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Not only am I comparing myself to you, but I am claiming that I have been more transparent and have been pushing my scumspects harder than you have, consistently, throughout the game.
In fact, the only one I can be sure of that you suspect of being a Blackfyre is me, and I have felt zero pressure from you.
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On August 13 2013 05:10 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote:
I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post.
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway
I think DI would be a terrible stabbing, and seeing as I am a lord, I am happy to coordinate our swords in our small council. For the record, I think Risen would be a pretty bad target for stabbing as well. Your case against him was refreshing, but I am not convinced and am really looking forward to his case on Rayn.
You know what. Birds, stone, and stuff. @Xatalos: write up a case on whoever you feel is most deserving and I'll write out my thoughts on Rayn.
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On August 13 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:
Not only am I comparing myself to you, but I am claiming that I have been more transparent and have been pushing my scumspects harder than you have, consistently, throughout the game.
In fact, the only one I can be sure of that you suspect of being a Blackfyre is me, and I have felt zero pressure from you. .............. What have you done except throwing slight suspicion at most people in the game? What I have done: - Pressured grackaroni during N0 (for his passive attitude to the vote) - Pushed you for most of the game, ranging from slight suspicion to great suspicion - Pushed Risen starting earlier today - Softpushed several more people (every push can't be a hard push sadly)
You haven't pushed me, I can attest to that. At best you are starting now, but your earlier suspicions can be summarized by you every now and then interjecting that you think I'm a Blackfyre, with no reasons or any useful pressure to speak of. I have been ignoring it until now because of the utter lack of conviction behind it and figure it is just the same as in PTP when you had nonsense reasons that just went away during the game.
You started "pushing" Risen AFTER Strongandbig's case. I call that bandwagoning. You have not made an original case this entire game.
I have no idea whether you pushed Grack or not, because it happened at night, in private missives.
As for softpushing, if it was any softer than you pushed me, it must have had an adverse effect. In fact, it probably did, because I can't remember any of it. I remember some of your town reads, but that is it. Your liege seems to think you are a loyalist, and the happenings at night seem to indicate that also, but I find your claims to activity beyond preposterous.
Now make that case on me or shut up about it.
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The disgraced lord Raynpelikoneet is a Blackfyre.
It first got my attention when he was excessively pedantic over a small mistake I made. Even accounting for differences in Common between the Iron Isles and the Reach, it was clear to everybody else that I had simply confused matters, yet Rayn went on and on and on WITHOUT a point:
On August 09 2013 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 04:36 Acrofales wrote:On August 09 2013 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Quote me please Acrofales. Where ever i give an opinion on Grack? Nowhere? Stags, Krakens, Lions, it's all the same to me. I'm here to catch Dragon pretenders. Then what do you mean by this: Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 04:22 Acrofales wrote:On August 09 2013 04:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Acrofales do you think Grackaroni is mafia? All I know about Grackaroni is what you have told me, which is not conclusive at all. How am I to form an opinion without more information about your internal bickerings over there on those godforsaken isles? ?????
There was no point to be made. He wasn't protesting his innocence. He wasn't catching me out on something that could come from a Blackfyre, he was just being pedantic. While not necessarily indicative of being a Blackfyre, there is clearly no loyalist motive for being so pedantic and sidetracking the conversation, so he had perked my interest.
My next discussion with him was what made me really made me suspect him, and everybody already knows about it, but I will repeat it in different words, just to make it clear, again. Here is my earlier speech, from the archives, and I suggest you read it:
On August 09 2013 08:11 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:57 johnnywup wrote:
Acro, I'm confused. What are you talking about? Keep in mind the rest of the thread can't read the PMs between you two. Okay, here's what happened. Not being able to cite from my Maester's records is really complicating this matter. I told rayn that we were having a discussion in our house about the use of our healing magic and asked him what he thought was the best use of it. In particular, my original question mentioned that it seemed risky to use, as had been emphasized to me by both the Red Viper and Sharrant: if the information falls into the pretenders' hands, they will be able to better use their armies, whereas the advantage for coordinating our own swords seems secondary to this. Rayn answered with a similar observation, and seemed suspicious of WHY I thought it might be advantageous to use now. I answered that I initially had thought that it could be useful to coordinate our loyalist swords in order to not overcommit on any particular Blackfyre suspect. But I emphasized that the risk was greater than the reward. I also made an allusion to the plan concocted by Sharrant, the Red Viper and myself to perhaps catch Blackfyre scum using our magics, but this plan relies somewhat on secrecy and I am not divulging its workings in public. This post triggered the initial outburst in the thread, where rayn basically called me out for being a Blackfyre myself based on my supposed will to use the magic immediately. After I recognized what he might have misinterpreted in my original answer, I offered him an olive branch, pointing out what was probably the root of the misunderstanding and thinking I might have overreacted with his "misrepresenting my words". His response to that was that he would back down from his accusations if I told him about the plan. I don't take well to being blackmailed, and I certainly don't think blackmailing someone is a loyalist attitude. I am now convinced he is a Blackfyre infiltrant who is desperate for this information that might put a stop to their dastardly plans.
A brief summary: he offered to back down from his accusations if I gave him information that could potentially hurt the Blackfyre cause. The details of the plan are irrelevant, because neither he, nor I, knew the "plan" had been posted in public hours ago by this point. He was trying to strongarm me into giving information that a loyalist would not need, nor want. The obvious reason is because he is a Blackfyre
Since then I have been gathering evidence:
Careful probing of Baratheon politics
Raynpelikoneet is very happy to meddle and probe and fiddle and try to figure out what is happening, but at no point does he draw any conclusions. Nowhere does he mention anything about whether anything that happened in Baratheon was a Blackfyre plot. Here are his posts, it is a running commentary, with some slapdash questions: if anything, he is trying to figure out what happened, not whether there were questionable motives involved:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 08 2013 23:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi did you replace in before or after Dandel replaced out? (in NWM, not this game) On August 08 2013 23:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Solstice and Chromatically, could you comment on this DI/Koshi thingy? Which side of this do yout interactions with them support? Or is it something else? On August 09 2013 06:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah Solstice´s logic is really fishy.
That last post is his "conclusion". It is about as stand-offish and non-committal as you can get, just waiting for other people to voice their opinion. When they do, he is finally ready to voice his opinion:
On August 10 2013 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay, we need to start deciding stuff soon.
iamp, i am okay with your proposed shot. Lord KP should be used to vig lurkers, at least on N1.
