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Hi all, RoL has dragged me out of my mafia slumber to be his little slave for this game.
I sort of skimmed/read through so I apologize if something is off.
@gumshoe Why are you so adamant on people masoning you? I mean obviously you think you are town, but it seems a little much to expect people to just trust you?
@layabout Little weirded out that you said:
On July 18 2013 04:50 layabout wrote: I think we should lynch vivax today.
I will explain why in like 2 hours. And then...
On July 18 2013 09:58 layabout wrote: vivax you only had 3 wall for me to read when i said i would write a case. But now it would require way too much effort on my part with no real benefit. So 5 hours after the first post, and 3 hours after you said you would deliver... you did not deliver and says it's too much effort. What is no real benefit? That town gets an analysis of someone being town or mafia?
re: raynepelikoneet Does raynpelikoneet always just straight up say they have a read on 13/18 people? And I mean already proven wrong on VE being scum... >_> I don't know how rayn plays and I get the impression that they're pretty veteran/good from what people have been saying in the thread so I'm a little confused here. Straight up claiming day 1 is a little shifty... Oh wait, he claimed something he can't prove, how nice. And then immediately is like, heyyyy, "This makes me think scum have one too." That's a lot of information for a very short first post. That sounds a lot more definitive than what VE said which is "Role /= Alignment. Just FYI, Ver is a huge proponent of this axiom and even if I confirm my role that shouldn't confirm my alignment. Just sayin." Then again rayn just seems overly cocky about things (ex. VE being mafia) so I'll take the definitive attitude with a grain of salt. Also he's in the mini mason circle (rayn, gumshoe, oats, DrH) so I'm not voting for him until further examining the circle's activities.
Also, fwiw: Rayn posts end at ~4, and then posts at 6:58, RoL posts event at 7:04, Rayn jumps in at 7:12 going HEY GUYS LOOK AT ME IM TOWN AND HERE ARE PEOPLE I CLEARED. That certainly can line up with Rayn gets online, tells RoL to silence himself, and then goes all LOLOLOL LOOK IM TOWN.
Everything just feels a little much. Immediate claim to be like hey I'm town I'm claiming a role that can't be proved. And then EVENT to be like hey I'm DEFINITELY town now.
Re:VisceraEyes VE claiming at least makes sense because he was at risk of being lynched and I'm not sure why people didn't just let him live 'til Day 2 to use his vigi (case 1: he doesn't shoot we lynch him 1 day late whoop dee doop; case 2: he shoots wrong target because he's mafia, 1 for 1 is not a bad trade for town this early; case 3: he shoots town's chosen target and we got an extra day lynch from it, can argue about whether he's mafia or town vigi afterwards) Why is it always so hard to do anything based on common sense in mafia?
So looking at the voting patterns on VE: oats - pretty early on, never changed, did not post post-claim pre-lynch, he went to bed at 2:30 and then didn't post until 10 hours later. I mean I don't care if oats sleeps 10 hours or went and did other things but the night before his last message was at 1:34, and he was back at 9:23 with a reasonably sized post. You'd think close to lynching time would be more important. Though he did say pretty definitively he was going to bed and he was pretty sure VE was scum and that was that. gumshoe - swapped after VE claimed America sloosh - voted for VE before claim, did not see posts after claim yama - voted for VE before claim, did not see posts after claim FT - switched from DrH to VE 1 min before VE claimed America, then unvotes post-claim Ace - votes for VE after VE claims America SnB - votes for VE after VE claims America layabout - votes for VE after VE claims America, then switches to MZ kholly - votes for VE after VE claims America, then switches to MZ, and then votes for VE 3min before deadline (lol all 3 people who mason'd VE voted for his death)
Yeah so VE got himself killed... that's really confusing... so I assume he didn't see kholly's vote change. So in the perspective of both players: VE - 5, 6, 5 -> 5, 5, 6 which makes sense, he voted for MZ over Sloosh, he wanted to change his vote and influence the lynch kholly - 5, 6, 5 -> 6, 6, 4 which is a tie... whatever that means for the game. He MAYBE could have known VE was going to switch after since they are in mason contact, but that seems really unlikely we're talking like 5min total here. So he made it a tie between VE and Sloosh, so he doesn't want Sloosh to get lynched?
@Ace Wtf Ace I don't get it. I never really got you, you made weird decisions before when we played and I'm too lazy to check if you were town or mafia then. I agree claiming is stupid, but VE at least has a provable claim whereas rayn just looks like way too many coincidences. Why did you vote for VE after he claimed America? Especially emphasizing that if he claimed dayvig we should lynch him.
To people in general: I haven't been playing for a while, curious if someone can give me a quick rundown of "good" players. Not asking for town or mafia read, just curious who are perceived to be veterans or skilled players and who's new around here.
Please confirm that there is no rule about mafia having only 1 mason and town having 2 (I remember someone saying that). I say that because if that's true I could probably math up a strategy to pull out some mafia very easily.
I've spent already too much time on this post instead of work... Hi again everyone. =P
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rayne: So you publicly say you're going to mason someone. Immediately claim to them with your oh so amazing townread on them, and then claim to town with no provocation whatsoever 30min afterwards. I don't see the point of doing that. You just made the most useless claim possible because you can't prove it.
Also none of your actions clear you. It's not like gumshoe is now not going to claim to you because you got silenced. You did something that delays you getting information at worst, and makes you look very clean at best. If you're mafia and gumshoe claims something important to you, killing him still draws suspicion to you, and not killing him means knowingly leaving a strong role around. At best the rest of the mafia has to push for his lynch, because you sure as hell can't with that oh so amazing townread on him. But no, if you got silenced, there's no possible way you betrayed gum, you're so town, it must be because the mafia was suspicious of gum being important after you publicly told everyone that gum is going to claim to you. Oh and gumshoe wasn't exactly happy you painted a giant target on his head, was that intentional too? "less thanks for mentioning the claim stuff...that was kinda private."
