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On September 23 2013 22:39 Koshi wrote:
Rayn quote me your case on CR. Like everything why you thought CR was scummy.
I can't quote anything because i did not make a case on him. I agreed with what yamato said on him.
How FirmTofu enters the game as scum is that he calls me scum in this manner; "soon rayn is going to find some bullshit reason to vote for me" and after that he calls my reads bad and calls me bad. That's not what he has done this game. In his last couple of town games he has been afk the entire D1, and got lynched for it. Look at the chat me/him/marv had after Desert. I didn't find him to be the best lynch because in this game he did not discredit me from the game start and he seemed to follow the advice he was given after Desert mafia. While his contributions were not good, they were not normal scum-FT'ish.
I do not know if he is scum or not, because on N1 he has shown some characteristics that are similar to his scumplay (for example his really weird read on me).
On September 23 2013 22:36 Koshi wrote:Ok that last post wasnt too clear. Fact is this: 1) rayn doesn't buss fellow scummers. However, he interacts with them. Townreads/scumreads doesn't matter. 2) rayn didn't tried to lynch me on the towny rayn way. Not enough caps, not enough times repeating why I am scum, too many times asking people to look at me. 3) I have no clue why rayn voted CR except for the fact he said CR was another scumread of his when I asked. And CR being less scummy than FT because FT did Show nested quote + way more he has done in his last couple of town games on D1. While it's not much, and i disagree with a lot of stuff he is saying, it still is way better and he seemed like trying. Guess what, saying this that rayn disagrees with is a really good way for rayn to lynch your ass. Also, if FT did more than his recent towngames, wouldn't that make it more likely he is mafia? So rayn gave many (untypical rayn) reasons why not to vote FT, and didn't gave any reasons why he voted CR. Except for "CR is the most scummy except Koshi". So rayn pretty scummy tbh.
1) Incorrect.
2) Incorrect.
3) So what am i supposed to do if the lynch i am pushing is not gonna happen? Vote for my null/townread instead of a scumread from the candidates that ARE possibly gonna get lynched? Waste my vote? wtf?
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On September 23 2013 22:38 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 22:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 23 2013 22:34 marvellosity wrote:
It's funny, because I'd say the players who played in Desert should be the ones with decent townreads on me by now. Why exactly? Because my play is pretty dissimilar, the way I've asked questions and gone about things is quite different. People in Desert *just saw* my mafia play.
There is one "difference" i have noticed in this game compared to Desert but that has to do with who is scum and who is not. I do not know who is scum so that can't possibly make you town, at least yet.
I always have my doubts on you, because you are good in this game and definitely able to change your play based on why you got found out in your last scumgame.
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On September 23 2013 22:59 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 23 2013 22:39 Koshi wrote:
Rayn quote me your case on CR. Like everything why you thought CR was scummy. I can't quote anything because i did not make a case on him. I agreed with what yamato said on him.