How many of the lords do we want to vig a single target? 2? more? For me 2 seems fine.
As for lynch targets, so far i think:
Solstice - I called his thought process fishy earlier. This is what i meant. Solstice does not want Dandel to be a lord. He says, when Dandel is town, he probably does good stuff as a lord. When he is scum, he will most likely out himself. Then he doesn´t want to elect Dandel, because he can´t be sure if he is town. I don´t like that, at all. By Solstice´s thinking, he should definitely elect Dandel and noone else. It will give him a near 100% read on Dandel, as he himself said. Why does he not want to immediately figure out Dandel´s alignment? Later on he says that "Dandel will out him either way". Has he? I see no mention of Dandel´s alignment by Solstice after that.
<snip>
Remember guys! I was the first to call his logic bad. I didn't draw any conclusions at the time, but now that all of you think he's a Blackfyre, I am ready to support that. Just remember that I got there first! I will now rehash other people's arguments as if they are my own. Completely unconvincing. Also note the lack of a vote. About as non-committal a way of calling someone a Blackfyre as I have ever seen.
The Stark suspicion
Concurrently with the clusterfuck that happened in House Baratheon, the Starks were spilling their dirty laundry as well. Once again, Rayn is very careful to skirt the fray without diving in:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 09 2013 01:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote:
What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. What was the point of intentionally ignore SnB questioning you about your lie, multiple times as he said? What kind of reaction you were hoping for? And how did REDACTED act? Does he come townie to you or what? On August 09 2013 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 01:34 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote:
What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. What was the point of intentionally ignore SnB questioning you about your lie, multiple times as he said? What kind of reaction you were hoping for? And how did REDACTED act? Does he come townie to you or what? I think he's town, yes. Although not for his reaction to what I said. Thought he was scum for a little bit but that changed. Also not because of his reaction. So yeah that part was kinda fruitless. Got a real strong townread on snb though. On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote:
What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. It's not much of a plan if I just tell him straight away "oh I'm fishing for a reaction from you" You didn´t really answer me. If you are doing a reaction test you will know he will call you out for lying. You MUST have an answer to that (for reference see what i did in NWM N1) before it happens. Also when doing reaction tests in off thread comm games you basically gotta have a back up. Someone you tell what are you up to before you do it. Without that reaction tests are either stupid or scum. Mafia can after every mistake they make say "oh, it was just a reaction test", and everyone should believe them? So what was your intention during this whole thing that went on N0 in your place? On August 09 2013 01:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can these other reason be told in thread SnB?
If they somehow prove Clarity is town we are wasting time in this because this in my opinion does not 100% prove Clarity is scum. At least yet. On August 09 2013 02:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
SnB, Clarity and REDACTED:
Why can´t you just tell what the reasons for REDACTED is to think Clarity is town?
You are pushing the issue under the carpet after making such a scene out of it first. Why is that? On August 09 2013 02:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 02:41 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 02:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
SnB, Clarity and REDACTED:
Why can´t you just tell what the reasons for REDACTED is to think Clarity is town?
You are pushing the issue under the carpet after making such a scene out of it first. Why is that? I'm sure REDACTED will be here at some point and if I'm in danger of being lynched he'll probably share it. Assume he didn't have a read on me, would you want to lynch me? If i wanted, i would be voting for you. I do not know, that´s why i am trying to focus on other stuff. I am missing a part of information i fell is important to have a better read on you. Someone can give me that information but 3 people are refusing to do so. It´s retarded. What do you think of FT & Onegu? On August 09 2013 02:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 02:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok so im REDACTED in SnB's conversation with clarity.
So events happened like this.
I was talking to clarity, and he told me SnB's rolename out of NOWHERE. Ok. So I asked him for his rolename. And he declined giving reasons like, 'scum can bluesnipe rolenames'. Which sounds like crap to me. But whatever.
Eventually, I decided to fakeclaim 1 shot rolename alignment check because he wouldnt tell me his rolename. After I said that, he gave it up willingly. I then came back and pm'ed him that the result was that its a fake role name. Fakeclaim. Which means he is scum. He then said something along the lines of 'ok dude' And nothing else. So that makes me think he is town cause he doesnt have an overt reaction. I dunno. Thoughts guys? I read all of this and i´m like wtf? I am clueless.. There are some more, but they are just more of the same
Of particular interest are the one that I bolded in red, and the last one. In both, he desperately wants someone else to take the lead and TELL him what to think of this. My conclusion from reading Oats' response was: I see no reason for Clarity to do this as a Blackfyre. It is at worst, a null tell. Oats' weird reaction test seemed more like it came from a Blackfyre motive, although none of it is very conclusive. But what struck me as weird is Rayn wants people to tell him what to think. If someone else thought it was suspicious he could then easily jump on the wagon.
Chasing lynchbait
In my humble opinion, johnnywup is the most obvious lynchbait in the thread. Rayn spends a lot of time going after him. In fact, it is the only suspect he has not yet recanted on. But he did forget about who his suspects were...
On August 12 2013 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don´t think yamato is town, and all my scumreads basically claimed blue..
On August 12 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
besides johnnywup..
Making suspects up on the spot? Hell yeah. Checked that tickbox. The suspects are SO real that he forgets about them!
In closing, Rayn is a Blackfyre pretender, and we should kill him tomorrow.
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On August 13 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:17 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 05:10 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote:
I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post.
