Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account.
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs: No smurfs in here. This is a newbie game!
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here. This also means you should condense your posts when possible. 15 one-liners in 30 minutes is unacceptable.
Encryption: Don't do it.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again using the acronym (EBWOP: Edit by way of posting) if you want to clarify/correct something you just posted.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM me or the co-hosts if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Voting rules:
This game uses Plurality Lynch. The person with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. 1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: ShiaoPi. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I or my co-hosts will update vote counts whenever we get the chance. 2.5 If you change your vote, please ##Unvote before posting another vote (can be done in the same post). 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses). 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups:
This game is open to players with 3 or fewer games on TL Mafia. Signups will remain open until the game is full. If you have played more but a long time ago, I might accept. Type /in if you want to play.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made until Day 3. If a player is modkilled, they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list if possible. Type /replace if you want to be put on the replacement list. Replacements have to fulfill the same criteria as people who want to play (aka 3 games or fewer on TL Mafia).
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game. No out-of-thread communication of any sort is allowed unless cleared by the hosts. Scum will be provided a QT to communicate in, as will Masons, Hydras or shadowing players.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day-cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 02:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits: This post shamefully stolen from NMM XLVIII (with slight modifications) Thanks to pretty much every TL mafia player/host/mod/etc.
On February 20 2013 21:59 Acrofales wrote:
Newbie-specific stuff
1.It's already in the rules, but remember, no editing. If you feel you must correct your post, please make a second post to clarify your statements. You may put EBWOP ("Edit by way of post," a handy acronym invented by semioldguy) at the beginning of your post to indicate that you are clearing up a point you made. If your EBWOP post is several posts after your original, please quote your original post in your EBWOP post for the sake of clarity.
2. Only sign up if you know you will have the time available to properly play the game. It is essential that players remain active in a newbie game, so only /in if you are able to play to your fullest.
3. If there is any sort of issue, you are unsure about some mechanic, or you are just wondering if your devilish scheme is even allowed, feel free to PM me, or ask in-thread with green text. Don't feel shy; these games are meant to be a place to learn and be open.
4. Behave as gentlemen (or ladies). Things get heated here, but personal attacks will not be acceptable, and will be dealt with accordingly. Remember, this is a game; have fun and happy scumhunting!
5. Please do not talk about any ongoing games either in-game or pre-game. This can affect other games and is unacceptable. Please do not refer to outside-of- thread activity of players in this thread.
6. If you receive coaching, don't tell town about it.
Setup Information: This set-up is based off of the C9++ setup. It will be a semi-open set-up meaning that while all of the roles possible will be displayed, the amount of each role will be hidden.
Town Win Condition: Eliminate all of the anti-town players. Mafia Win Condition: Eliminate all of the Town players or reach a scenario where nothing can stop this.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Vanilla Townie. Abilities: Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Cop. Abilities: Each night phase, you may investigate one player in the game by PM'ing the mod. You will get results back in the form of Town, Antitown or No Result. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Cop. Abilities: Once at night, you may investigate a player in the game by PM'ing the mod. You will get results back in the form of Town, Antitown or No Result. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Doctor. Abilities: Each night phase, you may protect one player in the game from one nightkill. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Doctor. Abilities: Once at night, you may protect a player in the game from one nightkill. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Vigilante. Abilities: Each night, you may select a player in the game to target for a nightkill. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Vigilante. Abilities: Once at night, you may select a player in the game to target for a nightkill. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Innocent Child. Abilities: At the start of Day 1, the moderator of the game will announce you as an Innocent Child, confirming you as town. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Mason along with your partner(s) [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). Abilities: You are confirmed town to your mason partner(s) and vice versa. You are permitted to talk to your partner(s) during pregame and at nights in this [quicktopic]. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Roleblocker. Abilities: Each night, you may select a player in the game to roleblock. They will not be able to perform an action at night if they have one. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town 1-Shot Roleblocker. Abilities: Once at night, you may select a player in the game to roleblock. They will not be able to perform an action on this night if they have one. Win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). Abilities: Factional communication: You may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link]. Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill. Win condition: You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Roleblocker, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). Abilities: Factional communication: You may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link]. Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill. Roleblock: Each night phase, you individually may perform a roleblock on another player in the game. You cannot block and kill in the same night. Win condition: You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Godfather, along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). Abilities: Factional communication: You may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link]. Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill. Investigation Immunity: You appear innocent to Cop investigations. Win condition: You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Serial Killer. Abilities: Pregame you must choose to be either Investigation Immune or 1-Shot Bulletproof. Each night phase, you may select a player in the game to nightkill. Win condition: You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
On September 09 2013 16:50 Umasi wrote: so something I've noticed in the newbies I've played is people not taking advantage of their coaches frequently, and has been restated by a lot of people on the forum it seems. Is there a particular way to fix this aside from just emphasizing it a lot?
nope
E: actually a REALLY easy fix would be for each coach to be assigned like 3-4 players at the start, and the host makes 3-4 quicktopics (each a 1-on-1 quicktopic between the coach and the student) and PMs these quicktopics to each student/coach combo.
People would use coaching a lot more and games would be better.
Other things: I won't start this game until I have two one replacements available, because modkills are a frequent issue in newbie games, and I want to be prepared for them as much as possible. I'll also send confirmation pms when the game is filled and ready to begin.
On October 03 2013 11:37 Umasi wrote: YESSSS now come coach!
Narp. Actually if a whole bunch more LoL players join then I will I suppose, but I really think I have to lessen my mafia-related activities at least until my own game is finally ready.
/in When will the cop get no result back on a check? Does it happen when they are roleblocked? When every Mafia member is roleblocked does that mean they cannot kill anyone at night?
On October 03 2013 23:19 onlywonderboy wrote: I hope the random roles are a lot less...unlikely this time. I understand the basics of the format but I can't say I love it haha.
Just pay less attention to setup speculation and more to what people are saying (and especially why) and you'll do fine.
On October 03 2013 23:26 marvellosity wrote: I'd like to coach one active townie. Hit me up once the game starts.
heh, that probably means you'll need at least 3 students given how things worked out for me last game coaching
lol the only time I ever coached I had the guy carrying the scumteam tell me I flat out sucked before the game even started, but at least the scummers sort of wanted my advice? I can't imagine what town coaching is like---I feel like your inbox just sits gathering cobwebs.
As is koshi, although I want replacements, I think you've played enough games that having you replace in is a bit imbalanced. Both games I've seen you replace into you've whipped town into shape, and although they ended in scum victory, I still think you're too experienced for newbies. ty for offering though :o
On October 03 2013 22:25 E00e wrote: /in When will the cop get no result back on a check? Does it happen when they are roleblocked? When every Mafia member is roleblocked does that mean they cannot kill anyone at night?
Mafia KP is factional, and cannot be roleblocked. However if only the mafia roleblocker is alive, only he can preform the kill, and only he can roleblock, and he cannot choose to do both. On the same note, the serial killers kp can be roleblocked. The cop will get no results back when he is roleblocked.
On October 04 2013 02:41 WaveofShadow wrote: /coach if there's still room. You can put me on the team with the most TL-LoLers without putting it in the OP or something.
On October 03 2013 23:26 marvellosity wrote: I'd like to coach one active townie. Hit me up once the game starts.
heh, that probably means you'll need at least 3 students given how things worked out for me last game coaching
lol the only time I ever coached I had the guy carrying the scumteam tell me I flat out sucked before the game even started, but at least the scummers sort of wanted my advice? I can't imagine what town coaching is like---I feel like your inbox just sits gathering cobwebs.
On October 03 2013 23:26 marvellosity wrote: I'd like to coach one active townie. Hit me up once the game starts.
I'll do my best, but it's hard to pick out who the active townies will be beforehand haha. WoS request is easier to fulfill. For my organization you're going on the town coaching list ANYWAY. Also, we're set on coaches thank you guys for signing up. We need one more player to /in and two more to /replace (that aren't koshi unless we get desperate)
On October 04 2013 04:02 Marke wrote: about time to add team property team flair on tl? , there is already one on reddit/r/starcraft
All I want is Finnish flag. Team Finland is the best team!
Finnish flair should just be elfi's face
Hey as a Finn seriously fuck you.
User was temp banned for this post.
Not very often you see a Brazilian Finn. Although I could have swore he had his country listed as Korea before he signed up. Maybe I'm going a bit crazy.
On October 09 2013 01:58 istandwithmitt wrote: can i still play?
oh yeah sure, now that you're unbanned (that was you that got temp banned right?) if not then w.e you're signed up anyway
Yeah that was me. tl mods are the worst.
rofl... Dude, tl mods are close to the best mods on the interwebz. They execute perfectly what the vast majority of the people on this site find acceptable behavior.
I'd like to sign up - umasi will you take me? I've played more than 3 games, but only 2 in recent times and the rest were years ago which I barely remember anything about!
On October 09 2013 08:38 Bereft wrote: what did heavenz do to get permed?!
I'd like to sign up - umasi will you take me? I've played more than 3 games, but only 2 in recent times and the rest were years ago which I barely remember anything about!
On October 09 2013 10:18 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck his replacements and FUCK HIM + Show Spoiler +
(Just kidding I <3 you Umasi keep writing role PMs 'cause they kick ass kthx)
YEAHHHH! DOWN WITH THE POPO MODS! just kidding. fwiw i'm fine with koshi as a replacement -- town has been getting rolled by scum past few newb games , some town direction couldn't hurt in the event of modkills.
On October 09 2013 10:18 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck his replacements and FUCK HIM + Show Spoiler +
(Just kidding I <3 you Umasi keep writing role PMs 'cause they kick ass kthx)
YEAHHHH! DOWN WITH THE POPO MODS! just kidding. fwiw i'm fine with koshi as a replacement -- town has been getting rolled by scum past few newb games , some town direction couldn't hurt in the event of modkills.
It really has everything. I think it might be a good game to analyze and give pointers for newbies. But didn't end yet so the end might ruin everything :D or make it superepic. Who knows? exciting exciting.
~There will be thread silence for two hours before the game begins, you will receive your coaching qt, scum qt, alignment and role pms at some point within that two hours.
Since there are 12 hour nights and 48 hour days, and the game starts with the first Mafia kill (=night, right?), does this mean the first day starts in 12 hours plus the time Umasi posted for game start?
role pms going out, as well as QTs. Everyone will receive a role and a QT, whether it be your scum qt or the coaching qt. If you don't, please PM me. Day 1 starts in two hours
All role PMS should be out. If you did not receive one, or a coaching link to a quicktopic, please send me a PM. You can feel free to talk in your QT with your coaches/scum team, but this thread is silent. Day 1 begins in 1 hour 30 minutes.
As a disclaimer early, I think we should all agree on something. We are all newbies here, so if you fuck up or say something dumb, don't play the "oh sorry, I am new I didn't know".
Seuss is our confirmed town, we should try to organize around him. For a day 1 lynch, I think lynching some1 innactive is the best way to go. Having innactive players around just give mafia the opportunity to sit back and do nothing while town runs around screaming at each other. So give information about yourself if you can, so that others will be able to read you easy.
My stance this early is easy: I will vote for people that post nothing worthy or nothing at all, unless some1 slips. I am also more likely to vote for people that say suspicious stuff and then say "sorry I didn't know I am new"
Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.) This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
I would not necessarily vote Saga for scrum yet. At least I don't have that read yet. In like 99.65535% of these novice games (As far as I can tell), policy lynching is a thing.
While people in these matches lean towards bringing this up early on, due to the flips results from them, I'm not ready to call that on him yet.
I really want to set up a RNG. Without fully studying it (to make sure my math comes out right), this is what I come up with:
Being that there is only 13 players; If there is 11 "for sure town (all listed town/blue roles)" vs 3 "for sure scum roles" That leaves me with a 27% chance to lynch scum with RNG.
If there is 10 "for sure town" vs 3 "for sure scum" it's 30% If I take Suess and myself into account for confirmed town it is: 33% and 38% (rounded) respectively. I'm not for certain, but 30+ % chance for randomly tagging a scum role on day 1 with no other option is going to be a lot better than a "afk" lynch.
Well, I read through my last post, And then decide how bad that thought is.
Judging by what you just said July, a 100% GUESS at a "afk lynch" is better than a 40% chance to land a scrum roll on the first day within the first 4 hours.
My only question is; Are you being serious right now? Because trying to throw off town that hard would seem pretty scummy to me.
I'll hold my vote for 2 hours for you to respond. After that I will have to start thinking about going to sleep since I have to work real early. I'm already staying up late for this.
Setting up an RNG to lynch someone is really stupid, especially with those odds plus it also takes away the fun/skill of the game. Also seems silly to be talking about an afk lynch when the game literally just started, would rather vote for someone suspicious looking like SagaZ who was so quick to start talking about lynching people minutes after the game started.
QUOTE]On October 14 2013 15:52 OdinOfPergo wrote: Well, I read through my last post, And then decide how bad that thought is.
Judging by what you just said July, a 100% GUESS at a "afk lynch" is better than a 40% chance to land a scrum roll on the first day within the first 4 hours.
My only question is; Are you being serious right now? Because trying to throw off town that hard would seem pretty scummy to me.
I'll hold my vote for 2 hours for you to respond. After that I will have to start thinking about going to sleep since I have to work real early. I'm already staying up late for this.[/QUOTE]
How is July's thought a bad idea, it is unsafe, while you have a 40% chance to land a scum you have a 60% chance to blame an innocent townie like myself. Police detectives just don't take a group of people then choose one of them at random and arrest them. Don't even understand how you think he is throwing off the town when you are a danger wanting to pick random people to lynch, that is what seems scummy to me.
On October 14 2013 11:26 SagaZ wrote: As a disclaimer early, I think we should all agree on something. We are all newbies here, so if you fuck up or say something dumb, don't play the "oh sorry, I am new I didn't know".
Seuss is our confirmed town, we should try to organize around him. For a day 1 lynch, I think lynching some1 innactive is the best way to go. Having innactive players around just give mafia the opportunity to sit back and do nothing while town runs around screaming at each other. So give information about yourself if you can, so that others will be able to read you easy.
My stance this early is easy: I will vote for people that post nothing worthy or nothing at all, unless some1 slips. I am also more likely to vote for people that say suspicious stuff and then say "sorry I didn't know I am new"
Ok, your first sentence I like. We know what to expect coming into this game. Everyone here is "Relatively" new. This is not really an excuse. If you let this be an excuse for town, what makes you think the scum won't abuse it twice fold? The only way to solve this problem is to hold EVERYONE to a higher expectation.
I like your comment about Monte (AKA SUESS!!! DAMMIT MONTE!!) This calls us town-folk in the right direction. Sadly, it was announced on the beginning of day 1. So odds are, the scum are going to kill Suess early on. They know he's town. Who else do they know is town? How would they know any of the blue roles? Who's better target for them than him?''
The point on "Having in-active players around just give the mafia opps" mean literally nothing. They already have a mod confirmed target.
On October 14 2013 16:09 Vonthin wrote: QUOTE]On October 14 2013 15:52 OdinOfPergo wrote: Well, I read through my last post, And then decide how bad that thought is.
Judging by what you just said July, a 100% GUESS at a "afk lynch" is better than a 40% chance to land a scrum roll on the first day within the first 4 hours.
My only question is; Are you being serious right now? Because trying to throw off town that hard would seem pretty scummy to me.
I'll hold my vote for 2 hours for you to respond. After that I will have to start thinking about going to sleep since I have to work real early. I'm already staying up late for this.
How is July's thought a bad idea, it is unsafe, while you have a 40% chance to land a scum you have a 60% chance to blame an innocent townie like myself. Police detectives just don't take a group of people then choose one of them at random and arrest them. Don't even understand how you think he is throwing off the town when you are a danger wanting to pick random people to lynch, that is what seems scummy to me.[/QUOTE]
Yes. The difference between his and my idea, Is mainly, I have a strong chance to land scum. He has a penny in a hay bail.
More over, my idea leaves me the entire rest of D1 to ALTER my vote. While he is claiming, regardless of what happens in the next FORTY hours, that we should waste our votes on "in-active" members that may or may not be mod-killed and replaced anyway.
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.) This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
Agree with this post 100%. We have to keep people talking and find oddities, it's our best chance at catching scum (and something they say might bite them in their ass later).
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
That is a ballsy move, what makes you think it's a good idea to go ballsdeep on him because of his ONE post?
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with this at all. How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.) This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
Agree with this post 100%. We have to keep people talking and find oddities, it's our best chance at catching scum (and something they say might bite them in their ass later).
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
That is a ballsy move, what makes you think it's a good idea to go ballsdeep on him because of his ONE post?
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
LOL Screw it. EBWOP. I obviously can't quote things worth nothin'. So, in case of future reference I'm re-quoting so we have a 100% un-altered chat log for me to reference.
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
I don't agree with this at all. How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it. [/QUOTE]
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.) This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
On October 14 2013 16:28 OdinOfPergo wrote: How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say you don't want to waste your vote on someone who doesn't post and then you proceed to push for a RANDOM lynch.
Well, that was sort of my point. We can force early conversation with a RNG. Best case scenario; We rid ourselves of a scum role.
Worst case scenario; We have to change our votes because a townie defends himself. This is the entire reason I found the previous post twards this questionable.
On October 14 2013 16:25 OdinOfPergo wrote: Also Vonthin, How does that work into what I said at all?
July didn't even post a counter argument. He just disagreed with what I suggested.
He was just saying he disagreed with your methods, he didn't say anywhere(unless I missed something which i don't think i did) that we waste our votes lynching inactive members which you said he did in one of your earlier posts. Both lynching RNG/getting the inactive person is both sorta stupid
On October 14 2013 16:38 playerboy345 wrote: Could you maybe quote what post you are reffering to? Or atleast a link to it, would be much easier to keep track of things that way.
This was Julys first post when he responded to the RNG thing
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
The bottom of this post is when OdinOfPergo said that July told us to waste our votes
On October 14 2013 15:52 OdinOfPergo wrote: Well, I read through my last post, And then decide how bad that thought is.
Judging by what you just said July, a 100% GUESS at a "afk lynch" is better than a 40% chance to land a scrum roll on the first day within the first 4 hours.
My only question is; Are you being serious right now? Because trying to throw off town that hard would seem pretty scummy to me.
I'll hold my vote for 2 hours for you to respond. After that I will have to start thinking about going to sleep since I have to work real early. I'm already staying up late for this.
How is July's thought a bad idea, it is unsafe, while you have a 40% chance to land a scum you have a 60% chance to blame an innocent townie like myself. Police detectives just don't take a group of people then choose one of them at random and arrest them. Don't even understand how you think he is throwing off the town when you are a danger wanting to pick random people to lynch, that is what seems scummy to me.
Yes. The difference between his and my idea, Is mainly, I have a strong chance to land scum. He has a penny in a hay bail.
More over, my idea leaves me the entire rest of D1 to ALTER my vote. While he is claiming, regardless of what happens in the next FORTY hours, that we should waste our votes on "in-active" members that may or may not be mod-killed and replaced anyway.
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
I don't agree with this at all. How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
this is an official warning anyone who edits their post will be [insert disciplinary action here]. If you want to correct something you say, please use the phrase 'EBWOP' Edit by way of post. Just post twice and include the change you want to see. Using the edit function is strictly not allowed.
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.)
This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
On October 14 2013 16:28 OdinOfPergo wrote: How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say you don't want to waste your vote on someone who doesn't post and then you proceed to push for a RANDOM lynch.
Alright, allow me to clarify in lamest terms for you.
If town lynches a lurker/afk that has not posted at the end of day one. Odds are, is that SAME person will proceed to afk and NOT VOTE (Which is mandatory I might add.) Resulting in a mod-kill. This outcome leads to the ENTIRE TOWN wasting their votes on a lynch that meant LITERALLY NOTHING
Why take these odds when you have much better odds with a rng? We can alter rng votes according to what players argue. We can apply pressure to try to flesh of scum on day 1 with these votes. We can move the town in the right direction with these votes.
Now please answer me; What the heck do you find scummy about my suggestion?
On October 14 2013 16:54 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I don't think if istandwithmitt was mafia, he would throw his buddy so hard under the bus that hard and that quickly.
So just because you think mafia won't bus their teammates means they are guaranteed town? It's thoughts like this that allow mafia to do such things.
On October 14 2013 16:25 OdinOfPergo wrote: Also Vonthin, How does that work into what I said at all?
July didn't even post a counter argument. He just disagreed with what I suggested.
He was just saying he disagreed with your methods, he didn't say anywhere(unless I missed something which i don't think i did) that we waste our votes lynching inactive members which you said he did in one of your earlier posts. Both lynching RNG/getting the inactive person is both sorta stupid
Ok, sorry. This was my ms-understanding then. I think I've spent enough time defending my position on my recommendation. Hopefully people will get back to me on it. I refuse to set this up/ push for this if people seriously think I'm being scummy for doing it.
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.)
This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
On October 14 2013 16:28 OdinOfPergo wrote: How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say you don't want to waste your vote on someone who doesn't post and then you proceed to push for a RANDOM lynch.
Alright, allow me to clarify in lamest terms for you.
If town lynches a lurker/afk that has not posted at the end of day one. Odds are, is that SAME person will proceed to afk and NOT VOTE (Which is mandatory I might add.) Resulting in a mod-kill. This outcome leads to the ENTIRE TOWN wasting their votes on a lynch that meant LITERALLY NOTHING
Why take these odds when you have much better odds with a rng? We can alter rng votes according to what players argue. We can apply pressure to try to flesh of scum on day 1 with these votes. We can move the town in the right direction with these votes.
Now please answer me; What the heck do you find scummy about my suggestion?
"We can alter rng votes according to what players argue." would it still be a rng if you alter your vote?
And chill, I never said that your suggestion is scummy.
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
@PLAYERBOI, I was referring to this comment.
Wait, where in that post am I reffering to your post as scummy?
No, I didn't say you did. You brought up something about me not referencing (I'm glad you did now that I re-read.)
So I jumped to conclusions. Sorry, like I said, I work really long hours. If I say something retarded; I hope you guys don't write me off for it. But please do allow me a few hours to explain myself. (Because unless I have the following day off I will most likely be asleep before any meaningful convo. takes place.)
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.) This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
On October 14 2013 16:28 OdinOfPergo wrote: How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say you don't want to waste your vote on someone who doesn't post and then you proceed to push for a RANDOM lynch.
I tried to clear this up. This is what I was talking about Player. If I failed at it, I will try to re-word it so it is easier to understand.
Sorry haven't slept too much (only 4 hours T_T) so I kind of feel like a zombie, would love it if you could put it all in one post if it isn't too much to ask for.
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
Give me a few minutes. I'm not too familiar with how to combine quotes in TL foryums (if my post count wasn't enough to give me away HAHA hehe ) But I'll try to string it together the best I can.
On October 14 2013 17:19 E00e wrote: Hello everyone, my first post!
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
I dont think anyone is sidetracked, I just think we need to talk more so we can get idea's of the active players and a direction in which to go towards . Preferably a sane one.
On October 14 2013 17:19 E00e wrote: Hello everyone, my first post!
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
No the discussion isn't pointless - it forces people to talk which is a good thing.
And going ballsdeep on SagaZ AND istandwith mitt....
Dude I can't even be bothered to mention the last paragraph: ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?
On October 14 2013 15:52 OdinOfPergo wrote: Well, I read through my last post, And then decide how bad that thought is.
Judging by what you just said July, a 100% GUESS at a "afk lynch" is better than a 40% chance to land a scrum roll on the first day within the first 4 hours.
My only question is; Are you being serious right now? Because trying to throw off town that hard would seem pretty scummy to me.
I'll hold my vote for 2 hours for you to respond. After that I will have to start thinking about going to sleep since I have to work real early. I'm already staying up late for this.
My pre-arguement on why we should do this instead of "Silence" or "afk" lynch.
ou're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
July's response to me. This is stupid, because you are trading chance to lynch (All-be-it 4 to 6), For a 100% guess.
Setting up an RNG to lynch someone is really stupid, especially with those odds plus it also takes away the fun/skill of the game. Also seems silly to be talking about an afk lynch when the game literally just started, would rather vote for someone suspicious looking like SagaZ who was so quick to start talking about lynching people minutes after the game started.
Vonthin supports this view point. Which makes me wonder about him too. Why would people freak about about of 4-6 chance when they are willing to jump on a 1-10? Nothing adds up right now.
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.) This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
Agree with this post 100%. We have to keep people talking and find oddities, it's our best chance at catching scum (and something they say might bite them in their ass later).
You jump in supporting my suggestion.
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
That is a ballsy move, what makes you think it's a good idea to go ballsdeep on him because of his ONE post?[/QUOTE]
Again we agree.
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
[/QUOTE]
This is where you lose me. They are trying to call me out for my RNG. But what better plan are they suggesting? Because alls I've heard to this point is "lynch afk". Which, most likely, means we waste our votes on someone who is going to get mod-killed/replaced the following morning. Describe in detail if I have not followed peoples logic soundly.
I do not think our cop role-claiming would be a good move at this point. The scum already know one of our roles and we don't want to add to that.
I'd much prefer to gather intel. from him first. If he just points us in the right direction without giving himself away in the first few days... Well, honestly, I'll be ecstatic.
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.)
This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
On October 14 2013 16:28 OdinOfPergo wrote: How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say you don't want to waste your vote on someone who doesn't post and then you proceed to push for a RANDOM lynch.
Alright, allow me to clarify in lamest terms for you.
If town lynches a lurker/afk that has not posted at the end of day one. Odds are, is that SAME person will proceed to afk and NOT VOTE (Which is mandatory I might add.) Resulting in a mod-kill. This outcome leads to the ENTIRE TOWN wasting their votes on a lynch that meant LITERALLY NOTHING
Why take these odds when you have much better odds with a rng? We can alter rng votes according to what players argue. We can apply pressure to try to flesh of scum on day 1 with these votes. We can move the town in the right direction with these votes.
Now please answer me; What the heck do you find scummy about my suggestion?
"We can alter rng votes according to what players argue." would it still be a rng if you alter your vote?
And chill, I never said that your suggestion is scummy.
I am a bit confused by this post. From what I can get.. "Would I support a RNG if it pointed vs myself?" Simple answer is no. This method only for sure works if you roll town. It works more efficiently the more players you can for sure eliminate from scum.
On October 14 2013 17:35 playerboy345 wrote: No the discussion isn't pointless - it forces people to talk which is a good thing.
And going ballsdeep on SagaZ AND istandwith mitt....
Dude I can't even be bothered to mention the last paragraph: ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?
Yes it is good that people talk, however there might be other more rewarding ways to do that. I think that meta discussions about this topic are pointless too, so I wont argue about that more.
Could you explain your rage about the last paragraph? From your post I dont understand the problem with it and I said everything very calmly and careful.
I'm against lynching afkers. Lurkers are kind of a different story though, we have to force those to post.
Honestly your suggesting isn't lynching someone randomly, it's lynching whoever is the scummiest (something I agree with). Lynching afkers should never happen in my opinion as it's more likely to set us back then anything else.
I am a bit confused by this post. From what I can get.. "Would I support a RNG if it pointed vs myself?" Simple answer is no. This method only for sure works if you roll town. It works more efficiently the more players you can for sure eliminate from scum.
The point I wanted to make was that your suggestion isn't to RANDOMly lynch someone - it's to lynch the scummiest person and hope he is indeed scum.
@playerboy345 I honestly cant tell if you are being sarcastic or are just flaming me for something that is implied to be very bad about my posts but which I dont know about.
Right now it looks like you are not interested in a real discussion because you continue to make cryptic claims. If there is something obviously bad just say it so I can improve. If there is something bad that you for whatever reason dont want to point out right now then just say it.
On October 14 2013 15:52 OdinOfPergo wrote: Well, I read through my last post, And then decide how bad that thought is.
Judging by what you just said July, a 100% GUESS at a "afk lynch" is better than a 40% chance to land a scrum roll on the first day within the first 4 hours.
My only question is; Are you being serious right now? Because trying to throw off town that hard would seem pretty scummy to me.
I'll hold my vote for 2 hours for you to respond. After that I will have to start thinking about going to sleep since I have to work real early. I'm already staying up late for this.
My pre-arguement on why we should do this instead of "Silence" or "afk" lynch.
Setting up an RNG to lynch someone is really stupid, especially with those odds plus it also takes away the fun/skill of the game. Also seems silly to be talking about an afk lynch when the game literally just started, would rather vote for someone suspicious looking like SagaZ who was so quick to start talking about lynching people minutes after the game started.
Vonthin supports this view point. Which makes me wonder about him too. Why would people freak about about of 4-6 chance when they are willing to jump on a 1-10? Nothing adds up right now.
On October 14 2013 13:17 OdinOfPergo wrote: Oh, to clarify - If lynching an in-active is our only option, I'm not entirely against it. I merely don't want to waste our votes on someone we can't possibly know anything about (Because they don't post.) This option only makes any sort of sense closer to the end of day 1. Right now, as it stands, we have the next 45-46ish hours to gather/draw conclusions from any information presented.
Agree with this post 100%. We have to keep people talking and find oddities, it's our best chance at catching scum (and something they say might bite them in their ass later).
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
That is a ballsy move, what makes you think it's a good idea to go ballsdeep on him because of his ONE post?
Again we agree.
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
Makes a good point, but would it really be all that smart for scum to play risky? I don't necessarily agree with his post but I don't see it as scummy.
[/QUOTE]
This is where you lose me. They are trying to call me out for my RNG. But what better plan are they suggesting? Because alls I've heard to this point is "lynch afk". Which, most likely, means we waste our votes on someone who is going to get mod-killed/replaced the following morning. Describe in detail if I have not followed peoples logic soundly.[/QUOTE]
July stated that all he was was disagreeing with your RANDOM choice of lynching someone, wasn't implying on any other lynching method and literally nothing about choosing inactive person and guessing, you are just making up shit to make him look bad. Once again I was saying I am disagreeing with your RNG and no where stating I am making a 1-10 guess on someone.You are jumping 2 conclusions once again and trying to make people look worse. Just cause no one stated a plan besides lynching an inactive or your RNG plan doesn't mean we all agree with the lynching inactives. I am not comfortable with lynching anyone yet as it is still pretty early in day 1 and not everyone has posted yet as also stated by July in an earlier post, my plan is to wait as long as possible to vote after reading everyone's posts to see who is the most suspicious.
the way i see it: 1. this mafia game is a bronze/wood level game equivalent in LoL so most if not everyone should be a baddie 2. mafia tends to have the upper hand when townies are disorganized / randomly spouting shit 3. townies don't stand a chance without some kind of organization
for those reasons, i'm going with whatever Odin suggests since the alternative is to be disorganized and lose anyway.
Of course I meant lurker lynch, afkers will get modkilled after all. If one guy is not saying anything in the thread or very little, but still turn out to vote for people without giving reasoning... that would be very scum telling to me. I guess it is fairly obvious to everyone, but pointing it out will make them talk whether they want it or not, and that gives information. I took the opportunity of the first post to basically say "game started, don't hide behind your inexperience and post".
For town to win we need 2 thing: - Get everyone active - Organize around our confirmed towny Seuss
@nyxnyxnyx: Care to explain why you trust Odin? Him being so hyper posty makes me nervous but he actually present points for us to discuss on, which creates discussion and is therefore good for town. It is weird to me at least that you come in, decide to side with odin even thought we have a confirmed townie.
On October 14 2013 19:34 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Sorry about the edit above, did not actually change the meaning or context and was edited within a second of posting
Just don't do it again. Goes for everyone. Editing is absolutely forbidden while the game is ongoing.
Sorry guys, I had to get a TEENY bit of sleep before I had to go to work. I'll be off at 12:30 (I'm on break now. This out time is a hour away.) I drafted up a part of my current reads during my lunch. Alas, 30 minutes was not enough time to explain everything. So I only have part of you down.
Depending on if I try to take a nap after I get off work, I will post up my current reads within the next couple of hours.
We've spent a lot of time discussing what amounts to a backup plan. The whole "vote inactive vs vote RNG" debate only matters in the odd and unlikely case that we don't have any likely suspects by the end of the day. A quarter of our time is gone, spent discussing something that likely won't be important when we only have a quarter of our time left. We can reopen that debate later when it matters, for now we should be finding scum.
To that end, I'd like istandwithmitt to join the discussion. He's posted only once, saying:
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
His points are fairly sound. Lynching lurkers doesn't accomplish much, and the suggestion to rally around me is an easy one to make (and not without its issues). However, those points are buried in a confrontational, finger-pointing post that also implies istandwithmitt won't be participating much ("Well, see ya").
This currently makes istandwithmitt a prime suspect, as there's little more unhelpful than a single, disruptive post. If he's a townie he's either already lost interest in the game or is more of a liability than an asset. If he's a mafia then he's an obvious target and we should pick the low-hanging fruit.
On October 14 2013 20:41 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Knowing that Seuss is a confirmed townie doesn't help the rest of the townies come up with any voting decision other than not voting for him.
Why Odin? Because no one else has come up with any sort of plan for townies organize around. I'm just going in blind and hoping Odin isn't scum.
Being organized is fine, but blind faith can be just as destructive.
On another note, we had this same debate about lynching lurkers in the last newbie game. Of course we want to avoid voting for people that are going to be mod killed, but if they at least talk once they are safe for the voting period. While I won't say we should 100% lynch a lurker, it's at least worth looking at people with low post contribution to see if anything suspicious stands out.
Setting up an RNG to lynch someone is really stupid, especially with those odds plus it also takes away the fun/skill of the game. Also seems silly to be talking about an afk lynch when the game literally just started, would rather vote for someone suspicious looking like SagaZ who was so quick to start talking about lynching people minutes after the game started.
How is July's thought a bad idea, it is unsafe, while you have a 40% chance to land a scum you have a 60% chance to blame an innocent townie like myself. Police detectives just don't take a group of people then choose one of them at random and arrest them. Don't even understand how you think he is throwing off the town when you are a danger wanting to pick random people to lynch, that is what seems scummy to me.
I have a obvious goal in mind. Everyone should be able to see it by now. I've explained my reasoning behind this point already. If you didn't read it, It doesn't help your position to point attention to it. Anybody that graduated grade school can do the simple math. That will tell them a almost 40% chance is better than a blind shot in the dark. Which was like a 20 something iirc. From what I've seen to this point, you are just trying to side-track me.
Also Vonthin, How does that work into what I said at all?
July didn't even post a counter argument. He just disagreed with what I suggested.
He was just saying he disagreed with your methods, he didn't say anywhere(unless I missed something which i don't think i did) that we waste our votes lynching inactive members which you said he did in one of your earlier posts. Both lynching RNG/getting the inactive person is both sorta stupid
Ok, so he tried to derail my train of thought without trying to giving me a new one? Sounds like your trying to stall for something. Again.
On October 14 2013 16:09 Vonthin wrote: QUOTE]On October 14 2013 15:52 OdinOfPergo wrote: Well, I read through my last post, And then decide how bad that thought is.
Judging by what you just said July, a 100% GUESS at a "afk lynch" is better than a 40% chance to land a scrum roll on the first day within the first 4 hours.
My only question is; Are you being serious right now? Because trying to throw off town that hard would seem pretty scummy to me.
I'll hold my vote for 2 hours for you to respond. After that I will have to start thinking about going to sleep since I have to work real early. I'm already staying up late for this.
Yes. The difference between his and my idea, Is mainly, I have a strong chance to land scum. He has a penny in a hay bail. More over, my idea leaves me the entire rest of D1 to ALTER my vote. While he is claiming, regardless of what happens in the next FORTY hours, that we should waste our votes on "in-active" members that may or may not be mod-killed and replaced anyway.
Also Vonthin, please note; I have not even cast a vote yet. You should really contribute to these arguments at this point. Because from I can tell you are just side-tracking them without an alternative.
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
That is a ballsy move, what makes you think it's a good idea to go ballsdeep on him because of his ONE post?
I enjoy the fact that at least you question things.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say you don't want to waste your vote on someone who doesn't post and then you proceed to push for a RANDOM lynch.
My responce.
Well, that was sort of my point. We can force early conversation with a RNG. Best case scenario; We rid ourselves of a scum role.
Worst case scenario; We have to change our votes because a townie defends himself. This is the entire reason I found the previous post twards this questionable.
Player did not understand my previous post. I explained it out again through pages 8&9 (Too lazy to copy this since people do NO FORMATTING PLS. USE YOUR SPACE/ENTER KEY PLS.) But anyway, the result came to this:
Alright, allow me to clarify in lamest terms for you.
If town lynches a lurker/afk that has not posted at the end of day one. Odds are, is that SAME person will proceed to afk and NOT VOTE (Which is mandatory I might add.) Resulting in a mod-kill. This outcome leads to the ENTIRE TOWN wasting their votes on a lynch that meant LITERALLY NOTHING
Why take these odds when you have much better odds with a rng? We can alter rng votes according to what players argue. We can apply pressure to try to flesh of scum on day 1 with these votes. We can move the town in the right direction with these votes.
Now please answer me; What the heck do you find scummy about my suggestion?
TO which PB answered quickly; ( I GOT FREAKING LAZY. I WILL CONTINUE IF PEOPLE ARE TO LAZY TO GO READ TWO PAGES.
Actually screw this. I've been trying to peice this post together for almost and hour and a half now. I just got off work and it's still not done. Our conclusion comes out to: PB calls me out to explain my claims- I explain them- PB explains his point of view. I explain mine. We tend to agree after a while on most subjects. EVERYTHING to do with this takes place on pages 8-10 Go read up on it. I'm tired. Also, you guys, for the most part, don't format shit. It's hard to type things out on notepad (Haha, It denies me [for the most part] the ability to format anything.)
Ok, well at least you have come to a point on this. There is literally no point in lynching someone who's afk. Our current big lurkers, SagaZ and istandwithmitt, Haven't given us much to bais on. I'm more agains't Istand because it seems he's trying to bandwagon an early vote. While that's not suprising in these games, He doesn't follow up with anything (Be it because SagaZ didn't post anything after or not.) At this point I'll agree with you in saying this action is slightly disturbing. You can pressure vote on SagaZ though Istand. I will not vote for you yet because of this. If SagaZ comes back into this discussing I might even apluad you for it (Thought, it's been several hours, I have my doubts this will happen gracefully.)
LATER ON I'm against lynching afkers. Lurkers are kind of a different story though, we have to force those to post.
Honestly your suggesting isn't lynching someone randomly, it's lynching whoever is the scummiest (something I agree with). Lynching afkers should never happen in my opinion as it's more likely to set us back then anything else.
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
My responce.
I don't agree with this at all. How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
his "responce"? I mean this seriously isn't even coherent. How am I suppose to answer this per my previous question?
At least you realize how bad that sort of thinking is , I don't feel comfortable lynching anyone just yet .
I never said we lynch anyone .
let's just let people talk for a bit.
We ARE talking. Why are you saying that this discussion is bad?
I dont think anyone is sidetracked, I just think we need to talk more so we can get idea's of the active players and a direction in which to go towards . Preferably a sane one.
I don't understand how you expect us to move foward. You are obviously agains't my idea. You are "undecided" (I lack a solid statement) saying that you are for/agains't a policy "afk/lurker" vote. If I missed something here, point it out. Because alls I can gather from your current filter is that you obviously have no set objective. That makes me think you're scum
I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
He did at least "sort of" defend his post.
I don't think if istandwithmitt was mafia, he would throw his buddy so hard under the bus that hard and that quickly.
E00e -- NULL (RESEARCH PREV.)
At the end of the road here, I've come into a few conclusions. Which is good. It was the whole reason I posted the RNG in the first place. I would have used it if nothing else came up. Lucky for me, there is plenty of things that have drawn my attention since this topic started.
@Suess -- I don't intend to follow through with a RNG now. I have reads/tells that I have posted above that resulted from this days current discussions. I will adjust my views depending on what happens after this.
wowow, this is the first time I've checked back on a newbie game after 12+ hours and there have been more than 30 posts to read. nice. I'll try to catch up as best I can while at work, but if not I'll be posting tonight when I get home (in ~9 hours) for sure.
On October 15 2013 01:46 OdinOfPergo wrote: Vonthin -- SCUM + Show Spoiler +
Setting up an RNG to lynch someone is really stupid, especially with those odds plus it also takes away the fun/skill of the game. Also seems silly to be talking about an afk lynch when the game literally just started, would rather vote for someone suspicious looking like SagaZ who was so quick to start talking about lynching people minutes after the game started.
How is July's thought a bad idea, it is unsafe, while you have a 40% chance to land a scum you have a 60% chance to blame an innocent townie like myself. Police detectives just don't take a group of people then choose one of them at random and arrest them. Don't even understand how you think he is throwing off the town when you are a danger wanting to pick random people to lynch, that is what seems scummy to me.
I have a obvious goal in mind. Everyone should be able to see it by now. I've explained my reasoning behind this point already. If you didn't read it, It doesn't help your position to point attention to it. Anybody that graduated grade school can do the simple math. That will tell them a almost 40% chance is better than a blind shot in the dark. Which was like a 20 something iirc. From what I've seen to this point, you are just trying to side-track me.
Also Vonthin, How does that work into what I said at all?
July didn't even post a counter argument. He just disagreed with what I suggested.
He was just saying he disagreed with your methods, he didn't say anywhere(unless I missed something which i don't think i did) that we waste our votes lynching inactive members which you said he did in one of your earlier posts. Both lynching RNG/getting the inactive person is both sorta stupid
Ok, so he tried to derail my train of thought without trying to giving me a new one? Sounds like your trying to stall for something. Again.
On October 14 2013 16:09 Vonthin wrote: QUOTE]On October 14 2013 15:52 OdinOfPergo wrote: Well, I read through my last post, And then decide how bad that thought is.
Judging by what you just said July, a 100% GUESS at a "afk lynch" is better than a 40% chance to land a scrum roll on the first day within the first 4 hours.
My only question is; Are you being serious right now? Because trying to throw off town that hard would seem pretty scummy to me.
I'll hold my vote for 2 hours for you to respond. After that I will have to start thinking about going to sleep since I have to work real early. I'm already staying up late for this.
Yes. The difference between his and my idea, Is mainly, I have a strong chance to land scum. He has a penny in a hay bail. More over, my idea leaves me the entire rest of D1 to ALTER my vote. While he is claiming, regardless of what happens in the next FORTY hours, that we should waste our votes on "in-active" members that may or may not be mod-killed and replaced anyway.
Also Vonthin, please note; I have not even cast a vote yet. You should really contribute to these arguments at this point. Because from I can tell you are just side-tracking them without an alternative.
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
That is a ballsy move, what makes you think it's a good idea to go ballsdeep on him because of his ONE post?
I enjoy the fact that at least you question things.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say you don't want to waste your vote on someone who doesn't post and then you proceed to push for a RANDOM lynch.
My responce.
Well, that was sort of my point. We can force early conversation with a RNG. Best case scenario; We rid ourselves of a scum role.
Worst case scenario; We have to change our votes because a townie defends himself. This is the entire reason I found the previous post twards this questionable.
Player did not understand my previous post. I explained it out again through pages 8&9 (Too lazy to copy this since people do NO FORMATTING PLS. USE YOUR SPACE/ENTER KEY PLS.) But anyway, the result came to this:
Alright, allow me to clarify in lamest terms for you.
If town lynches a lurker/afk that has not posted at the end of day one. Odds are, is that SAME person will proceed to afk and NOT VOTE (Which is mandatory I might add.) Resulting in a mod-kill. This outcome leads to the ENTIRE TOWN wasting their votes on a lynch that meant LITERALLY NOTHING
Why take these odds when you have much better odds with a rng? We can alter rng votes according to what players argue. We can apply pressure to try to flesh of scum on day 1 with these votes. We can move the town in the right direction with these votes.
Now please answer me; What the heck do you find scummy about my suggestion?
TO which PB answered quickly; ( I GOT FREAKING LAZY. I WILL CONTINUE IF PEOPLE ARE TO LAZY TO GO READ TWO PAGES.
Actually screw this. I've been trying to peice this post together for almost and hour and a half now. I just got off work and it's still not done. Our conclusion comes out to: PB calls me out to explain my claims- I explain them- PB explains his point of view. I explain mine. We tend to agree after a while on most subjects. EVERYTHING to do with this takes place on pages 8-10 Go read up on it. I'm tired. Also, you guys, for the most part, don't format shit. It's hard to type things out on notepad (Haha, It denies me [for the most part] the ability to format anything.)
Ok, well at least you have come to a point on this. There is literally no point in lynching someone who's afk. Our current big lurkers, SagaZ and istandwithmitt, Haven't given us much to bais on. I'm more agains't Istand because it seems he's trying to bandwagon an early vote. While that's not suprising in these games, He doesn't follow up with anything (Be it because SagaZ didn't post anything after or not.) At this point I'll agree with you in saying this action is slightly disturbing. You can pressure vote on SagaZ though Istand. I will not vote for you yet because of this. If SagaZ comes back into this discussing I might even apluad you for it (Thought, it's been several hours, I have my doubts this will happen gracefully.)
LATER ON I'm against lynching afkers. Lurkers are kind of a different story though, we have to force those to post.
Honestly your suggesting isn't lynching someone randomly, it's lynching whoever is the scummiest (something I agree with). Lynching afkers should never happen in my opinion as it's more likely to set us back then anything else.
On October 14 2013 15:29 July617 wrote: You're going to randomly tag someone who could be potential town and marking them as scum?
Doesn't sound like a safe way to play to me .
My responce.
I don't agree with this at all. How exactly is lynching a afk/lurker at this point better than taking stronger odds chance of a RNG I posted earlier better? I just don't get it.
his "responce"? I mean this seriously isn't even coherent. How am I suppose to answer this per my previous question?
At least you realize how bad that sort of thinking is , I don't feel comfortable lynching anyone just yet .
I never said we lynch anyone .
let's just let people talk for a bit.
We ARE talking. Why are you saying that this discussion is bad?
I dont think anyone is sidetracked, I just think we need to talk more so we can get idea's of the active players and a direction in which to go towards . Preferably a sane one.
I don't understand how you expect us to move foward. You are obviously agains't my idea. You are "undecided" (I lack a solid statement) saying that you are for/agains't a policy "afk/lurker" vote. If I missed something here, point it out. Because alls I can gather from your current filter is that you obviously have no set objective. That makes me think you're scum
I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
He did at least "sort of" defend his post.
I don't think if istandwithmitt was mafia, he would throw his buddy so hard under the bus that hard and that quickly.
E00e -- NULL (RESEARCH PREV.)
At the end of the road here, I've come into a few conclusions. Which is good. It was the whole reason I posted the RNG in the first place. I would have used it if nothing else came up. Lucky for me, there is plenty of things that have drawn my attention since this topic started.
@Suess -- I don't intend to follow through with a RNG now. I have reads/tells that I have posted above that resulted from this days current discussions. I will adjust my views depending on what happens after this.
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
This being his only post I am somewhat torn about it. I understand that trying to pressure vote is a way to get people to talk. But I don't really think this is a "pressure vote" There is no pressure here.
It's a scape goat "Oh look, I posted this day" Now I will proceed to lurk and not follow up any argument or pressure on this "pressure vote".
This particular post is scummy. But as it is his only post, I'm not really enticed into chasing for this lynch yet.
Perhaps I will revert to it if my other scum reads post valid counter-arguments.
Also, take more time to format your posts. You're reading a lot into people not understanding you, but quite honestly your formatting makes you difficult to understand.
Try writing as if you're writing a letter, rather than as if you're having a conversation.
On October 14 2013 14:38 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: SagaZ
Lynching lurkers gives us no information for future days & keeps scum from having to lay down a real vote. The way he's trying to guide the town is really scummy too & makes him look town without contributing anything.
Well, see ya
This being his only post I am somewhat torn about it. I understand that trying to pressure vote is a way to get people to talk. But I don't really think this is a "pressure vote" There is no pressure here.
It's a scape goat "Oh look, I posted this day" Now I will proceed to lurk and not follow up any argument or pressure on this "pressure vote".
This particular post is scummy. But as it is his only post, I'm not really enticed into chasing for this lynch yet.
Perhaps I will revert to it if my other scum reads post valid counter-arguments.
I'm fine with chasing other potential scum for now. I'm curious as to why you're leaning town on playerboy345. Do you not find the way he and July617 randomly jumped on E00e suspicious?
Also Suess, I comment on my previous statement briefly in the PB read I posted earlier. If I have to choose between SagaZ and Istand, Istand looks worse.
I'll be honest, I haven't caught up on what happened last night after I went to work yet. Give me a hour or so to soak in what I've read and I'll post on this.
It's the whole reason I left E00e as NULL for right now. I haven't really studied what happened between last night and now.
E00e's first post. Some good things going on, and some bad things going on. Personally I want to write off the bad things on bigginers in-experience. The over-all objective of his post seems to be pro-town. But he does ask some questions that could of caused us problems. As he doesn't persue any of these, I don't really have any issue with him.
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
This is July's response. I don't like July's post in general. It's why he's my second scummy read. He hasn't posted anything that's convinced me 100% that he is scum yet, But he's for sure not helping his position in my eyes with post like these.
On October 14 2013 17:19 E00e wrote: Hello everyone, my first post!
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
I dont think anyone is sidetracked, I just think we need to talk more so we can get idea's of the active players and a direction in which to go towards . Preferably a sane one.
Player's response. For starters, this post seems a lot worse than it actually is depending on how you view it. Player seems REALLY harsh in this. I can't really fualt him for that in this case. You want to be hyper aggro on everyone to get: #1) Discussion going #2) Be able to learn thing from said discorse.
So yes, PB post comes off rather rude. Especially the end of it. I will not give him a scum read for doing it though, since I almost did the same at the suggestion of having our cop role-call. It sounds like a terrible idea to me. It obviously sounds like a terrible idea from PB too (from what I've read here.) The only reason I didn't say something to the level of what PB posted here is: E00e never actually followed up on his call out for the cop.
On October 14 2013 17:19 E00e wrote: Hello everyone, my first post!
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
[green]No the discussion isn't pointless - it forces people to talk which is a good thing.
And going ballsdeep on SagaZ AND istandwith mitt....
Dude I can't even be bothered to mention the last paragraph: ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?
On October 14 2013 17:44 OdinOfPergo wrote: @E00e -
I do not think our cop role-claiming would be a good move at this point. The scum already know one of our roles and we don't want to add to that.
I'd much prefer to gather intel. from him first. If he just points us in the right direction without giving himself away in the first few days... Well, honestly, I'll be ecstatic.
I will quote this to emphasize my point. I feel like E00e just slipped up early by asking for this roll-call because he's new. In this post, unless he's lying to try to cover up his tracks, it implies he STILL doesn't even understand where he messed up at. And in his defense, no one has explicitly pointed it out for him yet (Though this post will. You should explain your reasoning here E00e. I'm giving you the option too rather easily.)
On October 14 2013 17:35 playerboy345 wrote: No the discussion isn't pointless - it forces people to talk which is a good thing.
And going ballsdeep on SagaZ AND istandwith mitt....
Dude I can't even be bothered to mention the last paragraph: ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?