How FirmTofu enters the game as scum is that he calls me scum in this manner; "soon rayn is going to find some bullshit reason to vote for me" and after that he calls my reads bad and calls me bad. That's not what he has done this game. In his last couple of town games he has been afk the entire D1, and got lynched for it. Look at the chat me/him/marv had after Desert. I didn't find him to be the best lynch because in this game he did not discredit me from the game start and he seemed to follow the advice he was given after Desert mafia. While his contributions were not good, they were not normal scum-FT'ish.I do not know if he is scum or not, because on N1 he has shown some characteristics that are similar to his scumplay (for example his really weird read on me). On September 23 2013 22:36 Koshi wrote:Ok that last post wasnt too clear. Fact is this: 1) rayn doesn't buss fellow scummers. However, he interacts with them. Townreads/scumreads doesn't matter. 2) rayn didn't tried to lynch me on the towny rayn way. Not enough caps, not enough times repeating why I am scum, too many times asking people to look at me. 3) I have no clue why rayn voted CR except for the fact he said CR was another scumread of his when I asked. And CR being less scummy than FT because FT did way more he has done in his last couple of town games on D1. While it's not much, and i disagree with a lot of stuff he is saying, it still is way better and he seemed like trying. Guess what, saying this that rayn disagrees with is a really good way for rayn to lynch your ass. Also, if FT did more than his recent towngames, wouldn't that make it more likely he is mafia? So rayn gave many (untypical rayn) reasons why not to vote FT, and didn't gave any reasons why he voted CR. Except for "CR is the most scummy except Koshi". So rayn pretty scummy tbh. 1) Incorrect. 2) Incorrect. 3) So what am i supposed to do if the lynch i am pushing is not gonna happen? Vote for my null/townread instead of a scumread from the candidates that ARE possibly gonna get lynched? Waste my vote? wtf? 1) correct 2) correct 3) actually say why you vote for somebody. You didn't even say "I agree with yamato" when you voted CR, you just gave shitty reasons why you didn't vote FT. ^ I can't do this all day sadly enough because I am gone in 40 minutes for 48 hours. Bolded part) Well he didn't attack you, he even gave you a townread. But I am pretty sure he came in the thread calling DP scum because of the argument with geript, then went on and said geript was an inbred retard, then went on giving DP a townread, and then said VE was scum for buddying DP. Again, I already summed up that he did that while voting for FT. Can you please explain to me why FT is town for not attacking you but attacking somebody else instead while entering the thread? Why does it have to be you when he enters the thread? Your FT meta-read is: FT attacks me while entering the thread = FT is scum FT attacks somebody else while entering the thread = FT is town How close am I?
1) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417453&user=raynpelikoneet
I was scum with DP and OO. You are wrong.
2) You are not right Koshi. I do not yell á la Titanic / 4 Persona style any more, at least on D1.
3) So what if i didn't say that? Do you think it's wise for me as scum to not say that when i can just say that? That's why i did vote for CR. If you think i am scum for not saying "i agree with what yamato brought up" then i can't help you.
geript was acting stupidly, there is nothing wrong with FT saying that. FT went into an argument with DP after that. It was the argument that gave him a townread on DP i am reading his posts correctly. Why can't he do that as town? I agree that his read on VE is based on stupid stuff, but does that make him scum?
You yourself didn't think he was scummy for that, yet you still voted for him.
No, that's not what my meta-read on FT is. I already said what my FT meta-read is.
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Let me get this straight Koshi, do you think FT is scum or not?
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Why does Sentinel look better than me?
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On September 23 2013 23:51 Zaragon wrote:
Feels like Rayn is going to be stuck as scum for me after this vote. I already didn't like his play, and now it has gone from slightly scum to solidly scum.
Tofu is likely scum. Town is in a bad situation if he isn't, because that means mafia votes are diffused and less meaningful. But I'll assume town is in a good position, and he is. That makes my Mocsta town read go back up to solid.
The rest of the scum crowd is then probably distributed between Sentinel, Cheesecake, LoneMeow, Kush, Stutters, Cephiro, VE (my gut right now says Sentinel, Cheesecake, VE)
For now I'm willing to believe Marv, Geript and Yamato77 made mistakes for this vote. But Geript is not a town read for me anymore, I haven't liked his play all game so the town feel to his motivations is starting to feel tenuous
Mocsta's switching off Chairman Ray easily is not suspect to me from my read on him, but it's personality based
Oh and I'm finally getting any kind of read on Koshi, and it's slightly town.
Do you base your read on me on what FirmTofu is in your opinion going to flip? Pretty interesting as you had a town read on FT on D1.
Your scumread on FT now seems to be based on OMGUS rather than his actions.
Why exctly do you think i am scum, and why exactly do you think FT is scum?
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Mocsta and marv, while you are waiting for geript, what do you make out of this Zaragon dude?
His thought process is really weird. He calls out people who voted for CR already assuming FT is scum while he had a townread on FT on D1. It's really weird also because he himself dropped his vote on somewhere where it did have a zero effect to the lynch at all. I mean, looks to me like "at least i don't look bad, now these people look bad when FT flips scum". A lot of assumptions while not taking any responsibility from the lynch himself at all.
