EPT(I'm starting to see why everyone in this forum has such high post counts :p)
Newbie Mini Mafia XLVII - Page 2
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
(I'm starting to see why everyone in this forum has such high post counts :p) | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 08:43 Umasi wrote: Voting vel is dumb, do not do it What reason is there not to vote for him. He just broke one of the rules of the game itself, and his excuse for having done so doesn't really make sense. I'm not saying "lynch velocity", I'm just saying that that was shady as hell, and I'm gonna leave my vote on him until this gets sorted out. In your own words On September 04 2013 14:23 Umasi wrote: I normally keep the person I think is the scummiest as my vote target, but since there are quite a few people I'm leery of, it rests on no one for now. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 09:01 Lord Velocity wrote: I'm so so so so so Sorry people. I said that asking for reads wouldn't be scummy really unless you were trying to bandwagon on their reads, which could subsequently be scummy and realized how dumb I sounded and got embarassed, and the keyboard thing was because I dropped my laptop and had to fix my board itself because it has thin keys. And I was unaware of the no editing rule, I must have missed it. But voting for me(Killer and Chairman) is not the smartest thing. and seeing as you two hopped on it right away seeing an easy lynch but nobody else voted. And I don't even know what QT means, and I fled for an hour or so because I wanted to eat pizza with my sister who is moving out for college. I'm terribly sorry if it was suspicious and I myself have become suspicious of Killer and Chairman in the process. Lynches don't work like that, it's not like you get instant lynched if enough people vote for you. The soonest any of these votes actually mean anything is in 22 hours, when the first day ends. At that time whoever has the most votes gets lynched, or if most people voted to sleep then no-one dies. Even if everyone else voted for you now, nothing would happen until tomorrow (at least as far as my understanding of the rules goes.) So going for an "easy" lynch by bandwagoning votes before someone can respond isn't even a thing. QT is quicktopic, what the mafia use to communicate with each other. All our votes mean is that we think you're suspicious, and this is how we indicate that you're being suspicious. Just like how Umasi voted for holyflare earlier. First you don't know the no edit rule, and then you assume we're trying to "speed lynch" you or something which isn't even possible. I think you should re-read the rules. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 06:04 Lord Velocity wrote: So I think Killerdog is safe to say town because of his willingness to give reads To On September 05 2013 09:01 Lord Velocity wrote: I myself have become suspicious of Killer and Chairman in the process. Based solely off the fact that we think it's suspicious that he edited a post is quite dramatic. Anyway, I'm going to sleep now. If myrzeth or pharcyd3 shows up, don't let them get away with a "sorry" and a few regurgitated reads. Also, I'm leaving my vote on Velocity, not because I want to kill him immediately, but because I find the fact that he gets suspicious of both me and ray because we thought editing was suspicious rather far fetched. (If nothing else it would be rather strange mafia play to try and bandwagon on someone like that day 1) Please don't all tunnel on velocity though, we're into the last 24 hours of day 1 and there are people who haven't spoken, or said basically anything. I'm not sure if we get to see what the post was pre-edit or not, (I asked the mod and he said something about dealing with it tomorrow) but until that happens (if it does) there's not much gained from discussing it. I liked holyflares post, and it seems like a good starting point. Also someone who I might add to the list is bereft, he disagreed with holyflare a for a few posts really early on, then disappeared. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 09:28 Lord Velocity wrote: I just think it was a rookie mistake tbh I can't really say believe me, it's up to you I agree that that's a perfectly plausible excuse, and I'm not calling for you to be lynched. I'm just saying that the timing was really bad given that you were just starting to get your act together, and on top of that I don't like your immediate counter-claim on me and chairman ray. There are several people who have either not posted, or not posted anything of worth, and before your edit you were making a few decent posts, I'm not blindly forgetting that, and unless everyone else in the game suddenly starts playing really good town overnight, the chances of you getting lynched based off the edit aren't very high at all. I'm just leaving the vote on you mainly because you've had two separate incidents where you've instinctively counter-claimed scum on someone. We'll see what the mod says tomorrow and whether any of the people yet to speak up/being called out respond adequately and start making actual decisions on what to vote for after that. Just keep contributing like you were earlier. | ||
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killerdog
