EPTGoT Mafia: Lords and Liars - Page 139
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
2. Vivax misstating the case against him. When I get to my computer I'll explain or maybe copy some pms I sent to clarity and oats. 3. Risen! Kill with fire. Just cause he had one food point on sharrant doesn't make him town, read my first case on him for the reasons why his filter makes him scum. @onegu fuck you how have I disappeared. It's been night phase when we were not allowed to post. Derplord. @vivax read the thread koshis argument is that when mocsta calls koshi scum for attacking jrkirby's filter, it's a scummy chainsaw defense because mocsta should be able to see how onjectively scummy jrkirby's filter looks regardless of what mocsta/jrkirby's actual alignment is. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On August 14 2013 20:16 Xatalos wrote: More like 1. Ace 2. Kush & confusion everywhere According to iamperfection. This sounds about right. We were agreed on shooting Ace and the last message coordinating our lord's swords said to shoot him (and only him). Then he got modkilled and I felt the shot probably wouldn't be coordinated, because before then, nobody had been able to agree. Vivax, Strongandbig, jrkirby, johnnywup and kush had all been proposed. Strongandbig started playing again just afterwards and Vivax seems better to lynch: it is easy to discuss him. Jrkirby got replaced just before the deadline, and in addition to replacing, as I told Sharrant at the end of the night: we just killed a scummer in House Martell. Statistics and stuff. I spent yesterday going through kush and johnnywup's filters, because they've been accusing each other of being scum in PM. From that I concluded that I still think johnnywup is town, but kush is a scummy fuck. I sent the Tyrell crossbows to stab him in the face. The reads I sent Sharrant in case I died: The scumteam is: Raynpelikoneet (see yesterday's case. hasn't changed) Vivax (his only redeeming quality has been to suspect Yamato in private. It just seems like distancing to me. Nothing came of it, ever) Oatsmaster (basically, too scum to be dumb) kushm4sta (I read the first few pages of the smurf filter. Kush gives reasons, he responds to questions and interacts with people. Here he doesn't) That leaves no scum in Lannister or Baratheon. If there's scum in Baratheon it's DI or Koshi. I think DI over Koshi. He's known for losing interest in the game over time if he's scum, and his interest has dropped dramatically, but I have no strong town read on Koshi either. Scum in Lannister is probably Xatalos. Iamperfection is almost certainly town, and Grackaroni is too naive and open with his thoughts to be scum, imho. Obviously wrong about Oats. Lets kill Rayn, though. He is still nitpicking useless shit. I don't know why people are surprised kush is still alive, though. The Lordly swords were (probably) not enough to kill gumshoe yesterday and we had help. If that help is scum shooting him in the face, they would obviously not shoot their fellow conspirator in the face. Here's what I said about kush: 1. Yamato policy lynch. I have asked him for his reasons, but with Yamato being scum, this could easily be a cheap way to distance himself from a scumbuddy. There's no pressure, no follow-up, just a few blurbs at the start of the game directed at Yamato. It feels phoney and an easy way to enter the thread without setting off any alarms, just kush being his usual useless self. 2. Flipflopping on Sharrant. He called Sharrant scum for a number of reasons, I told him he was wrong and he just instantly flipflopped. His reasons in a subsequent PM were that I had convinced him and he doesn't know Sharrant's meta, but his reasons had nothing to do with meta. It seems like he tried to hitch a ride on Risen's case, and when I shot him down, he just dropped it. 3. Flipflopping on Xatalos. Kush's list of scummers: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19498364 He gets asked why Xatalos is on there, and the response: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19498664 This is literally one hour later. I hadn't talked to him about Xatalos. Iamperfection, however, had stated that Xatalos is town just after kush's initial little list. He really just seems to be following thread sentiment and blending in. His reads are utterly useless and even if he flaunts his uselessness, it doesn't change the fact that he could just be a Blackfyre being useless and taking advantage of his meta as a completely useless player: rather than hide it, flaunt it. Sharrant said that he had a similar feel to smurf mafia, so I looked at his filter. Before even starting, the activity difference is obvious. 12 pages of filter in 72 pages of game. This game, he has 2 pages of filter. Then looking through the start, while he does flaunt his uselessness there, he is actually not nearly as useless. He gives reasons for thinking people are scum, and interacts with people on a regular basis. Not so this game. I don't think we should lynch him. I think we should just shoot him tonight. Seems a waste of town KP to shoot and then lynch. Better to lynch Rayn or Vivax. Tyrell internal politics: Sharrant is about as close to confirmed town we have. Seemed the obvious choice for lord. He also promised to be more active than before, at least in the second half of today. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