Yes it is good that people talk, however there might be other more rewarding ways to do that. I think that meta discussions about this topic are pointless too, so I wont argue about that more.
Could you explain your rage about the last paragraph? From your post I dont understand the problem with it and I said everything very calmly and careful.
PB followed with this The last line irks me about this post. Suess is right about this. Why are you jumping on him so hard? It's plain as day to me he just made a mistake. You should probably of followed up in a manner such as I just did a paragraph above this one. This looks pretty bad from other perspectives. It isn't enough for me to change my read on you yet. But you'd best explain the reasoning behind this attempt at a bandwagon. You're trying to flesh people out. I like that. But you do actually need to have evidence for your claims.
On October 14 2013 17:53 playerboy345 wrote: [green]I'm against lynching afkers. Lurkers are kind of a different story though, we have to force those to post.
Honestly your suggesting isn't lynching someone randomly, it's lynching whoever is the scummiest (something I agree with). Lynching afkers should never happen in my opinion as it's more likely to set us back then anything else.
I HATE E00e!!!! SERIOUSLY WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?
Reading through this I feel like I made the right initial call. Look, he re-words his post to better explain his point. The ONLY problem I have with this is: Why is E00e interested in helping our cop role-claim at all? We have coaches. Let him work it out with them. The less blue roles scum have to target the better. The only scenario that our cop should role-call in is if he is about to get lynched. In which case, if I hasn't defended himself to this point, it's probably too late regardless.
On October 14 2013 17:55 E00e wrote: @Odin I agree that the cop should not come out now. Im just interested in helping the cop to figure out when they should come out.
On October 14 2013 17:19 E00e wrote: Hello everyone, my first post!
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
I'd like to think this is a pro-town post because I agree with your point about the afk-lynch discussion when we've still got like 36 hours left to decide.
I don't know what to make of you siding with istandwithmitt against SagaZ yet as it could mean a lot of different things based on what assumptions I go with. For example:
-If SagaZ is mafia and istandwithmitt is town, you could be bussing your mafia under the table OR you could just be getting a good mafia read like another townie.
-If SagaZ is town and istandwithmitt is mafia, you could be working with your mafia to go for a relatively easy and suspicious first lynch OR you could just be drawing an incorrect mafia read as a well-meaning townie.
And I'm not sure what to make of your last paragraph regarding the cop. According to you, it's too early to discuss lynching afks because we have a lot of time left on Day 1 (which I agree with), but youre willing to go even further and discuss on what circumstances in future days the cop should come out? I'd say it's too early to discuss that as well here, or possibly not even relevant as maybe it's something you should ask your coach.
If E00e defense of SagaZ is wrong, was mine wrong too? Please explain.
SagaZ has made 1 post. It doesn't seem like it's complete trash but he hasn't posted anything else yet. I have to wait to see if this changes. Like my first couple post were about this. One of them specifically mentioned I was not on board with lynching SagaZ at the moment. It's kind of the reason I lean towards Istand lynch of SagaZ. Either way, at this point, either of them could probably post a compelling statement to sway my reads on them with solid reasoning. The whole reason I don't have a real read on either of them is entirely a lack of content.
On October 14 2013 17:19 E00e wrote: Hello everyone, my first post!
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
I'd like to think this is a pro-town post because I agree with your point about the afk-lynch discussion when we've still got like 36 hours left to decide.
I don't know what to make of you siding with istandwithmitt against SagaZ yet as it could mean a lot of different things based on what assumptions I go with. For example:
-If SagaZ is mafia and istandwithmitt is town, you could be bussing your mafia under the table OR you could just be getting a good mafia read like another townie.
-If SagaZ is town and istandwithmitt is mafia, you could be working with your mafia to go for a relatively easy and suspicious first lynch OR you could just be drawing an incorrect mafia read as a well-meaning townie.
And I'm not sure what to make of your last paragraph regarding the cop. According to you, it's too early to discuss lynching afks because we have a lot of time left on Day 1 (which I agree with), but youre willing to go even further and discuss on what circumstances in future days the cop should come out? I'd say it's too early to discuss that as well here, or possibly not even relevant as maybe it's something you should ask your coach.
Actually E00e is siding with SagaZ against istandwithmitt. Read the following sentence carefully:
I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
He's saying what istandwithmitt did was not reasonable.
I think it's fair to assume E00e simply didn't know discussing the cop wasn't useful. When he got pounced on for his poor suggestion no one explained why it was bad. In fact, it wasn't until a few posts ago that the explanation actually came out (i.e. the cop should only announce themselves if they're going to get lynched). Despite the vitriol thrown at him, E00e was polite and tried to kill the flaming. At the moment suspecting him of anything beyond being a newbie is a waste of time.
On October 15 2013 03:00 OdinOfPergo wrote: @GGTemp -
If E00e defense of SagaZ is wrong, was mine wrong too? Please explain.
SagaZ has made 1 post. It doesn't seem like it's complete trash but he hasn't posted anything else yet. I have to wait to see if this changes. Like my first couple post were about this. One of them specifically mentioned I was not on board with lynching SagaZ at the moment. It's kind of the reason I lean towards Istand lynch of SagaZ. Either way, at this point, either of them could probably post a compelling statement to sway my reads on them with solid reasoning. The whole reason I don't have a real read on either of them is entirely a lack of content.
Actually it looks like GGTeMpLaR just misunderstood E00e, and thought he was defending istandwithmitt.
SagaZ has actually posted twice. You apparently missed this one:
On October 14 2013 20:11 SagaZ wrote: Of course I meant lurker lynch, afkers will get modkilled after all. If one guy is not saying anything in the thread or very little, but still turn out to vote for people without giving reasoning... that would be very scum telling to me. I guess it is fairly obvious to everyone, but pointing it out will make them talk whether they want it or not, and that gives information. I took the opportunity of the first post to basically say "game started, don't hide behind your inexperience and post".
For town to win we need 2 thing: - Get everyone active - Organize around our confirmed towny Seuss
@nyxnyxnyx: Care to explain why you trust Odin? Him being so hyper posty makes me nervous but he actually present points for us to discuss on, which creates discussion and is therefore good for town. It is weird to me at least that you come in, decide to side with odin even thought we have a confirmed townie.
Like E00e he seems reasonable, though that mess about "I'm sorry I'm new" was pretty weird. I'm not particularly keen on his "organize around Seuss" idea because there's a high probability I'll be dead tomorrow, crippling the organization, but at the moment I think he means well.
On October 14 2013 19:33 nyxnyxnyx wrote: the way i see it: 1. this mafia game is a bronze/wood level game equivalent in LoL so most if not everyone should be a baddie 2. mafia tends to have the upper hand when townies are disorganized / randomly spouting shit 3. townies don't stand a chance without some kind of organization
for those reasons, i'm going with whatever Odin suggests since the alternative is to be disorganized and lose anyway.
See a lot of what OdinOfPergo is saying has made him my most town read for today but I'm still a bit reserved to go with him as 100% town and just follow him blindly. I'm actually even less comfortable in doing it now that you've said you're okay with doing it. I'm not saying you are mafia with him, because the sheer quantity of information he's been putting out there makes me read him as townie, but it's just a little suspicious in my eyes what you did.
Yeah, I guess I must of missed that. Ashamed. But this post still just kind of rehashes what we have been talking about anyway. Istand's actions seem scummy. There isn't a way to know for sure until he post more.
At the point I still prefer to wait. There isn't a lot to tell about either of them this way or that.
I guess I'll wait for everyone else to come back around. If my formatting was bad I'd prefer to settle any misunderstandings. I don't want bad scum reads on people because of simple miss understandings.
I'd rather have to pick apart my info so we can try to move the town in the right direction. My post mean nothing if they don't move us towards lynching scum.
If there's someone else to rally around I'm all for it, but until a suitable alternative appears I'm sticking with Odin as my townie bet. This blind sticking makes it easy to fuck us both if we're scum anyway.
playerboy345 - Tentative, could swing either way. His arguing with OdinOfPergo seemed questionable, but it appeared genuine. Not sure what to make of it. I actually read his anger towards E00e as being genuine town frustration as well, even if it was pretty bad mannered.
Balla24 - No read, needs more info.
Vonthin - Tentative, needs to post more for a better read.
OdinOfPergo - Strong town read at this point. I think his logic regarding the afk/lurkers is pro-town and he appears to be genuinely leading town in a good direction. His questioning of points in my posts and asking me for elaboration further leads me to believe he has a pro-town agenda. It's possible he could be mafia at this point but I doubt it. The only suspicion I have on him is resulting from nyxnyxnyx's statement to just follow him.
Seuss - Confirmed town.
SagaZ - Tentative, needs to post more. His first post could just as much be a misguided town as it could be a mafia.
onlywonderboy - Tentative, needs to post more for better read.
July617 - Tentative, light mafia read. He hasn't contributed much in regards to reads and mostly just tried to direct town to being more talkative (which I'll grant is a pro town direction), but he didn't actually personally contribute his actions towards this direction (which is the suspicious part).
nyxnyxnyx - Moderate mafia read. I don't think blindly following an unconfirmed town, no matter how rational they appear, is something a town should ever want to do. That being said, the fact that his only contribution is pointing us in that direction makes it even more suspicious. I could be misreading a town here but at this point he's the most suspicious person to me outside the SagaZ/istandwithmitt duo.
E00e - Tentative, light town read. His one big post could go either way. I like how he defended his thoughts when attacked, but he needs to post more for me to get a better read.
istandwithmitt - Suspicious, light mafia read. Not sure what to make of his early aggression against SagaZ. It would definitely help if he posted more.
I don't know how to play Mafia do I don't want to over think reads and whatnot. My logic is that townies are gona lose if we go into disarray, so blindly following a guy who happens to sound reasonable enough is a good bet, since the downside is a blowout if you were scum rather than an eventual loss from disarray anyway.
It's not that safe of a bet. He could just as easily be a scum who started being active early to avoid suspicion. I'm not claiming Odin is scum, but your logic is far from infallible. I'd rather rally around the guy making the most sense, not the guy making some sense first. Im most interested in Susses' reads since we know he's not scum.
You can't just blindly follow people though because then no one gets your reads. You have to establish your own opinions and thoughts and convey them in a way to the town such that they can trust you.
Even if you're completely uncertain on your own reads, it still has the added benefit of giving everyone else a read on you. You've given us nothing. I might have been a little quick to name you my number one mafia though because that is a believable town mistake to make.
I'm going to retract my "most susupicious" tag on nyxnyxnyx for now and say that it's between nyxnyxnyx/July617/SagaZ/istandwithmitt at this point. If I had to vote right now though, it would almost 100% be between one of those four.
This guy is posting nothingness. Trying to get people to make calls while actually providing nothing wrt scumminess of players. You all can bandwagon this vote, no worries.
The problem Nyx is that you've posted this same comment 5 times. You should explain why you feel I'm trustworthy. I've tried to make it pretty clear what and what and why I think about people. You aren't even trying to.
You get pinged throughout the day as having only made one early aggression post. People want your thoughts and for you to respond to concerns.
What do you do?
You do the same exact thing on another person. Unless you give something to me to convince me otherwise or someone else fucks up even more (which I think you've raised the bar pretty hard here so that will be difficult), I'm not changing my vote at this point.
Yeah...mitt isn't making a strong case for himself here. His play is just...bad. Like he certainly isn't helping himself if he's mafia or town. He's kinda just hurting whatever team he's on.
On October 15 2013 04:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: You get pinged throughout the day as having only made one early aggression post. People want your thoughts and for you to respond to concerns.
What do you do?
You do the same exact thing on another person. Unless you give something to me to convince me otherwise or someone else fucks up even more (which I think you've raised the bar pretty hard here so that will be difficult), I'm not changing my vote at this point.
On October 15 2013 04:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: You get pinged throughout the day as having only made one early aggression post. People want your thoughts and for you to respond to concerns.
What do you do?
You do the same exact thing on another person. Unless you give something to me to convince me otherwise or someone else fucks up even more (which I think you've raised the bar pretty hard here so that will be difficult), I'm not changing my vote at this point.
Yeah sorry for posting about who I think is scum.
That's not the issue.
The issue is your reasons are lackluster and you've only made two posts in this entire thread. Early on people have pinged you as suspicious and why they think that and you didn't respond to any of them.
I encourage you, nay I challenge you to actually put some thought into this game and convince me you're town, or at the very least that someone else is a better lynch at this point.
On October 15 2013 04:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: You get pinged throughout the day as having only made one early aggression post. People want your thoughts and for you to respond to concerns.
What do you do?
You do the same exact thing on another person. Unless you give something to me to convince me otherwise or someone else fucks up even more (which I think you've raised the bar pretty hard here so that will be difficult), I'm not changing my vote at this point.
Yeah sorry for posting about who I think is scum.
That's not the issue.
The issue is your reasons are lackluster and you've only made two posts in this entire thread. Early on people have pinged you as suspicious and why they think that and you didn't respond to any of them.
I encourage you, nay I challenge you to actually put some thought into this game and convince me you're town, or at the very least that someone else is a better lynch at this point.
I just posted who I think is scum. I'm not going to try & convince people I'm town (hint: it's because it's impossible). If you think I'm scum, you should have a reason for it & not "LOL wtf." Hope this helps!
Currently, istandwithmitt is set to be lynched. to deadline. Remember, voting is mandatory!
If there are errors, please let us know.
On October 15 2013 04:35 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: playerboy345
Note that you're supposed to ##unvote first if you want to change your vote (you can do it in the same post). I accepted your vote change but please try to remember to do it in the future, thanks.
On October 15 2013 04:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: You get pinged throughout the day as having only made one early aggression post. People want your thoughts and for you to respond to concerns.
What do you do?
You do the same exact thing on another person. Unless you give something to me to convince me otherwise or someone else fucks up even more (which I think you've raised the bar pretty hard here so that will be difficult), I'm not changing my vote at this point.
Yeah sorry for posting about who I think is scum.
That's not the issue.
The issue is your reasons are lackluster and you've only made two posts in this entire thread. Early on people have pinged you as suspicious and why they think that and you didn't respond to any of them.
I encourage you, nay I challenge you to actually put some thought into this game and convince me you're town, or at the very least that someone else is a better lynch at this point.
I just posted who I think is scum. I'm not going to try & convince people I'm town (hint: it's because it's impossible). If you think I'm scum, you should have a reason for it & not "LOL wtf." Hope this helps!
I and many others have given reasons for being suspicious of you.
Like, you didn't even give a reason why you switched your vote off of SagaZ. Is he not suspicious anymore to you or are you just more convinced of playerboy345?
I'm sorry if my vote post on you was disrespectful I just thought it came from nowhere. I expected the next post you would make would address at least one of the people who pinged you as suspicious.
I'm not going to argue with you. Either you shape up and post in a style that doesn't invite us to get into long, time-consuming, and pointless arguments, or we're lynching you on principle.
On October 15 2013 04:33 onlywonderboy wrote: It's not that safe of a bet. He could just as easily be a scum who started being active early to avoid suspicion. I'm not claiming Odin is scum, but your logic is far from infallible. I'd rather rally around the guy making the most sense, not the guy making some sense first. Im most interested in Susses' reads since we know he's not scum.
You guys know for a fact that I'm not scum, but I'd like to remind you that I'm the only person in the game with zero people I can 100% trust. The fact that you know I'm genuine helps, but it doesn't make my reads correct.
These are just my initial impressions. I'm uncertain about a few people because we really haven't seen enough of them to truly judge. In any case, these are not conclusions but working hypotheses. I'll change them at the drop of a hat if I find reasons to change my opinion.
On October 15 2013 04:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Like, you didn't even give a reason why you switched your vote off of SagaZ. Is he not suspicious anymore to you or are you just more convinced of playerboy345?
I'm sorry if my vote post on you was disrespectful I just thought it came from nowhere. I expected the next post you would make would address at least one of the people who pinged you as suspicious.
I addressed why I think he is scum in the post where I voted for him. I do think he is scummier than SagaZ. My vote's going to be on whoever I think is scummiest all game & I think everyone else should do the same so I don't know why you would be surprised by me being willing to change especially after reading so many posts.
If you want me to respond to something, you're welcome to pose it to me. I saw people posting suspicions on me or whatever but nothing seemed worthwhile to address.
On October 15 2013 04:51 Seuss wrote: ##vote: istandwithmitt
I'm not going to argue with you. Either you shape up and post in a style that doesn't invite us to get into long, time-consuming, and pointless arguments, or we're lynching you on principle.
On October 15 2013 04:33 onlywonderboy wrote: It's not that safe of a bet. He could just as easily be a scum who started being active early to avoid suspicion. I'm not claiming Odin is scum, but your logic is far from infallible. I'd rather rally around the guy making the most sense, not the guy making some sense first. Im most interested in Susses' reads since we know he's not scum.
You guys know for a fact that I'm not scum, but I'd like to remind you that I'm the only person in the game with zero people I can 100% trust. The fact that you know I'm genuine helps, but it doesn't make my reads correct.
These are just my initial impressions. I'm uncertain about a few people because we really haven't seen enough of them to truly judge. In any case, these are not conclusions but working hypotheses. I'll change them at the drop of a hat if I find reasons to change my opinion.
How am I "worthless" when you evidently have one of the same scumreads as me?
First impressions: going into this I was feeling most uncomfortable with nyxnyxnyx, blindly following some1 sounds like a pretty bad idea for a town, and especially stating it in the thread sounds more to me like he was trying to get onto OdinOfPergo's good side. And the I read istandwithmitt's post and I'm like wtf. He voted for me at the beginning and I thought it was alright, aggressive play-style pointing fingers early to get some heat and get the discussion going, but then instead of making use of it he just go silent. And now this switcharoo vote with no explanation and abrasive behavior?
On October 15 2013 05:01 OdinOfPergo wrote: Istand, even to this point, if anyone goes through your filter, you haven't posted anything useful to support yourself.
@Suess,
I'm curious on why you think Nyx is town though. His 5? post consist of nothing but pretty much the same statement. I'm less than sold on the idea.
posting about who you think is scum == useful
a million words where you don't talk about who you think is scum =/= useful
How about instead of posting about how I'm unpleasant or whatever the argument is right now, people tell me what they think of playerboy especially wrt what I posted about him.
On October 15 2013 05:01 OdinOfPergo wrote: Istand, even to this point, if anyone goes through your filter, you haven't posted anything useful to support yourself.
@Suess,
I'm curious on why you think Nyx is town though. His 5? post consist of nothing but pretty much the same statement. I'm less than sold on the idea.
At the time nyxnyxnyx wanted to blindly follow you the discussion that was going on was chaotic, without purpose, and generally a mass of confusion and bad assumptions on all sides. Killing the conversation so that we could move on to actually hunting scum needed to happen.
It is slightly suspect. It's possible both you and he are actually mafia, and he's just chiming in to increase confidence in your authenticity. However, so long as I think you're a townie and contributing positively to the game, nyxnyxnyx is also likely a townie because as a mafia he wouldn't gain anything by killing a disruptive conversation or following the lead of a proactive townie.
It looks like most things about my post were cleared up thanks to Seuss. Id just like to emphasize that at no point I said I wanted the cop to come out, I wanted the cop to know when to come out. As I have learned now the general consensus is that they should only do it when they are about to be lynched. I did not know that when making my post and it is really not a trivial answer. I am currently liking (-> thinking they are town) Odin and GGTemplar because they explain their posts and intentions. Seuss would also be in that category but he is already confirmed town. I have a hard timing finding Mafia with evidence to back it up. Playerboy has a lot of funny posts that dont really help, but this is not too bad imo. Istandwithmitt does not seem to try to create a good discussion atmosphere but again that is not too bad.
Well here I am again, sorry I had a long sleep today, Odin I think your reads are good reads are strong, I can see why you pegged me as possible scum, I was just trying to talk and move things along but with that said yeah I should of added more onto my post's and contributed/clarified/spoke-up with ideas of my own.
My own personal reads ?
I don't really have confidence in anyone as of yet, I mean I know a good chunk of us are town but none of the post's here give much info (Besides mitt and playerboy going at each other . which is weird ) like i said again in a previous post we should be talking more but like E00e said we'll have a hard time finding mafia without actual evidence to back it up . So i've really got nothing so far. I'm just trying to read everyone safely and calmly.
reading thru the thread, i'd like to caution people against jumping on the mitt vote. i think what we need to decide on is whether we want to (a) vote a useless townie who might be scum or (b) vote an active townie who we have a strong scum read on.
the reason why i'd caution town to vote mitt is because before the game even started, i was doing some joke votes and istandwithmitt goes:
On October 10 2013 14:55 istandwithmitt wrote: Did this start? ##vote balla24 he's voting himself you wyould not do this as town
if we had gotten our pm's at this point, i would have thought this was some miserable scum play. but role pm's hadn't even been sent out at that point! so in conclusion, just keep in mind his in-game posting seems much in line with his pre-game posting.
i think worst case if by the end of d1 we don't see a strong scum case against anyone in particular, mitt is an easy candidate. however given that we have another 24 hours at this point, let's not get pigeon-holed on mitt as there may be stronger candidates out there. i for one would perhaps put Vonthin and GGTemplar in that list, depending on what kind of posts they make in the next 24 hours. not necessarily saying i think they're scum at the moment, but i would like to hear more from them.
the reason i'm singling these 2 out atm is because GGTemplar randomly hones into a pretty mild exchange between Sagaz and mitt and starts postulating about in what scenarios Sagaz is mafia or mitt is mafia, but them both being mafia are mutually exclusive. this seems like either an attempt to appear helpful while not being helpful at all, or a misguided attempt to be helpful, as their exchange seemed pretty minor / un-noteworthy and he's not providing any real analysis but more like game theory.
as for Vonthin, all he does is jump upon the RNG proposal with a massive amount of risk aversion. in this kind of situation, i'm inclined to find mafia to be more risk averse than a townie. as mafia, you'd like to avoid being in the hot seat at any cost possible, whereas as town, my general feeling is that i'm less afraid of being scrutinized because i have nothing to hide. Vonthin also seems to completely miss the fact that Odin isn't actually proposing an RNG, but implicitly proposing RNG as a means to an end -- as a tool to force people to do their best to wriggle out of the hot seat.
also lawl, adding July to that list, just read his post above. July, please give us some reads within the next 12 hours -- that should be enough time for you to "safely and calmly" get your reads together.
On October 15 2013 11:29 Bereft wrote: also lawl, adding July to that list, just read his post above. July, please give us some reads within the next 12 hours -- that should be enough time for you to "safely and calmly" get your reads together.
We don't actually need every last poster giving a full list of reads. In fact, it's a fairly decent way for mafia members to look productive without actually contributing anything useful.
The thread is also drawing very quiet, which is good news for the mafia, so I'm going to incite some discussion.
At this point I believe istandwithmitt is just an absolutely terrible player/communicator. He's confrontational, dogmatic, egotistical, and generally a pain in the butt, but he's drawn way, way more negative attention to himself than makes sense for mafia. Bereft is right that we should be focusing on finding other targets right now.
To that end, I believe the two most likely mafia players are SagaZ and July617. I'll present each case in turn.
While he was the first player to post following the start of the game, he's been a sparse participant since. His first post immediately drew suspicion for a number of reasons.
1. Despite its word count it's actually very light on content. 2. The actual suggestions contained within are highly questionable.
Observe:
On October 14 2013 11:26 SagaZ wrote: As a disclaimer early, I think we should all agree on something. We are all newbies here, so if you fuck up or say something dumb, don't play the "oh sorry, I am new I didn't know". [/color]
[color=green]Seuss is our confirmed town, we should try to organize around him. For a day 1 lynch, I think lynching some1 innactive is the best way to go.[/color] Having innactive players around just give mafia the opportunity to sit back and do nothing while town runs around screaming at each other. So give information about yourself if you can, so that others will be able to read you easy.
My stance this early is easy: I will vote for people that post nothing worthy or nothing at all, unless some1 slips. I am also more likely to vote for people that say suspicious stuff and then say "sorry I didn't know I am new"
SagaZ spends both the first and last paragraphs primarily rambling about how people shouldn't play the newbie card. If all he really wanted to do was encourage newbies to post, as he later claimed, he could easily have done so with a far more positive tone. He doesn't sound like he's encouraging newbies as much as discouraging them.
While he does make two seemingly reasonable suggestions, they are obvious and ultimately counter-productive. As the sole confirmed townie in the game, my lifespan is likely to be short. Rallying around me exclusively would simply set the town up for trouble upon my inevitable death. Similarly, lynching players who'll simply be modkilled does nothing for the town either.
So SagaZ' first post discouraged activity and made no useful suggestions. That's enough to arouse suspicion, but not to conclude he is mafia.
That brings us to his second post:
On October 14 2013 20:11 SagaZ wrote: Of course I meant lurker lynch, afkers will get modkilled after all. If one guy is not saying anything in the thread or very little, but still turn out to vote for people without giving reasoning... that would be very scum telling to me. I guess it is fairly obvious to everyone, but pointing it out will make them talk whether they want it or not, and that gives information. I took the opportunity of the first post to basically say "game started, don't hide behind your inexperience and post".
For town to win we need 2 thing: - Get everyone active - Organize around our confirmed towny Seuss
@nyxnyxnyx: Care to explain why you trust Odin? Him being so hyper posty makes me nervous but he actually present points for us to discuss on, which creates discussion and is therefore good for town. It is weird to me at least that you come in, decide to side with odin even thought we have a confirmed townie.
In this post he claims he meant "lurker" when he said "inactive". However, in his first post he clearly stated that his potential vote targets included those who posted "nothing at all". SagaZ is backpedaling here, and making it seem reasonable by repeating the reasoning that undermined his previous position. He also very carefully drops his excuse for the weird newbie-discouraging rambling at the end of an unrelated paragraph, burying it.
"Getting everyone active" is an important step for towns looking to win, but SagaZ doesn't actually have any suggestions on how to do that, and doesn't participate enough himself. He again says everyone should organize around me, also without suggesting how or acknowledging the obvious flaw in the strategy (e.g. I'm a dead man walking).
Finally, he ends the post promoting discord. While nyxnyxnyx' decision to trust Odin could have used some additional vetting, at that point Odin was at the nexus of a fairly chaotic argument, and rallying behind his "let's randomly pick someone and put them in the hotseat to get information flowing" idea would have killed a lot of the useless chatter while promoting helpful discussion. Questioning nyxnyxnyx at this point only served to perpetuate the pointless debate, and promote distrust.
SagaZ third post was entirely inconsequential, and above analysis. His fourth post at least pretended to have substance:
On October 15 2013 05:02 SagaZ wrote: First impressions: going into this I was feeling most uncomfortable with nyxnyxnyx, blindly following some1 sounds like a pretty bad idea for a town, and especially stating it in the thread sounds more to me like he was trying to get onto OdinOfPergo's good side. And the I read istandwithmitt's post and I'm like wtf. He voted for me at the beginning and I thought it was alright, aggressive play-style pointing fingers early to get some heat and get the discussion going, but then instead of making use of it he just go silent. And now this switcharoo vote with no explanation and abrasive behavior?
There are a lot of words in this post, but it essentially says nothing. The entire latter half is a rehash of what everyone else had already said about istandwithmitt. The former half mostly repeats his previous misgivings about nyxnyxnyx' decision, adding an extra touch of distrust of both nyx and Odin. No progress towards anything happens over the course of these paragraphs.
Finally, there's SagaZ latest post:
On October 15 2013 05:20 SagaZ wrote: I'd like to hear what playerboy345 has to say to Istandwithmitt's accusations; just complete the weird triangle between them 2 and E00e.
At this point debating with istandwithmitt was utterly pointless, whoever was doing it. I had said as much earlier. Promoting a useless discussion is never helpful to the town.
It is for these reasons that I believe SagaZ has a very high probability of being mafia, and is worthy of a lynching.
The only useful contribution he's made was his response to Odin's confusing RNG plan. At the time Odin's confusing manner of communicating made it seem like the plan was to randomly select someone, lynch them, and call it a day. That ultimately wasn't what Odin was aiming for, but at the time it seemed that way and if July hadn't responded as he did someone else would have.
Which brings us to his other 5 posts. They all say essentially the same thing, "I don't want to lynch anyone yet, let's wait and talk more." If everyone was jumping to conclusions in the first four hours istandwithmitt style that might have been fine, but with practically half our time spent he's still waiting for a sign from God (or is it the Godfather?).
The only player who has contributed less is Balla24, who hasn't posted at all.
Keeping his head this low, and trying to keep people deferring the lynching decision as long as possible, makes it a high probability that July617 is mafia.
Until such time as either or both of these individuals has a convincing defense established, it's my preference that we lynch one of them over istandwithmitt, much as it pains me.
@seuss I'll give you that , my past five posts over and over again have been the pretty much the same thing, only because I really don't have an idea of who I should focus my attention to. Yes istandwithmitt is an easy lynch because of how he's acting but I believe there are better lynches out there. As to who ? I'm not so sure, I wish i could say SagaZ but he could just be playing bad town . And Whether it is bad town play or he's secretly mafia, I can't lean to either side without an explanation from him .
The main problem people seem to have is my opening post where I say I don't like inactivity basically. Yes, poor choice of words, but OP states itself that people that don't vote get modkill, it is obvious that I am referencing to people lurking and just popping in to vote, I feel it is just picking on the word used and not against the idea. Think of it from my point of view, game started, no1's posting, half an hour passed, I want to play but apparently no1's around. Oh well, let's make the first post then, you say it lacks content what what do you expect on the first post of the game? Like if town loses the game because mafia blended in the lurkers I'm going to get very mad, and that's not good for my elo. No suggestion to make town active? By saying people that don't contribute will be put on the chopping block, you indirectly put pressure on them and you give something to talk about. It's either this or proposing RNG, which Odin did.
Organizing around you: yes, you will probably die day 1, it is no big deal. I don't think we can make a late game plan for the rest of the game centering around some1. In my opinion it's better to get structure even if it is only for the first day than none at all. You are the only confirmed town, if you can direct the conversation like you are trying to do in that last post then we will be on a good road for the rest of the game, whether you're alive or not.
My nyxnyxnyx distrust: Yo I am town, I feel alone, I have no clue who is who. So I am here trying to figure out who looks mafia, there comes nyxnyxnyx saying he will blindly follow Odin... Like if it was me, I would never do that, there are so many factors and I don't want to be that guy that got fooled by the mafia on his first game. So yeah it looks very weird to me, especially because of how apologetic everything is in his post.
My lack of content: It is true, I guess I focused more on trying to get other people to talk than to actually say what I think so there it is; You put July617 as your other strongest tell, I just find it odd that you don't include Vonthin in it too. For me they are basically the same person right now, they don't like the RNG solution and are waiting for more stuff to happen before deciding their vote. I don't like it because it doesn't help anyone to not share what you think and waiting for others to do the talking. Again back at my I don't like innactives thingy. I honestly don't feel them particularly suspicious although i get more nervous with every hour that passes where they haven't posted.
That's what I have on the topics that you put and I think should be focused on. Now since I will leave in an hour or so I will leave the hightest ranked persons on my personal scumlist: number 1; and I feel a bit dirty about agreeing with mitt: playerboy345. It appears to me that the only talks about inconcecuential things: RNG proposition and E00e's miss use of words (the cop thing)
number 2; onlywonderboy. Just absolute nothingness, honestly I think he has said even less than july. I'm not too sure how to express it but, all of what he says is merely looking at the problem, saying "yeah it can be either that or that" and ending on that. "organizing is fine, but if you are mistaken it will be bad" "lynching lurkers is cool, but so is lynching suspicious persons" "he could be scum.. or not" "mitt is making a bad play for his team, whether it's town or mafia"
nyxnyxnyx for reasons I explained above, but to reiterate I am unable to trust anyone on day 1 if he's not 100% confirmed. And again I will say it, if nyx really wants to trust someone, there's the confirmed town right here before his eyes, why not take it instead of making a leap of faith?
Hey guys. Im on a bus home right now, like i said pregame random plans came up. Ive read up on the thread on the bus and will be back at 100 percent in 3 hrs. I will post my thoughts then as i suck hard at typong on my phone. After that ill be here till vote.
After catching up after I went to sleep/work I am casting my vote for istandwithmitt
##vote: istandwithmitt
Agree with the other people who voted for him(Suess/Odin), posts are really negative and bring bad attention to him, he might just be a townie with poor communication skills but still has the highest chances for being a scum from what I've read
On October 14 2013 17:35 playerboy345 wrote: No the discussion isn't pointless - it forces people to talk which is a good thing.
And going ballsdeep on SagaZ AND istandwith mitt....
Dude I can't even be bothered to mention the last paragraph: ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?
Yes it is good that people talk, however there might be other more rewarding ways to do that. I think that meta discussions about this topic are pointless too, so I wont argue about that more.
Could you explain your rage about the last paragraph? From your post I dont understand the problem with it and I said everything very calmly and careful.
PB followed with this The last line irks me about this post. Suess is right about this. Why are you jumping on him so hard? It's plain as day to me he just made a mistake. You should probably of followed up in a manner such as I just did a paragraph above this one. This looks pretty bad from other perspectives. It isn't enough for me to change my read on you yet. But you'd best explain the reasoning behind this attempt at a bandwagon. You're trying to flesh people out. I like that. But you do actually need to have evidence for your claims.
On October 14 2013 17:53 playerboy345 wrote: I'm against lynching afkers. Lurkers are kind of a different story though, we have to force those to post.
Honestly your suggesting isn't lynching someone randomly, it's lynching whoever is the scummiest (something I agree with). Lynching afkers should never happen in my opinion as it's more likely to set us back then anything else.
I HATE E00e!!!! SERIOUSLY WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?
I'm not jumping on him, I'm just extremely pissed off at that post in general. I didn't want to completely explain my thought process because that way scum doesn't have to do anything and I'm just spitting everything out for them :/
I read EE0e's post as a soft role-claim. What does this do for us at DAY FUCKING ONE? Even if he isn't a cop, WHY DO YOU EVEN BRING IT UP? I think most people are smart enough not to claim their BLUE role at the beginning of day 1 when there is basically no danger of being lynched or any information in the game for that matter.
I think he just gave scum an easy target to nightkill, but then again they could also target town leaders (in which case they could just nightkill him day 2 or push a lynch on him because he hasn't been targeted that night (if he is indeed town)).
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
Ballsy. What makes you think that if one is mafia the other can't be?
On October 14 2013 17:19 E00e wrote: Hello everyone, my first post!
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
I'd like to think this is a pro-town post because I agree with your point about the afk-lynch discussion when we've still got like 36 hours left to decide.
I don't know what to make of you siding with istandwithmitt against SagaZ yet as it could mean a lot of different things based on what assumptions I go with. For example:
-If SagaZ is mafia and istandwithmitt is town, you could be bussing your mafia under the table OR you could just be getting a good mafia read like another townie.
-If SagaZ is town and istandwithmitt is mafia, you could be working with your mafia to go for a relatively easy and suspicious first lynch OR you could just be drawing an incorrect mafia read as a well-meaning townie.
And I'm not sure what to make of your last paragraph regarding the cop. According to you, it's too early to discuss lynching afks because we have a lot of time left on Day 1 (which I agree with), but youre willing to go even further and discuss on what circumstances in future days the cop should come out? I'd say it's too early to discuss that as well here, or possibly not even relevant as maybe it's something you should ask your coach.
Okay so you think he is pro-town because a first post and because he agrees on something with you? I'm sorry, I don't agree with your read here.
So instead of analysing this post word for word (I barely slept today and I don't want to delay this post too much as I want to put some content out there) I'll just ask you why you are so sure that either SagaZ OR istwithandmitt are scum (and why they can't be scum mates)
On October 15 2013 03:18 Seuss wrote: I think it's fair to assume E00e simply didn't know discussing the cop wasn't useful. When he got pounced on for his poor suggestion no one explained why it was bad. In fact, it wasn't until a few posts ago that the explanation actually came out (i.e. the cop should only announce themselves if they're going to get lynched). Despite the vitriol thrown at him, E00e was polite and tried to kill the flaming. At the moment suspecting him of anything beyond being a newbie is a waste of time.
Not useful? I disagree, it's DISADVANTAGEOUS for town to be discussing blue roles, especially this early in the game.
Also I'm sorry for being a bit harsh with my posting, it's just that his post came off as a soft-claim which could mean we lost a blue role tonight.
On October 15 2013 04:35 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: playerboy345
This guy is posting nothingness. Trying to get people to make calls while actually providing nothing wrt scumminess of players. You all can bandwagon this vote, no worries.
Well, see ya
Nice analysis mate, town will win for sure if you keep up like this. /sarcasm
Seriously IF you are going to vote me you better provide some thoughts and refer to posts that make you think I am scum so I can defend myself, oh and might I add it is time for you to defend yourself instead of trying to fend it off by blaming someone else?
On October 15 2013 04:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: You get pinged throughout the day as having only made one early aggression post. People want your thoughts and for you to respond to concerns.
What do you do?
You do the same exact thing on another person. Unless you give something to me to convince me otherwise or someone else fucks up even more (which I think you've raised the bar pretty hard here so that will be difficult), I'm not changing my vote at this point.
Yeah sorry for posting about who I think is scum.
That is not the problem - the problem is not backing it up properly with evidence/arguments.
On October 15 2013 04:47 istandwithmitt wrote: I just posted who I think is scum. I'm not going to try & convince people I'm town (hint: it's because it's impossible). If you think I'm scum, you should have a reason for it & not "LOL wtf." Hope this helps!
You GOT to be kidding me right now, the goal of town is to convince people you are town, and hint - no it's not impossible. AND WE SHOULD POST REASONING, DUDE ARE YOU EVEN SERIOUS RIGHT NOW? READ THROUGH YOUR OWN POSTS.
You better flip scum if you get lynched tonight.....
Ok so I read the post you posted after the one above and I'm not even going to bother reading it, you are purely repeating yourself.
##VOTE:istandwithmitt
On October 15 2013 05:06 istandwithmitt wrote: How about instead of posting about how I'm unpleasant or whatever the argument is right now, people tell me what they think of playerboy especially wrt what I posted about him.
Well, see ya
.... you bring nothing to the table, if you are town you are the worst townie in the history of mafia.
On October 15 2013 11:27 Bereft wrote: ok i'm back.
reading thru the thread, i'd like to caution people against jumping on the mitt vote. i think what we need to decide on is whether we want to (a) vote a useless townie who might be scum or (b) vote an active townie who we have a strong scum read on.
the reason why i'd caution town to vote mitt is because before the game even started, i was doing some joke votes and istandwithmitt goes:
On October 10 2013 14:55 istandwithmitt wrote: Did this start? ##vote balla24 he's voting himself you wyould not do this as town
if we had gotten our pm's at this point, i would have thought this was some miserable scum play. but role pm's hadn't even been sent out at that point! so in conclusion, just keep in mind his in-game posting seems much in line with his pre-game posting.
i think worst case if by the end of d1 we don't see a strong scum case against anyone in particular, mitt is an easy candidate. however given that we have another 24 hours at this point, let's not get pigeon-holed on mitt as there may be stronger candidates out there. i for one would perhaps put Vonthin and GGTemplar in that list, depending on what kind of posts they make in the next 24 hours. not necessarily saying i think they're scum at the moment, but i would like to hear more from them.
the reason i'm singling these 2 out atm is because GGTemplar randomly hones into a pretty mild exchange between Sagaz and mitt and starts postulating about in what scenarios Sagaz is mafia or mitt is mafia, but them both being mafia are mutually exclusive. this seems like either an attempt to appear helpful while not being helpful at all, or a misguided attempt to be helpful, as their exchange seemed pretty minor / un-noteworthy and he's not providing any real analysis but more like game theory.
as for Vonthin, all he does is jump upon the RNG proposal with a massive amount of risk aversion. in this kind of situation, i'm inclined to find mafia to be more risk averse than a townie. as mafia, you'd like to avoid being in the hot seat at any cost possible, whereas as town, my general feeling is that i'm less afraid of being scrutinized because i have nothing to hide. Vonthin also seems to completely miss the fact that Odin isn't actually proposing an RNG, but implicitly proposing RNG as a means to an end -- as a tool to force people to do their best to wriggle out of the hot seat.
To be honest - I want him to defend himself because he isn't even trying at this point. If he flips town we basically lost a townie due to him not giving a fuck and are behind.
Pre-game posting doesn't mean anything, in my opinion, and more importantly, it doesn't excuse him from making horrible posts and leaving the thread with one-liners.
On October 15 2013 18:54 SagaZ wrote: That's what I have on the topics that you put and I think should be focused on. Now since I will leave in an hour or so I will leave the hightest ranked persons on my personal scumlist: number 1; and I feel a bit dirty about agreeing with mitt: playerboy345. It appears to me that the only talks about inconcecuential things: RNG proposition and E00e's miss use of words (the cop thing)
I'm sorry but I disagree, I'd advise you to read through my filter, if you still think so afterwards feel free to point me to the posts.
On October 15 2013 20:45 Vonthin wrote: After catching up after I went to sleep/work I am casting my vote for istandwithmitt
##vote: istandwithmitt
Agree with the other people who voted for him(Suess/Odin), posts are really negative and bring bad attention to him, he might just be a townie with poor communication skills but still has the highest chances for being a scum from what I've read
seriously? has the "highest chances for being a scum" based on what analysis exactly? did you even read my or Seuss' post?
@playerboy, I stand behind the fact I think he's a poor lynch candidate. he's obviously incapable of providing some critical analysis to defend himself, but more importantly, regardless of what he flips, it gives us zero new information. and he's such an easy target for mafia to bandwagon around at this point. I think there are stronger candidates out there, and in the chance there's a vig, we can leave him to take care of mitt.
I want istandwithmitt to write a proper response though, he is playing ALOT like heavenz, just having a fuck it all attitude and not providing any information. If he is town he's just screwing us over.
Agreed, his play just doesn't make sense. Either he's a bad town or the ballsiest mafia player I've seen. I'm leaning towards just bad town. Still not sure who I want to vote for, need to reread the thread a bit, but I liked Suess' analysis of July and am leaning towards him as scummy.
On October 15 2013 20:45 Vonthin wrote: After catching up after I went to sleep/work I am casting my vote for istandwithmitt
##vote: istandwithmitt
Agree with the other people who voted for him(Suess/Odin), posts are really negative and bring bad attention to him, he might just be a townie with poor communication skills but still has the highest chances for being a scum from what I've read
seriously? has the "highest chances for being a scum" based on what analysis exactly? did you even read my or Seuss' post?
##Vote: Vonthin
I did read your post and Suess' posts
Here is reasons why I voted for him
1. He is super quick to jump the gun to lynch someone, votes after seeing SagaZ's very first post saying we should lynch inactive
2. His very next post he switches and votes for playerboy by saying he posts nothing worthwhile(he has some point here, a good portion of his posts don't say much besides i agree with x but a lot of those posts came after he voted against him)
3. Makes shit posts saying things like "Good poast" after someone votes against him, then just proceeds to argue poorly trying to justify his voting and being 2 confrontational plus no real analysis.
He seems the scummiest to me, there are some people that seem scummy but nothing as glaring as him. I am still contemplating switching my vote to Nyx but want to see another post or two from him. Reasons for thinking he is scum so far: Hasn't said almost anything besides that he is gonna blindly follow Odin when he isn't a confirmed town and that odin has a plan because we don't have one the townies auto lose! Then he just posts once more saying he is voting for Mitt and nothing else
I agree he isn't contributing anything of value, but don't you think it's odd that if he's mafia he would be attracting so much attention to himself? Unless this is some next level reverse psychology I don't see him being mafia and playing so aggro.
I don't actually think istandwithmitt is mafia, although he is a bad poster. Unfortunately I'll miss out on last few hours because Asian time zone OP. Good luck guys!
On October 16 2013 00:20 nyxnyxnyx wrote: I don't actually think istandwithmitt is mafia, although he is a bad poster. Unfortunately I'll miss out on last few hours because Asian time zone OP. Good luck guys!
doesn't matter - for all you know when he comes back to the thread he'll read the new posts and change his mind, and your vote will be moot. trust your gut and vote accordingly. if you blindly sheep like this and you're town, I guarantee you'll get mislynched.
On October 15 2013 23:08 playerboy345 wrote: Guys please post some stuff, ANYTHING.
Sorry, US Timezones at work. I was up until 3:30 AM my time writing my post and just woke up.
Also, I really highly doubt E00e was role claiming. If you check his post history he was asking about the cop before the game even started. There's a chance he's the cop, but he couldn't have known he was going to be the cop when he first asked questions about how the cop worked.
On October 15 2013 20:45 Vonthin wrote: After catching up after I went to sleep/work I am casting my vote for istandwithmitt
##vote: istandwithmitt
Agree with the other people who voted for him(Suess/Odin), posts are really negative and bring bad attention to him, he might just be a townie with poor communication skills but still has the highest chances for being a scum from what I've read
On October 15 2013 20:45 Vonthin wrote: After catching up after I went to sleep/work I am casting my vote for istandwithmitt
##vote: istandwithmitt
Agree with the other people who voted for him(Suess/Odin), posts are really negative and bring bad attention to him, he might just be a townie with poor communication skills but still has the highest chances for being a scum from what I've read
seriously? has the "highest chances for being a scum" based on what analysis exactly? did you even read my or Seuss' post?
##Vote: Vonthin
I did read your post and Suess' posts
Here is reasons why I voted for him
1. He is super quick to jump the gun to lynch someone, votes after seeing SagaZ's very first post saying we should lynch inactive
2. His very next post he switches and votes for playerboy by saying he posts nothing worthwhile(he has some point here, a good portion of his posts don't say much besides i agree with x but a lot of those posts came after he voted against him)
3. Makes shit posts saying things like "Good poast" after someone votes against him, then just proceeds to argue poorly trying to justify his voting and being 2 confrontational plus no real analysis.
He seems the scummiest to me, there are some people that seem scummy but nothing as glaring as him. I am still contemplating switching my vote to Nyx but want to see another post or two from him. Reasons for thinking he is scum so far: Hasn't said almost anything besides that he is gonna blindly follow Odin when he isn't a confirmed town and that odin has a plan because we don't have one the townies auto lose! Then he just posts once more saying he is voting for Mitt and nothing else
I've given you a lot of slack previously because OdinOfPergo's RNG plan was, at first, completely incomprehensible. However, Bereft's arguments and your latest posts are changing my mind.
The arguments I made against istandwithmitt were mostly an attempt to get him to play nice. As you caught up on the thread, you should have seen the arguments Bereft I made saying essentially, "istandwithmitt is most likely the worst townie you'll ever see". It's the simplest explanation for his behavior.
Moreover, if we lynch istandwithmitt tonight we essentially lose any information our votes could give us. Like Bereft said it's really, really easy for the mafia to join the bandwagon. We're far better off lynching someone who we have a strong read on but isn't so "obvious".
Like you. You're jumping on the istandwithmitt bandwagon after we've clearly stated we're moving on and hoping to find a better target. Or July617, who in responding to me still managed to say practically nothing.
Speaking of whom:
On October 15 2013 18:11 July617 wrote: @seuss I'll give you that , my past five posts over and over again have been the pretty much the same thing, only because I really don't have an idea of who I should focus my attention to. Yes istandwithmitt is an easy lynch because of how he's acting but I believe there are better lynches out there. As to who ? I'm not so sure, I wish i could say SagaZ but he could just be playing bad town . And Whether it is bad town play or he's secretly mafia, I can't lean to either side without an explanation from him .
SagaZ has given his explanation. You need to have an opinion and now because you've managed to make another post that says absolutely nothing.
Your first sentence doesn't say anything, it just acknowledges my analysis with a weak excuse.
Your second sentence worthlessly retreads what we already know about mitt.
Your next sentences offer up a vague possibility without exploring it.
Your final sentence again defers your judgement until a later date.
My preference at this point is for us to lynch July617 or Vonthin; they are both valid candidates. We definitely have strong enough reads to leave istandwithmitt alone for the day.
On October 16 2013 00:43 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Because Odin probably knows how to play this game better than I do and he's voting for him right now.
Following Odin initially made sense, but continuing to follow him when he basically hasn't posted today and everything has changed fairly dramatically is literally an istandwithmitt level misplay.
Literally hasn't said anything besides he is following Odin, nothing about who is scummy. I don't see why a townie would just say they will just do what another person is doing especially if they don't know if they are mafia or not.
There's wayyyy too much stuff being thrown around in this thread right now, even though it is active it's the perfect conditions for mafia to hide in but also continue to stir up confusion.
Vonthin is jumping on the istandwithmitt case with good reasoning, however he is completely ignoring what Seuss and Bereft are saying about him. You should be directly bringing up counter-points to Seuss/Bereft who are saying that we should be looking at other targets since he's drawing wayy too much attention to himself, which doesn't make sense as a scum player.
My opinion on the matter is that istandwithmitt is a straight up troll, he's not looking to actually play this game he's just looking to fuck with it. We should leave him alive and just ignore him. If he's scum he's probably ruining their game just as much. If he's not trolling and he's serious then I would like to invite him to share what kind of experience he has with this game.
I'm still trying to form an opinion on who to vote for, so I am reading filters for the next bit of time. Bare with me.
One thing I would like to mention, though, that is somewhat irrelevant at the moment but might be relevant tomorrow: the E00 cop thing. In my opinion, e00's post was a perfectly reasonable topic (when should cop come out?) to talk about, albeit at a bad time since there were already several moving pieces in the game at that point. What is interesting however, is how playerboy jumps on it as if it was the worst possible thing a townie could do. It's like he didn't even think about what e00 was actually saying and wanted to gain town cred by stopping him from talking about something that he shouldn't be talking about (which would be things like, who cop should check, who doctor should save etc etc etc). Suspicious. I just wanted to get this out there so I don't forget tomorrow.
Lastly I'd like to apologize for not being around for the first 36 hours, but I am now fully active and will be until the end of the game (people from last game can vouch for my activity levels). Something came up and I had to go out of town where I barely had any time to read the thread and post from my phone.
@nyx To me that looks like you voted for Vonthin just because he voted on you, which is bad in my opinion.
At the moment I feel scummy about nyx and onlywonderboy. This is a gut feeling that I got after rereading a lot of posts just now. I cant really back it up except for the stuff other people already said which I dont want to repeat.
And by the way dont be fooled into agreeing with me because you think I am as playerboy put it soft claiming cop. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am the cop but in any case I dont think there is enough evidence to follow me so you should not do it.
istandwithmitt you have no intentions to play this game in a meaningful way. I hate that. I think you partly play to win and what you are doing is just not helping anyone. I agree with whoever said it before me that we should completely ignore anything istandwithmitt posts and kill them if we have no better lynch.
On October 16 2013 02:10 istandwithmitt wrote: I came to play but literally all anyone can say is that I'm trolling or worthless. I just want to get this over with at this point.
Playing mafia is 90% communication. I'm not sure what you expected was going to happen when you made terse, confrontational posts your modus operandi.