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First off, I'd like to address why I jumped so hard on the edit. LV had a rather shaky start, and responded rather badly to the pressure Umasi put on him at the very beginning. He had just started making a more actual posts but I still didn't really have any read on him. When I saw that he had made a post then edited it, I figured I had main options. 1, I tell chairman ray to chill out, that it was not something worth starting a lynch train on, and maybe put a bit of pressure on ray or something. 2, I go on him full force and see what happens. There were two main reasons I went with the second option. Firstly, he's already proven to be weak to pressure, and I was curious to see how he'd respond the second time. A few of the more "scummy" elements of his first defence had been pointed out to him, and if he'd replied either really quickly (making the "back in a few hours" thing very sketchy) or if he'd replied with a long, well worded, well thought out argument, I would have been pretty suspicious of him because it would have been such a dramatic change from the last time. Secondly, There was always the chance that someone who had been relatively quiet/noncommital had jumped onto the vote train behind me, which would have given a lot of information depending on who they were. His defence felt very natural, It was all one giant paragraph, lots of run on sentences, it just didn't feel like something which had been proofread very much or anything like that, whereas I feel a mafia would likely have put a lot of time/thought into formulating that defence if they actually felt under real pressure. Furthermore, his first two posts in the thread, (before game started): On August 31 2013 11:06 Lord Velocity wrote: /in My first game of mafia, so brace yourselves. On August 31 2013 11:22 Lord Velocity wrote: I kinda get basics, I've played irl, which is different, and then I've watched Neal's streams I felt that these two things made him having just not read the rules properly more plausible, having a good handle on the how mafia works might lead to just skimming the rules rather then carefully reading them, whereas a total beginner or someone who's played forum mafia before would probably not make that mistake. Thats why I pressured really hard for a few posts then backed off again. I was surprised that he mentioned finding me suspicious as a result, given that he'd named me as town just a few posts above, but I don't see why a mafia would do that, it seemed more like sloppy play due to stress then being a particularly town or mafia move. @Bereft, the reason I said it felt like you were placated was because you were going on him quite hard, then he said that his style was to highlight posts you question and ask for explanations, and you go On September 04 2013 13:26 Bereft wrote: hm. well. if we're just going to chat and make small talk ... i have to admit i'm no longer browsing that other newbie game for "meta" -- but for pure lulz. Alakaslam and iVLosK! sooo good. so many gems. i'd probably have kept alakaslam alive just for the banter. hahah but seriously if we're just going to talk about inconsequential shit, what's the point? also infii, killerdog, myrzeth, pharcyd3, where you guys at? And then vanish. It just felt a bit like either you felt like you'd "done your bit" or his answer fully satisfied you, because talking about the other game just felt a bit like you were looking for a way to end the conversation, rather then agreeing or disagreeing with him. I can see how that doesn't contradict your reasoning for posting it the way you did though. Also, the focus shifted off LV after the first pressure thing, my feeling of the general consensus at the time was that he had screwed up, but we were willing to (at least for now) attribute that to inexperience, and he made a few posts giving his views on things. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=14#268 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=14#274 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=15#281 Nothing groundbreaking, but more then quite a few other people had done at that point. The votes to lynch were more reactions to the edited post, (as was umasi saying "don't vote vel"). I can see how these changes in mood can be hard to pick up on if you read the whole thread at once though. Also a point which i think is worth raising now. Given that we have to have voted for someone/sleep with 18 hours, and there is still a player who hasn't posted, (myrzeth,) If we lynch someone, say pharcyd3, and then myrzeth gets modkilled, what effect does that have on the game, and if we have a confirmed mod kill would it be better to sleep? I'm in a hurry to get to class so I don't have time to think about it properly right now, but I think we need to have a plan in place to account for the chance of there being a mod kill on myrzeth. Mod question, If myrzeth doesn't show up by midnight CET, does he just die, or does a replacement get put in. Browsing the thread, the only two replacements i noticed were koshi and someone else, but you said koshi had way too many games for a newbie mafia, and the other guy mentioned only doing it if apeture mafia didn't start, which it has. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 14:38 Umasi wrote: Killerdog, I'm having trouble understanding what exactly you think, because you give a lot of summations of peoples posts, and your thoughts (which is good!) but you don't actually draw conclusions from it all. Instead of going X did A and Y did B which had a scummy result, be like 'this is why he is scummy/not scummy'. I can't tell what you're actually trying to communicate in your post =/ I thought I sort of did that in the long post I made while ago, but it might have been a bit hard to find because the post got a bit bloated :p I'll just put players in an abridged list of reads, in vague town to mafia order Town- Killerdog: (fuck yeah) Umasi: + Show Spoiler + Currently town read, hasn't been as much as some people, but the the posts he did make all seemed to serve a purpose, and I feel like he's been consistent in calling out behaviour he disagrees with. Also amde a few good town guiding posts. As the game progresses I'd hope for a little more reads/pressure coming from him, but he's definitely not what I'd call n1 lynch potential at all. Blurry: + Show Spoiler + I got a very town read off blurry, for reasons I said last post. However he's provided no content (other then a "good post tomorrow" promise) in the last 36 or so hours. I'm keeping him high on my town list under the assumption that he's going to make a really good town post in the next few hours, if he doesn't post, or just parrots some other opinions then he's going quite far down the list very quickly. Don't feel like he'd be a good n1 lynch just because I'm loath to abandon someone who read so town at start, but if he doesn't have a reason for vanishing or if he posts nothing of value before the voting deadline I'll reassess. Holyflare: + Show Spoiler + Holyflare's been very very active, even if a lot of the posts have been a bit fulffy with regards to relevant content. I felt like he spent most of day 1 arguing about how "mafia should be played" rather then actually playing it, which can read as scum given how he didn't want any associations thrown on him, but he god into three arguments really quickly with blurry, bereft and Umasi and didn't back down from any of them (to the point where Umasi voted him.) I feel that's a point in his favour as town, because it would take a very brave mafia to be willing to thrust himself into the limelight that quickly. He's also made two decent posts since the, one calling out heavenz and infii for their relative lack of content. While ragging on people who haven't been very productive is by no means enough to put you as a pure town read, I liked his posts, and unless he suddenly locks up would like to keep him around. Worth noting is that I think having at this stage in the game, I voting off a vocal player who might be a bit scummy is a worse play then voting off someone who has contributed nothing. We really don't want to punish contributing, and potentially end up on day 3 or 4 with a few players who have yet to commit to anything, and have all the people we've pushed hard (and have lots of post to reference and analyse) be dead. it gets a bit fuzzier here Lord Velocity: + Show Spoiler + It feels a bit like he wears his heart on his sleeve, he goes super from a little pressure, then with a little reassurance goes super starts posting normally, then goes super defensive/apologetic from some more pressure, then a little reassurance and he's back to posting normally, even being willing to knock other people for being suspicious of him because he feels he's been cleared. I don't think a mafia would be this confident in towns opinion of him, and would be a little more wary given how many times he's been under heavy suspicion. I also like that he's actively posting and engaging in discussion. Again, I really don't see him as a n1 lynch candidate right now, just because he's active, unafraid despite already having been under the gun twice, and as I said in holyflares area. Even if someone is reading a bit scummy, as long as they're active and contributing I'd rather lynch someone who's being super non-committal on the first day or 2. I get that that some people might disagree with that statement but if they do then I'd ask that we have that discussion day 2 rather then now, as we have only got 9 hours left to decide on a lynch, and I'd rather leave "meta policy" discussions or whatever until we've decided on a lynch for tonight. Bereft: + Show Spoiler + Honestly have no idea what to do with him right now, he argued with holyflare early on, then made a post about another game being funny and vanished. It feels like he didn't re-read the thread closely enough on returning or something, but he was making some accusations/quoting things out of context which didn't really make sense at the time he got back. He's not been afraid to give opinions on multiple people though, and I wouldn't mind keeping him around as long as he posts more/says more. If he keeps vanishing then coming back and quoting things out of context he's gonna go down the list pretty fast. Lonemeow: + Show Spoiler + Have trouble getting a read right now, doesn't have very many posts, but he's asking questions when he see's things which don't make sense to him and is giving his opinion on things. While he's part of the trio of inii/heavenz/lonemeow who I feel have been a little sparse with regards to putting their foot down, and