EPTMaybe I'm being too conservative in compensating, however. He could flip scum. I'll think about it more in the morning.
TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir - Page 163
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Maybe I'm being too conservative in compensating, however. He could flip scum. I'll think about it more in the morning. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On September 25 2013 14:44 Pandain wrote: Basically I think he's being lynched more for being bad then for being scum, and I would rather lynch someone based on analysis of being scum. So u think all the points about stutters read as bad play vs scummy motive? You think it is merely bad play to respond to the case the way he has.. given that ppl ARE laying down votes? I am looking forward to your counter wagon on stutters/whoever tomorrow. Because if the above is not scum motive. I have no idea what content will be in your case. | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
On September 25 2013 14:47 Pandain wrote: Also VE why are you lurking? What are you hoping to find? VE died. | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
I'm dumb | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
rayn, i'll address you eventually Marv is scum... in other news i could be wrong and have just talked myself into a nonsensical read. I cant imagine that there wouldnt be some balance to this game, and with so few players that I think are vets and/or good, i find it impossible for them all to be town. Most of the players I have reasoned why I believe them to be town in earlier posts. I am going to try and be as polite and respectful as possible writing this analysis but it probably wont work. Marv has a huge filter, is super active and seems to be the town leader. Who the fuck would want to mess with him, he is one of 2 people in this game that i know of that can be almost unfair as town. I need someone to point out to me anything marv has done that constitutes a case, or an extremely logic'd out read that completely makes sense. I may be out of the loop, but if there's one thing I know, its that Marv will put his entire thought process into the thread. This game he asks 10000 questions, pressures cases/lurkers (relatively softly especially for marv) and barely (if at all) contributes anything unique of his own. Maybe I have too much respect for his town play but to me it feels like he has said almost next to nothing depsite having one of the (if not the) longest filters in the game. The town marv I know is a leader just like in this game, but with an actual direction. His posts feel and read extremely flexible and his play has been extremely go with the flow especially for marv. How long has marv posted thoughts of stutters being scum and not actually pushed a goddamn thing? I still believe in my night 1 logic of him posting without the fear of death. Who the hell else in this game would scare scum? "but mattchew, i haven't been shot as town night 1 in the last like 30813098123 games" yeah well lets look at who's in those games (namely more respected players than here) and how the game has played out. Almost no one said marv was scum before day 2 and its basically been all me since then, why would he not think he was gonna get shot / double stacked at least. ps. bonus points for someone that collects all of marvs posts this game about other games in the past as either defense or deflection. pps townies stop being scared of marv's post count and rep ...........................................................i forget how to page break............................................................................... If VE says "well scum or town can do that" anymore and we listen to him, we will never have an educated lynch target ever. Its annoying. Because I am playing "bad", lets do town reads Yamato, Mocsta and (unfortunately) SNB are like townies number 1. Even though mocsta is wrong with his case on me for not very good reason, he's still town as fuck cause you can see that he actually believes im scum and wants to push it, not that he's just pushing the case to push a mislynch. You all should know why Yamato is town and unless DP knew ahead of his "fuck the world i hate everyone" emo phase that he was leaving the game, it was likely genuine. Ps. Yamato is the homey now, I have seen the light. I am a dumbass and he is smart, lets be friends even if I get mislynched today Kush is most likely town. I dont think he could resist having people listen to him, which when theres no pressure of a lynch of you and you are trolling seems extremely unlikely for scum to do, also he made the best case against me Coag is also most likely town, cause he claims a shot and he has given a tiny bit more of a fuck then he really needed to (lol at me trying to read coag and kush, I must be going crazy) Geript is most likely town cause of his battle with DP (granted me thinking DP is town). I dont know geript but I do know DP and his ability to tunnel. I dont see why any scum would want that amount of attention on themselves and have to get into that much of a pissing match early on. im pretty sure rayn has been pushing people to post better while posting his own thought process. ceph is probably town too, i have him green highlighted and i have to go back to remember why ...........................................................i forget how to page break............................................................................... Players I want to see flip Its weird, I originally had Firmtofu down as a townread (in my own notes), then I called him scum cause of a post because of the reason mentioned there. I think i looked at the first vote too hard thinking him not being lynched caused ray to be lynched, but his push was really after the original Ray (mislynch) push. I need to look into him further tomorrow Stutters could still be scum and honestly has done nothing to prove me wrong about my worries all along, he pushed and tunneled (as in only talked about) kush the entire day 1 and has just now of day 2 had 1 post about lonemeow which represents the opinions many others have already stated. I dont think he has said anything that adapts to this particular game, (kushpolicy and sheeping) somewhere in pandain/sent/zar/jat there just has to be some scum or i will probably cry. I have noticed a lot of weak posting by lonemeow. I have tried not to jump on it too hastily but how many times can i hear something about him being newb or having nothing to add (i think a couple others have said this, and it just makes my blood boil)... the ease in which he has been pushed around is unsettling though, so he's lower than a lot of other people on my "should die" list ...........................................................i forget how to page break............................................................................... other shit other than post more somone needs to tell me what VE has done that makes everyone think hes town all of a sudden. I have seen too many people compliment his improvement, but