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On September 24 2013 01:35 marvellosity wrote:
Someone can shoot Vayne too. Too many people to shoot.
No his posts are so funny. ^_^
but for real, shoot the shit out of him..
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Mocsta's post below:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 24 2013 02:18 Mocsta wrote:
Hello, this is my end of night post. Bit early, but I am too tired and won't be around for deadline + first 1/4 of Day2 (if alive).
Im not that comfortable with this list, cos i only re-read the game up to p60 with full concentration; and then re-read to p73 tired as fuck. THe rest of the game is going off recollection -> but is the most pivotal part... so these reads will prob be meh.. apologies in advance.
1.DarthPunk
2.Rayn
3.Wave
5.Yamato77
6.kush
7.Koshi
8.ObviousOne
10.FirmTofu
11.Pandain
12.Cephiro
13.CC
15.Coag
16.Stutters
19.Sentinel
20.VE
21.Vayne
22.Geript
23.Risen
24.LoneMeow
25.Marv
26.Zaragon
27.MattChew
28.Umasi
29.JustAnotherTownie
9.Chair
4.Gumshoe Blazinghand
14.Xzavier Deconduo
17.Onegu
18.Zenatsu Malongo
Theres obviously something wrong with my list because I find 4 ppl firmly scummy, and 2 mildly scummy; and 3 to 4 ppl are yet to post.
Anyways, light comments on the polarizing reads
(1) Kushmaster
Im not sure why everyone thinks a town kush gives a shit about the game Day1. The games i played with a town kush.. he hates day1 and is content to throw in comments here and there, and start trying once the play count has dwindled. To me, he genuinely seems like he doesnt know who any scum team is; tahts enough for me to give hima town read. When Kush is wrong, he is town; and when Kush is right, he is scum.
(2) FirmTofu
In my opinion he is either a scum agent sent to fuck with the thread (a la Blazinghand role) OR retarded town.
Im inclined to think retarded town. Im not heavily experienced with firmtofu, but I know based on post-game discussions, that he believes he makes beneficial pro-town decisions -> even when the whole thread is against him. This kinda feels like that. I will admit his posting gives me a zen-like calmness too. Its slow and methodical, but in a good way. I kept the read at null cos the above is just all gut. I dont really have a hard stance on him based on filter specifics. I dont think he is a good vig shot as the chances of flipping town are higher than some other choices in my opinion.
(3) Coag
Im not familiar with him at all. But I have noticed that he has made an effort to keep up with the game, and when trolling, actually trolls on current matters, some that are obvious and some more subtle. To me, thats definitely a tick in his favour. I believe the scum version of Coag trolling is Risen.
(4) Sentinel
Right now, if i had to remove a scum read out fo the 4 bold red. Would prob be Sentinel. I dunno, its like he is too scummy to be scum.. fuck i hate that argument.
In regards to vig shots.
Please dont shot the 3-4 replacements. They need to be pressured heavily. They had a 24hr grace period to read the thread, so should be good to go (or at least close) by start of Day2.
Good shots in my opinion {Cephiro / Vayne / Geript} but do what you want in the end.
Cephiro -> Because he was (mildly) present, but I cant really recall a thing about him.
Vayne -> Its clear he wont stop trolling.
Geript -> Its unclear whether hes going to pull his thumb out of his ass.. THis is more a policy vig recommendation though, i dont endorse it on a good play basis.
Nite peepz.
I agree with a large portion of this. What i do not agree with is:
Koshi: Is not necessarily town, but definitely not worth to be discussed as a lynch tomorrow unless he goes back to passive-mode. N1 he has played a lot better than on D1, but i would not call him strong town.
ObviousOne: Obviously town imo.
Pandain: I would put him into the "black" category. He hasn't posted in the other game aswell, might be that he's busy. I don't remember anything from him besides his weird post about Mr.CC/OO. Definitely worth taking a closer look.
Cephiro: I would not vig him. If i remember correctly he posted the first time when there was 1h left into D1. Should be pressured on D2 too.
