EPTTL Mafia LXI - Page 18
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
So much so that one me conversing with everyone all the time is not enough to keep my brilliant intellect under control, therefore I give you ShadowofWave! ShadowofWave: Nice to be here. WaveofShadow: So it's been a very interesting game thus far, would you agree? ShadowofWave: Very much so, yes. Full of twists and turns. A lot of quality scumhunting going on. Speaking of which, haven't seen a lot from you lately. Any scumreads? WaveofShadow: Yeah I know. Scumreads? Palmar and probably Hopeless/one of the lurkers. More likely Hopeless. And you? ShadowofWave: Not good enough. Not giving my reads until you give me some reasoning behind yours. WaveofShadow: I've given reasoning for my reads all throughout the thread; in fact my scumread on Palmar is even stronger now. Remember how I AND Yamato agreed (in our HUGE amounts of conversation we agreed to have) that one of Palmar and BC have to be scum? I find it very difficult to believe the argument that BC and Yamato had for the latter part of the day was between scum and town. ShadowofWave: That's fucking retarded. You're an idiot. Palmar and BC BOTH argued with Yamato throughout the end of that day. WaveofShadow: Differences between the arguments: BC gets emotional, Palmar doesn't. BC is way more invested into his push, Palmar pushes a little, goes away and comes back to disassemble a yamato post then goes away. BC gets angry and analyzes the shit out of why he believes yamato to be scum; Palmar simply looks to discredit yamato for his reads despite agreeing with many of them. + Show Spoiler + On May 07 2013 08:07 Palmar wrote: Hello! I'm your friendly Yamato interpreter: Stutters is town because I say so, I think I would think he's scum maybe if he's scum so probably town idk? Look guys, I actually have a legit reason for thinking someone is town, I mean, anything less vague than "he's too involved" is of course too much, but at least he claimed miller! No need for interpreter here, this is actually correct, if lacking in detail. yeah, probably true. No, geript may be the scummiest person in the thread, he just skates by on the modconfirm thing. Artanis is town because I say so, I'll just dash in some fancy words. "rational.... and involved" that'll do it. means I don't have to read or cite specific trains of thought. BC is maybe town because Palmar is maybe confirmed town eh... I mean.... yeah sure, he's maybe scum and Palmar is maybe scum? So right guys, I got this, Palmar is maybe scum and BC is maybe town. Yeah that's why BC is solid town read of mine. BM is town because he posts a lot... I guess. I also forgot that period where BM left the game. Shit, I have no reason here... hmm... tryhard? I'll just tell the guys they're stupid if they don't agree. I mean they'll totally agree the guy with the shortest filter is town on sheer effort? I guess Kush is town because why not? rofl, good job yamato ##Unvote ##Vote Yamato ShadowofWave: Doesn't mean shit, bro, you're legit terrible. What about this? This 'appeal to authority' looks downright terrible. On May 07 2013 12:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote: have you read the game? I have had a read on yamato all game, ve had that same read, ace had the same read, palmar is now saying it? We know the flip of two of those players already, 1 was town 1 was 3p, both are responsible for heavy pushing the votes where mafia were lynched. Ace played for the most part a very town oriented game. I am inclined to believe that 4 players all getting the same read on a player means the guy is likely what those 4 think He's using 3p as evidence that vets know what they're talking about, and we should just sheep them; 3p WHO HAS THEIR OWN FUCKING AGENDA. We have NO IDEA of the alignment of the other 2 players listed and he is attempting to use that as evidence that a read is correct? What a bunch of horseshit. WaveofShadow: Yeah that's pretty awful. I honestly don't even know. Personally I'd like to know why either Palmar or BC are alive right now considering they are probably the most dangerous as self-proclaimed 'vets' so late into a game. Hell Palmar himself said he's sick of being killed instantly so he specifically tried to play differently (read: terribly) this game so as not to be killed. If he's playing terribly why the FUCK is he still alive? And BC at the beginning of the game called previous towns who have lynched/shot him early D1/N1 terrible, does that mean he thinks our current town is doing well, with basically no clue where to go next, flip-flopping on lynch targets a whole day? Very quick to take credit, very quick to shame others for not performing up to his standards; I don't see how this guy is a benefit to town either right now; lynching either of them tomorrow IMO is the way to go. ShadowofWave: So Artanis what do you think of a Geript lynch tomorrow? WaveofShadow: Dude I thought we were talking. And Geript is modconfirmed town remember? ShadowofWave: Yeah fuck you I don't feel like listening to you. You're bad. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Valuable insight incoming, ladies and gentlemen, you can bet your genitalia on it. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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WaveofShadow
