Basterd Mini Mafia

On June 30 2013 06:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey WoS, you got anything to say?

On June 30 2013 07:13 Lazermonkey wrote:
http://translate.google.com/

On June 30 2013 06:49 Lazermonkey wrote:
French gives me headache and reminds me of my french teacher in sixth grade...

##Vote: WaveofShadow

On June 30 2013 07:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:

See how Stutters deals with the miller thing. He is not taking any stance on what marv is. He is being really "all-around" with his answers and casting doubt on anything he can. Like you said, how the fuck would i know how many millers there are if i was mafia?

WoS said "I'm not going to be around until late tonight, so i got nothing to say". Why would you post you got nothing to say if you are town, why not say something useful with that post instead?

On June 30 2013 11:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a serious contradiction in WoS' behaviour. Whoever can see that gains many townie points.

On June 30 2013 07:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:

rofl what's this? An accusation? Now if i was mafia how would i know how many millers there are in the game?
Also could you answer the quesions about Lazer/WoS?

On June 30 2013 07:38 Vivax wrote:
Addendum to the stutters thing: Looks like a loaded question scum likes to ask earlygame. I don't really see how one would suspect Rayn to be scum for having "extra info" about miller when scum doesn't get any extra info in that regard either. Doesn't seem like the approach a townie would take in that case even if he genuinely believed that.

Ecco un voto per esprimere la mia discordanza e il mio sospetto


##Vote stutters

On June 30 2013 13:18 VayneAuthority wrote:


Ya I might not be so nice after my vacation is over and a 9 hour drive tho

Gumshoe town methinks no reason yet

On June 30 2013 13:00 s0Lstice wrote:
my inbox is evergreen

lots of scummy shit happening right now, so let's get to work.

this is the scummiest post in the thread so far:



Look at the thought process here. Rayn seems sure there are not 2 millers in the game-->Rayn knows how many millers are in the game-->Rayn is scum. For this jump to be made, Stutters would have to think scum know how many millers are in the game to get a scummy vibe from Rayn. This makes zero sense. Can't wait to hear your answer on this one my dear stutters.

Early town read on Rayn for diving on this. His reaction exactly matched mine. I don't agree at all with your town read on Lazer though, Rayn.

Look at how much time he has spent on Marv's miller claim. You know how to deal with a miller claim? You ignore it. All it means is don't DT check the person and that's it. Figure out their alignment just like you would anybody else. The fact that he goes on and on about it looks to me not like he is trying to get at Marv's alignment, but rather he is feeling comfortable talking about a very safe topic in preference to anything of consequence. When he made this quote:



...there was plenty to talk about. Doesn't sit right with me. More, his conclusion from the discussion should be the public assertion that Marv is not 100% confirmed town. He mentions this, but hesitates to draw a line between scummy or wrong for the people who are saying otherwise (Rayn). Smells fishy.

Vivax-

What are you doing here?



Passively flinging shit on a guy who is probably not here, and said activity would be light in the early going? Explain yourself. Explain this too while you're at it:



Who gives a shit? Why are you so self-conscious?

Anyway, little break now. More in just a bit.

On June 30 2013 06:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no way there are 2 millers in the game so cut talking about that as a possibility already.

On June 30 2013 13:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
I called rayn scum for buddying marv and instantly believing marvs miller claim without questioning whether scum would do it AT ALL. Like rayn is too sure that marv is town

On June 30 2013 13:57 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont think rayn is scum for thinking there is 1 miller. All or almost all games have only 1 miller.

WoS, I dont think you know what im talking about

On June 30 2013 14:02 VayneAuthority wrote:


Policy lynching is cowardly, not to mention I got them to vote for vivas instead so we didn't lose. I don't really see the basis of your anger.

On June 30 2013 14:06 Oatsmaster wrote:

it is if it gets the strongest town player on your side. Also marv never ever gets mislynched

On June 30 2013 14:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
Just scum hunt champ, try and look beyond what you think is scummy and we will all be better for it. Look at motivation instead of meta and you will find me much easier to read if that helps.

Btw I find gumshoe to be town due to him looking at people in terms of losses and weighing our options instead of just jumping on something. He looks to be like some one who is turning the cogs but is unsure of himself. There's my reasoning now

On June 30 2013 19:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
Don't make it sound like Marv had to think everything through in just 5 minutes because that's just not true. It's not like its impossible to plan that if you roll mafia in a game, you want to fake claim miller. What do I know, maybe he even requested mafia?

On June 30 2013 20:21 Lazermonkey wrote:
I do find Vayne's play scummy, that's why I asked. And no, I don't mean a policy type of lynch. I mean a you-are-likely-scum type of lynch. What is your take on his post about me that he ends up doing nothing with, and instead tries to defend himself from attacks that aren't really attacks?

Also, I don't understand why me trying to recognize him as a lynch bait makes me look suspcious in your eyes. If he is a lynch bait, everyone will know that sooner or later. Thing is, scum can just ignore the fact he is a lynch bait and just push him because he looks scummy. Applying your logic in the case of a Vayne lynch, I would bad because I questioned if he was a lynch bait whereas scum looks better because they didn't.

On June 30 2013 12:22 VayneAuthority wrote:
Something rubs me the wrong way about lazermonkeys posting

Starts off the thread not even wanting to scum hunt.

Throws down a troll vote early, see jaybrundage in roulette for how something innocent just pads your filter with bs.