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway I think DI would be a terrible stabbing, and seeing as I am a lord, I am happy to coordinate our swords in our small council. For the record, I think Risen would be a pretty bad target for stabbing as well. Your case against him was refreshing, but I am not convinced and am really looking forward to his case on Rayn. You know what. Birds, stone, and stuff. @Xatalos: write up a case on whoever you feel is most deserving and I'll write out my thoughts on Rayn. I think you're quite deserving but iamperfection keeps saying me you're town so I try to hold back. Otherwise I'm starting to lean town on strongandbig and Koshi. The ones I have mostly started to lean scum on are Risen, jrkirby, Vivax and Ace. I think I've made my point about Risen already at several points in my filter today so let's make a case on jrkirby. 1) Lurking pretty hard but trying to look like he's making some effort at least. This even had me mistaking him as town earlier. But on second thought, this is exactly the most scummy position: overall useless, but appears to be a bit useful. This is the classic scum play. 2) Very soft and wishy-washy in his accusations. I dare you to read through his posts and find even one clear stance about anything. You could argue that about his "scumlist" post, maybe, but it was basically just a list of names that he didn't do anything with. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:11 jrkirby wrote:On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
Ok, you're leaning town on him, but your afraid of electing him because electing him will allow us to know for sure if he's scum? Is anyone else thinking this logic is dumb? Catching a guaranteed scum for giving mafia an extra KP and HP check is totally worth it. And you didn't even think that was likely. So... why not vote for him? + Show Spoiler +I just got caught up on the thread. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:49 jrkirby wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, finally caught up again. This thread grew 15 pages while I was reading 10. People I want lynched/shot: 1) s0lstice. He claimed he didn't want to elect DI even though he thought that could easily determine if DI was scum. Enough reason to lynch right here. 2) sharant. I've heard he has a bunch of PM's but I haven't seen them. When he get into the thread he just starts defending Kush out of nowhere. None of it seems that useful and the evidence is largely meta. Kush hasn't been getting that much pressure anyway, so why does he need to defend like this? 3) oatsmaster. He posted a bunch of useless arguing with yamato at the beginning, which would be good if he had started making scumcases by now, but he's mostly given out townreads with the occasional we should lynch X with no real case. 4) Yamato. He is clearly the scummiest guy in our house. He didn't PM me until nearly the end of N0 for me to realize I got his real username wrong, and also was asking oberyn and onegu to vote for him. His arguments with oats just served to lengthen the thread without any real substance, and he hasn't posted any scumreads with substance. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 09:42 jrkirby wrote:
I just checked tofu's filter. Yeah, that guys is always way more active than this. That's not guaranteed scum, but it certainly is a sign. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 09:52 jrkirby wrote:Why does s&b say: On August 10 2013 06:06 strongandbig wrote:
i also wouldn't mind lynching acro for playing in character. That seems scummy. It would make sense if he asked acro to stop playing in character, but lynch him for it? Also this is after Oberyn puts his vote on acro. Perhaps he's trying to push a wagon on someone he knows is town. The rest of his filter seems fine, but that's pretty scummy there. 3) Likes to fill his filter with useless setup speculation when the topic was already over with. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:35 jrkirby wrote:
Finally, why have all the houses not posted a list of their members yet?
I think that it's actually beneficial to town to post these lists, and here's why:
1) Once scum have a list of 5 of the houses, they have a list of every house.
2) in a 24 player game, scum almost guaranteed have 4-6 members. Scum are spread out (I think it's random or something, right?) so they already know probably 3-4 houses at the start.
3) 2 (or is it 3?) houses have already posted their list. There's a good chance this fills in the missing info for scum.
4) All the house lists will probably be posted by day 2 anyway. Scum will only be missing this info for a short time.
5) Scum know all the lords already. This further helps them fill in the gaps.
6) Knowing the houses is not too beneficial to scum. Scum are more likely to want to eliminate every non-scum player in a house than an entire house (based off my possibly flawed logic - they can use this to WIFOM, be careful).
7) Knowing the houses is beneficial to town. We can help predict who will be lord in later days, we can help predict who is likely to be shot. We know who can PM a certain player, so it's easier to find people with reads on them. We don't think two people are on a scumteam together when they're just house buddies. Things are simpler, we don't get confused when REDACTED is posted. The list goes on.
8) Displaying all houses gives more info to town than it gives to scum.
9) Transparency is beneficial to town, and giving out house lists helps with transparency.
I can think of one good reason why we might not want to give out house lists:
1) There might be 3P that wants to eliminate a house, or secondary objectives for scum to eliminate a house. This is entirely speculation though, so I don't put too much weight into it. 4) What originally got my attention was Oberyn's post about yamato and jrkirby not being interested to PM with each other. This line of thought is even confirmed by jrkirby himself: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:58 jrkirby wrote:On August 10 2013 06:54 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 10 2013 06:52 jrkirby wrote:
Also, Onegu is probably the biggest reason why we elected Oberyn, so if one of them is scum, there's a decent chance the other is scum too. Could you explain this please? The first PM I got from onegu was that we should elect oberyn because he was experienced. I PM'd Oberyn a bunch before deciding to elect oberyn, but the campaign kinda started with onegu. Without the association though, this isn't inherently scummy in my opinion. He doesn't mention yamato at all regarding the process to elect Oberyn? So there you go. Your turn, Acro.
Really???? Your major case is on a lurker who us noble folk already want to stab? The case on jrkirby is far far simpler than that and there was no need to quote any of his posts.
His D1 was terribad, he has gone afk and from Martell politics it looks like he's in cahoots with Yamato. Lets kill!
Now tell me something I didn't know.
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On August 13 2013 05:54 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:51 Xatalos wrote:
Someone other than us two answer this. Does anyone think I could possibly be more wishy-washy than Acro? Even a single person? Anyone who reads the filter will tell you Acro is softer. Whether this is a product of the RP or not is another thing entirely. I don't like how Acro defended me just now, especially in conjunction with my case on Shar.
Yeah, I'm done defending you. I was waiting for a case on Rayn, who is confirmed scum according to you. Instead we get some fucking bonkers connection case on Sharrant. Yes, he's a lurker. But no, he's not scum. He's lurking town, or a fucking ballzy scum. Like, insanely so. I guess he could have looked through my filter and decided I would definitely mention SOME Blackfyre pretender if he asked me whom to check, but I don't get the feeling at all that that is what happened.
All the rest is ridiculous speculation.
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On August 13 2013 05:57 Oberyn wrote:
While there is more merit to a detective with a red check being mafia than usual in this case, I don't think he's a great night shot and would rather have him discussed for a lynch at some point in the future. It's worth noting that Sharrant claimed a 1-shot cop at a point where the thread believed a 1-shot medic existed and yamato put no effort into fighting the red check.
Actually he claimed 1-shot cop wayyyy before that. But that was in private, so there's not much I can do except tell you to trust me.
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On August 13 2013 06:31 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 06:20 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 05:17 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 05:10 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote:
I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post.
