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On April 22 2013 06:07 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:01 Hopeless1der wrote:
theres scarcely the need for a separate qt when you're scum. its not 100% but I actually agree with kush for a change. I suppose that's true but until marv confirmed it himself it wasn't as clear. He could also be 3p btw.
Yes, that is a thing I skipped over, so thx.
On April 22 2013 06:07 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:06 Hopeless1der wrote:Palmar, are you ever going to elaborate on the bolded? On April 21 2013 19:36 Palmar wrote:On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while. I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today. Discuss. geript already explained it to you. As a rule of thumb, it's more likely town players storm into the thread asap, it's certainly not very valuable, but it does have some value.
I'd consider that a poor rule of thumb, but alright...how's your read on Oats doing?
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What the fuck is this suspicion on me based on? My determination to "Shut down townreads"? Yes, when you're handing them out like hotcakes and trying to hold hands singing kumbya. This is Mafia, not summer camp singalong.
I'm not discouraging reasonable townreads, I'm trying to keep things objective and informed. The two points against me are my comments on VE's entrance and Vivax/Palmar's entrance posts.
For VE, watch carefully:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 01:50 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:48 getmoript wrote:On April 22 2013 01:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On April 22 2013 01:23 kushm4sta wrote:
WE knew that's what VE meant because we are town. Scum prob didn't know what he meant. Now you just explained it to them. Why wouldn't scum know what he meant? They had to do the exact same thing, the only difference is they had a QT in their PM. They still have to look up if they are framer,rber,godfather or whatever. Literally every person has to reference the op for their role, regardless of alignment. How would you even know this? Are you scum? Did you receive a QT in your PM? Did you receive the QT in the same pm or a different pm? You are treading on highly suspicious ground for me because as a hydra I received my hydra QT in the same PM. You aren't a hydra clearly. How would you know that? On March 22 2013 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:Sample PMs:How the fuck is this so difficult to understand?
Am I trying to prevent townreads? You could say that. However, the reasoning used to attain a townread on VE was true of literally every player in the game. It's the equivalent of calling anyone who doesn't post for more than an hour scum. Man's gotta sleep right? Same way he has to READ THE OP TO LEARN WHAT HIS ROLE IS???
Vivax/Palmar's openings:
Palmar, based on the plethora of information from Vivax's two posts, the first ones in the game, declares Vivax to be unlynchable. Just like that. And that was alright because I felt similar about it. I mean I'd still have an open mind, but Vivax's post did put me onto a townier side of Vivax. My problem with Palmar's post was that he called something really fucking stupid a valuable towntell heuristic.
Let me break this shit down:
DAY 1 POST timestamp
On April 21 2013 16:55 Blazinghand wrote:
Vivax's first posts, the ones Palmar was referring to
On April 21 2013 18:23 Vivax wrote:
Good morning.
Is it safe to assume scum didn't post yet?
On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while.
So roughly an hour and a half. In addition there were 15ish posts between 6 players, obs notwithstanding. Also, the game started in the dead of night where I am.
Hydra Mini
scum in ~30 minutes, 33 posts into the game.
Ego Mini:
scum posted within an hour of game start. 34 posts in.
Noir Mini:
scum four minutes and 6 posts into the game
British Empire II
second post of the game 3 minutes in.
Red team's prize
Scum in under an hour, 25 posts in.
The Game
scum 5 minutes in, second post
All of these games violate Vivax's heuristic, but fuck me for pointing it out (without proof i guess) and questioning Palmar as to why he felt it was valuable, eh guys? . These are literally games just going down the list of the TL Mafia forum. I'm obviouscum trying to derail town from giving out
Completely valid and well thought out town reads based on sound reasoning.
Nah, you can all go die in a fire if you want to lynch me for this.
As of right now, I'm on Sharrant's side and would lynch rayn. I disllike his backpedal about "policy" miller lynching. I dislike his case overall as it is largely OMGUS, but still asks questions of the person he is accusing. However, his preface to his case was here:
On April 22 2013 12:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Wait what Sharrant.. Are you seriously saying that i'm trying to gain credit from town!TRN lynch on D1 as mafia? That's your conclusion?