would like to see a bit more pressure applied towards him, I feel out of those three he's been asking questions indiscriminatingly which puts him above the other two for now.. Heavenz: + Show Spoiler + Same boat as lonemeow right now, he moans about inactives but has a grand total of 6 posts, only two of which contained actual analysis. While his longest post isn't poorly written and contains some decent insight, but is a bit sparse with actual reads (only clear read is him saying velocity is town), 2 or 3 good points isn't really much to your name after almost 48 hours of play. Personally I don't think he's a good n1 lynch, because he's shown the potential for decent analytical posts, and is willing to throw suspicion on people, however if he doesn't start posting more regurarly and being a bit clearer with what he thinks things actually mean then he's not going any higher on my list. Infii: + Show Spoiler + Hasn't posted much at all, he promised a big post today, and based on that he'll either go up in the list or stay here, I'll probably make my decision on whether he feels like a valid day 1 lynch or not based off that. Chairman ray: + Show Spoiler + Said he was working on his scum reads but hasn't mentioned *anyone* except holyflare and umasi, where are you reads? Also jumped really hard on Lord Velocity, I know I did too but I've explained my reasoning, and I'm curious what Ray's is. Hasn't really done anything except say things about holyflare and umasi, who aren't really relevant (imo) with regards to the day1 lynch, and has shown no signs of changing, He's probably the non afk player I would be most willing to lynch at this point. Pharcyd3: + Show Spoiler + afk-ed, probably gonna get mod killed myrzeth: + Show Spoiler + claims he's been active but hasn't posted shit. That means he's read all our posts saying he needs to come out and hasn't done anything. This isn't a game where everyone does their own thing in a corner, it's a game where town has to work together, not sure if he's really bad town, creative mafia, or trolling but he's my current #1 lynch | ||
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killerdog
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##vote: myRZeth yeah... no. | ||
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On September 06 2013 00:32 myRZeth wrote: My role being i can t contribute a lot, just analyze your posts and if i have i lead i would gladly share it. A town who can't contribute a lot isn't worth keeping around, either you're a townie who isn't helping point out leads, or more worryingly you're a mafia who will come in after having been quiet for a few days and abuse the fact that you have no past posts which can be used against you. In forum mafia it isn't enough to no be mafia, you have to prove yourself town and you haven't done that. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 06 2013 01:01 Blurry wrote: While I agree that he (myrzeth) isn't worth keeping around it may just be a waste of a vote to lynch him today. I'm assuming that the mafia has a QT which they can use during the day? If that is the case, if he really was just a lurking mafia his buddies would have given him stuff to say in order to save him. I just don't think there is enough to go on piling on the easiest target because he is just a lurker, and it may very well be that a lot of the pressure on him is coming from mafia themselves. Be careful in voting for him because he is the easiest target for mafia to get a mislynch right now compared to anyone else. The chances of us getting a for sure mafia lynch night 1 are quite low though, in a 12 man set up we're allowed 3-4 mislynches, and using one to get rid of a lurker is, in my opinion, worth it. I'm confused by your logic that "we shouldn't pressure him because he might say things which can save him." If he's mafia having him give some reads which are informative enough for us to want to lynch someone else instead is vastly preferable to lynching someone else but not getting those reads. Also by saying this, you've implied that you think him not giving any information at all even under threat of lynch is a town move, something i strongly disagree with. Besides, if you don't want lynch him, that means you think town would benefit more from lynching someone else then they would from lynching him. Who do you think is the better lynch? On September 05 2013 13:21 Blurry wrote: Expect to hear from me in the morning about other players and how i think we should proceed going into night 1. Maybe you can include it in your writeup. | ||
