadcrumb a role from the start of the game all game long and make themselves stuck to that claim? I'd say close to never. I'll do a post on it later today or sometime. He's not a lynch for today, I'm just frustrated that he can turn sideways and disappear and nobody looks at him. it's a combo of:
- BC mentions the other KP claimers, not vayn. It's not just this. I read BC's post, especially when he flips scum, as ACTUALLY thinking town had a bunch of KP this game and he hated that idea. They have 1 or more than 1 medic(s), but still...lotta town KP. But who does he leave off the town KP list entirely? Vayne. He's posting about town KP, why we can't have 3 town KP sources, and he entirely omits the guy who keeps mentioning how many crumbs he left and how his claim is airtight. BC read the thread, saw rayn's claim, but entirely missed Vayne's? And once rayn says his claim was fake, BC doesn't address whether artanis/vayne/Mig can all be town KP sources, despite arguing previously we couldn't have artanis/rayn/mig.
- His "confirming" himself based off mocsta read wonky to me last night - + Show Spoiler +On November 18 2013 10:26 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 15:24 Mocsta wrote:
VA seriously
That is not cool.
I don't five a fuck what alignment u r.
mocsta scumslips that I am town here, so if you push me from here I will just think you are dumb unfortunately. boop. That's it. That one comment, after VA posted that giant wall of link text. But man oh man mocsta scumslips that VA is town, The End.
- His read on me was troubling to me, watch it evolve:+ Show Spoiler +On November 17 2013 01:19 VayneAuthority wrote:
I've definitely been keeping an eye on him as well, austinmcc looks suspicious to say the least. His random questions to 3 specific players that really had no connections to each other or we're even the main topics really rubbed me as strange Suspicious. npnp, fine read On November 18 2013 03:58 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 03:56 Koshi wrote:On November 18 2013 03:55 VayneAuthority wrote:
aight im here, we all know im gonna get shot by a vig so if anyone has any questions shoot Is ausstin or Holyflare scum? austin I have currently right outside the spectrum of my initial scum reads, if one of them flips town I would go to him as scum yes. Holyflare I honestly haven't paid attention to much tbh, I saw rayn was attacking him so I just let him do that and see what happens. Just outside initial scum reads, npnp On November 19 2013 03:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
dat list post
town: Thrawn, Grack, Me, Rayne, Risen, Mr. CC, Artanis, Oats
Slightly town: Koshi, Coag, Pandain, Supersoft
Slightly scum: BC, VE, austinmcc, kush
Not Town: LM, BH
Unknowns: mattchew, mig, onegu, hopeless, stutters, HF, Slam
Slightly scum On November 20 2013 04:00 VayneAuthority wrote:
Warning: Conjecture ahead
So I did a little research on the timestamps of when SS announced he would kill mocsta as mayor and the votes that followed after that.
Supersoft says he would kill mocsta at 9:57, says he will filter mocsta at 9:47
Austinmcc switches his vote to supersoft at 9:23
Then switches back to VE at 9:47 as well.
I was hoping it would be a little more conclusive but he would have had to change his vote in the same minute for this to have any merit...anyways something to keep in mind for austin.
Here's a thing on austin but there's no conclusion and I don't know if this is scummy or not at all and he doesn't say if he thinks it's scummy or not. On November 20 2013 10:06 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 03:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
dat list post
town: Thrawn, Grack, Me, Rayne, Risen, Mr. CC, Artanis, Oats
Slightly town: Koshi, Coag, Pandain, Supersoft
Slightly scum: BC, VE, austinmcc, kush
Not Town: LM, BH
Unknowns: mattchew, mig, onegu, hopeless, stutters, HF, Slam
LM and austin double lynch sounds good to me tomorrow I'm still slightly scummy, but I'm definitely a D3 lynch, LM and myself, not BC. On November 20 2013 10:31 VayneAuthority wrote:
scum ran for mayor from my calculations...they just didn't have a good candidate on their team. If I'm correct look at mocsta and BC who each got 1 and 2 votes respectively...oh they tried. BC was a scum mayor candidate, sayeth VA On November 21 2013 11:20 VayneAuthority wrote:
w/e then id also be down to lynch into pandain/austin, definitely one scum there Lynch pandain/austin. Forget LM, forget BC, we lynch pandain/austin, a slight town and a slight scum read On November 21 2013 13:44 VayneAuthority wrote:
Only if for some reason you believe there can't be 2 mad hatters, when we have 20 masons running around and 50 other PRs. so I don't see why rayn's claim has to be fake. NOT ABOUT ME, but look. rayn could be a hatter, because we could totally have 2 hatters. This is 1000000% the opposite of the reason, I presume, that he wants to lynch pandain and I (assume we have 0-1 veterans) On November 23 2013 09:48 VayneAuthority wrote:
I still think the safest double lynches would be pandain/austin or BC/mig because there is mutually exclusive scum in both of these. I am pretty sure about that Still fine with lynching pandain/austin. Or cool with lynching BC/mig When I asked him why I was scum early for him, he wouldn't respond. When I continued, he said it was because I voted to lynch rayn yesterday. That is NOT a reason for him to have wanted to lynch me D3, it's not a reason to lynch into pandain/austin, and it's not a reason he found me slightly scummy back on D2. THIS IS IMPORTANT, AND REALLY WHAT GOT ME A LITTLE TUNNELED ON HIM. WHEN ASKED FOR REASONING ON HIS EARLY SCUMREAD ON ME, HE REPLIED THAT I WAS SCUM FOR A REASON THAT HAD NOT YET OCCURRED. HE HAS YET TO PROVIDE ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR WHY I WAS SCUM BEFORE THE RAYN LYNCH. There is NOTHING in the thread from him about me beyond that stuff, while he DOES talk about LM, about BC, about some other folks. I'm a top lynch for him yesterday with NO reasoning. And the only reasoning I can infer from his posts is that he wants to lynch pandain/austinmcc yesterday. He floats this idea MULTIPLE times, despite it lacking LM (his top scumread), BC (the thread's top scumread and a scumread of his), and DESPITE ARGUING THAT WE COULD HAVE TWO HATTERS.
