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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
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On May 31 2013 03:07 Promethelax wrote: /out. really sorry. So much rage. | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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So... /in ^^ | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 04 2013 11:45 VayneAuthority wrote: Guess you'll just have to find out. Meta can suck it. This isn't a normal setup anyway so I don't see why it matters. Of course I am gong to be playing way differently What aspect of this game makes you feel like you'll naturally be playing way differently? | ||
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mkfuba07
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And my quote wasn't something random. I found it strange that vayne thinks this game naturally leads to different playstyles than normal, when I find it (particularly at this point) to be quite straightforward. Sure, our roles will change in the future, but we're still always going to be town vs scum. To me, it looked like he was giving vague excuses for possible future changes in playstyle, when from my own perspective there shouldn't be all that much difference. I don't know what to make of his response, yet. Telling me "not to worry about it" has made me do just the opposite, though. He seems to be saying that once we have some claims on the board, we're going to mostly focus on those and put reading the thread as a whole second. Again, this conflicts with my perspective. If our roles are going to keep changing, it seems like looking at the big picture will be what catches us scum, since they're always scum, but they're not always doctor/roleblocker/whatever they randomed. In fact, I'd argue that claims will be even less relevant in scumhunting because of this. In any case, I haven't seen anything I would specifically call scummy so far, just conflicting with my perspective or kind of unusual (I found his response to prplhz's "Why 31?" question really thorough for something that seemed like an offhand comment from both of them). For now I have him down as a person of interest. | ||
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mkfuba07
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And my point regarding vayne is simply that his perspective on the game is different than my own. His comment really stuck out to me, because I saw no reason to change my playstyle based on this setup. I have yet to decide if that's simply because he's a different player, or if it's because he's playing for a different team. If you're looking for me to call someone scum D1, it's unlikely going to happen. @jaybrundage: If you see me as possibly scum for what I've said, what do you think about vayne himself? His contributions consist of: a very thorough response to a nonsense question, saying he doesn't like meta, pointing out that I questioned him, and then saying I'm on his radar. I actually see little to distinguish his play from mine aside from post count. "I like to to call that illusionary participation unless thats common for him or something" | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 05 2013 13:12 Stutters695 wrote: And Fuba just sniped me. Fuba if you had to dictate a lynch today who and why? Give us something to work with. Sorry, passed out soon after my post. There's been lots of unexpected stuff popping up, distracting me from the game. The most concerning one is taken care of, so I'll be less distracted. In any case, it's unlikely I could have given you an answer. As I said, D1 I typically sheep someone I feel pretty strongly is town, on someone that person has convinced me is scum. I don't really dictate lynches D1. The only time I've actually "dictated" a lynch was at the end of Doctor Who mafia, which surprised even me in its insistence upon my lynch, as well as the fact that I was actually right XD If you'd insisted on an answer, I probably would have said vayne, since he's the one that's been on my mind the most, and I saw him as having the most potential to be scum, despite not having done anything I would call overtly scummy. While he's still on my mind, I have a different lynch target at the moment. SlOosh brought up a good point about rayn that makes me comfortable with a vote on him. His reasoning for having a town read on vayne is pretty scummy. Thinking someone's town because they accurately describe your playstyle doesn't show the level of suspicion that I'd expect from a townie. I mean, it's easier than trying to make a fake case against someone you know is innocent. It's up there with talking exclusively about setup speculation and asking the host questions to appear active. ##Vote: raynpelikoneet I previously found sentinel town (no specific reason, just general feelings after reading his posts), but I'm going to take a closer look at him since slOosh brought him up. Also, we're falling on different sides of the oats debate, which is interesting because we both just played in a scum oats game. I can believe that town oats believes Ace to be a legit lynch, since I have *kind of* the same feelings. Problem being, I don't like playing hypocritically, and if I vote Ace for activity (whether or not I expected more from him), then I might as well vote myself (though that would be playing against my wincon  ). I haven't seen anything that would pick out Ace as scummier than anyone else in the game, so I'm not voting for him today. | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On June 06 2013 01:22 Vivax wrote: Can you word the reasons you have for thinking Vayne could be scum? There were a few things that made me kind of suspicious of him in the first place, and I've spent the most time kind of pondering over him. It might be a bit tunnel-y of me. In any case, I found it strange that he pointed out my one question of him, followed by me disappearing for a while, but not bringing up prplhz's "Why 31?". I felt mine, at least, had legitimate reason to be asked, while prplhz's was clearly (in my eyes) just for the reaction or to be random or some shit. I also found his thorough answer to prplhz's question potentially suspicious (which I suppose makes it suspicious...) because it *was* so thorough, when the question was pretty much nonsense. That being said, if everything he said in that answer was true, it would have been easy for vayne to recall