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On May 08 2013 18:56 Palmar wrote: wos can you please stop calling me scum with terrible reasons. It's really distracting and it makes me want to lynch people I shouldn't lynch, like yamato. lol. LOL clearly my fault. And clearly you responded to what I'd written in the past when you said you were going to lololololololololoolololololololololololol On May 04 2013 05:09 Palmar wrote: @wos do you want me to explain why that case is wrong? I kinda meant to ignore you, but I can respond to it if you want me to It's ok though I'm totally not worth responding to. Go about your business, good sir. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 08 2013 21:58 kushm4sta wrote: palmar the thing is, your reason for thinking yamato is scum is even worse than his reason for thinking you were scum. He thinks you are scum therefore he must die? Are you kidding me? How fucking arrogant can you be bro? You do not look super town this game at all. I know you think you are the mafia bomb because of "your play d1 and your ability to influence the game" (which you brag about every fucking game btw) but you have not been a positive force on this game at all. I think there is a very good chance you are scum. After Hopeless and BC you are the next scummiest. All you do this game is call people terrible... seriously that is unacceptable hypocritical flaming but you do it constantly. I actually would lynch you purely for punishment at this point. Town can take more potentnial mislynches if necessary. we are winning. Maybe kill 1 scum first then kill palmar for punishment? http://i.imgur.com/I5PxJ.gif | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 08 2013 21:58 kushm4sta wrote: palmar the thing is, your reason for thinking yamato is scum is even worse than his reason for thinking you were scum. He thinks you are scum therefore he must die? Are you kidding me? How fucking arrogant can you be bro? You do not look super town this game at all. I know you think you are the mafia bomb because of "your play d1 and your ability to influence the game" (which you brag about every fucking game btw) but you have not been a positive force on this game at all. I think there is a very good chance you are scum. After Hopeless and BC you are the next scummiest. All you do this game is call people terrible... seriously that is unacceptable hypocritical flaming but you do it constantly. I actually would lynch you purely for punishment at this point. Town can take more potentnial mislynches if necessary. we are winning. Maybe kill 1 scum first then kill palmar for punishment? I fail. LETS TRY THAT AGAIN ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I5PxJ.gif) | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I don't understand how you can exude such an attitude of complete confidence despite your performance this game; it's that arrogance that kush outlined that absolutely infuriates me, including your propensity to compltely ignore or shrug off those points from people you deem 'terrible' and either not worth your time or not worth listening to. (This may just be referring to me in this case, but it's an attitude I see from a few players on mafia, BC included. Ace appears to be an exception.) Despite the fact that you see me and my cases as terrible, I've been right about quite a few things this game (though nobody appears to acknowledge this---yet you're constantly bringing up things YOU were right about), and I also know who the JK is, and have for a little while now. There are many things that I have contributed that simply get bypassed because my way of figuring out the game doesn't fit within the brackets of what you would determine to be 'good play' yet apparently achieves the same result (or in this case, BETTER results if people ever listened to me). I was unsure about your case originally when I wrote it, but if you'd read it wasn't necessarily a case to get you lynched, it was merely a summation of my thoughts on you, some points and counterpoints, and then I literally said "I dunno guys, help me out." AND NOBODY DID. Town is a team, and no one can be sure of their own cases/reads all of the time, not even you, yet many people treat their reads as G-d's word to fucking Moses. It was an opening for you or anyone else to say: "your case is shit and here's why." "Or I agree for such and such reasons" But nobody did so I was left with my own thoughts echoing in my head. I'm going to wipe all bias I have clean when I look into you over the next little bit, just as I did the first time. If you ignore it then despite what I find I will be pushing for your lynch tomorrow as I will therefore not be seeing you as an asset to town alive, only through the information gleaned by your death. Whether or not people listen to me on that will not matter to me. Whether or not you feel threatened by this does not matter to me. If you, or other people respond, perhaps we can actually begin to solve this game properly. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I'm probably not going to be able to finish my read by the deadline, but that doesn't concern me because neither of us are dying tonight. I'm also curious as to whether or not you're ACTUALLY going to check me tonight because you haven't really listened to other's plans for your checks this game. If you do, I believe I know exactly what result you will be getting for reasons I will eventually outline. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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Continuing my read. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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I'm curious about this as well, you draw parallels between yamato and I. Why respond to him and not to me? | ||
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WaveofShadow
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On May 09 2013 02:28 TheRavensName wrote: Kinda see how I felt now don't ya? I already know how you felt, that's why I explained it to you and why I actually gave you (and have been giving you) the time of day. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On April 23 2013 10:16 Palmar wrote: am I the hammer? Cause I fucking love hammering ##unvote ##vote Oatsmaster This looks strangely like a pattern. Same thing you did to Yamato but in fewer words. Apparently you really REALLY don't like being called scum. I am not sure whether or not this is alignment indicative, however; it would probably depend on whaether or not you've done this in other games and, as you've put it so often this game, cba. Also interesting that you chose to vote for yamato and Oats when they called you scum but not me. Let's move on to Clarity. Yep, it's a point for town me because you know.. I'm town. Generally townies do townie things. Now I once called this a point for a town Palmar but in the same post I say it could be a scummy thing to do if you recognized that Clarity's posting was shit and he was likely to be lynched. You ignored that part of it. Then there's this: On May 02 2013 23:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Resigned? You apparently don't know me dude lol. How about you people who think I am mafia go back and read the games I have been mafia in. Bill Murray ran a game which is number 28 I believe that was imbalanced in favour of the town by extreme amounts and I led my team to victory quite successfully. I have bussed inactive teammates to ensure I was viewed as confirmed town, etc... If I was mafia this game I would have bussed my entire team that was inactive, made sure that I was the reason they died, and proceeded to off town systematically while being confirmed the entire way. Seems entirely possible that this is what was done. There are both town and scum points for this therefore I remove it as solely a town point for you. Talking about ShiaoPi and VE: Yeah, I thought VE was scum, and you agree he looked bad early. I still thought he was scum by this day, and by extension I gave shiaopi a probably town read, not a big deal. I can't be right on everything, and very often I miss under-the-radar scum. I like lynching VE, and I was willing to throw my weight behind a clarity lynch too. I don't think anyone expects you to be right on everything. Maybe, MAYBE I can accept that you were wrong about VE this far into the game, but any quick look into Shiao at all showed that he was NOT under the radar and looked objectively scummy all game. A pre-flip association based on your scumread of VE? That isn't good play no matter how you look at it. Combine this with the logic of bussing an inactive Clarity over an active Shiao, and your constant defending of Shiao when you defend NONE of your other townreads all game and this makes you look scummy. Very scummy. Regarding your defense of accusations of Clarity bus: No, this is the post where I agree that Clarity lynch is a good one and since I have a very strong case on him (the same reason I said "sup scum" to him on day 1, just articulated). Think about it for a little while, if I'm scum palmar wouldn't I try to extract every little ounce of town-cred out of the clarity lynch? why would I bother with saying I still wanted to lynch VE? The truth is I thought VE was scum. I still think he was playing strange, but obviously his relative lack of leadership may have been, just like mine, based on his role. Do you think there is a hole in my reasoning for killing Clarity? Do you think this is fabricated evidence? Was it not new to the thread at the time I wrote it? Especially