Oh, how convenient, you were asleep. You saying you would've totally pardoned VE doesn't mean shit and you acknowledge that right? Because at lease VE acknowledged that hey, role != alignment and you're being all just saying, I would've pardoned him, give me townie points for something that has absolutely no value.
At this point my read on you is basically that you are a cocky person (oh look at all these reads I /totally/ know and all these snap decisions I instantly made), you're either really smart or you're just doing random dumb shit as overeager town. At this point I would like to hear from players who have played with rayn in the past re: whether you think rayn is capable of that. And if rayn is not, is it likely for someone else to be smart enough to orchestrate that as mafia and have rayne carry it out like that. If you guys believe it's highly unlikely, then okay, you're just an overeager townie and I'll keep that in mind when reading your posts. =P
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@gumshoe Why were you so adamant on people masoning you? I mean obviously you think you are town, but it seems a little much to expect people to just trust you?
Repeated for people who are confused about VE's voting Yeah so VE got himself killed, which makes zero sense, so I assume he didn't see kholly's vote change. So in the perspective of both players: VE - 5, 6, 5 -> 5, 5, 6 which makes sense, he voted for MZ over Sloosh, he wanted to change his vote and influence the lynch kholly - 5, 6, 5 -> 6, 6, 4 which is a tie... whatever that means for the game. He MAYBE could have known VE was going to switch after since they are in mason contact, but that seems really unlikely we're talking like 5min total here. So he made it a tie between VE and Sloosh, so he doesn't want Sloosh to get lynched?
On July 18 2013 20:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can prove my claim if needed. Why are you saying it can't be proved? Why would i need provocation to claim an anti-town role in thread as town? Assume for a second i am town, do you think it was wise for me to claim or not? Did you read the part in me/Oats logs where i said "if i hadn't claimed a possible rolecop + scum pardoner will fuck me up".
I mean, you /could/ prove your claim, at the cost of delaying a lynch. And you also agree that it's bad for the pardon to be used... sooo no not really you can't prove it.
No I didn't read it, the logs were too long and there were too many things to catch up on. >_> Read it now, but honestly you seem to be throwing a million roles out there as your assumptions. You think if you didn't make this much commotion mafia would just randomly role-check you? Oh and you think mafia have a pardoner...
If you were mafia, AND there's a mafia pardoner (I'm not convinced that's a thing you seem to think there's one of every role or something) I don't think you're the pardoner. A role claim as a mafia only proves that someone on the mafia has that role, not that you personally do. And taking this much heat as a plain mafia goony I think is perfectly fine for the potential benefits of being super green/blue. You claimed the most undiscussable role, don't think there's much unnecessary attention on that. Also if you're going with scum doesn't like unnecessary attention then hey, if anyone is scum they should just get in giant fights in town. Good tip rayn.
What's wrong with sharing claims with Oats? Like you said, if he can find out in other channels, then you're just further greening yourself, not really actually contributing. I'm still a little worried about your actions. It's one thing to be like yeah okay I'm cocky I say things for certain when I don't mean them, it's another thing to go INSTA-READ GREEN GG we're now bffs Oats. As a side note, you claiming all this expertise in PM land makes me want to mason you way more than gumshoe who is over there like LOOK AT ME GUYS MASON ME.
Oh no, you're so good at PM style games and then make such a huge slip on gumshoe? Do you usually just get all omg let's post everything in the thread especially if you think the people you are talking to are town?
Interesting, you claim to be capable of playing this well as mafia. But you wouldn't do it because you wouldn't do stupid things. I find your actions more stupid from a town perspective than a mafia perspective, for what that's worth. Especially given your slip up with gum.
@layabout
On July 19 2013 01:39 layabout wrote: @slOosh dont ask dumb questions
@koy there is no point posting analysis at that time because it's too late to start a wagon and vivax was leaving and i didn't feel like anyone was listening to me.
You going to post that analysis now? Don't make promises you don't plan on keeping if you're town... Someone might not have looked closely at Vivax because you said you were going to do it. Also up to now you still haven't given your read on Vivax, you think Vivax is scum or not? That analysis would be a good start to you posting stuff that's actually useful.
Re:Ace Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ace is probably town idiot. Doesn't matter if he plays this blatantly enough noobies eventually start a bandwagon because they get provoked. I would strongly suggest keeping Ace around and not lynching him anytime soon.
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Alright I'll mason you tomorrow if you're alive rayn. If not I'll mason you Helvetica. If only for old times sake and because you're lonely. =P
Your last paragraph on rayn makes sense to me Helvetica. I'm personally not sold on this whole mafia volunteering as little information as possible thing, because that seems like an easy trade. Unverifiable information/information town could reasonably get anyways doesn't cross someone off as scum on my list. I mean Rayn could tell his mafia buddy FT et al. to accuse you instead. But at this point I've basically resigned to Rayn is not /that/ good as why he is town. >_>
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I'm totally listening to that song right now because of you Ace, thanks.
Also wtf yeah gumshoe why were you so harsh? o-O I was merely asking why you were pushing for people to specifically mason you when they didn't know who to mason, instead of their most town read for example. I have no idea why you would react that harshly towards me because of such a simple question. >_<;;
Also I never said Rayn was my scummiest read. I just found his play very weird and wanted to get a better understanding of why he did certain actions because I would not have done so in his position if I was town.
Also please don't be a hypocrite. Telling me that calling townies bad (I said he was either really good scum or a bad townie) when you literally say "as scum or town you are the worst kind of player" and you're the one saying "pretty much extrapolates my being incompetent from a single thing that they personally didn't like or found distasteful." I never said you're incompetent or even remotely hinted at it, I merely asked you a question.
No I don't have a case against you, I was never trying to make one. Why the hell are you putting quotes around something I never /ever/ said?? I NEVER said I didn't like you, I NEVER said you had no mason buddies. What the fuck. I never wasted space posting this, I spend 2 lines asking you a question, and now you flipped your shit at me...