If you want to play, play. The only thing that's stopping you from communicating with us is you. If you'd just gone into detail about why you jumped on SagaZ so fast and why you swapped to playerboy345, rather than blithely posting "good poast" and "Yeah sorry for posting about who I think is scum." you wouldn't be the social pariah you are now.
Ok. I have a scum read on nyx, agree with E00e on this one..
Unfortunately it's not much since he hasn't done or said much, it's a gut feeling. He starts the game by blindly following Odin (who was just posting to start conversation, imo) and then suddenly switches his vote to Vonthin for either of the following reasons: (1) people called him out on randomly following Odin so he decides to follow other people or (2) Vonthin voted him.
He hasn't given any other reasoning for his play besides the fact that it's good to have town leaders to follow and a plan. I'm not liking him. However, I am hesitant to cast a vote because Vonthin casted a vote on him and he is also under suspicion from other players.
I'm on the fence with my read for Vonthin because he has some substance to his posts and posted his plan beforehand, the switch to nyx makes sense. I'd like to know why he's willing to let up on istandwithmitt, is it because you agree on what others have said about him or what?
On October 16 2013 03:54 Balla24 wrote: Ok. I have a scum read on nyx, agree with E00e on this one..
Unfortunately it's not much since he hasn't done or said much, it's a gut feeling. He starts the game by blindly following Odin (who was just posting to start conversation, imo) and then suddenly switches his vote to Vonthin for either of the following reasons: (1) people called him out on randomly following Odin so he decides to follow other people or (2) Vonthin voted him.
He hasn't given any other reasoning for his play besides the fact that it's good to have town leaders to follow and a plan. I'm not liking him. However, I am hesitant to cast a vote because Vonthin casted a vote on him and he is also under suspicion from other players.
I'm on the fence with my read for Vonthin because he has some substance to his posts and posted his plan beforehand, the switch to nyx makes sense. I'd like to know why he's willing to let up on istandwithmitt, is it because you agree on what others have said about him or what?
Did you read his past couple of posts? Looks like Mittgave up and will most likely be mod killed, even if he isn't gonna be mod killed there isn't a point in killing him today since we pretty much know everything about him and nyx started to look really scummy to me so I switched to him like I said I would if I saw someone who looked scummier than mitt, nyx looks incapable of forming an opinion for himself and just follows everyone else which doesn't really seem like a thing a townie would do.
Also one of the reasons(not that good of a reason tho imo) I initially voted for Mitt at the time was that I wasn't sure I would have time to be on and cast a vote before the deadline and he seemed like an alright choice at the time since everyone else voted and no one looked scummy enough to warrant a vote yet.
Anyways I have to go to work now and won't be back till late tonight unless I have time to check on my phone, hopefully I'm not hanged but it looks like I am just for disagreeing with a stupid rng plan and then hoping on an obvious bandwagon that people were starting to get off :/
The last time I will be able to check this thread for today (ingame day) is in 20 minutes. Just saying this so you wont be confused why I didnt change my vote if someone posts something important later.
Back, so july still hasn't said shit. At least Vonthin has.
Mitt to me looks like a third party role: a serial killer. What I think is he took the power to be immune to alignment checks, so now he plays extremely over the top mafia so we really don't feel comfortable lynching him, but since his cop check is going to be town he gets the free pass to play bad town, not help with anything and do his business at night. He has no problem pointing fingers at everyone with reasoning because for him he doesn't need one. Everyone is his enemy so he is happy with anyone dying. His last voting for himself move looks to me like a very bad martyr play.
I might be totally mistaken but this is how I see it, he plays in a way that is horrible for town if he is town, and horrible for mafia if he is mafia; I want to think there's more to this.
Vonthin looks scummier by the hour, he jumps on the mitt's ship, gets called out on it then backtracks. To go for a ??? vote on nyxnyxnyx. So I will say it, as you guys know I think nyxnyxnyx looks scummy. But how in hell would you go from a mitt vote to a nyx vote? it just doesn't makes sense, I feel like nyx is a direct downgrade to mitt in term of voting: they both don't say shit of any sort and make weird decision. Only that mitt looks completly crazy and nyx just looks lost. At this point in time I hightly doubt we will get more info out of a nyx lynch than the few that we get from a mitt lynch, so yeah, it is not the fact that he votes for nyx that bothers me, it's the fact that he unvotes mitt to go to nyx, and saying he switched because he wants more information, which is a direct contradiction with his vote.
We still have some time, Vonthin is under heavy fire and I hope he posts a good defense, july and onlywonderboy haven't say jack shit, nyx is still useless.
##Vote: istandwithmitt I explained my serial killer theory, even if I'm all up to kill scum, a killer going rampage in our town is one more kill at night. It is a role against town and lowering the amounts of deaths as soon as day 1 is too much tempting of an offer. And even if he isn't serial killer, he looks at least 70% mafia to me.
If you guys think the serial killer theory is dumb and you'd rather focus votes on people that will give info I will change my vote.
What I'd really like is to see: Vonthin making a defense, Istandwithmitt making a real defense. July answering to Seuss interogations and onlywonderboy's toughts.
U.S timezone's people, give me a break, this is day 1 here, day one and we've had four players being called for a lynch and a mighty big bandwagon going on with mitt nyx and vothin, with the exception of vothin right now, yes nyx and mitt do seem like viable choices, but are your reads really that sure that they're mafia? We could be lynching bad town and losing votes we may need later on down the road, I'd like to not have a reason to vote for mitt, but the way he's acting will only worsen with time. I'd like to believe that it will worsen with time but I really don't know, and I have to go with the fact's here and the fact's are that we need the town as strong and as trusted as can be if we're going to want to win, having bad and erratic play isn't helping us .
That's my opinion on the matter.
##Vote istandwithmitt
Nyx dont pressure vote, pressure voting is how mafia infiltrates peoples ranks, just explain yourself more, and be exact and absolute with your points.
On October 16 2013 01:06 Seuss wrote: Also, I really highly doubt E00e was role claiming. If you check his post history he was asking about the cop before the game even started. There's a chance he's the cop, but he couldn't have known he was going to be the cop when he first asked questions about how the cop worked.
Okay, so there is a chance he is not a cop, but it still annoys the crap out of me, why would you EVER discuss anything related to cops on the beginning of day 1? It just doesn't make sense to me, if you need information about such stuff you should ask your coach.
On October 16 2013 01:38 Balla24 wrote: One thing I would like to mention, though, that is somewhat irrelevant at the moment but might be relevant tomorrow: the E00 cop thing. In my opinion, e00's post was a perfectly reasonable topic (when should cop come out?) to talk about, albeit at a bad time since there were already several moving pieces in the game at that point. What is interesting however, is how playerboy jumps on it as if it was the worst possible thing a townie could do. It's like he didn't even think about what e00 was actually saying and wanted to gain town cred by stopping him from talking about something that he shouldn't be talking about (which would be things like, who cop should check, who doctor should save etc etc etc). Suspicious. I just wanted to get this out there so I don't forget tomorrow.
Lastly I'd like to apologize for not being around for the first 36 hours, but I am now fully active and will be until the end of the game (people from last game can vouch for my activity levels). Something came up and I had to go out of town where I barely had any time to read the thread and post from my phone.
Perfectly reasonable, not at the start of day 1 though. And yes I jumped on him because I read it as soft-claiming cop, which is as you will most likely agree, retarded to do at day 1. Also even though it may not matter all that much in this game, you played mafia with me last game and should sort of know my playstyle, I wouldn't try to gain town cred by jumping on someone but I'd use other methods.
On October 16 2013 02:03 E00e wrote: And by the way dont be fooled into agreeing with me because you think I am as playerboy put it soft claiming cop. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am the cop but in any case I dont think there is enough evidence to follow me so you should not do it.
Why do you feel the need to point this out? It might be just me but I feel like you are trying too hard to look towny. (It looks like a similair mistake I made in my first game where I was mafia.)
On October 16 2013 05:07 SagaZ wrote: Back, so july still hasn't said shit. At least Vonthin has.
Mitt to me looks like a third party role: a serial killer. What I think is he took the power to be immune to alignment checks, so now he plays extremely over the top mafia so we really don't feel comfortable lynching him, but since his cop check is going to be town he gets the free pass to play bad town, not help with anything and do his business at night. He has no problem pointing fingers at everyone with reasoning because for him he doesn't need one. Everyone is his enemy so he is happy with anyone dying. His last voting for himself move looks to me like a very bad martyr play.
I might be totally mistaken but this is how I see it, he plays in a way that is horrible for town if he is town, and horrible for mafia if he is mafia; I want to think there's more to this.
Vonthin looks scummier by the hour, he jumps on the mitt's ship, gets called out on it then backtracks. To go for a ??? vote on nyxnyxnyx. So I will say it, as you guys know I think nyxnyxnyx looks scummy. But how in hell would you go from a mitt vote to a nyx vote? it just doesn't makes sense, I feel like nyx is a direct downgrade to mitt in term of voting: they both don't say shit of any sort and make weird decision. Only that mitt looks completly crazy and nyx just looks lost. At this point in time I hightly doubt we will get more info out of a nyx lynch than the few that we get from a mitt lynch, so yeah, it is not the fact that he votes for nyx that bothers me, it's the fact that he unvotes mitt to go to nyx, and saying he switched because he wants more information, which is a direct contradiction with his vote.
We still have some time, Vonthin is under heavy fire and I hope he posts a good defense, july and onlywonderboy haven't say jack shit, nyx is still useless.
##Vote: istandwithmitt I explained my serial killer theory, even if I'm all up to kill scum, a killer going rampage in our town is one more kill at night. It is a role against town and lowering the amounts of deaths as soon as day 1 is too much tempting of an offer. And even if he isn't serial killer, he looks at least 70% mafia to me.
If you guys think the serial killer theory is dumb and you'd rather focus votes on people that will give info I will change my vote.
What I'd really like is to see: Vonthin making a defense, Istandwithmitt making a real defense. July answering to Seuss interogations and onlywonderboy's toughts.
I don't necessarily agree, yes mitt's way of playing is extremely ballsy/annoying/not pro-town but playing that way as a SK would be risky and I feel like a non-risky pretending to be pro-town way of playing is the way to go. I might be wrong ofcourse but I think he is more of an annoying troll then a SK.
I truly have the feeling he will flip town, there is just way too many people bandwagoning on him because he is such an easy target. Just leave him be for today, maybe he'll get modkilled or killed by a vigi.
is it possible to vote for a modkill?
onlywonderboy, you better start posting if you don't want this ending for you the same way it did in your first game. You are low on content, again and it really doesn't help your case.
I understand you don't like E00e mentioning cop, but why do you go so hard on it? Also you switched your vote to Vonthin from mitt. Do you believe mitt is not mafia? Or do you keep him in your mafia zone but want to get info from somewhere else today? Is it going to be the same day 2, what about the rest of the game?
Why I go hard on it? Because at that moment I felt like he just gave mafia an easy target (or if he is mafia he made an extremely ballsy move), I really don't want to discuss too much about what mafia could do as it would just work in their favour.
Yes I switched my vote from mitt, didn't you see the incredible amount of votes he received at first? Doesn't that strike you as suspicious? I have the feeling mafia is/was just bandwagoning on him. I believe mitt is useless, can't really get a read on someone that posts one-liners containing nothing but a fuck it all attitude. I'm really just hoping that he will be killed and don't feel like he is worth the amount of votes.
On October 16 2013 05:46 July617 wrote: U.S timezone's people, give me a break, this is day 1 here, day one and we've had four players being called for a lynch and a mighty big bandwagon going on with mitt nyx and vothin, with the exception of vothin right now, yes nyx and mitt do seem like viable choices, but are your reads really that sure that they're mafia? We could be lynching bad town and losing votes we may need later on down the road, I'd like to not have a reason to vote for mitt, but the way he's acting will only worsen with time. I'd like to believe that it will worsen with time but I really don't know, and I have to go with the fact's here and the fact's are that we need the town as strong and as trusted as can be if we're going to want to win, having bad and erratic play isn't helping us .
That's my opinion on the matter.
##Vote istandwithmitt
Nyx dont pressure vote, pressure voting is how mafia infiltrates peoples ranks, just explain yourself more, and be exact and absolute with your points.
I'm pretty much sure you're mafia at this point. I'd be willing to bet my (virtual) life on it.
As bad and erratic as mitt's play has been, he's honestly contributed more than you have, which is saying a lot. Even this post is filled with meaningless statements and contradictions. You cry bandwagon and then hop on one. You warn us against lynching bad town players and then call us to lynch one.
At this point it's all or nothing. I'm willing to wager that Vonthin is mafia on the basis that I think you're mafia and have nothing to gain from saving Vonthin otherwise. If he flips mafia you're next on the chopping block.
Of course if he flips town then I'm probably wrong and will be extremely apologetic provided I'm still alive.
On October 16 2013 06:26 SagaZ wrote: I understand you don't like E00e mentioning cop, but why do you go so hard on it? Also you switched your vote to Vonthin from mitt. Do you believe mitt is not mafia? Or do you keep him in your mafia zone but want to get info from somewhere else today? Is it going to be the same day 2, what about the rest of the game?
I very strongly believe mitt isn't mafia. I think he's just a really bad town player. There's no point in killing him because our worst case scenario is that he just keeps posting short one-liners than everyone can ignore. Best case he either starts actually playing or gets himself modkilled.
I'd appreciate it if you'd swap your vote away from mitt for that reason. I'd prefer that we lynch July617, but at this point Vonthin is an amenable alternative.
On October 16 2013 02:10 istandwithmitt wrote: I came to play but literally all anyone can say is that I'm trolling or worthless. I just want to get this over with at this point.
Playing mafia is 90% communication. I'm not sure what you expected was going to happen when you made terse, confrontational posts your modus operandi.
If you want to play, play. The only thing that's stopping you from communicating with us is you. If you'd just gone into detail about why you jumped on SagaZ so fast and why you swapped to playerboy345, rather than blithely posting "good poast" and "Yeah sorry for posting about who I think is scum." you wouldn't be the social pariah you are now.
I explained both my votes when I made them & only replied tersely to people who couldn't be bothered to respond or think.
TBH Vonthin looks like a really good lynch candidate, I already said what i tough about him in my last post, but all my suspicion comes from his latest posts in the thread. On the other hand July617 still hasn't said anything worthwhile, and is looking to slip under suspicion because of the huge Vonthin vote train. So if the discussion is to get centered around those I'd like July617 to get some more heat so the vote gets to an actual meaningful decision, and not just a bandwagon vote.
I don't really understand why you think these two are linked together tho, the only interaction between those 2 is that they've both been against RNG votes. I'm not saying they're not both mafia, I'm just curious about the interaction mechanism you see between them.
Seus, I have nothing left to give you, Im bashing my head on the desk trying to figure out what I can do to make you see that I am town . I explained my vote on mitt and yet you still seem to believe i'm mafia, even going as far as saying you'd bet your "virtual life" on it . I don't know what to say, I've tried explaining myself but you just continue to call it useless and meaningless, if that's how you see it then so be it . I have nothing else to say to you because It seems like your stuck on this tirade of me being mafia, you asked me for my opinion and i gave it to you .
Yeah I jumped on the bandwagon, because at this point mitt is no use to us as a town player, he continues to write even less then myself and he doesn't seem to care anymore, why are we keeping him around then? You're saying he's contributed more than me ? I'm doing what you asked me to do in your previous post, I gave my opinion and now i'm getting attacked again by you for the one thing you wanted me to do .
Seuss, if you can gather enough steam from town on this, fwiw I'd be willing to switch from Vonthin to July.
however in the event that you can't convince anyone, Sagaz I'd recommend you switch your vote to Vonthin because otherwise you are 100% throwing away your vote.
##Vote: Vonthin I'm in the camp that thinks mitt is bad townie. I agree with everyone criticizing July, but Vonthin is also suspicious and closer to getting lynched. I'd rather put my vote toward him to try and lynch someone other than mitt.
On October 16 2013 07:29 Bereft wrote: Seuss, if you can gather enough steam from town on this, fwiw I'd be willing to switch from Vonthin to July.
however in the event that you can't convince anyone, Sagaz I'd recommend you switch your vote to Vonthin because otherwise you are 100% throwing away your vote.
It's preferable at this point if we vote Vonthin. We can read a lot more into the positions of other people based on how he flips than we can if we suddenly turn around and lynch July. If Vonthin flips Mafia we can read a lot into people's votes. If he flips town we can be pretty certain July isn't mafia, which will cease the abusing relationship between his head and his desk I am at fault for.
I would really prefer voting someone else than Vonthin and July. I don't see them as mafia yet, and can't really understand why you guys think they are mafia so definitively.
I would much rather vote nyx, as his reasonings for his plays aren't anywhere to be found. It's just random posting and blindly following other people. Then the reaction vote on Vonthin? How is that not super strange? Vonthin and July showed their opinion on the Odin gamestart talk, and immediately that puts them under suspicion? Why? It's not like their positions were super scum-like. Their contribution levels are similar to nyx's if not more.
On October 16 2013 07:29 Bereft wrote: Seuss, if you can gather enough steam from town on this, fwiw I'd be willing to switch from Vonthin to July.
however in the event that you can't convince anyone, Sagaz I'd recommend you switch your vote to Vonthin because otherwise you are 100% throwing away your vote.
It's preferable at this point if we vote Vonthin. We can read a lot more into the positions of other people based on how he flips than we can if we suddenly turn around and lynch July. If Vonthin flips Mafia we can read a lot into people's votes. If he flips town we can be pretty certain July isn't mafia, which will cease the abusing relationship between his head and his desk I am at fault for.
So I second your motion regarding SagaZ vote
Why do you think july can't be mafia if vonthin is town again? They haven't done anything pair-worthy besides being in agreement. There isn't really any evidence to support the fact that they are against/together. There never is this early in the game.
I have to leave for an hour or so, i should be back maybe 1 hour before the end of day 1. I'll switch my vote now in case i don't make it back it time.
##unvote ##Vote: Vonthin
Didn't realize day 1 was ending this soon, so I agree we just don't have time to gather enough steam. He looks like a solid lynch, already talked about it in an earlier post.
On October 16 2013 07:29 Bereft wrote: Seuss, if you can gather enough steam from town on this, fwiw I'd be willing to switch from Vonthin to July.
however in the event that you can't convince anyone, Sagaz I'd recommend you switch your vote to Vonthin because otherwise you are 100% throwing away your vote.
It's preferable at this point if we vote Vonthin. We can read a lot more into the positions of other people based on how he flips than we can if we suddenly turn around and lynch July. If Vonthin flips Mafia we can read a lot into people's votes. If he flips town we can be pretty certain July isn't mafia, which will cease the abusing relationship between his head and his desk I am at fault for.
So I second your motion regarding SagaZ vote
Why do you think july can't be mafia if vonthin is town again? They haven't done anything pair-worthy besides being in agreement. There isn't really any evidence to support the fact that they are against/together. There never is this early in the game.
If July is mafia and Vonthin is not, it's to July's advantage to kill Vonthin over mitt. The town is already largely against mitt, so killing him doesn't really accomplish anything for the mafia if there's another good target.
On October 16 2013 07:51 Balla24 wrote: I would really prefer voting someone else than Vonthin and July. I don't see them as mafia yet, and can't really understand why you guys think they are mafia so definitively.
I would much rather vote nyx, as his reasonings for his plays aren't anywhere to be found. It's just random posting and blindly following other people. Then the reaction vote on Vonthin? How is that not super strange? Vonthin and July showed their opinion on the Odin gamestart talk, and immediately that puts them under suspicion? Why? It's not like their positions were super scum-like. Their contribution levels are similar to nyx's if not more.
##vote: nyxnyxnyx
There are enough votes on nyx at the moment that we could possibly swap, given that at least I and SagaZ appear to be present and able to do so.
I am not immovable and we do have a couple of hours. If SagaZ will be around I think you have an opportunity to make a case in defense of Vonthin and/or against nyxnyxnyx. Can you post in more detail?
On October 16 2013 07:29 Bereft wrote: Seuss, if you can gather enough steam from town on this, fwiw I'd be willing to switch from Vonthin to July.
however in the event that you can't convince anyone, Sagaz I'd recommend you switch your vote to Vonthin because otherwise you are 100% throwing away your vote.
It's preferable at this point if we vote Vonthin. We can read a lot more into the positions of other people based on how he flips than we can if we suddenly turn around and lynch July. If Vonthin flips Mafia we can read a lot into people's votes. If he flips town we can be pretty certain July isn't mafia, which will cease the abusing relationship between his head and his desk I am at fault for.
So I second your motion regarding SagaZ vote
Why do you think july can't be mafia if vonthin is town again? They haven't done anything pair-worthy besides being in agreement. There isn't really any evidence to support the fact that they are against/together. There never is this early in the game.
If July is mafia and Vonthin is not, it's to July's advantage to kill Vonthin over mitt. The town is already largely against mitt, so killing him doesn't really accomplish anything for the mafia if there's another good target.
Ah I see what you are saying. Sucks that you had to go this far to explain but I don't think they can really change anything about their play at this point to use this information.
I think, however, that you are assuming that July would take the risk to change his position to lynch Vonthin (which hasn't been his position). If I were July as scum, I'm not sure that's a move I would make, especially since he hasn't made himself open for moves like that with his low post count.
On October 15 2013 11:27 Bereft wrote: ok i'm back.
reading thru the thread, i'd like to caution people against jumping on the mitt vote. i think what we need to decide on is whether we want to (a) vote a useless townie who might be scum or (b) vote an active townie who we have a strong scum read on.
the reason why i'd caution town to vote mitt is because before the game even started, i was doing some joke votes and istandwithmitt goes:
On October 10 2013 14:55 istandwithmitt wrote: Did this start? ##vote balla24 he's voting himself you wyould not do this as town
if we had gotten our pm's at this point, i would have thought this was some miserable scum play. but role pm's hadn't even been sent out at that point! so in conclusion, just keep in mind his in-game posting seems much in line with his pre-game posting.
i think worst case if by the end of d1 we don't see a strong scum case against anyone in particular, mitt is an easy candidate. however given that we have another 24 hours at this point, let's not get pigeon-holed on mitt as there may be stronger candidates out there. i for one would perhaps put Vonthin and GGTemplar in that list, depending on what kind of posts they make in the next 24 hours. not necessarily saying i think they're scum at the moment, but i would like to hear more from them.
the reason i'm singling these 2 out atm is because GGTemplar randomly hones into a pretty mild exchange between Sagaz and mitt and starts postulating about in what scenarios Sagaz is mafia or mitt is mafia, but them both being mafia are mutually exclusive. this seems like either an attempt to appear helpful while not being helpful at all, or a misguided attempt to be helpful, as their exchange seemed pretty minor / un-noteworthy and he's not providing any real analysis but more like game theory.
as for Vonthin, all he does is jump upon the RNG proposal with a massive amount of risk aversion. in this kind of situation, i'm inclined to find mafia to be more risk averse than a townie. as mafia, you'd like to avoid being in the hot seat at any cost possible, whereas as town, my general feeling is that i'm less afraid of being scrutinized because i have nothing to hide. Vonthin also seems to completely miss the fact that Odin isn't actually proposing an RNG, but implicitly proposing RNG as a means to an end -- as a tool to force people to do their best to wriggle out of the hot seat.
I really liked this post, in particular your criticism of me, as about as pro town as it gets. Looking back on my analysis of SagaZ/istandwithmitt, it actually does appear like I'm grasping for something to contribute and so I fully understand your judgment of it as either being mafia or misguided town. I would obviously say it was the latter of these two possibilities, but I'm surprised that you're the first person to actually point this out (playerboy345 sort of prodded me for my reasons a little bit, but didn't fully flesh out his thoughts like you).
Although I dislike your quick followup post throwing July617 into the batch of your highest scum reads with Vonthin and myself (mainly because it seemed like a pretty weak read after your explanation of why you think Vonthin and I are mafia), I am honestly reading you more town than OdinOfPergo because the information, reads, and reasoning behind your reads are much more clearly presented and concise.
July617's post that led to your judgment was somewhat off as well, so I am not going to judge you too harshly regarding that, but you're the closest thing to confirmed town to me without actually being confirmed town at this point.
On October 15 2013 11:29 Bereft wrote: also lawl, adding July to that list, just read his post above. July, please give us some reads within the next 12 hours -- that should be enough time for you to "safely and calmly" get your reads together.
We don't actually need every last poster giving a full list of reads. In fact, it's a fairly decent way for mafia members to look productive without actually contributing anything useful.
The thread is also drawing very quiet, which is good news for the mafia, so I'm going to incite some discussion.
At this point I believe istandwithmitt is just an absolutely terrible player/communicator. He's confrontational, dogmatic, egotistical, and generally a pain in the butt, but he's drawn way, way more negative attention to himself than makes sense for mafia. Bereft is right that we should be focusing on finding other targets right now.
To that end, I believe the two most likely mafia players are SagaZ and July617. I'll present each case in turn.
While he was the first player to post following the start of the game, he's been a sparse participant since. His first post immediately drew suspicion for a number of reasons.
1. Despite its word count it's actually very light on content. 2. The actual suggestions contained within are highly questionable.
Observe:
On October 14 2013 11:26 SagaZ wrote: As a disclaimer early, I think we should all agree on something. We are all newbies here, so if you fuck up or say something dumb, don't play the "oh sorry, I am new I didn't know". [/color]
[color=green]Seuss is our confirmed town, we should try to organize around him. For a day 1 lynch, I think lynching some1 innactive is the best way to go.[/color] Having innactive players around just give mafia the opportunity to sit back and do nothing while town runs around screaming at each other. So give information about yourself if you can, so that others will be able to read you easy.
My stance this early is easy: I will vote for people that post nothing worthy or nothing at all, unless some1 slips. I am also more likely to vote for people that say suspicious stuff and then say "sorry I didn't know I am new"
SagaZ spends both the first and last paragraphs primarily rambling about how people shouldn't play the newbie card. If all he really wanted to do was encourage newbies to post, as he later claimed, he could easily have done so with a far more positive tone. He doesn't sound like he's encouraging newbies as much as discouraging them.
While he does make two seemingly reasonable suggestions, they are obvious and ultimately counter-productive. As the sole confirmed townie in the game, my lifespan is likely to be short. Rallying around me exclusively would simply set the town up for trouble upon my inevitable death. Similarly, lynching players who'll simply be modkilled does nothing for the town either.
So SagaZ' first post discouraged activity and made no useful suggestions. That's enough to arouse suspicion, but not to conclude he is mafia.
That brings us to his second post:
On October 14 2013 20:11 SagaZ wrote: Of course I meant lurker lynch, afkers will get modkilled after all. If one guy is not saying anything in the thread or very little, but still turn out to vote for people without giving reasoning... that would be very scum telling to me. I guess it is fairly obvious to everyone, but pointing it out will make them talk whether they want it or not, and that gives information. I took the opportunity of the first post to basically say "game started, don't hide behind your inexperience and post".
For town to win we need 2 thing: - Get everyone active - Organize around our confirmed towny Seuss
@nyxnyxnyx: Care to explain why you trust Odin? Him being so hyper posty makes me nervous but he actually present points for us to discuss on, which creates discussion and is therefore good for town. It is weird to me at least that you come in, decide to side with odin even thought we have a confirmed townie.
In this post he claims he meant "lurker" when he said "inactive". However, in his first post he clearly stated that his potential vote targets included those who posted "nothing at all". SagaZ is backpedaling here, and making it seem reasonable by repeating the reasoning that undermined his previous position. He also very carefully drops his excuse for the weird newbie-discouraging rambling at the end of an unrelated paragraph, burying it.
"Getting everyone active" is an important step for towns looking to win, but SagaZ doesn't actually have any suggestions on how to do that, and doesn't participate enough himself. He again says everyone should organize around me, also without suggesting how or acknowledging the obvious flaw in the strategy (e.g. I'm a dead man walking).
Finally, he ends the post promoting discord. While nyxnyxnyx' decision to trust Odin could have used some additional vetting, at that point Odin was at the nexus of a fairly chaotic argument, and rallying behind his "let's randomly pick someone and put them in the hotseat to get information flowing" idea would have killed a lot of the useless chatter while promoting helpful discussion. Questioning nyxnyxnyx at this point only served to perpetuate the pointless debate, and promote distrust.
SagaZ third post was entirely inconsequential, and above analysis. His fourth post at least pretended to have substance:
On October 15 2013 05:02 SagaZ wrote: First impressions: going into this I was feeling most uncomfortable with nyxnyxnyx, blindly following some1 sounds like a pretty bad idea for a town, and especially stating it in the thread sounds more to me like he was trying to get onto OdinOfPergo's good side. And the I read istandwithmitt's post and I'm like wtf. He voted for me at the beginning and I thought it was alright, aggressive play-style pointing fingers early to get some heat and get the discussion going, but then instead of making use of it he just go silent. And now this switcharoo vote with no explanation and abrasive behavior?
There are a lot of words in this post, but it essentially says nothing. The entire latter half is a rehash of what everyone else had already said about istandwithmitt. The former half mostly repeats his previous misgivings about nyxnyxnyx' decision, adding an extra touch of distrust of both nyx and Odin. No progress towards anything happens over the course of these paragraphs.
Finally, there's SagaZ latest post:
On October 15 2013 05:20 SagaZ wrote: I'd like to hear what playerboy345 has to say to Istandwithmitt's accusations; just complete the weird triangle between them 2 and E00e.
At this point debating with istandwithmitt was utterly pointless, whoever was doing it. I had said as much earlier. Promoting a useless discussion is never helpful to the town.
It is for these reasons that I believe SagaZ has a very high probability of being mafia, and is worthy of a lynching.
The only useful contribution he's made was his response to Odin's confusing RNG plan. At the time Odin's confusing manner of communicating made it seem like the plan was to randomly select someone, lynch them, and call it a day. That ultimately wasn't what Odin was aiming for, but at the time it seemed that way and if July hadn't responded as he did someone else would have.
Which brings us to his other 5 posts. They all say essentially the same thing, "I don't want to lynch anyone yet, let's wait and talk more." If everyone was jumping to conclusions in the first four hours istandwithmitt style that might have been fine, but with practically half our time spent he's still waiting for a sign from God (or is it the Godfather?).
The only player who has contributed less is Balla24, who hasn't posted at all.
Keeping his head this low, and trying to keep people deferring the lynching decision as long as possible, makes it a high probability that July617 is mafia.
Until such time as either or both of these individuals has a convincing defense established, it's my preference that we lynch one of them over istandwithmitt, much as it pains me.
While I respect and relate to your judgment of istandwithmitt, I think if there's ever a day where we can afford to lynch the weakest town instead of a mafia, it's day 1. If he's mafia at this point, then all is well. If he's town, then I think it's better we get rid of him now rather than let him end up in the final 3 and remain a target of suspicion - in addition to the possibility that his seemingly arbitrary reads could end up being the final deciding vote on who is mafia or not.
On October 15 2013 21:12 playerboy345 wrote: Okay so you think he is pro-town because a first post and because he agrees on something with you? I'm sorry, I don't agree with your read here.
So instead of analysing this post word for word (I barely slept today and I don't want to delay this post too much as I want to put some content out there) I'll just ask you why you are so sure that either SagaZ OR istwithandmitt are scum (and why they can't be scum mates)
Short answer, I'm not anymore. It was a poor attempt to contribute some analysis on my part.
I just got home and I 100% agree with the Istand point.
He votes for himself. He just doesn't even want to play this game.
##unvote
I will re-read this thread from 14. Since I only really had a brief moment to scim it since I've been home. Alls I can point to at this point from my scim through is: I still don't like July. And sorry Seuss; I really don't like Nyx's post still. Although I think you mentioned this. I will pull quotes and piece together a case for my lynch vote.
On October 16 2013 01:06 Seuss wrote: Also, I really highly doubt E00e was role claiming. If you check his post history he was asking about the cop before the game even started. There's a chance he's the cop, but he couldn't have known he was going to be the cop when he first asked questions about how the cop worked.
Okay, so there is a chance he is not a cop, but it still annoys the crap out of me, why would you EVER discuss anything related to cops on the beginning of day 1? It just doesn't make sense to me, if you need information about such stuff you should ask your coach.
On October 16 2013 01:38 Balla24 wrote: One thing I would like to mention, though, that is somewhat irrelevant at the moment but might be relevant tomorrow: the E00 cop thing. In my opinion, e00's post was a perfectly reasonable topic (when should cop come out?) to talk about, albeit at a bad time since there were already several moving pieces in the game at that point. What is interesting however, is how playerboy jumps on it as if it was the worst possible thing a townie could do. It's like he didn't even think about what e00 was actually saying and wanted to gain town cred by stopping him from talking about something that he shouldn't be talking about (which would be things like, who cop should check, who doctor should save etc etc etc). Suspicious. I just wanted to get this out there so I don't forget tomorrow.
Lastly I'd like to apologize for not being around for the first 36 hours, but I am now fully active and will be until the end of the game (people from last game can vouch for my activity levels). Something came up and I had to go out of town where I barely had any time to read the thread and post from my phone.
Perfectly reasonable, not at the start of day 1 though. And yes I jumped on him because I read it as soft-claiming cop, which is as you will most likely agree, retarded to do at day 1. Also even though it may not matter all that much in this game, you played mafia with me last game and should sort of know my playstyle, I wouldn't try to gain town cred by jumping on someone but I'd use other methods.
On October 16 2013 02:03 E00e wrote: And by the way dont be fooled into agreeing with me because you think I am as playerboy put it soft claiming cop. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am the cop but in any case I dont think there is enough evidence to follow me so you should not do it.
Why do you feel the need to point this out? It might be just me but I feel like you are trying too hard to look towny. (It looks like a similair mistake I made in my first game where I was mafia.)
On October 16 2013 05:07 SagaZ wrote: Back, so july still hasn't said shit. At least Vonthin has.
Mitt to me looks like a third party role: a serial killer. What I think is he took the power to be immune to alignment checks, so now he plays extremely over the top mafia so we really don't feel comfortable lynching him, but since his cop check is going to be town he gets the free pass to play bad town, not help with anything and do his business at night. He has no problem pointing fingers at everyone with reasoning because for him he doesn't need one. Everyone is his enemy so he is happy with anyone dying. His last voting for himself move looks to me like a very bad martyr play.
I might be totally mistaken but this is how I see it, he plays in a way that is horrible for town if he is town, and horrible for mafia if he is mafia; I want to think there's more to this.
Vonthin looks scummier by the hour, he jumps on the mitt's ship, gets called out on it then backtracks. To go for a ??? vote on nyxnyxnyx. So I will say it, as you guys know I think nyxnyxnyx looks scummy. But how in hell would you go from a mitt vote to a nyx vote? it just doesn't makes sense, I feel like nyx is a direct downgrade to mitt in term of voting: they both don't say shit of any sort and make weird decision. Only that mitt looks completly crazy and nyx just looks lost. At this point in time I hightly doubt we will get more info out of a nyx lynch than the few that we get from a mitt lynch, so yeah, it is not the fact that he votes for nyx that bothers me, it's the fact that he unvotes mitt to go to nyx, and saying he switched because he wants more information, which is a direct contradiction with his vote.
We still have some time, Vonthin is under heavy fire and I hope he posts a good defense, july and onlywonderboy haven't say jack shit, nyx is still useless.
##Vote: istandwithmitt I explained my serial killer theory, even if I'm all up to kill scum, a killer going rampage in our town is one more kill at night. It is a role against town and lowering the amounts of deaths as soon as day 1 is too much tempting of an offer. And even if he isn't serial killer, he looks at least 70% mafia to me.
If you guys think the serial killer theory is dumb and you'd rather focus votes on people that will give info I will change my vote.
What I'd really like is to see: Vonthin making a defense, Istandwithmitt making a real defense. July answering to Seuss interogations and onlywonderboy's toughts.
I don't necessarily agree, yes mitt's way of playing is extremely ballsy/annoying/not pro-town but playing that way as a SK would be risky and I feel like a non-risky pretending to be pro-town way of playing is the way to go. I might be wrong ofcourse but I think he is more of an annoying troll then a SK.
I truly have the feeling he will flip town, there is just way too many people bandwagoning on him because he is such an easy target. Just leave him be for today, maybe he'll get modkilled or killed by a vigi.
is it possible to vote for a modkill?
onlywonderboy, you better start posting if you don't want this ending for you the same way it did in your first game. You are low on content, again and it really doesn't help your case.
-I honestly think he was just making a newb mistake and that he should have asked a coach or mod. You completely overreacted to nothing.
-I don't see how you think he was soft-claiming cop at all. You soft-claim cop by going really hard on your mafia check or defending your town check really hard. Being that there was no Night0, cop would have no checks at this point and so there would be no reason to soft claim Day1.
-I think it's pretty obvious why he's pointing it out here.
So why don't you? You complain about a lack of details. Yet you don't ask any questions.
On October 15 2013 07:39 July617 wrote: Well here I am again, sorry I had a long sleep today, Odin I think your reads are good reads are strong, I can see why you pegged me as possible scum, I was just trying to talk and move things along but with that said yeah I should of added more onto my post's and contributed/clarified/spoke-up with ideas of my own.
My own personal reads ?
I don't really have confidence in anyone as of yet, I mean I know a good chunk of us are town but none of the post's here give much info (Besides mitt and playerboy going at each other . which is weird ) like i said again in a previous post we should be talking more but like E00e said we'll have a hard time finding mafia without actual evidence to back it up . So i've really got nothing so far. I'm just trying to read everyone safely and calmly.
On October 15 2013 18:11 July617 wrote: @seuss I'll give you that , my past five posts over and over again have been the pretty much the same thing, only because I really don't have an idea of who I should focus my attention to. Yes istandwithmitt is an easy lynch because of how he's acting but I believe there are better lynches out there. As to who ? I'm not so sure, I wish i could say SagaZ but he could just be playing bad town . And Whether it is bad town play or he's secretly mafia, I can't lean to either side without an explanation from him .
So you actually do think that wasting a vote on Istand is a worthless vote. You're pretty much admitting to just taking the easy vote? The Nyx statement at the end was just a very brief rehashing mixed with a "Oh look, I'm helping" Nyx's one liners are the same use of Instands at this point to me. The only thing he hasn't done is post anything but them.
On October 16 2013 05:46 July617 wrote: U.S timezone's people, give me a break, this is day 1 here, day one and we've had four players being called for a lynch and a mighty big bandwagon going on with mitt nyx and vothin, with the exception of vothin right now, yes nyx and mitt do seem like viable choices, but are your reads really that sure that they're mafia? We could be lynching bad town and losing votes we may need later on down the road, I'd like to not have a reason to vote for mitt, but the way he's acting will only worsen with time. I'd like to believe that it will worsen with time but I really don't know, and I have to go with the fact's here and the fact's are that we need the town as strong and as trusted as can be if we're going to want to win, having bad and erratic play isn't helping us .
That's my opinion on the matter.
##Vote istandwithmitt
Nyx dont pressure vote, pressure voting is how mafia infiltrates peoples ranks, just explain yourself more, and be exact and absolute with your points.
Everything short of reading what you seriously already posted? Did you read the two and a half pages before it? "Oh his post are worse than mine" If this is true why are you still around? Why is Nyx getting the nice crumble of a supposed tip? Why do you choose mitt over Vontin? Are you trying to pull the weight off your scum buddy? I don't like this. Vonthin is a strong lynch for the town right now. You could of gone from one no poster to another. I only remember a few post that got brought up.
##vote July617
On October 16 2013 07:14 July617 wrote: Seus, I have nothing left to give you, Im bashing my head on the desk trying to figure out what I can do to make you see that I am town . I explained my vote on mitt and yet you still seem to believe i'm mafia, even going as far as saying you'd bet your "virtual life" on it . I don't know what to say, I've tried explaining myself but you just continue to call it useless and meaningless, if that's how you see it then so be it . I have nothing else to say to you because It seems like your stuck on this tirade of me being mafia, you asked me for my opinion and i gave it to you .
Yeah I jumped on the bandwagon, because at this point mitt is no use to us as a town player, he continues to write even less then myself and he doesn't seem to care anymore, why are we keeping him around then? You're saying he's contributed more than me ? I'm doing what you asked me to do in your previous post, I gave my opinion and now i'm getting attacked again by you for the one thing you wanted me to do .
Keep vote on Vonthin, we're voting againt each other. If he flips mafia you can work with that info, if he's town I'll have to make a new case for myself
On October 15 2013 05:01 OdinOfPergo wrote: Istand, even to this point, if anyone goes through your filter, you haven't posted anything useful to support yourself.
@Suess,
I'm curious on why you think Nyx is town though. His 5? post consist of nothing but pretty much the same statement. I'm less than sold on the idea.
At the time nyxnyxnyx wanted to blindly follow you the discussion that was going on was chaotic, without purpose, and generally a mass of confusion and bad assumptions on all sides. Killing the conversation so that we could move on to actually hunting scum needed to happen.
It is slightly suspect. It's possible both you and he are actually mafia, and he's just chiming in to increase confidence in your authenticity. However, so long as I think you're a townie and contributing positively to the game, nyxnyxnyx is also likely a townie because as a mafia he wouldn't gain anything by killing a disruptive conversation or following the lead of a proactive townie.
On October 15 2013 12:52 nyxnyxnyx wrote: ##Vote: istandwithmitt
On October 16 2013 00:20 nyxnyxnyx wrote: I don't actually think istandwithmitt is mafia, although he is a bad poster. Unfortunately I'll miss out on last few hours because Asian time zone OP. Good luck guys!
I've missed a few pretty important discuss here. Why would you still blindly follow me at this point? I haven't even had the chance to share my opinion at this point. Which Bereft pointed out.
On October 16 2013 00:43 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Because Odin probably knows how to play this game better than I do and he's voting for him right now.
Ontop of that you bandwagon onto Vonthin after Suess posted a read that got some heat going. Do I like that, no. If I'm not going to lynch Istand for it though what makes you different? You aren't even posting some crumby defense that I can work at.
I should note that while Vonthin doesn't look good in the filter I don't have the time to put together a post right now. Lacking that, I figure in the 20 minutes until the end of day 1 he'll be dead anyway. Unless half of the people on him change their votes last minute. I doubt this. Frankly I think he's given way more reason for the lynch over Nyx or Istand. Neither of them post anything. Meanwhile we have July and Vonthin who just have a few post spread out that all contain shotty arguments that I think are just trying to shift blame away from themselves. July I really don't understand because he's "defending" himself when there isn't even heat there. I don't understand this at all. Vonthin does. But like I said, He's dead, will flip scum, and then I get to grill you about it.
No Bereft, I don't want to swing the vote. I don't think Vonthin's argument is worth it's weight in salt. But I realize he's dead and I want to pull attention to this for when he flips red.
Ok well, this is not the result I was hoping for from this flip. This is going to be a problem. When we have town defending themselves like this.
Ok so, Bereft and Suess make a point about Istand being either an obvious troll, or an extremely bad townie. Vonthin follows this with a Istand vote half a page later. That got you some attention. Which could probably have been negated with a better explaination than this: + Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2013 23:20 Vonthin wrote:
I did read your post and Suess' posts
Here is reasons why I voted for him
1. He is super quick to jump the gun to lynch someone, votes after seeing SagaZ's very first post saying we should lynch inactive
2. His very next post he switches and votes for playerboy by saying he posts nothing worthwhile(he has some point here, a good portion of his posts don't say much besides i agree with x but a lot of those posts came after he voted against him)
3. Makes shit posts saying things like "Good poast" after someone votes against him, then just proceeds to argue poorly trying to justify his voting and being 2 confrontational plus no real analysis.
He seems the scummiest to me, there are some people that seem scummy but nothing as glaring as him. I am still contemplating switching my vote to Nyx but want to see another post or two from him. Reasons for thinking he is scum so far: Hasn't said almost anything besides that he is gonna blindly follow Odin when he isn't a confirmed town and that odin has a plan because we don't have one the townies auto lose! Then he just posts once more saying he is voting for Mitt and nothing else
I feel like we could of avioded this mislynch if Vonthin didn't defend his position with 3 short winded points. One of which was just flat out wrong. Istand didn't make any arguments. The most he said was one liners basically translating to; "I will vote for whoever I deemed scum and don't really care to explain how I have come to this conclusion."
The last paragraph could have been a good start at just this. Nyx isn't contributing anything more than this. He's not even contributing the statement about not caring to explain himself. Simply a strait refusal to do so thus far.
And then Suess follows suit with this as a scum read with other's and this bandwagon starts to gain weight. Obviously people don't see you're explaination as a valid excuse. So what are you going to do about it? You change you're vote to Nyx shortly after this. You come back 2 and a half hours later with a single paragraph that gave us this:
In lamest terms: "I am going to change my vote to Nyx for the same reason I had it on Istand" followed by "It was an ez vote" "Now I'm off to work! Bye and I hope I don't die!"
Did you read his past couple of posts? Looks like Mittgave up and will most likely be mod killed, even if he isn't gonna be mod killed there isn't a point in killing him today since we pretty much know everything about him and nyx started to look really scummy to me so I switched to him like I said I would if I saw someone who looked scummier than mitt, nyx looks incapable of forming an opinion for himself and just follows everyone else which doesn't really seem like a thing a townie would do.
On October 16 2013 04:19 Vonthin wrote: Also one of the reasons(not that good of a reason tho imo) I initially voted for Mitt at the time was that I wasn't sure I would have time to be on and cast a vote before the deadline and he seemed like an alright choice at the time since everyone else voted and no one looked scummy enough to warrant a vote yet.
Anyways I have to go to work now and won't be back till late tonight unless I have time to check on my phone, hopefully I'm not hanged but it looks like I am just for disagreeing with a stupid rng plan and then hoping on an obvious bandwagon that people were starting to get off :/
I'm taking this as a wake up call for town. We have July,Nyx,Istand, and now previously Vonthin posting for the most part nothing or very weak arguments. We need to talk a lot more. I'm not going to accept blind faith on things from this point on. We all knew the commitment in joining this. If you can't spend an hour or so reading and coming up with a reason for your viewpoints, I'm going to assume it's because your scum.
On that note, I would really appreciate to hear from July, Nyx, and Istand if he has any intention to continue playing.
So July can stop smacking his head against his desk because Vonthin's town flip pretty much exonerates him. If he'd been mafia he'd have had every reason to vote for Vonthin over istandwithmitt. Vonthin's untimely demise was extremely unfortunate, but I think we can be fairly certain of July's innocence.
Apologies for any damage done to your head or your desk.
If nothing else yesterday serves as a warning. We really can't afford to waste time arguing about RNG and getting bogged down in one person's tomfoolery. If we'd had more time to discuss the Vonthin lynch I'm fairly certain we'd have backed off and found a different target.
On that subject, we definitely need to discuss nyxnyxnyx. He needs to justify himself better and we need to consider him carefully as a potential lynching target.
Damn, I really tough Vonthin would flip red, and then we would have a pretty easy game with a july lynch, or even having a vigi shoot him or something...
but let's keep positive, and try to read the info we get from that.
Votes for end of day 1: Vonthin (6): Bereft, playerboy345, Seuss, nyxnyxnyx, onlywonderboy, SagaZ
I guess there is some mafia in this vote participant, so the people here should be under some scrutiny. Aside from Seuss from this group, my strongest town read is Bereft. Even though Vonthin was a miss lynch, his reasoning looked strong and prevented the mitt super band wagon.
My strongest scum reads: nyx and onlywonderboy. I have said it and will repeat it, they give us absolutely nothing to work with and jump on the easy lynch train.
Still looks mafia but less than the 2 above: playerboy345, less than the others for the sole reason that he gave a bit more to work with. Again, what I really really hate about his posts is how hard he goes on E00e for what E00e said (which looked like an honest newby mistake to me). He says talking about blues is a big nono this early in the game (which is perfectly resonable) but then he proceed so damn hard on it that at this point he's been the one talking about it more than the rest. I also don't like the timing of his post, after Seuss brough some order to the town discussion by asking to focus on me and july, player comes in and repeat his grief on E00e. Looks a bit like he was trying to sidetrack the discussion to me. He still reads less scummy than the 2 above to me, honestly what I say about the timing might be absolutly nothing and just how his timezone works. My post looks dedicated to him because I think I already made my view on wonderboy and nyx in my earlier post but not really on him.
I think there is a good chance to be like 1 or 2 scums in the people that voted Vorthin. So from my perspective, I'd really like to hear nyxnyxnyx, onlywonderboy and player345. Because right now I'd feel comfortable going for either of those. Bereft's toughs would be good too, especially cause so far he has been helping the town I think.
And to end on a side note, how does everyone stands on mitt now? Cause I am now very fking confused...
Whatever we do we should exhaust every tangent unless it's absolutely clear. I do think mitt is town and I'm hoping he looks at this as a stroke of luck for himself. Mitt give more substance to your posts, if we want town to win we're going to need everyone to be active and posting. And posting one liners doesn't help your case, give us your reads so you don't end up on the chopping block again, bad town play shouldn't be encouraged and if you really don't want to contribute just say so, so we can put your case to rest and move on to an actual mafia target.
First off, in reply to Sagaz. The only person I trust out of the Vonthin voters is you (SagaZ), and obviously Seuss. Reason being I played with Bereft last game and in this game he just seems a little different. He hasn't done enough to convince me he is town at this point (which in reality nobody should). His posts are especially weak this game, and I expect that to change during night phase as for some reason last game he stepped it up. I also have a town read on E00, and that's probably my best town read. This guy has been solid in his reasoning and I like his plays in reaction to playerboy's call out. Very nice, IMO.
I do want to revisit the Playerboy -> E00 situation. Playerboy, how do you read that as a soft-claim? He was genuinely trying to start a discussion on when cop should come out because that's an easy way for scum to slip and for scum to give a town-like opinion on something (which is better than not saying anything at all). It's a common way to start some conversation on day1. The fact that you were so angry at the fact that he did that really makes me think you're trying to gain town cred for flipping out over some small mistake. Also I'd like to hear about why you think E00 saying "i'm not going to confirm or deny i'm cop" is bad as well. If he's a good townie he has to debunk your "soft-claiming talk" whether he is cop or he is not.
As far as nyx. ATM he is my highest scum read and I will push for him today as long as nothing changes during this nightphase/nightactions. Nyx, why did you think Vonthin was mafia? What specifically did you not like about his small defense (things he didn't mention etc etc)? Why was switching his vote to you the last nail in the coffin for you for him being scum?
Mitt: Please do not use your vote as a way to sway people. It should be used as a vote and only that. On top of that, question people instead of just attacking them straight up. Get more information out of them and THEN decide. If you are just voting at the slightest sign of scum then you are not helping others see your side. More prodding.
Oh i'd also like to share my experiences with Bereft and playerboy last game:
Bereft was playing similar to this game as town, except I think he played a bit more aggressive. It's always spread out posts like this with some questioning. He shares his reads when he feels its relevant and there are no targets but not otherwise. During the nightphase especially after a mis-lynch he pushed questions on people a LOT to try to get them to explain their plays. He didn't really trust anyone and as a result was candidate for first night kill. For me he is a very good townie, scary scum player based on his town play.