Eager to jump on the stutters be before he has even defended himself

His 6th post is just insanely scummy read it and tell me otherwise

Rest of his filter is useless speculation

He gets my vote until I can talk with him more and get a better read

Can't vote right now as its much too precise to bold shit on an iPad but will contribute more when I'm home tomorrow night

On July 01 2013 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats, i made a same mistake you are doing here tunneling me. I looked Stutters' post only from scum perspective and i have now second thoughts about it because of what you said.

I think WoS is scum for what i have said. After that he has only posted some wishyt-washy things about me and Vayne. He says "Oats might be right" but then again "rayn gets a slight town read from what he did". He is avoiding to take sides in the argument. Look at his posts about Vayne; Big walls of text that basically says "i don't know what to make out of it". He does not want to vote for Stutters because "the wagon formed so quickly it bothers him" when there is no wagon but then he actually votes for Stutters??? Also the post is more like "i'll park my vote here" rather than "i think Stutters is mafia". Like: "Until the rest of the thread shows up or something scummier happens, (or maybe if Stutters explains himself a little/talks some more?)". wtf is this? After his vote he does never question Stutters or try to push the lynch, he is just chatting with Oats without making up his mind about anything in the game. He is not trying find mafia rather than just blending in.

I'll look into other people more tonight. I think marv, Vivax and Oats are town, Stutters' posting style and explanations feel genuine and i'm slightly leaning town on him.

I gotta relook into Lazer, i can't understand Vayne, he'd be a good cop target after copping marv. Nobody else i remember nothing about at this point.

On July 01 2013 04:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
WoS, why is your vote on stutters if you dont think hes scum? Do you have any reason to think hes scum?

On July 01 2013 04:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
so WoS defended you, and his actions revolving stutters basically.

So he keeps saying his vote on Stutters is basically a placeholder vote until 'something worse' happens.
Also, he doesnt seem really all interested in lynching stutters, he says that his vote is there until stutters is back. which is relatively easy for stutters to do. I have no idea why he voted then if he doesnt want to lynch stutters.

His overreaction to your pokes is also odd. He dismisses your points really fast and shits on you in the process.

I could see this being a bus though.

On July 01 2013 04:24 Lazermonkey wrote:
If this is true you've done it in an interesting way I'd say. The discussion you have generated this far has been about you being scum.

On July 01 2013 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats you need to explain this to me.
You say that you will be looking to WoS if i would flip town. So you think i am right about WoS. Why the fuck do you want to lynch me first if you think either 1) i am right or 2) i am bussing him.

You are making no sense now.

Also you need to explain how solstice is scummy and how JarJar looks good.

On July 01 2013 05:18 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'll sheep this guy I think. He seems resonable.

On July 01 2013 05:49 gumshoe wrote:


How are we unimaginative or pedestrian? Also heres a flip flop.

On July 01 2013 07:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Lazer, Vivax is probably scum and JarJar or WoS is his scumbuddy, JarJar more likely.
There are three people who should know how i work and how i develop my reads. WoS, Oats and Vivax. Oats becomes and idiot who tunnels someone for the whole phase, and by his other posts he looks very town. WoS, i don't really know what he thinks of me and why. Vivax is just... well saying nothing but asking me about stuff i have explained or debunked already.

On July 01 2013 07:25 Lazermonkey wrote:
WoS, I'm kinda neutral on atm. I don't feel like killing him.

Vivax has been giving me really bad vibes the last few pages. He really went overboard with the tunneling, though I don't think tunneling in it self is a scum tell. Also, Vivax is actually talking alot, compared to others in this game and I'm not too keen on killing one of the most active posters in the game D1.

We really should kill Jarjar...

On July 01 2013 21:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Reads and thoughts:

Lazermonkey:
Thread enterance points towards being town. Careless comment about policy lynching. I don't think he would do that as mafia. I also do not think he would hardcore defend me if he was scum, as apparently this Vivax' wagon is easy to join with just saying "i agree". It doesn't even make sense if JarJar is somehow town, because if you can choose between lynching town!rayn and town!JarJar i would not think twice, even if based purely on activity.

Stutters:
Gets town points from what Oats pointed out. Gets town points from trying to get the discussion moving also to other things than me. I like his vote on Fuba because i think Fuba is scum.

Vivax:
Vivax is only looking my post in the point of view "how does this make rayn scum". You are forgetting something, you are not even taking account the possibility that i would think like this as town. There are many examples where i have given town reads based on very little and based on that those people think like me and would act like me. I don't like the fact that he is failing to contribute to almost everything other than me, especially JarJar and WoS. I have explained everything you have in your case, if you don't believe that as a genuine explanation, fine, vote for me. But remember this; If i get lynched and you are actually town you are in deep shit because as a strong player you are going to die on N1 and you seem have no base to any other solid read that you think you have on me now. So if you are town better start doing some real scumhunting.

VayneAuthority:
Basically due to process of elimination.

gumshoe:
Definitely town. Has the best posts in thread atm.

Oatsmaster:
If Oats was scum he would also be in deep shit in case i flip, i don't think he would even think he could handle it as the tunnel is so absurd and stupid. Sad, but this has to be bad!town!Oats

marvellosity:
I'm having second thoughts about marv as he has not yet posted. Will have a better read on him when he gets back. And his posts better be good then!

mkfuba07:
Says "WoS will show if he is town when he starts playing". In his next post he comments on some random people (for what?), and does not comment on WoS/JarJar in any way (hey, you were supposed to be good in reading WoS??). Then drops his vote on me without adding anything to the case, only that "it would be much easier to fakeclaim miller here" which is certainly not true. scum. Why did you not comment on JarJar/WoS in any way in your big post? You must have a read on both of them, let us hear it.