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On September 06 2013 01:10 killerdog wrote: in a 12 man set up we're allowed 3-4 mislynches, Wait sorry, I think my math was bad there, d1 = 8 v 3 n1 = 7 v 3 d2 = 6 v 3 n2 = 5 v 3 d3 = 4 v 3 n3 = 3 v 3 So if we mislynch three times in a row we lose. Also worth noting if parcyd3 gets modkilled tonight, and we mislynch tonight then d1 = 8 v 3 modkill = 7 v 3 n1 = 6 v 3 d2 = 5 v 3 n2 = 4 v 3 d3 = 3 v 3 (if mislynch So regardless of whether parcyd3 gets modkilled or not, worst case scenario is still we need to lynch a mafia at the latest day 3, or we lose. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 06 2013 01:20 Holyflare wrote: modkills should normally be replaced first before being killed out and I've done the math in like my first post I know, but I'm not sure there are any replacements available. The only one on the list is koshi and he's definitely not a newbie :p And I'm aware the maths already got brought up, I just felt it was relevant to point out that, even if there is a modkill, we should still kill tonight as a mod kill doesn't change the fact we lose in 3 mislynches. (and also i wanted to clarify my maths fail in saying we could have 3-4 mislynches) On September 06 2013 01:20 Lord Velocity wrote: Well you also might want to remember we can have cop checks, Vigi shots, etc Of course cop checks and vigi shots count, but I was talking about the worst case scenario. I decided not to accoutn for Vigi randomly shooting a townie before we find any mafia because that would just be really dumb. | ||
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Blurry, On September 05 2013 13:21 Blurry wrote: Expect to hear from me in the morning about other players and how i think we should proceed going into night 1. Lets hear it Remember Infii Heavenz bereft pharcyd3 lonemeow blurry You all need to vote or you're gonna get modkilled in under 5 hours. | ||
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heres the issue i have with you, you're calling out lonemeow for no analysis, but going through your filter here is the net sum of all the analysis you've provided over the past 45 hours. On September 06 2013 03:50 Blurry wrote: I want to draw attention to LoneMeow's posting content. It is made up of either asking people of their opinions on players or criticizing other peoples content. There is literally no analysis form him at any point in the game, nor taking any sides. Hes creating posts without content to make it seem like hes contributing to the discussion. This is pretty darn scummy. On September 04 2013 13:38 Blurry wrote: Aggression at the start is in no way indicative of scum, and if anything, is more a town indicator than anything, especially when he is leading the charge against a player. It is really risky for scum to be so direct because it draws so much attention to them. Umasi is probably my biggest town read for that reason right now. and On September 06 2013 01:01 Blurry wrote: While I agree that he (myrzeth) isn't worth keeping around it may just be a waste of a vote to lynch him today. I'm assuming that the mafia has a QT which they can use during the day? If that is the case, if he really was just a lurking mafia his buddies would have given him stuff to say in order to save him. I just don't think there is enough to go on piling on the easiest target because he is just a lurker, and it may very well be that a lot of the pressure on him is coming from mafia themselves. Be careful in voting for him because he is the easiest target for mafia to get a mislynch right now compared to anyone else. What are your opinions on -chairman ray -heavenz and are you saying you would rather lynch lonemeow then myrzeth? | ||
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killerdog
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Given how little he's posted so far, I think any attempt to work out what role he is is just going to be speculation. Blurry has made the argument that he's not mafia because mafia would have defended themselves by now. I disagree strongly with supporting that view point because not only does it discourage him from posting, but reading a lack of contribution as townie is pretty just getting a bit WIFOM imo. (did I use it right? :p) I also don't like that blurry brought that up so quickly, that's a valid point to make if we get to 30 minutes before the deadline and he still hasn't posted or something, but bringing it up so early before myrzeth has proven that he isn't going to defend himself further just complicates everything imo. No reason to provide someone under pressure with an out. Personally I'm in no way convinced that he's scum. I think it comes down to a choice between lynching myrzeth because he's lurking/being useless or lynching someone else who we think reads scummy. Personally I'm leaning towards lynching myrzeth, because from the way he responded to people challenging his silence, and the fact he still hasn't come in with a post bigger then a one liner, means I don't think he's going to suddenly be super contributive tomorrow. I'd rather not have to spend half a day arguing with someone about play styles again, or even worse have him just dissappear and then being in a situation day 2 where there might be a strong mafia read we want to lynch, but having to choose between lynching the afk lurker or the mafia read. And if he turns out to be mafia thats just a perk. | ||
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1. lynch myrzeth for shitty town play (and if we get lucky and hit a mafia, yay win) 2. lynch someone as a scum read, the a few people are pushing for LV in particular. I also think chairman ray has been a bit suspicious compared to other people, but I've seen a few people put him down as one of their town reads so thats moved him (temporarily) down on my scum list. 3. lynch someone else for shitty town play, but I don't see anyone else as anywhere near as potentially useless at myrzeth seems to be looking. | ||
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