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On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this? Show nested quote +
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller.
Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections.
The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right.
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You do have a point chrom about the HP check thing. that's a strange lil wrinkle
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On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax.
Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks.
On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes?
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what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier?
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On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game. Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote:
what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting. He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew.
yup pretty much. he's really hard to read because of how erratic he is.
So to make this public knowledge, Risen PMed me after Vivax made his claim thing saying he wanted to lynch Xatalos. This is shortly after posting in the thread something along the lines of Xatalos=bad. He then immediately sent a PM after saying 'oh oops nevermind we gotta lynch Vivax today.' Scum Risen knows Vivax is on his team, and hence would be pretty concerned with what side of this issue he ends up on. Why would he rock the boat like this as scum and muddy the waters after already being on the correct side of the Vivax wagon? How does this action improve his situation? It's crazy as town too, but the flakiness and carelessness of the action makes the town side a lot more likely.
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On August 18 2013 01:56 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:53 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game. On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote:
what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting. He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew. yup pretty much. he's really hard to read because of how erratic he is. So to make this public knowledge, Risen PMed me after Vivax made his claim thing saying he wanted to lynch Xatalos. This is shortly after posting in the thread something along the lines of Xatalos=bad. He then immediately sent a PM after saying 'oh oops nevermind we gotta lynch Vivax today.' Scum Risen knows Vivax is on his team, and hence would be pretty concerned with what side of this issue he ends up on. Why would he rock the boat like this as scum and muddy the waters after already being on the correct side of the Vivax wagon? How does this action improve his situation? It's crazy as town too, but the flakiness and carelessness of the action makes the town side a lot more likely. That's pretty wifom. He could not have checked his qt, vivax could not have discussed the claim in his qt etc.
yea actually, I remember him being in thread but he didn't say a word about the claim before he started the xatalos thing
The PMs came 5 minutes apart for what it's worth.
HMMM
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EBWOP: to make the previous a lil more clear..I thought he had been in thread and acknowledged the claim in some form. not true
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also a thought I just had...it would not be weird at all for scum to have some kind of HP check ability. in fact it makes a lot of sense
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On August 18 2013 02:08 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 02:04 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:56 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 18 2013 01:53 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game. On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote:
what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting. He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew. yup pretty much. he's really hard to read because of how erratic he is. So to make this public knowledge, Risen PMed me after Vivax made his claim thing saying he wanted to lynch Xatalos. This is shortly after posting in the thread something along the lines of Xatalos=bad. He then immediately sent a PM after saying 'oh oops nevermind we gotta lynch Vivax today.' Scum Risen knows Vivax is on his team, and hence would be pretty concerned with what side of this issue he ends up on. Why would he rock the boat like this as scum and muddy the waters after already being on the correct side of the Vivax wagon? How does this action improve his situation? It's crazy as town too, but the flakiness and carelessness of the action makes the town side a lot more likely. That's pretty wifom. He could not have checked his qt, vivax could not have discussed the claim in his qt etc. yea actually, I remember him being in thread but he didn't say a word about the claim before he started the xatalos thing The PMs came 5 minutes apart for what it's worth. HMMM You mean like he PM'd you, checked the ScumQT and PM'd again with the opposite stance?
Yes, him not publicly acknowledging the claim casts doubt on the idea that he was aware of it when he sent out the PMs on you, and therefore opens up the possibility of a scenario like you describe.
Did anybody get a PM from Risen where he acknowledges Vivax' claim prior to the Xatalos crusade?
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yea I'm back to wanting to lynch Sharrant. let's see what kind of award he deserves.
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On August 17 2013 14:07 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 14:06 s0Lstice wrote:On August 17 2013 14:05 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2013 14:01 Mocsta wrote:
Hhmmm why did xatalos relinquish? That is far from the most interesting question. WTF happened in Winterfell? SnB scum and some kinda coupe? what do you mean? We'll know soon enough. If Rayn, Mocsta and Grack instavote for someone, we're fucked.