- His bombs. + Show Spoiler +(1) He puts a bomb on OOHCHILD N2, because OOHCHILD was "shitting up the thread" at some point. + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2013 01:55 VayneAuthority wrote:
kush is such a bad player that he made me waste one on him when he started shitting up the thread, I changed it last second. . I don't know when OOHCHILD started shitting up the thread, he never explains, and OOHCHILD LOOKED TOWNIE ENOUGH TO MAFIA THAT THEY SHOT HIM IN THE FACE. (2) He puts a bomb on BC N2, despite artanis claiming he was going to vigi BC, because - + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2013 01:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
Scum doctors, I wanted to stack Kp. . Maybe. But here's the thing. LM is a STRONGER scumread for him. Why doesn't he just bomb LM, and if he gets killed, his STRONGEST scumread dies? Instead, he bombs BC, a slightly scumread according to his list, in order to stack KP. Putting a bomb on LM means LM, his strongest scumread, dies. Putting a bomb on BC means that BC, not his strongest scumread, dies through a medic OR gets hit with 2 KP when 1 would do it. How does this decision make sense? You risk overkill on not your strongest scumread, just in case of medics, when you could have bombed a second target and skirted the medic issue altogether. He explains because - + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2013 01:58 VayneAuthority wrote:
Also I never had a bomb on LM. figured we were lynching him today . Which, maybe. But he's so worried about protection on BC that he drops his bomb there, which only helps kill BC if VA actually dies last night. Otherwise, BC is protected, BC lives, and we 100% lynch BC the next day, not LM. VA's reason for putting a bomb on LM relies on BC dying overnight. Which would rely on no protection or VA dying. I don't think this placement makes FULL sense. Some sense, yes, but...I don't find it to be the most sensible action and I'm confused by it.
- He's one of two people to vote BC super early yesterday and then slide off without getting back on (The other was rayn). This fits a POSSIBLE pattern of scum thinking BC was dead, but town wasting a lot of the day and BC half-convincing a lot of people, and so going "Oh wow, BC actually isn't 100% dead after we RBed artanis. We can totally save him!" Now, THIS IS IMPORTANT. READ THIS CLOSELY. VA unvotes BC because his bomb is on BC. We don't need to lynch BC, because if mafia ever kill VA, BC will die. Open and shut case. Just N2, VA says he put his bomb on BC because he was worried about mafia medics blocking Artanis's KP. VA was worried about medics N2. But on D3, we do not need to lynch BC, because he'll die if VA dies. No medics now. No worries about medic protection despite him CLAIMING his bomb target. A mafia medic was gonna block Artanis's KP, but not good ol' VA's CLAIMED BOMB. He has entirely forget that he was worried about mafia medics, and we had not seen BC flip medic yet, so chances were still the same that they had one.
There's a rough, ranty list. The key points for me are that: - BC somehow forgets Vayne claimed KP, despite discussing our other hatter, and despite seemingly being worried about the amount of KP town had
- rayn does not have to be mafia, because town could have two hatters. But we should lynch pandain/austinmcc, because there HAS to be 1+ scum there
- When asked to explain why I was mafia BEFORE the votes yesterday + Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2013 10:11 austinmcc wrote:
(2) Vayne, you had me as mafia BEFORE these votes. I want to know why. - On N2, he puts a bomb on BC because mafia might have a medic and we need to stack KP. On D3, we don't need to lynch BC because his bomb will kill BC if mafia ever shoot VA, entirely forgetting that the whole reason he put a bomb on BC was because of worry over a mafia medic.
Someone, on D1 or something, posted a comment about how to read VA based on whether he was steering town or not. I also thought that was an interesting point, but I want to focus not on any kind of meta arguments, but about ACTUAL oddities and contradictions in his play this game.
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On November 24 2013 14:52 Alakaslam wrote:
Austin,
Have you seen "Lifeboat"? I have seen a lifeboat.
But I have not seen a movie or TV show called "Lifeboat."
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EPT