What I'm saying with the VE lynch was that 1. VE did not try to kill himself (duh) he was just picking MZ over Sloosh, 2. knolly probably didn't know that VE changed his vote that late (I didn't see your post when I posted mine and even refreshed after) so I don't think it was to kill VE. Last minute votes are always going to be heavily scrutinized and that's about the stupidest way you could try to kill day vigi as scum. (Personally I'd probably just AFK after the claim so I didn't have to change my vote from VE, or after enough momentum builds on MZ come in and say oh no guys we can't lynch VE #unvote)
Again I don't know why you have so much disdain for me for the 2 lines of text I wrote, as a question, directed to you. D: There's no reason for this kind of language "want me to respond to some idiotic far fetched idea of yours" and assume all this shit when I was just asking a question. Holy shit.
"Other wise give your posts to somebody who actually knows whats going on, cause you clearly dont." "but please for the love of Palmer stop calling people who you think are townie bad, you damage him and yourself when you do so and you risk more worthless posts."
Are you fucking serious gumshoe? I would like an apology for your hypocritical ass.
And yes, this post is mostly fluff and directed at gumshoe because I am slightly emotionally distraught at this shit. It's been a while since I've played mafia, I come back and some guy calls me completely fucking useless from 3 posts and a question I directed at him. I'm not going to use up 10 posts tonight, so yes I am going to use 10% of my posts to talk to you gumshoe because as a human being you have upset me. >_>
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Yay. *hugs* I'll comply with your SnB question then gumshoe.
"If you want to be useful answer me this, What do you think of S@B and his post flip distinction of those who voted because of Ve's claim and those who voted in spite of it (him being in this second category which is supposedly less bad according to him)
Uhm, I read SnB's post regarding his vote on VE. It didn't make a lot of sense to me... I would've accepted I was "busy" with my girlfriend and didn't check the thread before lynch. But instead he sticks to saying he wants to lynch VE, and claiming didn't change that. I mean, wat? -> "I mean, I don't think his claim was a good reason to not lynch him. Claiming is just something that VE does, it's not a reason that he's scum. "
@SnB - So uh, did you want to lynch VE or not after knowing he claimed? xD
gum I would say SnB looks scummy if he's had a record of playing some games (I don't like passing judgement on weird behavior if it's new players or chez). I didn't really get any content out of his posts, like pointing out Ace policy lynching. Felt like he got suspected, backed off, got some people back on his side, and then went back to his old ways.
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o-o;; Does Vivax go insane much? It's kinda weird...
My current scum reads (before we see night actions) is layabout
Did that weird thing with claiming he'll give analysis on Vivax. He seemed pretty adamant on VE until others seem to go to MZ and then he finally switches after saying "MZ is being an openly anti town useless douchbag. must ... resist ... urge ... to ... switch"
Doesn't really back up his claims, just throws shit around. "slOsh's attitude really does not fell like the attitude of somebody that is trying to find scum. I think he is deliberately overlooking stuff that should be obvious." Can you explain what he is deliberately overlooking? I'm not saying I think sloosh is innocent or guilty, I just think you should back up your claims.
Also he just accused 4 people in 2 posts with very little content, might be traitor trying to provoke people to see if he can sniff out who the mafia are.
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ROL IM SORRY I WONT DO IT AGAIN
Uhm, sorry I don't want to circlejerk but I don't think that clears rayn 100%, that is all. xD I will be masoning him today.
The hiro kill strikes me as really weird... maybe a vet got a good read on him, but he was completely off my radar.
I messaged RoL asking but just fyi: Does the bodyguard show up as died in place of X when he protected someone? Or does it just show up as bodyguard has died either way?
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Uh... wat.
Ace - Can you tell us more about your role? Is it alignment only? Is it role and alignment? Is it role only? (I mean you said guilty, you didn't say exactly what)
Also why are you claiming right now? With PM and enough people already doubting FT in the thread there's no reason to reveal yourself...
Uhh also why did Malongo say FT and then Ace said "good enough guess" and then voted for FT... This all looks rather fishy. >_<;;
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On July 19 2013 14:42 kholly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2013 14:41 Korynne wrote: Uh... wat.
Ace - Can you tell us more about your role? Is it alignment only? Is it role and alignment? Is it role only? (I mean you said guilty, you didn't say exactly what)
Also why are you claiming right now? With PM and enough people already doubting FT in the thread there's no reason to reveal yourself...
Uhh also why did Malongo say FT and then Ace said "good enough guess" and then voted for FT... This all looks rather fishy. >_<;; What if he is just a voice for the real detective?
Then he can answer those questions for the real detective as well... I don't see what you're asking kholly.
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Hey guys, how do you feel about asking vigilante (if there is one, because I'm not rayn and I don't assume everyone has a role =P) to vigi FT?
Scenario 1a: Lynch FT, FT is scum, continue scum hunting.
Scenario 1b: Vigi FT, FT is scum, fast forward scum hunting process.
Scenario 2a: Lynch FT, FT is town, panic and confusion ensues, DrH commits seppuku, fingers of confusion point towards Ace and we get to do night actions and wait to decide if we lynch Ace tomorrow.
Scenario 2b: Lynch FT, FT is town, panic and confusion ensues, DrH commits seppuku, we get down to business on Ace and lynch him today/he talks his way out of it and we lynch another likely mafia target.
Feels like we speed things up either way and killing off FT would let us focus on "normal" mafia hunting instead of this clusterfuck of Ace claiming. Thoughts?
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On July 20 2013 10:49 FirmTofu wrote: Let's look at our possible lynches today. FirmTofu - I'm town. Ace lied when he said he checked me. DrH is the only one with a case against me. Ace - MZ says he checked Ace and got SK Vivax - kush says he's mafia according to what someone said in a PM kholly - chez who is playing like mafia chez Oatsmaster - rayn says he knew too much information about Gumshoe's death.
I would be willing to lynch kholly or Ace. I'm leaning toward Ace because SK is far more dangerous than potential mafia and we can always lynch MZ if he lied.
Hmm let's see...
