EPTI Swear This Is Normal Mini Mafia - Page 7
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
to generate discussion, I want to see who the stragglers vote for | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Why not vote for yourself then? Why sylencia especially? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:02 ShiaoPi wrote: So the generate discussion... Why not vote for yourself then? Why sylencia especially? he is your competition, I have no interest in running for mayor | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:03 VayneAuthority wrote: he is your competition, I have no interest in running for mayor I doubt that he is really running at all. Has not voted himself even. Why sylencia over for example axle who voted himself? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:05 ShiaoPi wrote: I doubt that he is really running at all. Has not voted himself even. Why sylencia over for example axle who voted himself? Don't really trust axle | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:15 ShiaoPi wrote: fair enough, but why sylencia in comparison to the others active in the thread? he expressed interest in becoming mayor so I voted for him. Starting an alternative bandwagon to see what happens. If you have a better idea to get reads, im all ears. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
What is your stance on my campaign? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:22 ShiaoPi wrote: I am intersted in getting sylencia back here right now. What is your stance on my campaign? Null until everyone votes, if there's just one mayor and everyone votes him we gain zero info, thats what scum wants. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:00 Hapahauli wrote: Also, jampi is town. EZ. I keep reading up to this post and going. uh. I dont know why. I accept you have better knowledge of Jampi than me. (equivalently?)I expect at some time to get a good read on Syl if Syl posts, for some reason I think I can read Syl. I accept you pushed jampi and he rang pretty true in fairly small time frames. What I don't have but I guess you do (or did when you coached him?) is have good estimate of whether scum jampi could do that? (see the BH venn diag) Also what it might be that is making me uneasy is that is quite a few town reads you're clocking up. and labelling them EZ. I find towns tend to lose when they get complacent, hence you promoting complacency can have scum motivation. Clocking up that many town reads seems harder to marry into the pattern. This would worry me more except i have heard that sooner or later if you are scum then you start posting baby seal pictures then we lynch you. Hapa: Can you aid me in not being distracted by this post of yours? @Sylencia Please post more. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
... Hapa: Can you aid me in not being distracted by this post of yours? When I give early-D1 town-reads, my goal isn't to be 100% accurate and completely ignore analyzing a person for the rest of the game. My primary objective behind giving early-D1 town-reads is to get discussion started and to fish for reactions. I've found that it is the most natural way for me to talk early and start meaningful discussion. That's not to say that my town-reads are completely unjustified. For example, I firmly believe that ShaioPi is town, due to how absurdly different his current mayoral campaign is from any of his scum-games I've ever seen. Likewise, I believe you're town because a) your early-game burst of posting sounds like a townie excited to play, and b) this latest post by you shows a level of critical thinking beyond the capacity of what I evaluate your scum-game to be capable of. As for my read on jampi in particular, this post struck me as absurdly genuine: On June 09 2013 15:00 jampidampi wrote: I have a lot of subconscious reasons to trust you. 1. You were my coach in a newbie 2. You were my hydra partner and we were town 3. I haven't read a scum game of yours Also, cookies It's a very blunt, honest, and complete picture of his thought-process. Scum under pressure would likely fudge some answer about how ShiaoPi's meta is so obvious on a simple readthrough of his past scum-games. Instead, jampi is using a lot of arguments that scum would be incredibly scared of using. Like what scum would admit that they haven't read one of my scum-games before deciding to trust me? Now to emphasize, this does not mean that I'll forget about Jampi for the rest of the game because I think he's confirmed town. Rather, a good portion of the reason I'm making these reads is to make people start actually talking about reads/analysis and to direct my early-game focus. Also, I'm usually pretty accurate with my early-game reads :3 | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Voting for the sake of opposition/discussion-starting is OK, however not at the expense of ignoring all the other discussion happening in the thread. Like Shaio's mayoral campaign is a perfectly good topic for discussion. I don't understand why you think an unjustified vote for a person who's not even running a serious campaign would somehow be a better way to start discussion or even pro-town for that matter. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Also a last note about early-game reads... every read someone makes early D1 is completely worthless. Early D1 is only about getting people to talk, and that's it. It is always important re-consider every single one your reads and start from scratch when the D1 lynch gets close. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18846784 heavily edited to get the bits I want. On June 09 2013 17:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Axle [....] It's a very blunt, honest, and complete picture of his thought-process. [...] Like what scum would admit that they haven't read one of my scum-games before deciding to trust me? [...] Ta that interaction gives me a good start at the context that I need to understand/evaluate your future posts. Also the two points (aspects of jampis play) are what I will try to build a mental model of(his context) when I read his meta. (aka do i think he could do that as scum) {and yeah i hadn't noticed the implications of admitting not reading your scum game before deciding to trust you.