Playerboy is playing exactly as he was now. His posts are all over the place and he acts as if people make huge mistakes in their posts a lot. Expect him to get somewhat mad when people don't do what he's expecting them to do. He will rarely mention or talk to his mafia teammates and if he does he speaks of them as a neutral town read (not the highest of his town reads). After day 1 all his posts were manipulation by me and he seems very weak at forming fake opinions on subjects as scum. If he is scum, we will be able to break him if we continue to prod him for things. He will also not post if it is hard for him to make an opinion, he went fairly inactive towards the end of the game last game when it was important for all town to be posting. Keep an eye out for that. I don't think he is a good lynch target today, but it is important we keep the pressure up on him, need him to prove he is town.
I'd invite you guys to share your opinions on each other and myself as well. Since we are the only ones with previous game information (i think). If anybody else has played with each other previously please share as well.
@Balla - that was purely a timing/availability issue. If I'm home and have time to sit down and write something I will, regardless of day/night phase. might not be the best strategy, but what can you do, time constraints yo. I'm out tonight so not sure if I'll make it home before the night post - but if I do I'll write something.
that being said, what exactly "seems a little different" about my posting this time around? can you expand please? why such a strong read on Sagaz?
my general gut feeling is that only 1 out of the 6 votes on Vonthin is mafia. I would lean towards playerboy i from this subset. no read on OWB yet - as per last game he has been super quiet. OWB please don't go down that same path again... all just because you played the same way as town doesn't mean you'll get a free pass this time around.
on a phone at work right now... I'll post more thoroughly tonight ><
1. i wanted to go with whatever odin was going for. i have explained why in previous post. that was istandwithmitt 2. i put up the vote since i was gona sleep in a bit (vote would close at ~10am next morning, might not wake up before then) 3. people complained about my blind voting because i expressed that i personally did not think istandwithmitt was mafia (and i still think so). vonthin changed his vote to me on that feeling, and i thought well fuck you im voting you bitch 4. that is all
On October 16 2013 23:03 Bereft wrote: @Balla - that was purely a timing/availability issue. If I'm home and have time to sit down and write something I will, regardless of day/night phase. might not be the best strategy, but what can you do, time constraints yo. I'm out tonight so not sure if I'll make it home before the night post - but if I do I'll write something.
that being said, what exactly "seems a little different" about my posting this time around? can you expand please? why such a strong read on Sagaz?
my general gut feeling is that only 1 out of the 6 votes on Vonthin is mafia. I would lean towards playerboy i from this subset. no read on OWB yet - as per last game he has been super quiet. OWB please don't go down that same path again... all just because you played the same way as town doesn't mean you'll get a free pass this time around.
on a phone at work right now... I'll post more thoroughly tonight ><
Sorry, just went over your filter from last game again, just a feeling i had from memory but I'm completely wrong. You have literally done exactly the same thing as last game haha. That makes me more comfortable with you. But again, the way you play makes me scared of you as a scum player, you could definitely screw us hard. Only thing that is different so far is the post-day1 posts from you but I chalk that up to the situation being completely different, especially since you are the one who mislynched rather than others.
Anyways, my read on SagaZ is from his defense under pressure from Seuss. I liked it, he addresses most points that Seuss makes and tries to rectify the fact that he hasn't been posting content. Following the lynch, he follows up on his previous reads and tries to come up with a solid d2 target out of the guilty voters on d1. Seems like a good follow-up as a townie, as scum I would expect him to just let others post and try to figure out the next target, as thats how his play was indicating early on d1 and late d1, he was letting others figure out who to kill while he was somewhat under suspicion. I think he's playing solid. Again, could change but I don't have anything to prod him about atm.
On October 16 2013 23:06 nyxnyxnyx wrote: 1. i wanted to go with whatever odin was going for. i have explained why in previous post. that was istandwithmitt 2. i put up the vote since i was gona sleep in a bit (vote would close at ~10am next morning, might not wake up before then) 3. people complained about my blind voting because i expressed that i personally did not think istandwithmitt was mafia (and i still think so). vonthin changed his vote to me on that feeling, and i thought well fuck you im voting you bitch 4. that is all
Please reply to these:
From me:
Nyx, why did you think Vonthin was mafia? What specifically did you not like about his small defense (things he didn't mention etc etc)? Why was switching his vote to you the last nail in the coffin for you for him being scum?
Your post now literally just reiterates what we already know. Have some reasoning. You have none right now besides bullshit. You're almost acting like istandwithmitt right now and that puts us in a terrible position.
On top of that, who are your scum reads now that Vonthin is dead? I'd like you to answer this before others share their reads.
On October 16 2013 08:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote: While I respect and relate to your judgment of istandwithmitt, I think if there's ever a day where we can afford to lynch the weakest town instead of a mafia, it's day 1. If he's mafia at this point, then all is well. If he's town, then I think it's better we get rid of him now rather than let him end up in the final 3 and remain a target of suspicion - in addition to the possibility that his seemingly arbitrary reads could end up being the final deciding vote on who is mafia or not.
Hey this is a really scummy post. Can you guys tell me why?
Could you answer any of the questions on my post found on the bottom of page 18? The only thing your post is giving me is that you believe Mitt is just bad townie (Which was a point that was beaten on for several pages.) And then rehashing what everyone else has already said to do. Could you follow your own advice here and give us your reads?
@Nyx,
1) You still don't answer any of the questions brought up for you. You wanted to bandwagon behind my vote early because you weren't sure. People didn't like this defense but it snuck by under the radar for the most part due to Suess suggestion behind what your motives might of been. After I was missing from this thread for the better part of the second half of D1, this argument doesn't hold water with me anymore. I haven't even been online to give an opinion on the new situation. Why still blindly follow my choice despite all the new information in the thread?
2) But you said:
On October 16 2013 00:20 nyxnyxnyx wrote: I don't actually think istandwithmitt is mafia, although he is a bad poster. Unfortunately I'll miss out on last few hours because Asian time zone OP. Good luck guys!
So why waste the vote? You are about to go to sleep so why don't you put your vote on your strongest scum read before doing so? Why leave it on him at this point? Of course this is assuming you've made any reads at all. Because if you have, you sure haven't shared them with the rest of us.
3) Why didn't you question Vonthin on why he thought you were scum? Right now I think you're scummy. Does that mean your next post is going to consist of a vote for me with no explanation to it? You're under a lot of suspicious because you don't really tell us anything about your reasoning.
God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
On October 16 2013 23:03 Bereft wrote: @Balla - that was purely a timing/availability issue. If I'm home and have time to sit down and write something I will, regardless of day/night phase. might not be the best strategy, but what can you do, time constraints yo. I'm out tonight so not sure if I'll make it home before the night post - but if I do I'll write something.
that being said, what exactly "seems a little different" about my posting this time around? can you expand please? why such a strong read on Sagaz?
my general gut feeling is that only 1 out of the 6 votes on Vonthin is mafia. I would lean towards playerboy i from this subset. no read on OWB yet - as per last game he has been super quiet. OWB please don't go down that same path again... all just because you played the same way as town doesn't mean you'll get a free pass this time around.
on a phone at work right now... I'll post more thoroughly tonight ><
I think I'm quieter this game than last one but that's due to irl responsibilities. Last time I just dug myself a grave by getting super defensive and doing a poor job of explaining myself. As for my vote I was clear upfront I was putting a lot of weight into Suess' analysis since I know he's town and a really smart guy.
I agree nyx has a lot of explaining to do. I realize he wanted to follow Odin, but the contradiction of not thinking mitt is mafia but still voting him anyway feels very scummy.
Honestly the only person I have a strong read on right now is Odin (town). The initial bandwagon on mitt and changing votes from there was a bit of a clusterfuck so getting a read on these events hasn't been easy.
On October 16 2013 23:03 Bereft wrote: @Balla - that was purely a timing/availability issue. If I'm home and have time to sit down and write something I will, regardless of day/night phase. might not be the best strategy, but what can you do, time constraints yo. I'm out tonight so not sure if I'll make it home before the night post - but if I do I'll write something.
that being said, what exactly "seems a little different" about my posting this time around? can you expand please? why such a strong read on Sagaz?
my general gut feeling is that only 1 out of the 6 votes on Vonthin is mafia. I would lean towards playerboy i from this subset. no read on OWB yet - as per last game he has been super quiet. OWB please don't go down that same path again... all just because you played the same way as town doesn't mean you'll get a free pass this time around.
on a phone at work right now... I'll post more thoroughly tonight ><
I think I'm quieter this game than last one but that's due to irl responsibilities. Last time I just dug myself a grave by getting super defensive and doing a poor job of explaining myself. As for my vote I was clear upfront I was putting a lot of weight into Suess' analysis since I know he's town and a really smart guy.
I agree nyx has a lot of explaining to do. I realize he wanted to follow Odin, but the contradiction of not thinking mitt is mafia but still voting him anyway feels very scummy.
Honestly the only person I have a strong read on right now is Odin (town). The initial bandwagon on mitt and changing votes from there was a bit of a clusterfuck so getting a read on these events hasn't been easy.
Apparently I'm not smart enough, given the day's outcome.
Why don't you think July is town? It's not impossible for him to be mafia, but it seems highly unlikely given that he had no reason to vote istandwithmitt over Vonthin.
On October 16 2013 23:03 Bereft wrote: @Balla - that was purely a timing/availability issue. If I'm home and have time to sit down and write something I will, regardless of day/night phase. might not be the best strategy, but what can you do, time constraints yo. I'm out tonight so not sure if I'll make it home before the night post - but if I do I'll write something.
that being said, what exactly "seems a little different" about my posting this time around? can you expand please? why such a strong read on Sagaz?
my general gut feeling is that only 1 out of the 6 votes on Vonthin is mafia. I would lean towards playerboy i from this subset. no read on OWB yet - as per last game he has been super quiet. OWB please don't go down that same path again... all just because you played the same way as town doesn't mean you'll get a free pass this time around.
on a phone at work right now... I'll post more thoroughly tonight ><
I think I'm quieter this game than last one but that's due to irl responsibilities. Last time I just dug myself a grave by getting super defensive and doing a poor job of explaining myself. As for my vote I was clear upfront I was putting a lot of weight into Suess' analysis since I know he's town and a really smart guy.
I agree nyx has a lot of explaining to do. I realize he wanted to follow Odin, but the contradiction of not thinking mitt is mafia but still voting him anyway feels very scummy.
Honestly the only person I have a strong read on right now is Odin (town). The initial bandwagon on mitt and changing votes from there was a bit of a clusterfuck so getting a read on these events hasn't been easy.
Apparently I'm not smart enough, given the day's outcome.
Why don't you think July is town? It's not impossible for him to be mafia, but it seems highly unlikely given that he had no reason to vote istandwithmitt over Vonthin.
It could easily be him being careful with his vote so that nobody would be suspicious of it. Again though, I don't think July is mafia, but you shouldn't clear your suspicion of him just because he didn't switch his vote. Especially no reason to switch since it was clear that Vonthin was going to get lynched anyways. Hell, I did that last game as scum, if you aren't the deciding vote there is no reason to switch.
On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote: God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
Pls you dont need to curse.
I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough.
ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town!
I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town.
Note: There will be a one hour resolution period for night actions, so make sure they're in an hour before the deadline of 02:00 GMT (+00:00), thank you.
On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote: God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
Pls you dont need to curse.
I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough.
ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town!
I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town.
Well, see ya.
This is a good response btw Istand. I can see it from Templar's stance though aswell. This is like the first post you've actually gave any inkling on how you actually think. You gave us your point of view, and now people can roll that though around in their head. Will have to wait for a few more post though. I'm not just going to instantly write off all your previous post because of this one.
On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote: God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
Pls you dont need to curse.
I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough.
ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town!
I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town.
Well, see ya.
Question: GGTeMpLaR posted that in response to a post I made suggesting we vote for SagaZ or July617. If you think GGTeMpLaR was scum, do you think he was trying to deflect the vote away from other scum or do you think he was simply sowing discord?
playerboy definitely seemed to overreact to that whole situation. Much like you I didn't read e00s post as a soft claim. I want to hear playerboy's reasoning as to why he read it as a soft claim. Simply bringing up a role doesn't mean you're soft claiming it. playerboy also seems to be lurking more than he did last game. Last game despite being mafia he was one of the first people to speak up and was active making a lot of people believe he was town (much like Odin this game). Something to explore but a little early to be making scum claims
Also, speaking of odin, I want to be careful we don't fall into the same trap we did last game. I was suspicious of playerboy early last game but sat on it because I didn't want to make enemies. I don't want to make the same mistake again. He's pushing july and nyx hard, which look goods on paper, but if either of them end up turning town if we lynch them, I think that looks bad for odin.
At this point July flipping town would be catastrohpic for me. I can realize this which is why I asked him to explain his posts. Because my previous read I posted about him is no convincing to me. Although with Vonthin flipping town I'm not so sure anymore if he's scummy or just failing to properly explain himself in a way that I can understand.
Nyx's is giving us nothing, how can you expect me to group him as anything other than scum?
The more I think about it, I feel like nyx has been playing a weak town rather than strong mafia. His voting was weird, but other than that he hasn't done anything particularly scummy. He hasn't given us much to work with, but that could be a symptom of being a newer player rather than hiding in the shadows (a trap I fell into my first game). You could use this as a rallying point to get a lynch going knowing he's just playing a weak town and look innocent because other people agree he didn't contribute much. I single you out because a you are active and I think a lot of people think you are pro town and thus listen to what you have to say. This is something that happened to me last game and played a big role in the towns defeat.
On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote: God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
Pls you dont need to curse.
I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough.
ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town!
I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town.
Well, see ya.
Question: GGTeMpLaR posted that in response to a post I made suggesting we vote for SagaZ or July617. If you think GGTeMpLaR was scum, do you think he was trying to deflect the vote away from other scum or do you think he was simply sowing discord?
Maybe. There's no point in conjecturing a bunch of "what ifs." I think his line of thinking is really scummy & it's independent of July or SagaZ possible alignments. If he flips scum, it would be worth looking at but considering neither is in serious of danger of being lynched atm, I think it's just as likely that he might have just been deflecting off town onto a townie he's been pushing for a while.
I actually don't think nyx has a lot of explaining to do, as some of you have put it. it's not a strong read, but I peg him as town right now. all he's done is shown a lack of confidence + some major sheeping, but his voting patterns actually are what make me skeptical that he'd be mafia. I'll reread when I get home tonight, but off the top of my head, he (a) showed an easy willingness to hammer someone who ultimately turned out to be town (mafia would've known vonthin would flip green and that hammering him the way nyx did would put them in a very bad light) and (b) encouraged us not to switch votes at the last minute (reinforces point a). just some food for thought...
On October 15 2013 07:39 July617 wrote: Well here I am again, sorry I had a long sleep today, Odin I think your reads are good reads are strong, I can see why you pegged me as possible scum, I was just trying to talk and move things along but with that said yeah I should of added more onto my post's and contributed/clarified/spoke-up with ideas of my own.
My own personal reads ?
I don't really have confidence in anyone as of yet, I mean I know a good chunk of us are town but none of the post's here give much info (Besides mitt and playerboy going at each other . which is weird ) like i said again in a previous post we should be talking more but like E00e said we'll have a hard time finding mafia without actual evidence to back it up . So i've really got nothing so far. I'm just trying to read everyone safely and calmly.
On October 15 2013 18:11 July617 wrote: @seuss I'll give you that , my past five posts over and over again have been the pretty much the same thing, only because I really don't have an idea of who I should focus my attention to. Yes istandwithmitt is an easy lynch because of how he's acting but I believe there are better lynches out there. As to who ? I'm not so sure, I wish i could say SagaZ but he could just be playing bad town . And Whether it is bad town play or he's secretly mafia, I can't lean to either side without an explanation from him .
Here were my reads and reasoning, I voted for mitt because of the fact that he was written off day one with his own post's; yes admittedly they had more stronger of a case then myself but they were still bad IMO. As the day went on I started seeing the voltin votes going through, but i chose mitt in the end because he was IMO a bad town, he was playing like it and although now it's night one and he's still the same. Save us all the headaches and deal with it like we should of night
SagaZ what do you think about Templar as of now ? Do you agree with his reasoning on pg 18 of why we should vote for mitt? I was assumed to be attempting to fly under the radar with the voltin votes what if i asked you the same thing, do you think you flew under the radar of suspicion, the only one here 100% town is seus, I know we'd all like to develop a town circle but it's always best to stay on your toes don't you think ?
I'd also like to here from the rest of the town on SagaZ and your reads on him.
Expanding my thought's later I'd like to hear the answer's first .
So you actually do think that wasting a vote on Istand is a worthless vote. You're pretty much admitting to just taking the easy vote? The Nyx statement at the end was just a very brief rehashing mixed with a "Oh look, I'm helping" Nyx's one liners are the same use of Instands at this point to me. The only thing he hasn't done is post anything but them.
On October 16 2013 05:46 July617 wrote: U.S timezone's people, give me a break, this is day 1 here, day one and we've had four players being called for a lynch and a mighty big bandwagon going on with mitt nyx and vothin, with the exception of vothin right now, yes nyx and mitt do seem like viable choices, but are your reads really that sure that they're mafia? We could be lynching bad town and losing votes we may need later on down the road, I'd like to not have a reason to vote for mitt, but the way he's acting will only worsen with time. I'd like to believe that it will worsen with time but I really don't know, and I have to go with the fact's here and the fact's are that we need the town as strong and as trusted as can be if we're going to want to win, having bad and erratic play isn't helping us .
That's my opinion on the matter.
##Vote istandwithmitt
Nyx dont pressure vote, pressure voting is how mafia infiltrates peoples ranks, just explain yourself more, and be exact and absolute with your points.
Everything short of reading what you seriously already posted? Did you read the two and a half pages before it? "Oh his post are worse than mine" If this is true why are you still around? Why is Nyx getting the nice crumble of a supposed tip? Why do you choose mitt over Vontin? Are you trying to pull the weight off your scum buddy? I don't like this. Vonthin is a strong lynch for the town right now. You could of gone from one no poster to another. I only remember a few post that got brought up.
On October 16 2013 07:14 July617 wrote: Seus, I have nothing left to give you, Im bashing my head on the desk trying to figure out what I can do to make you see that I am town . I explained my vote on mitt and yet you still seem to believe i'm mafia, even going as far as saying you'd bet your "virtual life" on it . I don't know what to say, I've tried explaining myself but you just continue to call it useless and meaningless, if that's how you see it then so be it . I have nothing else to say to you because It seems like your stuck on this tirade of me being mafia, you asked me for my opinion and i gave it to you .
Yeah I jumped on the bandwagon, because at this point mitt is no use to us as a town player, he continues to write even less then myself and he doesn't seem to care anymore, why are we keeping him around then? You're saying he's contributed more than me ? I'm doing what you asked me to do in your previous post, I gave my opinion and now i'm getting attacked again by you for the one thing you wanted me to do .
On October 16 2013 10:32 OdinOfPergo wrote: So why don't you? You complain about a lack of details. Yet you don't ask any questions.
On October 15 2013 07:39 July617 wrote: Well here I am again, sorry I had a long sleep today, Odin I think your reads are good reads are strong, I can see why you pegged me as possible scum, I was just trying to talk and move things along but with that said yeah I should of added more onto my post's and contributed/clarified/spoke-up with ideas of my own.
My own personal reads ?
I don't really have confidence in anyone as of yet, I mean I know a good chunk of us are town but none of the post's here give much info (Besides mitt and playerboy going at each other . which is weird ) like i said again in a previous post we should be talking more but like E00e said we'll have a hard time finding mafia without actual evidence to back it up . So i've really got nothing so far. I'm just trying to read everyone safely and calmly.
On October 15 2013 18:11 July617 wrote: @seuss I'll give you that , my past five posts over and over again have been the pretty much the same thing, only because I really don't have an idea of who I should focus my attention to. Yes istandwithmitt is an easy lynch because of how he's acting but I believe there are better lynches out there. As to who ? I'm not so sure, I wish i could say SagaZ but he could just be playing bad town . And Whether it is bad town play or he's secretly mafia, I can't lean to either side without an explanation from him .
Here were my reads and reasoning, I voted for mitt because of the fact that he was written off day one with his own post's; yes admittedly they had more stronger of a case then myself but they were still bad IMO. As the day went on I started seeing the voltin votes going through, but i chose mitt in the end because he was IMO a bad town, he was playing like it and although now it's night one and he's still the same. Save us all the headaches and deal with it like we should of night
SagaZ what do you think about Templar as of now ? Do you agree with his reasoning on pg 18 of why we should vote for mitt? I was assumed to be attempting to fly under the radar with the voltin votes what if i asked you the same thing, do you think you flew under the radar of suspicion, the only one here 100% town is seus, I know we'd all like to develop a town circle but it's always best to stay on your toes don't you think ?
I'd also like to here from the rest of the town on SagaZ and your reads on him.
Expanding my thought's later I'd like to hear the answer's first .
So you actually do think that wasting a vote on Istand is a worthless vote. You're pretty much admitting to just taking the easy vote? The Nyx statement at the end was just a very brief rehashing mixed with a "Oh look, I'm helping" Nyx's one liners are the same use of Instands at this point to me. The only thing he hasn't done is post anything but them.
On October 16 2013 05:46 July617 wrote: U.S timezone's people, give me a break, this is day 1 here, day one and we've had four players being called for a lynch and a mighty big bandwagon going on with mitt nyx and vothin, with the exception of vothin right now, yes nyx and mitt do seem like viable choices, but are your reads really that sure that they're mafia? We could be lynching bad town and losing votes we may need later on down the road, I'd like to not have a reason to vote for mitt, but the way he's acting will only worsen with time. I'd like to believe that it will worsen with time but I really don't know, and I have to go with the fact's here and the fact's are that we need the town as strong and as trusted as can be if we're going to want to win, having bad and erratic play isn't helping us .
That's my opinion on the matter.
##Vote istandwithmitt
Nyx dont pressure vote, pressure voting is how mafia infiltrates peoples ranks, just explain yourself more, and be exact and absolute with your points.
Everything short of reading what you seriously already posted? Did you read the two and a half pages before it? "Oh his post are worse than mine" If this is true why are you still around? Why is Nyx getting the nice crumble of a supposed tip? Why do you choose mitt over Vontin? Are you trying to pull the weight off your scum buddy? I don't like this. Vonthin is a strong lynch for the town right now. You could of gone from one no poster to another. I only remember a few post that got brought up.
##vote July617
On October 16 2013 07:14 July617 wrote: Seus, I have nothing left to give you, Im bashing my head on the desk trying to figure out what I can do to make you see that I am town . I explained my vote on mitt and yet you still seem to believe i'm mafia, even going as far as saying you'd bet your "virtual life" on it . I don't know what to say, I've tried explaining myself but you just continue to call it useless and meaningless, if that's how you see it then so be it . I have nothing else to say to you because It seems like your stuck on this tirade of me being mafia, you asked me for my opinion and i gave it to you .
Yeah I jumped on the bandwagon, because at this point mitt is no use to us as a town player, he continues to write even less then myself and he doesn't seem to care anymore, why are we keeping him around then? You're saying he's contributed more than me ? I'm doing what you asked me to do in your previous post, I gave my opinion and now i'm getting attacked again by you for the one thing you wanted me to do .
EBWOP : Fucked up on the page placement . sorry guys .
Here were my reads and reasoning, I voted for mitt because of the fact that he was written off day one with his own post's; yes admittedly they had more stronger of a case then myself but they were still bad IMO. As the day went on I started seeing the voltin votes going through, but i chose mitt in the end because he was IMO a bad town, he was playing like it and although now it's night one and he's still the same. Save us all the headaches and deal with it like we should of night
SagaZ what do you think about Templar as of now ? Do you agree with his reasoning on pg 18 of why we should vote for mitt? I was assumed to be attempting to fly under the radar with the voltin votes what if i asked you the same thing, do you think you flew under the radar of suspicion, the only one here 100% town is seus, I know we'd all like to develop a town circle but it's always best to stay on your toes don't you think ?
I'd also like to here from the rest of the town on SagaZ and your reads on him.
Expanding my thought's later I'd like to hear the answer's first .
On October 17 2013 03:42 Bereft wrote: I actually don't think nyx has a lot of explaining to do, as some of you have put it. it's not a strong read, but I peg him as town right now. all he's done is shown a lack of confidence + some major sheeping, but his voting patterns actually are what make me skeptical that he'd be mafia. I'll reread when I get home tonight, but off the top of my head, he (a) showed an easy willingness to hammer someone who ultimately turned out to be town (mafia would've known vonthin would flip green and that hammering him the way nyx did would put them in a very bad light) and (b) encouraged us not to switch votes at the last minute (reinforces point a). just some food for thought...
I don't like this line of thinking, the first points I agree with, that kind of lack of confidence seems to be common with townies in these games (onlywonderboy specifically does it too) but the voting? But if that's the case its probably also common with scum. You could easily say that he knew that you would know that so he went for it anyways which is why I don't like thinking like that. Plus, the way he reacted to Vonthin voting for him tells me he didn't even think about if he was hammering him or not. He voted very fast and without hesitation. After that it's safe for a scum to not change their vote often, especially since him changing his vote later would not effect the outcome as others had joined in afterwards.
On October 16 2013 18:57 SagaZ wrote: I guess there is some mafia in this vote participant, so the people here should be under some scrutiny. Aside from Seuss from this group, my strongest town read is Bereft. Even though Vonthin was a miss lynch, his reasoning looked strong and prevented the mitt super band wagon.
My strongest scum reads: nyx and onlywonderboy. I have said it and will repeat it, they give us absolutely nothing to work with and jump on the easy lynch train.
Still looks mafia but less than the 2 above: playerboy345, less than the others for the sole reason that he gave a bit more to work with. Again, what I really really hate about his posts is how hard he goes on E00e for what E00e said (which looked like an honest newby mistake to me). He says talking about blues is a big nono this early in the game (which is perfectly resonable) but then he proceed so damn hard on it that at this point he's been the one talking about it more than the rest. I also don't like the timing of his post, after Seuss brough some order to the town discussion by asking to focus on me and july, player comes in and repeat his grief on E00e. Looks a bit like he was trying to sidetrack the discussion to me. He still reads less scummy than the 2 above to me, honestly what I say about the timing might be absolutly nothing and just how his timezone works. My post looks dedicated to him because I think I already made my view on wonderboy and nyx in my earlier post but not really on him.
I think there is a good chance to be like 1 or 2 scums in the people that voted Vorthin. So from my perspective, I'd really like to hear nyxnyxnyx, onlywonderboy and player345. Because right now I'd feel comfortable going for either of those. Bereft's toughs would be good too, especially cause so far he has been helping the town I think.
And to end on a side note, how does everyone stands on mitt now? Cause I am now very fking confused...
~I'm a lot less certain of Bereft as town after Vonthin flipped town. Based on all his posts, he seems like an intelligent player which makes me skeptical of why he was willing to risk a miss-lynch on a potentially useful town versus a probably useless town. His reasons made sense, I just feel like my reasons for istandwithmitt were a much safer play that made more sense. You pointing out that he prevented the "istandwithmitt" bandwagon is a little ironic considering that the vote just became a "Vonthin" bandwagon that everyone jumped on instead.
~I actually agree with you that there are likely one, maybe even two mafia in the vote. However, unlike you, the only person I'm willing to write off at this point is the confirmed town Seuss.
onlywonderboy still hasn't contributed enough for me to get any sort of read on him.
I find your criticism of playerboy345 for tunneling E00e somewhat inconsistent. Yes, playerboy345 completely overreacted, but I think you're looking too much into it given your willingness to tunnel on nyxnyxnyx for his blind following of OdinOfPergo.
I was the first person to point suspicion onto nyxnyxnyx for his lap dog play towards OdinOfPergo and it made me highly suspicious of both of them despite what I believe to be OdinOfPergo's pro-town play this game. However, it isn't enough to commit to nyxnyxnyx being mafia as quickly as you seem willing to. This point, combined with your continued faith in Bereft makes me actually suspicious of a Bereft-SagaZ connection just as much as I am of a nyxnyxnyx-OdinOfPergo connection, if not more-so. I want to note it could be possible in either of these connections that there is just one mafia buddying-up to a town and it isn't necessary that if one of the partners in the pair is mafia, that the other need be either. However, these connections are definitely worth noting and looking into.
Regarding playerboy345 and E00e, I would like more information to go off of, but I am definitely more comfortable lite-reading E00e as town at this point and I'm unsure on whether playerboy345 is the possible 3rd mafia in one of the two pairs I just listed.
Another possibility for the 3rd mafia could be July617, however, I'm more comfortable with him as town at this point. If anyone else besides the confirmed town had said this first, I would be almost certain that July617 was mafia with the person who said it:
On October 16 2013 07:29 Bereft wrote: Seuss, if you can gather enough steam from town on this, fwiw I'd be willing to switch from Vonthin to July.
however in the event that you can't convince anyone, Sagaz I'd recommend you switch your vote to Vonthin because otherwise you are 100% throwing away your vote.
If Vonthin flips Mafia we can read a lot into people's votes. If he flips town we can be pretty certain July isn't mafia, which will cease the abusing relationship between his head and his desk I am at fault for.
-I'm not confused about istandwithmitt, but I don't really know what to do with him now. Lynching a weak, non-contributing town seems like a perfectly safe Day 1 lynch, but after that you really need to raise the bar to targeting actual mafia rather than trimming the fat on town.
On October 16 2013 22:11 Balla24 wrote: I also have a town read on E00, and that's probably my best town read. This guy has been solid in his reasoning and I like his plays in reaction to playerboy's call out. Very nice, IMO.
I do want to revisit the Playerboy -> E00 situation. Playerboy, how do you read that as a soft-claim? He was genuinely trying to start a discussion on when cop should come out because that's an easy way for scum to slip and for scum to give a town-like opinion on something (which is better than not saying anything at all). It's a common way to start some conversation on day1. The fact that you were so angry at the fact that he did that really makes me think you're trying to gain town cred for flipping out over some small mistake. Also I'd like to hear about why you think E00 saying "i'm not going to confirm or deny i'm cop" is bad as well. If he's a good townie he has to debunk your "soft-claiming talk" whether he is cop or he is not.
As far as nyx. ATM he is my highest scum read and I will push for him today as long as nothing changes during this nightphase/nightactions. Nyx, why did you think Vonthin was mafia? What specifically did you not like about his small defense (things he didn't mention etc etc)? Why was switching his vote to you the last nail in the coffin for you for him being scum?
~While I like your town read on E00e, my reasons are completely different as I mostly read his posts as naive (but genuine) town.
What I am noting however is that you in general seem to have the same reads as SagaZ and seem to be giving the same reasons SagaZ gave, which makes you a likely 3rd mafia in my hypothetical SagaZ-Bereft connection.
Those reads being: -you like E00e and dislike playerboy345 for his pressure on E00e. -you scum read hard on nyxnyxnyx
You didn't really say you town-read on Bereft, which would seal the deal for me, but saying nothing on them is mildly suspicious as well. What are your thoughts on Bereft and why?
I'd also like to hear Bereft's thoughts on SagaZ and Balla24 at this point.
On October 16 2013 08:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote: While I respect and relate to your judgment of istandwithmitt, I think if there's ever a day where we can afford to lynch the weakest town instead of a mafia, it's day 1. If he's mafia at this point, then all is well. If he's town, then I think it's better we get rid of him now rather than let him end up in the final 3 and remain a target of suspicion - in addition to the possibility that his seemingly arbitrary reads could end up being the final deciding vote on who is mafia or not.
Hey this is a really scummy post. Can you guys tell me why?
Why don't you explain it because I thought it was the most pro-town post in the thread so far, which I continue to think after reading this latest post of yours being followed by a vote on me without any reasons whatsoever besides "I think it's scummy".
I don't want to town read Bereft too early because I view him as a very good player and thus could easily get people into his pocket. I do think he's town but not enough for me to really rally behind him.
Also, GGTeMpLaR do us a favor and read all the posts, then respond. Watching you post like this is like watching someone reacting to the bombinb of Pearl Harbor as if it happened today.
Ok I will adress your post July, I will start with how my perception of Templar has been trough the game so far, and then I will say what I think about your play. As an introduction I want to say that you 2 look very similar at the end of day 1, manly because you are the only two left on the mitt train. My conclusion will be what I think the key differences between you two are.
About Templar. He started the game by expressing suspicion on a supposed interaction between me and mitt, I think it was a bit far fetched but still made some sense at that time, however after mitt went crazy and started pointing fingers at everyone I think his reasoning doesn't hold ground anymore. What was important for me when I read it at the time is this: at that time we were swimming between my stance on inactive, Odin's idea of RNG vote, and mitt's first vote without explanation. He was pretty much the first one to propose something different from all these topics that quite frankly were going into circles. In the middle, he went for mitt as soon as mitt made his second accusation, and second post of the game. I am pretty sure it was a big WTF moment for everyone, for me it was at least. Templar immediately sees a scum tell and jumps into him. That is good in my opinion, but everyone did the same, and even if he had not started it, I'm pretty sure someone else would have. Then he goes silent for a while, he comes back to gives a piece of his mind and stick with mitt's vote. Honestly at this point, the day was pretty much over, he gave his reasons to lynch mitt, while the wagon to go for Vonthin was pretty much established. Him staying on mitt or going to Vonthin doesn't speak alot to me.
You say your 2 situations are very similar, and it is true, you are the 2 left on the mitt train. If I had to pick between the 2 of you I'd pick you, my reason is simple: timing of the posts. You were active when Seuss takes the town in hand and ask the situation to be shifted to me and you. You say you think mitt is town, albeit a very bad one but is an easy lynch and that there are better lynchs out there. But you'd like more information before deciding yourself. OK, there is obviously no substance to a post that says he would rather wait until something happens. It is careful, it looks ok. Some time passes, decent amount of posting goes and now Seuss calls you out for not posting. And finally there it is BOOM, vote mitt. your last post said specifically that you tough there were better lynches, so definetly something changed. But you don't seem to care enough to share with us. So it is a direct contradiction with what you said just before. Timing wise, you are here and active when Seuss asks to focus votes on either you or Vonthin, but you proceed to just martyr yourself. You don't even address the contradictions that Seuss points. Lucky for you, the Vonthin train is at full speed and there is no time to put some serious heat onto you. Now; Vonthin turned out green, so it gives you some credibility as a town. I kind of disagree with Seuss about how this makes you inocent all of a sudden. You were in no real danger to die day 1, so sticking on the mitt bandwagon or hoping onto the Vonthin one doesn't really change anything.
So yeah, you two don't vote for the misslynch, that give you some town credit in my eyes. But what really bothers me is that you were present during the endgame discussion, that you could see Seuss trying to focus the attention so we would get maximum information from the lynches and you didn't do shit about it.
I am not even sure about what you mean with this slipping under the radar thing. I think absolutely no one should fly off anyone's radar, I'm sure people are still suspicious of me, I am still suspicious of all too. Even my town reads I will still be careful with how they post. I'll be on my toes for the whole game, you can count on that.
sorry this is long, tl;dr: - I am undecided on Templar, him not voting Vonthin gives him town cred just like you, but the timing of his posts doesn't give me alot to work with. - I think that at that point in the game, he could have switched his vote and it would have had no consequence. Obviously,in retrospect now that we know Vonthin was town, I'd rather have mitt dead and vonthin alive than the other way around, but that's cheating. - I don't think I fly under the radar of suspicion, and that this is a weird question. - I also think it's good to stay on our toes, but I also think that you stay too much on yours. Be it about trusting or distrusting people you seem to be on the fence for everyone. Time is a resource for us, we can't wait forever for thing to happen.
On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote: God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
Pls you dont need to curse.
I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough.
ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town!
I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town.
Well, see ya.
When did I ever say I thought you were scum all game? I was initially suspicious of both you and SagaZ based on your one initial post and then several pages of silence.
When you made your reappearance, I was pretty convinced whether you were town or mafia, you were the safest lynch for the town because you were making poor contributions without any reasons behind them.
I'd disagree that it's never safe play to lynch a weak town and I gave my reasons for why lynching a horrendously weak town is safe play on Day 1.
On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote: God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
Pls you dont need to curse.
I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough.
ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town!
I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town.
Well, see ya.
Question: GGTeMpLaR posted that in response to a post I made suggesting we vote for SagaZ or July617. If you think GGTeMpLaR was scum, do you think he was trying to deflect the vote away from other scum or do you think he was simply sowing discord?
Maybe. There's no point in conjecturing a bunch of "what ifs." I think his line of thinking is really scummy & it's independent of July or SagaZ possible alignments. If he flips scum, it would be worth looking at but considering neither is in serious of danger of being lynched atm, I think it's just as likely that he might have just been deflecting off town onto a townie he's been pushing for a while.
This was actually a pro-town post with proper reasoning for your thoughts. More of this and I think town isn't in nearly as crappy of a position as I thought we would be in if you end up in the final 3.
On October 17 2013 05:34 Seuss wrote: Also, GGTeMpLaR do us a favor and read all the posts, then respond. Watching you post like this is like watching someone reacting to the bombinb of Pearl Harbor as if it happened today.
So GGTemplar, you posted that you think I'm in some kind of scum pair with Bereft and you put that higher than the nyx-odin pair? That makes no sense, I gave my reason why I think Bereft is town. People that voted for the miss lynch are suspicious, there should be at least one mafia, possibly two. If I take myself and seuss from that group (I am explaining my toughs, so this is of course from my perspective) among those people we have Bereft, Nyxnyxnyx, Onlywonderboy and Player345. Are you honestly trying to say that you think that Bereft is more suspicious than Nyx at this point? Or more than Onlywonderboy? the 2 guys that haven't really said anything. More suspicious than player345? maybe you have a different point of view than mine and maybe you see things differently, but I highly doubt that there are 3 or more mafias in this vote group, so therefore, from my perspective Bereft looks town. Of course I am not going to sheep on him like nyx did with Odin... Just that I might be more inclined to roll with plans if they come from him. And before you twist my words, of course Seuss takes priority planning wise. I'd say that If Seuss is 100% town, for me Bereft looks like a 75%
On October 17 2013 06:04 SagaZ wrote: So GGTemplar, you posted that you think I'm in some kind of scum pair with Bereft and you put that higher than the nyx-odin pair? That makes no sense, I gave my reason why I think Bereft is town. People that voted for the miss lynch are suspicious, there should be at least one mafia, possibly two. If I take myself and seuss from that group (I am explaining my toughs, so this is of course from my perspective) among those people we have Bereft, Nyxnyxnyx, Onlywonderboy and Player345. Are you honestly trying to say that you think that Bereft is more suspicious than Nyx at this point? Or more than Onlywonderboy? the 2 guys that haven't really said anything. More suspicious than player345? maybe you have a different point of view than mine and maybe you see things differently, but I highly doubt that there are 3 or more mafias in this vote group, so therefore, from my perspective Bereft looks town. Of course I am not going to sheep on him like nyx did with Odin... Just that I might be more inclined to roll with plans if they come from him. And before you twist my words, of course Seuss takes priority planning wise. I'd say that If Seuss is 100% town, for me Bereft looks like a 75%
On October 17 2013 06:04 SagaZ wrote: So GGTemplar, you posted that you think I'm in some kind of scum pair with Bereft and you put that higher than the nyx-odin pair? That makes no sense, I gave my reason why I think Bereft is town. People that voted for the miss lynch are suspicious, there should be at least one mafia, possibly two. If I take myself and seuss from that group (I am explaining my toughs, so this is of course from my perspective) among those people we have Bereft, Nyxnyxnyx, Onlywonderboy and Player345. Are you honestly trying to say that you think that Bereft is more suspicious than Nyx at this point? Or more than Onlywonderboy? the 2 guys that haven't really said anything. More suspicious than player345? maybe you have a different point of view than mine and maybe you see things differently, but I highly doubt that there are 3 or more mafias in this vote group, so therefore, from my perspective Bereft looks town. Of course I am not going to sheep on him like nyx did with Odin... Just that I might be more inclined to roll with plans if they come from him. And before you twist my words, of course Seuss takes priority planning wise. I'd say that If Seuss is 100% town, for me Bereft looks like a 75%
You know, I hadn't fully caught up to the thread when I made that post, in particular I hadn't read this yet:
On October 17 2013 03:42 Bereft wrote: I actually don't think nyx has a lot of explaining to do, as some of you have put it. it's not a strong read, but I peg him as town right now. all he's done is shown a lack of confidence + some major sheeping, but his voting patterns actually are what make me skeptical that he'd be mafia. I'll reread when I get home tonight, but off the top of my head, he (a) showed an easy willingness to hammer someone who ultimately turned out to be town (mafia would've known vonthin would flip green and that hammering him the way nyx did would put them in a very bad light) and (b) encouraged us not to switch votes at the last minute (reinforces point a). just some food for thought...
Which is a moderate defense of nyxnyxnyx. I'm currently trying to draw connections between players and this connection between Bereft defending nyxnyxnyx, nyxnyxnyx who is buddying up to OdinOfPergo, and OdinOfPergo who is suspicious of nyxnyxnyx is going to force me to rethink the lines I've drawn.
I wasn't fond of a Bereft-nyxnyxnyx connection before but I have to consider it as a possibility now.
I think it will be best if I just wait for tonight's kill before I get lost in theorycrafting again as it will provide a lot of useful information about what lines should be drawn where.
On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote: God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
Pls you dont need to curse.
I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough.
ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town!
I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town.
Well, see ya.
When did I ever say I thought you were scum all game? I was initially suspicious of both you and SagaZ based on your one initial post and then several pages of silence.
When you made your reappearance, I was pretty convinced whether you were town or mafia, you were the safest lynch for the town because you were making poor contributions without any reasons behind them.
I'd disagree that it's never safe play to lynch a weak town and I gave my reasons for why lynching a horrendously weak town is safe play on Day 1.
Yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about. If you look at his post history, almost all of his stuff is about how I'm scum until he started convincing whoever that I was a good lynch even if I was town. In this post he seems to disagree with his stance & says he doesn't care what alignment I am but that I should be lynched either way & then makes a justification for if I flip town.
Basically, this dude is distancing himself more & more from his reads & setting up if/when I flip town. The fact that he keeps steering closer & closer to how it's good to lynch me if I'm town rather than why we should because I'm scum, makes it pretty evident that he knows what I'm going to flip & that it's town.
For real, this guy should be lynched tomorrow.
ggtemplar if you'd be so kind I'd like to know what your thoughts on playerboy345 is. Thanks in advance!
On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote: God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think.
Pls you dont need to curse.
I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough.
ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town!
I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town.
Well, see ya.
When did I ever say I thought you were scum all game? I was initially suspicious of both you and SagaZ based on your one initial post and then several pages of silence.
When you made your reappearance, I was pretty convinced whether you were town or mafia, you were the safest lynch for the town because you were making poor contributions without any reasons behind them.
I'd disagree that it's never safe play to lynch a weak town and I gave my reasons for why lynching a horrendously weak town is safe play on Day 1.
Yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about. If you look at his post history, almost all of his stuff is about how I'm scum until he started convincing whoever that I was a good lynch even if I was town. In this post he seems to disagree with his stance & says he doesn't care what alignment I am but that I should be lynched either way & then makes a justification for if I flip town.
Basically, this dude is distancing himself more & more from his reads & setting up if/when I flip town. The fact that he keeps steering closer & closer to how it's good to lynch me if I'm town rather than why we should because I'm scum, makes it pretty evident that he knows what I'm going to flip & that it's town.
For real, this guy should be lynched tomorrow.
ggtemplar if you'd be so kind I'd like to know what your thoughts on playerboy345 is. Thanks in advance!
I didn't convince anyone you were a good lynch even as town.
You convinced everyone you were a good lynch when your 2nd-5th? posts were garbage. Fortunately for you, Bereft came in and redirected town onto someone else.
I like that you're adding more content to your post but you seriously need to go back and reread these posts because your information is wrong.
This was your second post after 4-5 pages of silence.
On October 15 2013 04:35 istandwithmitt wrote: ##vote: playerboy345
This guy is posting nothingness. Trying to get people to make calls while actually providing nothing wrt scumminess of players. You all can bandwagon this vote, no worries.
On October 15 2013 11:29 Bereft wrote: also lawl, adding July to that list, just read his post above. July, please give us some reads within the next 12 hours -- that should be enough time for you to "safely and calmly" get your reads together.
We don't actually need every last poster giving a full list of reads. In fact, it's a fairly decent way for mafia members to look productive without actually contributing anything useful.
The thread is also drawing very quiet, which is good news for the mafia, so I'm going to incite some discussion.
At this point I believe istandwithmitt is just an absolutely terrible player/communicator. He's confrontational, dogmatic, egotistical, and generally a pain in the butt, but he's drawn way, way more negative attention to himself than makes sense for mafia. Bereft is right that we should be focusing on finding other targets right now.
To that end, I believe the two most likely mafia players are SagaZ and July617. I'll present each case in turn.
While he was the first player to post following the start of the game, he's been a sparse participant since. His first post immediately drew suspicion for a number of reasons.
1. Despite its word count it's actually very light on content. 2. The actual suggestions contained within are highly questionable.
Observe:
On October 14 2013 11:26 SagaZ wrote: As a disclaimer early, I think we should all agree on something. We are all newbies here, so if you fuck up or say something dumb, don't play the "oh sorry, I am new I didn't know". [/color]
[color=green]Seuss is our confirmed town, we should try to organize around him. For a day 1 lynch, I think lynching some1 innactive is the best way to go.[/color] Having innactive players around just give mafia the opportunity to sit back and do nothing while town runs around screaming at each other. So give information about yourself if you can, so that others will be able to read you easy.
My stance this early is easy: I will vote for people that post nothing worthy or nothing at all, unless some1 slips. I am also more likely to vote for people that say suspicious stuff and then say "sorry I didn't know I am new"
SagaZ spends both the first and last paragraphs primarily rambling about how people shouldn't play the newbie card. If all he really wanted to do was encourage newbies to post, as he later claimed, he could easily have done so with a far more positive tone. He doesn't sound like he's encouraging newbies as much as discouraging them.
While he does make two seemingly reasonable suggestions, they are obvious and ultimately counter-productive. As the sole confirmed townie in the game, my lifespan is likely to be short. Rallying around me exclusively would simply set the town up for trouble upon my inevitable death. Similarly, lynching players who'll simply be modkilled does nothing for the town either.
So SagaZ' first post discouraged activity and made no useful suggestions. That's enough to arouse suspicion, but not to conclude he is mafia.
That brings us to his second post:
On October 14 2013 20:11 SagaZ wrote: Of course I meant lurker lynch, afkers will get modkilled after all. If one guy is not saying anything in the thread or very little, but still turn out to vote for people without giving reasoning... that would be very scum telling to me. I guess it is fairly obvious to everyone, but pointing it out will make them talk whether they want it or not, and that gives information. I took the opportunity of the first post to basically say "game started, don't hide behind your inexperience and post".
For town to win we need 2 thing: - Get everyone active - Organize around our confirmed towny Seuss
@nyxnyxnyx: Care to explain why you trust Odin? Him being so hyper posty makes me nervous but he actually present points for us to discuss on, which creates discussion and is therefore good for town. It is weird to me at least that you come in, decide to side with odin even thought we have a confirmed townie.
In this post he claims he meant "lurker" when he said "inactive". However, in his first post he clearly stated that his potential vote targets included those who posted "nothing at all". SagaZ is backpedaling here, and making it seem reasonable by repeating the reasoning that undermined his previous position. He also very carefully drops his excuse for the weird newbie-discouraging rambling at the end of an unrelated paragraph, burying it.
"Getting everyone active" is an important step for towns looking to win, but SagaZ doesn't actually have any suggestions on how to do that, and doesn't participate enough himself. He again says everyone should organize around me, also without suggesting how or acknowledging the obvious flaw in the strategy (e.g. I'm a dead man walking).
Finally, he ends the post promoting discord. While nyxnyxnyx' decision to trust Odin could have used some additional vetting, at that point Odin was at the nexus of a fairly chaotic argument, and rallying behind his "let's randomly pick someone and put them in the hotseat to get information flowing" idea would have killed a lot of the useless chatter while promoting helpful discussion. Questioning nyxnyxnyx at this point only served to perpetuate the pointless debate, and promote distrust.
SagaZ third post was entirely inconsequential, and above analysis. His fourth post at least pretended to have substance:
On October 15 2013 05:02 SagaZ wrote: First impressions: going into this I was feeling most uncomfortable with nyxnyxnyx, blindly following some1 sounds like a pretty bad idea for a town, and especially stating it in the thread sounds more to me like he was trying to get onto OdinOfPergo's good side. And the I read istandwithmitt's post and I'm like wtf. He voted for me at the beginning and I thought it was alright, aggressive play-style pointing fingers early to get some heat and get the discussion going, but then instead of making use of it he just go silent. And now this switcharoo vote with no explanation and abrasive behavior?
There are a lot of words in this post, but it essentially says nothing. The entire latter half is a rehash of what everyone else had already said about istandwithmitt. The former half mostly repeats his previous misgivings about nyxnyxnyx' decision, adding an extra touch of distrust of both nyx and Odin. No progress towards anything happens over the course of these paragraphs.
Finally, there's SagaZ latest post:
On October 15 2013 05:20 SagaZ wrote: I'd like to hear what playerboy345 has to say to Istandwithmitt's accusations; just complete the weird triangle between them 2 and E00e.
At this point debating with istandwithmitt was utterly pointless, whoever was doing it. I had said as much earlier. Promoting a useless discussion is never helpful to the town.
It is for these reasons that I believe SagaZ has a very high probability of being mafia, and is worthy of a lynching.
The only useful contribution he's made was his response to Odin's confusing RNG plan. At the time Odin's confusing manner of communicating made it seem like the plan was to randomly select someone, lynch them, and call it a day. That ultimately wasn't what Odin was aiming for, but at the time it seemed that way and if July hadn't responded as he did someone else would have.
Which brings us to his other 5 posts. They all say essentially the same thing, "I don't want to lynch anyone yet, let's wait and talk more." If everyone was jumping to conclusions in the first four hours istandwithmitt style that might have been fine, but with practically half our time spent he's still waiting for a sign from God (or is it the Godfather?).
The only player who has contributed less is Balla24, who hasn't posted at all.
Keeping his head this low, and trying to keep people deferring the lynching decision as long as possible, makes it a high probability that July617 is mafia.
Until such time as either or both of these individuals has a convincing defense established, it's my preference that we lynch one of them over istandwithmitt, much as it pains me.
While I respect and relate to your judgment of istandwithmitt, I think if there's ever a day where we can afford to lynch the weakest town instead of a mafia, it's day 1. If he's mafia at this point, then all is well. If he's town, then I think it's better we get rid of him now rather than let him end up in the final 3 and remain a target of suspicion - in addition to the possibility that his seemingly arbitrary reads could end up being the final deciding vote on who is mafia or not.