WaveofShadow:
Useless. Even says he will be useless. Why not say something useful instead? Continues being useless, like having voted Stutters and what's the follow up? He does not try to find out his scumbuddies, he doesn't question him in any way. Actually, he does not question anyone in any way. If JarJar is somehow town WoS is sure scum by trying to avoid attention after called out. Who is scum WoS and why? What are your thoughts on Vivax/JarJar/Fuba?

s0Lstice:
Starts the game with good questions on things i thought was odd myself too. His posts are well thought out and i can follow his thought process.

JarJarDrinks:
Calls out Solstice for scumhunting. Good job, that's his top scumread at that time. Doesn't follow up this suspicion in any way, and is now voting for Gumshoe as an OMGUS. Hey JarJar, why did you noot look at my situation at the same light you are looking at this one "you think this is the only way to look at it?" as you said you think i am town. Why not tell Vivax and Oats that they are wrong? Why are they not suspicious but gumshoe is for doing the same thing? His answers to Vivax' questions look really really forced. Also what's your read on WoS/Fuba now and why?

Now i know i have too much scumreads. Everyone fits in as scum with everyone in those people (i count out marv atm), i don't want to lynch Vivax because he does not look the worst and there is a slight possibility that he is town. We also do not work well together at least on D1.

I keep my vote on JarJar, but i challenge all of you to question WoS/JarJar/fuba, i'm pretty confident there is at least 2 scum in them.

On July 01 2013 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Stop with the stupid connection cases before red flips. There is no base in Vivax Stutters read because it's based on me and him being scum which can't possibly be true.

On July 02 2013 07:33 Vivax wrote:


I mentioned specific reasons for lynching WoS, tbh I didn't find proper reasons on my own to lynch Vayne, except that he was more inactive than usual.
But in the end I decided to sheep marv cause I felt clueless and no one except JJ declared to join me in the WoS lynch, and marv would have lynched WoS as well, and that left me thinking that since marv is left with the same choices as me, he can probably be trusted.

I just hope I didn't make a mistake by buying fuba's explanation for his contradiction. But saying he wrote different parts of the post at different times is actually a feasible explanation.

We're still waiting for Oats and WoS though. I dídn't really like Lazer's claim timing and will probably lynch him first if one of them counterclaims him.

On July 02 2013 03:31 Stutters695 wrote:
I explained why I disagreed with your case. Truth be told I haven't scrutinized his play too much since then but I don't think his "slip" if you want to call it that is indicative of anything, at least not on its own.

I'll read up on WoS/Lazer but is there a particular thing you don't like about my Fuba case?

On July 02 2013 03:45 Stutters695 wrote:
I can understand that. Probably a little bias on my part but it just seems so scummy to me. I'll see how he responds and what he comes back with but he's definitely on my short list for d2.

On July 02 2013 15:06 Vivax wrote:
WoS wtf is this



You feel the need to defend yourself for something I found Vayne to be guilty of?

I'll have kinda limited time today, but WoS looks pretty bad to me. As Oats mentioned, his shit is unfocused and I don't really see a townie line of thinking forming from his reads, it's more like he comments on anything that could be construed as scummy, but without drawing conclusions while doing so. Plus, stuff like this



gives me the impression he takes a passive stance in the game. "Yeah talk to me if u want lolz else I won't be posting much". WoS is more proactive than this as town. Sure, he was busy and shit, but if this is his new activity, then he can be sure to have my breath in his neck next day. This looks like the kind of "Let me write a ton of shit and fuck off"-activity.

Finds a bunch of stuff scummy from one guy (Lazer), doesn't dig further into that guy but heads towards JJD while complaining about the miller discussion, then calls my post scummy.

In his final posts he mentions people he wants to look into, effectively leaving all his previous "analysis" inconcluded, then adds some more points against stutters. No sign of Lazer, who he said he would be voting for that post, or me, posting something that "screams" to WoS. Or JJD for that matter. All the scummy stuff he found but still no intention to show how the concerned people are scummy, only the intention to write a load of stuff.

Anyhow, will probably be back around deadline.

On July 02 2013 23:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im saying that him not caring about his vote is townie. But since he unvoted, i guess he couldnt be there for the lynch

On July 03 2013 00:08 gumshoe wrote:


They're is another role that would show hesitance about revealing just like scum would. That post was a wink wink nudge nudge to Jar Jar, but seeing as hes thick as a castle wall I'll say this much.



Doesn't matter seeing as were revealing, but I wont say which role specifically till after or just before tonight.

I'm not mad at Jar Jar for not seeing the post that way, just... disappointed.

On July 03 2013 00:11 marvellosity wrote:
He is now -.-

On July 03 2013 00:18 Stutters695 wrote:
Any red emphasis is mine

Well WoS's most recent post has me thinking he might be scum.

I'm literally WoS' only scum-read this game. He jumps on my wagon and sheeps Vivax and Rayn (with his only unique reasoning being that I didn't feel like translating his worthless posts in French because I was phone posting).

He twice emphasizes his doubt of my wagon by virtue of four people already being on it.

BUT WAIT

He literally hasn't taken a stance on anything to this point and waffled on me because the wagon was too easy when thats literally the exact same thing he said my most recent post was scummy for.