} AKA that helps me find where green and red on BHs diagram is for both of you... Now if the rest of the thread will just oblige by posting words... lots of them all at once. It might indeed be EZ. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On June 09 2013 17:38 Hapahauli wrote: @ Axle (cont.) Also a last note about early-game reads... every read someone makes early D1 is completely worthless. Early D1 is only about getting people to talk, and that's it. It is always important re-consider every single one your reads and start from scratch when the D1 lynch gets close. oh yeah, early game reads. Those early ones are usually worthless based on fresh air, fairy tales fiction and BS. Consider when i proved 100% Bh was town... that was pregame. His pregame alignment was town. I completely recant that read now for his in game alignment. My early read on oats seems shaky too, but so far he has done nothing to shake it. So yes I am probably aware of the usual ebb and flow of the day, even if sometimes I get it totally wrong. | ||
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
On June 09 2013 14:32 Hapahauli wrote: @ Sylencia Why do you want to be elected mayor? I like it when people run campaigns, but I detest joke campaigns. Obviously none of this is remotely sufficient rationale to vote for you. Hard for me to tell what you consider a serious campaign vs a joke campaign. Does someone who does a post like ShiaoPi's count as a serious campaign or not? If so, it's hard for me to take your vote for mayor seriously. In all honesty, I'm not going to push for myself to be the mayor, I haven't had enough experience to really know how to use these roles well and it'd be more suited to another. On June 09 2013 14:33 AxleGreaser wrote: >We have quite a few people in for discussion now, but what is there to discuss at the moment.. We grasp at straws. I already voted Oats because ... Now when I say: > Not until I know your alignment and probably/possibly/maybe what the powers restrictions are or even know who will > know what about them when. In the absence of all knowledge, I already chose the optimal course. Which mentions both determining alignments and setup speculation Sylencia: < "Also, we won't know what these powers/restrictions are until the election is over so there's no real point trying to < work it out. In which case everyone ends up voting themselves as the 'optimal' route?" Which seems to have overlooked finding out alignments, the important bit. If you already knew them that would explain that assumption. That's what I do. Now I see what you do. Also do remember, while we do this, to notice what other people are not doing. Are you saying we're working out alignments to ensure we've got a Town Mayor? I thought that was a given. On June 09 2013 14:46 ShiaoPi wrote: @Sylencia: Where did you went off to? More than enough to discuss here! (Also cookies if you do the right thing!) Went off to stream dota <.< In terms of mayor voting, I'll hold off for now. On June 09 2013 15:00 Hapahauli wrote: ##Lynch VayneAuthority Was this vote purely because he mayor voted for someone you didn't want to be mayor? You've mentioned having a mayor vote on someone who isn't seriously running for it to be bad, but does that make him scum? I'd like to see the link in reasoning for that. | ||
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:22 ShiaoPi wrote: I am intersted in getting sylencia back here right now. What is your stance on my campaign? I'm pretty neutral about it, you're the only one who's really put up their hand for being mayor (I have but semi-in jest, and I'm not sure if Axle's is serious or not). Would you say you're the best fit for mayor even if everyone else wanted to be mayor too? | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
@Hapa Are you trying to help Vayne play better or are you noting something you find somewhat scummy? Your post is not clear to me. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
it may still ask not what i mean. meh. It is a difficult little thought please read carefully and discuss it with me. After one or two iterations we may reach common ground. Gross generalisations about your meta + Show Spoiler + I have, when you played them, been a spectator of some of your previous games. (I think mainly les) At the time I dreaded playing with you and having to try and read you due to choices you make that for me potentially put all your play in the orange bucket. This happens when you assert that you get _all_ your reads from flip analysis of voting and nks. You seemingly in the other games I read use that claim about yourself to justify some level 'no comment' on things in thread. Those are broad sweeping generalisations, and they are I think about your town and scum play. (orange bit) if after the discussion they are wrong sorry? Concrete observations in this game. In this post you say you do things to promote discussion. + Show Spoiler + On June 09 2013 15:01 VayneAuthority wrote: to generate discussion, I want to see who the stragglers vote for Conversely when you are poked (asked a question) + Show Spoiler + On June 09 2013 15:25 VayneAuthority wrote: Null until everyone votes, if there's just one mayor and everyone votes him we gain zero info, thats what scum wants. Do you engage in conversation. Does the discussion proceed or does your answer tend to shut it down? Your discussion promotion method (vote) is something that is easy for scum to emulate. Answering questions when being prodded is harder, please try to to do the harder things too. Here is a new question. Independent of how the votes pan out, because sometimes at the end of the day there is one no brainer candidate. If we discussed the mayoral campaign, and found out who was shy about commenting during the day before the result was clear, would that help find scum or would it as you seem to suggest yield 'zero information'. Do note I agree wholeheartedly with the general sentiment, (and I am pretty sure my previous games will support the notion that,) I oppose days with one wagon, but primarily because there is no/limited discussion. lastly even if you need the votes (or you get zero information), I think a number of other people need significant interactive discussion and the vote, so please comment more fully on the question of the mayoral election. | ||
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