at least 1 of those people (oats) were not going to be lords today cause we elected clarity. It seems likely scum was finishing off the people they split KP onto night 1. Makes me think they did not know the hp check before choosing their KP. Killing lords a possible scum tactic to produce confusion among town, disrupt "town circle" of lord pms. Possible that kill on gumshoe really did come from town vig instead of mole giving scum the hp checks. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On August 14 2013 20:44 Clarity_nl wrote: A very strong townread on johnny? How? Did your hp check get used despite getting roleblocked? Can't speak for Sharrant, but here is my town read on johnny: I presume you got the same message I got when the game started, in which he revealed his rolename. At the time I was pretty suspicious, because it seemed like he was fishing. But I talked a bit with him and he seemed oblivious to the possibility of assassins. That was neither here nor there. His subsequent behaviour in public is to be extremely paranoid about name, and house information, and he PM'd me about it too. While this is easy to fake as scum, it seemed a natural reaction to our PM conversation. He then caught a LOT of flak for that in the thread, which to me just seemed like a retarded reason to call him scum, and people trying to push that in favour of actual scummy behaviour seemed suspicious, which further pushed him towards town. I seemed to be the only one who even considered the possibility he was town, and that is not how scum operates. The problem I have with his filter, and his private messages is that it spends a LOT of time defending himself and very little giving out reads. It's not a good thing and I've been pressuring him to share more reads and reasons in the thread. He told me that he is unmotivated, because every post he makes gets turned against him. It reminds me a bit of goodkarma in Catch 22. I don't like the self-pitying martyring behaviour, but it sounds genuine, and not like some scum trying to bullshit me. Upon rereading his filter, there is also something I'd consider a "townslip". After Ace posted in confusion and before he was modkilled, I received a PM from johnny saying that he no longer thought Ace was scum (he had told me before that he was certain Ace was scum): because the lordly KP was aimed at Ace, and I had told him that, this doesn't seem like something scum would do. They would want Ace dead before people could discuss it and come to that very same conclusion. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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Vivax
21978 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:13 Sharrant wrote: How certain are you that I'm scum, vivax? I think that your preference for popular lynch targets and certain defenses from people I'm not enthusiastic about, coupled with you using ~10 times the amount of text to give townreads to people compared to the amount for your scumreads points to you being scum. You prefer spending more time effort talking about things that aren't analysis of players in an effort to discern their alignment. Yamato's push being the sole exception. Do you think johnnywup's and s0lstice's reasons for thinking you're town seem credible? At the very least it should make you suspicious that people read you as town that easily in a game where you play rather differently to how I've seen you play in past town games, where you rather tried to cover as many players and topics as possible in your posts. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
Johnny I thought was scummy because of his first post. Didn't make it any further in his filter lol. Yes I have flip flopped. This is a huge town tell from me. I can't believe you shot me bro. My Shitty scumreads Johnny Acro | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On August 14 2013 22:59 Vivax wrote: If Mocsta is town he will obviously believe that his predecessor was town. Is he scum cause he thinks that his predecessor isn't scum? The fuck? Is he town because he thinks his predecessor is town? The fuck? So Mocsta spends a shitton of time reading this entire thread to analyse all the players. 1)He doesn't comment on jrkirby at all. 2)The latest post of Mocsta even suggest that he didn't even have read his predecessor his filter. He just read it for the first time and "doesn"t understand what the commotion is all about". Question back to you! If you replace into a game and you have read 130 pages, read all filters and spent a lot of time making a giant list with your current reads in the game. How big is the chance that you have read your predecessor his filter/posts as well? Mocsta reacted like shit on my accusations towards jkirby and is now lying to protect his ass. Seriously. It's obvious. | ||
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Vivax
21978 Posts
