Newbie Mini Mafia XLVII - Page 5

On September 07 2013 17:22 heavenz wrote:
Okay, firstly, Blurry, I am sorry I thought you were not town. You are a swiss man by the book. I wish someone had responded to me on the agression I put on Blurry before the night. I feel like I understand nothing now.

Things to consider: Holyf. case on Ray, Infi's case, Voting behavior,

There is one thing I didn't realize in the situation:

Holyf.'s endnote in the post where he makes a case vs infi and me.



In another post.

Obviously Holyf. had Ray on his suspicious list for a long time. But he didn't not make a post against him or pressure him until the very end of day1.

This his Holyf. case against Ray

+ Show Spoiler +

Summary in my words. Holyf. points out the discrepantcy in Ray words, where first he stats the opinion that lynching on day1 can be a mistake three times, and then states in a complex "what if" his thoughts about umasi and holyf.

His (Ray) post about Umasi and Holyf discussion


So what we see this post from Ray, Holyf. says that this is nothing of value. Ray attacks Holyf. with his words/english (I am not native, I wouldn't say things in such a complicated way). Holyf. notes it but doesn't amplify on it until the very end.

He might have truthfully thought that Ray was scum, even more so than he thought about infi's and me (and only sidenoted him as scum, while we got the cases), and that's why he didn't make a case against him earlier but in last second to set him under way higher pressure.
----
I must admit that in the last time before the vote I didn't see things like that. Mostly with the death of Blurry I realize how easy it is to make a wrong judgement, and stand there like a stupid lol. I suspected too many players and trusted no one, but the chances that someone is town are still higher than beeing mafia, we are more after all. Holyf. made a case against someone and made it went with it balls deep, that this person slipped town almost makes him more town to me that if it had been scum. His reasoning wasn't just a short burst and sudden idea like I thought at first.
What makes me curious however that he seems to list those players the highest on suspicion who suspect / doubt him, namly Ray, Infis, Me.

Please answere me on this Holyf.

Infi

In general if he would post three times more I would straight up say town, I am d'accore with his reasoning.

Here's his last post regarding the Ray case


I have come to a somewhat different conclusion, I ask you please give your thoughts about it too.



Alright, please don't be afk then and show us the "facts at hand".

I have no existent scum list at the moment, and my judgment will on infis will wait for:


Well voting behavior is kinda core :D
But it's a big topic, so I will delay this for now


Further things I plan to write on in the future: Umasi (omg, what a topic...) and Blurry's death.

I think today is the time for working to togehter and getting clues and not the time for suspicious.

On September 04 2013 08:04 Blurry wrote:


You get a lot more out of lynching than just the player dead, you also get loads of information on everybody and is one of the best ways to have the scum reveal themselves. Bandwagoning, Fence Sitting, Caving under pressure are some of the best ways to spot the scum and these are revealed when you lynch a player day 1.

Since its plurality vote anyway, I'm going to be lynching somebody no matter what day 1, so now that the decision to lynch is taken out of your hands you better come up with some scum reads to not waste this day and reduce the chances of a mislynch.

On September 04 2013 08:13 Blurry wrote:


A couple more things, please don't use loaded questions. I don't want to kill townspeople, but I also think that the risk of doing so is necessary to inspire discussion. Why does it have to be obvious that someone is scum? We should go off our best hunch rather than waste time.

On September 04 2013 12:20 Umasi wrote:
I am around to talk to, class finished and I'm at my computer.

Why not?

he was like 'oh hoh hoh this is a clever way to catch scum'
or he's a troll.
or he's legitimately confused by how this game is played.



strongest town read:You for asking this question and trying to talk about something productive.
strongest scum read: vel, for calling me out as town and ignoring the other parts of my reads post, it feels like he thought I was a threat to be appeased. I also am leery of heavenz for ignoring the discussion.

On September 04 2013 15:26 heavenz wrote:
Umasi, is very aggressive, which is a townlike nature, but beeing aggressive on the first day with everyone just getting into isn't a big feat, so that reduces my town read of him at the moment, at least he called me out for my opening post, which was indeed worthless, and thought to be just a bit of a discussion starter before I went to bed (I didn't think the game would actually start yesterday).