On April 22 2013 12:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes Sharrant, where are the other mafia players voting for TRN so that i can gain credit from the lynch?
These two quotes don't accomplish anything to me. He's just throwing the question back at sharrant like a stall tactic of feigning disbelief. For having come up with a scumread on Sharrant it seems grounded in the fact that Sharrant is wrong, not necessarily scum.
On April 22 2013 12:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I fail to see how Sharrant can possibly think i am taking his "bait" and defending town!TRN (as he's now saying) as mafia. If TRN was my lynchbait, i would need my teammates to vote for him to gain the credit, otherwise defending him is useless for me. There is/was noone else voting for TRN.
That's the worst reasoning to backpedal from a scumread i have ever heard. On top of that, Sharrant obviously hasn't even read why i think TRN is town. Hint: The post where i answer OO about him.
"If I WERE mafia, blah blah blah" No. I say you ARE mafia.
##Vote: raynpelikoneet
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On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote:
One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more.
Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.)
Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy.
About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that.
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On April 23 2013 01:32 Vivax wrote:I'll probably take hopeless out of my scumspects for now. Not every bad idea is necessarily a scum agenda, meh. I do hold in high regard that he actually goes against Rayn, as he's another guy I'd lynch. Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 01:25 TheRavensName wrote:On April 23 2013 01:15 Vivax wrote:
CC, let's talk a little. Who do we lynch? I do like ShiaoPi as lynch as well, so do we start making cases and stuff or do you think we should stick to a policy? What policy are you advocating/open to exactly? A lurker lynch or did I miss anoth er policy that wasn't the miller claim one? Either Drazak for excusing himself out (ask for replacement if you can't play the game), or people showing up late in the day without some damn good contributions. A damn good contribution isn't a huge post with a vote at the end, like RyuSuzaku in The game™, who rolled scum.
you wanna clear that vote you have on me that went relatively unnoticed?
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so...its a pressure vote on someone you think is less scum than other players....are you sure you know how to play this game?
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On April 23 2013 01:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 00:02 Sharrant wrote:
It's a good try, Rayne, but no.
Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back.
The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter.
I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him.
The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter.
If you can't understand that, I can't help you. Ahh so you went back on the policy lynch thing. Then why did you say you agreed with me? Show nested quote +I will deal with this post after BM gets back, but as I have agreed with Rayne I will not discuss this any farther until such time. I did not know if BM claimed miller or not, that's the sole reason why it can't be a policy lynch. Yes, i would lynch anyone who claimed miller on D1, but i can't policy lynch BM because i didn't know if he claimed miller or not, so this particular situation is not a disguise to policy lynch someone because it CANNOT BE SO IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Fuck, why is reading so hard for you guys?- Why did you agree with your scumread TRN about me saying stuff that i have never said?
- Why did you make a big post focusing on entire different things on me being scum than in the post you voted me on?
- Why did you agree with me and now again backpedal from your latest theory?
On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote:
One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more.
Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.)
Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy.
About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that.
Readings not so bad....
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On April 23 2013 01:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes and right after:
"If it wasn't, he needs to explain this:"
You didn't give a shit when you voted him
On April 22 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:11 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 01:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 22 2013 00:08 Vivax wrote:
Not sure what to make of BM "claiming" snape like that. If I were to make a crazy guess, he's checking whether the real snape shows up contesting the claim, then say he posted some random shit cause he was drunk (cause that's what his posts look like ). And if the real snape doesn't show up, he will claim he's snape.
That'd be pretty ballsy, but effective scumplay. Let's see what BM has to say regarding this. What's in your opinion the point of doing this as we can't know how many of each roles are in the game? If there is someone who claims snape, why can't BM be another one? Vivax could you answer this? I don't think there can be two self-aware millers. Don't see much point in discussing that atm, why does it concern you at this point? BM didn't even answer yet. Because the OP clearly states there can be multiple number of same roles, so discussing if there are one or more self-aware millers in stupid in the first place. Anyone who claims miller on D1 should be lynched.##Vote: Bill Murray
Note that your vote post cites a lynch all miller claims as a policy for your vote.
raynpelikoneet, Do you disagree? This is a 'yes' or 'no' question specifically referencing whether or not you used a policy to justify your initial vote on Bill Murray.