After that he does his summary thing which shows no real analysis just worthless summaries of what we already know.


Worth noting though is he attacks Lazer for saying Vivax is scummy but he still wanted to lynch JJD because Vivax is active and although his tunneling felt scummy it isn't a scumtell of itself. Maybe I'm misinterpreting him, but half his points against Lazer are for using ellipses? Seriously. Also note despite saying he'd lynch him at this point, he doesn't mention Lazer again in his filter.

He follows that up with indecisive posts on Vivax and Rayn.

Finally his players he wants to look into post:



Marv - "I dont know so I'm going to look at him" very helpful
Fuba - Says the same thing I and multiple others have said. Notice that, once again, there is no conclusion only observations.
Me- Hey a definitive stance! On me again .

Here's why I think this is scummy.

First, obviously how non-committal he is while also using that as his sole point against me.
Second: Blatant misrepresentation.

I still maintain my case on Fuba is pretty damn strong, he still is doing exactly what I laid out. That one is subjective though, whatever. "Never gives the aforementioned reads": This one bugs me. He completely ignores that I agreed with Vivax's case AND provided additional information that helped to secure his lynch pre-claim. Obviously it was wrong and forced a claim which sucks, but that is taking a stance.

Notice how he also tries to pin promised reads on me when I said "I will read up on them later." Blatant misrepresentation to strengthen his case.

The last part of his post is taken completely out of the context of the thread to make me look worse. I was on the chopping block at that point and would have been mislynched through towns passivity. Vivax had been expressing his disagreement with my Fuba case for hours and we had town reads on each other. I needed to work with someone to find a good lynch to both stop my mislynch and maximize the odds of hitting scum.

On July 02 2013 15:06 Vivax wrote:
WoS wtf is this



You feel the need to defend yourself for something I found Vayne to be guilty of?

I'll have kinda limited time today, but WoS looks pretty bad to me. As Oats mentioned, his shit is unfocused and I don't really see a townie line of thinking forming from his reads, it's more like he comments on anything that could be construed as scummy, but without drawing conclusions while doing so. Plus, stuff like this



gives me the impression he takes a passive stance in the game. "Yeah talk to me if u want lolz else I won't be posting much". WoS is more proactive than this as town. Sure, he was busy and shit, but if this is his new activity, then he can be sure to have my breath in his neck next day. This looks like the kind of "Let me write a ton of shit and fuck off"-activity.

Finds a bunch of stuff scummy from one guy (Lazer), doesn't dig further into that guy but heads towards JJD while complaining about the miller discussion, then calls my post scummy.

In his final posts he mentions people he wants to look into, effectively leaving all his previous "analysis" inconcluded, then adds some more points against stutters. No sign of Lazer, who he said he would be voting for that post, or me, posting something that "screams" to WoS. Or JJD for that matter. All the scummy stuff he found but still no intention to show how the concerned people are scummy, only the intention to write a load of stuff.

Anyhow, will probably be back around deadline.

On July 03 2013 01:12 marvellosity wrote:


Maybe, but I see townies blatantly sheeping on to people all the time (more than mafia I'd say) for good or bad. e.g. for whatever reason Vivax just blindly sheeped BlazingHand (who was scum) d1 in...er... The Game, Baker did the same to SMMccoy in Smurf, players like fuba/Clarity_nl sometimes just blatantly sheep on to me. Also this is a PM from a friend recently:



I understand what you're getting at, I'm just struggling to see why it's so different from how townies often go about doing similar.

On July 03 2013 01:17 marvellosity wrote:
I'm currently thinking that I hope the Lazer situation resolves itself overnight.

On July 02 2013 18:29 marvellosity wrote:
Hi guys. How much do you think random townie name claims are worth? Was running through my head around a bit last night, and I'm basically kinda assuming scum got at least some fakeclaims.

On July 02 2013 19:40 marvellosity wrote:


Actually it says "The following characters may be in the game" which is not quite the same thing. The reason would be to prevent massclaiming potentially breaking the game

On July 03 2013 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, do you believe Lazer's claim is legit?

On July 03 2013 01:17 marvellosity wrote:
I'm currently thinking that I hope the Lazer situation resolves itself overnight.

On July 03 2013 02:18 gumshoe wrote:


Dont you think that if someone was actually miller they would have claimed by now?

On July 03 2013 02:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:

That's bad. It's gonna be LYLO D3 assuming worst case scenario and there are always people who are hesitant to lynch claimed blues.
Also the fact that if he checks whoever N1 and claims roleblocked N2 he can't have any info on D3 and that's not even alignment indicative.

On July 03 2013 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
as i do not think there are 3 blues, and gumshoe can't know if there is another one.
Lazer could be town due to his claim but that does not change the fact that marv should not doubt his claim.

On July 03 2013 02:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I assume there are not 3 town blues. If gumshoe is vigilante, he can't know if Lazer's claim is legit or not.
However, gumshoe, if you are a vig, shoot marv.

On July 03 2013 03:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WoS do you want to claim miller?

On July 03 2013 03:17 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hi everyone, first off I'd like to say I'm quite demoralized after yesterday. I really felt I did a decent job at playing but apparantly not. I'm generally not someone who gets misslynched. Only happend twice (my very first game and a game where I had way too little time to play, and that was D4. This game, time was not really much of an issue) and I would've got lynched for sure had it not been for the fact that I roled cop, a role that is basically useless now). I will try to comment on some stuff but I'd rather not spend too much time playing mafia this day and instead try to do my best tomorrow instead, when I will have alot of free time! Enough with that though, I'll save the discussion on why my play sucked to postgame.