However Pharcyd3 also jumped on me with 1 post, 1 line, calling me out and then leaving the thread. At least equally scummy to my opening post, even more so that he just followed Umasi. There need to come more indeed.

Lord Velocity, I don't have to quote here much as every post says: he doesn't like to get attention and tries to behave neutral / hide

Holyflare is just doing his thing, posting much, but the content is mostly contentless. As he said himself, he is holding back his informations.

Blurry good townread opening posts, focussing on the discussion.

Chairman Ray, suspicious, or just weird? What is this about...

Killerdog, started out with a strong town post, but then just keept summing Umasi's and Holyf.'s conversation up. I want to have more than you just repeating and summing up the last 5 posts.

most Scum: Lord Velocity, Pharcyd3, Chairman Ray, Holyflare (until he stops holding back, which I assume will be on day 1, then we'll see.)
most Town: Blurry, Killerdog, Umasi

On September 04 2013 21:31 heavenz wrote:
He's active, his opinions are townlike, he studied Lord Velocity who behaved a little suspicious. He started a discussion to bring everyone to speak and voice their opinions.

That's more town than the most right now. Yes it could be fake, but in my book his action are town.

On September 06 2013 06:28 heavenz wrote:
I am still thinking that myrezth is a good target for a 1st day lynch. He is most of all a safe bet. Yes he might be town, but he's a counterproductive town, it's like with an employe, yes it's one employe more, but it's the one who's distracting the others from their work. Most of all he shows no willingness to learn.

Ofcourse I would rather vote mafia on day1 but unless I have some sort of understanding a better bet, I go with myrezth.

LV is a curious case, he loves umasi / holyf. and ignores everything what everyone else says and just tries to impress them. Chairman I kinda like your work or idea you had, and I am can't agree at the moment with holyf.'s case on you. Bereft and Blurry are both equally neutral, Blurry even acknowledged his neutrality, but tried to satisfy me by agree with me. No bro.

I have not come to a conclusion yet, damn my mind.

On September 05 2013 03:48 killerdog wrote:
ok here are my current reads/opinions on people.


umasi
-He was one of my original town reads, and hasn't been afraid of the limelight/stepping on peoples toes. I really liked his first post in that he pointed out that making "i am new" posts just serves to give people more ammunition to throw suspicion on random people, and potentially saved us from being in a situation where 4-5 people read really scummy just off their first post, which could have derailed town a lot and let mafia with decent first posts hide easily.)


He was vocal about wanting to move on from the lynch/nolynch debate (which seems fair) and he put the original pressure on velocity. But then decided to pounce on holyflare. Whether that was a good decision or not I don't know but he comitted to it pretty hard, other then one post at velocity, he's focussed 100% on holyflare from that point on.

He also poked chairman ray for a bit of information earlier on.

I still think he's town, but given how willing he was to pressure that hard against holyflare, I would be hesitant to centre any kind of town circle around him. I would much rather have someone more passive/gentle like blurry helping guide the discussion because if we just pressure every mistake too hard, people will get intimidated and afraid of posting, and we risk tunell visioning away from more subtle scummy behaviour.

Also worth noting that he and holyflare have played before, where (as far as i can tell) Umasi was scum and Holyflare played a good town town. I don't know if the events of that game have had any effect on the decisions either Umasi or Holyflare have made this game, since they brought it up in their first posts, it might as well be mentioned.


infii
-Didn't say much of anything yesterday, but thats understandable because timezones.
He made a post today basically calling out the people who haven't been posting much, other then that he's one of the first people (other then velocity) to suggest Umasi isn't playing pro town.

The only read i've been able to infer (other then the inactives) is that he's a bit suspicious of Umasi/maybe looking to disntance himself from umasi. First he voices a disagreement with Umasi's policy of keeping a vote on his suspect, the says



He hasn't really contributed anything other then that, and it sticks out a bit that pretty much the only thing he's done is knock on other people for not doing enough. on the whole a pretty neutral read so far.



heavenz
-First post wasn't really anything, I believe he was saying hi before going to bed. His post with his reads is pretty intereseting, and i agree with most of them. I'm interested by the fact he has holyflare on his scum list (although i agree that holy has been being a bit uncooperative) as most people other then umasi seem to have read him as town so far. I've written this before holy's section, so we'll see if i change my mind on holyflare after going through holyflares filter again.