in any case. This rendered it pretty much null. Then there's his response to my question, itself, which just seemed to come from a different mindset than my own. As I said before, I'm unsure of whether or not it makes him scummy or just, you know, a different kind of player than me, so that's kind of where the suspicion ended on that train of thought. Again, ended pretty null (at least for the moment). Then there's just his general attitude, I guess you could call it. He pretty much states outright that he's not gonna do much D1. And then later points out how I'm not doing much, and though he hasn't voted yet, certainly seems geared up to vote for me by the end of the day (though maybe not, since the wagon didn't take off?). In any case, it's the kind of hypocritical "voting" that I just don't like doing as town. I see it as "he's doing what I'm doing, so he's scum". That being said, I can see townies voting in such a way. Some people might just not have my sense of voting "honor". Anyway, I haven't been able to convince myself that he's probably scum, so I haven't voted him. I basically see a lot of thing that *could* be scummy, but have an equal chance of being town. It's the quantity of them that keeps me suspicious, as well as the fact that he hasn't really done anything to convince me he's town. | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On June 06 2013 03:49 Stutters695 wrote: + Show Spoiler + girlfriend was naked and rolling around on the floor. Friend was naked because he had pissed himself on my rug while his boyfriend ran and jumped into the pond to go swimming. Other friend shit himself and the fourth guy threw a beer into my neighbors face who laughed it off. My trip was really uneventful by comparison, but goddamn. shrooms, not even once On topic Rayn seems like a good lynch. Is it weird that this kind of makes me want to try shrooms *more*? | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On June 06 2013 04:03 jaybrundage wrote: -snip- Note the reason he gives is because rayn has a town read on Vayne. So instead of lynching vayne who he has been playing with for a while. He just jumps on rayn because he is starting to roll as a wagon. He includes some reason as rayn seeing vayne as a town read for a wierd reason. If rayn just said he had a gut read on Vayne would that be better? Its a convoluted reason imo. I dont see the real reason for the switch from vayne to rayn. -snip- That's not the reason I gave. Town reads on vayne are perfectly fine. I, myself, just gave a slight town read on him. The reason I gave for rayn being scum is that his town read on vayne is based entirely around vayne doing something that anyone, of any alignment, could do. It's something scum can do easily to make themselves look like town, while not actually contributing their own thoughts. It's something that I wouldn't expect a townie to be convinced by, but something that scum would be enticed by. I didn't just jump on rayn because his wagon started. I wasn't convinced by the other cases. I was convinced by this one. If you don't like my reasoning, you're free to disagree with it. As for the bolded, in all honesty it probably would be better. At least in the sense that I would not find it as scummy. I find "no definable reason" to be better than a scummy reason (at least until we see some flips). And finally, there was no "switch" from vayne to rayn. You make it seem like one led to the other, when they're completely independent. If rayn had given that reason as a town read for *anyone* I would have had the same reaction. Here's a question for you: Do you think that someone explaining your playstyle is indicative of their alignment? | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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Huh, jay being doctor doesn't fit with my current thoughts on the game. S'ok though, I was probably slipping into omgus territory. @Jay: Why vivax? | ||
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mkfuba07
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I'm gonna look at Ace and Sent, but I'm gonna have to look through their filters instead of just reading what people say about them before I really give any input. As for vayne, the most suspicious thing for me at the moment is his change in attitude from D1 to D2. He had (what I consider) a very townie nonchalance before, but his recent posts have adopted a "woe is me" tone. I seem to remember hearing that vayne was a pretty good player, and I don't see good players getting this defeatist attitude just because they were wrong. Unless, that is, being wrong isn't the only thing to be upset about. There's also the point that I believe oats brought up - that rayn was *probably* buddying up to a townie, as opposed to a scumbuddy. Pedit: Ace the cop? | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On June 07 2013 10:00 jaybrundage wrote: Hmm So Ace claimed cop and Oats came up red. My first reaction is to call bullshit. I mean if mafia got cop then they could bullshit a check at night. If Oats comes up green if we lynch him ace could just fall back on the miller possibility. But on the other had if ace is green then we should by all means go for it. I just have trouble seeing ace as green. The worse case scenario being that Ace is town and checks Oats who is town and miller. That would kinda suck. At the end of the day it depends on who is most likely mafia from whats going on from the thread. Between Oats and Ace i wanna say ace from his last minute vote derail Not sure it's fair to say ace is scummier for trying to derail the lynch, when oats was doing the same thing. The only difference is that oats was in position to do it before the wagon started going, while ace got apprehensive and pulled out. It's not like oats stopped trying to push ace when rayn was set to be lynched. | ||
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mkfuba07