I will not get shot today, not in a million years, so the fact that I'm holding some reads isn't really going to affect the game too much.

If anyone got some questions, feel free to ask!

On July 03 2013 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WoS would you doubt an uncc'd cop claim for a second if you were miller?

On July 03 2013 03:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

atm you. Stutters agreed with me instantly when i laid my evidence on marv, i don't think he is scum.

On July 03 2013 04:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:

My solstice read (or any other read) has not been in connection with marv. I had a hard time finding mafia, and at the start of N1 my scum reads were fuba/you, which i have already said in thread. gumshoe was null, and everyone else more or less town.

Now gumshoe has claimed, i am sure marv is scum, i am semi-sure Lazer is scum, i am not sure of you and fuba. I don't know how you usually treat situations like this (when you need to think from some other person's point of view with a different role you actually are) but i am shocked you (and Lazer, but that was kinda expected) can't see what i see here.

On July 03 2013 04:16 Lazermonkey wrote:
Am I the only one who find it insanely ironic that Rayn is getting shit stormed like mad D1 because he didn't react to the miller claim from "the PoV that town should have done", yet he is all over marv becuase he didn't react to the cop claim from "the PoV that miller should have"?

Seriously Rayn, pull your shit together...

On July 03 2013 04:42 mkfuba07 wrote:
So this post was a whole progression of realizations, and it's probably going to be confusing, but I hope it'll clarify everything eventually. The stuff collapsed in the quotes was my original post. The next layer is when I realized I screwed up something that could have affected my read greatly. The outer later is the conclusion I came to. And actually, look at his unwillingness to take stances up until his vote on me. It's a whole lot of just saying that one person's comments about another person aren't accurate. Again, could be scummy, but I've seen it all done as town.
It's not until his first case and vote against me that he feels reasonably scummy. He calls it scummy as fuck and then comments only on the part about him (which was either misinterpreted (scum or town) or misconstrued (scum)). He goes on to make another case the next day using the same exact post, which is really, really weird as town. If you think a post is scummy as fuck, and you have reasons to find every aspect of it scummy, why would you not write it all up the first time? It's like he realized his mistake, then tried to correct it after the fact by showing how scummy the entire thing is, when most of the points he makes are just as much useless fluff as my post about marv was. Even if the "vayn-like" confusion was truly a misunderstanding, adding in the rest of it shows he was uncomfortable with the original case. And finally, trying to ignore the ordering of posts I convinced myself was the case, he *still* hasn't actually responded to any of my posts. He apparently doesn't care about the answers to his questions, and hasn't answered any of the ones I've asked (even if my ordering was all garbled up, there was still no response). Therefore, I still think stutters is scum.


I also see that rayn's had exactly the same thoughts about marv's response to WoS's question as I did. Feeling really confident about my change of heart about him now. I had this written out in notepad, and it's actually pretty hilarious how perfectly marv's response fits into it:

==============================
Facts: marv miller claim, laser cop claim
marv and laser both town: legit
marv lying and laser cop: legit
marv miller and laser lying: Doesn't make sense
to fakeclaim cop after a legit miller claim.
both lying: legit

Laser can be scum only if marv is lying.
==============================

Narrowed it down to the what I found to be the most basic statement you could make given the four scenarios, and the end result was the bottom line. Since it's highly likely to be suicide to fakeclaim cop after a legitimate miller claim, marv shouldn't be suspicious of laser if he was, in fact, miller.

On July 03 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like you are suggesting that we have a semi-open setup, but scum do have an open setup?
Now how stupid is that?

On July 03 2013 05:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:

This is what i see.
- marv is not caught up and wants to know who he should be looking into
- i tell him to look into lazer/fuba/wos
- he puts his vote on wos because "everything else is fucking dense"
- you come in with a last minute case on vayne
- marv does not comment on fuba/you in any way, but instead tells us to lynch vayne. wtf? why is he even looking in there as the case is presented by one of the people town currently think is scum, and why did he not look into those town's suspects instead?

On July 03 2013 05:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WoS what do you think of Lazer's hard-defence on marv and him rejection to interact with you?

On July 03 2013 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I am not negating the the possibility of fakeclaim in this particular situation. I am not sure Lazer is scum and that's why i wanted to question him as much as possible. His answers and his defence on marv make no sense, because whether or not he is real cop marv's post about doubting his claim makes zero sense from town PoV. He should be the one most suspicious of marv because he thinks from a cop-PoV.

Keep in mind that if marv is not hiding in scum QT atm, he is away, and scum need to defend him in case of vigi shot.

On July 03 2013 05:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vayne is different player than Lazer and i remember Vivax (or someone) saying Lazer's scumplay is good.

On July 03 2013 05:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dunno about Fuba, he might be scum. You guys can figure out that later after you've lynched marv. ^^

Is Lazer's townplay bad? I have never played with him.

On July 03 2013 06:00 marvellosity wrote:
Anyone claiming miller at this point should be instalynched, so it's totally irrelevant.

On July 03 2013 06:01 WaveofShadow wrote:

Not the point, because we still have no idea if your claim is genuine, which I've been saying all game despite Rayn's flip-flopping on the matter.
If you give us a name we'll have a better idea once others are forced to claim.

On July 03 2013 06:03 marvellosity wrote:


Why was it relevant yesterday? In case another miller claimed?