Don't have much of a read on him, but he's contributed and seems much townier then some of the people so far.


myRzeth
-Still hasn't postsed, apparently he's in germany so I would expect him to post, at the latest, this evening. Otherwise he'll need to have a good excuse.


Bereft
-Not got much on him, he was supportive of blurry's move to just out reads to get things going, and he was also disagreeing with Holyflare when it came to Holyflares decision to withhold his reads. However while Umasi took this as a queue to pounce on holyflare, Bereft seemed pacified by holyflare posting this:


and backed off hard, called for people who haven't psoted yet to post and dissapear.

Don't have much of a read on him either way either.



Pharcyd3
-By far the most suspicious person so far in my opinion. To reiterate what I said, his one post is just attacking heavenz for his first post, irony of that aside, doing that and then dissapearing is really scummy in my opinion.
The reason I'm so suspicious of him is I'm having a hard time visualising a situation where he's town and acts like this. If he's in a hurry and didn't have time to read the thread then randomly throwing accusations at someone without having read the thread yet is either really bad town, or plain scum. If we assume that he wasn't just randomly throwing accusations around without reading the thread fully. If he had time to read the thread, why didn't he have the extra minute or two it would have taken to address any of the topics being discussed, I don't see a townie thinking it's ok to throw suspicions on someone, ignoring the current conversation, then disappear.

I also found it interesting that so many people picked up on velocity's post, but so few noticed pharcyd3's. For the record here are the people who posted after pharcyd3's post but didn't mention it until I fingered him in my first post. HolyFlare, Blurry (references velocity), Bereft (references velocity), Umasi (references velocity)
Note bereft did say just before i posted

so he might have just missed it.



HolyFlare
-Holyflare seems to be involved in everything, early on he was very much in control of the flow of debate, bringing up sleeping n1, then not being afraid of disagreeing with people. However once Blurry suggested sharing reads he pretty defensive/confrontational.

Regardless of his orientation, to me he feels like a rather charismatic player who doesn't want to just scrape by being passive and answering questions, but rather wants to be one fo the people in the driving seat, and that might be why he reacted to blurry taking the initiative like he did. There were three people who stood out to me as pressuring him on his refusal to share reads.
-Bereft, who seemed to be satisfied by holyflares response,
-Blurry, most of blurry's posts seem to be things holyflare disagreed with, or vice versa
-Umasi, who ended up going hard on holyflare.

To be honest I'm having a hard time getting any kind of read off of him. He's stated that his style is "asking off the cuff questions about posts" to catch people off guard. Something he's been consistent in doing. He also didn't seem to change his posting style, or go super defensive when umasi voted for him.


He's talking alot (most posts of anyone i think) and doing a good job asking questions but the way he reacted to being asked for reads was a bit dereailing and very uncooperative. He hasn't really given any evidence to prove himself town so far. He's talking a ton about the over all "metagame" of mafia, and a lot about mafia tactics in general but basically nothing relevant to this game itself. It takes more then asking other people questions to prove yourself a townie, and refusing to give any analysis on the other players at all, while still expecting people to answer all your questions is asking for a lot.

Still very much on the fence about him and I'm starting to regret interrupting Usami when i did.


Lord Velocity
-Originally I felt people were sort of ganging up on velocity without any real case. He made a first post which didn't say much other then give a "gut feeling" and, true, he was asked for reads by umasi and didn't answer the question before leaving the thread for a while, but considering that pharcyd3 made an at least equally suspicious post 12 minutes later, and that got totally ignored, the number of people putting velocity on their lists seemed a bit high.

However after reading his defensive posts, I'm a lot more suspicious of him now. He called scum on Umasi based on

Which feels a lot like just counter accusations rather then a justified read, just stating what happened rather then saying why you thought the actions were scummy isn't very watertight.

This

Also felt like a bit of an overreaction given the amount of pressure he was under at the time.