On August 17 2013 14:15 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 14:10 s0Lstice wrote:
we aren't at mylo are we?
because that is not a concern otherwise. Closed setup, so good luck defining whether we're at lylo or not. House Stark not having a leader seems like a scumplay. The lack of deaths seems like IF it was a power grab it only half-succeeded at best. I'm gonna park my vote. Plurality lynch, so better be paranoid as hell. ##vote Strongandbig
Ok. These two quotes came before the ones I presented to you. So your thought process at the time of these quotes is that Sharrant is town and the check is valid and scum must be making a big play. Within that idea of a big play is that Mocsta, SnB, and Grack/Rayn are scum. How does this quote exist at the time that it happened then?
On August 17 2013 14:45 Acrofales wrote:
Also, I think I'm wrong on Rayn. Mocsta was incriminating him in PM and telling me to push his lynch while calling SnB town.
This game is too easy. Scum surrender pl0x?
You can't be thinking that scum is making a big play (which requires a scum Rayn) and also thinking that Sharrant is town-->has a valid check-->Mocsta is scum-->Rayn is innocent because of attacks by Mocsta. Like these two thoughts cannot exist at the same time.
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EBWOP previous @ Acro obviously
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On August 18 2013 02:59 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 02:52 s0Lstice wrote:On August 17 2013 14:07 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2013 14:06 s0Lstice wrote:On August 17 2013 14:05 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2013 14:01 Mocsta wrote:
Hhmmm why did xatalos relinquish? That is far from the most interesting question. WTF happened in Winterfell? SnB scum and some kinda coupe? what do you mean? We'll know soon enough. If Rayn, Mocsta and Grack instavote for someone, we're fucked. On August 17 2013 14:15 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2013 14:10 s0Lstice wrote:
we aren't at mylo are we?
because that is not a concern otherwise. Closed setup, so good luck defining whether we're at lylo or not. House Stark not having a leader seems like a scumplay. The lack of deaths seems like IF it was a power grab it only half-succeeded at best. I'm gonna park my vote. Plurality lynch, so better be paranoid as hell. ##vote Strongandbig Ok. These two quotes came before the ones I presented to you. So your thought process at the time of these quotes is that Sharrant is town and the check is valid and scum must be making a big play. Within that idea of a big play is that Mocsta, SnB, and Grack/Rayn are scum. How does this quote exist at the time that it happened then? On August 17 2013 14:45 Acrofales wrote:
Also, I think I'm wrong on Rayn. Mocsta was incriminating him in PM and telling me to push his lynch while calling SnB town.
This game is too easy. Scum surrender pl0x? You can't be thinking that scum is making a big play (which requires a scum Rayn) and also thinking that Sharrant is town-->has a valid check-->Mocsta is scum-->Rayn is innocent because of attacks by Mocsta. Like these two thoughts cannot exist at the same time. Well, for starters, I received the PM from Mocsta in which he pushed Rayn hard AFTER the first post. Secondly, the red check happened, and it's very different to have suspicions on Mocsta and have a credible red check on Mocsta.
ahh k this makes sense
just as an aside, not at all related to our alignments, do you think this game should be declared a draw?
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On August 18 2013 03:39 Xatalos wrote:
Lol so there was a framer who happened to frame Mocsta.....? Or DI is scum. But framer seems much more likely (although even that is unlikely).
How is Acro confirmed scum though DI?
maybe cop isn't sane or something too
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I'm as well having a hard time engaging myself with the game after mocstagate. Will try later this evening to look things over.
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if sharrant shot himself as scum I'm going to be amazed.
doesn't seem likely at all though, which really throws a wrench into where my head was at on this game.
I guess I could see the Mocsta frame? That seems unlikely as well.
Many roads so many dead ends. I guess that's how we end up at johnny. One thing I was thinking about/checking on is my memory of my short time in roulette, where he spent D1 (as scum) basically getting "scum reads" from people who attacked him. I spent some time earlier going through his past games looking for a second occurrence of this, but came up empty.
We are lynching into a total unknown here. Like Clarity said, his play is just sub-par from either alignment. Not much else we can do at this point. Our lords this cycle are at odds.
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To be clear though, I'd still rather johnny than Onegu.
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Rayn, why not back to johnny after getting off of Sharrant?
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yea chrom fooled the shit out of me. worst read I had this game. good job chrom.
going into today I was gonna be on rayn and acro. that last cycle was bad for us. not much I/we could do to keep the votes out of acro and rayn's hands. The game was basically over then...but truthfully it was over when Mocsta modkilled himself.
wtf dude.
really just took the wind out of my sails.
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EPT