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One problem I have with the reasoning in a) is that I don't feel like any scum is ever all too afraid of bussing oats right from the start. He's a hard read D1, and is also (I feel) oftentimes an unlikely lynch D1 because of that very fact. I'd have to take a closer look at how sent was pushing oats, but if it's just "his case on ace is ridic" then it's nothing that I'm sure most of the people here weren't thinking before sent said it himself. Because of this, I don't think scum oats excludes scum sent. As glad as I am that there's a lot of discussion going on (I have excuses for not participating up to this point, but I'll leave them out unless someone really wants to hear them), I don't see myself voting for someone other than ace or oats today. The likelihood of these two players being town and getting the exact roles that would put us in this situation given their previous interaction is negligible, imo. Therefore, at least one of them is scum. Oats seems most likely to me, given that it would be silly for ace to fakeclaim and expect "guess he was miller" to get him off the hook. I agree that if ace did fakeclaim, it's more significant than a 1-for-1 trade, but it's still a pretty big swap. ##Vote: Oatsmaster I've been asleep for a pretty long while, and I'm gonna go get food now. I also might have plans in a few hours, so I'll disappear again for a bit. Please tell me if there's anything in particular you want me to think about/look at/consider, since my time will be mostly focusing on oats/ace. In addition to being the most likely place to find scum, I feel that will give us the most to go off of going into D3. | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On June 09 2013 08:14 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Oh wait he got lynched... lol | ||
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mkfuba07
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In any case, I'll be spending the next few hours (possibly all hours up to the lynch) getting better acquainted with the thread. | ||
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mkfuba07
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##Vote: Ace | ||
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mkfuba07
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Looks like we're waiting for cop to claim. I wasn't anything (afaik). | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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Oh... Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. | ||
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mkfuba07
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##Vote: Vivax | ||
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mkfuba07
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Admittedly, I may just really want myself to be right. That's why I said I was going to reread the thread (probably just certain parts of it, it's kinda long), to make sure it still fits. Gotta get some sleep now, though. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 14 2013 09:40 jaybrundage wrote: Incorrect.Fuba has been laying low just relaxing in the town cred that Ace (a scum mind you) gave him. I can see him being scum his contribution is close to replacement material. My own actions gave me town cred, or you wouldn't have accepted it in the first place. My own actions have also taken some of it away. Ace had nothing to do with my contributions to the rayn lynch other than announcing me as "confirmed town" afterwards, something that I would have honestly assumed was going through most peoples' heads at that point. It's an easy thing to do as scum to not only appear to be giving the game thought, but also to cast shadows on someone in the future. Back to the game, I'm not so sure about vivax anymore. Sentinel remains the most likely to flip scum based on play alone, imo. A vivax and sentinel scumteam makes sense to me going off of night actions, but vivax's play D1 makes me feel less confident about scum vivax, and particularly that pair together. prplhz seems considerably more likely, but I'm only on page 29 at the moment. To explain my thoughts last night: The most recent claims made me really suspicious about vivax, because he certainly appeared reluctant to post his role and the results of his check. Not only how long it took for him to post in the first place, but that neither he nor sentinel had posted in the thread at all at the time. On top of that, his whole "guess who and what" game reeked of fishing for information. My thoughts were that if these two were scum together, then they were trying to decide who should claim the role, who they should claim they checked, and what the results should be. This isn't something scum can do in advance. They need to know who the power roles are so they know who they can fake-check and still be safe. The fact that the end result was a green check on sentinel, the *only* person that scum vivax could trust to not be a power role, compounded these suspicions. Then I considered that vivax was roleblocked one night with a missing NK, and then sentinel was roleblocked the next night with a missing NK, and it spiraled out from there. It also makes sense why vivax would have had one KP N2, and Sentinel would have the KP N3. All of these things fit together so perfectly to me. It still feels instinctively right... But it also somewhat ignores the possibility of WoS or kita being the NK targets during those nights. Naturally, both of them were potential NK targets, or I wouldn't have protected kita last night. But I also feel like with that scumteam, they would go for "sure thing" NKs, not ones that could potentially be protected. Essentially, I feel that it makes more sense to believe that scum was roleblocked (assuming the blocker is trustworthy and the blockee was suspicious) than to trust that the doctor picked the right scum target that night. In any case, I think I'm caught in some light circular logic when it comes to this last paragraph, but it does fit within the scenario I've stated above. All of that being said... based on play alone (as of my reread through page 29, as well as my previous feelings regarding these players), I'd rather lynch sentinel>prplhz>vivax. This, combined with my claim theory, puts sentinel as my preferred lynch today. ##Unvote ##Vote: [UoN]Sentinel | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On June 08 2013 04:28 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: ##unvote ##vote: VayneAuthority This vote makes the most sense for me. Oats might be miller and Ace might be cop. Who knows. But Vayne is definitely scum. This vote makes the most sense for me. Was going through the thread (on page 43 currently) and this caught my eye. The bolded strikes me as really scummy. As town, you're considering multiple scenarios. You're not considering whether Ace is cop because to town Ace was cop. The entire bolded portion is from a scum perspective. He only mentions oats being town and getting miller, and he only considers whether Ace is cop (a possibility that should only be considered by scum, since they can pretty much trade roles around). I am really, really comfortable with my vote where it is. I'm not sure which of vivax or prplhz would flip scum, but sentinel is pretty much confirmed for me. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 15 2013 02:34 Stutters695 wrote: Lynch vivax first. If he flips scum we know his claim is worthless and sent is probably scum. If he's town then we're looking at the odds of him getting gf compared to just scummy town play. It's not "just scummy town play" though. It's multiple instances of what I would consider significant scumslips (much like the one that we pinned rayn for). It's almost every dead townie having a scumread on him, and telling us to lynch him. Sure, they didn't have all of the information we do at the moment, but slOosh (who actually made the first case on rayn imo) was right about rayn (and died the first night), and oats was right about Ace (as well as being suspicious of sent), even though most of the people here thought there wasn't enough to go on. I wouldn't be surprised if zephirdd said something particularly key about the other members of the scumteam which got him killed early. It's the general scumminess the entire game, in addition to what I mentioned above and a slight bump from the fact that I consider roleblocking from a trusted source more likely to be successful than a doc save from a trusted source. Oh, and keep in mind that if we kill scum today, we're both more likely to get power roles (roleblocker, specifically) as well as roleblock the correct person to stop a NK. While I was willing before to go with either vivax or sentinel, this realization as well as my current read through the thread have made me more confident in my sent read, less confident in my vivax read, and more insistent upon which of these we lynch first. Some other slightly off-topic thoughts: + Show Spoiler + Something else I've been pondering is that Ace may have mentioned me as the only one confirmed town so that slOosh or WoS were "guaranteed" unprotected the first night. As I said, slOosh was confirmed town for me, since he brought up a legitimate scumslip on the scum power role. Scum would have been aware of this right when he first mentioned it. Ace certainly was, but he attributed it to me instead of slOosh. He tried to leave WoS out of it, but WoS brought himself back in. WoS as one of the drivers of the rayn wagon and a potential town leader would have been a good NK target, but it wasn't "safe" to shoot him after he asserted his town status. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 15 2013 02:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I considered both, which is why, instead of voting for Ace or Oats depending on who I thought was more scummy, I decided to go with my primary scumread of Vayne. It's not what you did, since I assume you tried to consider all scenarios as either alignment. It's what you actually said. Just like oats pointed out before, you're posting from the perspective of someone who already knew who was going to flip what. Your comment about Ace, that he might be cop, isn't even something that townies were considering. Of course he's cop, he claimed it in a game where fakeclaims would instantly implicate you as scum. It's whether or not he was scum that we were thinking about. What at first appears to be an off the cuff comment about how unsure you are of which of the two should be lynched (as either alignment) actually shows you being concerned with something that no townie was actually concerned about. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 15 2013 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuba I wish you posted more often. That analysis realy strikes a chord with me and tbh I'm pretty sure you removed all doubt from mind as to your alignment. Either that or you're experienced scum? I don't know your history on the forum so I don't really know that. Whatever if you are scum then gg. I realized just now I'm going to have to vote before the end of the day because I won't be around at deadline and my trouble is based on posting alone it doesn't seem to make sense that Vivax is scum. I know it's probably the more correct move to hit Vivax before Sent but lynching based on blue role stuff hasn't done us great thus far this game. I know what I did, and I RBed Sent last night, there was no NK. His posting has been worse than godawful for most of the game. I'm going to take a gamble here. ##Vote: [UoN]Sentinel My first game on TL was a scum game, and it had to be remade before 48 hours had passed. Aside from that, I don't actually have any experience being mafia. Fun fact about that game: I think it's actually the earliest that I've ever made a case on anyone. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 15 2013 03:24 Vivax wrote: Can anyone not voting for stutters give me a quick rundown of reasons why they don't think he's scum? I'm reconsidering him given what's been said about him recently. But I definitely feel more sure of scum sent than anyone else at the moment, so I'm not voting stutters today. I think I may have accidentally eliminated him from my suspects because he claimed veteran when I was expecting (hoping?) scum to claim it and then claim they were shot (due to my "Ace killed off the veteran" theory), but given that the role is still supposedly available, I think I need to reconsider him. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 15 2013 04:05 VayneAuthority wrote: thats because sent is pretty obviously town layabout, try to consolidate on vivax for today and if he's town we should lynch prp unless some crazy happens Sorry if I've forgotten or missed the reasoning, but why is sent obviously town? | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 15 2013 05:04 layabout wrote: as in-being pushed by scum using wifom Wait, what wifom is being used to push sent? | ||