He might just be a townie who wasn't expecting pressure and overreacted though.
Not sure on him, but he's on the scummier end of the spectrum out the the players who have posted more then a paragraph or two. Hopefully he will start volunteering some information himself without any more pressure.




Chairman Ray
-Hasn't been very active yet,

This one post is a huge elephant in the room when it comes to him


The way he phrased it makes it seem unlikely that he's mafia slipping up.
As someone else said, he might have been trying to trip up a mafia, or just screwing around, but I would very much like him to go on record saying why he posted this just so it's dealt with and doesn't cause misunderstandings later.

Other then that he hasn't said much other encouraging threatening to lynch people which seems logical enough.

Not enough content for a read though, hope he posts more tonight.


LoneMeow
-Hasn't said much content wise, although i do agree with his statement that Umasi/Holyflare argument seems a bit town v town. He seems to have popped in at a time when the thread was relatively inactive, and posed questions to a few people. He hasn't pointed out much which hasn't already been said though.



Blurry
-As i mentioned in an earlier post, Blurry was disagreeing with holyflare on several points over several different posts. Infact his first 5 posts are all either voicing a differing opinion to holyf, or straight up quoting him and disagreeing. He then brought up the topic of just sharing reads to promote discussion, which holyf refused to do (which then set umasi off.)

I don't know if this is one of them trying to distance themselves from the other, or one getting some kind of read off of the other, (or indeed just a side effect of them being two of the more active players during that time period) but as it's pretty much all Blurry has done I feel it's relevant.

He's also spared two posts to help explain a few things to velocity, from those two i would say he seems to think velocity is just town who overreacted to a bit of pressure, regardless of why he did it though, I think explaining why he was under suspicion is a pro town move, as mafia would probably want to let him just talk himself into a lynch rather then try and help him. I also liked how he helped move the discussion along on day 1 by calling for reads.

One of the townier players imo.

On September 06 2013 00:30 killerdog wrote:


I thought I sort of did that in the long post I made while ago, but it might have been a bit hard to find because the post got a bit bloated :p

I'll just put players in an abridged list of reads, in vague town to mafia order

Town-
Killerdog: (fuck yeah)
Umasi: + Show Spoiler +
Blurry: + Show Spoiler +
Holyflare: + Show Spoiler +
it gets a bit fuzzier here
Lord Velocity: + Show Spoiler +
Bereft: + Show Spoiler +
Lonemeow: + Show Spoiler +
Heavenz: + Show Spoiler +
Infii: + Show Spoiler +
Chairman ray: + Show Spoiler +
Pharcyd3: + Show Spoiler +
myrzeth: + Show Spoiler +

On September 05 2013 09:47 Lord Velocity wrote:
Umasi to me is more on the town side of things and Holy in the middle. Bereft on the more scummy parts of things with Blurry neutral.I haven't heard much else from them since so I think it's safe to think about lynching either Myrz, or Pharcyd, because I don't know how the mod killing thing REALLY works. But yea unless they respond I'm pretty sure they're safe lynches.

On September 05 2013 13:55 Lord Velocity wrote:
One more thing, I'm sorry if this is quite contradicting to the "Deflect suspicion" thing but I've noticed that Bereft has backed up Blurry with utter confidence and Vice Versa. Now I will go to bed, See you all in the morning

On September 05 2013 22:56 Lord Velocity wrote:
Okay so I have to rush this a littlebit? I have to go to school and won'tbe here for the end of the night. So I would like to say that my read on Umasi I think was posted, but if not it's the same to Killers a little, they both provided major information leading us in the right direction on others, Holy still stands neutral as I said, I'm a little sketchy onBlurry andBereft because they come in, disregard everything said, and focus on everything that's happened like 5(or like 8) pages ago and don't bother trying to clear their names on some peoples list, as they have also got some sort of "Blurry said something, he's right." Or vice versa with bereft. But I won't be around to the end of the lynching phase so I'm sorry. I also do'nt think I'm a smart vote as I have 2 right now, so I think that might stay the same,but I will be voting for Bereft or Heavenz. Thank you, see you all later.