FirmTofu - You claim you're town, that's nice. Ace probably lied, that's nice too. Still weirded out by the fact that you say DrH is the only one with a case against you, so he's the only one that deserves to get you killed? Also pretty sure last time I checked one case is enough, if enough people are convinced. Forget this whole Ace/FT shenanigans there's plenty of evidence to lynch you without that.
Did I miss the part where you and MZ are total bffs? MZ says he checked Ace and that's immediately accepted? Also SK is not an immediate lynch target is it? If there's people who actually look really scummy, like say, you, then we should probably lynch you first.
I guess I also missed the part where you were bffs with kuch. Closest thing I would say is layabout was claiming he was going to make a case against Vivax, and then just completely dropped that claim. layabout is completely unmentioned by you.
kholly - Sure whatever.
Oatsmaster - Same deal as Vivax, not sure how they magically made it to the possible lynches list. It's like you took everyone who even had a finger accidentally pointed in their direction.
(MZ) - oh wait, you didn't put your bff on this list? Oh wait, it's another FirmTofu no guys he can't be scum because that other guy is scum (Ace).
(SnB) - he was on your scum list, don't see him on this list. Why the sudden change of heart? There's enough other people who think he's scummy and should be lynched. Side note does nobody else notice the ##kill thing? xD Like, we're just completely ignoring that or what? Or we waiting to see what mods say first?
Why so scummy FT? :3
[[Don't mind the tone of voice in this post, it was for artistic flair. Not claiming it was good, just saying, it wasn't like, I'm mad at chu or nething. =P ]]
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On July 20 2013 11:47 FirmTofu wrote: I wasn't saying these were good lynches. I was merely mentioning the people with the most votes that had a case on them. This was supposed to be a concise way to organize the information we have at hand.
DrH is the only one who's made a case on me. That is a fact. I never said that he is the only person who deserves to get me killed. Why are you twisting my words and making it sound like I'm saying something that I'm not?
Killing SK would reduce the kills per night, meaning that one less town player would die every single night. This would give us a huge advantage moving forward. Of course the SK is a priority. If MZ is lying about his claim, we can always lynch him.
Ace lied, but fessed up to it. This makes me even more convinced that he was trying to pull some big play as SK to try and be confirmed town.
SnB is on my scumlist, sure, but like I said in my post, I was more sure of my town reads than my scum reads. I'm willing to change my scum reads based on new information. I don't see why you would expect me to remain stagnant.
Yes like I said, pardon the dramatic flair. I just mean you seem so set on DrH being the ONLY one having a case on you. Like if anyone else votes for you you'd claim that they don't have a case. Doesn't really matter, I'm not going to argue with you about lynching you.
Fair point didn't think about the KP thing just thought mafia worse than SK. Though arguably SK could help town if it's leaning towards town losing, and maybe at least kill off some inactives. (I suspect Hiro might be killed by SK since I don't think anyone was paying any attention to him)
I didn't realize that was a vote tally and you were talking about that, not your proposed possible lynches. My bad. So uhm, we lynching MZ now? xD
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Hey MZ, you going to explain why you lied about Ace being SK? If you're going to say you were trolling, you better give a good reason.
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On July 20 2013 13:10 FirmTofu wrote: Ignore everything I ever said ever. I've been playing terribly this game. I need some time to go over the new information and hopefully I'll come to my senses.
I will be back later. If I run out of posts, I'm going to ask rayn to relay information from my pms to him to the thread.
I repeat, my scumreads are probably wrong.
Uhh, you originally put MZ on the town list. And now that he lied about checking Ace you think he's lynchable but then now you're backing off on that as well? MZ lynch seems pretty straightforward to me.
Fine, everyone is going to be a wuss then I'll start the vote on MZ. It will stay there until he explains himself on why he lied about checking Ace.
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On July 20 2013 16:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: There is no SK role in the game. When I said I had a check on Ace it was just continued banter that we'd been having all game, however FT jumped all over this "check" and instantly believed it and was even willing to lynch Ace because of it. This is not a townie response. The correct response would have been to ignore me, the second most correct response would have been to try and continue scum hunting rather than get caught up by a possible SK. SK's are simultaneously great for scum and a bane for scum. They allow mafia to go after anti town factions in order to appear green while at the same time they can potentially NK scum team members. This is why it is always a good scum strat to try and get the SK lynched. Get town cred and stop him from shooting you.
There's no SK, it's in the OP. FT's reaction to my "check" was waaay too off for me.
Okay can we stop with the shenanigans? Baiting is nice and all but town just turns into a giant clusterfuck, there's enough things to analyze and talk about without everyone throwing in their shenanigans at the thread. If you want to do that go scumhunt in PM land, and come back to town where you have evidence.
How do you know there's no SK role in the game? The OP says 6 mafia 1 traitor. It didn't say there are no neutral roles. Were you in PM contact with Ace?
Uh yeah FT should jump all over the check Ace accused him of being mafia and wanted to get him lynched. If he's town he obviously thinks Ace is scum. If he's mafia, well it makes sense to think as town and try to get Ace lynched pretending to be innocent. Pretty straight forward.
Why would the correct response be to ignore you? You claimed to know some information, why would it be correct to just ignore it?? Second most correct answer sounds like the same which is to ignore it and then scum hunt. Uh, like FT said a possible SK is KP, well let's just ignore that kind of stuff. We're not talking about whether we want to lynch Ace, we're talking about just IGNORING THE WHOLE THING. No, that's not the correct response.
SK would shoot people who don't matter, and then shoot either towards town or scum depending on which side he thinks is winning. Hiro seems like a good SK target, he wasn't very active and nobody was suspicious of him (I don't remember if he himself made any strong accusations either).
Your plan is waaaaay too off for me. Try to make a better plan next time if you're going to add shenanigans.