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On April 23 2013 02:06 Vivax wrote:Hopeless, can I ask To me, early game: Show nested quote +
Palmar's explanation for why he gave you a townread doesn't make sense to me and I want to question it. No one is confirmed fuck-all until they flip, but you throw it around based on the fact that they posted in the thread before you. I'd call that as you being reckless. Not scum, not town. Palmar disagrees and has cited some kind of reasoning. I wish to hear it.
About me, lately in big post: Show nested quote +
Palmar, based on the plethora of information from Vivax's two posts, the first ones in the game, declares Vivax to be unlynchable. Just like that. And that was alright because I felt similar about it. I mean I'd still have an open mind, but Vivax's post did put me onto a townier side of Vivax. My problem with Palmar's post was that he called something really fucking stupid a valuable towntell heuristic.
why first you say my post was null, and then say it puts me on the townier side of things, all the while arguing against the heuristic?
You had two posts that were being referenced. The first was that everyone before you was town. That was nonsense and the reckless part I refer to. The flippant response to ShiaoPi gave me a similar vibe to what Palmar cited.
My issue with Palmar's post was that it did not seem well thought out and was actively putting on blinders regarding your alignment. He supported his read with some throwaway reasoning and it read as sketchy buddying to me. VE pointed out that it is unlikely to come from Palmar, but that's how I viewed it and wanted to see what was up. As a general feel, I can see how someone might believe that scum are more likely to lurk in their qt at first, but...just no. Not true at all, especially in the way that you used it and in the way that Palmar supported your foolishness.
At the end of all this it scarcely matters because Palmar remains on my "look at when he's still alive day 3" list.
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On April 23 2013 02:23 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 02:12 Hopeless1der wrote:On April 23 2013 02:06 Vivax wrote:Hopeless, can I ask To me, early game:
Palmar's explanation for why he gave you a townread doesn't make sense to me and I want to question it. No one is confirmed fuck-all until they flip, but you throw it around based on the fact that they posted in the thread before you. I'd call that as you being reckless. Not scum, not town. Palmar disagrees and has cited some kind of reasoning. I wish to hear it.
About me, lately in big post:
Palmar, based on the plethora of information from Vivax's two posts, the first ones in the game, declares Vivax to be unlynchable. Just like that. And that was alright because I felt similar about it. I mean I'd still have an open mind, but Vivax's post did put me onto a townier side of Vivax. My problem with Palmar's post was that he called something really fucking stupid a valuable towntell heuristic.
why first you say my post was null, and then say it puts me on the townier side of things, all the while arguing against the heuristic? You had two posts that were being referenced. The first was that everyone before you was town. That was nonsense and the reckless part I refer to. The flippant response to ShiaoPi gave me a similar vibe to what Palmar cited. My issue with Palmar's post was that it did not seem well thought out and was actively putting on blinders regarding your alignment. He supported his read with some throwaway reasoning and it read as sketchy buddying to me. VE pointed out that it is unlikely to come from Palmar, but that's how I viewed it and wanted to see what was up. As a general feel, I can see how someone might believe that scum are more likely to lurk in their qt at first, but...just no. Not true at all, especially in the way that you used it and in the way that Palmar supported your foolishness. At the end of all this it scarcely matters because Palmar remains on my "look at when he's still alive day 3" list. Well, what gave me reason for concern was your motivation behind that attack, not if you were right on the heuristic, cause that (and you also questioning somebody else's townread on VE) gave me the impression that your goal in this game is to antagonize townreads, not argue why somebody is scum, which is something you clearly were doing, and doesn't seem like something a townie would feel like doing, since you would be attempting to reduce confusion about people's alignments and persuade others about them, not trying to keep alive the confusion by arguing over townreads. Not sure if it was just bad play, since it could easily be scumplay too. But if you want to do something more useful than stopping others from getting townreads, then point us towards your scumreads please.
Yeah, my motivation is that Palmar could have been buddying you and his townread was based on next to nothing. At the moment, i'm waiting to see if rayn can handle a simple yes or no question, but he's my scumread.