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway I think DI would be a terrible stabbing, and seeing as I am a lord, I am happy to coordinate our swords in our small council. For the record, I think Risen would be a pretty bad target for stabbing as well. Your case against him was refreshing, but I am not convinced and am really looking forward to his case on Rayn. You know what. Birds, stone, and stuff. @Xatalos: write up a case on whoever you feel is most deserving and I'll write out my thoughts on Rayn. I think you're quite deserving but iamperfection keeps saying me you're town so I try to hold back. Otherwise I'm starting to lean town on strongandbig and Koshi. The ones I have mostly started to lean scum on are Risen, jrkirby, Vivax and Ace. I think I've made my point about Risen already at several points in my filter today so let's make a case on jrkirby. 1) Lurking pretty hard but trying to look like he's making some effort at least. This even had me mistaking him as town earlier. But on second thought, this is exactly the most scummy position: overall useless, but appears to be a bit useful. This is the classic scum play. 2) Very soft and wishy-washy in his accusations. I dare you to read through his posts and find even one clear stance about anything. You could argue that about his "scumlist" post, maybe, but it was basically just a list of names that he didn't do anything with. On August 09 2013 06:11 jrkirby wrote:On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
Ok, you're leaning town on him, but your afraid of electing him because electing him will allow us to know for sure if he's scum? Is anyone else thinking this logic is dumb? Catching a guaranteed scum for giving mafia an extra KP and HP check is totally worth it. And you didn't even think that was likely. So... why not vote for him? + Show Spoiler +I just got caught up on the thread. On August 10 2013 06:49 jrkirby wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, finally caught up again. This thread grew 15 pages while I was reading 10. People I want lynched/shot: 1) s0lstice. He claimed he didn't want to elect DI even though he thought that could easily determine if DI was scum. Enough reason to lynch right here. 2) sharant. I've heard he has a bunch of PM's but I haven't seen them. When he get into the thread he just starts defending Kush out of nowhere. None of it seems that useful and the evidence is largely meta. Kush hasn't been getting that much pressure anyway, so why does he need to defend like this? 3) oatsmaster. He posted a bunch of useless arguing with yamato at the beginning, which would be good if he had started making scumcases by now, but he's mostly given out townreads with the occasional we should lynch X with no real case. 4) Yamato. He is clearly the scummiest guy in our house. He didn't PM me until nearly the end of N0 for me to realize I got his real username wrong, and also was asking oberyn and onegu to vote for him. His arguments with oats just served to lengthen the thread without any real substance, and he hasn't posted any scumreads with substance. On August 10 2013 09:42 jrkirby wrote:
I just checked tofu's filter. Yeah, that guys is always way more active than this. That's not guaranteed scum, but it certainly is a sign. On August 10 2013 09:52 jrkirby wrote:Why does s&b say: On August 10 2013 06:06 strongandbig wrote:
i also wouldn't mind lynching acro for playing in character. That seems scummy. It would make sense if he asked acro to stop playing in character, but lynch him for it? Also this is after Oberyn puts his vote on acro. Perhaps he's trying to push a wagon on someone he knows is town. The rest of his filter seems fine, but that's pretty scummy there. 3) Likes to fill his filter with useless setup speculation when the topic was already over with. On August 09 2013 06:35 jrkirby wrote:
Finally, why have all the houses not posted a list of their members yet?
I think that it's actually beneficial to town to post these lists, and here's why:
1) Once scum have a list of 5 of the houses, they have a list of every house.
2) in a 24 player game, scum almost guaranteed have 4-6 members. Scum are spread out (I think it's random or something, right?) so they already know probably 3-4 houses at the start.
3) 2 (or is it 3?) houses have already posted their list. There's a good chance this fills in the missing info for scum.
4) All the house lists will probably be posted by day 2 anyway. Scum will only be missing this info for a short time.
5) Scum know all the lords already. This further helps them fill in the gaps.
6) Knowing the houses is not too beneficial to scum. Scum are more likely to want to eliminate every non-scum player in a house than an entire house (based off my possibly flawed logic - they can use this to WIFOM, be careful).
7) Knowing the houses is beneficial to town. We can help predict who will be lord in later days, we can help predict who is likely to be shot. We know who can PM a certain player, so it's easier to find people with reads on them. We don't think two people are on a scumteam together when they're just house buddies. Things are simpler, we don't get confused when REDACTED is posted. The list goes on.
8) Displaying all houses gives more info to town than it gives to scum.
9) Transparency is beneficial to town, and giving out house lists helps with transparency.
I can think of one good reason why we might not want to give out house lists:
1) There might be 3P that wants to eliminate a house, or secondary objectives for scum to eliminate a house. This is entirely speculation though, so I don't put too much weight into it. 4) What originally got my attention was Oberyn's post about yamato and jrkirby not being interested to PM with each other. This line of thought is even confirmed by jrkirby himself: On August 10 2013 06:58 jrkirby wrote:On August 10 2013 06:54 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 10 2013 06:52 jrkirby wrote:
Also, Onegu is probably the biggest reason why we elected Oberyn, so if one of them is scum, there's a decent chance the other is scum too. Could you explain this please? The first PM I got from onegu was that we should elect oberyn because he was experienced. I PM'd Oberyn a bunch before deciding to elect oberyn, but the campaign kinda started with onegu. Without the association though, this isn't inherently scummy in my opinion. He doesn't mention yamato at all regarding the process to elect Oberyn? So there you go. Your turn, Acro. Really???? Your major case is on a lurker who us noble folk already want to stab? The case on jrkirby is far far simpler than that and there was no need to quote any of his posts. His D1 was terribad, he has gone afk and from Martell politics it looks like he's in cahoots with Yamato. Lets kill! Now tell me something I didn't know. So we agree, it seems. Why didn't you mention these points I mentioned before then, though? Or did you somewhere? Maybe some of them, but truly it shouldn't hurt to flesh out a case. I'd say you didn't know about Risen's inconsistent thought process before I mentioned it.
I knew Risen's inconsistent thought process from way back in the day. As should you, because we met him at our very first tourney and he was just as fucking ridiculous as he is now.
I have to say that he fooled me with his crazy upside down logic at the Chrono Trigger tournament, where he used it to great effect as a traitor to our cause. But Risen playing like Risen does not really surprise me at all.
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Oh, and my thoughts on jrkirby's terribad D1 are in my post about him on D1 and where I bloody well voted for him. There really wasn't any point in making a monster case. You click on his filter and see that he was absolutely bloody useless. Why waste words?
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On August 13 2013 06:48 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 06:46 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 06:31 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 06:20 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 05:17 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 05:10 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote:
I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post.