On October 17 2013 03:37 onlywonderboy wrote: The more I think about it, I feel like nyx has been playing a weak town rather than strong mafia. His voting was weird, but other than that he hasn't done anything particularly scummy. He hasn't given us much to work with, but that could be a symptom of being a newer player rather than hiding in the shadows (a trap I fell into my first game). You could use this as a rallying point to get a lynch going knowing he's just playing a weak town and look innocent because other people agree he didn't contribute much. I single you out because a you are active and I think a lot of people think you are pro town and thus listen to what you have to say. This is something that happened to me last game and played a big role in the towns defeat.
The main problem I have with Nyx is the fact that his post lack any content. If you glance back over right before the end of day 1, I mention that I'm also not willing to lynch him for that fact. If I'm not going to assume Istand is for sure scum for the same style of posting, how can I assume it for sure on Nyx? This stops me from voting for him but I'm still going to try to get some pressure on him to step it up. I'm sure you remember the flurry of crap Istand got for this. His latest post are actually attempting to remedy this to an extent. Why can't I pressure Nyx and hope for the same? Right now especially, since people are pairing me with his lack of content. I've spent this whole game being fairly open about how and why I view players the way I do. If he had posted any sort of thoughts on why he was following me maby I wouldn't mind this as much. What else, other than probe for answers, can I do?
(This doesn't mean I think very highly of either of them. Simply that I can't really deem either as for sure mafia.)
EBWOP : Fucked up on the page placement . sorry guys .
Here were my reads and reasoning, I voted for mitt because of the fact that he was written off day one with his own post's; yes admittedly they had more stronger of a case then myself but they were still bad IMO. As the day went on I started seeing the voltin votes going through, but i chose mitt in the end because he was IMO a bad town, he was playing like it and although now it's night one and he's still the same. Save us all the headaches and deal with it like we should of night
SagaZ what do you think about Templar as of now ? Do you agree with his reasoning on pg 18 of why we should vote for mitt? I was assumed to be attempting to fly under the radar with the voltin votes what if i asked you the same thing, do you think you flew under the radar of suspicion, the only one here 100% town is seus, I know we'd all like to develop a town circle but it's always best to stay on your toes don't you think ?
I'd also like to here from the rest of the town on SagaZ and your reads on him.
Expanding my thought's later I'd like to hear the answer's first .
Ok July,
I'm going to change my perspective on this and look at it from yours. You're pushing into this from a point of "Well, I don't have any 100% scum reads, and nothing else has been posted to fully convince me of any. This being the case, I'm going to vote Istand because even if he's town he's just dead weight."
I only understand this off the basis that you don't find anyone else's arguments for lynches worth following. I don't really understand why you would just ignore them then. Why not try to post critisism on them if you questioned their reasoning? Wouldn't that be better for the town anyway?
I found playerboy345's initial reaction to E00e over the top (as I've stated many times), and found his reasons for thinking E00e was soft-claiming to be weak.
But as the pages went on, many people seemed to get stuck on his play here and wouldn't move past it (and actually bandwagon restated my initial thoughts on the matter, constantly bringing up his reasons for thinking the soft-claim was weak), which I found suspicious because while playerboy345's actions towards E00e were suspicious, I didn't find them damning him as a mafia, and found the continued restating of what I had already said to be fluff.
Right now I have a light read on playerboy345 as mafia, but he would be my 3rd mafia pick at the moment behind other stronger connections I have already noted as possibilities. Depending on who dies tonight though, he actually might be the safest kill if I can see him being the 3rd mafia in multiple hypothetical scenarios.
On October 17 2013 03:37 onlywonderboy wrote: The more I think about it, I feel like nyx has been playing a weak town rather than strong mafia. His voting was weird, but other than that he hasn't done anything particularly scummy. He hasn't given us much to work with, but that could be a symptom of being a newer player rather than hiding in the shadows (a trap I fell into my first game). You could use this as a rallying point to get a lynch going knowing he's just playing a weak town and look innocent because other people agree he didn't contribute much. I single you out because a you are active and I think a lot of people think you are pro town and thus listen to what you have to say. This is something that happened to me last game and played a big role in the towns defeat.
The main problem I have with Nyx is the fact that his post lack any content. If you glance back over right before the end of day 1, I mention that I'm also not willing to lynch him for that fact. If I'm not going to assume Istand is for sure scum for the same style of posting, how can I assume it for sure on Nyx? This stops me from voting for him but I'm still going to try to get some pressure on him to step it up. I'm sure you remember the flurry of crap Istand got for this. His latest post are actually attempting to remedy this to an extent. Why can't I pressure Nyx and hope for the same? Right now especially, since people are pairing me with his lack of content. I've spent this whole game being fairly open about how and why I view players the way I do. If he had posted any sort of thoughts on why he was following me maby I wouldn't mind this as much. What else, other than probe for answers, can I do?
(This doesn't mean I think very highly of either of them. Simply that I can't really deem either as for sure mafia.)
EBWOP : Fucked up on the page placement . sorry guys .
Here were my reads and reasoning, I voted for mitt because of the fact that he was written off day one with his own post's; yes admittedly they had more stronger of a case then myself but they were still bad IMO. As the day went on I started seeing the voltin votes going through, but i chose mitt in the end because he was IMO a bad town, he was playing like it and although now it's night one and he's still the same. Save us all the headaches and deal with it like we should of night
SagaZ what do you think about Templar as of now ? Do you agree with his reasoning on pg 18 of why we should vote for mitt? I was assumed to be attempting to fly under the radar with the voltin votes what if i asked you the same thing, do you think you flew under the radar of suspicion, the only one here 100% town is seus, I know we'd all like to develop a town circle but it's always best to stay on your toes don't you think ?
I'd also like to here from the rest of the town on SagaZ and your reads on him.
Expanding my thought's later I'd like to hear the answer's first .
Ok July,
I'm going to change my perspective on this and look at it from yours. You're pushing into this from a point of "Well, I don't have any 100% scum reads, and nothing else has been posted to fully convince me of any. This being the case, I'm going to vote Istand because even if he's town he's just dead weight."
I only understand this off the basis that you don't find anyone else's arguments for lynches worth following. I don't really understand why you would just ignore them then. Why not try to post critisism on them if you questioned their reasoning? Wouldn't that be better for the town anyway?
I moved on from the mitt vote, I have maintained an open thought about him getting his posting together and playing better town.
I'm going to be heading out here for a few hours, but I'd like to leave people with a few thoughts.
playerboy345 has not posted at since the night started. This is highly unusual given his usual times of activity. I'd recommend getting him to talk more, should he ever reappear, and scrutinizing him.
While onlywonderboy hasn't posted much, I don't think he's mafia. His posts are terse, but to the point and insightful. He should, however, speak out more. E00e also needs to talk more.
Basically, if you're town you should be chatting away. Mafia is not an armchair game unless you're a spectator.
On October 17 2013 07:04 GGTeMpLaR wrote: istandwithmitt you seem to be getting at the notion that you think playerboy345 and myself are mafia together.
Who do you think is the 3rd mafia with us and why?
I haven't said that at all.
I also don't know why you would quote a post where I literally call someone out as mafia as being worthless but so vOv
ok, so looks like we have an SK. or potentially a vig. though vig is a quite unlikely imo as I don't see any town vig shooting playerboy N1 save for maybe mitt. mitt, you vig?
@Bereft How do you know it wasn't mafia who killed playerboy? Information bias? (somewhat joking as i haven't ever seen 2 kills in a game so i have no idea if there's a way to tell otherwise and I still peg you as somewhat town, but it's a possible slip, will disregard for now)
Though I agree with your sentiment. I don't see a vig killing either target. I guess we will find out if anybody claims but I think we need to worry about an SK, not that that changes anything. I definitely don't agree with mitt killing playerboy or odin, if he was vig why wouldn't he just shoot ggtemplar who he has been accusing a lot. And for any other townie, why not kill nvrx or july who have been more suspicious than playerboy and odin.
Odin kill seems to point towards both July and nvrx, both people who have been under suspicion and he continued pushing them through the night, but that's only direct and obviously if they were mafia they should have thought about how much suspicion it puts on them. My scum reads on them so far fits them not thinking about it much and just trying to kill. Easily could be mafia trying to put suspicion on them though to push for them, which puts me a bit under the gun.
I just read the mafiascum wiki for C9±±. I believe we are in a TTT setup. 2 goons + mafia role blocker, 1 SK. no godfather. wiki also tells me 50% of setups include an SK. my earlier vig comment was silly.
On October 17 2013 12:13 Bereft wrote: mafia should only have 1 factional night kill.
I just read the mafiascum wiki for C9±±. I believe we are in a TTT setup. 2 goons + mafia role blocker, 1 SK. no godfather. wiki also tells me 50% of setups include an SK. my earlier vig comment was silly.
"any other setup"?? balla are you purposely playing dumb or did you not read the setup description? the only other setup it could be is T, but TTT is more probable considering expected number of T's are 3.5.
On October 17 2013 12:16 Balla24 wrote: and why do you think we're in a TTT setup.. it could easily be any other setup..
It needs to be a setup with a Serial Killer, unless we have a very bad Vigilante at work. The only configurations which match are T, TTT, and TTTTT. But it can't be T because we've already lost two Vanilla Townies, and the presence of a Roleblocker makes TTTTT impossible because we know we have at least one C and one M. That leaves TTT.
So our current setup is TTTMC??. That basically means that in addition to our now deceased 1-shot cop there are one or two more special roles. Either two Masons, two 1-shots of various kinds, or a single Cop/Doctor/whatever.
Of the 10 people left alive, four are anti-town and one is me. So from my perspective half of you who are still alive are scum/a Serial Killer.
Alright, I have no reason not to believe the Bereft roleblock so I'm going to put him in my circle for now. The "slip" is quite interesting, but not one I would think that Bereft would make as a scum as I think he is much better than that.
We should look into E00 more now that playerboy is dead, as it's evident why playerboy was angry with him. Is it possible that E00 was actually trying to get a cop to come out and succeeded? I'm not sure, as I wasn't thinking about that at all.
E00 where are you? Please post thoughts on the night actions and discussion during the night. Can you re-iterate what your thoughts were as playerboy was calling you out for the cop stuff?
On October 14 2013 18:02 E00e wrote: Right now it looks like you are not interested in a real discussion because you continue to make cryptic claims. If there is something obviously bad just say it so I can improve. If there is something bad that you for whatever reason dont want to point out right now then just say it.
This sounds like a post where you are trying to bait out some form of cop-claim when i read your filter.
On October 17 2013 12:27 Bereft wrote: "any other setup"?? balla are you purposely playing dumb or did you not read the setup description? the only other setup it could be is T, but TTT is more probable considering expected number of T's are 3.5.
ah you're right... i was going off memory from last game and forgot that not every setup has a roleblocker... derp.
On October 17 2013 12:16 Balla24 wrote: and why do you think we're in a TTT setup.. it could easily be any other setup..
It needs to be a setup with a Serial Killer, unless we have a very bad Vigilante at work. The only configurations which match are T, TTT, and TTTTT. But it can't be T because we've already lost two Vanilla Townies, and the presence of a Roleblocker makes TTTTT impossible because we know we have at least one C and one M. That leaves TTT.
So our current setup is TTTMC??. That basically means that in addition to our now deceased 1-shot cop there are one or two more special roles. Either two Masons, two 1-shots of various kinds, or a single Cop/Doctor/whatever.
Of the 10 people left alive, four are anti-town and one is me. So from my perspective half of you who are still alive are scum/a Serial Killer.
Whee.
I've found errors in my previous logic. You can have two Vanilla Townies with a T setup. The single T only represents a single T roll, but doesn't mean there's a single Vanilla Townie.
I still think it's far more likely we're in a TTT setup.
It makes it very certain there are four non-town players out there. Whether it's T or TTT, there are 3 Mafia and 1 Serial Killer. That means that if you have 6 players you're absolutely sure are town, the other 4 can't be.
The rest of you have an advantage over me in that you know, for certain, who 2 out of the 6 are. If you can get a read on the other four then everything else should fall into place.
I guess that's helpful, but not really.. as its just how the game works, and irrelevant to whether it's T or TTT.
Seuss i'd prefer you comment on the night kills and what you think they mean. Who would do them and why? What do you think about the E00/playerboy topic? Does your previous scum read on July/SagaZ/nyx (i know some of the reads are weak and also some are possibly non-existant now, but still relevant) fit with the kills (I.E. do you think july would kill odin who was suspicious of him even though it would clearly cast suspicion on him)?
Part of the problem is the mafia could have made either kill. It's more likely they killed Odin, but not impossible they targeted playerboy345.
Now that we know playerboy345 was a 1-shot cop, his overreaction to E00e comes into sharper focus. It didn't occur to me, but that overreaction could have hinted at his role to a more astute observe. It's possible the mafia figured it out and killed him. He also makes a better target than Odin in general, as Odin's prominence made him a more likely target for protection.
The only person who really had a reason to kill playerboy345 otherwise was E00e. He was strangely quiet during the night phase so it's possible, but it's also obvious. We have very little to go off of beyond that if it was the Serial Killer.
Odin is the more likely mafia target because he was a very prominent town. He drove a lot of conversation, though not always in a useful direction. He's also not me. Given that I was the only confirmed town, however town Odin appeared, there was a very high likelihood that a Doctor might interfere with a night kill on me. Odin was a good secondary target.
However, Odin was also an easy Serial Killer target for similar reasons. Odin bumped heads a bit, so there's basically no way for us to find a single thread.
All that said, nyxnyxnyx might have made a next level play. Who'd suspect the guy who blindly followed Odin to murder him!
I surely suspect nyxnyx on Odin, just cause he was blindly following him doesn't mean he's not a threat to him. Odin was pushing him fairly hard before getting killed. Seems like it would be a good target for him, even moreso than you, the confirmed town as you weren't putting him super hard under your radar. Other people who were pushing nyx were me and E00 but maybe Odin seems like a better kill for him because of the "blind following".
SagaZ you had a SK read on istandwithmitt, now that there's more posts from mitt, what do you think about it, now that there is a pretty much confirmed SK?
I will have to time to read and post in ~3 hours. I thought Seuss explained my cop post and I dont understand why you think I tried to out a cop. I literally asked when the cop should come out and did not tell anyone to. I even explicitly stated that I dont want the cop to come out right now then. A discussion about when the cop should come out cannot be a bad thing for town except if we ignore other more important discussion topics to discuss it.
am i wrong in saying that if we make a mistake and vote out a townie this day phase, then that leaves 5 townies and if a further 2 are killed that night, then it's game over?
GG everyone, sorry about not posting, school was taking it's toll on me so I asked Umasi if he could replace/modkill me, seems like it wasn't needed, lol.
That's understandable player boy, school should always come first good luck.
What's our plans as town, we're three town members down with the possibility of an SK, we need to get this day 2 Lynch correct and hit a mafia. Is there a possibility that it's not an SK and it's actually a vigi, at this point I'm not too sure myself but I don't think we should rule out any possibilitys until we're all 100% sure.
I'll be away from my keyboard for most of the day, I just wanted to post some thoughts about the whole vigi / sk topic, I think it's a topic we should talk about but not get completely bogged down on, because isn't a single sk less of a threat then mafia? (correct me if I'm wrong but if there is a chance of an sk or a scared vigi shouldn't we help point them to mafia so we can get two potential mafia gone for night and day 2?)
Well, Odin was town after all. That's good though, means we weren't completely being misled. I just wanted to put pressure there since I had the opportunity to last game and didn't. This of course casts a lot of suspicion on nyx and july if we assume mafia killed him. Almost seems too obvious though. If there is a SK going for Odin would be a good way of drawing heat to the players he was pressuring most.
On October 17 2013 15:45 E00e wrote: I will have to time to read and post in ~3 hours. I thought Seuss explained my cop post and I dont understand why you think I tried to out a cop. I literally asked when the cop should come out and did not tell anyone to. I even explicitly stated that I dont want the cop to come out right now then. A discussion about when the cop should come out cannot be a bad thing for town except if we ignore other more important discussion topics to discuss it.
I don't disagree. You can see from my response to it yesterday. However, situation has changed now that playerboy is dead. Looking forward to your response later.
On October 17 2013 16:59 nyxnyxnyx wrote: am i wrong in saying that if we make a mistake and vote out a townie this day phase, then that leaves 5 townies and if a further 2 are killed that night, then it's game over?
If there's a serial killer it's not necessarily game over, more like "go buy lottery tickets". Townies basically pray at that point that the serial killer both votes with them and kills a mafia N3.
I've done some analysis of the night's kills, and I think it's safe to say that Odin was killed by the Mafia, while playerboy345 was killed by the Serial Killer.
The key to this is the roleblock on Bereft. If you review the previous day's events three people stand out as active, talkative, and inquisitive town players, OdinOfPergo, Bereft, and myself. At first glance I look just as valuable a target as either of them, but that is not the case. I'm the only townie the mafia knows has no special powers. Killing me guarantees that they don't kill a power role. Given how often I repeated my assumption that I wouldn't live another day, it's also likely they feared potential intervention from a doctor.
So the strongest play for the mafia in this situation was to roleblock one of the remaining two and kill the other. The rest is history. Odin is dead, Bereft is outed as a power role, and the serial killer happily offed a cop.
Based on this analysis I believe I have a fairly good read on who is town, who is mafia, and who is the serial killer.
Bereft is clearly town, and one with a power role. Unfortunately, Bereft is a priority kill for the mafia now.
istandwithmitt is also clearly town. I understand GGTeMpLaR's reservations, but I still believe his day 1 play was too erratic and attention-grabbing for him to be anything other than town. As a bonus, he's actually done pretty well since.
July617 is another town. He voted for istandwithmitt just as Bereft and I started pushing to vote for Vonthin. This seemed like a scummy play attempting to deflect votes from Vonthin at the time. If July617 was mafia there'd be no reason for him to draw that kind of attention to himself.
GGTeMpLaR is also town for similar reasons. He was heavily against the Vonthin vote, and in general posts far more and with far less care than makes sense for a mafia.
onlywonderboy is our penultimate town. While he hasn't posted as much as I'd like, every single one of his posts has been on point, succinct, and helpful.
Obviously, I'm the final town. If you think I'm really scum you should run into your panic room and put on a tinfoil hat because Big Brother is watching you.
By basic process of elimination, that means SagaZ, Balla24, nyxnyxnyx, and E00e are scum and/or the serial killer.
Balla24 has been seen actively questioning Bereft's credentials, while defending SagaZ, and going after playerboy for his pressure on E00e. He's claimed that July was being "careful" with his vote, when voting for istandwithmitt at that point was the opposite of careful. He also uses the OdinOfPergo kill to cast suspicion on both July and nyxnyxnyx, who (if I'm correct) aren't mafia.
SagaZ has actively been sucking up to the one and only confirmed town, and has generally voted safely. He voted istandwithmitt when it was still in vogue, voted for July617 after I called for it, and voted Vonthin after it was requested. This made his vote record safe. However, he's been on the nyxnyxnyx train with Balla24, and questioned playerboy's fervor in defense of E00e. His suggestion that we look for mafia in the Vonthin vote seems reasonable, except the only mafia in there is him.
E00e has one of the lightest post records in the game. His accomplishments so far include the cop claim debacle, voting for nyxnyxnyx (seeing a pattern here?), and nothing else.
nyxnyxnyx is obviously the Serial Killer. It doesn't make sense for Balla24 and SagaZ to have been going after him unless they thought he was town. But he isn't town, and isn't mafia, which leaves only one possibility. His posting record is also rivaled only by E00e in terms of usefulness. Who'd suspect the sheep was really a wolf?
Normally I'd suggest we start by lynching nyxnyxnyx, but as he's also been the target of the scum we're better off starting with Balla24 or SagaZ, otherwise it's too easy for them to skate by. So long as we lynch the Serial Killer tomorrow we should still be able to win.
I told you why i'm so weary with Bereft. This guy is good, he was good last game too. This is why I have to look at him so carefully. I know he's town now and I already said that, the role block confirms him. It's obvious that mafia thinks Bereft is a power role, but he might not be and they certainly don't know for sure. You shouldn't have called that out.
On E00e. I was the first one to call him out on the "cop claim debacle" after playerboy's death. If you think he's scum then I'm not scum with him and vice versa. If it wasn't for him, playerboy might not have gotten shot last night (I do have some part to play in this, but by the time i got back I think the damage was already done) and we might have a check.
I did not claim july was being careful. You're twisting my words. I was talking about it from the point of view of July being scum, he might not be willing to take a risk that would put him under suspicion on the vote, especially if he felt confident Vonthin was going to get lynched anyways (with two town leaders pushing for him).
On odinofpergo kill. Anybody would draw that conclusion. Onlywonderboy did even. I even said that it could be a kill to draw suspicion on them, leaving that as an option.
Also, how was GGTemplar "heavily against" the Vonthin vote. I don't see that at all, could you quote me some posts from his filter where you get that impression.
I do agree with the nyxnyx as SK though. It seems really obvious now.
I would put onlywonderboy in a circle with me you bereft. I get a good feeling from him. He's playing very similarly to last game where he got lynched for it. Bereft might not be willing to let him slide for it again but I am. I think he would change a bit if he was scum. I would also put istandwithmitt in there quite tentatively because of his early play.
Everybody else I'm weary of. SagaZ has been terribly inactive recently which kind of changes my opinion of him from Day1. July's posting is quite useless as town, IMO which makes me uneasy and I agree with istandwithmitt on ggtemplar.
Why are you putting blame on me for playerboy's death. I still see nothing inherently wrong with my post and if there is anyone to blame for mafia thinking playerboy is cop and killing him it is himself. I dont want to discuss this anymore but you keep bringing it up Balla24.Before playerboy died you took my side and after his death you switched. I am not sure why you say that only one of us, me or you, can be mafia. I am not sure if you honestly try to investigate if I am scum or looking to lynch a town that might not be able to defend themself well being scum yourself.
I voted for nyx because this was the only person I really had a bad feeling about. If you agree with Seuss that was at least somewhat correct, even though I thought of nyx as mafia since I did not take a Serial Killer into account.
I liked Odin and think he was killed by Mafia because playerboy was more of a controversial player and had a higher chance of being shot by a vigilante or being lynched.
Seuss you said you are somewhat certain that there are 4 non-town players out there but you list only 3 people in your last post as non town.
Somebody suggested I had reasons to kill playerboy. I dont know if that implied that I am mafia or vigi but Im not Mafia (which anyone would say) and as a Vigi I would not kill playerboy because I did not think he was Mafia. Of course I disliked him on a personal basis but that is not enough reason to kill him.
It is not technically your fault. Playerboy should not have reacted the way he did. There's no way around that.
I don't see how you think this is insignificant though... I like how you are reacting but then again you should be willing to talk about it if you have nothing to hide. I don't have any further questions about it though. So I on't be pushing it further unless it becomes relevant again.
There is no vigi. Vigi is a straight up idiot if he shot either odin or playerboy.
You're under suspicion on playerboy because of the sole fact that you are the one who brought up the cop thing. You're right though, I should take a step back. ANYBODY who realized playerboy was cop based on his reaction could have killed him.
I think if we agree that Nyx is the SK and we find a Mafia, we should lynch the SK later and the Mafia first because he might randomly kill a Mafia at night. Is that correct?
I think whoever we have the best read on by the end of the day we lynch, regardless of whether or not we think it's SK or Mafia. Either one is beneficial for us. If we leave SK alive, there's still 2KP out there and it's possible we lose another two townies (and even possible blues) but then we have to find 3 mafia. SK would likely try to target a mafia that night but do we really want to trust his reads over a collective town?
This is my first SK scenario, so i'm just theorycrafting here. I think it's better to do our best to make sure we don't get an innocent townie lynched over worrying about killing SK versus Mafia.
EBWOP: If we leave SK alive, there's still 2KP out there and it's possible we lose another two townies (and even possible blues) but then we have to find 3 mafia if we killed him.
On October 18 2013 02:29 Balla24 wrote: I told you why i'm so weary with Bereft. This guy is good, he was good last game too. This is why I have to look at him so carefully. I know he's town now and I already said that, the role block confirms him. It's obvious that mafia thinks Bereft is a power role, but he might not be and they certainly don't know for sure. You shouldn't have called that out.
On E00e. I was the first one to call him out on the "cop claim debacle" after playerboy's death. If you think he's scum then I'm not scum with him and vice versa. If it wasn't for him, playerboy might not have gotten shot last night (I do have some part to play in this, but by the time i got back I think the damage was already done) and we might have a check.
I did not claim july was being careful. You're twisting my words. I was talking about it from the point of view of July being scum, he might not be willing to take a risk that would put him under suspicion on the vote, especially if he felt confident Vonthin was going to get lynched anyways (with two town leaders pushing for him).
On odinofpergo kill. Anybody would draw that conclusion. Onlywonderboy did even. I even said that it could be a kill to draw suspicion on them, leaving that as an option.
Also, how was GGTemplar "heavily against" the Vonthin vote. I don't see that at all, could you quote me some posts from his filter where you get that impression.
Based on the wiki I was working under the bad assumption that you only learn you've been roleblocked if you have a role to block. Apparently that's incorrect and you learn you've been roleblocked regardless. So I may be wrong about Bereft having a power role, as I assumed the roleblock meant they had one.
Pressuring E00e on his kerfuffle with playerboy345 is a weak line of attack with an easy defense (as you both just demonstrated while I was in the middle of writing this). It's effortless for E00e to just say, "playerboy345's the one who overreacted" and his defense is basically complete. In fact, you did it for him. You're not really applying pressure when you're answering your own questions to your satisfaction.
On October 16 2013 23:03 Bereft wrote: @Balla - that was purely a timing/availability issue. If I'm home and have time to sit down and write something I will, regardless of day/night phase. might not be the best strategy, but what can you do, time constraints yo. I'm out tonight so not sure if I'll make it home before the night post - but if I do I'll write something.
that being said, what exactly "seems a little different" about my posting this time around? can you expand please? why such a strong read on Sagaz?
my general gut feeling is that only 1 out of the 6 votes on Vonthin is mafia. I would lean towards playerboy i from this subset. no read on OWB yet - as per last game he has been super quiet. OWB please don't go down that same path again... all just because you played the same way as town doesn't mean you'll get a free pass this time around.
on a phone at work right now... I'll post more thoroughly tonight ><
I think I'm quieter this game than last one but that's due to irl responsibilities. Last time I just dug myself a grave by getting super defensive and doing a poor job of explaining myself. As for my vote I was clear upfront I was putting a lot of weight into Suess' analysis since I know he's town and a really smart guy.
I agree nyx has a lot of explaining to do. I realize he wanted to follow Odin, but the contradiction of not thinking mitt is mafia but still voting him anyway feels very scummy.
Honestly the only person I have a strong read on right now is Odin (town). The initial bandwagon on mitt and changing votes from there was a bit of a clusterfuck so getting a read on these events hasn't been easy.
Apparently I'm not smart enough, given the day's outcome.
Why don't you think July is town? It's not impossible for him to be mafia, but it seems highly unlikely given that he had no reason to vote istandwithmitt over Vonthin.
It could easily be him being careful with his vote so that nobody would be suspicious of it. Again though, I don't think July is mafia, but you shouldn't clear your suspicion of him just because he didn't switch his vote. Especially no reason to switch since it was clear that Vonthin was going to get lynched anyways. Hell, I did that last game as scum, if you aren't the deciding vote there is no reason to switch.
Note the use of the very word "careful". In fact, "might not be willing to take a risk" means practically the same thing as careful. SagaZ was careful, while he voted for istandwithmitt he made it very clear he was willing to change his vote. July617 wasn't careful, he voted for istandwithmitt expressly against and expressly disagreeing with the decision to lynch Vonthin.
I brought up the OdinOfPergo kill speculation because this is a game of straws. You're rarely going to have one big slip-up to identify scum, it's about patterns. Taken by themselves any one of these things is innocuous, but taken together they paint a picture.
Finally, here are the GGTeMpLaR quotes you requested:
On October 15 2013 11:29 Bereft wrote: also lawl, adding July to that list, just read his post above. July, please give us some reads within the next 12 hours -- that should be enough time for you to "safely and calmly" get your reads together.
We don't actually need every last poster giving a full list of reads. In fact, it's a fairly decent way for mafia members to look productive without actually contributing anything useful.
The thread is also drawing very quiet, which is good news for the mafia, so I'm going to incite some discussion.
At this point I believe istandwithmitt is just an absolutely terrible player/communicator. He's confrontational, dogmatic, egotistical, and generally a pain in the butt, but he's drawn way, way more negative attention to himself than makes sense for mafia. Bereft is right that we should be focusing on finding other targets right now.
To that end, I believe the two most likely mafia players are SagaZ and July617. I'll present each case in turn.
While he was the first player to post following the start of the game, he's been a sparse participant since. His first post immediately drew suspicion for a number of reasons.
1. Despite its word count it's actually very light on content. 2. The actual suggestions contained within are highly questionable.
Observe:
On October 14 2013 11:26 SagaZ wrote: As a disclaimer early, I think we should all agree on something. We are all newbies here, so if you fuck up or say something dumb, don't play the "oh sorry, I am new I didn't know". [/color]
[color=green]Seuss is our confirmed town, we should try to organize around him. For a day 1 lynch, I think lynching some1 innactive is the best way to go.[/color] Having innactive players around just give mafia the opportunity to sit back and do nothing while town runs around screaming at each other. So give information about yourself if you can, so that others will be able to read you easy.
My stance this early is easy: I will vote for people that post nothing worthy or nothing at all, unless some1 slips. I am also more likely to vote for people that say suspicious stuff and then say "sorry I didn't know I am new"
SagaZ spends both the first and last paragraphs primarily rambling about how people shouldn't play the newbie card. If all he really wanted to do was encourage newbies to post, as he later claimed, he could easily have done so with a far more positive tone. He doesn't sound like he's encouraging newbies as much as discouraging them.
While he does make two seemingly reasonable suggestions, they are obvious and ultimately counter-productive. As the sole confirmed townie in the game, my lifespan is likely to be short. Rallying around me exclusively would simply set the town up for trouble upon my inevitable death. Similarly, lynching players who'll simply be modkilled does nothing for the town either.
So SagaZ' first post discouraged activity and made no useful suggestions. That's enough to arouse suspicion, but not to conclude he is mafia.
That brings us to his second post:
On October 14 2013 20:11 SagaZ wrote: Of course I meant lurker lynch, afkers will get modkilled after all. If one guy is not saying anything in the thread or very little, but still turn out to vote for people without giving reasoning... that would be very scum telling to me. I guess it is fairly obvious to everyone, but pointing it out will make them talk whether they want it or not, and that gives information. I took the opportunity of the first post to basically say "game started, don't hide behind your inexperience and post".
For town to win we need 2 thing: - Get everyone active - Organize around our confirmed towny Seuss
@nyxnyxnyx: Care to explain why you trust Odin? Him being so hyper posty makes me nervous but he actually present points for us to discuss on, which creates discussion and is therefore good for town. It is weird to me at least that you come in, decide to side with odin even thought we have a confirmed townie.
In this post he claims he meant "lurker" when he said "inactive". However, in his first post he clearly stated that his potential vote targets included those who posted "nothing at all". SagaZ is backpedaling here, and making it seem reasonable by repeating the reasoning that undermined his previous position. He also very carefully drops his excuse for the weird newbie-discouraging rambling at the end of an unrelated paragraph, burying it.
"Getting everyone active" is an important step for towns looking to win, but SagaZ doesn't actually have any suggestions on how to do that, and doesn't participate enough himself. He again says everyone should organize around me, also without suggesting how or acknowledging the obvious flaw in the strategy (e.g. I'm a dead man walking).
Finally, he ends the post promoting discord. While nyxnyxnyx' decision to trust Odin could have used some additional vetting, at that point Odin was at the nexus of a fairly chaotic argument, and rallying behind his "let's randomly pick someone and put them in the hotseat to get information flowing" idea would have killed a lot of the useless chatter while promoting helpful discussion. Questioning nyxnyxnyx at this point only served to perpetuate the pointless debate, and promote distrust.
SagaZ third post was entirely inconsequential, and above analysis. His fourth post at least pretended to have substance:
On October 15 2013 05:02 SagaZ wrote: First impressions: going into this I was feeling most uncomfortable with nyxnyxnyx, blindly following some1 sounds like a pretty bad idea for a town, and especially stating it in the thread sounds more to me like he was trying to get onto OdinOfPergo's good side. And the I read istandwithmitt's post and I'm like wtf. He voted for me at the beginning and I thought it was alright, aggressive play-style pointing fingers early to get some heat and get the discussion going, but then instead of making use of it he just go silent. And now this switcharoo vote with no explanation and abrasive behavior?
There are a lot of words in this post, but it essentially says nothing. The entire latter half is a rehash of what everyone else had already said about istandwithmitt. The former half mostly repeats his previous misgivings about nyxnyxnyx' decision, adding an extra touch of distrust of both nyx and Odin. No progress towards anything happens over the course of these paragraphs.
Finally, there's SagaZ latest post:
On October 15 2013 05:20 SagaZ wrote: I'd like to hear what playerboy345 has to say to Istandwithmitt's accusations; just complete the weird triangle between them 2 and E00e.
At this point debating with istandwithmitt was utterly pointless, whoever was doing it. I had said as much earlier. Promoting a useless discussion is never helpful to the town.
It is for these reasons that I believe SagaZ has a very high probability of being mafia, and is worthy of a lynching.
The only useful contribution he's made was his response to Odin's confusing RNG plan. At the time Odin's confusing manner of communicating made it seem like the plan was to randomly select someone, lynch them, and call it a day. That ultimately wasn't what Odin was aiming for, but at the time it seemed that way and if July hadn't responded as he did someone else would have.
Which brings us to his other 5 posts. They all say essentially the same thing, "I don't want to lynch anyone yet, let's wait and talk more." If everyone was jumping to conclusions in the first four hours istandwithmitt style that might have been fine, but with practically half our time spent he's still waiting for a sign from God (or is it the Godfather?).
The only player who has contributed less is Balla24, who hasn't posted at all.
Keeping his head this low, and trying to keep people deferring the lynching decision as long as possible, makes it a high probability that July617 is mafia.
Until such time as either or both of these individuals has a convincing defense established, it's my preference that we lynch one of them over istandwithmitt, much as it pains me.
While I respect and relate to your judgment of istandwithmitt, I think if there's ever a day where we can afford to lynch the weakest town instead of a mafia, it's day 1. If he's mafia at this point, then all is well. If he's town, then I think it's better we get rid of him now rather than let him end up in the final 3 and remain a target of suspicion - in addition to the possibility that his seemingly arbitrary reads could end up being the final deciding vote on who is mafia or not.
On October 16 2013 08:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote: If the majority really wants to lynch Vonthin over istandwithmitt, I can't really stop it.
I still think istandwithmitt is the better lynch for today though as he is just going to be dead-weight unless he drastically changes his play.
On October 18 2013 03:00 E00e wrote: Seuss you said you are somewhat certain that there are 4 non-town players out there but you list only 3 people in your last post as non town.
There are three mafia and one serial killer. That's four.
Whoops, totally missed my post where I said careful, but still i think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.
Yes, SagaZ was clearly being careful with his vote. July could have possibly been being careful with his vote AS SCUM by not switching to Vonthin when he knew Vonthin was town, disagreeing with the vote to kill vonthin just makes his position set and thus even more careful. If he's town, he's not being careful I agree, but I just think you're not seeing the angle I'm seeing.
As far as the weak E00e attack... yeah it might be weak, but at least it's something. I'm glad you can see the future and play out all the situations in your head beforehand. And even if you see an easy defense, it's possible that player doesn't see it. Always good to apply pressure, however weak.
On October 17 2013 13:17 Seuss wrote: All that said, nyxnyxnyx might have made a next level play. Who'd suspect the guy who blindly followed Odin to murder him!
I want to think that this isn't the case because it just seems like it's too risky a play to make, but I'm not certain.
In light of the night's kills of confirmed town, my thoughts of OdinOfPergo being in mafia connections with nyxnyxnyx make little sense, however I still think it's possible that nyxnyxnyx was trying to buddy up to him. However, when OdinOfPergo made it clear he wasn't going to be easily pocketed and targeted suspicion on nyxnyxnyx, he could have become more of a liability than an asset. At this point, I think there is a lot of suspicion on nyxnyxnyx, and rightly so. However, I wouldn't immediately write him off as a SK without looking at his connections and reads, especially in the early game.
Early on in the first 6 pages, nyxnyxnyx was the target of suspicion from SagaZ. He was defended by Seuss, our confirmed town. Further, nyxnyxnyx jumped onto the train to vote istandwithmitt, even though he noted he didn't think istandwithmitt was mafia.
When Bereft questioned his vote here, he buddy'd up to OdinOfPergo, which resulted in a quick vote on nyxnyxnyx from Vonthin. nyxnyxnyx immediately responded by swapping his vote onto Vonthin. E00e responded by voting on nyxnyxnyx and placed secondary scum reads on onlywonderboy as well. (I think it wouldn't be too far out there if when a mafia pinged two people like this early on, the hard ping would go on a town and the soft ping on a mafia, noting a possible E00e-onlywonderboy connection).
A page later SagaZ chimes in that he thinks both nyxnyxnyx and Vonthin both appear scummy, in addition to elaborating on a detailed "serial killer theory" targeted at istandwithmitt. (which actually makes me want to think SagaZ a likely candidate for Serial Killer, although analyzing his connections would be important before we go down that road similar to what I am trying to do with nyxnyxnyx right now).
On page 18, we see activity from Balla24 rejecting a vote on July617/Vonthin and targeting nyxnyxnyx instead - and Seuss pinged this action for lacking in detail (given that we know Vonthin is town now, this could indicate a Balla24/July617 connection).
nyxnyxnyx posts again on page 19 after a long silence:
On October 16 2013 10:32 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Keep vote on Vonthin, we're voting againt each other. If he flips mafia you can work with that info, if he's town I'll have to make a new case for myself
OdinOfPergo pings him as suspicious (noting that it's possible this is where he believed OdinOfPergo was becoming a liability who couldn't be pocketed or buddy'd up to).
And page 20, we get this gem of either extremely poor town play, or suspicious behavior:
On October 16 2013 23:06 nyxnyxnyx wrote: 1. i wanted to go with whatever odin was going for. i have explained why in previous post. that was istandwithmitt 2. i put up the vote since i was gona sleep in a bit (vote would close at ~10am next morning, might not wake up before then) 3. people complained about my blind voting because i expressed that i personally did not think istandwithmitt was mafia (and i still think so). vonthin changed his vote to me on that feeling, and i thought well fuck you im voting you bitch 4. that is all
Further pings against nyxnyxnyx are made by SagaZ/OdinOfPero/Balla24/Seuss on page 20.
And with that, I'm going to summarize my thoughts so far because I think unless you think nyxnyxnyx is mafia with myself (who pinged him early on, then backed off and grew more suspicious of everyone else going so hard on him), he probably isn't mafia. It's possible one of the people going hard on him in this look-back is his mafia partner bus-ing him, but I think it's much more likely at this point that either he's acting alone as a Serial Killer or a misguided/unlucky town.
These are my comprehensive thoughts on nyxnyxnyx. More coming soon.
On October 18 2013 03:14 Balla24 wrote: It is not technically your fault. Playerboy should not have reacted the way he did. There's no way around that.
I don't see how you think this is insignificant though... I like how you are reacting but then again you should be willing to talk about it if you have nothing to hide. I don't have any further questions about it though. So I on't be pushing it further unless it becomes relevant again.
There is no vigi. Vigi is a straight up idiot if he shot either odin or playerboy.
You're under suspicion on playerboy because of the sole fact that you are the one who brought up the cop thing. You're right though, I should take a step back. ANYBODY who realized playerboy was cop based on his reaction could have killed him.
How do we know there's no vig? I'm rereading the role and it says they "may" choose a player to kill, it's possible they just didn't use their power.
On October 18 2013 03:14 Balla24 wrote: It is not technically your fault. Playerboy should not have reacted the way he did. There's no way around that.
I don't see how you think this is insignificant though... I like how you are reacting but then again you should be willing to talk about it if you have nothing to hide. I don't have any further questions about it though. So I on't be pushing it further unless it becomes relevant again.
There is no vigi. Vigi is a straight up idiot if he shot either odin or playerboy.
You're under suspicion on playerboy because of the sole fact that you are the one who brought up the cop thing. You're right though, I should take a step back. ANYBODY who realized playerboy was cop based on his reaction could have killed him.
How do we know there's no vig? I'm rereading the role and it says they "may" choose a player to kill, it's possible they just didn't use their power.
yeah you're right.. i didn't mean it in that way, i just wanted to deflect the thought that either of the kills could have been made by a vigi
Bereft is clearly town, and one with a power role. Unfortunately, Bereft is a priority kill for the mafia now.
istandwithmitt is also clearly town. I understand GGTeMpLaR's reservations, but I still believe his day 1 play was too erratic and attention-grabbing for him to be anything other than town. As a bonus, he's actually done pretty well since.
July617 is another town. He voted for istandwithmitt just as Bereft and I started pushing to vote for Vonthin. This seemed like a scummy play attempting to deflect votes from Vonthin at the time. If July617 was mafia there'd be no reason for him to draw that kind of attention to himself.
onlywonderboy is our penultimate town. While he hasn't posted as much as I'd like, every single one of his posts has been on point, succinct, and helpful.
Obviously, I'm the final town. If you think I'm really scum you should run into your panic room and put on a tinfoil hat because Big Brother is watching you.
I think the only individual on this list I'm fully sold on at this point is Bereft. Even though I was growing suspicious of him at the end of Day 1 and it's possible he is scum who just faked getting Roleblock'd, the odds are not worth considering at this point when there's much better lynches and it's much more likely that he's a town at this point.
I'm not fully sold on istandwithmitt as town. I think it's likely if he was mafia, given how poorly he was playing, his mafia would have been more than willing to throw him under the bus at that point. There's a slight possibility of him as a Serial Killer at this point, but I'd say nyxnyxnyx is a much more likely choice.
That being said, I've liked July617 and onlywonderboy as probable town the entire game - granted the lack of quantity of their posting and reads makes me skeptical to consider them hard town reads.
Regarding onlywonderboy, I noted in my previous post a possible weak connection between onlywonderboy and E00e. Now, Balla24's most recent post throws himself and onlywonderboy together in a town circle with you, which creates a Balla24-onlywonderboy connection:
On October 18 2013 02:42 Balla24 wrote: I would put onlywonderboy in a circle with me you bereft. I get a good feeling from him. He's playing very similarly to last game where he got lynched for it. Bereft might not be willing to let him slide for it again but I am. I think he would change a bit if he was scum.
At this point, it's worth going back to the early game and looking for any Balla24-onlywonderboy interactions or lack-there-of. They don't interact at all until page 20 where Balla24 calls onlywonderboy quiet and they don't give any reads on each other.
Balla24 then directly asks onlywonderboy of his thoughts on E00e/playerboy345 and onlywonderboy responds by placing heavy suspicion on playerboy345:
On October 17 2013 02:56 onlywonderboy wrote: playerboy definitely seemed to overreact to that whole situation. Much like you I didn't read e00s post as a soft claim. I want to hear playerboy's reasoning as to why he read it as a soft claim. Simply bringing up a role doesn't mean you're soft claiming it. playerboy also seems to be lurking more than he did last game. Last game despite being mafia he was one of the first people to speak up and was active making a lot of people believe he was town (much like Odin this game). Something to explore but a little early to be making scum claims
Also, speaking of odin, I want to be careful we don't fall into the same trap we did last game. I was suspicious of playerboy early last game but sat on it because I didn't want to make enemies. I don't want to make the same mistake again. He's pushing july and nyx hard, which look goods on paper, but if either of them end up turning town if we lynch them, I think that looks bad for odin.
I think if there is a E00e/onlywonderboy/Balla24 mafia circle at this point, this post says a lot. He would clearly know July617 and nyxnyxnyx are town at this point and that if one of them flips town, him having said this could be used as an argument against playerboy345 in the next round. If nyxnyxnyx actually is the serial killer, he would still read him as town this game and nyxnyxnyx killing playerboy345 could have unintentionally thwarted his next-day preparations for suspicion on playerboy345.
For the rest of Day 1, onlywonderboy and Balla24 don't touch each other. At this point, going back and looking for more connections between E00e-onlywonderboy and E00e-Balla24 could provide useful information that could either affirm or deny my suspicions of this trio as a likely mafia circle.
Granted, I still need to analyze SagaZ and July617 as well at this point. To be continued.
Oh and I missed this gem which is extremely relevant to my latest E00e/Balla24/onlywonderboy post.
On October 18 2013 02:29 Balla24 wrote: On E00e. I was the first one to call him out on the "cop claim debacle" after playerboy's death. If you think he's scum then I'm not scum with him and vice versa. If it wasn't for him, playerboy might not have gotten shot last night (I do have some part to play in this, but by the time i got back I think the damage was already done) and we might have a check.
On second thought, this might not be as strike as I thought. It could be Balla24/E00e bussing each other hard at the end of page 24 but it could also be likely they they are in fact not mafia together and it's merely only one of them.
I didn't have any reason to interact with OWB... and I was afk for most of day1... so there's also that. When I got back, there was very little reason to. He wasn't relevant, under the radar with his lurker style.
I did forget to put him in my post about people i've played with before so yeah... fwiw i shared my info on him later.
@GGTemplar Thats not fair to me. I explicitly say that I dont want to discuss the cop thing again and i question Balla for saying that only one of us two could be mafia.
On October 18 2013 07:29 E00e wrote: @GGTemplar Thats not fair to me. I explicitly say that I dont want to discuss the cop thing again and i question Balla for saying that only one of us two could be mafia.
I'm not condemning you as mafia right now. You're just in one of the mafia circles I've come up with as a possibility. Once I get around to including analysis of July617's and SagaZ's early game play, I'll likely have two or three mafia circles to work with with hopefully a possible overlap as being the most safe lynch for the day.
In all fairness though, you questioning Balla24 for saying that doesn't exactly clear you both from being mafia together.
On October 18 2013 03:14 Balla24 wrote: It is not technically your fault. Playerboy should not have reacted the way he did. There's no way around that.
I don't see how you think this is insignificant though... I like how you are reacting but then again you should be willing to talk about it if you have nothing to hide. I don't have any further questions about it though. So I on't be pushing it further unless it becomes relevant again.
There is no vigi. Vigi is a straight up idiot if he shot either odin or playerboy.
You're under suspicion on playerboy because of the sole fact that you are the one who brought up the cop thing. You're right though, I should take a step back. ANYBODY who realized playerboy was cop based on his reaction could have killed him.
How do we know there's no vig? I'm rereading the role and it says they "may" choose a player to kill, it's possible they just didn't use their power.
yeah you're right.. i didn't mean it in that way, i just wanted to deflect the thought that either of the kills could have been made by a vigi
Ah okay, just misunderstood. The C++ set up still confuses me so I thought maybe it was possible to know for sure there was no vig in the game.
Early on, I was suspicious of both July617 and SagaZ. Here's a summarized catalog of interactions involving them and unconfirmed town in the early-game in light of our confirmed town deaths. Adding this prelude after the fact, I'm much less confident in this information as I'm largely unsure of where to draw the dots compared to the information presented in my other mafia circle which seemed much more clearly connected.
pg 8 istandwithmitt instantly jumped on Sagaz after his post. Given istandwithmitt's wildcard play this game, what he did here could mean anything.
July617 jumped onto istandwithmitt for his play. Maybe be defending SagaZ here, maybe not.
Then a series of RNG arguments I still have trouble understanding due to formatting so I will move past them.
pg 10 E00e says it isn't reasonable to immediately vote for Sagaz (which is actually a fair point), then proceeds to say he likes my giving thoughts (which I find a little off because my initial thoughts were pretty stupid as player345 and Bereft eventually pointed out).
On October 14 2013 17:19 E00e wrote: Hello everyone, my first post!
I think the discussion about a semi random lynch or an afk lynch was somewhat pointless because the day is still early and we might find something else to lynch on. In the rare (?) case that we dont get any information we can argue about that again. On that topic I dont think it is reasonable to immediately vote for SagaZ (who suggested afk lynch first) like istandwithmitt did.
I like that GGTeMpLaR started giving thoughts about the players in this game, because ultimately we need to do that to find our lynch target.
Something else we could and maybe should discuss is when the Cop should come out. Should they come out after checking X Mafia or Y Town or when they are about to be lynched, etc... We dont need to do that on the first day and I dont want to sidetrack the discussion but it is something to keep in mind for the next day or if we run out of things to talk about.
I dont think anyone is sidetracked, I just think we need to talk more so we can get idea's of the active players and a direction in which to go towards . Preferably a sane one.
Doesn't really mean much, it's just fluff.
player345 explodes on E00e. July617 interjects to calm player345/E00e exchange down. SagaZ elaborates more on his initial post with some possible extrapolation.
pg 13 istandwithmitt switches off SagaZ onto playerboy345 without reason. Unsure what to make of this wildcard play still. onlywonderboy comments on his bad play but notes it could be bad town or bad mafia. Can't make anything of this.
Next page istandwithmitt elaborates he thinks playerboy345 is scummier than SagaZ without reason. SagaZ makes a vague post questioning istandwithmitt's play that almost feels suspiciously forced
On October 15 2013 05:02 SagaZ wrote: First impressions: going into this I was feeling most uncomfortable with nyxnyxnyx, blindly following some1 sounds like a pretty bad idea for a town, and especially stating it in the thread sounds more to me like he was trying to get onto OdinOfPergo's good side. And the I read istandwithmitt's post and I'm like wtf. He voted for me at the beginning and I thought it was alright, aggressive play-style pointing fingers early to get some heat and get the discussion going, but then instead of making use of it he just go silent. And now this switcharoo vote with no explanation and abrasive behavior?
SagaZ further hypothesizes a "weird triangle" between playerboy345/istandwithmitt/E00e. (?)
July617 town reads OdinOfPergo, says this as well ?
On October 15 2013 07:39 July617 wrote: like i said again in a previous post we should be talking more but like E00e said we'll have a hard time finding mafia without actual evidence to back it up . So i've really got nothing so far. I'm just trying to read everyone safely and calmly.
Next page, July617 takes an indecisive stance on SagaZ
On October 15 2013 18:11 July617 wrote: @seuss I'll give you that , my past five posts over and over again have been the pretty much the same thing, only because I really don't have an idea of who I should focus my attention to. Yes istandwithmitt is an easy lynch because of how he's acting but I believe there are better lynches out there. As to who ? I'm not so sure, I wish i could say SagaZ but he could just be playing bad town . And Whether it is bad town play or he's secretly mafia, I can't lean to either side without an explanation from him .
SagaZ very suspicious of nyxnyxnyx. When Seuss pings July617, he wants you to include Vonthin along with July617. Agrees with istandwithmitt on playerboy345 as #1 mafia, deflects off of E00e. #2 mafia read at this point is onlywonderboy.
onlywonderboy leans towards July617 as mafia, doesn't want to lynch istandwithmitt (thinks he is just a poor town - common opinion).