the part where I analyse his follow-up. You're right about this. I am not convinced however that the scum motivation isn't there. Clarity starts posting for hours before you return and call him scum. I could definitely see you, as the one mainly active (and arguably skilled) member of the scumteam coming back to the QT and going, WTF Clarity, you're dead and we're going to have to bus you for this. Your reasoning for killing him unfortunately very easily fits from both a town and scum perspective. Very easy to point out your scum-mates glaring mistakes. As for your extracting town-cred and blowing it on pushing VE, again that seems to me alignment-null on its own. Yes what are you saying could be true but it's also very easily true that you're trying to avoid completely flip-flopping on your read here to avoid looking scummier. Which to me since all you say is: "Still think VE is a good lynch" and then drop it amounts to the same thing as flip-flopping without a reason. More coming but I want to get some of this out just in case there is some chance in hell of me dying. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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as far as I understood the mason topic lasted 72 hours, and I think those were up. And yeah, you were at the time firmly in my scum/null group, but I wasn't really pursuing it at the time. I think I was pretty involved during the night you claimed miller, and if I recall correctly, I realized that your claim made sense and looked genuine. Now put yourself in scum-palmar's shoes. You basically have what equals to a guilty cop-check on your head and I could tunnel that until you die, hell I even gave you some shit for not being super-townie since you were a self-aware miller (though I do very much agree with your play of not claiming it at the start). But no, because I'm not actually scum, I just stepped back, looked at how you claimed and how you reacted to the pressure and decided you were town. I actually did the same thing yesterday, but yamato self-hammered in rage after quoting a post of mine where I was basically considering waffling on his lynch. What you say about my miller-claim rings true from a town-perspective. Much easier to call for my lynch and let me hang/get shot.Of course there's scum motivation for it too, though it's a bit of a stretch---if you knew or thought other people would lynch me then you could abstain and look towny. Especially since if there's one thing I'm good at in mafia it's not getting mislynched so my calling for a vig shot against myself (not knowing there are none), letting me get mislynched as per my reasoning might look wrose. This I wil admit is a little convoluted and unlikely but I figure I'd toss it out there anyway. It's the rest of this that bugs me; you say you did the same thing regarding yamato but in this case it's YOU putting on the pressure, not others, and though you say you were considering waffling, you didn't, and your vote helped lynch a towny whatever you might say. If you were so unsure why risk leaving him at L-1 and give him the chance to do what he did? (You probably weren't around at L-1 but my point stands: your vote was on him when you were unsure?) When I mention your buddying of VE based on your BC checks yes that is a case for you being town, but again you don't refute the scum motivation: yYou were wrong about VE, don't want to look scummy anymore and want to get another towny lynched under cover of another towny. The interaction between you and BC makes it extremely difficult for me to believe that you are both town. It's been argued 100 times that your claim makes absolutely zero sense and I don't think any explanation you've had for it thus far is good enough. It's one thing to be lazy, it's another thing to do something downright terrible. It doesn't make sense that you'd expect other people 'backing you' to do your work against BC for you when you had nothing to go on. Rayn is not good enough as far as 'thread sentiment' goes since he tunnels like crazy, often against wrong targets, no matter how towny he looked. Hell you could very well have been using this aspect of his personality to help push BC relentlessly without having to do it yourself, but that's just speculation. Again, thanks for making my case for me. Most importantly here is my belief that CC was town, I was almost certain that his claim was true, and I think I never had any scumvibes in the game for him, so to me I was pretty sure we'd either get a scumlynch or a lurkerlynch->scumlynch (which is what happened). Remember, scumpalmar would've KNOWN that shiaopi was scum, so your theory of multiple mislynches makes no sense if I'm scum. This and the example after it is probably the best example I can find of a strong point to your towniness and I'm not sure I can see scum PoV here that isn't REALLY stretching here. Can you explain a few outstanding details to me? Your conclusions from the conversation with