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway I think DI would be a terrible stabbing, and seeing as I am a lord, I am happy to coordinate our swords in our small council. For the record, I think Risen would be a pretty bad target for stabbing as well. Your case against him was refreshing, but I am not convinced and am really looking forward to his case on Rayn. You know what. Birds, stone, and stuff. @Xatalos: write up a case on whoever you feel is most deserving and I'll write out my thoughts on Rayn. I think you're quite deserving but iamperfection keeps saying me you're town so I try to hold back. Otherwise I'm starting to lean town on strongandbig and Koshi. The ones I have mostly started to lean scum on are Risen, jrkirby, Vivax and Ace. I think I've made my point about Risen already at several points in my filter today so let's make a case on jrkirby. 1) Lurking pretty hard but trying to look like he's making some effort at least. This even had me mistaking him as town earlier. But on second thought, this is exactly the most scummy position: overall useless, but appears to be a bit useful. This is the classic scum play. 2) Very soft and wishy-washy in his accusations. I dare you to read through his posts and find even one clear stance about anything. You could argue that about his "scumlist" post, maybe, but it was basically just a list of names that he didn't do anything with. On August 09 2013 06:11 jrkirby wrote:On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
Ok, you're leaning town on him, but your afraid of electing him because electing him will allow us to know for sure if he's scum? Is anyone else thinking this logic is dumb? Catching a guaranteed scum for giving mafia an extra KP and HP check is totally worth it. And you didn't even think that was likely. So... why not vote for him? + Show Spoiler +I just got caught up on the thread. On August 10 2013 06:49 jrkirby wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, finally caught up again. This thread grew 15 pages while I was reading 10. People I want lynched/shot: 1) s0lstice. He claimed he didn't want to elect DI even though he thought that could easily determine if DI was scum. Enough reason to lynch right here. 2) sharant. I've heard he has a bunch of PM's but I haven't seen them. When he get into the thread he just starts defending Kush out of nowhere. None of it seems that useful and the evidence is largely meta. Kush hasn't been getting that much pressure anyway, so why does he need to defend like this? 3) oatsmaster. He posted a bunch of useless arguing with yamato at the beginning, which would be good if he had started making scumcases by now, but he's mostly given out townreads with the occasional we should lynch X with no real case. 4) Yamato. He is clearly the scummiest guy in our house. He didn't PM me until nearly the end of N0 for me to realize I got his real username wrong, and also was asking oberyn and onegu to vote for him. His arguments with oats just served to lengthen the thread without any real substance, and he hasn't posted any scumreads with substance. On August 10 2013 09:42 jrkirby wrote:
I just checked tofu's filter. Yeah, that guys is always way more active than this. That's not guaranteed scum, but it certainly is a sign. On August 10 2013 09:52 jrkirby wrote:Why does s&b say: On August 10 2013 06:06 strongandbig wrote:
i also wouldn't mind lynching acro for playing in character. That seems scummy. It would make sense if he asked acro to stop playing in character, but lynch him for it? Also this is after Oberyn puts his vote on acro. Perhaps he's trying to push a wagon on someone he knows is town. The rest of his filter seems fine, but that's pretty scummy there. 3) Likes to fill his filter with useless setup speculation when the topic was already over with. On August 09 2013 06:35 jrkirby wrote:
Finally, why have all the houses not posted a list of their members yet?
I think that it's actually beneficial to town to post these lists, and here's why:
1) Once scum have a list of 5 of the houses, they have a list of every house.
2) in a 24 player game, scum almost guaranteed have 4-6 members. Scum are spread out (I think it's random or something, right?) so they already know probably 3-4 houses at the start.
3) 2 (or is it 3?) houses have already posted their list. There's a good chance this fills in the missing info for scum.
4) All the house lists will probably be posted by day 2 anyway. Scum will only be missing this info for a short time.
5) Scum know all the lords already. This further helps them fill in the gaps.
6) Knowing the houses is not too beneficial to scum. Scum are more likely to want to eliminate every non-scum player in a house than an entire house (based off my possibly flawed logic - they can use this to WIFOM, be careful).
7) Knowing the houses is beneficial to town. We can help predict who will be lord in later days, we can help predict who is likely to be shot. We know who can PM a certain player, so it's easier to find people with reads on them. We don't think two people are on a scumteam together when they're just house buddies. Things are simpler, we don't get confused when REDACTED is posted. The list goes on.
8) Displaying all houses gives more info to town than it gives to scum.
9) Transparency is beneficial to town, and giving out house lists helps with transparency.
I can think of one good reason why we might not want to give out house lists:
1) There might be 3P that wants to eliminate a house, or secondary objectives for scum to eliminate a house. This is entirely speculation though, so I don't put too much weight into it. 4) What originally got my attention was Oberyn's post about yamato and jrkirby not being interested to PM with each other. This line of thought is even confirmed by jrkirby himself: On August 10 2013 06:58 jrkirby wrote:On August 10 2013 06:54 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 10 2013 06:52 jrkirby wrote:
Also, Onegu is probably the biggest reason why we elected Oberyn, so if one of them is scum, there's a decent chance the other is scum too. Could you explain this please? The first PM I got from onegu was that we should elect oberyn because he was experienced. I PM'd Oberyn a bunch before deciding to elect oberyn, but the campaign kinda started with onegu. Without the association though, this isn't inherently scummy in my opinion. He doesn't mention yamato at all regarding the process to elect Oberyn? So there you go. Your turn, Acro. Really???? Your major case is on a lurker who us noble folk already want to stab? The case on jrkirby is far far simpler than that and there was no need to quote any of his posts. His D1 was terribad, he has gone afk and from Martell politics it looks like he's in cahoots with Yamato. Lets kill! Now tell me something I didn't know. So we agree, it seems. Why didn't you mention these points I mentioned before then, though? Or did you somewhere? Maybe some of them, but truly it shouldn't hurt to flesh out a case. I'd say you didn't know about Risen's inconsistent thought process before I mentioned it. I knew Risen's inconsistent thought process from way back in the day. As should you, because we met him at our very first tourney and he was just as fucking ridiculous as he is now. I have to say that he fooled me with his crazy upside down logic at the Chrono Trigger tournament, where he used it to great effect as a traitor to our cause. But Risen playing like Risen does not really surprise me at all. I wasn't talking about his utterly terrible reads. I was talking about his inconsistent logic regarding his "suspicion" of me and DI.
OOC, because describing meta in character is a pain in the ass:
I have to admit it feels a lot like his stance at the start of Chrono Trigger (where he was smurfing and was scum). He explained his way out of it by claiming to be batshit insane. Pretty much the same as he has done here. But I'm not sure that's part of his scum meta, or just part of his Risen meta. Given the other games I've played with him I tend to believe the latter.
I can't get a bead on him, but using fucked up bonkers logic to paint literally anybody as scum seems to be his usual play, not his scum game. He does it as scum as well, though.