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On June 15 2013 04:57 VayneAuthority wrote: greencheck by vivax and they still want to lynch sentinel over vivax when we can confirm how low the odds are of sent being scum if vivax flips town? it reeks of scum pushing a mislynch and some other people actually falling for it. Flipping sentinel gives us very little info too so scum would love that. A greencheck from vivax is enough for you to consider sentinel confirmed town? | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 15 2013 06:00 VayneAuthority wrote: depending on what vivax flips he almost could be. That is why I want to lynch vivax first. So what are your expectations from this lynch? | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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Well, in an attempt to get discussion moving again, I guess I'll just come out and say it. I've thought it through and I don't see any information that I could give away now that scum don't already know. I was the Veteran last night, and I got hit. The role's been removed. | ||
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mkfuba07
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If you're just confused about what I said in my previous post, I simply meant that scum shot me, so since stutters claimed he was doc but roleblocked, they already know that I was veteran. I figured I'd fill the townies in, since only scum and I had that information, and the rest of town didn't. | ||
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mkfuba07
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I don't know... I feel like we're walking into another mislynch, but I don't know who we should lynch instead. I'd feel better with a Vayne lynch, probably, but that might just be because he's been bothering me all game. I've flip-flopped all over him, and can't come up with a town read unless I interpret his typical nonchalance as a town tell (which I have been until now). I don't like how much faith he seems to be willing to put into the night actions, when I personally feel like it's very difficult to trust anything about them. His willingness to lynch vivax just to get information from night actions, when night actions could have easily been manipulated by scum in some way, is something that I don't really expect from town. Then there's how positive he was of sent being town, when most people were either null/unsure. I really don't like any of it. Is anyone else up for a vayne lynch? I doubt we have enough time/people to switch it, but this lynch feels wrong... ##Vote: VayneAuthority | ||
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On June 18 2013 07:59 VayneAuthority wrote: they are pretty much exactly the same. A scummy person giving a town read on some one that most of the game thinks is scum. Everyone was voting rayn and I gave him a town read everyone was suspicious of vivax/going to vote him and he gave sentinel a town check, some one that the game also thought was pretty scummy. what is the difference The difference is the ACTUAL ALIGNMENT OF THE FLIPPED TOWN READ/CHECK! And also the complete lack of any reasoning whatsoever on your part. Town vivax was cop, he checked his scumread, scumread comes back town, he says in the thread that he's town. There is reason for town vivax to believe it. Exactly as much reason as you would have had to believe the check if we lynched vivax and he flipped town, as a matter of fact. Scum vivax, on the other hand, was giving a town *check* on someone who is likely to be lynched. That *doesn't* make sense. You gave a town *read* on someone for no reason whatsoever. That person ended up flipping and was revealed as the scum power role. You had no reason to give a town read on rayn as town (as shown by the fact that you didn't actually have a reason for your town read). As scum, however, the reason is obvious. That is how the two are different. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 18 2013 08:09 VayneAuthority wrote: At this point I feel like I have to re-adjust my view of the game after vivax finally gets lynched hopefully. I feel like at this point stutters could be town with how jay/mkfuba are slowly but surely re-inserting scumreads on me, as if to to slowplay a future mislynch. They can just come back here and be like "look, im consistent!" ROFL Please please please please PLEASE try to get me mislynched. Oh, and it's very townie of you to say that you're going to keep trying to get vivax lynched, then pointing out two more scumreads who are supposedly working together. Do you not see the error here? | ||
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mkfuba07
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You're wanting to lynch vivax. That's one. Then you're saying that both me and jay are setting you up for a "mislynch". That's three. Either you don't actually believe vivax is scum, or you don't believe that "setting you up for a mislynch" is actually scummy. You can't have both. | ||
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On June 18 2013 10:31 WaveofShadow wrote: Random thought reading through Vayne. I absolutely HATE this post by you, Fuba. It's so apologetic and the fact that you'd post it right before a mislynch on Prp just screams scum. Vayne. Thoughts? Or it's town fuba being overwhelmed by the fact that I feel like I could arbitrarily lynch into most of the players in this game and have an equal chance of hitting scum. I had nothing to add about prplhz, but his responses seemed genuine. I wanted to change the lynch to someone else. I have almost literally NO preference between half of the people playing, but vayne was one that I saw as potentially scummy as well as one that I really wouldn't miss if I was wrong. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On June 18 2013 10:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck my brain. I know I'm like...ALWAYS wrong with my conspiracy theory stuff, but I'm almost certain now scum has withheld a shot at some point. If it was the shot on N3 then it means both Fuba and Kita are likely scum, and would fit with the idea that Ace sacced himself because he had a capable scumteam and the 'confirmed town' status that Ace gave to fuba before he decided to essentially off himself. It is becoming increasingly apparent to me that this is one of those games where the scumteam is blending incredibly well, tryharding like a boss (increasingly common in games I've been in lately), and letting bad townies be bad. In this case 2 scum among Vivax/kita/fuba. And ugh... I absolutely love to fucking repeat myself, but ace had NOTHING to do with my "confirmed town" status. Him saying it doesn't mean that it wasn't true. I really don't see how this is in ANY WAY difficult to understand, because it's really, really simple. Townie does something. EVERYONE knows it likely makes him confirmed town. Scum points it out verbally in the thread. THIS HAS NO EFFECT ON THE ORIGINAL ACTION. | ||