BC? You said something about decisions being very one-sided and I'm not sure what that means. My question just earlier about yamato v me Your ignoring the agreed-upon check targets. If you don't check me tonight I have more reason to believe that you are scum. I'm not sure it was the wrong play to not lynch you earlier because 'mafia might off you; they don't want to risk you being insane and not paranoid.' It's easily possible you chose your 'check' targets very carefully so either could be true. Again, difficult for me to reach any hard conclusions with what I've written here but on the whole there is still much to your play that IS objectively scummy, whether you see it as such or not. For the record I also really don't like your dismissal of yamato; making sure to discredit everything he says as 'shitty logic,' at the same time as calling him scummy.This way even if you're proven wrong after the flip (as scum) you can still say 'well his logic was awful and therefore we can't listen to any of his reads.' I just keep finding more inconclusive shit I don't like about your play this game. If you were truly town why is there so goddamn much of it? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On May 09 2013 01:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: WoS, I was not interested in commenting on the thoughts at that time because I didn't want either Palmar or BC lynched yesterday. I also won't comment on it until night ends. I highly doubt anyone but the JK will die, but in case I randomly get shot, just sheep BM yo. He handsome~ Process of elimination real easy for mafia who didn't realize it much earlier. BM probably next mafia target. Anyway, Artanis I believe you promised some analysis. Palmar take your time. There's a lot that has gone into what I've written both in the past and now and I can see no reason why people (other than you two as well) should just ignore it as it will at least generate good discussion. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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On May 09 2013 04:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm working on it on my own way. Have you missed me inquiring onto Palmar? Nope. Do you agree that either BC or Palmar have to die today? | ||
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WaveofShadow
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A town Geript that isn't helping is scarcely a Geript at all. | ||
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Sigh. I know focus should not be put on him today but while I wait for Palmar and the rest of the thread to show up I figure I'll shit something out. | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Could just be a demotivated geript that was looking forward to being shadowed by marv only to get bullshit his way. It's worth looking into his filter though. You haven't been in serious risk of lynching yet. You probably will be today. The past is no guarantee of the future. I disagree with this and as such will reserve judgment for now. As per you not wanting to answer my question, note that in any game that Palmar/Ace/BC etc play in, it has become part of their metas (misuse of the word here but fk it baylife) to die early since as idenitifed strong players, the only reasons mafia would not have shot them is because they ARE mafia. For Ace it's likely he was shot by mafia but BC/Palmar are very curious this game. If Plmar has been telling the truth this whole game then leaving him up as juicy lynchbait because of his play was probably the correct play for mafia, especially since he has not shown himself to be much of a threat this game. BC is another story though, I would argue his play has been stronger, and he has taken credit for a few scum kills already. Again just spouting stuff while waiting so as not to stagnate discussion. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Claiming paranoid on a check on me is a safe play based on the fact that you assume my claim was real. (I was debating trying to force something if you claimed insane like saying I fakeclaimed miller but that would have unleashed a shitstorm that I was probably not capable of keeping up and would have gotten me lynched or something). You get red even IF I say I fakeclaimed miller. The fact that you didn't check anyone the night before is either because once again, lazy Palmar (find this SO hard to believe there are so many instances of this since you're supposed to be a good player) or as mafia you were afraid to check players who aren't basically confirmed one way or the other for fear you might be caught out somehow or remove suspicion on possible lynchbait. It's not strong evidence but it's a possibility that can't be ignored imo. Artanis I disagree with the Rayn thing: I still think he was shot to try and frame me (which always seems to fail. Learn from that, mafia, I DON'T get mislynched  ). | ||
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