At this point I'm not opposed to just shooting him in the face, though. He yelled that Rayn is scum, but refuses to say why and the impression I got from his town games is that he is more active, whereas as scum he tends to go awol for long stretches of time.
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On August 13 2013 06:18 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:42 Risen wrote:
...
How this reads to me...
"Oh, I wasn't expecting to be revealed as a cop even though I told someone I couldn't possibly know was town I was a cop thereby potentially opening myself up to a kill from scum negating my entire role! In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target kush right after explaining to the thread that kush was initially a target and could possibly be scum and as I don't know acro is town he could very well have mafia kill me for that!"
If that isn't the worst explanation of something I have ever seen in a mafia game I don't know what is. He later says a scum Acro might have been trying to push him off Kush, but why not just kill you instead? Why doesn't scum look at that and say, "Well he claims to be one shot, but what if he can actually reuse the ability?" then kill him. A town cop doesn't not see this possibility. This only comes up when a scum team member trying to emulate a cop slips up. this is actually a decent point imo, by far the best point in this post and something we should actually make sharrant explain.
I actually agree with this too. I just don't get the feeling that that is the way it went down. But I'll let him explain.
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On August 13 2013 06:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ acro, you just described his town meta (or at least, this is how he was in titanic)
I'm also curious why johnny is lynchbait
Anyway, gnight
I think Ser Wup is lynch bait, because I think he's a loyalist, yet the minutes of our meeting are filled with cases explaining his rebellious intentions. Most of them are trumped up bullshit and some are somewhat okay, but I hardly think they're conclusive (or I wouldn't think he's a loyalist of course). The more he responded to them, the more people seemed convinced he is a Blackfyre, despite his responses actually sounding sincere. Also in our private missives I have no reason to suspect him.
But we should hear from him soon, he is catching up and will hopefully speak up soon.
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On August 13 2013 09:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 09:49 iamperfection wrote:On August 13 2013 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wtf is it with people hunting town and not hunting scum?
It´s not the town things they du but the scummy things. Do you have any opinion on what Xatalos said about me or not? well i think your town too so i dont really think much about it at all. Well maybe you should start. Seriously, part of Acrofales' case is this: Acro: "Your interactions with Grack...." Me: "Tell me where i ever talk you about Grack" Acro: "You didn't" Me: "Then why do you say this (quote)" Arco: "There was no point to be made. He wasn't protesting his innocence. He wasn't catching me out on something that could come from a Blackfyre, he was just being pedantic. While not necessarily indicative of being a Blackfyre, there is clearly no loyalist motive for being so pedantic and sidetracking the conversation, so he had perked my interest." WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT? I am calling the dude out lying and he is trying to use it against me in his case? And Xatalos is all "yeha dude that's some good shit on rayn, go on, let's vig him!" Nothing sounds bullshit to you here iamp?
Walk me through this: you caught me out the lie where:
You asked me about my opinion on Grackaroni
I told you I had no idea about Grackaroni except what you said had happened in private
This was clearly a mistake, because you had never said anything about talking to Grack in private, and are in a different corner of the realm and thus could not possibly have been in private contact with him.
This "lie" was so humongous that after I admit the mistake and say that I was confused, you felt the need to continue hammering it in for at least 2 posts.
What were you attempting to accomplish? Why even bother? Where was the Blackfyre motivation behind this "lie" that you had caught me out in? Or were you just screwing around for no apparent reason?
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On August 13 2013 10:08 kushm4sta wrote:
im not trying to piss you off rayne but sharrant and acro are town because of PMs.
Why does dandel think acro is scum? were there ever any reasons backing that up or just feels?
Wait what? You just told me you think Sharrant is Blackfyre. What the hell?
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On August 13 2013 11:04 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 10:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why do you think people called Acro scum and Sharrant town at the start of D2?
Especially Xatalos. i dont know perhaps you should ask them, acros action towards the lynch weren't to good didn't seem like he cared about it.
Honestly, I didn't. I was rather drunk and the lynch was aimed at a scummy lurker I had pegged as a scummy lurker. Turns out I was wrong. Mea culpa. But at the time I was happy with throwing FT to the angry townsfolk of King's Landing, but was in no state to reevaluate anything and was just around for the ride.
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On August 13 2013 11:53 s0Lstice wrote:and ps, something that bothers me in particular about Acro is how he treated Oats Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:54 Acrofales wrote:On August 09 2013 02:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok so im REDACTED in SnB's conversation with clarity.
So events happened like this.
I was talking to clarity, and he told me SnB's rolename out of NOWHERE. Ok. So I asked him for his rolename. And he declined giving reasons like, 'scum can bluesnipe rolenames'. Which sounds like crap to me. But whatever.
Eventually, I decided to fakeclaim 1 shot rolename alignment check because he wouldnt tell me his rolename. After I said that, he gave it up willingly. I then came back and pm'ed him that the result was that its a fake role name. Fakeclaim. Which means he is scum. He then said something along the lines of 'ok dude' And nothing else. So that makes me think he is town cause he doesnt have an overt reaction. I dunno. Thoughts guys? Wait what? YOU are Ser Redacted? And when asked if something interested happened in the confines of your house (Winterfell, apparently), you decided to keep this rather controversial situation to the thread, saying that everything was groovy? Explain yourself. Also, whatever gambit that was, it is atrocious. It doesn't sound indicative of Clarity's allegiance at all. It sounds like he gave you his real name and you derped it up, by claiming some nonsense name magic. I don't understand at all how you deduce that he is not a Blackfyre infiltrant from that, unless you were already privy to that information and were just dicking around. While I often find it hard to uncover your motivations for doing things, this seems like a particularly stupid gaff. At first my grievances were with your lord, but it's possible that your entire house is Blackfyre scum? Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 04:07 Acrofales wrote:On August 09 2013 03:59 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 03:54 Acrofales wrote:On August 09 2013 02:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok so im REDACTED in SnB's conversation with clarity.
So events happened like this.
I was talking to clarity, and he told me SnB's rolename out of NOWHERE. Ok. So I asked him for his rolename. And he declined giving reasons like, 'scum can bluesnipe rolenames'. Which sounds like crap to me. But whatever.