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I really need to catch up on work I've been slacking since RoL has gotten me to join this game. I'll definitely be back way before the day ends, I've only skimmed through Vivax's arguments so far, but at least he seems sane again. xD
For convenience for now:
1. Ace 2. Kushm4sta - 15/20 posts, mostly short 3. VisceraEyes 4. layabout - ZERO POSTS DAY TWO 5. Mr.Wiggles - 1/20 posts, said he was in PM land before 6. strongandbig - 7/20 posts, hasn't posted since he shot Ace 7. raynpelikoneet - 17/20 posts, looking for post donations 8. Meapak_Ziphh - 13/20 posts, mostly short 9. Vivax - 7/20 posts, giant posts of content :3 10. FirmTofu 11. VayneAuthority - 16/20 posts 12. kholly - 14/20 posts 13. Korynne - 9/20 posts 14. Yamato77 15. gumshoe 16. sandroba 17. Adam4167 - 5/20 posts, gone to a wedding 18. Koshi - 7/20 posts 19. Oatsmaster - 3/20 posts 20. HiroPro 21. Marvellosity - 10/20 posts 22. DoctorHelvetica - 8/howevermanyDrHdontgiveafuck posts 23. slOosh - 4/20 posts 24. Malongo - 3/20 posts, 1 was just a song
Hey not bad in terms of activity. Soft prodding layabout, wiggles, oats, sloosh and malongo. Obviously post count isn't everyting since there's PMs, hence soft prodding.
[[This is a for convenience post (like Malongo's), and more of a hey I wanna hear more from people so I have something to analyze when I come back later.]]
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Sloosh
- Can you post your logs with SnB? - Can you post your reads? Give as much reasoning as possible, but given how afk you'd been I don't expect Vivax style posts.
I feel comfortable lynching Sloosh if he doesn't respond.
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On July 21 2013 08:36 kholly wrote: The point I'm making is that those are brilliant questions to ask but that last statement allows Sloosh to live by not responding. You need to be more threatening. If he doesn't post the PMs, he is dead!
I said I'm comfortable lynching him if he doesn't respond. Not sure how that let's him live by not responding. Also I'm not the threatening type. Feel free to take my words and do the "threatening" part.
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Don't think there's enough people to lynch anyone other than sloosh at this moment so *twiddles thumbs.*
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On July 21 2013 15:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: No one is going to kill me. I was out of town today and it was on short notice. I'll catch up with this thread by the end of Night 2. Sorry everyone. If you consider that, you're dumb.
Welcome back, was just worried you committed seppuku because of FirmTofu. At least now you'll have a reasonable about of posts.
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When did everything turn into such a clusterfuck? >_<
I honestly don't know what to say. The only thing I have so far is that we should not forget about SnB. Whether Sloosh turns up scum or town, pretty sure SnB was next in the spot light for the vigi shot.
I'm surprised at how little attention everyone's paid to the vigi shot. If it takes 2 days to lynch Sloosh, that's plenty of time for SnB to disappear off everyone's radars and for new targets like Marv and Wiggles. Yeah only Vivax has really suspected them, but there's a lot of support Vivax chatter (ex. kholly) even though kholly's not even mason'd with Vivax. Also just because of the length of what Vivax posted someone is bound to get tunneled in on it or something and next thing we know we've all forgotten about SnB (and maybe he makes some posts to redeem himself).
Oh also, please please please let's not talk about Sloosh's lynch tomorrow unless something weird happens. If all you have to say is sloosh got pardoned he must be mafia make like a 1-liner about it in your post and vote for him. Unless someone claims the pardon, or does something, or whatever, then there's no reason for us to discuss it and waste posts/town bandwidth on it.
TL;DR - Don't forget what we were doing and don't be sidetracked.
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OH NO IM SORRY I TOOK A NAP AND THEN I DONE GOOFED THE SECOND DAY IN A ROW. T____T
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@DrH and anyone else:
Review the Sloosh case if you'd like, but basically he got pardoned and I don't see any reason to save him. Rayn claimed pardoner and said he didn't save Sloosh (and if rayn lied and wants Sloosh alive, then they're both scum). So whoever saved Sloosh is scum pardoner, unless someone's going to claim saving Sloosh for whatever god awful reason.
Unless you see a reason not to lynch Sloosh today, please don't waste time on the matter and vote for him, and continue mafia hunting others.
I personally need a while to go through everything... seems like a whole clusterfuck. Also haven't had a chance to talk to my masons much due to time zones so I'd like to do that as well.
(voting for sloosh in voting thread)
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SnB and Sloosh
You guys /STILL/ haven't posted your chat logs with each other. So uh, you're both scum until at least one of you produces the evidence.
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On July 24 2013 09:12 kholly wrote: what if one is blue and the other is green. Why are people ignoring this fact. They even talk about a sk but no the possibility of a blue. But then again... VE was green yet possess a blue role... while ace was blue with a blue role.... The Silencer is not alone in contradictions.. The possibility of multiple cops seems likely due to the following constraints:
Uh, can you please make some sense? Are you saying you or someone you know checked VE or Ace or what? Also what does what you say below have to do with the possibility of multiple cops and you didn't list cops in either list...
On July 24 2013 09:12 kholly wrote: mafia pros
suppose mafia has pardoner, Silencer and dayvig mafia has KP of 2 (the sK is a lie, yes it is uncapitalized! Cause I'm a חבל - chebel [aka I used no encryption here. I no breaks rules even though I claim to be a chebel]). plurality lynching
town roles
pardoner (pretty useless, no info if used and allows mafia 2 more night kills) jailkeeper bodyguard (kind of uselesss, replace town with other town or replace scum with town.. yeah guarantee lost of town life) dayvig - one shot nightvig - one shot
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On July 24 2013 14:30 kholly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 13:58 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: DoctorHelvetica the Townie has been modkilled.
He ragequit in game and confirmed through PM. Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 06:34 kholly wrote:
DoctorHelvetica VayneAuthority
Hapahauli Marvy
gumshoe Medic on VayneAuthority this time.
holly can you make some sense? T___T You claim they're all red and now you're saying medic should protect Vayne??
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So it looks like we're probably down to between SnB, Marv, and MZ tomorrow.