On August 13 2013 09:20 kushm4sta wrote: kush scumreads 1.0 (probably all wrong) yamato xatalos sharrant On August 14 2013 23:27 kushm4sta wrote: Acro I gave you reasons in pm. For thinking sharrant might be scum. I changed my mind because his claim didn't seem scummy you said. Johnny I thought was scummy because of his first post. Didn't make it any further in his filter lol. Yes I have flip flopped. This is a huge town tell from me. I can't believe you shot me bro. My Shitty scumreads Johnny Acro Kush can you explain what happened in between these? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:24 strongandbig wrote: Scum killed three people who were going to be lords Day 2. Oatsmaster very odd choice otherwise IMO, he didnt breadcrumb afaik and I don't think he was readable as blue. Also 3/3 too much to be coincidence. at least 1 of those people (oats) were not going to be lords today cause we elected clarity. It seems likely scum was finishing off the people they split KP onto night 1. Makes me think they did not know the hp check before choosing their KP. Killing lords a possible scum tactic to produce confusion among town, disrupt "town circle" of lord pms. Possible that kill on gumshoe really did come from town vig instead of mole giving scum the hp checks. Oh wow. This is completely true. Otherwise iamp would be dead day 1. Good news, I didn't like Grack as scum tbh but evidence was against him. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
First of all Jrkirby was really scummy. That is something we all know. To be fair that is also something Mocsta can't do anything about it whatever his alignment is so i am not going to go there more than this. Stance on Sharrant: When Mocsta replaces in what is the first thing he does. He calls Sharrant not a good vigi shot based on that he is a lynchbait in every game. This is entirely incorrect. Sharrant was one of the best & strongest town players in LXI andcaught 2 scum in N1. What is Mocsta's read on Sharrant D2: Lynched yamato. Of course I would have liked more activity from him but you get that. I also liked his post on Kushmaster. I disagree with people saying it was poorly timed. Kush was being attacked at the time. Prob worth re-reading who was slamming into him for that. One thing I don’t like about Sharrant, is that I am used to seeing *massive* walls of text from him that are hard to read. Perhaps time is a contributor to this not occurring. Because of that will relegate from firm town to leaning town. This is one of the reads that's incredibly shady. - Mocsta never explains what he liked in Sharrant's post on kushmasta. Sharrant never even explains why his read on kush is as it is, "it is because PM's and i can't really quote them". - Sharrant plays off from his town meta (no massive walls of text that are hard to read - which is btw incorrect), that makes him town? Seems legit! - No mention of lynchbait anymore? Everyone read the Sharrant reads and does this seem like Mocsta really thinks Sharrant is a lynchbait like he said on D2? His stance on me: Has been bugging me all game. Yet several have a strong town read on him. Some due to PMs which I don’t have access to. Im conflicted. Early game is terrible I think; Mid Day2, is relatively pro-town which balances out. Im not experienced with Rayn, but in Sicilian I felt he was town instantly, and not just because of the pardoner claim. Im not getting that vibe at all; early game he was displayed a lot of “forced aggression” and nitpicking. I think he is scum; but would pick him off last and he is the one I am the least confident about. - Who has said they have a townread on me by PM's? Noone afaik. - Why is my early game terrible and mid Day 2 strong? That's another statement never to be explained. - What was the "forced aggression" he is talking about? He never explains it. - I always nitpick, so do other players, how does that make me mafia? In fact, my whole D1 in Sicilian mafia (where he found me town) was nitpicking over Sloosh's shitty comment about PM's. Why did he find me town there? Contradiction. What does Mocsta do after that when i start questioning him? He calls me bad. Of course, what else would you do. He calls everyone bad for lynching FirmTofu who was "clearly just having RL-business" and that some other guy should have definitely been lynched on D1. That's a really easy thing to do, especially when he was not playing in this game at that time. Discredit people for being wrong. When i ask him who should we have lynched and why FT was clearly having RL-business he does not answer me. If you say this kinda stuff you should fucking tell then what would have been the right course of action (as you clearly implied there was better) and why. The fact is Mocsta can't do it, because he is just saying stuff for sake of discrediting people for a mislynch. Other than that he is aggressively attacking me when i call him out for stuff. And he is not attacking me in a way that i am scum. He is attacking me in a way that discredits me because he does not know where i am heading at. Well here is where i am heading at. Mocsta is mafia. Here are btw his other reads. Let's walk through them and see what he says (i left out the one's i am okay with, and the one's that are dead or null for "i don't have a read yet"): Dandle ion Originally read as firm town. Once Ace joined the game, his tone/attitude changed a lot from cocky to submissive. Hard to say whether the lurking was based on IRL issues //Ace//scum. Will stick with a leaning