On July 03 2013 09:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Who do you think is lying?

On July 03 2013 09:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:
How do you not autovote lazer? If you were roleblocked then you're saying that you think mafia not only left the cop alive but didn't roleblock him as well? Shouldnt he should be confirmed scum to you?

On July 03 2013 09:34 JarJarDrinks wrote:

did you edit that vote in? I could have sworn it wasn't there originally

On July 03 2013 09:37 JarJarDrinks wrote:

Strange I totally missed it. Also I didn't realize parity cop worked like that. I thought you just submit 2 names each night and get same/different.

On July 03 2013 08:47 Vivax wrote:


I'd rather stop talking about all these claims and judge people by their play.
How do you feel about lynching marv?

On July 03 2013 09:49 gumshoe wrote:


Wos has now claimed second to last with no green townie spots remaining, he likely waited to see what was left and took the final blue spot thinking hed have a better chance fighting two to three blues then he would a single townie or convincing town hes survivor. Furthermore we pretty much KNOW for a fact Vivax is blue because a) A kp was blocked. b) the only other way a kp could be blocked is by survivor, and no one has claimed survivor. C) Vivak's claim was too quick to just be opportunistic and has not been counter claimed.

Considering all these factors I can only conceive of two believable possibilities, a) Scum witheld kp so that Vivak could claim vet(would be so godamm awesome) b) Vivak is telling the truth.

Vivak is 99.99999 percent vet. Which leaves me Lazer and WOS whose claim I didn't believe even before he made it. Also why block or hold WOS? What has he done to make himself look blue? Wos is asking us to believe two incredibly farfetched things. 1) He just happened to be last claim. 2) He was role blocked? meh and meh. Also why was Lazer not shot if he is detective? Was scum content role blocking him?

I've already gone into why I think they'res little harm in keeping me around. At the moment I find WOS to be so scummy he actually eclipses Marv.

Oh and good god Jar Jar are we agreeing on something? Perhaps you reavaluate your read immediately.

##Vote WOS

On July 03 2013 09:51 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Don't think I'm missing anyone here:

marvellosity - Sgt. Hugo Stiglitz
gumshoe - Shoshanna
s0Lstice - Pierre LaPadite
WaveofShadow - Sgt. Donny Donowitz
mkfuba07 -
Oatsmaster - Pfc. Andy Kagan
Stutters695 -
Vivax - Lt. Aldo Raine
Lazermonkey - Cpl. Wilhelm Wicki
JarJarDrinks - Pfc. Michael Zimmermann

Fuba and Stutters need to claim. Townie points to whichever one claims first.

On July 03 2013 09:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
Actually best scenario for today is that we leave the blue claims alone because it could be resolved tmr.

On July 03 2013 10:04 gumshoe wrote:


Ok let me remove the fluff. TLDR.

You are asking me essentially to believe Lazer is scum, because I know Vivax is town or shiit is messed up.

You are asking me to believe you got role blocked despite your play in no way being indicative of blue.

And you are asking me to believe you just happened to claim the last blue spot.

In light of your spotty town history I'm just not buying it / : in fact your claim just makes me believe Lazer might be town.

On July 03 2013 05:50 WaveofShadow wrote:

This I can get behind.
It seems a little at odds with your thinking earlier today but whatever. What do you make of Fuba's latest post-and-fuck-off?

On July 03 2013 10:26 WaveofShadow wrote:

There's no way scum picked up on this, it's so fucking terrible. I was too afraid to be any more obvious than this though because I really wanted to get my shot off. Maybe I did blueslip somewhere? If I did I'm not aware of it.

Gumshoe I addressed all of your points. I'd still like to hear how exactly you expected me to play 'blue-er'

On July 03 2013 10:49 gumshoe wrote:


Im saying either I die or Wos dies, unless Fuba gets somehow even more suspicious(he hasn't claimed a role yet). Also I'm willing to go because I'm take WOS with me as well

On July 04 2013 01:36 marvellosity wrote:


Could really do with you explaining your terribad shot on me if you're town, dear.

On July 04 2013 01:41 marvellosity wrote:
Seems he's claiming survivor.

I'll wait until later and hear his explanations out. As a token of good faith:

##unvote

On July 04 2013 01:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
WoS is scum.

only scum do this shit.

On July 04 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:


all of it else you die, given we now have two guaranteed non-town lynches (you and fuba)

On July 04 2013 06:14 marvellosity wrote:
I can't tell which way I'm being played >.<

>.>

kinda enjoying it in a perverted kinda way though :>

On July 04 2013 06:28 gumshoe wrote:


This is the mind fuck right here.

Assuming he cant know if hes was blocked by maifa. This is all encompassing play. Hes trying to give the impression he was blocked by actual survivor XD in order to try and convince mafia he has a guardian angel.

If mafia did block him. They still have to maybe come to terms with the idea that hes not survivor and that real survivor is out there, with the potential to protect him because hes supposedly blue.

If they didn't then they have to assume hes either lying or Landa protected him.

If they assume hes lying what do they care, hes casting doubt on the blues and throwing town into disarray. It's really quite brilliant. The problem as I mentioned is town itself not willing to accept his crazy story. I feel WOS thought he could swing it and didn't count on being chosen as scum over Lazer. He also probably counted on scums support persecuting Lazer and defending him... Which I feel he got. Oh and if they feel hes telling the truth then they have to role block him and target Landa.