ASSUMING cop claim is accurate, then there is a 50%+ chance for Marv or MZ to be anti-town. That means that if we lynch Marv or MZ we have a baseline 50% chance to be right. On top of that, take whatever read you have on Marv or MZ, and that's a really solid lynch.
SnB on the other hand, I think town pretty much agrees looks really scummy, and we'll lynch him later, but I think we really need to prioritize Marv/MZ.
1) If there is an SK in the game, killing marv/mz reduces night KP by 1 2) If there isn't an SK in the game, killing scum marv/mz/snb has the same effect (it either reduces KP or it doesn't, but if marv and snb were both scum, it's pretty equivalent)
Now, if we assume that marv/sloosh convo and the mz/marv cop check are related, then there's a way higher chance that the cop claim is accurate and town as well as Marv/MZ being SK. If you think they're related that pretty much clears the cop check.
Also if you think the cop check is legit, then 1 of Marv/MZ is GUARANTEED to be anti-town. Whereas SnB is just a strong town scum read.
So lynching Marv/MZ is much more of a guarantee than SnB.
TL;DR - If you are approximately equally sure between SnB and Marv/MZ, you should vote for Marv/MZ.
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I wrote this up before seeing Wiggles post. I'd just like to emphasize that if the MZ/Marv cop claim is related to the Marv/Sloosh convo then I think the cop claim is definitely more legit looking. Either way obviously what happens tonight should tell us quite a bit.
ALSO - Does anyone else finds it weird that MZ and Marv don't really question the legitimacy of the cop? MZ says lynch him and Marv, no mention of well what if the cop is fake and we're both innocent. Marv just screams LOOK AT MY TOWN CRED EVERYONE. Hmm...
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On July 25 2013 05:19 marvellosity wrote: I think you guys have way too much respect for the amount of effort I'd put into masoning/logs if I weren't town :/
Me and yamato faked our logs, I faked logs with slOosh, and I made infinite-logs with Vivax for shits and giggles? Really? :/
If you were SK that would still make sense.
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On July 25 2013 05:27 marvellosity wrote: I guess I best start shooting town then!
... Why are you acting like this Marv? >_< I'm just saying it doesn't clear you. It's the same thing as Rayn, where you two run around being all OMG LOOK AT MY TOWN CRED. I'm just saying, the actions also make sense for an SK.
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On July 25 2013 05:38 marvellosity wrote: I don't have cred, it's just dumb to think I'm not town, that's all. So who do I shoot? I'll let you decide Korynne, you seem like a nice fellow. I'm thinking rayn, I know he loves being shot.
Pewpewpew, pewpew! *kaboom*
Can't tell if you're serious... I mean I would tell you to shoot SnB because I think we all agree he looks scummy.
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On July 25 2013 05:55 marvellosity wrote: Deadly, deadly serious. Don't wanna shoot s&b though, he played in my first newbie with me. Such a qt patootie.
What kind of excuse is that? Wanna shoot MZ then to clear you two up? Or you just gunna make up some new excuse? How about you just give me a list of people you won't kill so we don't have to waste posts going back and forth.
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Here's relevant parts of layabout's dying words. I'm not posting our entire logs in the thread for certain reasons but if you want to see them you can mason me (ask me in thread first if you look scummy I'm not sending them to you if you mason me).
Also I will be sending the whole thing to one of my masons to verify that they've read the whole thing and I'm not hiding anything to implicate me.
Basically cop confirmed, one of MZ/Marv is scum, MZ looks suspect right now based on voting Day 1.
Oh also I told layabout to ask RoL if scum and SK read as different alignment, but he did not get an answer back before he died. So, we don't know basically.
+ Show Spoiler +[9:52:10 PM] Marc Quinn: but i cant remmeber why we started [9:52:27 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: RIGHT NOW VisceraEyes - 7 Oatsmaster slOosh yamato77 Ace strongandbig layabout kholly [9:52:36 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: RIGHT NOW Sloosh - 5 raynpelikoneet VayneAuthority HiroPro kushm4sta VisceraEyes [9:52:40 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: Meapak_ziphh - 1 Mr. Wiggles [9:52:42 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: CHANGES: [9:52:59 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: FT -> sloosh, FT not on that list, so +1 SLOOSH [9:53:13 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: layabout VE -> MZ, -1 VE, +1 MZ [9:53:26 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: Malongo -> MZ, not on that list, so +1 MZ [9:53:38 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: kholly : -1 VE, +1 MZ [9:53:47 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: gumshoe +1 MZ [9:53:58 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: so before kholly and VE at the last second [9:54:01 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: we have [9:54:19 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: VE 5, SLOOSH 6, MZ 5 [9:54:35 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: kholly does something nonsensical [9:54:46 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: and VE was switching from sloosh to MZ, which makes perfect sense [9:54:59 PM] Marc Quinn: but kholly doesn't kill VE [9:55:10 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: so the thing is [9:55:15 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: kholly, 3 min before lynch [9:55:17 PM] Marc Quinn: and VE's switch got him killed instead of sloosh [9:55:19 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: did something COMPLETELY USELESS TECHNICALLY [9:55:32 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: he thought he was switching from 5, 6, 5 to 6, 6, 4 [9:55:36 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: and like you said, sloosh got there first [9:55:44 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: so kholly would be doing something absolutely useless [9:56:01 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: and the VE thought he was going 5 6 5 to 5 5 6, and he prefered MZ over sloosh, whatever. [9:56:09 PM] Marc Quinn: so what i am saying [9:56:28 PM] Marc Quinn: 1 no mafia on sloosh wagon [9:56:37 PM] Marc Quinn: 2 no mafia on mz wagon [9:57:18 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: why? [9:57:21 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: mz wagon was good at the end [9:57:42 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: wiggles was super early though [9:57:44 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: so prob not wiggles [9:57:52 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: wiggles voted for MZ when noone else did [9:57:54 PM] Marc Quinn: because we can say that mafia did not cause VE to get lynched [9:57:56 PM] Marc Quinn: VE did [9:58:07 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: wtf was kholly doing [9:58:09 PM] Marc Quinn: but mafia could very easily have gotten MZ lynched [9:58:18 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: sow hy didnt they [9:58:25 PM] Marc Quinn: ignore kholly for now [9:58:34 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: kk [9:59:15 PM] Marc Quinn: but mafia did not get mz lynched even though if mz is town he is a safer mislynch for them to be on [9:59:32 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: mz is scum> [9:59:36 PM] Marc Quinn: yes [9:59:46 PM] Marc Quinn: which also fits with other things: [10:00:03 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: who were your suspects? (sorry scrolling is hard ) [10:00:14 PM] Marc Quinn: all the logs involving marv are genuine if mz is scum but faked if mz is town [10:00:35 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: also did you ask about whether scum/sk is same alignment in cop check?? [10:00:41 PM] XinChi (Kory Bear) Yang: cuz im mad at you if you didnt [10:00:41 PM] Marc Quinn: mz snb adam and oatsmaster [10:00:55 PM] Marc Quinn: no answer yet but i dont think there is an sk
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On July 25 2013 16:47 kushm4sta wrote: Oatmaster Korynne Koshi Rayntardation
These were the only people who knew about layabout. At least one of them has to be mafia. Furthermore, there are very good reasons to have townreads on 2/4 of them. Koshi - scum tried to get koshi killed Rayn - claimed pardoner, also literally the towniest acting person in the thread
Therefore between Oats and Korynne there is at least one scum. So which do you want to lynch first?