Eventually, I decided to fakeclaim 1 shot rolename alignment check because he wouldnt tell me his rolename. After I said that, he gave it up willingly. I then came back and pm'ed him that the result was that its a fake role name. Fakeclaim. Which means he is scum. He then said something along the lines of 'ok dude' And nothing else. So that makes me think he is town cause he doesnt have an overt reaction. I dunno. Thoughts guys? Wait what? YOU are Ser Redacted? And when asked if something interested happened in the confines of your house (Winterfell, apparently), you decided to keep this rather controversial situation to the thread, saying that everything was groovy? Explain yourself. Also, whatever gambit that was, it is atrocious. It doesn't sound indicative of Clarity's allegiance at all. It sounds like he gave you his real name and you derped it up, by claiming some nonsense name magic. I don't understand at all how you deduce that he is not a Blackfyre infiltrant from that, unless you were already privy to that information and were just dicking around. While I often find it hard to uncover your motivations for doing things, this seems like a particularly stupid gaff. At first my grievances were with your lord, but it's possible that your entire house is Blackfyre scum? Yes because obviously with that exchange between me and oats, the possibility that we're both scum somehow still remains? But yeah, whether I am town or scum I'd have reacted the same way, most likely. That said, do you think Oats as scum pushes me really hard for my rolename (he underemphasized this, it was like 5 pms each of him asking me rolename and me asking "why?") and then when I refuse to give it he makes up a role like that? Seems a bit farfetched for scum just to "dick around" Where do I say you're both Blackfyre pretenders? The exchange between you and Oats seems like intentional bad play by Oats, and his subsequent behaviour in this public hall has been to intentionally obscure information that would have been far more relevant at the time than his derpfest bickering with Yamato. Why would a loyal citizen intentionally derail the discussion, rather than presenting an interesting topic for discussion? I exaggerated with the "whole house" bit, but I have some serious suspicions of Oatsmaster and Strongandbig. His message here is pretty clear. Serious suspicion of Oats. He later qualifies this by saying that no in fact Oats is not scum, he just wanted to see more. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 22:03 Acrofales wrote:On August 09 2013 14:50 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 09 2013 14:44 FirmTofu wrote:On August 09 2013 14:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro's first post felt way more constructed. Like not even close to being natural cause he was Roleplaying. So I dont think its alignment indicative. So you think the fact that it was more constructed makes it non-alignment indicative? Wouldn't scum be more worried about the content of their posts than town? Why would constructed flavor not be alignment indicative? Because both scum and town have to construct a roleplaying post. Its not natural either way so therefore the fact that its constructed is not alignment indicative. The content on the other hand, may be. I dunno. In case my earlier discourse was unclear, Ser Oatsmaster has clearly traveled in the Reach and caught onto my way of speaking immediately. Regarding the content: the young Tofu seems to think that I was afraid of calling Ser Oatsmaster a Blackfyre. Rest assured that if I had thought that, I would have called him a Blackfyre then and there. At the time, all I wanted was to hear more from him, and I said so. Here is the more that Oats gave him in between those two thread presences: + Show Spoiler +On August 09 2013 14:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro's first post felt way more constructed. Like not even close to being natural cause he was Roleplaying. So I dont think its alignment indicative. On August 09 2013 14:50 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 14:44 FirmTofu wrote:On August 09 2013 14:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro's first post felt way more constructed. Like not even close to being natural cause he was Roleplaying. So I dont think its alignment indicative. So you think the fact that it was more constructed makes it non-alignment indicative? Wouldn't scum be more worried about the content of their posts than town? Why would constructed flavor not be alignment indicative? Because both scum and town have to construct a roleplaying post. Its not natural either way so therefore the fact that its constructed is not alignment indicative. The content on the other hand, may be. I dunno. Ok so I was looking through johnnywup's filter and I saw this Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:57 johnnywup wrote:
i don't have any extra information and its the first thing that came to mind for a 3p wincon in a themed setup like this. robert barath trying to kill targs is like pretty big in lore so it came to mind pretty quickly. I posted the exact same thought in a PM to my housemates and none seemed to think it was scummy. And its really weird that his defence is 'none of my housemates think it was scummy'. Shows an attitude of caring about his appearance. Not that he was wrong about the 3p or whatever but that his suggestion did not look scummy to other people. Weird mindset. Thoughts? On August 09 2013 15:15 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 14:58 johnnywup wrote:
he said it was scummy that I had that thought and I said that others saw it and some thought the exact opposite. Maybe that doesn't even really matter but I thought it was worth pointing out. Why is it worth pointing out? Why didnt you explain why its not scummy to think that there is a 3p On August 09 2013 15:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 15:19 johnnywup wrote:
I dunno, I just thought it was. Does that bother you?
It's scummy to think there's a 3p? It bothers me that your defence is 'these guys think its not scummy' On August 09 2013 15:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 15:44 johnnywup wrote:
it's hardly a defense i'm sure you'll agree. i didn't really intend for it to be a defense. I was just pointing out a contrast. Do you think I'm scum? yes On August 09 2013 16:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
So which lurker do you want to die Xata? On August 09 2013 16:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I feel that kush will show his alignment either way.
So you are basically suggesting a policy nk on lurkers right?
Cause you dont have specific targets. I dont know if I agree. After this he returns, but nothing on Oats. We would be lead to believe that this is because Oats has satisfied whatever was bothering Acro about him. What in those quotes would set his suspicions to rest? Oats activity has actually dropped as the game has gone on, which would presumably ring some bells for Acro. More, in those quotes, Oats attacked johnnywup primarily. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 06:15 Acrofales wrote:
--snip
In my humble opinion, johnnywup is the most obvious lynchbait in the thread Thats from his case on Rayn. One of his points is that Rayn attacked johnnywup. Again, we are at the mercy of PMs here, so I dunno what Acro was doing in regards to Oats in PM land. I'd like to know though Acro when you get the chance.
You quote (early) D1 stuff. On D1 I was clearly not in contact with Ser Oats, because Lord Strongandbig was lord of Winterfell. In D2 I have exchanged 1 PM with Ser Oats, in which I called him scum and he told me to fuck off. It was not very productive.
The bit in the case against Rayn is also not for him just attacking lynch bait. It's that he calls lynchbait scum and then just forgets about it.
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On August 13 2013 12:36 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 10:17 Chromatically wrote:
I don't see what the deal is with the Acro/Rayn HP plan thing.
Acro hints at a plan that uses the HP check D1 to rayn
rayn doesn't want to use the HP check D1 and says so in-thread
rayn says that he won't support the plan unless he knows what it is
So how does rayn come out scummy from this?
Acro can you explain this?