town read. Some unexplained connection to Ace that might change this read. what does that even mean? Sharrant: Already explained. Xatalos Started off well. Seems to be a good mediator. Also handled the RB fake claim quite well. Towards end of D2, started to go off the rails a touch, but this has been commented in the thread. Firm Town. What is the roleblock FAKEclaim he is talking about? And how did Xatalos handle that well? Towards D2 end seems worse, no explanation given other than "this has been commented in the thread". wtf does this read say? nothing. Vivax I liked his first post on Koshi a lot. As at the time I had a scum read on Koshi. Im stuck on Vivax. Since then, I don’t particularly like his posts HOWEVER, I do know for fact he has been very busy outside the game. Its more, Im not sure why he is posting. He seems to be trying to understand the target more; but is not there to follow up. So it becomes pointless, as he does not call them scum either. Again, I want to see more from Vivax regarding iamperfection Day3. Null "Did some townie things then did some scummy things". And now he is defending him. But Chromatically should defend himself instead of me defending him? Chromatically Someone else said it perfectly. “I know Chromatically is posting, but I cant remember what he is saying”.. agree in full. Massive blender.. latest contributions are purely targeting lurkers.. LOL.. this guy is scum for sure. Whole read is based on what someone else said. Mocsta has just read the game and does not remember what Chrom has said. Townie thing: "go read his filter again". What's the conclusion, he brings up that "Chrom has lately targeted lurkers". Weak. Grackaroni, johnnywup, Kushmasta I am not even going to say anything because the read includes a word lynchbait. Being a lynchbait as town does not make you town in this game. Easy way to call scummy people town if you are mafia. Koshi Had a scum read on him early game. Especially as he maintained his tunnel on oats, which just read as forced points. Long absence; followed by a resurgence in posting late Day2. I actualy don’t mind his recent posting. Willing to give him a chance. Again, I want his opinion on people like chromatically/iamperfection. Null to leaning scum. "Did some scummy stuff, then did some townie stuff". Nothing is explained. Strongandbig I don’t get the early plan role thing. But whatevers. Hard guy to read cos of low give a crap factor. I think hes town personally. Cant really pinpoint why though. Overall; I just don’t feel hes been pushing anything… hence town. "Town, but i don't really know why". Okay! Acrofales Flavour is a bitch to read him him; but hes been consistent and breaks out of it when required. This speaks heavily of town. Another town point is, I feel early game he was severely wrong but still had a presence. This reminds me a bit of ??Not Another Dual Mafia?? I have also played with scum Acro, and know he doesn’t have a problem posting in the thread for filler; and trying to drive home points. Its also hard to get a read on Acro because he is so established in the PM land; that we don’t get full context of his position. Personally I would say one of Rayn/Acro is scum. I would lean with Rayn. So will give Acro: Null to leaning town. Another read that says nothing at all, except "hard to read". The last line of this is just lol. Risen Like Iamperfection this guy pounces on opportunities to belittle ppl by calling out bad play. Risen also delurks to do this in such an uncouth manner. Hes in effect promoting such an antitown atmosphere. His reads are completely shite; but I wont call him scum for that. Its mainly the atmosphere he is providing *AND* the timing of his contributions. Another thing to note is that Risen is an TL Mafia Award holder for best scum play. So I would imagine that faking aggression is not difficiult for him if this is his normal style of play. How does Risen promote anti-town atmosphere? Is sharing your reads anti-town? Who is to say Risen is wrong in his reads. All Mocsta says here is "Risen is wrong". Why is the timing of Risen's contributions anti-town? Another not explained thing. The last sentence is weird and i do not know what Mocsta is trying to say with it. That Risen is a chaotic player regardless of alignment? Well how does this make him scum here? TLDR; [x] Jrkirby [x] Contradicts himself in his stance on players (mainly Sharrant) [x] Discredits people who attack him instead of having a reasonable argument (now with Koshi too) [x] Has reads that at first glance seem legit but 90% of them actually do not say anything or are not explained [x] Discredits people for a mislynch. Is not willing to explain why it was bad and has no conclusions about it (why was it bad, who does it incriminate, why, etc). [x] Mafia | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