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On June 18 2013 11:51 WaveofShadow wrote: So ignore that then. Ignore anything I've mentioned where it says 'such and such fits.' Does my thinking have any merit? Just to make sure, are you asking about whether or not I think someone highly considered to be town is actually scum? Or are you asking if I think scum withheld kp for a night? I'll respond to it in a post before the daypost, but I want to be sure to answer the right question. | ||
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On June 19 2013 02:33 kitaman27 wrote: Well he could only really check Sent or prpl and get away with it and both would come up town. It's not like a town check on you or Wave would make much sense from his perspective. I suppose he could have hidden the cop, but a green check on a player he had already wrote a case as being town makes him look good. It's not like the green check saved a mislynch -_- I'll summarize my earlier case tonight. Why could he only have given sent or prplhz a town check? He could call anyone that isn't his scumpartner town and be perfectly safe. | ||
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On June 19 2013 03:36 VayneAuthority wrote: you seem to be the only other person on the same wavelength as me but rayn flipped scum so i guess that doesn't matter much! the fact that fuba thinks getting a greencheck of sentinel is not scummy when it is pretty much the only option he had besides green check on prp, is pretty puzzling. Check anyone else and people will wonder why, put a red check on either of them and you are dead the next day. A green check on them is actually perfectly normal for either alignment. The way you phrased this bothers me to no end, as you imply that vivax getting a greencheck on sentinel is scummy, and then say that a greencheck is perfectly normal as either alignment. That makes it inherently not scummy. In any case, we'll have to agree to disagree. If I have the cop role for a night, I'm doing what I want with it. I know that without my flip, the only person who will fully (as fully as possible, I should say) believe it is me. If I want to confirm one of my townreads for myself, I will. If I want to make sure that one of my best townreads isn't pulling the wool over our eyes, I will. It's absolutely not unreasonable to believe he could have given a green check to anyone in the game, and that is why I don't see it likely that scum vivax decided to give a towncheck to one of the players most likely to be mislynched. More to come later. | ||
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In response to WoS's question, I think that scumteam (one including 2 of me/kita/vivax) has absolutely 0 merit, but I don't think it's unreasonable for you to have believed it to be viable. I was even worrying about WoS messing with us, but after further consideration of the night actions, I've narrowed the field down considerably. The problem being, I have all of this "guaranteed" information that no one else in the game but scum also has. I'll spell it out the way I see it, and you'll have to either accept it or tell me why I'm scum. First of all, I know that I was shot N4. This means that the veteran role was around this entire time (scum didn't kill it off on their own), and that they wanted me dead for some reason (which I can't really fathom, perhaps trying to limit the "confirmed" pool as much as possible while avoiding the doc?). N3, WoS blocked Sentinel, and I saved kita. We know for a fact that the shot didn't come from sentinel, so my save blocked a KP. It's possible that scum withheld the KP to wifom us, but I don't think it's likely for reasons similar to what kita mentioned. Scum would have basically been relying on the town doc to save one of them or town roleblocker to block town. They'd be giving up a KP for the sake of potential wifom, and that doesn't make sense. The only possibility I could see this being believable is if they killed off the veteran role with the KP, but they didn't, because I got the role the next day. Now onto N2. First of all, scum had veteran N2. We all know this to be fact. If they withheld the KP, then they could have easily used it to burn the veteran role. They didn't burn the vet, so I HIGHLY doubt that they withheld KP (this additionally factors into my thoughts concerning held KP on N3). Then, given that I have a town read on Vivax, that confirms WoS and Vayne for me. The remaining players are Stutters, jaybrundage, and layabout. I don't think it's Stutters, his reaction to rayn calling his case shit was really geniune from my pov. He thought it was completely ridiculous, and I think scum would have behaved more levelheadedly if they were interacting like this. I don't think that scum stutters sees scum rayn say something like that and responds the way he did. This leaves jaybrundage and layabout as the final scum. Looking through their filters, it fits. Read N2, and see Ace and layabout trying to convince the town to give jay the OK to cop check Ace that night. Notice that they're on opposite sides of the argument on almost every issue (even when voting, they're on different people at the end of every night with the exception of sentinel). Watch layabout adamantly insist that the only way to be sure we're avoiding another mislynch is to cop check Ace, then turns around and tells Ace that there was strong scum motivation to what he did (WoS points this out at the time, but I didn't pick up on it). See how jay has a scumread on layabout when the lynches are set, but is freed of the responsibility of pushing that lynch after he gets a greencheck on him. I'm sure there's a better method of writing a case for this, but I don't really have the time at the moment, and ultimately it only really clicked after I went back again and reread the game, so I suggest everyone do that (particularly D2/N2/D3). In any case, like Vayne I'd advocate for a check on jay (or layabout), as well as a block on either of those. Do what you want, though. They're your power roles, and I'm pretty much pushing for these two regardless of cop checks (roleblock would probably dissuade me, depending on the roleblocker). However, and this may be strange, I would not recommend saving me as doc tonight. Either I'm here in the morning and you have me and my scumreads, or you don't have me but you have confirmation that I've been telling the truth about everything (along with my scumreads). Ugh, gotta go. Probably left something out, but that's the gist of it. | ||