SagaZ pings istandwithmitt as a Serial Killer or 70% mafia. Says Vonthin is at least defending himself unlike July617 who still hasn't said shit. July617 joins on the istandwithmitt bandwagon. SagaZ elaborates his disapproval of playerboy345's stance on E00e.
SagaZ then switches his vote from istandwithmitt to July617 and defends Vonthin. July617 offers a somewhat fluffy emotional defense:
On October 16 2013 07:14 July617 wrote: Seus, I have nothing left to give you, Im bashing my head on the desk trying to figure out what I can do to make you see that I am town . I explained my vote on mitt and yet you still seem to believe i'm mafia, even going as far as saying you'd bet your "virtual life" on it . I don't know what to say, I've tried explaining myself but you just continue to call it useless and meaningless, if that's how you see it then so be it . I have nothing else to say to you because It seems like your stuck on this tirade of me being mafia, you asked me for my opinion and i gave it to you .
Yeah I jumped on the bandwagon, because at this point mitt is no use to us as a town player, he continues to write even less then myself and he doesn't seem to care anymore, why are we keeping him around then? You're saying he's contributed more than me ? I'm doing what you asked me to do in your previous post, I gave my opinion and now i'm getting attacked again by you for the one thing you wanted me to do .
pg 18 Balla24 directs off of Vonthin/July617 onto nyxnyxnyx. However, he then goes on to question Seuss why July617/Vonthin can't be mafia together. SagaZ switches his vote to Vonthin without much reasoning at all. Very suspicious of SagaZ/July617 connection at this point, most solid lead so far to suggest they are together.
With regards to July617, there may be something between July617 and E00e. Aside from their early interaction which was nothing but fluff, they didn't interact for the rest of the day besides when July617 agrees with E00e. However, there isn't much to go off of so it's somewhat weak.
The more likely scenario from this information is a July617-SagaZ connection. There are a lot of "weak" points that cumulatively add up to support this possibility. First, July617's entry into the thread is defending SagaZ from istandwithmitt. Later, the quoted July617 post on SagaZ is a 100% tentative read on SagaZ. Next, when Seuss pings July617 as a likely mafia candidate, SagaZ suggests that he should include Vonthin as well for acting no different than July617.
Now this is where it gets tricky - SagaZ likes how Vonthin is trying to defend himself and dislikes how July617 isn't even trying to defend himself, so SagaZ switches his vote from istandwithmitt to July617. When July617 makes his large post which is mostly an appeal to emotion with little to no substance what-so-ever, SagaZ switches his vote from July617 to Vonthin with little to no reason why. This is the biggest reason I think that SagaZ/July617 might be mafia together.
That being said, who could the 3rd mafia in this relationship be? Well, it's really weak from Day 1 data, but I think E00e is the most likely third party. Note that I haven't gone into great detail comparing these patterns from Day 1 with information from Day 2 like I did with my first mafia circle.
That being said, I am much less confident in my mafia circle of SagaZ/July617/E00e than I am of my mafia circle of E00e/onlywonderboy/Balla24.
I think it's time for some other people to contribute and give some thoughts on my ideas so I can get a better idea of where I ultimately stand for the upcoming vote.
On October 17 2013 12:15 Bereft wrote: my gut reaction is mafia killed Odin and SK killed playerboy. but I need to go to bed so I'll read their filters tomorrow...
so to expand on my gut reaction from last night, i still believe odin was the mafia hit and playerboy was the SK hit. odin was a far more aggressive and active townie than playerboy, and had less doubt cast upon his actions than did playerboy. the only way mafia would've chosen playerboy over odin is if they were confident his reaction was a cop slip, but personally i feel one would have to be quite experienced at mafia to detect this (if anyone disagrees let me know).
this then begs the question: why odin instead of seuss, myself, or even e00e [if they believed he slipped cop]? i can understand if they thought the doc might save seuss or if they were somewhat skeptical of e00e. why odin then instead of me? not to be full of myself, but between me and odin, it seemed i had morre town cred on d1/n1. GGTemplar, Sagaz both explicitly state i'm their town reads (though GGTemplar later retracts this somewhat). i think Seuss either explicitly states or implies the same on d1/n1. playerboy implies a similar mentality when he follows my vote on Vonthin immediately. as far as Odin goes, nyx, GGTemplar, and E00e give him townish reads, with GGTemplar telling me that i'm a townier read than Odin:
On October 16 2013 08:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Although I dislike your quick followup post throwing July617 into the batch of your highest scum reads with Vonthin and myself (mainly because it seemed like a pretty weak read after your explanation of why you think Vonthin and I are mafia), I am honestly reading you more town than OdinOfPergo because the information, reads, and reasoning behind your reads are much more clearly presented and concise.
so the fact that odin was a larger threat than me means that odin had caught the right scent, mafia is risk averse and thinks i could be protected somehow, or killing me could somehow be tied back to one of them. i'm not sure how this ties to specific actions in this game yet (still thinking about it), but wanted to put this out there in case in triggered anything in the rest of you.
seuss, i'm not sure if i agree with some of your town reads [such as the quick town read on OWB], but for these i am in line with you:
e00e:i was initially in the camp that believed e00e was cop. HOWEVER, coming out of n1, i am now far more skeptical. if there was a chance e00e might be cop, why didn't mafia roleblock him? this makes me now believe there's a decent chance he's scum.
balla: i've gotten more suspicious of his play as the game progressed, but his first few posts of d2 really stuck out to me. in particular, this one:
On October 17 2013 13:02 Balla24 wrote: I guess that's helpful, but not really.. as its just how the game works, and irrelevant to whether it's T or TTT.
Seuss i'd prefer you comment on the night kills and what you think they mean. Who would do them and why? What do you think about the E00/playerboy topic? Does your previous scum read on July/SagaZ/nyx (i know some of the reads are weak and also some are possibly non-existant now, but still relevant) fit with the kills (I.E. do you think july would kill odin who was suspicious of him even though it would clearly cast suspicion on him)?
this seems like really weird behavior from a townie for me. as town: i come back to the thread and see 2 kills have happened in the night --> i start reevaluating my reads, postulating what may have happened, start applying pressure on my scum reads, etc. balla on the other hand starts picking at seuss' brain. maybe i'm off with this one, but why would you do this as town?? you should be primarily concerned with figuring out what this information reveals to you. why would you defer to someone else for their reads immediately? most times, the act of asking someone what they think about certain characters is to figure out if their thought process is a town-oriented or mafia-oriented one. why do you immediately start picking at the brain of the one, confirmed townie?? the only reason one would do this as town is if you are a sheep and are looking at seuss for guidance. but so far, none of balla's actions have betrayed sheeping tendencies. so this seems like a constructed effort to seem helpful and inquisitive.
so just to summarize my comments on balla - i read his comments as a scum slip.
as scum, every single person you are questioning you already KNOW is town or scum. ergo, i think it much easier in this scum mental framework to make the mistake of not thinking twice and prodding the one established townie. it just makes no sense to do this (in the way he does) as town. therefore, for now i'll be voting balla.
##Vote: Balla24
however, if most of you see balla's actions as something reasonable for a townie to do / something you would do yourself, i will reevaluate.
Sorry guys, quick post - long day, need a shower. Bereft that's a good framework of thinking, i'm just asking questions here, but if the same were said about you what's your defense to that?
i'd like to believe bereft is townie and thus would have more information to work with as compared to seuss. e00e and balla are the two overlaps between their analysis so i'll go with whichever
I poke people who are around. I poked you when you were posting at the beginning of day2 and then Seuss once you dissapeared and he got there. Only reason I asked Seuss questions about his thoughts were because I knew he was there and I wanted to use his reads to form new ideas and possibly help debunk some of what i've been thinking. Simple as that.
Ever since last game when Koshi took over Blurry's character and he started questioning everything and posting every thought that's how I've taken to playing the game. It's a very conducive way for town to play and makes it hard for mafia to not play. Granted, I'm not very good at it yet, especially since I'm not getting others to play like it either. I get my thoughts out as I can and I ask questions upon everyone, especially when they are active. So far, only confirmed townies have answered my questions, which sucks.
I believe my posts clearly show that i'm trying to process the information. Especially at the beginning of day2. I want to hear what people think, I don't want them to sit around not posting what they are thinking.
@July: You need a defense too dude. Plenty of people have questioned you.
On October 18 2013 10:38 nyxnyxnyx wrote: i'd like to believe bereft is townie and thus would have more information to work with as compared to seuss. e00e and balla are the two overlaps between their analysis so i'll go with whichever
Why aren't you defending yourself against the accusation that you're the serial killer?
because it doesn't affect the current decision point, which is to get a mafia lynch. i'm not the SK and have no idea how to prove i'm not, so i'll just go with the flow until next round
July and nyx. You guys need to defend yourself now. The fact that you aren't defending yourselves makes it look like you're waiting to see whether or not I will get lynched. This is not pro-town. Defend yourselves so other people can decide whether to clear you as a townie and thus push other people. You guys sheeping on every read from Bereft/Seuss and then ignoring their reads on you doesn't help. Doesn't help Bereft or Seuss and it certainly doesn't help me or any other possible townies. Form your own opinions.
At this point you have both slid through with minimal defense and minimal opinions of your own. July, GGtemplar has a theory on you. Please provide some insight on some of the actions he points out. Nyx... there's been theories on you since day1 and very few of them have been defended by you.
They are relevant now. How else can we possibly make a confident lynch now (which we need 100%) without all the suspicious people posting defenses?
On October 18 2013 09:51 Bereft wrote: so just to summarize my comments on balla - i read his comments as a scum slip.
as scum, every single person you are questioning you already KNOW is town or scum. ergo, i think it much easier in this scum mental framework to make the mistake of not thinking twice and prodding the one established townie. it just makes no sense to do this (in the way he does) as town. therefore, for now i'll be voting balla.
##Vote: Balla24
however, if most of you see balla's actions as something reasonable for a townie to do / something you would do yourself, i will reevaluate.
While Balla24 is one of my scum picks right now I'm fairly annoyed that roughly half the town is basically MIA. onlywonderboy, SagaZ, and istandwithmitt haven't posted since this morning, and nyxnyxnyx and July617 have posted all of once or twice.
Whoever is mafia and whoever is town, the town can't survive with so many people absent from the conversation or failing to contribute meaningfully.
Since Balla24 is at least posting I'd rather go after nyxnyxnyx or SagaZ, who either aren't posting or aren't putting much effort in. It's not that I think Balla24 is innocent, but I think we get more out of pressuring other people right now.
Damn, I really wish I had more to add (I know people have been calling out my lack of posts), but I'm just not coming up with much. nyx and july still seem scummy (or SK-y) and haven't really defended themselves much so not much has really changed there. Still, even if one of them is mafia, that still leaves two more of them out there.
Everyone seems to think Odin was the mafia kill and playerboy was the SK kill, but I'm not so sure. If the SK goes for Odin (who seems like the obvious mafia target), they are able to put a lot of pressure on july and nyx basically for free. It doesn't matter to him whether or not they are town or mafia, this kill increased suspicion even more and may lead to a lynch. Of course, if either july or nyx are actually mafia, it would make sense for them to kill someone else to take some of the heat away from themselves. Waking up and finding odin dead would certainly hurt this plan.
On October 18 2013 13:02 onlywonderboy wrote: Damn, I really wish I had more to add (I know people have been calling out my lack of posts), but I'm just not coming up with much. nyx and july still seem scummy (or SK-y) and haven't really defended themselves much so not much has really changed there. Still, even if one of them is mafia, that still leaves two more of them out there.
Everyone seems to think Odin was the mafia kill and playerboy was the SK kill, but I'm not so sure. If the SK goes for Odin (who seems like the obvious mafia target), they are able to put a lot of pressure on july and nyx basically for free. It doesn't matter to him whether or not they are town or mafia, this kill increased suspicion even more and may lead to a lynch. Of course, if either july or nyx are actually mafia, it would make sense for them to kill someone else to take some of the heat away from themselves. Waking up and finding odin dead would certainly hurt this plan.
I think playerboy345 was definitely the SK kill. Unless the mafia figured out he was a cop from his jumping on E00e, they had no reason to kill him. Honestly, I highly doubt they did.
I've explained it before, but killing Odin and Roleblocking Bereft was an extremely strong mafia play. Of the three prominent towns they were the two who potentially had power roles. For all my worries regarding my imminent death, killing me wouldn't have been much better than killing a Vanilla Townie. By targeting Bereft and Odin they potentially locked down our power-roles.
All that said, if you follow your ideas backwards from your conclusions, you should be able to find more to add. I reached my town/mafia/SK reads by starting with an assumption I was 90% sure of and working from there.
Even if you post an unfiltered, stream of consciousness thought process as you analyze it'll be more useful than not posting, even if it doesn't really lead anywhere.
Good point, they could have killed a different active player and still drew heat away from themselves. I think I just tunnel visioned on it being the obvious play, when the obvious play might have very well been the best play.
On October 18 2013 13:23 onlywonderboy wrote: Good point, they could have killed a different active player and still drew heat away from themselves. I think I just tunnel visioned on it being the obvious play, when the obvious play might have very well been the best play.
Of course it's a good point. I made it.
Whether I've won you over to my thinking or not, do some of the analysis I described and then post again. We need more voices in the thread, including yours.
As an aside this game has been fantastic in terms of activity for a newb game. Not a single modkill is fantastic and i'm sure it's making Umasi proud. Now let's just take it a step up a notch and post as much as possible. It ups the quality of the game and the difficulty for scum to hide in. It just makes it more fun. Please post!!~~~~~
I've been trying my best to do so and everybody else should be too. You will have more fun! Seriously. Sorry for the somewhat offtopicness, but i'm impressed is all ^_^
However, on a note more in favor of my defense: I do want to try to get you guys to put more weight into the fact that lurking IS a legitimate scum tactic for these forum games. Hell, that's why literally every game starts with a discussion on policy lynching lurkers or afkers as a scare tactic against it. It's hard to combat.
On October 18 2013 13:46 istandwithmitt wrote: You guys need to seriously start making shorter posts. Who was the guy who scumslipped at the beginning of the day? We should lynch him.
On October 18 2013 13:43 Balla24 wrote: However, on a note more in favor of my defense: I do want to try to get you guys to put more weight into the fact that lurking IS a legitimate scum tactic for these forum games. Hell, that's why literally every game starts with a discussion on policy lynching lurkers or afkers as a scare tactic against it. It's hard to combat.
I am totally okay with murdering SagaZ based on this principle.
On October 18 2013 13:46 istandwithmitt wrote: You guys need to seriously start making shorter posts. Who was the guy who scumslipped at the beginning of the day? We should lynch him.
Nyx and mitt's voting style is going to screw with town if they are town, and my thought's are that i'm sure they are 70% town, why? Simply because of the bad voting style, would mafia (if they were) vote so poorly?
Yes but even then I don't think this game is five levels deep, (I know it's not something that should be said but we shouldn't try and over assume anything, that's how town get's lynched like day 1 (yeah I could of stopped it but i didn't and i messed up and i apologize for that, and I think lynching bad town isn't something we can afford to do anymore) , and we can't afford any more miss-lynches .
Now with that said yes it could apply to wonderboy and E00e, which comes out to four potential town - Of this my read is 40 - 50 percent, not a strong number i know, but realistically speaking what if they are? What's to say that they're not, couldn't it always be a possibility?
(Yes I know that isn't a safe way to play but it's the only one coming from myself that i believe in enough to post to contribute something to the game.)
I want to give a big and heartfelt apologize to the town, this day has been dramatically bad and busy. it is almost 3.30 am and i have to wake up at 6 tomorrow. I'm in no condition to make super detailed analysis but I'll give my toughs on what's going on so far. Fortunately I'll be home earlier tomorow.
First of all the night kills. I am not as sure as you guys that mafia killed odin and SK killed player... I agree Odin was killed by mafia, but that looks like a horrible plan when Bereft is still in game, maybe they were fishing for blue idk? Odin was against nyx and july, but drawing conclusion from that is way too obvious... I'm pretty sure it's something else but I can't grasp it. SK killed player, why? I tough player looked mafia so I hope it is because SK was fishing for mafia.
I will adress Seus post now. I think you are mistaken in some aspects. First of all me being mafia; I think I have been very transparent with my actions, of I still look like mafia then I don't really know what to do. I don't know what you mean by sucking up to you, you are the confirmed town, I was doing my best to follow your train of toughs when you gave town a direction, which we lacked at that point. My voting on day 1 may look confusing, my vote on mitt was not an actual sheep vote, I pushed a SK theory (more on that later) and wanted to see what others tough about it. Then you specifically asked to change votes from him, and I pushed onto July cause frankly at that point Vonthin was looking like a bandwagon, just like mitt was earlier. Finally since there was no steam I went with Vonthin to be absolutely sure we wouldn't see a swing in votes to mitt. I've been on the nyx train since he posted his sheeping on Odin, and I still am. I tough that player was very scummy for going very hard on a minor mistake. I didn't particularly tried to defend E00e with it.
Now I disagree completely with your town reads on July and Onlywonderboy. July I gave my reasons before, there was huge contradiction and I don't think him not jumping trains really make up for it. And Onlywonderboy, I mean how on earth does this guy looks town to anyone? Has been sitting on the fence for everything day 1, only said he tough mitt was a bad town and hopped into vonthin. he's been practically just say yes seuss nice work, i agree the whole game and more recently is posting that SK shot Odin and mafia shot player??? I don't know if I'm crazy or what but that looks so scummy to me. Nyx looks downright scum and not SK to me, sheeping onto some1 has a SK doesn't seem very right since he has no clue who that person alignment is, mafia on the other hand... Also you put GGtemplar on your town list, the majority of his activity has been today, and he looks like the only person trying to bring activity to the town, that is good to me. But on the other hand, I really dislike how he is drawing these sub clans on the town, saying this is circle 1, this circle 2. I wouldn't be so quick to see him as town.
Lastly and this is important, I want to bring back the mitt is SK that I stated on day 1. This is how I see it: Assuming SK takes cop immunity, he has to appear town enough so he doesn't get lynched, but town enough so he can bait a cop check and doesn't get shot by mafia at night. And mitt is extremely fitting the model. Now after the close lynch he had to play a bit more town. SK killed player IMO, and player was the only one to read and comment on my SK theory when I proposed it, even if he thinks it's wrong, he tough about it enough to post about it, he can't shoot me cause that would make it too apparent, but he can shoot the only guy that tough about it. I recognize that this is a deep play that involves mitt not backing off his stance while he was on the frying pan and pull trough, and also that thing about player might be just smoke. But for some reason it makes sense to me, maybe I am trying too hard to find sense in player's death and mitt's early game play style.
On October 18 2013 13:43 Balla24 wrote: However, on a note more in favor of my defense: I do want to try to get you guys to put more weight into the fact that lurking IS a legitimate scum tactic for these forum games. Hell, that's why literally every game starts with a discussion on policy lynching lurkers or afkers as a scare tactic against it. It's hard to combat.
I am totally okay with murdering SagaZ based on this principle.
On October 18 2013 13:46 istandwithmitt wrote: You guys need to seriously start making shorter posts. Who was the guy who scumslipped at the beginning of the day? We should lynch him.
Welcome back.
Who do you think scumslipped?
The guy who was like "woah there has to be an SK because playerboy died" when there's no way to differentiate scum/SK or a vig kill. Obviously knew that the other kill was from the mafia. I can go back & look but~~
On October 18 2013 15:25 SagaZ wrote: I want to give a big and heartfelt apologize to the town, this day has been dramatically bad and busy. it is almost 3.30 am and i have to wake up at 6 tomorrow. I'm in no condition to make super detailed analysis but I'll give my toughs on what's going on so far. Fortunately I'll be home earlier tomorow.
First of all the night kills. I am not as sure as you guys that mafia killed odin and SK killed player... I agree Odin was killed by mafia, but that looks like a horrible plan when Bereft is still in game, maybe they were fishing for blue idk? Odin was against nyx and july, but drawing conclusion from that is way too obvious... I'm pretty sure it's something else but I can't grasp it. SK killed player, why? I tough player looked mafia so I hope it is because SK was fishing for mafia.
Why do you think Bereft was/is a better target than Odin? Odin was the driving force of conversation for most of the day, and did a fairly decent job applying pressure to people he thought were scum. He might have been off the scent Day 1, but that was going to get dangerous if he lived.
Like I said to onlywonderboy, don't overthink it. Killing the most dangerous town and blocking the second most dangerous town was a simple, straightforward, and highly effective play. Because we tunneled so hard on istandwithmitt and Vonthin we didn't really gain as much information from the vote as we should have. With so many lurkers/busy people killing the active town is a very effective way for the mafia to win.
I don't know which of us will die tonight, but I'm fairly certain both Bereft and I will be gone by Day 4. When we're gone it's going to be GGTeMpLaR and Balla24 talking back and forth while the rest of you keep waiting for a burning bush to tell you who the scum are.
Heaven help the town if the SK decides to end the game early, makes a good guess, and we lose both Bereft and me tonight.
So for the love of Marlon Brando, everyone needs to be posting more and dithering less.
On October 18 2013 15:25 SagaZ wrote: I will adress Seus post now. I think you are mistaken in some aspects. First of all me being mafia; I think I have been very transparent with my actions, of I still look like mafia then I don't really know what to do. I don't know what you mean by sucking up to you, you are the confirmed town, I was doing my best to follow your train of toughs when you gave town a direction, which we lacked at that point. My voting on day 1 may look confusing, my vote on mitt was not an actual sheep vote, I pushed a SK theory (more on that later) and wanted to see what others tough about it. Then you specifically asked to change votes from him, and I pushed onto July cause frankly at that point Vonthin was looking like a bandwagon, just like mitt was earlier. Finally since there was no steam I went with Vonthin to be absolutely sure we wouldn't see a swing in votes to mitt. I've been on the nyx train since he posted his sheeping on Odin, and I still am. I tough that player was very scummy for going very hard on a minor mistake. I didn't particularly tried to defend E00e with it.
Now I disagree completely with your town reads on July and Onlywonderboy. July I gave my reasons before, there was huge contradiction and I don't think him not jumping trains really make up for it. And Onlywonderboy, I mean how on earth does this guy looks town to anyone? Has been sitting on the fence for everything day 1, only said he tough mitt was a bad town and hopped into vonthin. he's been practically just say yes seuss nice work, i agree the whole game and more recently is posting that SK shot Odin and mafia shot player??? I don't know if I'm crazy or what but that looks so scummy to me. Nyx looks downright scum and not SK to me, sheeping onto some1 has a SK doesn't seem very right since he has no clue who that person alignment is, mafia on the other hand... Also you put GGtemplar on your town list, the majority of his activity has been today, and he looks like the only person trying to bring activity to the town, that is good to me. But on the other hand, I really dislike how he is drawing these sub clans on the town, saying this is circle 1, this circle 2. I wouldn't be so quick to see him as town.
Lastly and this is important, I want to bring back the mitt is SK that I stated on day 1. This is how I see it: Assuming SK takes cop immunity, he has to appear town enough so he doesn't get lynched, but town enough so he can bait a cop check and doesn't get shot by mafia at night. And mitt is extremely fitting the model. Now after the close lynch he had to play a bit more town. SK killed player IMO, and player was the only one to read and comment on my SK theory when I proposed it, even if he thinks it's wrong, he tough about it enough to post about it, he can't shoot me cause that would make it too apparent, but he can shoot the only guy that tough about it. I recognize that this is a deep play that involves mitt not backing off his stance while he was on the frying pan and pull trough, and also that thing about player might be just smoke. But for some reason it makes sense to me, maybe I am trying too hard to find sense in player's death and mitt's early game play style.
"Sucking up" was a little bit of flavor, don't read too much into it. But you defer to me way more than anyone else in the game. Nobody else brings up my confirmed status the way you do, or quite as often.
It's getting late and I can't give you the full response I want. It's time for me to sleep. I'll talk more when I return.
Before I completely disappear, I would like to reemphasize my nyxnyxnyx vote. While SagaZ is still on my mafia list, he's at least having a conversation with me which I can analyze. He might convince me he's town, at which point my next preferred target is nyxnyxnyx. Be prepared to participate and defend yourself.
On October 18 2013 13:43 Balla24 wrote: However, on a note more in favor of my defense: I do want to try to get you guys to put more weight into the fact that lurking IS a legitimate scum tactic for these forum games. Hell, that's why literally every game starts with a discussion on policy lynching lurkers or afkers as a scare tactic against it. It's hard to combat.
I am totally okay with murdering SagaZ based on this principle.
On October 18 2013 13:46 istandwithmitt wrote: You guys need to seriously start making shorter posts. Who was the guy who scumslipped at the beginning of the day? We should lynch him.
Welcome back.
Who do you think scumslipped?
The guy who was like "woah there has to be an SK because playerboy died" when there's no way to differentiate scum/SK or a vig kill. Obviously knew that the other kill was from the mafia. I can go back & look but~~
There's no such post. The closest I could find was this:
On October 17 2013 11:30 Bereft wrote: ok, so looks like we have an SK. or potentially a vig. though vig is a quite unlikely imo as I don't see any town vig shooting playerboy N1 save for maybe mitt. mitt, you vig?
also, I have been roleblocked.
Except he explicitly brings up the potential for a vig, even though he doesn't think it likely.
If you are town and people want to lynch you should not agree. The way you wrote that sounds fake to me and you are trying to look town by being sacrificial.
On October 18 2013 10:18 July617 wrote: Sorry guys, quick post - long day, need a shower. Bereft that's a good framework of thinking, i'm just asking questions here, but if the same were said about you what's your defense to that?
Balla I hope you've got a defense as well .
this post is bizarre. why would I post a rebuttal to my own case? to do so would only feed Balla material for his own defense.
I did explicitly state that if fellow townies disagreed with me and felt that they could see themselves doing the same thing to let me know. what's your opinion on this? do YOU think it's a scum slip or a justified course of action for town?
On October 18 2013 13:43 Balla24 wrote: However, on a note more in favor of my defense: I do want to try to get you guys to put more weight into the fact that lurking IS a legitimate scum tactic for these forum games. Hell, that's why literally every game starts with a discussion on policy lynching lurkers or afkers as a scare tactic against it. It's hard to combat.
I am totally okay with murdering SagaZ based on this principle.
On October 18 2013 13:46 istandwithmitt wrote: You guys need to seriously start making shorter posts. Who was the guy who scumslipped at the beginning of the day? We should lynch him.
Welcome back.
Who do you think scumslipped?
The guy who was like "woah there has to be an SK because playerboy died" when there's no way to differentiate scum/SK or a vig kill. Obviously knew that the other kill was from the mafia. I can go back & look but~~
@istandwithmitt: You realize that the person who did that (Bereft) is very likely confirmed town, unless he's lying about his RB or a townie roleblocked him, and it's been a whole 24hours with no counter claims so that chance goes up even higher. Plus, there's certainly a way to differentiate between vig kill and other kills just based on information you have elsewhere.
On top of that, the possible slip was because he assumed playerboy was killed by SK and mafia killed Odin right away. Regardless, it doesn't matter, since he was roleblocked. Do you really think it's reasonable to not believe the roleblock with no counter-claims?
On October 18 2013 10:18 July617 wrote: Sorry guys, quick post - long day, need a shower. Bereft that's a good framework of thinking, i'm just asking questions here, but if the same were said about you what's your defense to that?
Balla I hope you've got a defense as well .
this post is bizarre. why would I post a rebuttal to my own case? to do so would only feed Balla material for his own defense.
I did explicitly state that if fellow townies disagreed with me and felt that they could see themselves doing the same thing to let me know. what's your opinion on this? do YOU think it's a scum slip or a justified course of action for town?
On top of that, he's literally doing exactly what you deemed as a scum slip to vote me. Except even I wouldn't interrupt a case like that.
His next post is odd too, don't you think?
On October 18 2013 14:29 July617 wrote: Nyx and mitt's voting style is going to screw with town if they are town, and my thought's are that i'm sure they are 70% town, why? Simply because of the bad voting style, would mafia (if they were) vote so poorly?
This is a contradiction in itself. If their voting styles are bad and will screw with town, then they are mafia because they aren't helping town? What? That's like saying "man this guys posting sucks and he's really not pro-town, so he's probably not scum because scum would think better". No. That's not logical. How do you hunt for scum then July, pls explain?
EBWOP: Last paragraph, first and second sentences should read: "This is a contradiction in itself. If their voting styles are bad and will screw with town, then they aren't mafia because they aren't helping town?"
On October 18 2013 16:40 nyxnyxnyx wrote: i'm a vanilla townie, for realsies. voting me out would end the game right away, though i will go along with the vote if you and Bereft agree on it.
Seuss... i'm on board and I think you just need a bit more support to get things rolling. I'm very comfortable using my vote like this as there is a good 10 hours or so before the vote. I realize that I am under heavy suspicion right now and casting my vote first even before other supposed townies is strange, but we need to get discussion started.
##vote: nyxnyxnyx
Nyx, this defense is even worse than no defense. You haven't said anything in regards to the night actions, and your accusations on day2 (hell you didn't even say much about your accusations on day1). Gives us more.
I will also vote nyx because my bad feeling about them has not changed since my vote on day 1. I dont have anyone else that I consider not town this strongly, but if that changes Im open to change the vote. I realize this might give additional support to the Balla-e00E connection but I dont think I should not vote for my anti-town read just because it might put suspicion on me. I still think that if we are very sure about a different mafia and think nyx is the SK we should lynch the Mafia first.
@E00e how do you not have any other reads than that. You have tunnel visioned so hard on nyx it's not even funny. What about july, ggtemplar, sagaz... come on now...
I'm pretty suspicious of SagaZ at this point. He very well have been busy, but coming back to make one impassioned post doesn't clear him in my eyes. I'm interested to see if he's able to participate in any of the conversations going on around lynching time. That's generally where a lot of useful information comes out. Although it seems we are going pretty much all in on nyx at this point. Which, I don't have an issue voting for nyx (I think he's kind of scummy), but I don't want to start the bandwagon too early when new information may come to light. And of course I disagree with SagaZ's analysis of me. I find it so weird he can say all my posts have been useless when Seuss is claiming they are pretty good, just not a lot of them. I find it interesting they can have such different opinions on my posts.
what do you guys think of the fact that mafia decided to risk not blocking E00e when there's a decent chance he could be cop vs myself who has given any indication of a blue role?
@Balla: there's no reason to blindly believe a roleblock claim. It's weird that he would claim in the first place (do vanillas get roleblocked??). I think his slipping wrt claim is the scummiest thing to happen in the game so far & I don't get it if you guys don't agree.
That is a bit suspicious that E00e was not roleblocked, could mean he's part of the scum team. Or it could just mean the scum team read you as something more dangerous than a possible cop (and it depends on how much they agreed with playerboy's "soft-claim" claim). The other possibility is scum purposefully roleblocked someone else to put suspicion on E00e because of that. Seems pretty deep though. There are even some more possibilities but not really even ones I want to dive into.
The odd thing is which I think they didn't think about was that roleblocking you would confirm you. Why confirm a strong townie over a weaker one like OWB? It's clear they thought you were a blue.
On October 19 2013 00:48 istandwithmitt wrote: @Balla: there's no reason to blindly believe a roleblock claim. It's weird that he would claim in the first place (do vanillas get roleblocked??). I think his slipping wrt claim is the scummiest thing to happen in the game so far & I don't get it if you guys don't agree.
##unvote ##vote: Bereft
It was explained earlier. Vanillas can get roleblocked and will be informed if they are. As such, it's perfectly normal (according to my coach) for people to immediately post that they've been roleblocked, as it doesn't actually roleclaim and gives the town important information.
@onlywonderboy: I accused you of not saying anything constructive, and being the yes man of seuss to appeal to him. this last post you give us: You're suspicious of me, the only one that makes a case about you. you hope to get info, nice. you jump on the nyx train. and you go back to seuss said that so he has to be right. At this point I can't understand how you do it to slip under the radar so well, but maybe this will get some concrete posts from you: ##Vote onlywonderboy
On October 19 2013 00:48 istandwithmitt wrote: @Balla: there's no reason to blindly believe a roleblock claim. It's weird that he would claim in the first place (do vanillas get roleblocked??). I think his slipping wrt claim is the scummiest thing to happen in the game so far & I don't get it if you guys don't agree.
##unvote ##vote: Bereft
Just to clarify: if you are roleblocked you get a PM saying "You have been roleblocked" regardless of whether or not you have a role or how many people roleblocked you. For all we know he was roleblocked multiple times and a townie is not calling it. It's for this reason if you are RB'ed you should claim it, because it can possibly clear two townies.
It's only a slip if he is scum. He already explained his gut reaction that explains it. After that it's up to you to decide whether it was a scum slip or genuinely a gut reaction. I think it was a gut reaction for sure.
@Balla I just put my vote on the person im most certain and your post reminded me of voting. I dont think its a bandwagon if you have this much time left to change the votes. On the first day I actually voted on Nyx before you (being the second person after Vonthin) and you then said you agreed with me. Isnt it strange you would get that wrong?
On October 19 2013 00:48 istandwithmitt wrote: @Balla: there's no reason to blindly believe a roleblock claim. It's weird that he would claim in the first place (do vanillas get roleblocked??). I think his slipping wrt claim is the scummiest thing to happen in the game so far & I don't get it if you guys don't agree.
##unvote ##vote: Bereft
It was explained earlier. Vanillas can get roleblocked and will be informed if they are. As such, it's perfectly normal (according to my coach) for people to immediately post that they've been roleblocked, as it doesn't actually roleclaim and gives the town important information.
Please don't discuss what you talk about with your coach/what your coach has said until after game. Not that big a deal because you're the IC, but it's better to keep the two things separate.
On October 19 2013 00:55 E00e wrote: @Balla I just put my vote on the person im most certain and your post reminded me of voting. I dont think its a bandwagon if you have this much time left to change the votes. On the first day I actually voted on Nyx before you (being the second person after Vonthin) and you then said you agreed with me. Isnt it strange you would get that wrong?
Ah you're right after I go back again lol. I went back and saw my big post and assumed I had voted then. My bad T_T
I don't find any way that this could have been a roleblock. He is the first one posting on day 2 and says he got roleblocked, if that was a fake one he would be betting that there is no roleblock or that no one else got roleblocked. think of how akward this starts to look if day 2 starts, he says he got RB'd and someone else comes right after him saying "hey me too!"
On October 19 2013 00:48 istandwithmitt wrote: @Balla: there's no reason to blindly believe a roleblock claim. It's weird that he would claim in the first place (do vanillas get roleblocked??). I think his slipping wrt claim is the scummiest thing to happen in the game so far & I don't get it if you guys don't agree.
##unvote ##vote: Bereft
It was explained earlier. Vanillas can get roleblocked and will be informed if they are. As such, it's perfectly normal (according to my coach) for people to immediately post that they've been roleblocked, as it doesn't actually roleclaim and gives the town important information.
Please don't discuss what you talk about with your coach/what your coach has said until after game. Not that big a deal because you're the IC, but it's better to keep the two things separate.
On October 19 2013 00:53 SagaZ wrote: @onlywonderboy: I accused you of not saying anything constructive, and being the yes man of seuss to appeal to him. this last post you give us: You're suspicious of me, the only one that makes a case about you. you hope to get info, nice. you jump on the nyx train. and you go back to seuss said that so he has to be right. At this point I can't understand how you do it to slip under the radar so well, but maybe this will get some concrete posts from you: ##Vote onlywonderboy
This post actually makes me believe SagaZ is town. He's right, I've been been way too quiet and have been coasting for most of this game. I've been quick to follow Seuss because he's town and I know he's an incredibly analytic thinker, but that's way too passive play and doesn't really do much to help the town. I tried to get some discussion going with differentiating the mafia/SK kill, but that broke down quick and it turned out I was likely wrong. Honestly I'm as surprised as him I'm flown under the radar and really that's just bad play on my part. I'm still working on rereading the pages to try and get more scum tells, but I can at least put forth I think SagaZ is town based off this post.
On day 1 Balla defended my posts and put suspicion on playerboy and nyx. Then on day two after seeing that playerboy was a cop Balla immediately changes their opinion on my day 1 post and is aggressive towards me. Could it be that Balla every day tried to find a weak town lynch target being Mafia themself? Disagreeing with playerboy was easy because he appeared to be flaming and voting for nyx did not require much justification either. Now on day2 it looks like nyx is going to get killed anyway so you switch to the next weakest player (thinking they cant defend themself) me. After seeing that I actually try to defend myself contrary to nyx you switch again.
I am just frustrated with you because you are so comfortable to see someone get lynched without properly defending yourself to others. You have defended yourself to me several times now, and yes it has made me see you more as town. Doesn't make me more frustrated about your town play.
@onlywonderboy When I read your posts it does look like you agree a lot with other people and dont bring much of your own. Seuss might have thought better of your posts because in general we like to think positive of people who have the same opinion as our self.
On October 19 2013 00:53 SagaZ wrote: @onlywonderboy: I accused you of not saying anything constructive, and being the yes man of seuss to appeal to him. this last post you give us: You're suspicious of me, the only one that makes a case about you. you hope to get info, nice. you jump on the nyx train. and you go back to seuss said that so he has to be right. At this point I can't understand how you do it to slip under the radar so well, but maybe this will get some concrete posts from you: ##Vote onlywonderboy
This post actually makes me believe SagaZ is town. He's right, I've been been way too quiet and have been coasting for most of this game. I've been quick to follow Seuss because he's town and I know he's an incredibly analytic thinker, but that's way too passive play and doesn't really do much to help the town. I tried to get some discussion going with differentiating the mafia/SK kill, but that broke down quick and it turned out I was likely wrong. Honestly I'm as surprised as him I'm flown under the radar and really that's just bad play on my part. I'm still working on rereading the pages to try and get more scum tells, but I can at least put forth I think SagaZ is town based off this post.
Gah... OWB you are literally the most bland townie player ever haha. You shouldn't have backed down from your pressure just because he calls you out. Stop being a pussy man ^_^.
I think a possible mafia combination is July/nyx/x. It seems unlikely to have two mafia players lurking so much, but they could easily be relying on the third mafia player to be the active face of their team. Nyx came under a lot of suspicion based on the way his voting went down (switching to Vonith for little reason and then him turning town). Plus him and July were getting pressured heavily by Odin. July actually goes out of his way to defend nyx's vote because it would be a bad play for the mafia. I mean, in a vacuum it makes him look suspicious, but the bandwagon on that vote was pretty strong maybe they thought it wouldn't be too hard to hide among the other townie voters. Also there is the possibility nyx could act as a martyr for the an active mafia player to gain tons of credibility in the town. I mean clearly it's not the cleanest play on the mafia's part, but having two players come under suspicion by Odin early could definitely make them panic.
It's certainly a different theory than most people have brought up, but even if I'm wrong the conversation that spawns around it can certainly be valuable.
its my first time playing any sort of mafia game, so i defer to the better judgment of whoever seems decent at the game. i've explained my logic before for sheeping (chaos = bad, trusting blindly lets you play with more 'information' at the risk of the guy you blindly trusted being scum).
town had a bad start with mislynch + 2 kills, so i would think our only hope would be for there to be a mafia lynch this round, possibly led by the two 'better' players. if the aforementioned 'better' players cannot differentiate between scum and me, then there is no hope for town anyway. i stand by my E00e vote, though it's mostly symbolic. i have no idea who the fuck is town or scum, just not me.
How do you expect "two better players" to differentiate between scum and you if you
1) Don't explain yourself and answer questions. 2) Continue to do scum things like "voting symbolically" without making your own opinion because you don't read the thread enough.
Again, we are ALL new to this game. The only player who has played more than 3 games is Bereft, and he's played what... 4? For most people, this is their first or second game. It's not an excuse.
For example... why wouldn't you vote me instead of E00e if it's just a symbolic vote? We are both voting you... what difference does it make?
I definitely felt a similar sense of helplessness when I played my first game. I mean I realize we shouldn't just believe him because he says he's not mafia, but speaking from personal experience I know it's very possible for this type of thing to happen for someone playing town in their first game.
So let's entertain the idea that nyx is possibly a player new to the game that dug himself a hole that he can't get out of. Are there any other potential targets that we would be comfortable going for, or is there just no other possible option?
@Balla, I think you're underestimating the difference between a player's first game and their second game. Again, it doesn't completely exonerate nyx by any means, but I know I definitely feel WAY more comfortable this game than I did last game.
like i said, no difference to me. i'm basically blind since the 2 people i'm following (Bereft and Seuss, after Odin's death) have not voted / are voting for me.
Sure... there are tons of possible options. I'm uneasy with July, i'd like to pressure him, but he also doesn't seem to be around. You had a scum read on SagaZ and same with Seuss. GGTemplar isn't around, istandwithmitt had a read on him. There are tons of options, pressure them. I'm busy right now so i'm just skimming so i'm not ready to make a case for anybody atm. Feel free to do so.
On October 19 2013 03:02 Bereft wrote: Seuss, what did you think about my e00e case? personally while I feel there's a good case nyx is SK, I'm not sure if I'm fully sold on it yet.
I'm already of the opinion he's mafia. I think this is just corroborating evidence. He may even be their roleblocker, but that's would just be a lucky streak.
I think at this point we should decide between nyxnyxnyx and E00e for lynches. Whether or not nyxnyxnyx is SK he's been particularly unhelpful. I've stated my reasons for thinking E00e is mafia, and Bereft has a fairly decent point about E00e not getting roleblocked when there was a chance he was a cop.
On October 18 2013 14:29 July617 wrote: Nyx and mitt's voting style is going to screw with town if they are town, and my thought's are that i'm sure they are 70% town, why? Simply because of the bad voting style, would mafia (if they were) vote so poorly?
Yes but even then I don't think this game is five levels deep, (I know it's not something that should be said but we shouldn't try and over assume anything, that's how town get's lynched like day 1 (yeah I could of stopped it but i didn't and i messed up and i apologize for that, and I think lynching bad town isn't something we can afford to do anymore) , and we can't afford any more miss-lynches .
Now with that said yes it could apply to wonderboy and E00e, which comes out to four potential town - Of this my read is 40 - 50 percent, not a strong number i know, but realistically speaking what if they are? What's to say that they're not, couldn't it always be a possibility?
(Yes I know that isn't a safe way to play but it's the only one coming from myself that i believe in enough to post to contribute something to the game.)
July, I take it from this post that by process of elimination GGTemplar, Sagaz, and Balla are your scum reads? what's your response to my case on Balls? (since you brought it up previously yet stated no opinion)
On October 19 2013 03:02 nyxnyxnyx wrote: if it makes you happy
##unvote
##Vote: Balla24
like i said, no difference to me. i'm basically blind since the 2 people i'm following (Bereft and Seuss, after Odin's death) have not voted / are voting for me.
Ugh... out of all the things I said you chose to do this? So unhelpful... You're not even playing the game by not even thinking about any reasoning for anything. @Onlywonderboy this is the kind of thing i'm saying. It might be his 1st game but by your 1st game you were at least trying to form your opinion AND you were being defensive about things. He might be uncomfortable but this is completely ridiculous. I made a perfectly reasonable post for him to answer to and all he does is vote me for it T_T. You would have never done that on your 1st game, however uncomfortable you were.
@Seuss Could you reiterate again why you think im Mafia? I would like to know the accusation so I can defend myself.
There were a few players that said they didnt think I was the cop and other players pointed out that Mafia could have thought playerboy was the cop. I dont think it really is evidence against me that I was not roleblocked? Would you like to know if i am vanilla town or a role? If that is a bad question to answer just say so!
that was my argument actually. but I realize now that my argument assumes mafia thought (like playerboy and I did) that you were soft claiming. which may not necessarily be the case - because going back and rereading your filter a second time, it doesn't come off like a soft claim after all. I think at the time I was largely convinced by playerboy aggressive reaction.
I guess the question that faces us now is that if we think nyx is the SK (as I think there's a very slim chance he's scum), would we prefer to target him instead of a potential scum read? if he's our safest bet right now at avoiding a mislynch I would be fine with it.
On October 19 2013 05:40 Bereft wrote: that was my argument actually. but I realize now that my argument assumes mafia thought (like playerboy and I did) that you were soft claiming. which may not necessarily be the case - because going back and rereading your filter a second time, it doesn't come off like a soft claim after all. I think at the time I was largely convinced by playerboy aggressive reaction.
I guess the question that faces us now is that if we think nyx is the SK (as I think there's a very slim chance he's scum), would we prefer to target him instead of a potential scum read? if he's our safest bet right now at avoiding a mislynch I would be fine with it.
Wait what? I thought your argument was based on the fact that he wasn't roleblocked which means he's part of the scum team. What does it have to do with whether or not scum thinks he was soft-claiming?
On October 19 2013 00:36 Balla24 wrote: and wtf man... get off my back... this is the second time you've voted directly after me directly like me with very little other information.
I only wanted to use my vote as a pressure vote and you trying to start a train like this makes it hard.
This looks so forced as a bus. I am more and more sure of the E00e/onlywonderboy/Balla24 circle every day. I am trying to take a step back to make sure I'm not tunnel visioning on this theory so I can be right, but I can't help noticing these connections. Hopefully they are not inspired by my confirmation bias.
On October 19 2013 00:39 onlywonderboy wrote: I'm pretty suspicious of SagaZ at this point. He very well have been busy, but coming back to make one impassioned post doesn't clear him in my eyes. I'm interested to see if he's able to participate in any of the conversations going on around lynching time. That's generally where a lot of useful information comes out. Although it seems we are going pretty much all in on nyx at this point. Which, I don't have an issue voting for nyx (I think he's kind of scummy), but I don't want to start the bandwagon too early when new information may come to light. And of course I disagree with SagaZ's analysis of me. I find it so weird he can say all my posts have been useless when Seuss is claiming they are pretty good, just not a lot of them. I find it interesting they can have such different opinions on my posts.
More intra-circle busing going around? Maybe, maybe not. Just note these interactions between onlywonderboy-E00e-Balla24.
On October 19 2013 00:42 Bereft wrote: what do you guys think of the fact that mafia decided to risk not blocking E00e when there's a decent chance he could be cop vs myself who has given any indication of a blue role?
Well given my reads, I think it fits pretty well with the fact that he is likely mafia.
On October 19 2013 00:48 istandwithmitt wrote: @Balla: there's no reason to blindly believe a roleblock claim. It's weird that he would claim in the first place (do vanillas get roleblocked??). I think his slipping wrt claim is the scummiest thing to happen in the game so far & I don't get it if you guys don't agree.
##unvote ##vote: Bereft
I just have to laugh at this at this point because we're somewhat stuck with you now that we failed to lynch you Day 1. You're not 100% wrong that Bereft could be faking, but the way he's playing compared to others, there's just better lynches for mafia at this point and if we end up flipping a scum, we can go back and look at Bereft's interaction with them when it's more appropriate.
I'm still not going to write you off as being scum/SK entirely, but there's better candidates for today for both roles so you've got a pass from me for today. Also, I really do want to re-emphasize that just because you're giving me lulz, I still disapprove of how random you're playing because it isn't really pro-town at all.
On October 19 2013 00:53 SagaZ wrote: @onlywonderboy: I accused you of not saying anything constructive, and being the yes man of seuss to appeal to him. this last post you give us: You're suspicious of me, the only one that makes a case about you. you hope to get info, nice. you jump on the nyx train. and you go back to seuss said that so he has to be right. At this point I can't understand how you do it to slip under the radar so well, but maybe this will get some concrete posts from you: ##Vote onlywonderboy
This post actually makes me believe SagaZ is town. He's right, I've been been way too quiet and have been coasting for most of this game. I've been quick to follow Seuss because he's town and I know he's an incredibly analytic thinker, but that's way too passive play and doesn't really do much to help the town. I tried to get some discussion going with differentiating the mafia/SK kill, but that broke down quick and it turned out I was likely wrong. Honestly I'm as surprised as him I'm flown under the radar and really that's just bad play on my part. I'm still working on rereading the pages to try and get more scum tells, but I can at least put forth I think SagaZ is town based off this post.
This is weird for me, not weird as in mafia but weird as in I don't know what to make of it in light of my current read on you and E00e/Balla24.
On October 19 2013 01:27 nyxnyxnyx wrote: #Vote: E00e
I'm even more convinced you're a lone agent serial killer now than before.
On October 19 2013 02:20 onlywonderboy wrote: I think a possible mafia combination is July/nyx/x. It seems unlikely to have two mafia players lurking so much, but they could easily be relying on the third mafia player to be the active face of their team. Nyx came under a lot of suspicion based on the way his voting went down (switching to Vonith for little reason and then him turning town). Plus him and July were getting pressured heavily by Odin. July actually goes out of his way to defend nyx's vote because it would be a bad play for the mafia. I mean, in a vacuum it makes him look suspicious, but the bandwagon on that vote was pretty strong maybe they thought it wouldn't be too hard to hide among the other townie voters. Also there is the possibility nyx could act as a martyr for the an active mafia player to gain tons of credibility in the town. I mean clearly it's not the cleanest play on the mafia's part, but having two players come under suspicion by Odin early could definitely make them panic.
It's certainly a different theory than most people have brought up, but even if I'm wrong the conversation that spawns around it can certainly be valuable.
You're doing a good job of ruining my confidence in my theory that you are mafia with Balla24-E00e so I dislike this post for that reason =(. I don't think you're my lynch for today though because of it.
On October 19 2013 05:40 Bereft wrote: that was my argument actually. but I realize now that my argument assumes mafia thought (like playerboy and I did) that you were soft claiming. which may not necessarily be the case - because going back and rereading your filter a second time, it doesn't come off like a soft claim after all. I think at the time I was largely convinced by playerboy aggressive reaction.
I guess the question that faces us now is that if we think nyx is the SK (as I think there's a very slim chance he's scum), would we prefer to target him instead of a potential scum read? if he's our safest bet right now at avoiding a mislynch I would be fine with it.
My concern at the moment is that nyxnyxnyx will skate by on the same defense istandwithmitt did, which would make the "safe" play for just about everyone to be lurking, cryptic posts, aggressive "you're bad if you think I'm scum" posts, and generally being unhelpful. That's not how town should play.
I'm leaving my vote on him for the moment while I reevaluate Balla24, E00e, and SagaZ. I also need to take onlywonderboy's aggro post into account.
On October 19 2013 05:40 Bereft wrote: that was my argument actually. but I realize now that my argument assumes mafia thought (like playerboy and I did) that you were soft claiming. which may not necessarily be the case - because going back and rereading your filter a second time, it doesn't come off like a soft claim after all. I think at the time I was largely convinced by playerboy aggressive reaction.
I guess the question that faces us now is that if we think nyx is the SK (as I think there's a very slim chance he's scum), would we prefer to target him instead of a potential scum read? if he's our safest bet right now at avoiding a mislynch I would be fine with it.
Avoiding miss lynch is number 1 priority; if we have a choice, I think lynching SK first is definitely better. I think the reason should be fairly obvious.
On October 19 2013 04:20 E00e wrote: @Seuss Could you reiterate again why you think im Mafia? I would like to know the accusation so I can defend myself.