I have, about a million times. I see no reason to keep posting about this. Tell me what exactly you don't understand about it. Rayn clearly wasn't talking about changing his opinion about the plan. He was talking about changing his opinion about me.
I never needed, nor wanted, Rayn's support for the plan, so couldn't give half a fuck whether he would reconsider the plan, and that was definitely not what the conversation was about. He said he would reconsider his stance on me in exchange for information about the plan.
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On August 13 2013 12:59 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 12:50 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 12:36 Chromatically wrote:On August 13 2013 10:17 Chromatically wrote:
I don't see what the deal is with the Acro/Rayn HP plan thing.
Acro hints at a plan that uses the HP check D1 to rayn
rayn doesn't want to use the HP check D1 and says so in-thread
rayn says that he won't support the plan unless he knows what it is
So how does rayn come out scummy from this?
Acro can you explain this? I have, about a million times. I see no reason to keep posting about this. Tell me what exactly you don't understand about it. Rayn clearly wasn't talking about changing his opinion about the plan. He was talking about changing his opinion about me. I never needed, nor wanted, Rayn's support for the plan, so couldn't give half a fuck whether he would reconsider the plan, and that was definitely not what the conversation was about. He said he would reconsider his stance on me in exchange for information about the plan. My understanding is that rayn disagreed with your idea to use the HP check N1, and called it "anti-town". This is the sentiment that he said he would reconsider if he got more information. Correct?
I interpreted it as "if you tell me the info, I will drop my suspicions of you".
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On August 14 2013 20:16 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:10 Koshi wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Xatalos wrote:On August 14 2013 19:40 Koshi wrote:On August 14 2013 19:32 Xatalos wrote:
Koshi, could you explain why there is a mole in House Lannister because 3 townies died? No, I wonder why the lords didn't shoot anybody. My entire case against iamp was based on the fact that there was a scum in the Lannister House and he didn't see it because there was a "vigilante". So after todays flip: Didn't the lords and this "vigilante" pick a target? If the lords picked a target, then there is a mole in the Lannisters and no vigilante. You have to consider the fact that Ace was the primary target and iamperfection said there was some confusion about the secondary target, so it's not for certain that all KP went to Kush. Kush might also have more KP than gumshoe for all we know. I basically just disagree about your conclusion. 1) HOW could I consider that Ace was the primary target? 2) HOW could the Lords consider Ace was the primary target? (like as if Ace would play so bad as scum that he would get killed after 1 day? Seriously?) So wait? Lords thought that Kirby was actually not even a target? WHAT? 1. Ace 2. Kush 3. CONFUSION EVERYWHERE Above was the killlist for the Lords? More like 1. Ace 2. Kush & confusion everywhere According to iamperfection.
This sounds about right. We were agreed on shooting Ace and the last message coordinating our lord's swords said to shoot him (and only him). Then he got modkilled and I felt the shot probably wouldn't be coordinated, because before then, nobody had been able to agree. Vivax, Strongandbig, jrkirby, johnnywup and kush had all been proposed. Strongandbig started playing again just afterwards and Vivax seems better to lynch: it is easy to discuss him. Jrkirby got replaced just before the deadline, and in addition to replacing, as I told Sharrant at the end of the night: we just killed a scummer in House Martell. Statistics and stuff. I spent yesterday going through kush and johnnywup's filters, because they've been accusing each other of being scum in PM. From that I concluded that I still think johnnywup is town, but kush is a scummy fuck. I sent the Tyrell crossbows to stab him in the face.
The reads I sent Sharrant in case I died:
The scumteam is:
Raynpelikoneet (see yesterday's case. hasn't changed)
Vivax (his only redeeming quality has been to suspect Yamato in private. It just seems like distancing to me. Nothing came of it, ever)
Oatsmaster (basically, too scum to be dumb)
kushm4sta (I read the first few pages of the smurf filter. Kush gives reasons, he responds to questions and interacts with people. Here he doesn't)
That leaves no scum in Lannister or Baratheon. If there's scum in Baratheon it's DI or Koshi. I think DI over Koshi. He's known for losing interest in the game over time if he's scum, and his interest has dropped dramatically, but I have no strong town read on Koshi either. Scum in Lannister is probably Xatalos. Iamperfection is almost certainly town, and Grackaroni is too naive and open with his thoughts to be scum, imho.
Obviously wrong about Oats. Lets kill Rayn, though. He is still nitpicking useless shit.
I don't know why people are surprised kush is still alive, though. The Lordly swords were (probably) not enough to kill gumshoe yesterday and we had help. If that help is scum shooting him in the face, they would obviously not shoot their fellow conspirator in the face.
Here's what I said about kush:
1. Yamato policy lynch. I have asked him for his reasons, but with Yamato being scum, this could easily be a cheap way to distance himself from a scumbuddy. There's no pressure, no follow-up, just a few blurbs at the start of the game directed at Yamato. It feels phoney and an easy way to enter the thread without setting off any alarms, just kush being his usual useless self. 2. Flipflopping on Sharrant. He called Sharrant scum for a number of reasons, I told him he was wrong and he just instantly flipflopped. His reasons in a subsequent PM were that I had convinced him and he doesn't know Sharrant's meta, but his reasons had nothing to do with meta. It seems like he tried to hitch a ride on Risen's case, and when I shot him down, he just dropped it. 3. Flipflopping on Xatalos. Kush's list of scummers: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19498364He gets asked why Xatalos is on there, and the response: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19498664This is literally one hour later. I hadn't talked to him about Xatalos. Iamperfection, however, had stated that Xatalos is town just after kush's initial little list. He really just seems to be following thread sentiment and blending in. His reads are utterly useless and even if he flaunts his uselessness, it doesn't change the fact that he could just be a Blackfyre being useless and taking advantage of his meta as a completely useless player: rather than hide it, flaunt it.
Sharrant said that he had a similar feel to smurf mafia, so I looked at his filter. Before even starting, the activity difference is obvious. 12 pages of filter in 72 pages of game. This game, he has 2 pages of filter. Then looking through the start, while he does flaunt his uselessness there, he is actually not nearly as useless. He gives reasons for thinking people are scum, and interacts with people on a regular basis. Not so this game.
I don't think we should lynch him. I think we should just shoot him tonight. Seems a waste of town KP to shoot and then lynch. Better to lynch Rayn or Vivax.
Tyrell internal politics: Sharrant is about as close to confirmed town we have. Seemed the obvious choice for lord. He also promised to be more active than before, at least in the second half of today.
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EPT