He may also have powers we are unaware of. Point is they're is something going on here, even if we dont know what we have to accept that it exists. Comparatively they're is nothing happening over on Fubas side.

Also I dont think he believed that scum would take survivor.

On July 04 2013 06:43 marvellosity wrote:
WoS play was just selfish (and riddled with various errors), you're the one that thought it through.

We'll see. I wonder what fuba will have to say about all this.

On July 04 2013 08:51 Vivax wrote:
There is no Hitler, marv claimed miller, lazer claimed cop, WoS picked the last remaining role and claimed a roleblock.
See you in fucking postgame. If you need to find scum, read my posts and Rayn's, the guys who scum chose to shot.
Holy shit.

On July 04 2013 08:55 Vivax wrote:


If you don't give a shit then go away.
No one requests your presence.

Only your scalp and a swastika in your forehead

On July 04 2013 10:15 gumshoe wrote:


Note the bolded, this right here is appeasement of scum. The big wtf change to the game occurred at 08:38 on July 1st

Jar Jars claim occurred on July 1st 23:47 Jar Jar

Lazer happened on July second at 05:56.

Both after.

No one is clear except Marv, whose claim happened at the very start of the game.

Course this begs the question, why did Fuba claim survivor if he had a fake? We can only assume he was given the other miller role, which really really sucks for him.

On July 04 2013 10:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
hi WoS.
Is there anything you wanna talk about?

On July 04 2013 10:51 gumshoe wrote:


Dont lie to me WOS, I'm pretty sure you were just trying to not piss us scum off even more XD thats fine, but It doesn't seem likely. Mafia must hate you right now.

On July 04 2013 13:05 s0Lstice wrote:
oh cool, so you can answer what I just posed to gumshoe then?

On July 04 2013 13:27 Oatsmaster wrote:


How does this affect you?

On July 04 2013 13:41 Oatsmaster wrote:

dont do a bad fakeclaim next then bby

On July 04 2013 13:43 Oatsmaster wrote:

jk yourself every day

On July 04 2013 13:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
A weird thing for me is that he claimed.
I would never have claimed, i didnt even think about it till the mass claim shit. So it seems like really weird for a townie to think of claiming a VT role.

On July 04 2013 14:07 Oatsmaster wrote:

Your stream of consciousness shit felt really townie, like you were irritated that I stopped you and shit. I dunno, I just got a really good feeling that you were town WoS. Which isnt totally accurate.

On July 04 2013 14:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Ok, so here's the deal. I think Wave messed up the timeframes and thought that the pause happened AFTER the whole mass roleclaim discussion. He's making shit up now about not remembering timestamps and being told that he's not allowed to discuss it but check this out:Why would he be "absolutely fucked"? The roleclaim discussion happened AFTER the pause in the game. Which means he must have his role already.

SO I ask him when he got his role:
He's trying to retcon what he said right here. He starts talking about timestamps and says oh he was probably wrong. How could he have been wrong? Did he somehow imagine the feeling of being "absolutely fucked" when people were talking about roleclaims?

WoS is absolutely scum. No doubt about it.

On July 04 2013 23:57 marvellosity wrote:
Is it just me desperately trying to work out what information WoS could possibly have been given that he can't disclose?

On July 05 2013 00:06 marvellosity wrote:
Wasn't digging at you, WoS, more my own personal battle of frustration and all that ^^

I really think we need to lynch fuba, because if WoS is scum constantly referencing host decisions/orders, it's one of the biggest dick moves of all time imo. Don't wanna go down that path.

On July 05 2013 00:11 marvellosity wrote:


The inherently dickish thing would be making up what hosts did or did not tell you. If everything you've said is true, then you have to be survivor. I think making up shit that hosts haven't said is pretty dickish.

On July 05 2013 00:32 marvellosity wrote:


Well, you'll have to reasonably explain to me that WoS as a person would indulge in lying about what the hosts told him if you want me to even entertain your argument about him being mafia.

Can you do that?

On July 05 2013 00:58 s0Lstice wrote:
One other thing that is worth discussing (I've been following on my phone so I'm not sure it's been brought up) is how optimal would it have been for fuba (as scum) to CC one of the other roles? He could have chosen a townie and perhaps delayed his lynch by a day, or he could have even CC'd a teammate. I've been trying to put myself in his place, and I think I would have seriously considered this over going up against the survivor.

On July 05 2013 01:08 Vivax wrote:
Look, it's really not hard to find out who the liar is.
See the time of fuba's claim?
See the first posts from WoS since that happened?

Is he communicating in any way that he's SURE that fuba must be scum cause of the alleged survivor fakeclaim?
No, cause WoS made up the whole fucking story. He's scum.














This is his actual vote explanation, it's not HEY GUYS FUBA IS SCUM, it's "well, I'll simply vote the other lynch option".

On July 05 2013 01:14 Vivax wrote:


Wrong, you need to stay alive, and scumhunting helps you at that when you claim your role to town.
Pointing to fuba being scum immediately would have been your chance to show some good will and not get lynched when counterclaiming.

With your posts not showing that, you show lack of the mindset of someone knowing that someone fakeclaimed.
You should have known that whoever gets lynched first, the other would have been proven a liar.

You didn't act according to that knowledge.