what the hell has he done because I cant find it in his posts? these people off put me I will not defend myself extensively. To answer basically rayn's entire post, I tried to generate a stutters conversation, but no one would talk to me about it, so in thread, it basically died. it was day 1 and I wasn't extremely confident i have been posting from a phone most of this game, as I read the thread while working. Its something for me to do as I pass the time between surgeries and case studies. I could easily lurk and basically ward off all suspicion by doing so (cause HEY GUYS LURKERS HAVE BASICALLY GOTTEN A FREE PASS THIS GAME) but i dont, and with scum in the position they are currently in, why the fuck wouldn't i do this? (self meta/analyzing is so dirty feeling) mocsta keeps thinking im super easy to read as town, because when i play in a 6-9 person VM game that lasts 20 minutes (which im there and active for) I try to logic shit out (mostly because with that few players, it is actually a logic game) ... this is the basis of his entire case, which so many people have sheeped and jumped on. Isn't it just a little strange the ease in which votes have just been rained down upon me? nah bro's this is totes normal And you all can keep calling my play bad, but I have explained my reads and reasoning (albeit not in long winded posts like here) better than atleast half the players in this game, probably more (as if thats saying much) | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Question. Day1 lynch. U backed off sentinel and then came back on him waving a justice flag. Why did u do this? U admitted prior the read wasn't a strong one, so I don't get the motive to blow that trumpet? I know u have been asked a similar quesyion but I wasn't satisfied with the response. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Would have been nice if u explained why the case was bad. Hasn't changed my mind though. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On September 25 2013 15:11 Mocsta wrote: Thnx mattychew for the spew. Would have been nice if u explained why the case was bad. Hasn't changed my mind though. On September 25 2013 15:08 Mattchew wrote: mocsta keeps thinking im super easy to read as town, because when i play in a 6-9 person VM game that lasts 20 minutes (which im there and active for) I try to logic shit out (mostly because with that few players, it is actually a logic game) ... this is the basis of his entire case, which so many people have sheeped and jumped on. read, then post | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
And the voice mafia part was an addendum based on u being easy to read as town in voice. I admitted the skills don't necessarily transfer. The crux of the case was how u dealt with stutters. That has been ignored in full | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On September 25 2013 15:15 Mocsta wrote: Yeah I saw. And the voice mafia part was an addendum based on u being easy to read as town in voice. I admitted the skills don't necessarily transfer. The crux of the case was how u dealt with stutters. That has been ignored in full On September 25 2013 15:08 Mattchew wrote: To answer basically rayn's entire post, I tried to generate a stutters conversation, but no one would talk to me about it, so in thread, it basically died. it was day 1 and I wasn't extremely confident come on dude | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
On September 25 2013 15:08 Mocsta wrote: Umasi Question. Day1 lynch. U backed off sentinel and then came back on him waving a justice flag. Why did u do this? U admitted prior the read wasn't a strong one, so I don't get the motive to blow that trumpet? I know u have been asked a similar quesyion but I wasn't satisfied with the response. because he was my #1 scumread at the time, and wanted him lynched. Just because I wasn't too confident doesn't mean he wasn't my #1 scumread. the justice flag was a joke though :o | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
U used others to generate the convo in your behalfu even admit it again now When it fails.. u don't even follow up though being around. U come on dude | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On September 25 2013 15:21 Mocsta wrote: Again. That wasn't the crux U used others to generate the convo in your behalfu even admit it again now When it fails.. u don't even follow up though being around. U come on dude cause time of activity = alignment I tried to use others to generate any conversation about a player I had a read early on in the game. I was hoping that someone would give me any insight into what I was thinking in terms of it being right or wrong. I dont regret my vote on yamato, although in hindsight I would have liked to have been around (i dont think i was around but idk) and help lynched FT cause after you and wave posted reasons for him not being scum i knew that was a bad lynch | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
I just don't buy it, for all the reasons explained here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=143#2850 Its pretty easy to see that you have skimmed and produced minute details to attack the case that people were voting for you; and then tried to glamour this up by making a counter-?case? on marv + giving out some premature reads 24hrs before flip. Ultimately, you're still my scum read. I am not going to argue with you about whether you are scum. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
Here's the problem that I'm seeing: town got into a shitty place on D1 which is amazing for scum (yes part of that is my fault) and the best priority for scum in this type of situation is to do their best to keep it that way. So the highest priority for scum is not to remove blues but rather to remove people who can bring the thread on track. WoS is ignored half the time despite being a decent player. Yam can bring a thread on track but just as often derail a thread into "No You're scum" posting. Vayne (if he was a scum shot) is intentionally worthless until endgame. Rather my priority as scum would be to remove active quality players of which the available shots would be: VE, Marv, DP (prior to rage quit), Mocsta, Rayn and a few others. So what's the point in shooting WoS or Yam/Vayne over any of those five. I'm honestly not seeing it. There's a shit ton of scum (6); there's an amazing KP rate (1/2 round up), town seems to be mostly inactive. Where's any sort of benefit of not trying to remove the "get on track" type people to keep the thread in a clusterfucked situation? I've only seen odd kills like this in two drastically different situations: mostly inactive scum where NKs going through is far more important than anything else and mostly active experienced scum where they need a bit of time to hide before it becomes obvious. I'm not sure that Mattchew is right about Marv, but I really think that we should be taking hard looks at Marv/VE/etc. again because I'd bet that a number of the "pro scummers" are scum. | ||
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