So what? Did you just not want to risk your neck by sticking it out and fighting to be lord. Surely Risen's utterly insane behaviour yesterday showed that he is not fit to be lord (although I don't agree with Ser Strongandbig's assessment). Aiming his longships at Sharrant is a sign of insanity, not Blackfyre sympathy, and insane people are less likely to be part of a rebellion, imho. So if you are in fact a loyalist, you'd draw the conclusion that Risen is insane, and he should be deposed as lord. That leaves you as the only alternative. Is Risen so powerhungry? Why did you admit defeat so easily? It seems like a Blackfyre slinking back into the shadows to me. Lets kill Rayn, the Blackfyre pretender kraken! | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 14 2013 22:28 Vivax wrote: Xatalos, the most recent reasoning for lynching Risen I found is this: Give me an updated bullet list of your points against him please, there's much more to go with than just the quantity of his posts in the beginning. While you're at it, give me a reason for me being scum that hasn't to do with activity, cause that's probably the reason 99 % in here have for thinking I'm scum. You're just skating by and targeting popular lynch targets, the latest case you wrote was on jkirby, and that was upon Acrofales' request. You're clearly not reading very closely. That was just my second post against Risen, with almost the same content as the first one. I had more after that, like his contradictory statements about his scumreads on me and DI (and also his push for Sharrant didn't feel right, nor his faulty logic with his original accusations and how he never followed up on them). iamperfection initially got me suspicious of you. Here's a summary of his opinions (from the last will post): "Vivax- so i reread what he posted after i told him i think he is scum. Fucker still has not had a single strong push the entire game. vivax should be leading the town or fighting me if im wrong about sompething he simply does not care what is going on and isnt trying to catch scum. He does this because he is scum" Basically, lack of genuine effort, pushing, involvement... Not just lack of activity. Lynchworthy for sure. After some PM'ing with Clarity I'm not as confident in Risen being scum anymore. He's generally crazy and it's hard to distinguish between crazy town and crazy scum. Maybe his faulty logic is explained by his general lack of logical thinking. For now it might be a better idea to lynch you, s0Lstice, snb or Mocsta (unless he keeps up his clear effort, which isn't very easy to do as scum). | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:17 strongandbig wrote: 1. Main thing sharrant still hasn't answered IMO is why he claimed to acro without worrying that he would get killed. He said he lied about his target in case acro was scum, so it can't be because he had such a strong town read on acro that he was willing to risk his whole blue role on it. 2. Vivax misstating the case against him. When I get to my computer I'll explain or maybe copy some pms I sent to clarity and oats. 3. Risen! Kill with fire. Just cause he had one food point on sharrant doesn't make him town, read my first case on him for the reasons why his filter makes him scum. @onegu fuck you how have I disappeared. It's been night phase when we were not allowed to post. Derplord. @vivax read the thread koshis argument is that when mocsta calls koshi scum for attacking jrkirby's filter, it's a scummy chainsaw defense because mocsta should be able to see how onjectively scummy jrkirby's filter looks regardless of what mocsta/jrkirby's actual alignment is. Grow up you were gone 8 pages before night post, and 8 pages since day post, you havent been around much. Also your overreaction to clairity passing your role name along. And your random vote on me for no reason day one made me feel scum on you. And you got active after people started tomcall you scum, sure it maybe random chance, but with everything else you are scummy to me. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:30 Vivax wrote: Kush can you explain what happened in between these? FOR YOU VIVAX ANYTHING.. as long as you keep teh semen out yamato- flipped scum xatalos- oh yeah i just forgot about him sharrant- acro told me his claim seemed townie. rather than look into it myself i decided to just take his word for it johnny- i read the first post of your (vivax) filter which lead me to the first post of johhnny's filter and it seemed hella scummy acro- feel read. backed up by recent interactions by pm. first he's on my dick hard, wanting the kush sauce, then he is all mad at me for no reason and thinks im scum. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:30 Koshi wrote: Oh wow. This is completely true. Otherwise iamp would be dead day 1. Good news, I didn't like Grack as scum tbh but evidence was against him. Meh. Scum splitting their KP to create chaos D2 doesn't seem unlikely. The main point of the life magic was that it revealed gumshoe hanging on by a thread. I don't see how today's evidence that the Blackfyres split their armies on day 1 proves that gumshoe was hit by a loyalist vigilante. In fact, the fact kush didn't die is to me evidence that he was in fact pushed off the cliff by Blackfyre swords. Whether this makes Grackaroni or Xatalos a pretender I am not sure about. Any of the lords could have used their life magic in secret to get the same information. Maybe the Blackfyres themselves have a power like the one Sharrant claimed to have. There is just too much missing information. But concluding that it was a loyalist vigilante seems very premature. | ||
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