Ok first of all. If there is no SK, which I think most of us agree on or at least is very likely, Koshi is not proven town at all. Mafia knows whether there is an SK, they know how much KP they have and who they're trying to kill at night. If they have all the KP, they know they can talk to Marv or MZ and tell them to kill someone without that person being under actual threat of dying. If anything, it makes any town medics want to protect them.
I don't think Koshi looks scummy at all, and I would never lynch him over Rayn or Oats, but I'm just saying, let's not make too many assumptions.
I think we need to lynch MZ or Marv, they both look really suspicious and with layabout dead it means at least one of them is anti-town. I'm personally leaning towards MZ for scum. I'm not completely ruling out Marv for SK, but layabout never got back to me on whether scum and SK look different to a parity cop because he died. =\
Also, we never really considered, layabout may not have been due to one of us (rayn/koshi/oats/me) being a rat. There's 4/13 mafia, they're not going to kill ~Marv/MZ/SnB so that's 7 or 8 people to choose from.
Also if there was an SK like some people said they might've aimed for scum. But what if that was layabout, and not kholly? What if mafia thought kholly could've been the cop or a blue role from all the shenanigans he's been up to. Also it looks like 1 inactive-ish player has been killed each night: Hiro then Malongo. Someone with KP is looking to kill inactives, and layabout was completely inactive in the thread.
We don't know completely for sure there is a rat. We don't completely know for sure SnB is mafia (though he looks very scummy). We DO know for sure that one of Marv or MZ is anti-town. Sooo... that's pretty straightforward.
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On July 25 2013 18:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok guys, 1 job. Read MZ's and Marv's filter. Vote for the scummiest one.
Thats an interesting theory Korynne.
Rayn has also stopped talking to me, less than 1 pm a day so its not like Im not responding to him and I dont understand how his read on me changed.
He's sad because you don't talk to him Oats. He misses you greatly.
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On July 25 2013 21:39 Koshi wrote: Could it be that Vivax was so right about his targets and marv so wrong? I think that this is unlikely. That is why I still want SnB to be lynched today. We need to follow Vivax guys, he is still town MVP and he has been death after night 1...
So I suggest we lynch SnB, a guy who we ALL suspect for being scum. I am going to keep following Vivax, I want you all to keep doing that.
My opinion on MZ/marv as a lynch target for today: MZ should never get lynched today. The only thing we have against him is a message from a flipped scum player, that claims that one of MZ/marv is "different". That's nothing really. We do not have a better chance on finding scum in MZ than SnB. marv is still a big red target for me, but I want to go SnB first to keep on track with what Vivax told me. If SnB turns red, then we all have to remember what Vivax told us about the hesitance of marv to go after SnB.
I don't understand what you and Rayn are up to. I agree that SnB looks scummy! But you seem to have read the conversation wrong. We have a message from a flipped TOWN COP that Marv/MZ is different (the flipped scum just called Marv an SK). THAT IS TOTALLY 100% GUARANTEED UNLESS TOWN COP IS TROLLING US.
You can't just stick to Vivax. He's dead. New things have happened. Everyone needs to adapt to new information. Yes SnB looks scummy but one of Marv/MZ is confirmed anti-town. AND if one of them is the SK that reduces night KP by 1!!!
Pros of killing Marv/MZ: - One of them is CONFIRMED anti-town, you guys know what confirmed means right? >_< - The anti-town member could have a scum role, or be an SK (SnB is vanilla scum at best after the shot at Ace)
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Yeah the way people play mafia the simplest explanation is usually true. Layabout first claimed he spoke to the cop but turns out he is the cop. VE and FT both were the roles they claimed.
What are the chances, out of this many people, that the framer got the right guy? Layabout claimed to me after he did his first two checks I don't think anybody even knew there was a parity cop.
It's like, at least 10x more likely that we have an SK (because of what Sloosh did) than having a framer AND the framer getting the right target.
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MZ. Look at first day voting.
Scum on the VE train to get away from Sloosh, why didn't they swap over to MZ after the claim? SnB included. He was like, I see your claim and fuck you. Lynching MZ was way more credible but doesnt seem like they went for it. This was what me and layabout talked about, in his dying moments.
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On July 26 2013 13:52 Oatsmaster wrote: I would really like more posts, but I AM THE COP(parity cop).
So I checked FT day 1 and marv day 3 and no one day 2 cause Im bad at mafia.
If you say im fakeclaiming, well, guess what? You scumclaimed bro.