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mkfuba07
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I roleblocked layabout. | ||
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On June 20 2013 02:41 VayneAuthority wrote: so right now im looking at vivax and stutters pretty much on one hand we have a player that usually puts in a lot of work that has been sort of middle of the line this entire game. A lot of suspicious night action correlations and the fact that he's still alive at this point in the game all ring alarm bells. He would also confirm me as town if he by some chance showed up town so that's an added bonus. I have no real case on him besides that but feel he is a good lynch overall. On the other hand we have a player that started out posting like crazy which is odd for him, and he's gone on the weekends fair enough but he's also been gone on weekdays. The only time he has popped in the thread recently is to post one liner questions asking what he is doing wrong in a defensive manner as if trying to find out how he can look more town/correct his play in future games or something. His filter is also off putting at best, his vote on rayn is very last second and without much thought put into it, he has a few strange interactions with Ace and most of his early scumreads/people bothering him are either still alive or have been already mislynched. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on these two lynches. If vivax flips town, who do you think is scum? | ||
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On June 20 2013 03:29 jaybrundage wrote: I'm curious what do you think about WoS assertion. He was talking about scum faking losing a KP and that some of our blue actions maybe be faked for town cred. His assertion was that we should start looking into more "confirmed town" by blue role town. So that scum can get away scot free. It would also make sense given how ace would feel fine dying if scum were in a great place. Tho not entirely sure why he made the trade regardless. The difficulty for me when it came to that question was that the only people I considered "confirmed town" were myself, kita, and to some extent WoS (though I certainly had a constant nagging feeling that he might have played us somehow). So if he was asking me if scum might have been playing us like this, the only implication in my mind is myself (not scum, but that's what scum would say XD) or kita, who would have had to withhold KP on the offchance that the doctor would protect him, in an effort to confirm himself town. Neither of these are correct. My problem is, given the night actions as they are, if we lynch vivax and he's town, then that means that vayne and stutters are most likely scum. That's at odds with my belief that scum didn't withhold kp at night. So the options are vivax is scum, there was a lie/godfather somewhere in you/layabout, or scum withheld kp N2 to make vayne look like confirmed town without then using that held kp to burn the vet role (or possibly some combination of the last two). Oh wow, just realized that if scum used the kp to burn the vet, then anyone who later used it would be implicated as scum (if it became known that they used a KP in this way), and if they didn't use it then they would reveal that Ace shot himself to burn the kp. That would ultimately make it a worthless action, right? Given this, I'd much rather lynch vayne than vivax. His major contributions this game have been confusing logic, misrepresentations of things others have said, and pushing for a Vivax lynch which would supposedly confirm him town if vivax flips town, when I see a town vivax as doing almost the exact opposite. I also just went back to check, and the night after the sentinel lynch, after I kept questioning vayne about him calling sentinel "obviously town" (questions that he decided to stop answering), was the night I got shot. The major thing holding back my voting for him was the belief that vivax was town, and scum wouldn't just not use one of their KP, but this absolutely makes sense to me now. The fact that vayne's been trying to make it seem like I've been setting up a mislynch on him for the last few days was just irritating and overly defensive when I thought he was town. But it's clear now that he was accusing me of that just so he could do the very same thing now. He preempts every possible action that could have been taken against him, because he knows that eventually they'll be coming. He consistently considers more members of a scumteam than are even possible, and now appears to be appealing to the towniness in his definite scumread (stutters) to declare vivax and jay as another definite team. Appealing to the *towniness* of *scum*. Doesn't make sense. Oh, and why did Ace sacrifice himself like this when it made no sense to do so? So it would look absolutely insane to consider that they would give up such a strong scum player for one extra KP, and then just not use it. ##Vote: VayneAuthority | ||
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It's actually a godawful reason, as it's exactly what vayne himself did. He's also implicating jay AND myself, when he already thinks vivax AND stutters are scum. | ||
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On June 20 2013 04:57 VayneAuthority wrote: you realize vivax flipping green means his KP wasn't roleblocked by prphlz and that I did indeed save WoS that day? The fact that you have failed to understand such simple things the entire game is at the least, alarming. I don't know if you are a complete dolt or just scum though. No, vivax flipping green means many things. It means he wasn't scum. It means his cop check is as trusted as can be with a roaming miller/godfather about. It means jay is likely town, and in turn layabout is likely town. It means that the only two scum left at that point are you and stutters. And this is nearly impossible if we assume (like I had been) that scum didn't hold their KP. You're appealing to the simple when it doesn't make sense to be doing so. The simple explanation is next to impossible. You also completely ignored the substance of the case and are focusing entirely on the setup-based possibility of you being scum while ignoring the scummy things that I claim you have done. Then you resort to ad hominem attacks. | ||
