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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 06 2013 12:32 Ace wrote: is Rayne always this impulsive? He seems less so in his red team filter; he explained his reads more at any rate. I don't really know what to make of his many impulsive votes, but I suspect he just likes attention. Ace, what do you think about WoS in light of his most recent posts? Is he scum? Why or why not? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 06 2013 12:52 Ace wrote: I think if any townie really believed I was Scum he'd put up much more of a fight than that. Nowhere in WoS's filter does he state any kind of scumread on you. He claims to have originally voted you as a half-serious policy lynch with the half-serious logic that you are very good at scum but can be a liability as town. He also says he thinks its a shame that people are content to let you do nothing because that is what you supposedly do on d1 as either alignment. But he doesn't state a scumread. Does that affect your read? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Axle, I don't have any questions for you. I don't think anything you posted was scummy. Palmar/marv you are wrong about my alignment. I'm busy today but in 7 or 8 hours from now I can sit down and have a chat. I also don't know why you think I'm scum with WoS. I'm thinking town on WoS if you couldn't tell from my posts earlier. For lack of time, I'll just post my notes: 2) WaveofShadow - claims town in first post when he knows it may draw attention - draws attention by making multi-line posts and not spamming - in and out of thread - huge-ass post for no reason - conspiracy theory (?) with Axle and Rayn - "you got me" post about his vote on Ace - philosophical problem with Ace/prplhz CONCLUSION: thinking town | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
In the last game I played with WoS, there was some deal made about people claiming town, and zarepath was all like claims town --> scummy. So I don't think WoS would be especially keen to claim town, unless he was genuinely extremely relieved to roll town. I don't think he would do that as scum. Everyone else was trolling and WoS started writing these huge-ass posts. I think this also leaves him open to attack and I don't see why he would do it as scum. Conspiracy theories are very townie imo. Like, it was a pretty unlikely theory. Rayn and Axle both scum and both misinterpreted WoS's posts together in the scum QT? I'm not even sure that was it. But it shows the paranoid mind of a townie. I thought his explanation of his Ace vote was reasonable. And I think that being frustrated with people not doing anything is very typical of a townie. And he seemed genuinely frustrated. Do you disagree with these points marv? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
I still don't think WoS is scum. His death posts felt fine and a few recent lines in his filter just feel genuine to me: + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 10:01 WaveofShadow wrote: I could vote prplhz, but how can I be sure that isn't just his 'typical play' as Oats previously told me? On April 06 2013 10:05 WaveofShadow wrote: I still have a lot of trouble with the idea that there are people we can just 'let do their thing' and if anyone actually suspects them before that point it's scummy. I can't see myself ever getting used to that idea. On April 07 2013 03:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Personally all the business with Oats/DP/iamp/whoever just seems to me like townies going at townies. DP seems very town to me sepcifically. In this game I think scum are much more likely to be in the lurky category. Prplhz and Ace/Axle? Tunkeg's case didnt' do much for me. Some of his points weren't scumtells (paragraph 1) and others were misrepresenting what happened in the thread (paragraphs 2,3,4). My only gripe with WoS is his generally low activity before he had like 6 votes but overall I'm still thinking town and I wouldn't be happy lynching him today. prplh'z vote on WoS reminded me of his unabashed pile-on onto Forumite D1 in Dwarf Mini. He still has hardly done anything and I'd be alright with lynching him today. But seeing as we have no time limit, I'd still like to hear more from him before hanging him. @marv I was confused by your refusal to lynch prplhz today, because the only two games I've read with you and prplhz on D1 (Dwarf Mini and that game you were mayor), prplhz played similarly to this game, you voted him, and he was scum. What's different about this game that makes him a bad lynch? Palmar, not getting lynched today is one of my top priorities, so I'd be interested in having some discussion with you and hopefully help you see the light. What do you want me to address? Also I think I owe Axle an answer to something. Going back through his filter now. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 06 2013 18:54 AxleGreaser wrote: You have I believe brought this up once or twice, yet not pushed me directly on it all.... Do you have question for me? I have one for you. I think you will find that if you read my post carefully, you will find I used the word .... [b]'thought'[b]. He had indeed not [b]said[b] he wanted to (potentially?) lynch him, he had however made inflammatory remarks likely to elicit an emotive response, by asking me to post on the subject he had in some sense handed me a metaphorical anchor. I (effectively)thanked him and gave it back. I was as careful as I could be to not be further inflammatory myself. If he did not indeed 'think' such posting style could be indicative of scuminess or used as shield to hide/obscure scummy play whenever you do roll scum, and hence part of a potential reason to lynch someone... Why is it relevant to the thread and what scum hunting intention/thought did he have in making the post? All I am left with its inflammatory nature. @Sciberbia: Questions. have you asked your self these Questions? Do you know something I don't? BTW. I did try not to make the question too hard... I provided one version of the answer at the bottom of the post. All someone had to do to answer the question was read what I said, and actually try and understand what I was saying, and either agree with what I said "I would need to see something directly scummy, rather than just noisily anti town.." or provide your own view. @Axle I'm not sure that I fully understand what your asking. I think what you're asking is 'hey scib what do you think about the fact that WoS asked me about rayn?' so that's the question I'm going to answer. I would not have made this post myself, because as you said, it doesn't do a lot to further scumhunting. I did think to myself a bit about this post because it did concern me a bit that he was 'being inflammatory' about rayn but not trying to draw his own conclusions about rayn's alignment. I concluded that this post is not unreasonable for a townie WoS to make because
So I can see this post being made by a town WoS and I therefore didn't see it as a cause for concern. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:11 marvellosity wrote: ##Unvote I'll sort this out tomorrow Can you answer my question about prplhz before you go? Do you see anything that makes you think he is town? If not, what makes this game different from Dwarf Mini and your mayor game? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:12 Palmar wrote: @marv, you played with sciberbia as town in dwarf fortress. What did you think about him day 1 there and why? Palmar, do you want to discuss anything in particular in my filter this game? Like, I'd be happy to explain exactly why I posted anything I've posted, and I'd even tell you how my play would likely differ if I were scum. It just seems like such a shame that you have a scumread on me and I'd really like to do something about it. On April 07 2013 09:15 marvellosity wrote: I thought he looked very town and as I recall he pushed what was a very sensible lynch (Forumite) even though I believed it was an incorrect one at the time. In some ways sciberbia seems less distant than whatever game it was that you were town and he was mafia in, and yet his push on Oats makes no sense to me, in addition to the things you mentioned already. I really don't understand why you think I'm scum for thinking Oats is reasonably likely to be scum. First of all, Ace and DP have stated scumreads on Oats. Are they scummy for it too? And secondly, what mafia motivation do you think I have for stating a scumread on Oats? Do you think I was just trying to push a mislynch with (as you say) bad reasoning? When I play mafia, I don't go out of my way to push bad mislynches. I just try to push the same sensible lynches that I push as town. If anything, I try to make my cases more 'agreeable sounding' when I'm mafia. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:16 AxleGreaser wrote: The distinctions I was making in this post were fine distinctions. I was indeed 'reaching' for the idea that perhaps you were not considering why/ (what intention)/ (what thought) was behind and motivated WoS This post My post was about WoS's towny intentions. (dropping emotive stuff and leaving, i found hard to put a towny intention on) That you have still not apparently gone back and considered, why WoS made that post that I was initially concerned about, is to me concerning. In the post above, you give what I think I can loosely describe as bunch of heuristics, do this and your scum, don't do this and your not. What I don't see there is you considering the purpose of the actions. I am sorry, I just found where you did...? If I misinterpreted his intentions.... (as looking for someone to Lynch... or commenting on characteristics of people that could make them someone to Lynch, or ..) How did you interpret the intention of this Post? In particular what did the graphic visual nature, do but inspire further emotive knee jerk posts? BTW writing this post Started before Scribs here and while stuff seems to be happening around the WoS Lynch for me that does not effect whether or not Scrib was considering why WoS did things. @Axle With every post I analyze I look at look at possible townie and mafia intentions behind it. I thought about WoS's post right after I read it. I'm sorry that I did not explain earlier but I was busy today. To explain why I said you misinterpreted his post: I think WoS gave no alignment read of rayn at all in the post you quoted. But you asked him On April 05 2013 13:49 AxleGreaser wrote: Was there any reason you thought we should lynch a headless chook? This implies that you thought WoS was personally showing interest in lynching rayn where I maintain that he wasn't. Hence why I said you misinterpreted his post. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote: I hold you to higher expectations than I do either of those players. I think you're being pretty unreasonable marv. First of all, Oats is an unflipped player, and I still think he has a decent chance of being scum, but for the purposes of this post I will assume he is town, because I'm trying to see things from your point of view. I make incorrect reads all the time. See my previous filter in The Game where I pushed townie lynches on D1 and D2. Also, you played in I Can't Believe where my top 3 reads on D3 were all town even though the rest of town all had their vote on the scum. And in hindsight those were some pretty bad reads. So the simple fact that I may have made an incorrect read clearly doesn't mean I'm scum. Do you think my evidence towards Oats being scum was so atrocious that I wouldn't post it as town? I stand by the fact that I pointed out a few things in his filter that are a cause for concern. Furthermore, do you really think that as scum I would push someone that I think looks townie? Because that is what you are implying. Please answer both questions. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:46 marvellosity wrote: Oats is (and I said it to him pre-game) a pretty popular target for mafia ire, because outwardly he does "scummy" things, like contradictions and other similar crap. If a mafia is looking to push a mislynch on to someone, Oats is the kinda guy to push it on, because he's easy to make a case on. I would have hoped, as town, that you would be able to take a broader view of Oats' play; some loud dude, pointing fingers and generally being all over the place on Day 1 - this is literally THE classic mislynch in Newbie games. So meh. Well there are two issues at hand here. One is my alignment and the other is Oats's alignment. Based on the votecount and the fact that I'm 100% sure of my own alignment, I'm just going to stick to that issue for now, and look at Oats again when I catch a break. You should note that I didn't attack Oats for being loud, contradicting himself, or pointing fingers. I stated suspicion on him for making a very safe entrance to the thread, promoting a negative town atmosphere (which I think he has continued to do), and making several posts that were a bit "out there". I think these are all legitimate scumtells and cause for concern. I'm not sure why you disagree. I would also like to reiterate that I would not push a case that I think is bad even if I were scum, especially with a player list like this where there are several players that I have played for and have respect for. As a side note, I strongly disagree with your characterization of my initial setup musings as fawning at Palmar. I did give my own opinion. It seems to me that optimal town play is to extend days for a long time. As I said. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 13:52 AxleGreaser wrote: I think this topic is about done. I believe I understand why you said pretty much all of what you did. So do you want me to address your questions in the first paragraph of that post or are we cool? Also, I'll be around reading filters for another hour or two if you/iamp want to discuss anything. I need to figure out where I stand on a few people. Top of the list are oats/marv/axle. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 14:07 iamperfection wrote: want to kill prplhz? I've clarified my stance on him already iamp. I'm leaning scum on him. I agree with your recent sentiment that anyone who reads his filter should be leaning scum on him. He hasn't showed a lot of interest in the game and that is generally indicative of scum. I don't know why Palmar/Ace think that prplhz being useless is strictly null because I recall from Dwarf Mini that HiroPro & marv & I looked at prplhz's meta and concluded that he is usually more useful on D1 as town compared to his usual uselessness as scum. That said, I don't want to kill him right this instant. Since we can take as long as we want on this lynch, I'd rather get a stronger scumread before killing someone. Are you really even like 60% sure he is scum? Townies can be uninterested in games too. If you had the power to decide the lynch right now would you really kill prplhz? You're that confident? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 14:24 DarthPunk wrote: OK. There was a wagon with three votes on marvellosity and noone seems to have commented at all on it. I find that strange. Well I agree with what you said about his jump on my wagon being concerning. I know that marv thinks very highly of my town play, and therefore I'm concerned that he was willing to let me die on what in my opinion was some pretty flimsy evidence. Here are some quotes of his from a scum QT from a long time ago + Show Spoiler + that's why I'm coaching in scumQT hehe. sciberbia just replaced Monk. you need to nightkill him. -------------------------------------------------------------- sciberbia is arguably the strongest newbie to come through TL Mafia in recent times. And within this game he said + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote: I hold you to higher expectations than I do either of those players. referring to DP and Ace, who are certainly no slouches. Knowing that he thinks a lot of my town play, I see a ton of mafia motivation to support Palmar's sciberbia wagon and try to get me out of the game, and on Palmar's wagon no less (yes I think Palmar is town). But I don't see a lot of town motivation for his complacency in just letting me die. Posts like these don't sit right with me. + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 20:49 marvellosity wrote: Alright Palmar. We can do it your way. For now. ##Vote: sciberbia On April 07 2013 02:04 marvellosity wrote: They're both looking pretty tough to me right now >.< I kinda just want someone to die and flip really. On April 07 2013 08:45 marvellosity wrote: Unlike Oats, who is "scum at best, town is worst"? Super solid reason you have there, Ace. I'm with Palmar on this one. And your irrational opposition to the lynch while championing an equally irrational lynch makes me feel better about it too. You're telling us/town it makes no sense to unvote WoS, but you've never actually had your vote on him yourself. If you're so sure, why weren't you hammering his wagon? #paranoia #yolo #willlookatthegamewhilenotundertheinfluencetomorrow ##Vote: sciberbia If we were about to lynch DP/Palmar/marv/anyone that I think would be quite an asset as town, I'd want to feel damn good about them being scum before letting them die. Especially because there is no rush to lynch today. But I don't think marv had any especially good reasons to think I am scum. marv has seen me play a lot, and I don't think my play this game has been that different from other games where I've been town. Marv should know that I like posting fluffy setup stuff as town, and overall I think he should be able to read me as town, or at the very least not have a scumread. But I suppose it's possible we both just overestimate each other and that he is impatient and doesn't think like me. Even before the wagon on me, I was leaning scum on marv based on some things earlier in the game. I think there's a decent chance he's scum. The towniest thing in his filter to me is his WoS/scib conspiracy theory. Like I said before I think theories like that show paranoia and are generally indicative of town. I dunno. It's getting late. Sorry for rambling a bit. Am I talking sense DP? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 15:05 Oatsmaster wrote: sleeping is good ##Unvote Hey guys, about Sciberia and DP. They clearly DONT CARE what I have to say in response to them. I responded to DP's case. IGNORED. I posted more stuff about Sciberia. IGNORED. Again about Sciberia lets hammer this scum. Wtf what is this post that PUSHES NOTHING. Its REACTIVE not proactive. Scum are reactive. Town are proactive. He talks about WoS in LENGTH and defends him for no bloody reason when it was clear that he was not very close to being lynched. ##Vote Sci Wagon on marv is stupid. Why is he scum? ALL THE PEOPLE THAT VOTED FOR HIM? Im assuming Palmar's is a pressure vote but the rest, Im not so sure. @Oats I didn't see anything that I thought was worth responding to. You added to your case on me with some points which I thought were clearly not very good. + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 23:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Time to hammer Scib INTO THE GROUND. or rope in this case. This 'analysis' is mostly summary and I dont see ANYTHING of the sciberia that was nk'ed early in THE GAME. Especially this, it feels like the 'criteria' that iGrok had in MTG2 where you fit posts into slots. (iGrok was scum btw) He also didnt bother to check his meta read against any other games that I played. He has had a low impact in the thread so far and again, doesnt feel like the town sciberia im used to seeing. And I do remember expanding on my thoughts on WoS because you and marv had an issue with them. I disagree that WoS was not close to being lynched. Marv and Palmar agreed that he was scummy. IMO that put him in DANGER territory. Also, there was some talk about a scib/WoS connection, so I thought it would be good to make it clear where I stood on WoS and why my previous posts were so 'nice' about him. I had not zero not one but two townie motivations for sharing that townread. Yes I was catching up with the thread. Hence I was reacting to the things in the thread that I was reading. I don't know why this is a problem. I'm "reacting" to your most recent post right now. It doesn't make me scum. Oats, all bravado aside, on a scale from 0% to 100% how confident are you that I am scum? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 15:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Is this like the 'You should BE ABLE TO SEE THAT I AM TOWN', scumtell thing? Cause thats is absolute bullshit and inaccurate. Do you have ANY REASONS why marv is scum? or are you just bullshitting? The one above ISNT. Yes I just explained one significant reason I have for thinking marv is scum. He has a lot of scum motivation for trying to get me lynched on Palmar's wagon. I would expect a town marv to have more reservations about lynching me for fear of losing a town scib. He had almost no reasons for voting me, and the one original reason he provided was very bad imo. I just explained this. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 15:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Is this like the 'You should BE ABLE TO SEE THAT I AM TOWN', scumtell thing? Cause thats is absolute bullshit and inaccurate. Do you have ANY REASONS why marv is scum? or are you just bullshitting? The one above ISNT. Also the "YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THAT OATS IS TOWN" scumtell is pretty much the exact scumtell marv was using on me. Do you think that was bullshit as well? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 07 2013 15:54 Oatsmaster wrote: Marv and Palmar unvoted WoS BEFORE you made that post IIRC Explaining townreads in full detail IMO isnt a townie move. How confident are you that WoS is town? close to 100%. You arent scumhunting. You dont want to find out who is scum. You avoided pissing anyone off(joke k DP) @Oats Marv's vote was still on WoS. And regardless of where votes were, both marv and Palmar made it clear that WoS was in their top two, so I felt like his life was certainly in danger. As I already said, I think that my explaining of why I think WoS is town was in town's best interests. Hmm, well with a baseline of about 73% just based on math, I would say I'm about 83% confident that WoS is town. + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 15:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Yes yes I think that is bullshit as well. However Marv is sleeping and you arent. Right ok so the main reason you think that marv is scum is because he thinks you are scum because you shouldve read me as town. RIGHT. And Palmar did that to marv as well. So is Palmar scum too? Or is it just marv? 1 reason alone does not make someone scum. DP response to my response on your case please. You are IGNORING whatever I said. good job I say, GOOD JOB. You are misrepresenting what I said about marv. As I already explained, it was the way marv went about voting me and 'pushing' me that I found concerning, not the mere fact that marv stated a scumread on me. As I already said, I don't think Palmar is scum. As I already said, there are other things in marv's filter that I don't like. And for what it's worth, there is no rule that you need at least 2 reasons to think someone is scum. Oats you are either scum or you are town and thoroughly convinced that I am scum. Either way, continuation of this discussion seems a waste of my time so I'm going to stop responding to your accusations. Feel free to address them to the rest of the thread. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
prplhz should be on everyone's radar for showing no interest in town on D1 which is not only scummy in and of itself, but specifically fits with his scum meta. marv I think has a decent chance of being scum and I look forward to discussing him tomorrow. Oats I'm pretty much still in the same spot as yesterday. I didn't think DP's case on him was that convincing because I think DP misread all of Oats's posts about iamp, and I don't think Oats's followup of his scum read on me has been lacking. But, I think he has continued to be disruptive and I didn't like how he jumped on the WoS wagon so easily, abandoning his supposedly strong scumread of me. I want to have a look at his scum games to see if he is able to keep up this level as abrasiveness as scum. The only other person that piqued my scumdar today was Axle because he jumped both on and off of my wagon with imo weak reasoning. And he is supposed to be more active/helpful as town. I guess he is now on my suspects list. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
I'm neither distant not uninterested. I spent like 8 hours on this game yesterday and I'll be here until the lynch. Also, I was not actually around when WoS had 6 votes I think. I think I came back shortly after marv unvoted. Don't know why it matters though. I clearly would not have hammered him as either alignment after stating I think he is town. And why is one of me / WoS scum? I don't see any reason to think that is necessarily true. Or marv / Ace for that matter. Working on a post to marv. Should be done soon. | ||
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