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Vivax where did your unofficial count come from it looks wonky...
in any case, this should be L-1 on Oats
##Unvote: raynpelikoneet
##Vote: Oatsmaster
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On April 23 2013 21:42 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 21:22 Vivax wrote:
Me and ace are basically the only ones asking people to switch to Oats, others say "can do", others say it looks like a policy, or try to push other cases.
If this was a wagon on a townie, scum could be pushing it easily at this point.
Why didn't any of this happen yet? There's resistance here. Again, worst reasoning ever. Cause im town. Yeah. Hopeless. Why am I scum?
I think you're too trolly in the face of dieing to be town. I'm not even certain you have a scum read on anyone at all. You've provided next to nothing. A shitty list post where your strongest scum read is "well someone has to be scum, why not Ace". gtfo.
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uhh according to the official counts, Oats is hammered
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Pretty sure people took vivax's count at face value...he missed getmoript and CC in his count which I really do not understand how that shit happens, nor how I'm the only one that's noticed. Like wtf
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On April 25 2013 03:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar if you at any point flip town in this game and VE is alive i make sure he hangs.
you shall have my axe
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Contrary to popular opinion, reading the OP is actually a good skill toi have
On March 22 2013 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:Death Eaters Scum KP is # of scum / 2, rounded down. Scum KP is delivered factionally and cannot be roleblocked. Scum will return normal-looking roles to rolecop checks (ie Scum Vigilante returns Vigilante, Scum Goon returns Vanilla, Scum Framer returns Cop) but with the exception of the Godfather, return Red to DT checks.
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Someones bound to point out that Palmar's list was immediately followed up with
On April 23 2013 00:31 Palmar wrote:
notice how I omitted VE.
That's how I feel about him right now.
On April 23 2013 00:33 Palmar wrote:
lazy ve is scum ve
##Vote VisceraEyes
Note the timestamps for reference, he knew what he was doing with that list. However, I agree with VE that Palmar has yet to take hold of the town in any meaningful capacity.
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On April 26 2013 06:32 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 06:25 Hopeless1der wrote:Someones bound to point out that Palmar's list was immediately followed up with On April 23 2013 00:31 Palmar wrote:
notice how I omitted VE.
That's how I feel about him right now. On April 23 2013 00:33 Palmar wrote:
lazy ve is scum ve
##Vote VisceraEyes Note the timestamps for reference, he knew what he was doing with that list. However, I agree with VE that Palmar has yet to take hold of the town in any meaningful capacity. Want some syrup with that waffle?
nah i'm watching my figure..
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Someone read through Sharrant's filter and explain to me how he's all buddy-buddy with raynpelikoneet now. Also who are the two scumreads from On April 25 2013 03:47 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I'm glad you seem to understand me Sharrant. I feel sorry for you (us) for wasting a good portion of D1.. :/ I'm certainly not sorry for it, I think it bagged us two scum.
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rayn why is sharrant so cool with you now?
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On April 27 2013 03:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hopeless who is your preferred lynch today?
tbh Sharrant until someone can explain how he gets away from his scumread on you, as evidenced from
On April 22 2013 13:26 Sharrant wrote:
--SNIP--
At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless.
Any more questions?
On April 23 2013 00:02 Sharrant wrote:
It's a good try, Rayne, but no.
Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back.
The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter.
I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him.
The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter.
If you can't understand that, I can't help you.
Those important things, like not lynching your primary scumread? He doesnt return to 'get things done" until Oats is lynched.
Clarity's spiel about 'easy outs' doesnt look that stupid to me considering how Sharrant's read on rayn went into the abyss with no comment at all. He just dropped his read with no explanation that I can find. What gives?
There's also what I view as feigned contribution. I realize he's posted way more than I have, but when you post
On April 25 2013 01:29 Sharrant wrote:
Is there anyone around who feels like chatting? I don't want to put up any large posts until it's just about daybreak (which I think is in about 2 and a half hours if someone could confirm).
and then don't drop a wall of text in some regard, it looks like faked activity to me. This is also his first post after insisting he has shit to do upon his return, but I cant find these amazing things he's done. He's focused his attention towards clarity, but clarity barely existed at this point. Where are these "better things" sharrant promised?
##Vote: Sharrant
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EPT