Wow, I don't even want to start on how terrible it is to miss a check especially since it's parity... xD
If you are parity cop, ask RoL whether scum and SK turn up the same. I asked after layabout died and he said I wasn't privy to that information. That's the only thing I have in terms of trying to prove that you're a cop.
Also you checked Marv, then there's like a 90% chance of MZ being scum/SK. And you still want to lynch SnB because?
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On July 26 2013 14:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I agree with marv now that MZ is probably town cause of his cockiness.
town/3p/scum are different alignments.
?? You said Marv and FT were the same alignment? So MZ is also town and layabout is a flat out liar????
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You trust your read more than a cop claim. You trust that there's a framer and somehow they managed to frame the right person? Wow, you're crazy.
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On July 26 2013 14:28 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2013 14:26 Korynne wrote: You trust your read more than a cop claim. You trust that there's a framer and somehow they managed to frame the right person? Wow, you're crazy. Well yes I trust my read more than blue roles because blue's are known to not always be accurate. Also marv or MZ were probably checks and therefore frame targets.
Yeah if there even is a framer. I'm sorry, give that like Wiggles said we're at MYLO I'm not willing to lynch based on your hunch.
You think both Marv AND MZ look clean?
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I never claimed SnB was town (I think he looks scummy). I just think given the evidence, it's much more likely that MZ or Marv is mafia or SK. People are ridiculously wrong about their reads all the time, I trust the blue evidence more unless you want to write a Vivax on SnB, Marv and MZ.
I don't know if Wiggles is town or scum, I've got way better evidence against marv and MZ right now. I'm not going to waste my time trying to decide on whether Wiggles is scum.
Did you not read what me and layabout talked about re:first day lynch and why people didn't just switch from VE to MZ?
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On July 26 2013 16:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Are we honestly not voting for either me or marv? Marv is confirmed scum for me and either of us should be confirmed scum for everyone else.
Yeah, apparently town is dumb enough to be like, look at me, all high and mighty, my read is so good we're going to value that above the detective claims.
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Ok so what are the win conditions for the SK?
So, let's just assume SnB is scum, for argument's sake. We have 3 scenarios.
A) Marv/MZ are both innocent B) Marv/MZ one is scum C) Marv/MZ one is SK
A) Obviously lynch SnB, deal with marv/mz tomorrow. If there's 2 KP at night we're at 3/8 tomorrow, if 1 KP probably no SK (good info to have) and 3/9 tomorrow we're better off.
B) Lynch SnB, deal with Marv/MZ tomorrow (if Oats is actually cop, then we can have a better guess at it). Same numbers as A, we're either at 3/8 or 3/9 tomorrow.
C) If we lynch SnB we're at 3/8 tomorrow BUT there is an SK so it's 1 SK, 3 mafia and 4 towns. If we lynch the SK correctly we're at 4/10, 4/9 -> 4/9 tomorrow but we get SnB, so that's 3/8->3/7->hopefully figure shit out it's basically LYLO. If we lynch the SK incorrectly it's 4/10, 4/8 tomorrow GG. If we lynch SnB we're at 3/10 -> 3/8 tomorrow
If for some freak reason SnB isn't mafia, then 4/10 -> 4/8 GG unless SK kills mafia at night which is then 3/8 tomorrow but again, it's 1 SK, 3 mafia, 4 towns.
Does anyone know what the deal is when there's 1 SK, 3 mafia and 4 towns?
Because if we're safe in that situation, then SnB makes a better lynch. My concern was that I thought we autolose if there's an SK but if 1 SK, 3 mafia and 4 town is still okay then lynching SnB makes way more sense.
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On July 27 2013 04:16 marvellosity wrote: Honestly the only thing I remember of Korynne is him tunnelling rayn really weirdly. Since then I put him down as an earnest newbie town and haven't paid attention to his posts so much.
Not sure what tunneling specifically meant. But I subbed in D2 and Rayn was weird to me, so I explored that whole thing. I'm not sure how I feel about Rayn even to this day. T___T
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Will someone plz answer me?
What happens if 1 SK, 3 mafia, 4 town tomorrow?
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On July 27 2013 09:22 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 06:14 Korynne wrote: Will someone plz answer me?
What happens if 1 SK, 3 mafia, 4 town tomorrow? really odd question for town to be asking. Although it makes perfect sense for mafia to ask.
Yeah if you read my other post you'd see why I'm asking.
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On July 28 2013 05:27 Koshi wrote: Kyronne (He could be replaced by rayn, but I am going for kyronne here, if Kyronne flips town, rayn is probably scum and MZ is scum as well because kyronne came up with the bussing of VE day 1 because both SloOsh and MZ are scum)
You wanna think I'm scum whatever, I'm sick of telling you every 2 minutes stop saying I DONT CARE and just letting me express my opinion. Nobody has read our logs or my logs with layabout and called me scum, you're the only one doing it. Then again nobody seems to care enough about this game to have read those logs period probably. -.-
Also I'm not into your logic. I made a compelling argument about VE/Sloosh/MZ day 1. Either you agree with it or you don't. I'm not willing to get lynched so you can finally go back and actually read my logs with you and take me seriously once you get your head out of your cloud of omg I have a perfect theory.
Yeah it's nice I get that you're happy you came up with a theory and it fits so good and ya dee ya. I don't believe you're scum, but don't just get all IM NOT LISTENING to anyone because you're so happy with your theory.
Btw mostly afk for the weekend since my bf is over.
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On July 28 2013 11:16 kushm4sta wrote: Gay or girl?
LOLOLOL. Girl.
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I hope it's not my fault.
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layabout screwed me SO HARD. I thought we found the SK.
My plan was to push Marv/MZ, get one of them lynched, and pardon them. And then hope town goes for a tunnel vision like they did for Sloosh. And then enough night kills would've happened by then.
And then push all suspicion onto Rayn because THERE IS NO WAY THERE ARE THREE PARDONERS and Rayn claimed pardoner and would claim not pardoning Marv/MZ/Sloosh. So like... bah. My plan was so guud.
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We also talked on Skype. So a lot of it is missing and mostly is Kush being like wtf guys. xD
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