There were a few players that said they didnt think I was the cop and other players pointed out that Mafia could have thought playerboy was the cop. I dont think it really is evidence against me that I was not roleblocked? Would you like to know if i am vanilla town or a role? If that is a bad question to answer just say so!
At this point it's process of elimination.
I'm town, that's one down. Bereft is town, that's two. istandwithmitt, in all his glory, is town #3. onlywonderboy, despite SagaZ' inquiries, is #4.
So I'm left with you, nyxnyxnyx, SagaZ, Balla24, July617 and GGTeMpLaR for the rest.
If we go based purely on post volume/content/wordcount, Balla24 and GGTeMpLaR are the other two town. If we go based on my previous logic, July617 and GGTeMpLaR are the other two town.
A lot of the problem isn't that you're particularly suspicious, although your low post count and the fact that you weren't roleblocked put you under scrutiny, but that you also haven't done much that makes you seem like a town. When I have strong town reads on four people, and fairly probable reads on 2-3 others, you're one of the odd players out.
I guess the question that faces us now is that if we think nyx is the SK (as I think there's a very slim chance he's scum), would we prefer to target him instead of a potential scum read? if he's our safest bet right now at avoiding a mislynch I would be fine with it.
I've given my thoughts onto why nyxnyxnyx is our most likely candidate for a SK. I think if he isn't a SK, he is more likely town than scum due to what seems to be a lack of strong connections with others. The benefit of lynching nyxnyxnyx if he is the SK right now could be a reduction in KP that would hit a town. However, it can go both ways as it's also a possibility that if nyxnyxnyx is the SK and we keep him alive, he could hit a mafia (which is somewhat less likely from a numerical perspective than hitting town, but still possible and would help town immensely).
For this reason, I think nyxnyxnyx is definitely a safe lynch for today, but is he the safest lynch in light of this fact that he could also hit a mafia for us? Maybe he is.
Who do I suggest are viable alternatives to nyxnyxnyx?
Not our confirmed town Seuss (obviously). Not our wildcard istandwithmitt for reasons I gave in the previous post. Not Bereft, who appears to be the most confirmed town based on his play, in addition to reasons I gave in the previous post.
July617 is a possible candidate due to his suspicious behavior and lack of activity, but there are more suspicious players I think with a similar lack of activity. I wouldn't lynch July617 just yet because he's a less likely scum in my eyes. We will have more information to work with regarding him on Day 3 depending on who flips what.
SagaZ has been under a lot of suspicion since the start of the game, and rightly so. I disapprove of his appeal to emotion at the beginning of the large post he made here:
On October 18 2013 15:25 SagaZ wrote: I want to give a big and heartfelt apologize to the town, this day has been dramatically bad and busy. it is almost 3.30 am and i have to wake up at 6 tomorrow. I'm in no condition to make super detailed analysis but I'll give my toughs on what's going on so far. Fortunately I'll be home earlier tomorow.
I find the "preemptive excuse" very suspicious, and further, the connections I drew between SagaZ and July617 lead me to think he is a likely mafia candidate. However, like July617, he isn't at the top of my scum list. We will have more information to work with regarding him on Day 3 depending on who flips what.
onlywonderboy would probably have been in my top 3 lynch candidates for today, however for reasons I gave in the previous post, I think he is off the chopping block for the upcoming lynch. We will have more information to work with regarding him on Day 3 depending on who flips what.
That leaves Balla24 and E00e as the last two possibilities for alternative lynches to nyxnyxnyx.
Balla24/E00e were both in a mafia circle alongside onlywonderboy, however onlywonderboy has made what I believe to be pro-town contributions today that I noted in my previous post. Both Balla24/E00e have given me no such vibe. In fact, the only distinguishing factor between Balla24/E00e for me at this point is the quantity at which they post and give their thoughts.
For this reason, I would suggest that if we don't lynch nyxnyxnyx today, E00e would be the next choice over Balla24. Balla24 is at least posting a decent quantity of posts so we have a lot of information to work with on Day 3 regarding him and his reads, and we will likely continue to gather more information from him on Day 3 if his activity into Day 3 remains consistent. However, E00e is much less revealing as to his reads and reasons for them.
For this reason, while I have strong scum reads on both of them at the moment, I think from a pure information-gathering perspective, Balla24 would be more useful to keep alive than E00e at this point. Further, it has been noted that there is a minor possibility that E00e could be an alternative Serial Killer to nyxnyxnyx (while I don't subscribe to this as being very likely, it shouldn't be discounted as a possibility).
That being said, I think I'm willing to take a risk tonight and keep the likely Serial Killer alive in favor of lynching scum.
#vote E00e
I think nyxnyxnyx is the Serial Killer, and at this point it's likely mafia will want him gone just as much as town will, if not more. In keeping the SK alive for one more night, the Mafia have a target for a potential KP/RB that will be used on SK instead of mafia. This goes both ways, as the SK at this point is probably going to be extremely weary of the fact that no mafia have been killed, and will likely be aiming his KP tonight at those who he thinks to be most likely as mafia.
Tonight is a fairly crucial night for both of these factions to move against each other, and for that reason, it is in our best interest to go for a mafia lynch rather than eliminate the lone enemy of our enemy, who may yet, by mutual interests in reducing mafia numbers, prove useful to us.
Sleeping time is approaching for me (~1.5 hours) and I dont want to be lynched after that because I could not defend myself against new accusations. If im not lynched today we can go over me again it tomorrow. I really dont think you should lynch me over nyx. I was called town many times earlier and nyx as SK seemed like a popular idea on day2 and nyx was nearly lynched day 1 and did not even try to make sense today. Even if you have suspicion on me now it really does not make sense to change who you want to lynch so drastically.
I'd like to ratchet up the pressure on E00e and see what happens in these last hours. I don't agree with GGTeMpLaR on everything, but whether nyxnyxnyx is SK or town we aren't going to learn much from him being the point of pressure.
On October 19 2013 06:35 E00e wrote: Sleeping time is approaching for me (~1.5 hours) and I dont want to be lynched after that because I could not defend myself against new accusations. If im not lynched today we can go over me again it tomorrow. I really dont think you should lynch me over nyx. I was called town many times earlier and nyx as SK seemed like a popular idea on day2 and nyx was nearly lynched day 1 and did not even try to make sense today. Even if you have suspicion on me now it really does not make sense to change who you want to lynch so drastically.
It's not all that drastic. I've had you listed as mafia for most of the day. As I said before, and as GGTeMpLaR sagely pointed out, nyxnyxnyx is an isolated player. If we all bandwagon him now we won't learn much of anything.
Ugh... how the fuck is onlywonderboy being called more useful than me (no offense onlywonderboy)? All he has done is post either agreement with Seuss. Or random very unlikely scum possibilities. Now again, I'm not going to call out scum. I defend myself when asked AND i am questioning other people. The other candidates barely provide reasoning for their actions and their defenses are barely there.
GGTemplar:
Balla24/E00e were both in a mafia circle alongside onlywonderboy, however onlywonderboy has made what I believe to be pro-town contributions today that I noted in my previous post. Both Balla24/E00e have given me no such vibe. In fact, the only distinguishing factor between Balla24/E00e for me at this point is the quantity at which they post and give their thoughts.
What pro town contributions do you think he's made?
On October 19 2013 06:50 Balla24 wrote: Ugh... how the fuck is onlywonderboy being called more useful than me (no offense onlywonderboy)? All he has done is post either agreement with Seuss. Or random very unlikely scum possibilities. Now again, I'm not going to call out scum. I defend myself when asked AND i am questioning other people. The other candidates barely provide reasoning for their actions and their defenses are barely there.
Balla24/E00e were both in a mafia circle alongside onlywonderboy, however onlywonderboy has made what I believe to be pro-town contributions today that I noted in my previous post. Both Balla24/E00e have given me no such vibe. In fact, the only distinguishing factor between Balla24/E00e for me at this point is the quantity at which they post and give their thoughts.
What pro town contributions do you think he's made?
On October 19 2013 06:57 Bereft wrote: I don't think E00e is scum (anymore). I'd be more confident in a Balla or July vote for our mafia candidates, or nyx if we choose to go the SK route.
I don't like July617 for today. I would rather Balla24 or nyxnyxnyx over July617. I've given my reasons.
@GGTemplar You're line of reasoning has me as the most probable mafia read along side Balla. You call me a strong mafia read by the process of elimination but is it really so strong? Even if i am the most probable mafia the actual probability could be low. You even had me as a light town read on day 1. So this is solely based on day 2. Contrary to that you are very very convinced of nyx making nyx a more secure kill.
What is the information you would get out of my death? What will change for you if come out as town or mafia?
I dislike that my defense so far is more about other people than me, maybe I can think of more.
On October 19 2013 06:50 Balla24 wrote: Ugh... how the fuck is onlywonderboy being called more useful than me (no offense onlywonderboy)? All he has done is post either agreement with Seuss. Or random very unlikely scum possibilities. Now again, I'm not going to call out scum. I defend myself when asked AND i am questioning other people. The other candidates barely provide reasoning for their actions and their defenses are barely there.
GGTemplar:
Balla24/E00e were both in a mafia circle alongside onlywonderboy, however onlywonderboy has made what I believe to be pro-town contributions today that I noted in my previous post. Both Balla24/E00e have given me no such vibe. In fact, the only distinguishing factor between Balla24/E00e for me at this point is the quantity at which they post and give their thoughts.
What pro town contributions do you think he's made?
His posts on pg 28/29 read town to me.
What? His best post was in regards to finding SagaZ suspicious, and he immediately dropped his pressure on him. He follows it up with random postulating about possible options. I don't see what you see I guess. He doesn't even share his thoughts on the popular opinions.
FWIW, I do think he is town, but not for those reasons and I've shared my reasons before (i believe him to be town due to my previous experience with him, more of a feeling then any concrete evidence though). I just don't think your theory holds much weight when you ignore my contributions to town.
Also, I read E00e as town. As much shit as I gave him earlier for the cop thing and bandwagoning on me, he defended himself well. Those are the only things I had on him.
If we don't want to lynch nyx, then I'm going to put my vote on July for now (i'm definitely willing to jump back onto nyx still if we can't a consensus going). Oh and if there's ever any doubt about nyx being SK, he left his vote on me and admitted it was completely random before going to sleep.
##unvote ##vote: July617
I'm very weary at GGtemplar as well, but I don't think that's a lynch I can push atm.
July is inactive. I'm hoping for some kind of post from him before deadline so I can get a better read.
On October 19 2013 06:57 Bereft wrote: I don't think E00e is scum (anymore). I'd be more confident in a Balla or July vote for our mafia candidates, or nyx if we choose to go the SK route.
On October 19 2013 06:57 Bereft wrote: I don't think E00e is scum (anymore). I'd be more confident in a Balla or July vote for our mafia candidates, or nyx if we choose to go the SK route.
I don't like July617 for today. I would rather Balla24 or nyxnyxnyx over July617. I've given my reasons.
If you guys prefer I'll swap my vote to Balla24 for pressure/effect.
On October 19 2013 00:36 Balla24 wrote: and wtf man... get off my back... this is the second time you've voted directly after me directly like me with very little other information.
I only wanted to use my vote as a pressure vote and you trying to start a train like this makes it hard.
This looks so forced as a bus. I am more and more sure of the E00e/onlywonderboy/Balla24 circle every day. I am trying to take a step back to make sure I'm not tunnel visioning on this theory so I can be right, but I can't help noticing these connections. Hopefully they are not inspired by my confirmation bias.
On October 19 2013 00:39 onlywonderboy wrote: I'm pretty suspicious of SagaZ at this point. He very well have been busy, but coming back to make one impassioned post doesn't clear him in my eyes. I'm interested to see if he's able to participate in any of the conversations going on around lynching time. That's generally where a lot of useful information comes out. Although it seems we are going pretty much all in on nyx at this point. Which, I don't have an issue voting for nyx (I think he's kind of scummy), but I don't want to start the bandwagon too early when new information may come to light. And of course I disagree with SagaZ's analysis of me. I find it so weird he can say all my posts have been useless when Seuss is claiming they are pretty good, just not a lot of them. I find it interesting they can have such different opinions on my posts.
More intra-circle busing going around? Maybe, maybe not. Just note these interactions between onlywonderboy-E00e-Balla24. . . .
Why does this look "forced as a bus" ? I debunked Ballas claim that I voted after him day 1 too, and what would the purpose for mafia be in having this exchange? I dont take part in the second quote but you have it as an example for my circle.
On October 19 2013 07:12 Balla24 wrote: Oh come on... you've pressured me enough already don't you think. Jesus.
That was only the thumb vices. We haven't used the rack or the iron maiden yet.
Hahaha. You turned me to pissed off to laughing and smiling fast. But still. Fuck you! ^_^
Let's look at July: this guy has less than a page of filter, with a lot of one liners. I'm reading over it now. The only hard stance he has taken was against istandwithmitt, as soon as that vote didn't go through, he backed off. After that he hasn't taken any more. All he's done is tentatively marked people as town.
Remember this fishy post that Bereft originally pointed out (he completely ignored it so far):
On October 18 2013 10:18 July617 wrote: Sorry guys, quick post - long day, need a shower. Bereft that's a good framework of thinking, i'm just asking questions here, but if the same were said about you what's your defense to that?
On October 18 2013 14:29 July617 wrote: Nyx and mitt's voting style is going to screw with town if they are town, and my thought's are that i'm sure they are 70% town, why? Simply because of the bad voting style, would mafia (if they were) vote so poorly?
This is a contradiction in itself. If their voting styles are bad and will screw with town, then they are mafia because they aren't helping town? What? That's like saying "man this guys posting sucks and he's really not pro-town, so he's probably not scum because scum would think better". No. That's not logical. How do you hunt for scum then July, pls explain?
Since then, he hasn't posted at all. It's hard to get a read on him, I know, but at least pressure him instead of me (with your vote, feel free to continue pressuring me without your vote as I'm quite sure i've made it clear I will respond to your pressure).
nyx switched to balla right before he left, so it's possible to move our efforts there. That said I'd rather go nyx over balla if those are our two options. While I sympathize with nyx if he's being honest with his frustration, I'm trying not to cloud my judgement in case he's just using that as a cover. I still like July as an option. He was pressured early and he hasn't really said much as of late (no concrete defense). Also, since Balla has started the official votes on July, if he flips town it means Balla will have to defend himself or be seen as mafia.
That's not true. You never know... he could be lurking right now scared to post. He still needs to make a vote doesn't he? Put your vote on him, you can always change it later. If he's not posting because he doesn't think there's a threat to be lynched then you need to make it clear there IS a threat for him to be lynched.
Fair point, we have three people who don't have votes down with three hours to go. GGTeMpLaR and onlywonderboy are at least around, so I will assume you gentlemen will vote shortly.
##unvote
##vote July617
Once July617 has voted with his reasons, I'll be on hand to swap,
On October 19 2013 07:44 Seuss wrote: Fair point, we have three people who don't have votes down with three hours to go. GGTeMpLaR and onlywonderboy are at least around, so I will assume you gentlemen will vote shortly.
##unvote
##vote July617
Once July617 has voted with his reasons, I'll be on hand to swap,
On October 19 2013 07:44 Seuss wrote: Fair point, we have three people who don't have votes down with three hours to go. GGTeMpLaR and onlywonderboy are at least around, so I will assume you gentlemen will vote shortly.
##unvote
##vote July617
Once July617 has voted with his reasons, I'll be on hand to swap,
GGtemplar put his vote on E00.
wtb vote counter, you're right
That leaves July617 as the only absent vote for now.
For everyone else: This isn't a waiting game. Assume we aren't going to hear from him.
Read filters, share your thoughts. POST!! What do you guys think about the 2 posts i pointed out? Pressure me if you still think i'm scum (which I know lots of people still do). Ask questions!!!~~ There's only ~2 hours left till vote.
Yeah. I certainly wish there was a lot more certainty in the vote, but what are you gonna do? These are the cards we've been dealt at the moment. I've pretty comfortable with July right now, you disagree Suess?
[/b] Can you tell us what will happen to july in the hypotetical case he doesn't show up to vote? Does he get modkilled or reemplaced? If he's going to get modkilled we're wasting our precious lynch.
Wonderboy has reasonable scum reads now that he expressed them, so I won't be voting for him. ##Unvote ##Vote: Nyxnyxnyx Despite the fact that SK might kill a mafia at night, he is still a scum role, and we can't afford a misslynch today. With our votes all over the place and the likehood of july getting modkilled, I would not like mafia to swing our votes to another towny. They'd need very little effort for it. I'll go with safe on this one.
On October 19 2013 08:13 SagaZ wrote: Can you tell us what will happen to july in the hypotetical case he doesn't show up to vote? Does he get modkilled or reemplaced? If he's going to get modkilled we're wasting our precious lynch.
Wonderboy has reasonable scum reads now that he expressed them, so I won't be voting for him. ##Unvote ##Vote: Nyxnyxnyx Despite the fact that SK might kill a mafia at night, he is still a scum role, and we can't afford a misslynch today. With our votes all over the place and the likehood of july getting modkilled, I would not like mafia to swing our votes to another towny. They'd need very little effort for it. I'll go with safe on this one.
If you guys have faith in me we can leave the votes as they stand, and I'll swap to either nyxnyxnyx or Balla24 before the end of the day if July617 doesn't show.
The scary thing is, if July617 is town and gets modkilled the game could easily be over. There are only 6 townies left, and with some bad luck we could lose 4!
If the SK is lynched correctly and Mafia kills a town at night and there are no saves the town will have to lynch correctly every day: Day 3 starts with: 5 town - 3 mafia 4: 4 - 2 5: 3 - 1
If the same happens but July as town gets modkilled the town ALSO has to lynch correctly. Day3 starts with: 4 town - 3 mafia 4: 3 - 2 5: 2 - 1
If there are no medic saves, the two situations are the same.
On October 19 2013 07:02 E00e wrote: @GGTemplar You're line of reasoning has me as the most probable mafia read along side Balla. You call me a strong mafia read by the process of elimination but is it really so strong? Even if i am the most probable mafia the actual probability could be low. You even had me as a light town read on day 1. So this is solely based on day 2. Contrary to that you are very very convinced of nyx making nyx a more secure kill.
What is the information you would get out of my death? What will change for you if come out as town or mafia?
I dislike that my defense so far is more about other people than me, maybe I can think of more.
Strong or not, it's the best I have.
The information from your death would be contingent on the night kills so it's hard to say. You're actually probably right that nyxnyxnyx is a more confirmed kill at this point, I'll grant you that.
On October 19 2013 07:28 E00e wrote: And why am I even in a circle with onlywonderboy? Do we have any kind of suspicious interaction?
The reasons for this are in the large post series I made regarding the likely mafia circles. That being said, I like that you're actually fighting back and being inquisitive. I might come to regret this, but I'm willing to go for the safer lynch today.
##Unvote
Perhaps I am being greedy in hoping that if we leave nyxnyxnyx alive tonight the mafia-SK will target each other, but I would have liked to think it would be a worth-the-risk town victory. However, you're right to point out the risks should we not kill nyxnyxnyx and we end up losing another 2 town tonight. If we don't kill nyxnyxnyx today, it's true we could win big, but we could also lose big. I think it's best for me to be risk-averse here rather than go all-in for the jackpot.
On October 19 2013 07:12 Balla24 wrote: Oh come on... you've pressured me enough already don't you think. Jesus.
That was only the thumb vices. We haven't used the rack or the iron maiden yet.
Hahaha. You turned me to pissed off to laughing and smiling fast. But still. Fuck you! ^_^
Let's look at July: this guy has less than a page of filter, with a lot of one liners. I'm reading over it now. The only hard stance he has taken was against istandwithmitt, as soon as that vote didn't go through, he backed off. After that he hasn't taken any more. All he's done is tentatively marked people as town.
Remember this fishy post that Bereft originally pointed out (he completely ignored it so far):
On October 18 2013 10:18 July617 wrote: Sorry guys, quick post - long day, need a shower. Bereft that's a good framework of thinking, i'm just asking questions here, but if the same were said about you what's your defense to that?
On October 18 2013 14:29 July617 wrote: Nyx and mitt's voting style is going to screw with town if they are town, and my thought's are that i'm sure they are 70% town, why? Simply because of the bad voting style, would mafia (if they were) vote so poorly?
This is a contradiction in itself. If their voting styles are bad and will screw with town, then they are mafia because they aren't helping town? What? That's like saying "man this guys posting sucks and he's really not pro-town, so he's probably not scum because scum would think better". No. That's not logical. How do you hunt for scum then July, pls explain?
Since then, he hasn't posted at all. It's hard to get a read on him, I know, but at least pressure him instead of me (with your vote, feel free to continue pressuring me without your vote as I'm quite sure i've made it clear I will respond to your pressure).
Looking at nyx and Istandwithmitt we've got two player's who seem to like voting with the majority, this is a scary and dangerous thing simply because if mafia have intruded into your and even my own town circles all they'd need to do is post a convincing argument and then the vote get's swayed to 1 mafia and two townies (if indeed they are townies this is not the way to play and you're hurting town more than anything by playing this way.) which leaves two mafia to hide and wait to post to sway the vote. Now the simple option would be to lynch nyx or mitt and see if they flip mafia, and if they do well then we can go from there. But if they flip town, like I think they might be then we're SOL, and I'm not sure what our options as town are then .
We can't afford any more town lynches people, and yes i know they have little to no context and yes the same can be said about me, but these are the only people that we can obviously see as a detriment to the town . That being said Bereft, i'l be voting ohwonderboy, simply because he's seen Istandwithmitt posting and nyx, and yet he still continues to be a yes man . People we dont need yes men ! we need thought out idea's and posts, and if nyx is an SK well then take out the person you think is strong scum and we'll lynch you if we're really convinced you are SK. I do think that SK should be used to town advantage , according to their roll they win when only town is left, so it's to there benefit to take out mafia so Nyx again if you are SK then help the town and kill a mafia tonight .
woops = just realized sagaz' vote switch occurred after umasi's vote count. for some reason i thought it occurred prior.
and now Bereft comes out of left field with a vote count: [DISCLAIMER: this is not an official vote count; if there are any mistakes, i am not accountable :p ]
Are you implying that mitt and nyx are in your town circle? Can you clarify when you refer to "your town circle" that might have been invaded by mafia?
Balla I quoted you because you asked me what i thought , Vote ##onlywonderboy
Yeah, I got it now when I read deeper into what was quoted exactly. I was just confused on what specific part you were responding to but I think I got it now.
On October 19 2013 08:13 SagaZ wrote: Can you tell us what will happen to july in the hypotetical case he doesn't show up to vote? Does he get modkilled or reemplaced? If he's going to get modkilled we're wasting our precious lynch.
Wonderboy has reasonable scum reads now that he expressed them, so I won't be voting for him. ##Unvote ##Vote: Nyxnyxnyx Despite the fact that SK might kill a mafia at night, he is still a scum role, and we can't afford a misslynch today. With our votes all over the place and the likehood of july getting modkilled, I would not like mafia to swing our votes to another towny. They'd need very little effort for it. I'll go with safe on this one.
[/b]
Now that July617 won't get modkilled, do you still think we should lynch nyxnyxnyx?
On October 19 2013 09:13 July617 wrote: EBWOP
Balla I quoted you because you asked me what i thought , Vote ##onlywonderboy
Would you like to reconsider your vote, seeing as how you are slated to be lynched in an hour.
so the reason I retracted my scum read of E00e is because I honestly thought he was cop. reading through his filter with that mindset, I thought he'd checked nyx and got back an SK read, based on his certain word choices (can quote them when I'm home tonight or tmr). obviously now with this flip that town credibility is shot.
I tried so save nyx, I really did. I was totally right that he felt that same way I did my first game. So that means there is still a potential SK out there, so who is the main suspect now?
Wow that sucks, but you are somewhat at fault yourself nyx. I am sorry Bereft, it was not my intention to look cop. Please post the quotes so I know what caused it. Seuss if you think you and Bereft will die, shouldnt Bereft post his role and what they did every night?
There's no reason to think that Bereft is town because he was roleblocked. There can be town roleblockers too it might clear him from potentially being an SK (which isn't certain) but the way he knew which kill was the mafia kill at start of day is a huge slip & I can't believe you guys lynched anyone else.
@mitt, it's purely guesswork. given what we know, it seemed like the obvious choice for mafia. (a) an aggressive, active townie who is holding people accountable, or (b) a player who'd gone inactive and who had doubt cast upon his actions.
also, fwiw, i'm a vanilla townie so i'm not operating under any additional information than the rest of the town.
On October 17 2013 12:15 Bereft wrote: my gut reaction is mafia killed Odin and SK killed playerboy. but I need to go to bed so I'll read their filters tomorrow...
I had the same gut reaction when I saw the result of the night actions. I'm obviously scum.
On October 20 2013 07:49 Bereft wrote: also, damn, this thread has gone inactive.
I think everyone's just waiting for the axe to fall at this point. Like I said earlier, we weren't going to learn much by killing nyxnyxnyx. Right now everything depends on the night's activities.
I'm around too. I was away for most of the night, i'm mostly re-evaluating my reads. I think I have a solid read on SK but i'm still piecing it together.
I'd like to wait a little longer. But while you're here. Can you explain again your thought process on the OWB vote? Why did you think that was useful?
Suess dying was inevitable, he was an easy target for the mafia tonight so that isn't too shocking. If we're already talking about the next lynch, I still say we pressure July super hard. I was confidant in my vote on him and nothing has really changed my mind there. It would take a lot to convince me he's neither scum or SK.
On October 20 2013 13:02 Balla24 wrote: I'd like to wait a little longer. But while you're here. Can you explain again your thought process on the OWB vote? Why did you think that was useful?
It's simple my thought was I didn't want nyx to die, I never wanted him to die but we lynched him because he was bad town . Same reason we wanted to lynch mitt, again more bad town . We can't lynch bad town anymore, we've still got an SK and mafia running around, the last thing we want to do is get bogged down in more bad town lynching .
On October 20 2013 13:02 Balla24 wrote: I'd like to wait a little longer. But while you're here. Can you explain again your thought process on the OWB vote? Why did you think that was useful?
It's simple my thought was I didn't want nyx to die, I never wanted him to die but we lynched him because he was bad town . Same reason we wanted to lynch mitt, again more bad town . We can't lynch bad town anymore, we've still got an SK and mafia running around, the last thing we want to do is get bogged down in more bad town lynching .
So why didn't you try harder to defend him? Can you expand your read on OWB please?
We couldn't afford to lynch town yesterday, we got lucky because SK had to be in our favor with the mafia #s. If he hit town we are dead.
On October 20 2013 13:03 onlywonderboy wrote: Suess dying was inevitable, he was an easy target for the mafia tonight so that isn't too shocking. If we're already talking about the next lynch, I still say we pressure July super hard. I was confidant in my vote on him and nothing has really changed my mind there. It would take a lot to convince me he's neither scum or SK.
Don't you feel that if you were to read him as town from the start, his play last night certainly fits the profile? I don't know... i'm kind of changing my mind. Again, I've been re-evaluating all of my reads and I'm not just yet ready to share. I was seriously expecting nyx to flip SK (well after I saw Seuss switched obviously).
On October 20 2013 13:02 Balla24 wrote: I'd like to wait a little longer. But while you're here. Can you explain again your thought process on the OWB vote? Why did you think that was useful?
It's simple my thought was I didn't want nyx to die, I never wanted him to die but we lynched him because he was bad town . Same reason we wanted to lynch mitt, again more bad town . We can't lynch bad town anymore, we've still got an SK and mafia running around, the last thing we want to do is get bogged down in more bad town lynching .
So why didn't you try harder to defend him? Can you expand your read on OWB please?
We couldn't afford to lynch town yesterday, we got lucky because SK had to be in our favor with the mafia #s. If he hit town we are dead.
I just think it's not bad town play it's him actually being mafia, his bad town play doesn't sit right .
On October 20 2013 13:02 Balla24 wrote: I'd like to wait a little longer. But while you're here. Can you explain again your thought process on the OWB vote? Why did you think that was useful?
It's simple my thought was I didn't want nyx to die, I never wanted him to die but we lynched him because he was bad town . Same reason we wanted to lynch mitt, again more bad town . We can't lynch bad town anymore, we've still got an SK and mafia running around, the last thing we want to do is get bogged down in more bad town lynching .
So why didn't you try harder to defend him? Can you expand your read on OWB please?
We couldn't afford to lynch town yesterday, we got lucky because SK had to be in our favor with the mafia #s. If he hit town we are dead.
I just think it's not bad town play it's him actually being mafia, his bad town play doesn't sit right .
On October 20 2013 13:02 Balla24 wrote: I'd like to wait a little longer. But while you're here. Can you explain again your thought process on the OWB vote? Why did you think that was useful?
It's simple my thought was I didn't want nyx to die, I never wanted him to die but we lynched him because he was bad town . Same reason we wanted to lynch mitt, again more bad town . We can't lynch bad town anymore, we've still got an SK and mafia running around, the last thing we want to do is get bogged down in more bad town lynching .
So why didn't you try harder to defend him? Can you expand your read on OWB please?
We couldn't afford to lynch town yesterday, we got lucky because SK had to be in our favor with the mafia #s. If he hit town we are dead.
I just think it's not bad town play it's him actually being mafia, his bad town play doesn't sit right .
But why? Quote me some things, anything.
His posting doesn't make sense . " Yeah. I certainly wish there was a lot more certainty in the vote, but what are you gonna do?" < Doesn't that sound a little strange almost like he's throwing his hands up in an attempt to look like town ?
Alright. I'm ready to make my case on OWB as SK. Other candidates include istandwithmitt, but his low post count and relative lack of care for the game make me immediately not want to look at him. When nyx flipped it made me completly re-think all my reads, because I was SOOO certain he was sk.
Point #1: Here is what initially tipped me off:
On October 19 2013 11:36 onlywonderboy wrote: I tried so save nyx, I really did. I was totally right that he felt that same way I did my first game. So that means there is still a potential SK out there, so who is the main suspect now?
A post like this might fit other players, but with my read on OWB this doesn't fit at all. This is some serious information bias, as he's been setting this up for a while to appear more town. He says he tried to save nyx... yet... he didn't.... not at all... in fact:
On October 19 2013 08:18 onlywonderboy wrote: That's fine by me. I'm fine with going for nyx. If july gets mod killer and flips town we can focus on balla.
Was posted right before july "defended" himself. This is the OPPOSITE of trying to save nyx... if this ain't a slip then I don't know what is.
He left his vote on July at the end of the day, but he it didn't really seem like he cared who got lynch one way or another, even though he claims to have tried to save nyx.
Here's another post that seems out of character for him:
On October 20 2013 12:43 Bereft wrote: and good job, serial killer!
For real. SK hitting mafia is a godsend for the town.
Point #2: The SK kill N2 is GGTemplar
While yes, GGTemplar is mafia. I'm quite sure we can get more information out of this kill then just "SK wanted to kill a mafia". On day2, GGTemplar was literally the only one to mention OWB as a possible scum (I didn't check E00 but I don't really recall him accusing anybody but me). The only other person was July, but since july is under suspicion, killing him wouldn't be a good play for SK. Notice OWB's reaction to his posts that mention him by looking at owb's filter:
NADA.
He doesn't even blink. I believe that SK was less trying to target a mafia then he was trying to get the suspicions quiet. If he was trying to kill a mafia, then why wouldn't he have targetted myself or July, who were both on the verge of getting lynched whereas GGTemplar had 0 votes. You'd have to be very confident in your own reads to make a shot like that. The only person who was confident on GGTemplar was istandwithmitt, which is interesting to note if someone wants to make a case for mitt.
Point #3: Deflection
On October 18 2013 13:02 onlywonderboy wrote: Damn, I really wish I had more to add (I know people have been calling out my lack of posts), but I'm just not coming up with much. nyx and july still seem scummy (or SK-y) and haven't really defended themselves much so not much has really changed there. Still, even if one of them is mafia, that still leaves two more of them out there.
Everyone seems to think Odin was the mafia kill and playerboy was the SK kill, but I'm not so sure. If the SK goes for Odin (who seems like the obvious mafia target), they are able to put a lot of pressure on july and nyx basically for free. It doesn't matter to him whether or not they are town or mafia, this kill increased suspicion even more and may lead to a lynch. Of course, if either july or nyx are actually mafia, it would make sense for them to kill someone else to take some of the heat away from themselves. Waking up and finding odin dead would certainly hurt this plan.
At this point, everybody was pretty sold with good reasoning on why Odin/playerboy were the mafia/sk kill respectively, IIRC. This seems like a feeble attempt to try to get people to consider more situations then what was reality. I say this because he drops it relatively quickly after Seuss refutes one of his points.
On October 18 2013 03:14 Balla24 wrote: It is not technically your fault. Playerboy should not have reacted the way he did. There's no way around that.
I don't see how you think this is insignificant though... I like how you are reacting but then again you should be willing to talk about it if you have nothing to hide. I don't have any further questions about it though. So I on't be pushing it further unless it becomes relevant again.
There is no vigi. Vigi is a straight up idiot if he shot either odin or playerboy.
You're under suspicion on playerboy because of the sole fact that you are the one who brought up the cop thing. You're right though, I should take a step back. ANYBODY who realized playerboy was cop based on his reaction could have killed him.
How do we know there's no vig? I'm rereading the role and it says they "may" choose a player to kill, it's possible they just didn't use their power.
As a soft-vigi claim originally, but the fact that there has still been no vigi kill makes me skeptical of that.
Let me know if my logic is flawed or something, but with this..
On October 19 2013 11:36 onlywonderboy wrote: I tried so save nyx, I really did. I was totally right that he felt that same way I did my first game. So that means there is still a potential SK out there, so who is the main suspect now?
What kind of townie would ask the town "who is the main suspect for sk now"? When a presumed scum flips townie, I immediately re-think my reads and form my own opinions. This seems to me like he's not even thinking about who the possible SK is because he knows who it is. He wants to know whether or not there is another SK target he can push, and if there is any suspicion on him so he can decide how to play. Weird WEIRD question.
GGTemplar had Odin (confirmed town later),Bereft as a strong town read which makes me think Bereft is not Mafia. Templar also said there are 1 or 2 mafia in the Vonthin voters which makes me think there is at most 1 mafia there preferably 0. Templar tried to kill me day2 and put me in circles with various other people. I like to think that in those circles there was a Mafia so that when I am lynched day2 and turn out town the other people in that circle are thought of as town.
I think July is the 2nd mafia. I got that feeling from reading July's and GGTemplar's posts and I cant deliver strong evidence right now. Maybe someone else can confirm/deny.
Yo unconfirmed townies: Now is the time you HAVE to talk.
If I was bereft, the most confirmed townie (even though istandwithmitt is still pushing that lol).. i'm just going to sit back and let everyone talk so I can make my opinion on them. Make his job easier.
On October 20 2013 23:42 E00e wrote: GGTemplar had Odin (confirmed town later),Bereft as a strong town read which makes me think Bereft is not Mafia. Templar also said there are 1 or 2 mafia in the Vonthin voters which makes me think there is at most 1 mafia there preferably 0. Templar tried to kill me day2 and put me in circles with various other people. I like to think that in those circles there was a Mafia so that when I am lynched day2 and turn out town the other people in that circle are thought of as town.
I think July is the 2nd mafia. I got that feeling from reading July's and GGTemplar's posts and I cant deliver strong evidence right now. Maybe someone else can confirm/deny.
Who's the third mafia then? I really had a scum read on July, but if he is mafia, who the hell is the other? My only guess was that it was you E00e. Balla and wonderboy voted for him in past days. Bereft is town, mitt is either town or SK. So when you say july is mafia, are you suggesting mafia bussing each others? Is that what you are doing right now? Realizing that July is in bad position and now that GGTemplar is dead you are trying to cover your track?
On October 20 2013 15:23 Balla24 wrote: Alright. I'm ready to make my case on OWB as SK. Other candidates include istandwithmitt, but his low post count and relative lack of care for the game make me immediately not want to look at him. When nyx flipped it made me completly re-think all my reads, because I was SOOO certain he was sk.
On October 19 2013 11:36 onlywonderboy wrote: I tried so save nyx, I really did. I was totally right that he felt that same way I did my first game. So that means there is still a potential SK out there, so who is the main suspect now?
A post like this might fit other players, but with my read on OWB this doesn't fit at all. This is some serious information bias, as he's been setting this up for a while to appear more town. He says he tried to save nyx... yet... he didn't.... not at all... in fact:
On October 19 2013 08:18 onlywonderboy wrote: That's fine by me. I'm fine with going for nyx. If july gets mod killer and flips town we can focus on balla.
Was posted right before july "defended" himself. This is the OPPOSITE of trying to save nyx... if this ain't a slip then I don't know what is.
He left his vote on July at the end of the day, but he it didn't really seem like he cared who got lynch one way or another, even though he claims to have tried to save nyx.
Here's another post that seems out of character for him:
On October 20 2013 12:43 Bereft wrote: and good job, serial killer!
For real. SK hitting mafia is a godsend for the town.
Point #2: The SK kill N2 is GGTemplar
While yes, GGTemplar is mafia. I'm quite sure we can get more information out of this kill then just "SK wanted to kill a mafia". On day2, GGTemplar was literally the only one to mention OWB as a possible scum (I didn't check E00 but I don't really recall him accusing anybody but me). The only other person was July, but since july is under suspicion, killing him wouldn't be a good play for SK. Notice OWB's reaction to his posts that mention him by looking at owb's filter:
NADA.
He doesn't even blink. I believe that SK was less trying to target a mafia then he was trying to get the suspicions quiet. If he was trying to kill a mafia, then why wouldn't he have targetted myself or July, who were both on the verge of getting lynched whereas GGTemplar had 0 votes. You'd have to be very confident in your own reads to make a shot like that. The only person who was confident on GGTemplar was istandwithmitt, which is interesting to note if someone wants to make a case for mitt.
On October 18 2013 13:02 onlywonderboy wrote: Damn, I really wish I had more to add (I know people have been calling out my lack of posts), but I'm just not coming up with much. nyx and july still seem scummy (or SK-y) and haven't really defended themselves much so not much has really changed there. Still, even if one of them is mafia, that still leaves two more of them out there.
Everyone seems to think Odin was the mafia kill and playerboy was the SK kill, but I'm not so sure. If the SK goes for Odin (who seems like the obvious mafia target), they are able to put a lot of pressure on july and nyx basically for free. It doesn't matter to him whether or not they are town or mafia, this kill increased suspicion even more and may lead to a lynch. Of course, if either july or nyx are actually mafia, it would make sense for them to kill someone else to take some of the heat away from themselves. Waking up and finding odin dead would certainly hurt this plan.
At this point, everybody was pretty sold with good reasoning on why Odin/playerboy were the mafia/sk kill respectively, IIRC. This seems like a feeble attempt to try to get people to consider more situations then what was reality. I say this because he drops it relatively quickly after Seuss refutes one of his points.
On October 18 2013 03:14 Balla24 wrote: It is not technically your fault. Playerboy should not have reacted the way he did. There's no way around that.
I don't see how you think this is insignificant though... I like how you are reacting but then again you should be willing to talk about it if you have nothing to hide. I don't have any further questions about it though. So I on't be pushing it further unless it becomes relevant again.
There is no vigi. Vigi is a straight up idiot if he shot either odin or playerboy.
You're under suspicion on playerboy because of the sole fact that you are the one who brought up the cop thing. You're right though, I should take a step back. ANYBODY who realized playerboy was cop based on his reaction could have killed him.
How do we know there's no vig? I'm rereading the role and it says they "may" choose a player to kill, it's possible they just didn't use their power.
As a soft-vigi claim originally, but the fact that there has still been no vigi kill makes me skeptical of that.
Let me know if my logic is flawed or something, but with this..
##vote: onlywonderboy
Well, guess I have some explaining to do in your eyes.
A post like this might fit other players, but with my read on OWB this doesn't fit at all. This is some serious information bias, as he's been setting this up for a while to appear more town. He says he tried to save nyx... yet... he didn't.... not at all... in fact:
In regards to this whole nyx situation, I made it clear I didn't really want to vote nyx. I sympathized with his frustration of the game and I was right that it was very much how I felt in my first game. I made this clear by voting for July. I said I was okay with voting nyx but all I meant by that was I was fine with that town going for nyx if that's what they really wanted. You said I'm "trying to appear town," but of course I am! I still have to prove I'm town and people have been doubting me all game long.
Point two is incredibly weak. One person mentioned me as a potential scum while the rest of the players seemed to have a town read on me. Why bother responding to this one post? If other people had discussed it more I would have felt the need to defend myself, but at the time it seemed incredibly random and not worth mentioning.
Point three doesn't say much either. People were asking me to try and provide points of discussion and this theory happened to fall flat. Nothing more.
On October 21 2013 03:56 E00e wrote: I had you (SagaZ) or Balla as 3rd Mafia but im less sure about that.
Oh really now? From the people that are here, almost everyone had a vote on July at some point, or posts pointing him as a very probable scum. In fact, everyone but you until your last post.
What I think is going on here is this: You are trying to take advantage of the town being fairly innactive to push a vote on what appears to you as a "easy lynch". You see it that way because he was very close of getting lynched yesterday and gave a crappy defense. But as pointed, the only way July as mafia works is if there is some heavy mafia voting on mafia action going on.
This is the first accusation you make in this whole game, baring some weak nyx vote bandwagon. It is completely different from your other posts which all have been all about defending yourself. You come trying to make some sort of mafia play and push a weak town. But your accusation doesn't make any sense with how the game evolved, and you overlooked that because as mafia you knew all along that nyx was town. I think your "accusation" on July is a big mafia slip.
@SagaZ Actually I tried get town to be less inactive b y posting something that is discussable. To make my post less pushy I did not put my vote yet to show that I wanted to talk about this. Everything in your post you could have said before I told you who I thought was the 3rd Mafia, why did you not post it earlier?
Also it there really does not have to be HEAVY Mafia on Mafa action (yummy) going on. For example you SagaZ voted for July once with the reason that their posts had nothing worthwhile and you were the only one voting for them. After a few posts you switched your vote. I dont think this qualifies as throwing fellow mafia under the bus and it was not a dangerous vote either and I dont want something like this remove the possibility of you being mafia.
I was curious to see if pointing what I tough was flawed in your theory could get more stuff from you. But you apparently stick on it. You still believe July is the 2nd mafia and the third one went on him at some point. But you also point that the bussing might not have been as hard as I previously tough. At this point, I still read your statement as a slip, but I will not comment further on the subject, July should be the one defending himself. So vote stands until I hear more from others. Please post people, game was cool and active but since night 2 no one is saying anything anymore =(
I still think we should focus our efforts on july. He was under heavy suspicion during the the last lynch and has done nothing since then to legitimize himself as town other than a weak mafia read on me. At least Ballas sk theory on me took some effort.
wow, are there really only 7 of us left?? nice, that gives me 50/50 odds to hit mafia or the SK. mitt and July, right now we really need to vote together as a cohesive unit.
mitt, I understand you still have lingering concerns towards me which I am happy to assuage in whatever way possible. just ask.
my belief is that our SK lies in either OWB or Balla.
@Ohwonnderboy we've been through this with everyone else who's accused me of mafia, yeah i have a weak defense, I know that and that's been clear the whole game, if I was mafia why wouldn't I be dead by now . I was practically lynched the night before and every night we continue to rehash my defense's as if you don't already know the answer to them, that they're weak and I'm one of the few town left here trying to help win this game, but that wont happen if we keep killing town just on hunches alone. We saw where that got us and we can't afford to screw up now . If the SK has the same feelings that we all do about my suspicious-ness then why wouldn't he end that suspicion and just kill me ? Why keep me alive what's the point .
Surviving two lynches simply because other town players did a poor job of defending themselves is NOT a good defense. You could either be scum or SK, but I am almost 100% sure you are not a town player. Maybe if you had contributed something of value, but there's nothing. People called me out and I made an effort to make claims/start discussion even if there were some issues with them. All you've done is say I'm mafia "because." If we don't lynch July we are making a mistake.
Just read his log, there's not a single useful town post in there. Other then him randomly focusing me even when most player thought I was town (before Balla's SK theory).
Also I realize there is nothing wrong with making a case against someone even if most people think they are town, but his reasoning is/was weak and is just him repeating the same thing over and over.
Anyone else around? Now is the time to be chatting with such an important vote coming up. Especially those who haven't voted yet, hearing your input may be real important.
On October 22 2013 03:44 onlywonderboy wrote: Also I realize there is nothing wrong with making a case against someone even if most people think they are town, but his reasoning is/was weak and is just him repeating the same thing over and over.
Yes there is Did you not see nyx's death ? And Istandwithmitt's almost death ? Building cases against town's is to the detriment of the town itself, you're giving suspicion where there is none, and that's how you end up lynching townies when they have no business being lynched at all .
On October 22 2013 03:44 onlywonderboy wrote: Also I realize there is nothing wrong with making a case against someone even if most people think they are town, but his reasoning is/was weak and is just him repeating the same thing over and over.
Yes there is Did you not see nyx's death ? And Istandwithmitt's almost death ? Building cases against town's is to the detriment of the town itself, you're giving suspicion where there is none, and that's how you end up lynching townies when they have no business being lynched at all .
Dude that's the whole point of the game. Scum will build cases on people regardless of whether they are town or not (bussing) to appear more town.
Sorry I've been away.
Bereft, can you explain why you think SK is either me or owb?
Also, has anybody considered mitt as SK like I asked about in my post? He could certainly be SK: playerboy went hard on him and then he voted for playerboy, he went after GGTemplar on day2 and now he's dead. Possible trend.
On October 22 2013 03:44 onlywonderboy wrote: Also I realize there is nothing wrong with making a case against someone even if most people think they are town, but his reasoning is/was weak and is just him repeating the same thing over and over.
Yes there is Did you not see nyx's death ? And Istandwithmitt's almost death ? Building cases against town's is to the detriment of the town itself, you're giving suspicion where there is none, and that's how you end up lynching townies when they have no business being lynched at all .
Dude that's the whole point of the game. Scum will build cases on people regardless of whether they are town or not (bussing) to appear more town.
Sorry I've been away.
Bereft, can you explain why you think SK is either me or owb?
Also, has anybody considered mitt as SK like I asked about in my post? He could certainly be SK: playerboy went hard on him and then he voted for playerboy, he went after GGTemplar on day2 and now he's dead. Possible trend.
On October 22 2013 06:48 Balla24 wrote: Well neither did you last night, to be fair... people in this game have been absolutely piss poor at building cases this game.
But yes, July, the fact that he's not building a case makes me more suspicious of him as SK.
Do you not consider it building a case because I'm not pulling specific quotes? I've been building my case against July in these last couple pages. I could quote random posts where he's talking out of his ass and not contributing anything, but I considering that's what almost all of his posts are I figured just saying to read his filter would be enough to back up my claim.
On October 22 2013 03:44 onlywonderboy wrote: Also I realize there is nothing wrong with making a case against someone even if most people think they are town, but his reasoning is/was weak and is just him repeating the same thing over and over.
Yes there is Did you not see nyx's death ? And Istandwithmitt's almost death ? Building cases against town's is to the detriment of the town itself, you're giving suspicion where there is none, and that's how you end up lynching townies when they have no business being lynched at all .
All I meant was if you have a good case as to why someone is scum even if most people think they are town your should present it. You did not do this in this case.
Nah. I just said that to get a reaction out of you. It's impossibly hard to build a case on July from his post content. Look at his interaction with ggtemplar and vote record as well as night actions. Is there anything incriminating there?
On October 22 2013 05:09 E00e wrote: I feel bad for the already dead players that we didnt do much this day .
hey same I feel so bad I got so busy these past 2 days >< if only they had left Seuss and taken me! oh cruel world.
I'm still at work, but ima be frantically reading filters on my phone. if there's at least one other townie who can be around at the deadline we'll have a shot to not get rolled by town.
[QUOTE]On October 22 2013 07:47 Bereft wrote: [QUOTE]On October 22 2013 05:09 E00e wrote: if there's at least one other townie who can be around at the deadline we'll have a shot to not get rolled by town.[/QUOTE] wat
There's nothing incriminating with ggtemplar, but he could very well be the SK and not mafia. There's nothing concrete but there's certainly a lot of random posts that don't help the town. SK has the luxury of being able to just sort of hang out and let the mafia/town destroy themselves. You've picked apart a lot of my posts trying to make me out as the SK, but that was me just trying to contribute and apparently failing. Meanwhile July has just been watching on the sideline trying to swing the vote towards a townie.
On October 22 2013 07:49 onlywonderboy wrote: There's nothing incriminating with ggtemplar, but he could very well be the SK and not mafia. There's nothing concrete but there's certainly a lot of random posts that don't help the town. SK has the luxury of being able to just sort of hang out and let the mafia/town destroy themselves. You've picked apart a lot of my posts trying to make me out as the SK, but that was me just trying to contribute and apparently failing. Meanwhile July has just been watching on the sideline trying to swing the vote towards a townie.
No. If he's SK he wouldn't care who gets voted. Unless he knew that "townie" was actually mafia and he needs to even up the mafia/town ratio. However, he wasn't trying to lynch anybody yesterday as it was already pretty much assured that someone was going to be lynched, so putting his vote on you could possibly be a safe way to say "I don't care who gets lynched".
Nyx had a lot of random posts that don't help the town either and he was actually town. I don't really see how this situation is any different than Nyx's. This time you're not defending him though you're going for him.
I sympathized with nyx's frustration, but I didn't have a sound argument for him not being mafia, it was just a gut feeling. One that happened to be right.
I think I've accepted that I'm not going to change your mind Balla, but if any other town players around please read my points on July and consider voting for him instead of Saga or Balla. I'm not the only person who was suspicious of him, Odin was pressuring him hard and Suess had him on his potential scum/SK list. It's not like I'm a crazy person here and the only one who thinks he's suspicious.
Why don't you have that gut feeling for July though? It's like just cause he's not mentioning the fact that it's his first game and he feels weak because of it you don't have that feeling.
I would argue that you should have had that feeling for July and NOT nyx. Let's look at their posting:
Nyx - Nyx sheeped onto Odin then Seuss/Bereft - Claimed he didn't have any reads on anybody all game because he didn't know how to. - Had non-existant defenses
July - Is making his own very weak reads - Has very weak defenses - Is not sheeping.
July looks WAY more like a bad, inexperienced town player than nyx did. - Has weak defenses
I think nyx's bad play was him not knowing what to do, July's seems more like he's trying to look like a town player and just failing. I felt much more like nyx in my first game and was why I sympathized with him. I mean, it could have easily been a mafia ploy, but his frustration ended up being genuine.
Nyx lynch made perfect sense because we tough he was SK. July had several accusations on him in the past days that always put him back to suspicion. I don't really believe mafia casting suspicion onto each others is what happened, especially in day 1 and 2. I am extremely uncomfortable about how strong and easy this July vote train is looking. Bereft and mitt what do you guys think?
His was genuine because I now know he flipped town . It was dumb of me to defend him simply based on his impassioned cries, I could have easily have been being tricked. I refuse to take that same risk again. Your play has lead me to believe you are not town and I'm not going to back down again based on someone simply saying "hey, I'm not scum/sk."