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Night two, scum get doc and veteran (possibly cop, who knows). They do not have roleblocker (prplhz). They have two people double stack JDD, and in this way guarantee that exactly one person dies that night regardless of who is roleblocked. This sets up a situation where there's exactly one kp missing, and by lynching vivax vayne becomes confirmed town. So... lynch Vayne. | ||
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On June 20 2013 09:16 VayneAuthority wrote: I don't really need to justify anything, his play is not indicative of town and I wouldn't miss him if he was town. He honestly thinks 1. that JJD was doublestacked or some bullshit 2. just read his latest post, how does he come to the conclusion from that to lynch me? LOL? I came to that conclusion because the only reason I wasn't voting for you was because it didn't make sense for scum to withhold their kp. I think vivax is town. I think you are scummy. The only reason I took you off the list is because I couldn't figure out how the night actions resolved N2 without you being confirmed town. This makes perfect sense, though. It explains the missing KP, it explains why you're so obsessed with getting vivax lynched, it explains why I've found fault with so many of your posts this game. It literally explains every question I had regarding the night actions N2. | ||
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The thing is, it certainly feels to me as though vayne's goal, since at least day 3, was lynching vivax in order to confirm himself. Not lynching scum, but for the information. Given that this is the case, why hasn't sentinel's lynch already confirmed me and kita? It's literally the exact same situation (vivax = sentinel, vayne = me, WoS = kita). Based on that, I should be as confirmed as he expects to be from a vivax lynch, but I'm not. His motivation for lynching vivax isn't even valid in his own eyes. How is this not scummy? | ||
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On June 20 2013 21:32 Vivax wrote: These are vayne's reasons for lynching me: A lot of suspicious night actions? Tell me about all of them. I'm still alive? Sorry bro, but so is every other townie in the game. I don't recall being high priority target for scum in most of my games, and given how few time I have to put into this one, I'm even lesser. The hard-on for confirmation is also inconsistent, as pointed out by fuba. Speaking of hard-ons, I'd like to know from fuba why he seems so sure about me being town. That doesn't seem to be something that obvious to most of the others. Is it just for my cop check on Sent? I can't say why I think you're town except for the cop check. If I had to guess why I feel so sure, I'd say it's because I think vayne is scum, so I'm expecting you to flip town so as to "confirm" him. You being town is something I believe scum vayne has been counting on. You as scum doesn't really make sense if vayne is scum. | ||
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mkfuba07
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Scenario 1: We lynch Vayne, he flips scum. I can't draw any definitive information from this about Vivax. If there were no scum shenanigans, then Vivax is scum, and he was bussed pretty hard by Vayne (in the sense that vayne apparently wanted him lynched, not that vayne was really an impetus to the lynch). If scum shenanigans occurred in order to make Vayne "guaranteed town", then we know that scum couldn't control who was roleblocked because prplhz had that role. This means that Vivax could still be scum. Scenario 2: We lynch Vayne, he flips town. Pretty sure this guarantees I was wrong about both vayne and vivax and we lynch vivax the next day. I can't figure out shenanigans that scum could have pulled off to make both of them town in this situation. Scenario 3: We lynch Vivax, he flips scum. I can't draw any definitive information from this about Vayne. Sans shenanigans he could be either town or scum claiming to have doc'd WoS. With shenanigans, the roleblock was in the hands of prplhz, so scum had no control over it. If both are scum in this situation, Vayne "bussed" vivax consistently, but not really all that strongly. Scenario 4: We lynch Vivax, he flips town. This makes the most likely scumteam vayne and stutters based on cumulative night actions, which doesn't make sense given that town Vivax makes Vayne confirmed by N2 actions. This leads me to believe either shenanigans occurred and vayne is scum, or there is a lie/GF somewhere in jay/layabout. Based on these, I'm reasonably sure that at least one of the two is scum (barring jay just so happening to get GF). What would help me most is making me understand why my shenanigans are unreasonable (as people seem to believe). Based on play alone, I'd go with vayne over vivax because I see this potential for scum to manipulate night actions N2. I still think it's possible and viable given the state of the scumteam at that point in the game (down their power role since the first day). It also fits into scenarios 1 and 3, possibly explains the discrepancy in scenario 4. Scenario 2 is just me being plain wrong. Without considering shenanigans, every scenario leads to scum vivax except for the one where he inherently flips town. I'd switch my vote if I was convinced of this unlikelihood. | ||
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Why not vote for the scumread that is actually in consideration at the moment instead of adding in jay? | ||
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Really seems like even though vayne is a more reasonable lynch on your part, you were averse to actually voting for him. ##Unvote ##Vote: Vivax I only see one reason to suggest jay before vayne in your situation. | ||
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mkfuba07
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##Unvote ##Vote: VayneAuthority I'm gonna go with the person I felt was scummier. Guess stutters is the hammer now. | ||
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Wonder who stutters would have voted for if the lynch wasn't already decided. | ||
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gg Vivax | ||
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Thanks Dandel Ion and Artanis for hosting! | ||
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