Actually screw most of what I said.
Just thought of this. WoS claims to have gone through ALL of this mess to try avoid scum knowing he is actually the vigilante. But this is BS. He claims vigi that is RBed so the only way scum would not know him being survivor is if the just RNGed their RB onto him. Now this in it self is really fucking unlikely but it does happend. However, if scum actually think that he is vigi, then he is in serious risk of getting killed at night. And survivors want to survive, remember? So the only fucking realistic way that scum would belive that he is vigi is if the survivor randomly RBs him. But then fuba claims he is survivor, he says that he RB anyone.

Why would you ever want to go through anything like this as survivor? Well, you wouldn't... Its just too much of a stretch. Fuba's play can be explained by bad play. But WoS is clearly lying here. WoS is the correct person to lynch...

On July 05 2013 03:00 Lazermonkey wrote:
No survivor in this setup would ever claim vigi THAT GOT ROLEBLOCKED when his ambition was TO AVOID SCUM KNOWING WHO TEH SURVIVOR IS. How can you not see this? He is so fucking obviously lying. And why would he lie here? it doesn't make any goddamn sense...

On July 05 2013 03:03 Lazermonkey wrote:
Ah, well I guess I missread a bit. So you are saying that you claimed vigi because you wanted to put fuba in a position where he was forced to claim miller, is that right?

On July 05 2013 03:09 Lazermonkey wrote:
I can't belive once in a million years that this is true. No way in hell did you just not think of the possibilty of him fake-claiming survivor. Like, the only thing you have to do is survive. Yet you are on the verge of failing that because you didn't think insanely simple stuff liek this through.

If this is true and you indeed are the survivor, you still deserve to get lynched. You are basically playing against your win con by doing shit like this...

On July 05 2013 03:10 s0Lstice wrote:


Can you explain WoS exactly what you were doing to be nice to the scumteam? Are you speaking of claiming vig instead of survivor?

On July 05 2013 03:17 Lazermonkey wrote:
You are not doing a very good job of trying to "contribute".

On July 05 2013 03:21 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I've mentioned the possibility of dual-scumclaims. I'm not really leaning one way or the other. But what I'm sure of is that you can't possbly be survivor.

On July 05 2013 03:23 s0Lstice wrote:


The tone of this post says you expected the scum team to know who you were. Look here too:



Now you are saying this:



Can you explain?

On July 05 2013 05:48 Lazermonkey wrote:
Yhea, but both survivor and mafia wants to survive this lynch very bad so your argument is invalid...

On July 05 2013 07:32 Vivax wrote:
Well gj.

It will be funny after this night when cop doesn't get roleblocked or killed though (according to my theory), with my theory, all he can effectively do is confirm townies with his role, or Landa.

And marv the supertownie millerclaimer will stay alive too.
And what WoS is going to do : He needs to guarantee us that he won't roleblock the cop.

I wish you much fun making plans in your hidden pits, scum. This night might give you trouble.

Rayn might have hit 3 /3 before dying.

On July 05 2013 07:43 JarJarDrinks wrote:
That was the central cog in my case against him.

On July 04 2013 13:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and a random question for Vivax whenever he gets back, if he happens to read this.
How do you know that scum don't have Hitler, hmmm?

On July 05 2013 08:00 Vivax wrote:


I'll trust you if you roleblock someone tonight.

The only sporting chance you can give scum is to roleblock the DT.
Scum Lazer can claim RB "Sorry bro no check". If he's town then you did scum a favour.
We should ask him what he thinks of it hehehe...

The thing is, whatever you do, you will have to conceal your real intentions.
Let's assume for a moment you will jail me and stop the next attempted shot from scum.

Scum will shoot you if they know you do that.

Needless to say that if you help scum and not town, you'll be on the lynching list tomorrow.

On July 05 2013 13:20 Vivax wrote:
What is this sudden idea that scum got fakeclaims.

You just lynched someone who proves you wrong, he got partially outed cause he lakced a fakeclaim.
Also I think there is no Hitler and Lazer + marv are fakeclaims, hence why I say that the only source of roleblocks is WoS.

But you'll see for yourself when cop and miller are still alive.
We'll see.

On July 05 2013 22:59 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I think WoS is scum and I think it's a cheesy tactic and I wouldn't hate him forever.

On July 05 2013 18:46 marvellosity wrote:
Maybe you should ask the person who claims it's totally broken without any reasoning as to why it would be broken and despite an extremely experienced player offering his experience on setups earlier.

WaveofShadow - you should try to save a townie tonight, otherwise town can lynch you tomorrow without any repurcussions... if you get a save off though, then you get us an extra lynch.

Might actually be a decent idea to lynch WoS regardless. It'll be MYLO tomorrow and we don't have to worry about reducing KP anymore; and lynching the survivor wouldn't lose us the game, same as today. Also if WoS flips survivor then JJD is pretty much an auto-lynch the next day

On July 05 2013 23:09 marvellosity wrote:


You're not reading.

Making a save would DRAMATICALLY decrease the chances of town lynching you.

On July 05 2013 23:16 marvellosity wrote:


No. It's 6-2-1 now. If a NK goes through it's 5-2-1. At this point it's MYLO, except town can lynch you and we know we won't lose, but if we lynch a townie we lose. We don't have the incentive of reducing KP either.

If you make a save, it's still 6-2-1. And we have no incentive to lynch into you at all because it's not mylo.

On July 05 2013 23:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
I assume you vote with scum at lylo if they claim

On July 05 2013 23:26 marvellosity wrote:


Um, because the townies want to vote for mafia and the mafia want to vote for a townie and it'll be really obvious?

Looks like the safe option is to lynch you tomorrow after all.