On October 22 2013 08:33 onlywonderboy wrote: I think nyx's bad play was him not knowing what to do, July's seems more like he's trying to look like a town player and just failing. I felt much more like nyx in my first game and was why I sympathized with him. I mean, it could have easily been a mafia ploy, but his frustration ended up being genuine.
Really? Because to me it doesn't look at all like how you were playing. You at least tried to defend yourself. You came up with your own reads.
I was ok with it when you first brought up how you sympathized with it but I don't know... it just doesn't sit right with me now. I wish others would chime in though on this case, because I feel like i'm tunnel visioning.
On October 22 2013 08:33 onlywonderboy wrote: I think nyx's bad play was him not knowing what to do, July's seems more like he's trying to look like a town player and just failing. I felt much more like nyx in my first game and was why I sympathized with him. I mean, it could have easily been a mafia ploy, but his frustration ended up being genuine.
Really? Because to me it doesn't look at all like how you were playing. You at least tried to defend yourself. You came up with your own reads.
I was ok with it when you first brought up how you sympathized with it but I don't know... it just doesn't sit right with me now. I wish others would chime in though on this case, because I feel like i'm tunnel visioning.
It's how I felt though. I attempted to make reads but the entire time I felt like I was just digging my own grave and I felt futile trying to defend myself. I didn't shut down like nyx did, but I was almost at that point.
Onlywonderboy, since you are pushing for july after all, who do you think is the third mafia with him and GGTemplar? Or your biggest suspects if you don't know exactly.
I'm leaning towards him being SK. He didn't really have any interactions with GGTemplar so it's hard to judge there. Honestly his lack of interaction with most players is why I think he's SK over mafia.
While I accept the vote on myself and like SagaZ do not like how this vote train is going The only ones on the chopping block are E00e , only and balla , with that said even if i wasn't to be lynched tonight I will most likely die from the SK , why the SK is keeping us around is beyond me, but I know i've been dodging lynch after lynch and come night I probably wont be saved if there are still any blues left.
So with that said : While i'd like to vote for onlywonderboy, i still think he's just playing frustrated town, look we're all frustrated here but we can't let that cloud our reasoning , lynching townies is a mistake people .
Bereft, july and mitt, please tell me you guys are around. Don't let mafia take control, town need to do something. E00e is mafia it's so obvious. Look at that smooth July train taking advantage of the silence of the town. Look at the extreme defensiveness of his posts. It makes so much sense.
OK first things first: if you are town you should be rallying around me or else making a strong case why you think we should vote a separate way. Mitt/July, I'm looking at you.
right now, I'm reading Sagaz and E00e as GGTemplar's scum buddies with Balla and OWB as SK as previously stated. right now I am comfortable with putting my vote on E00e unless he wants to claim a blue role (please tell me he hasn't gone to bed).
I'm typing from a phone so pardon the lack of quotes but I build my case on the following:
his posting has been completely irrational for someone who's town.
in his very first post he chooses to single out 2 things:
1. saying GG's theory crafting or whatever you call it is useful and pro town- it wasn't. I don't see why GG's post would've stood out at all to anyone at that point except for being substance less. I remember this seeming bizarre to me when I first read it.
2. the cop "soft claim". the only reason to do this as town is (a) you're a newb cop or (b) idk, you are absolutely forward thinking and want to rally around the cop preemptively.
I am confident at this point that it isn't (a). I do not think it can be (b) either because notice how he never brings it up again except to say "he may or may not be" but doesn't want to specify. if you are not the cop and you've given the impression that you are to fellow townies, why would you not flat out deny it unless you are self sacrificial and want to confuse mafia from other targets such as Seuss? I think it was pretty obvious that wasn't going to happen, so it makes no sense unless you want to confuse the town.
apologies for the ineloquent case - I will be home and at a computer in 20 mins approx. ##Unvote ##Vote: E00e
On October 22 2013 09:35 onlywonderboy wrote: I'm leaning towards him being SK. He didn't really have any interactions with GGTemplar so it's hard to judge there. Honestly his lack of interaction with most players is why I think he's SK over mafia.
you're saying you think July is the SK???
how do you explain his complete lack of self preservation during yesterday's lynch?? you do realize survival is the SK's one and only win con??
I just don't think he gave himself much to work with in terms of defending himself. He's been quiet all game long and doesn't have any pro town actions to fall back on because he was content to lurk instead.
out of E00e, OWB, SagaZ, and yourself, 3 of you are anti-town and 1 of you is town. i don't trust any of you, but at present i mistrust SagaZ the least.
I mean it's not out of the realm of possibility they are going for a sacrificial vote in order to gain town reliability in the coming day. I mean, it's incredibly risky with the SK still on the lose, but it's a possibility.
It was truly sad that the modkill resulted in this, in fact most of the possible outcomes for the last night's actions ended up in vote race situations due to that.
Mafia shot Bereft, OWB shot July, July shot SagaZ.
On October 23 2013 11:04 WaveofShadow wrote: OWB y u no listen to your coaaaach
But defs GGs all arounds.
I mean if Mitt hadn't afk'd town had a chance to win. I was pretty sure mitt was town and balla's SK post on me made me suspicious of him being possible scum. I mean, in the end the deciding vote would have been on mitt.
So I 100% knew July was SK because he survived my kill and I wasn't RB'd, so I had the chance to role claim and take care of July no problem, but I was so certain I could get people to vote for July I sat on it. Balla's masterful defense of July making people doubt too much. Balla stop being good mafia.
Haha... I was pretty sure you were Vigi during day2... but then we RB'ed Bereft again and no roles came out so we assumed Bereft was cop/vigi and he was deflecting well (he was asking about the cop a lot)... turns out nobody came out because it would have been silly haha...
On October 23 2013 11:30 onlywonderboy wrote: Although that said town would have probably been pretty fucked considering how almost everyone thought Balla was town.
Nahh duude Bereft and Seuss were all over me even after I feel like i defended myself well :/
On October 23 2013 11:30 onlywonderboy wrote: Although that said town would have probably been pretty fucked considering how almost everyone thought Balla was town.
Nahh duude Bereft and Seuss were all over me even after I feel like i defended myself well :/
I guess that's true. And some of your credibility might have gone away when I flipped vig.
On October 23 2013 11:31 Balla24 wrote: Haha... I was pretty sure you were Vigi during day2... but then we RB'ed Bereft again and no roles came out so we assumed Bereft was cop/vigi and he was deflecting well (he was asking about the cop a lot)... turns out nobody came out because it would have been silly haha...
ohh, no wonder you shot me instead of OWB! i was actually wondering if i should create confusion in the thread during the last night phase to throw you guys off, but then i decided fck it, i'd probably screw things up even more.
the funny thing is that right up till we endgamed, i didn't think OWB could be my last fellow townie. if we had ended up in a LYLO situation with me, OWB, july, i would've lost it for town.
If you want your coaching qt to be seen, post it yourself. I know seuss is cool with it. OWB didn't shoot night one, shot july N2, and N3. No notification was sent to july regarding his veteran status being down.
Personal comments on the game: I think that the mafia team was playing pretty well all the way till GGtemplar went and died, but he was on a lot of peoples 'probably town' lists. Balla24 and SagaZ picked up the slack pretty well, and did a good job of appearing like they were trying to be active and figure things out among an inactive town. I think the game would have been even more scum favored if seuss had been shot N1, or if OWB had vigged one of the lynchbaity townies, because they'd just get in the way. At least, I personally would have shot to get rid of ???marks, even at the risk of killing town. Then again, I'm not very experienced myself, and hosting doesn't give me a bell of clarity :<<
Lonemeow posted setup properly. Lonemeow did a lot of things properly! Everyone should fucking love Lonemeow for being so on point with the vote counts, made my job of hunting qts and answering questions really simple!
Thanks everyone for playing and go sign up for number 50!
If you want your coaching qt to be seen, post it yourself. I know seuss is cool with it. OWB didn't shoot night one, shot july N2, and N3. No notification was sent to july regarding his veteran status being down.
Personal comments on the game: I think that the mafia team was playing pretty well all the way till GGtemplar went and died, but he was on a lot of peoples 'probably town' lists. Balla24 and SagaZ picked up the slack pretty well, and did a good job of appearing like they were trying to be active and figure things out among an inactive town. I think the game would have been even more scum favored if seuss had been shot N1, or if OWB had vigged one of the lynchbaity townies, because they'd just get in the way. At least, I personally would have shot to get rid of ???marks, even at the risk of killing town. Then again, I'm not very experienced myself, and hosting doesn't give me a bell of clarity :<<
Lonemeow posted setup properly. Lonemeow did a lot of things properly! Everyone should fucking love Lonemeow for being so on point with the vote counts, made my job of hunting qts and answering questions really simple!
Thanks everyone for playing and go sign up for number 50!
Skipping the night one kill was something Wave and I talked about. I almost killed nyx or July, but that's when I was trying to put pressure on Odin. GOD IF ONLY I HAVE LUNCHED JULY lol.
lol sweet! Alright you're a pretty smart guy so I won't really assume you need anything in specific, I'll just leave you with a couple basic tips. Number one priorities as town are to establish yourself as townie (ie innocent) and to HUNT SCUM!
lol sweet! Alright you're a pretty smart guy so I won't really assume you need anything in specific, I'll just leave you with a couple basic tips. Number one priorities as town are to establish yourself as townie (ie innocent) and to HUNT SCUM!
If you want your coaching qt to be seen, post it yourself. I know seuss is cool with it. OWB didn't shoot night one, shot july N2, and N3. No notification was sent to july regarding his veteran status being down.
Personal comments on the game: I think that the mafia team was playing pretty well all the way till GGtemplar went and died, but he was on a lot of peoples 'probably town' lists. Balla24 and SagaZ picked up the slack pretty well, and did a good job of appearing like they were trying to be active and figure things out among an inactive town. I think the game would have been even more scum favored if seuss had been shot N1, or if OWB had vigged one of the lynchbaity townies, because they'd just get in the way. At least, I personally would have shot to get rid of ???marks, even at the risk of killing town. Then again, I'm not very experienced myself, and hosting doesn't give me a bell of clarity :<<
Lonemeow posted setup properly. Lonemeow did a lot of things properly! Everyone should fucking love Lonemeow for being so on point with the vote counts, made my job of hunting qts and answering questions really simple!
Thanks everyone for playing and go sign up for number 50!
Veteran Status ?
GG to all, Sorry if my play style wasn't to people's liking , I played the game the way I thought would win and I had fun doing it . I hope to do some more mafia games so everyone can see me as a legit town rather than what I was this game .
lol sweet! Alright you're a pretty smart guy so I won't really assume you need anything in specific, I'll just leave you with a couple basic tips. Number one priorities as town are to establish yourself as townie (ie innocent) and to HUNT SCUM!
lol sweet! Alright you're a pretty smart guy so I won't really assume you need anything in specific, I'll just leave you with a couple basic tips. Number one priorities as town are to establish yourself as townie (ie innocent) and to HUNT SCUM!
If you want your coaching qt to be seen, post it yourself. I know seuss is cool with it. OWB didn't shoot night one, shot july N2, and N3. No notification was sent to july regarding his veteran status being down.
Personal comments on the game: I think that the mafia team was playing pretty well all the way till GGtemplar went and died, but he was on a lot of peoples 'probably town' lists. Balla24 and SagaZ picked up the slack pretty well, and did a good job of appearing like they were trying to be active and figure things out among an inactive town. I think the game would have been even more scum favored if seuss had been shot N1, or if OWB had vigged one of the lynchbaity townies, because they'd just get in the way. At least, I personally would have shot to get rid of ???marks, even at the risk of killing town. Then again, I'm not very experienced myself, and hosting doesn't give me a bell of clarity :<<
Lonemeow posted setup properly. Lonemeow did a lot of things properly! Everyone should fucking love Lonemeow for being so on point with the vote counts, made my job of hunting qts and answering questions really simple!
Thanks everyone for playing and go sign up for number 50!
Veteran Status ?
GG to all, Sorry if my play style wasn't to people's liking , I played the game the way I thought would win and I had fun doing it . I hope to do some more mafia games so everyone can see me as a legit town rather than what I was this game .
Vet status being your 1 shot bulletproof, that is. A veteran is someone who's power lets them survive a single kp at night, it's what you chose instead of cop immunity
On October 23 2013 11:30 onlywonderboy wrote: Although that said town would have probably been pretty fucked considering how almost everyone thought Balla was town.
How can you even think this, balla was so fucking obviously scum T_T
I would like to take all credit for july's excellent play. Even though he's the only guy in this entire game who lost, I consider him the moral victor here
e: also "stop being a guy pretending to be a doctor and instead be a doctor" is amazing advice!
On October 23 2013 16:58 Mocsta wrote: funny as in hilarious
u had another post worthy of a motivation meme higher up too haha
is it this one:
there's going to be a temptation to do nothing because it feels like you're winning, but you're really not winning. you're not winning until you've won
On October 23 2013 11:30 onlywonderboy wrote: Although that said town would have probably been pretty fucked considering how almost everyone thought Balla was town.
How can you even think this, balla was so fucking obviously scum T_T
I mean, Day 3 it sure seemed that way. Everyone was listening him when he was trying to discredit my claim on July. I was too reliant on my "town" status. Once Suess died I lost my biggest cheerleader haha.
On October 23 2013 16:32 Blazinghand wrote: I would like to take all credit for july's excellent play. Even though he's the only guy in this entire game who lost, I consider him the moral victor here
e: also "stop being a guy pretending to be a doctor and instead be a doctor" is amazing advice!
Is there an award for moral victory?
Thanks Coach ^_^ , having never played SK before you gave me allot of great advice and i couldn't have made it this far without you .
My hat's off to you blazing, thanks again for coaching me.
That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
Also sorry I got modkilled. The rule that you have to vote every day is really dumb so I'm not that sorry. I was posting that day & was busy before the deadline but I still got modkilled? I don't know what that's set up to avoid because it's obviously not just people who don't post.
An okay game mod should learn how to call games in the end & fix modkill rule & maybe it would be better than okay.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
That's not how the win conditions were worded. Additionally, your suggested win condition does not work with a Serial Killer.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: Also sorry I got modkilled. The rule that you have to vote every day is really dumb so I'm not that sorry. I was posting that day & was busy before the deadline but I still got modkilled? I don't know what that's set up to avoid because it's obviously not just people who don't post.
Voting is required because we don't want the choice to abstain to be a tactical decision for the mafia team. I think 48 hours is a more than reasonable amount of time. If you anticipate that you may be busy at the deadline, then it is suggested that you vote before the deadline.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
That's not how the win conditions were worded. Additionally, your suggested win condition does not work with a Serial Killer.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: Also sorry I got modkilled. The rule that you have to vote every day is really dumb so I'm not that sorry. I was posting that day & was busy before the deadline but I still got modkilled? I don't know what that's set up to avoid because it's obviously not just people who don't post.
Voting is required because we don't want the choice to abstain to be a tactical decision for the mafia team. I think 48 hours is a more than reasonable amount of time. If you anticipate that you may be busy at the deadline, then it is suggested that you vote before the deadline.
Does SK not win if he's in a 1:1 situation then? Because that's dumb.
Also I don't see any point in deterring a mafia player from abstaining. It's not like it's a good decision or something town can't see. It would be one thing to modkill someone for not posting during a day but in this situation you modkilled someone for forgetting to vote & that was stupid.
You don't have to take my criticism but all I'm trying to do is help the mod run a better a game in the future.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
On October 23 2013 22:24 istandwithmitt wrote: Also I don't see any point in deterring a mafia player from abstaining. It's not like it's a good decision or something town can't see.
Suppose my scum buddy is a lynch candidate and I've expressed suspicion of him in the thread. If I vote for him, he will be lynched. I can be around at the deadline and decide not to vote, pretending to be afk. Now suppose you are busy at the deadline and are unable to vote. There is no way for the town to tell whether or not I'm telling the truth about being around and they receive little information in a game that may only last three cycles. There is no way to distinguish my intentional no-vote from your accidental no-vote.
There is a grey area between whether or not a single no-vote should be a modkillable offense. Some hosts will wait until you break a rule twice, others will enforce it right away. While I don't think the voting rule should change, we should probably try to be more consistent with how it is punished.
On October 23 2013 22:24 istandwithmitt wrote: Does SK not win if he's in a 1:1 situation then? Because that's dumb.
That's a reasonable concern in a setup with a non-bulletproof serial killer. It appears that the hosts decided that losing your bulletproof power (either by night hit or choosing investigative immunity) would force the Serial Killer to lynch or kill off the mafia/town vig before a 1:1 occurs.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
Technically, it would have been a vote race because of the tiebreaker rule, and the winner would've been the one that dropped a vote on the other first. Since vote races are dumb we decided we prefer to end the game with a draw.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: Also sorry I got modkilled. The rule that you have to vote every day is really dumb so I'm not that sorry. I was posting that day & was busy before the deadline but I still got modkilled? I don't know what that's set up to avoid because it's obviously not just people who don't post.
However dumb you think it is, it was the rule. You don't like the rules, then don't play.
Personally, I believe the rule makes sense from a game theory perspective, but that's not the issue here.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: An okay game mod should learn how to call games in the end & fix modkill rule & maybe it would be better than okay.
I'm glad you appreciate the effort we put into this...
On October 23 2013 22:36 kitaman27 wrote: There is a grey area between whether or not a single no-vote should be a modkillable offense. Some hosts will wait until you break a rule twice, others will enforce it right away. While I don't think the voting rule should change, we should probably try to be more consistent with how it is punished.
If we consistently let single no-voters get by with a warning, that becomes a strategic option in itself (although one of questionable morality)...
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
Technically, it would have been a vote race because of the tiebreaker rule, and the winner would've been the one that dropped a vote on the other first. Since vote races are dumb we decided we prefer to end the game with a draw.
No, the game is a draw because owb can shoot at the mafia.
If owb didn't have a gun, then it would be a mafia win.
lol sweet! Alright you're a pretty smart guy so I won't really assume you need anything in specific, I'll just leave you with a couple basic tips. Number one priorities as town are to establish yourself as townie (ie innocent) and to HUNT SCUM!
lol sweet! Alright you're a pretty smart guy so I won't really assume you need anything in specific, I'll just leave you with a couple basic tips. Number one priorities as town are to establish yourself as townie (ie innocent) and to HUNT SCUM!
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
Not very. In a 2:1 situation, town could vote, mislynch, & have the other townie killed off resulting in a mafia victory. All things equal that's a 67% chance of happening & resulting in a scum win. If they no lynch & one of them is killed off the next day, the vote race (while dumb) results in a 50% chance of a scum win.
That's why 1:1 situations are resolved as scum wins. Not to mention that usually in a 1:1 situation it wouldn't be possible to have a majority vote but I think we were playing plurality which is usually also bad.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
Not very. In a 2:1 situation, town could vote, mislynch, & have the other townie killed off resulting in a mafia victory. All things equal that's a 67% chance of happening & resulting in a scum win. If they no lynch & one of them is killed off the next day, the vote race (while dumb) results in a 50% chance of a scum win.
That's why 1:1 situations are resolved as scum wins. Not to mention that usually in a 1:1 situation it wouldn't be possible to have a majority vote but I think we were playing plurality which is usually also bad.
this is a unique situation because both town and mafia have 1 kp.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
Technically, it would have been a vote race because of the tiebreaker rule, and the winner would've been the one that dropped a vote on the other first. Since vote races are dumb we decided we prefer to end the game with a draw.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: Also sorry I got modkilled. The rule that you have to vote every day is really dumb so I'm not that sorry. I was posting that day & was busy before the deadline but I still got modkilled? I don't know what that's set up to avoid because it's obviously not just people who don't post.
However dumb you think it is, it was the rule. You don't like the rules, then don't play.
Personally, I believe the rule makes sense from a game theory perspective, but that's not the issue here.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: An okay game mod should learn how to call games in the end & fix modkill rule & maybe it would be better than okay.
I'm glad you appreciate the effort we put into this...
On October 23 2013 22:36 kitaman27 wrote: There is a grey area between whether or not a single no-vote should be a modkillable offense. Some hosts will wait until you break a rule twice, others will enforce it right away. While I don't think the voting rule should change, we should probably try to be more consistent with how it is punished.
If we consistently let single no-voters get by with a warning, that becomes a strategic option in itself (although one of questionable morality)...
I realize it was a rule which is why I said it was a "dumb rule" & not a "dumb mod." Abstaining is a silly thing to deter especially since the reason seems to be that it's a "scum tactic." You wouldn't deter bussing so why does it make sense to deter abstaining? Both can confuse the town but apparently one is legitimate & one illegitimate in a game based on lying.. okay..
It just seemed silly to modkill someone who was active in the game clear up to a deadline & then modkilling them for something inconsequential.
It is the mod's decision & if that's a common rule around here, everyone should consider reconsidering it.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
Not very. In a 2:1 situation, town could vote, mislynch, & have the other townie killed off resulting in a mafia victory. All things equal that's a 67% chance of happening & resulting in a scum win. If they no lynch & one of them is killed off the next day, the vote race (while dumb) results in a 50% chance of a scum win.
That's why 1:1 situations are resolved as scum wins. Not to mention that usually in a 1:1 situation it wouldn't be possible to have a majority vote but I think we were playing plurality which is usually also bad.
The 1:1 situation this game is a special situation because the townie has a gun
pretty sure i already explained this. I think we're done here.
On October 23 2013 23:09 WaveofShadow wrote: More often than not I find that rule more visibly affects people who fuck off for most of a game and don't care enough to vote.
In which case I support it wholeheartedly.
A better rule would be not posting for a whole day = modkill then in my imo
On October 23 2013 23:09 WaveofShadow wrote: More often than not I find that rule more visibly affects people who fuck off for most of a game and don't care enough to vote.
In which case I support it wholeheartedly.
A better rule would be not posting for a whole day = modkill then in my imo
That rule already exists, and it's not enough imo. (Ingame day rather than 24h period is the current rule).
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
Not very. In a 2:1 situation, town could vote, mislynch, & have the other townie killed off resulting in a mafia victory. All things equal that's a 67% chance of happening & resulting in a scum win. If they no lynch & one of them is killed off the next day, the vote race (while dumb) results in a 50% chance of a scum win.
That's why 1:1 situations are resolved as scum wins. Not to mention that usually in a 1:1 situation it wouldn't be possible to have a majority vote but I think we were playing plurality which is usually also bad.
The 1:1 situation this game is a special situation because the townie has a gun
pretty sure i already explained this. I think we're done here.
That's still dumb. Town has a 33% chance of winning, tying, or losing in LYLO lmao. In MYLO, it's a 25% chance of winning , 50% chance of a vote race, or a 25% chance of a tie. Allowing vote racing OR calling things a tie "because a townie has a gun" is dumb & favors town way over scum.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
Not very. In a 2:1 situation, town could vote, mislynch, & have the other townie killed off resulting in a mafia victory. All things equal that's a 67% chance of happening & resulting in a scum win. If they no lynch & one of them is killed off the next day, the vote race (while dumb) results in a 50% chance of a scum win.
That's why 1:1 situations are resolved as scum wins. Not to mention that usually in a 1:1 situation it wouldn't be possible to have a majority vote but I think we were playing plurality which is usually also bad.
The 1:1 situation this game is a special situation because the townie has a gun
pretty sure i already explained this. I think we're done here.
That's still dumb. Town has a 33% chance of winning, tying, or losing in LYLO lmao. In MYLO, it's a 25% chance of winning , 50% chance of a vote race, or a 25% chance of a tie. Allowing vote racing OR calling things a tie "because a townie has a gun" is dumb & favors town way over scum.
It's nothing to do with "favouring"
You disallow vote-races because that relies on when people are physically online, which is an outside-of-game commodity/chance
Therefore it goes to night actions, where both players have guns to shoot each other with, which they obviously will. It's really, really, really simple.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
Not very. In a 2:1 situation, town could vote, mislynch, & have the other townie killed off resulting in a mafia victory. All things equal that's a 67% chance of happening & resulting in a scum win. If they no lynch & one of them is killed off the next day, the vote race (while dumb) results in a 50% chance of a scum win.
That's why 1:1 situations are resolved as scum wins. Not to mention that usually in a 1:1 situation it wouldn't be possible to have a majority vote but I think we were playing plurality which is usually also bad.
The 1:1 situation this game is a special situation because the townie has a gun
pretty sure i already explained this. I think we're done here.
That's still dumb. Town has a 33% chance of winning, tying, or losing in LYLO lmao. In MYLO, it's a 25% chance of winning , 50% chance of a vote race, or a 25% chance of a tie. Allowing vote racing OR calling things a tie "because a townie has a gun" is dumb & favors town way over scum.
It's nothing to do with "favouring"
You disallow vote-races because that relies on when people are physically online, which is an outside-of-game commodity/chance
Therefore it goes to night actions, where both players have guns to shoot each other with, which they obviously will. It's really, really, really simple.
In LYNCH OR LOSE, town has a 33% chance of winning, tying, or losing. With no vig, they have a 50% chance of tying by not lynching.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
Not very. In a 2:1 situation, town could vote, mislynch, & have the other townie killed off resulting in a mafia victory. All things equal that's a 67% chance of happening & resulting in a scum win. If they no lynch & one of them is killed off the next day, the vote race (while dumb) results in a 50% chance of a scum win.
That's why 1:1 situations are resolved as scum wins. Not to mention that usually in a 1:1 situation it wouldn't be possible to have a majority vote but I think we were playing plurality which is usually also bad.
The 1:1 situation this game is a special situation because the townie has a gun
pretty sure i already explained this. I think we're done here.
That's still dumb. Town has a 33% chance of winning, tying, or losing in LYLO lmao. In MYLO, it's a 25% chance of winning , 50% chance of a vote race, or a 25% chance of a tie. Allowing vote racing OR calling things a tie "because a townie has a gun" is dumb & favors town way over scum.
It's nothing to do with "favouring"
You disallow vote-races because that relies on when people are physically online, which is an outside-of-game commodity/chance
Therefore it goes to night actions, where both players have guns to shoot each other with, which they obviously will. It's really, really, really simple.
In LYNCH OR LOSE, town has a 33% chance of winning, tying, or losing. With no vig, they have a 50% chance of tying by not lynching.
Town loses 100% of the time by not lynching if they have no vigi - it goes to 1-1, no voting, then mafia kills the townie at night
Once again, town having a vigi alive at the end of the game is a unique situation.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
I actually posted this then edited it out because I realised I was wrong.
owb was a multi-shot vigilante and so could have shot mafia at the time he was shot by mafia.
People worry way too much about the exact wording in the OP, when using common sense to work out what would happen is almost always the right way.
The only reason there's the # of mafia = # of town rule is to rule out stupid vote races based on who's online when.
Exactly. If its 2:1 town:mafia, then town isn't actually encouraged to vote for mafia nor is mafia to kill the following night in the case of a NL. That should 100% be a mafia victory.
What are you talking about? Town is obviously encouraged to vote in a 2:1 situation, otherwise a 2:1 situation becomes a 1:1 situation.
Literally the *only* situation that mafia does NOT win in this 1:1 situation is the EXACT situation that occurred in this game - where the remaining townie has bullets to shoot at the mafia.
Not very. In a 2:1 situation, town could vote, mislynch, & have the other townie killed off resulting in a mafia victory. All things equal that's a 67% chance of happening & resulting in a scum win. If they no lynch & one of them is killed off the next day, the vote race (while dumb) results in a 50% chance of a scum win.
That's why 1:1 situations are resolved as scum wins. Not to mention that usually in a 1:1 situation it wouldn't be possible to have a majority vote but I think we were playing plurality which is usually also bad.
The 1:1 situation this game is a special situation because the townie has a gun
pretty sure i already explained this. I think we're done here.
That's still dumb. Town has a 33% chance of winning, tying, or losing in LYLO lmao. In MYLO, it's a 25% chance of winning , 50% chance of a vote race, or a 25% chance of a tie. Allowing vote racing OR calling things a tie "because a townie has a gun" is dumb & favors town way over scum.
It's nothing to do with "favouring"
You disallow vote-races because that relies on when people are physically online, which is an outside-of-game commodity/chance
Therefore it goes to night actions, where both players have guns to shoot each other with, which they obviously will. It's really, really, really simple.
In LYNCH OR LOSE, town has a 33% chance of winning, tying, or losing. With no vig, they have a 50% chance of tying by not lynching.
Town loses 100% of the time by not lynching if they have no vigi - it goes to 1-1, no voting, then mafia kills the townie at night
Once again, town having a vigi alive at the end of the game is a unique situation.
Whether the game should have ended in a mafia victory or draw.
YOU LOST !
As an important aside: The people commenting on this game that did not play int his game are pretty experienced fellows when it comes to mafia. Many have hosted several games and do know what they are talking about.
Anyways, hope you enjoyed playing, and theres another newbie with signups ready, if you have not joined yet.
should've used my coach more. I guess I was held back by the fact that I wanted him to critique my specific reads, but I didn't think he was allowed to. the whole game I kinda struggled with conviction/self-doubt cuz I haven't successfully lynched scum in any of my games yet lolol.
if anybody who was following the game wants to give me some feedback, it's always welcome.
On October 23 2013 23:37 Mocsta wrote: I Stand With Mitt
This conversation is pointless.
Whether the game should have ended in a mafia victory or draw.
YOU LOST !
As an important aside: The people commenting on this game that did not play int his game are pretty experienced fellows when it comes to mafia. Many have hosted several games and do know what they are talking about.
Anyways, hope you enjoyed playing, and theres another newbie with signups ready, if you have not joined yet.
Yeah I know I lost but the rest of the town think they tied lol
(1) barely used coaching (2) failed using the most powerful weapon a townie has - their vote (3) chose to participate in the game in a manner which would alienate you
But do not despair; there are many things you can improve upon, as long as you want to improve. \
On October 24 2013 00:00 Mocsta wrote: Well, town got a victory.
I am saying "YOU LOST"
(1) barely used coaching (2) failed using the most powerful weapon a townie has - their vote (3) chose to participate in the game in a manner which would alienate you
But do not despair; there are many things you can improve upon, as long as you want to improve. \
Town didn't get a victory. They "got a tie."
It's fine if you all want to be rude to me but I'm just trying to put out some constructive criticisms so you can have better games in the future. If you don't like it you can respond to my actual criticism rather than attacking me personally.
On October 24 2013 00:00 Mocsta wrote: Well, town got a victory.
I am saying "YOU LOST"
(1) barely used coaching (2) failed using the most powerful weapon a townie has - their vote (3) chose to participate in the game in a manner which would alienate you
But do not despair; there are many things you can improve upon, as long as you want to improve. \
Town didn't get a victory. They "got a tie."
It's fine if you all want to be rude to me but I'm just trying to put out some constructive criticisms so you can have better games in the future. If you don't like it you can respond to my actual criticism rather than attacking me personally.
Whose being rude?
You clearly do not have thick skin.
According to this: you want to share constructive criticism, but will not reciprocate by receiving?
But do not despair; there are many things you can improve upon, as long as you want to improve. \
If you play long enough, you'll eventually learn the dark art of fake-claiming power roles to save mafia and kill actual power roles! <3
Its called playing the long con baby.
I have precedent now when I get the awesome red roll.
Really, I thought the precedent was that if in future game I get to point in the game when I am unsure who to lynch out of you and someone else (who is scummiest). Then as you have set the precedent "called playing the long con baby." and you just might do that again this game to get even more precedent... then I might just as well lynch you in the first place. (less risk)
The long con knife has two edges and cuts both ways. If you want a meta of being able to get away with such plays then you also have the meta that leaving you alive risks you making such plays again.
On October 23 2013 22:00 istandwithmitt wrote: That should be a mafia win not a draw. If number of mafia = number of other players during a day that's the end of the game for mafia.
Also sorry I got modkilled. The rule that you have to vote every day is really dumb so I'm not that sorry. I was posting that day & was busy before the deadline but I still got modkilled? I don't know what that's set up to avoid because it's obviously not just people who don't post.
An okay game mod should learn how to call games in the end & fix modkill rule & maybe it would be better than okay.
blink blink
Hint: OP says what rules are before the game, better is to read them decide if you like them then in or not.
On October 24 2013 00:33 marvellosity wrote: Axle you need to play some more mafia.
While that might be what I need...
not at the moment. Life says no. Life is pretty grumpy with me just reading not playing. The next thing I am going to do is read the last champions game again with all the flips. I need to work out how to streamline how I play a game so I can do it without it consuming my life.
edit2: Well maybe I wont read that game. edit: this one looks like its worth reading too.
On October 24 2013 00:33 marvellosity wrote: Axle you need to play some more mafia.
While that might be what I need...
not at the moment. Life says no. Life is pretty grumpy with me just reading not playing. The next thing I am going to do is read the last champions game again with all the flips. I need to work out how to streamline how I play a game so I can do it without it consuming my life.
On October 24 2013 00:00 Mocsta wrote: Well, town got a victory.
I am saying "YOU LOST"
(1) barely used coaching (2) failed using the most powerful weapon a townie has - their vote (3) chose to participate in the game in a manner which would alienate you
But do not despair; there are many things you can improve upon, as long as you want to improve. \
Town didn't get a victory. They "got a tie."
It's fine if you all want to be rude to me but I'm just trying to put out some constructive criticisms so you can have better games in the future. If you don't like it you can respond to my actual criticism rather than attacking me personally.
Whose being rude?
You clearly do not have thick skin.
According to this: you want to share constructive criticism, but will not reciprocate by receiving?
did anyone else crack up when Seuss called mitt a "social pariah" or was that just me? (think this happened day 1)
On October 24 2013 00:00 Mocsta wrote: Well, town got a victory.
I am saying "YOU LOST"
(1) barely used coaching (2) failed using the most powerful weapon a townie has - their vote (3) chose to participate in the game in a manner which would alienate you
But do not despair; there are many things you can improve upon, as long as you want to improve. \
Town didn't get a victory. They "got a tie."
It's fine if you all want to be rude to me but I'm just trying to put out some constructive criticisms so you can have better games in the future. If you don't like it you can respond to my actual criticism rather than attacking me personally.
Whose being rude?
You clearly do not have thick skin.
According to this: you want to share constructive criticism, but will not reciprocate by receiving?
did anyone else crack up when Seuss called mitt a "social pariah" or was that just me? (think this happened day 1)
On October 24 2013 00:33 marvellosity wrote: Axle you need to play some more mafia.
While that might be what I need...
not at the moment. Life says no. Life is pretty grumpy with me just reading not playing. The next thing I am going to do is read the last champions game again with all the flips. I need to work out how to streamline how I play a game so I can do it without it consuming my life.
To think, that I used to think you were a smurf.
/Mind-Blown.
Well that would be silly, I told you what I was when I arrived.
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
I was afraid the entire game this post early on would come back to bite me lol
On October 24 2013 00:00 Mocsta wrote: Well, town got a victory.
I am saying "YOU LOST"
(1) barely used coaching (2) failed using the most powerful weapon a townie has - their vote (3) chose to participate in the game in a manner which would alienate you
But do not despair; there are many things you can improve upon, as long as you want to improve. \
Town didn't get a victory. They "got a tie."
It's fine if you all want to be rude to me but I'm just trying to put out some constructive criticisms so you can have better games in the future. If you don't like it you can respond to my actual criticism rather than attacking me personally.
Whose being rude?
You clearly do not have thick skin.
According to this: you want to share constructive criticism, but will not reciprocate by receiving?
You're responding to my criticisms of the game by being critical of me. Like I said, that's fine but don't pretend like I'm wrong because you didn't like the way I played.
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
I was afraid the entire game this post early on would come back to bite me lol
SK why did you shoot me btw?
I had you as "OMG MAFIA WTF" in my notes first half of D1, mostly for that post.
On October 24 2013 00:00 Mocsta wrote: Well, town got a victory.
I am saying "YOU LOST"
(1) barely used coaching (2) failed using the most powerful weapon a townie has - their vote (3) chose to participate in the game in a manner which would alienate you
But do not despair; there are many things you can improve upon, as long as you want to improve. \
Town didn't get a victory. They "got a tie."
It's fine if you all want to be rude to me but I'm just trying to put out some constructive criticisms so you can have better games in the future. If you don't like it you can respond to my actual criticism rather than attacking me personally.
Whose being rude?
You clearly do not have thick skin.
According to this: you want to share constructive criticism, but will not reciprocate by receiving?
You're responding to my criticisms of the game by being critical of me. Like I said, that's fine but don't pretend like I'm wrong because you didn't like the way I played.
No one's taking your criticism seriously because you barely played the game in the first place.
In fact, you're pretty much the embodiment of why rules like that exist.
On October 24 2013 04:14 Blazinghand wrote: ITT: istandwithmitt is mad he didn't read the op
I suggest you join normal games instead. You played probably the best D1 from all the people. There is a reason players like you and me are being "hated". You made clear cases and managed to say same things in 10 words other people used 500 words on. In addition to that, the cases were spot on (not necessarily 100% correct as on scum, but correct in what you said). You nearly got lynched for it (lol).
I would suggest, if you are not able to be around (or don't know if you will), place your vote at the start of the day. It's a rule and whether or not you like it the rules should be followed.
The 1:1 with vigi scenario, i can understand your point of view, i can understand the other one too. I dunno which is better - as i think rules should be followed - why skip a day phase then if mafia does not win by equaling the town? If people make those kinda rules then there should be a vote race, it's a rule that whoever has the most votes first gets lynched in case of a tie. Nowhere does it say in some scenarios the day phase is skipped. I get the point and i agree with it, but it's pointless to discuss it, draw has been declared already.
On October 24 2013 04:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: istandwithmitt:
I suggest you join normal games instead. You played probably the best D1 from all the people. There is a reason players like you and me are being "hated". You made clear cases and managed to say same things in 10 words other people used 500 words on. In addition to that, the cases were spot on (not necessarily 100% correct as on scum, but correct in what you said). You nearly got lynched for it (lol).
I would suggest, if you are not able to be around (or don't know if you will), place your vote at the start of the day. It's a rule and whether or not you like it the rules should be followed.
The 1:1 with vigi scenario, i can understand your point of view, i can understand the other one too. I dunno which is better - as i think rules should be followed - why skip a day phase then if mafia does not win by equaling the town? If people make those kinda rules then there should be a vote race, it's a rule that whoever has the most votes first gets lynched in case of a tie. Nowhere does it say in some scenarios the day phase is skipped. I get the point and i agree with it, but it's pointless to discuss it, draw has been declared already.
^^ very true... fluffy long posts are awfully good for mafia to hide in. If it weren't for his inactivity and not answering other people at all he would have been the scariest town player from a mafia perspective. Too bad it was too easy to flip his attitude/activity on him to the point where most people were just ignoring him.
He nailed 2/3 mafia on D1. In fucking 5 posts. Just because he does not make long fluff posts does not make him bad or scum. There was no case on him, except for people "not liking him". How is he supposed to defend himself?
Everyone failed to read what he actually said because they didn't like him...
On October 24 2013 04:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: istandwithmitt:
I suggest you join normal games instead. You played probably the best D1 from all the people.
On October 24 2013 04:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: He nailed 2/3 mafia on D1. In fucking 5 posts. Just because he does not make long fluff posts does not make him bad or scum. There was no case on him, except for people "not liking him". How is he supposed to defend himself?
Everyone failed to read what he actually said because they didn't like him...
On October 24 2013 04:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: He nailed 2/3 mafia on D1. In fucking 5 posts. Just because he does not make long fluff posts does not make him bad or scum. There was no case on him, except for people "not liking him". How is he supposed to defend himself?
Everyone failed to read what he actually said because they didn't like him...
I'm not disagreeing that he was concise and correct... it was just super easy to discredit him because of his attitude..
On October 24 2013 04:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: He nailed 2/3 mafia on D1. In fucking 5 posts. Just because he does not make long fluff posts does not make him bad or scum. There was no case on him, except for people "not liking him". How is he supposed to defend himself?
Everyone failed to read what he actually said because they didn't like him...
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
I can quote the posts if you really want to. But what he said about you and SagaZ was 100% correct. I would have lynched you for it if i was in the game.
On October 24 2013 04:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: He nailed 2/3 mafia on D1. In fucking 5 posts. Just because he does not make long fluff posts does not make him bad or scum. There was no case on him, except for people "not liking him". How is he supposed to defend himself?
Everyone failed to read what he actually said because they didn't like him...
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
I can quote the posts if you really want to. But what he said about you and SagaZ was 100% correct. I would have lynched you for it if i was in the game.
having correct reads is probably one of the least important mafia skills
On October 24 2013 04:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: He nailed 2/3 mafia on D1. In fucking 5 posts. Just because he does not make long fluff posts does not make him bad or scum. There was no case on him, except for people "not liking him". How is he supposed to defend himself?
Everyone failed to read what he actually said because they didn't like him...
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
I can quote the posts if you really want to. But what he said about you and SagaZ was 100% correct. I would have lynched you for it if i was in the game.
having correct reads is probably one of the least important mafia skills
I know, that's why i said in obs QT that he fails in explaining himself and convincing others. Too bad nowadays "convincing someone" comes with big walls of quotes or with your name being something like marv or Palmar. That's bad.
See, this is one of the best analysis posts in this game whether or not Mitt is right. Should encourage discussion on the matter. I personally noticed another thing in that post he quoted. GGTemplar was basically already working under mindset where he shuts down Mitt, caals him bad and unproductive, instead of inviting him to the discussion by asking him about the specifics of his reads and contributing towards them. He was basically doing the exact same (by his definition anti-town) thing he thinks Mitt was in his posts (which was imo not the case at all). ___________________- 109 iamperfectionPerson was signed in when posted 10-16-2013 12:55 PM ET (US) he picks up his ball and says he is going home every time he posts. ___________________ 108 raynpelikoneet 10-16-2013 12:49 PM ET (US) And i think that post would be scummy if it wasn't a newbie game. :p Can anyone tell me why? ^_^ ___________________ 107 raynpelikoneet 10-16-2013 12:39 PM ET (US) /m105: Actually he is not bad imo. He's just failing to take an approach that suits this game (aka. the current playerbase). On D1 he had clear scumreads with reasoning, if someone doesn't quote every single scummy post and tell "this thing here, it's scummy because XYZ" it does not make them bad. Obviousöly he is failing to explain himself to the current playerbase and that's why he is not doing well, but i can see his intentions behind his posts.
It's usually not what people post, it's why they post what they do. Newer players tend to just look at the content and what the post in itself says. If you learn to look "beyond the content" you find town/mafia more effectively.
Let's take an example; Mitt's last post is "Can anyone tell me why this post is scummy?". There is a clear motivation in this post. He is challenging fellow players to look into the post he quoted and tell him what they think of it. It's clear that he has already formed some sort of tell from that post. He is probably looking for people who think alike him. I see that as a town!motivated action, while the text he wrote in the post in itself says very little.
On October 24 2013 05:08 Blazinghand wrote: i never make walls of quotes and i'm highly convincing. i just scream "follow me in glorious shenannies" and it works out
clearly you need to try that strategy
lol -.- you have not played with me 6 months ago.. :p
seriously though if the tl meta demands that you slap pants on your head and bury your opponent under a mountain of quotes to convince people, then that's what you do. if it demands you come up with shitty policy reasons or write about his meta or fakeclaim cop to lynch him then unclaim afterwards, that's what you do. "convincing people" is a subjective task.
a good example might be this. Suppose everyone at the start of every game would write "I am town" during the first day. Anyone who doesn't do this is looked upon with deep suspicion. now obviously scum can fake this, but still, everyone does it because anyone who doesn't is lynched for being scum.
Here you are in this game, and you can decide whether or not to write "i am town". If you don't write it, YOU WILL BE LYNCHED. It's super dumb that you need to write it, but if you're any good at all you'll write it. you have to. In mafia your goal isn't to be smart, or to follow some ideal of what it means to be a good mafia player.
On October 24 2013 04:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: istandwithmitt:
I suggest you join normal games instead. You played probably the best D1 from all the people. There is a reason players like you and me are being "hated". You made clear cases and managed to say same things in 10 words other people used 500 words on. In addition to that, the cases were spot on (not necessarily 100% correct as on scum, but correct in what you said). You nearly got lynched for it (lol).
I would suggest, if you are not able to be around (or don't know if you will), place your vote at the start of the day. It's a rule and whether or not you like it the rules should be followed.
The 1:1 with vigi scenario, i can understand your point of view, i can understand the other one too. I dunno which is better - as i think rules should be followed - why skip a day phase then if mafia does not win by equaling the town? If people make those kinda rules then there should be a vote race, it's a rule that whoever has the most votes first gets lynched in case of a tie. Nowhere does it say in some scenarios the day phase is skipped. I get the point and i agree with it, but it's pointless to discuss it, draw has been declared already.
Hold on. Rayn....are you insinuating that you are clear and/or concise?
On October 24 2013 04:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: He nailed 2/3 mafia on D1. In fucking 5 posts. Just because he does not make long fluff posts does not make him bad or scum. There was no case on him, except for people "not liking him". How is he supposed to defend himself?
Everyone failed to read what he actually said because they didn't like him...
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
I can quote the posts if you really want to. But what he said about you and SagaZ was 100% correct. I would have lynched you for it if i was in the game.
having correct reads is probably one of the least important mafia skills
I know, that's why i said in obs QT that he fails in explaining himself and convincing others. Too bad nowadays "convincing someone" comes with big walls of quotes or with your name being something like marv or Palmar. That's bad.
See, this is one of the best analysis posts in this game whether or not Mitt is right. Should encourage discussion on the matter. I personally noticed another thing in that post he quoted. GGTemplar was basically already working under mindset where he shuts down Mitt, caals him bad and unproductive, instead of inviting him to the discussion by asking him about the specifics of his reads and contributing towards them. He was basically doing the exact same (by his definition anti-town) thing he thinks Mitt was in his posts (which was imo not the case at all). ___________________- 109 iamperfectionPerson was signed in when posted 10-16-2013 12:55 PM ET (US) he picks up his ball and says he is going home every time he posts. ___________________ 108 raynpelikoneet 10-16-2013 12:49 PM ET (US) And i think that post would be scummy if it wasn't a newbie game. :p Can anyone tell me why? ^_^ ___________________ 107 raynpelikoneet 10-16-2013 12:39 PM ET (US) /m105: Actually he is not bad imo. He's just failing to take an approach that suits this game (aka. the current playerbase). On D1 he had clear scumreads with reasoning, if someone doesn't quote every single scummy post and tell "this thing here, it's scummy because XYZ" it does not make them bad. Obviousöly he is failing to explain himself to the current playerbase and that's why he is not doing well, but i can see his intentions behind his posts.
It's usually not what people post, it's why they post what they do. Newer players tend to just look at the content and what the post in itself says. If you learn to look "beyond the content" you find town/mafia more effectively.
Let's take an example; Mitt's last post is "Can anyone tell me why this post is scummy?". There is a clear motivation in this post. He is challenging fellow players to look into the post he quoted and tell him what they think of it. It's clear that he has already formed some sort of tell from that post. He is probably looking for people who think alike him. I see that as a town!motivated action, while the text he wrote in the post in itself says very little.
You're off the mark.
onlywonderboy posted about as much as istandwithmitt and with similar concision, but I still considered him to be a contributing town member. The difference between them is that onlywonderboy didn't martyr himself and burn bridges the moment anyone tried to respond to him or get him to post more.
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
I was afraid the entire game this post early on would come back to bite me lol
SK why did you shoot me btw?
I shot you out of pure luck I had no reads I was just going with my gut :p
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
I was afraid the entire game this post early on would come back to bite me lol
SK why did you shoot me btw?
I shot you out of pure luck I had no reads I was just going with my gut :p
that is so boring! Blazinghand was like 'try to shoot scum tonight' and you immediately just ##shoot ggtemplar like 'woaaaaaah'
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
I was afraid the entire game this post early on would come back to bite me lol
SK why did you shoot me btw?
I shot you out of pure luck I had no reads I was just going with my gut :p
that is so boring! Blazinghand was like 'try to shoot scum tonight' and you immediately just ##shoot ggtemplar like 'woaaaaaah'
the real trick was top stop trying to shoot scum and instead shoot scum
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
I was afraid the entire game this post early on would come back to bite me lol
SK why did you shoot me btw?
I shot you out of pure luck I had no reads I was just going with my gut :p
that is so boring! Blazinghand was like 'try to shoot scum tonight' and you immediately just ##shoot ggtemplar like 'woaaaaaah'
the real trick was top stop trying to shoot scum and instead shoot scum
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
I was afraid the entire game this post early on would come back to bite me lol
SK why did you shoot me btw?
I shot you out of pure luck I had no reads I was just going with my gut :p
that is so boring! Blazinghand was like 'try to shoot scum tonight' and you immediately just ##shoot ggtemplar like 'woaaaaaah'
the real trick was top stop trying to shoot scum and instead shoot scum
On October 14 2013 16:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I think between SagaZ and istandwithmitt, at most one of them is mafia. SagaZ's first post is somewhat suspicious but istandwithmitt instantly going so hard on him is just as suspicious because it seems like such an easy target at that point.
There's no way they're both mafia together. It's possible both are town, but if we gain information that one of them is mafia, it would clear the other as town I'd say.
I was afraid the entire game this post early on would come back to bite me lol
SK why did you shoot me btw?
I shot you out of pure luck I had no reads I was just going with my gut :p
that is so boring! Blazinghand was like 'try to shoot scum tonight' and you immediately just ##shoot ggtemplar like 'woaaaaaah'
Well I knew i had to shoot mafia for town to keep going, and the only person I didn't get a town read from was GG temp, so Bang down he went .
Yeah except nobody went for it. All I remember about that game is warbaby going full retard or something, Zarepath cooking up some fake case on me that made me shit my pants 'cause it was my first mafia game ever and I had no clue how to react, and you carrying the shit out of your team.
i found this gem in the obs thread [seuss, who else?]
I'm imagining the townsfolk of Newbieville, all huddled in their homes, phones disconnected for fear of communication. What if their hello isn't friendly enough? What if it is too friendly? What if they forget to say goodbye? What if they hang up too soon? What if there's a bit of static right at an awkward point in a sentence? What if the call is just to confirm they're home, TO KILL THEM?
Now and again a bird sings on a tree branch outside, but its song only brings misery, an unpleasant reminder of the sunny, cheerful day outside. Their self-enforced despair forbids them enjoy the beauty of simple existence. This is no longer a town, it is a cemetery, and its inhabitants simply wait for the gravedigger to bury them.
perfect.
i do regret not making more time that last day to post.
in any case, i had a lot of fun this game -- thanks a lot to the mods, coaches. and other players [for not getting modkilled]! a near perfect activity record!
On October 24 2013 15:39 SagaZ wrote: The number 1 lesson i took from this: Umasi doesn't beleive in the baylife
I don't know what you're referring to regarding the baylife. If it's in any way a reference to TSM at all, you are absolutely 100% on the mark and I congratulate your analysis!