Coag: I remember him playing quite similarly in Catch 22. I think that's the only game i have played with him, so idk really. Null -> leaning town.
Marv: I'm not as confindent in marv being town than you are.
Zaragon: He is weird. I'd say he's null rather than town.
MattChew: I don't remember anything from him. I think he should do more on D2.
JustAnotherTownie: I don't have a town read on him.
Shoot into Vayne/Stutters/Risen/LoneMeow.
More pressure on Sentinel/FT/Cephiro/Pandain/Mattchew/VE tomorrow. Replacements must contribute. Other people i am pretty sure will contribute either way.
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To elaborate on my read on JAT, my read on him is "angry".
I dunno wtf that means, but that's my read on him atm..
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On September 24 2013 02:43 justanothertownie wrote:
So, am I null to you or do you think I am scum rayn?
Cut by you. :p
I honestly have no idea.
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EBWOP: .. if you are scum or not i mean.
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On September 24 2013 02:47 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 02:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
To elaborate on my read on JAT, my read on him is "angry".
I dunno wtf that means, but that's my read on him atm.. Angry? Are you angry at me? Because I am for sure not angry^^ If you want my opinion on something feel free to ask. Like I said I wont have much time until tomorrow evening so I wont filter dive anyone on my own but if there is something specific you want to know just ask.
I've got nothing to ask atm.
At one point when i discussed something with you (Zaragon if i remember correctly) i felt like your mindset was "fuck you, what the fuck are you talking about, you're an idiot". I might be wrong but it's not relevant atm. I know you will engage into discussions and be active on D2 so i am not bothered about the fact i have no decent read on you atm, as i have a good portion of people to look into.
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On September 24 2013 02:53 kushm4sta wrote:
Lol wtf is the point of all these detailed as Fuck vig lists
I seriously hope you start playing decently on D2 aswell, as you are perfectly capable of doing so.
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To be more precise, these posts:
On September 22 2013 09:50 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 09:40 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So JAT if someone posts something that's mostly fluff your thoughts on it are "big deal?", why? Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out. Yes. Now tell me when I said something different? Your initial answers to OO read me as you were not interested in knowing more about Zaragon. Well, your read is wrong.
I dunno if it has to do with me and my playstyle, or what it is, but this seems kinda... idk.. odd. In comparsion to how you answer DP after that; To me your answers are just short one liners with a mindset that to me reads as "wtf are you trying to do", and to DP you give more complete answers with explanation on your thought process.
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On September 24 2013 02:59 Koshi wrote:
Rayn. I am not going to do anything on D2. Close to nothing.
Even if you are phone posting you will! I know you will if you are town! <3
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Btw JAT, if you are still here. Who are your scumreads?
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On September 24 2013 03:38 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 03:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Btw JAT, if you are still here. Who are your scumreads? I still don't have very strong reads. There are a few people I am relatively confident are town but noone I am sure is scum. People that look bad and come to mind are FT (no improvement and the lynch doesn't make him look better), Risen (I have to admit I don't know this guy at all so maybe he is just a player who doesn't give a fuck at all? - really anti town though), kush (as you said he can do better we will see Day2). I am also slightly suspicious of Mocsta because of his voting behaviour yesterday and because he obviously has a quite strong townread on me (I mean there is nothing wrong with it but the last player who read me town strongly while nobody else did was scum). I wouldn't lynch him though.
Could you elaborate on the lynch thing on FT? Does that make him look worse? I don't really follow what do you mean by "the lynch does not make him look better". Also what specifically on Mocsta's voting behavior looks bad to you? I agree that his townread on you is weird.
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But Mocsta swapped to FT at the last moment. Does that mean anything to you?
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On September 24 2013 03:51 justanothertownie wrote:
If I remember this correctly he switched when ray was clearly in the lead so maybe he wanted to distance himself from the still happening lynch of a townie?
No that's not right. Mocsta switched one minute before the dedaline, the votes were at that time CR (6), FT (3) -> Mocsta made them CR (5), FT (4). Both of CR & FT had yet to vote.
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EPT
